S04.E06: For Richer Or Poorer

[PityFree]

I finally figured out why Tom is single despite being employed and relatively good looking: HE'S CHEAP! That extends to his need to protect his bus and 60k income with a postnuptial agreement. Maybe he has a lot of assets? IDK. Still cheap. It makes sense now that he said he thinks people who have nice things are materialistic. Lily - he was setting your expectations!! Do not expect him to pick up a check or buy you a surprise gift. He'll tell you that he thinks fresh flowers are "a waste since they die after a few days." Just wait until he starts to complain about how much toilet paper you use!** That "my money is my money and your money is your money" is going to be FOREVER! He's only OK with the place you are sharing because the show is paying for it. He's going to insist on moving back into the bus after the show ends and he will charge you rent. If you balk? He'll accuse you of being spoiled and materialistic. 

**Been there. Done that. This hit a nerve for me since being cheap is one of my deal breakers. I can smell a cheap man a mile away. Of course, I don't need a rich guy or someone who is obsessed with showing off his possessions. I just want someone who is ok spending money to be comfortable and enjoy himself while still being responsible. 

[Evil Queen]

15 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I get this, but those people KNOW you well.  They know that you're afraid of dogs.  Nick's dogs are the way they are because he's probably never had someone live with him whose afraid of dogs.

And THAT is an issue with this show.  I think this show is using marriage as therapy.  Now, I do believe that people come into our lives to help us work through our stuff, but that usually happens organically, not on a TV show. 

I still wonder if cultural differences will come into play with some of these couples. 

I don't know if cultural differences play into them or not but I can see how it could at times depending on situations. 

Agree this show should NOT be using it as a therapy for working issues out you may have. These "experts" had to have known Sonia had a fear of dogs. There is no way she didn't mention that. Its probably the top of her list of things she doesn't want in a mate. Yet these "experts" have proved season after season they do not listen to this stuff and will match them instead to "fix" each other's issues and nothing more. Even putting 2 new "experts" in didn't change how this show matches these people. SMH

[psychoticstate]

12 hours ago, AllisonWonderland said:

I'm sorry, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here--we all think HEATHER was hard done by in the session with Pastor Cal, and that DEREK wasn't being held responsible for his plans to make things better?! He straight up said "I am committed to this. I want to find a way to make this work." while she Icequeen'd out next to him. Unless they cut it out of the episode, Derek never got the chance to speak freely to the pastor, which is totally unfair from a therapy/counseling perspective. Each person's needs and concerns are as valid as his or her partner's, so for her to get the full attention of the meeting turned it into a "Let's all brainstorm a way to placate Heather for another few weeks!" powwow.

 

He's not perfect, he's not awesome, but Derek is completely right: she checked the eff out when she realized there was no chemistry, and it would save everyone a lot of time to let them cut their losses and run. It is completely irreparable at this point--I've been the one that has been checked out in a relationship and no amount of pastors or nights to sleep on it would have helped--and forcing them to "try" through the end of the 6 weeks is only going to result in miserable, offputting television. 

I'm right there with you, AllisonWonderland.  I think DEREK was the one who was exhausted, unless we count all the energy Heather expended putting and keeping those walls up.  Neither of them are perfect but the main problem I have had with Heather since right after the wedding was that she didn't appear to be trying.   Even if she wasn't sure about Derek, even if she was totally pissed off about the smoking, why not at least try to be his friend, get to know him and have a good time on the trip?  I just don't understand making it terrible not only for Derek but for herself.

I really like Pastor Cal and I understand him cutting right to the chase but I think Heather's "I can't answer that right now" is unacceptable.  Either you want to work at it or you don't.  I think PC should have pressed her.  I also think he should have asked her if there was anything she liked or respected about Derek.  It would have been nice to let Derek sit down without Heather and air his grievances as well, without Heather's eye rolling or commenting. 

That said, there is no way this is going to work.  She is so obviously checked out.  I felt for Derek.  Like him or not, he did appear to be upset about this turn of events and I thought he was sincere when he said he did this with the full intention of giving his all and making it work.  It must be incredibly frustrating to be matched with someone who on appearances alone seems to have the opposite opinion.

I also want to say that I think Heather's Tweet or whatever that I saw in another thread about her not thinking she would get chosen . . . I don't care.  That's not an excuse for anything.  She committed to doing this and she could have backed out before she went forward with the wedding.  It feels like backpedaling to me - - she wasn't matched with a person she thought she should be and she's trying to save face.  

Re Nick and Sonia - - I'm not ready to say that he's not attracted to her at all.  Remember, they've only known each other a week at this point.  I think the smart thing is to develop a friendship and learn about each other.

Hopefully that won't be the downfall for Lily and Tom.  I'm glad the bus thing was a nonstarter.  

Love all the doggies! 

[Gem 10]

I STRONGLY believe in "attraction" at first sight.  I don't think Heather was attracted to Derek at all, but she gave it a shot for one day.  Sonia was attracted to Nick and Lily was with what's his name.  They should have a show "Attracted at First Sight" and see what happens.

[Gem 10]

Continuing my previous post.  They would have to meet up first, then decide on the spot if they want to continue.

[Lola16]

3 hours ago, henrysmom said:

http://www.thewrap.com/9-married-at-first-sight-burning-questions/

For those asking about the show requiring prenups, this is an interview with one of the executive producers, where he states they do have everybody sign a prenup saying whatever you take to the marriage, you take out of it.  I can only assume this little story thread was added for drama.

Right. Does it cover though what you earn during the marriage? That could be what the post-nup would do.

1 hour ago, Jellybeans said:

Ha... I wondered if Heather and Derick tried to have sex and Derick umm, could not get it going, heh...that's my take. I really do not think HE is attracted to HER and it is bothering her big time.  It took me awhile to figure this theory out.

I do think Nick is attracted to Sonia but he moves very slow.  I am the same way.  I move slow...and that was a deal breaker for many in the past. It works for me and probably does for Nick. I like Sonia a lot, she is different from your run of the mill female.  

I like Lilly.  Not sure about Tom.  But then again, he is not really acting much different than she is so...and yeah, dirty feet?  As long as her dog pees and poops outside we are good to go.

Derek is attracted to Heather physically and he's pissed off like a teenaged boy that she won't put out. If he couldn't get it up or maintain an erection, that's on him.  Not her.  If your 'theory' happened, then Heather is a better person than Derek because if the roles were reversed, Derek would be blabbing about Heather's failings.  We don't hear Heather doing that.

I do think there was some initial attraction on Heather's part but then something turned her off. The weed smoking was part of it. How Derek acts like a Jr. High Schooler in arguments, is probably another part.  But I do agree with other posters, that there's something we haven't seen. 

Of course, Heather could just blurt it out and perhaps she should.  She reminds me more of Neal from last season.

Do tell --- what is a 'run of the mill female'?  Heather?  Lilly?

[Vinyasa]

Quote

 I don't think Heather was attracted to Derek at all, but she gave it a shot for one day.

She was somewhat attracted to him! They were fine at the wedding/reception and brunch the day after.  She definitely didn't have the Jamie/Jaclyn reaction and was much nicer than Ashley was.

She even said she liked being called Mr and Mrs Schwartz when they checked into the hotel. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Vinyasa

[Neurochick]

I think anybody who thinks they're going to find true love on this show is sorely mistaken.  This is a TV show first a foremost, a show and shows are all about ratings and money; and maybe some people really want to see true love, but I would not be a bit surprised if most people tuned into this show for a trainwreck. 

[Nowhere]

14 minutes ago, Lola16 said:

Right. Does it cover though what you earn during the marriage? That could be what the post-nup would do.

Derek is attracted to Heather physically and he's pissed off like a teenaged boy that she won't put out. If he couldn't get it up or maintain an erection, that's on him.  Not her.  If your 'theory' happened, then Heather is a better person than Derek because if the roles were reversed, Derek would be blabbing about Heather's failings.  We don't hear Heather doing that.

I do think there was some initial attraction on Heather's part but then something turned her off. The weed smoking was part of it. How Derek acts like a Jr. High Schooler in arguments, is probably another part.  But I do agree with other posters, that there's something we haven't seen. 

Of course, Heather could just blurt it out and perhaps she should.  She reminds me more of Neal from last season.

Do tell --- what is a 'run of the mill female'?  Heather?  Lilly?

I'm also wondering what a 'run of the mill female' is. Is that like a basic bitch?

Derek was definitely attracted to Heather. He said it at the wedding for sure. I think she was attracted to him at first. She kissed him at the altar even though she said she wouldn't before the ceremony. I don't think she wanted to have sex the first night though. She was saying they were both very tired. 

If they tried though and he couldn't get it up, I don't think that would be enough for her to be completely turned off by him and give up on the marriage completely. 

Y'all, maybe he smells like ass or has terrible breath. I don't care how good looking a guy is, if he doesn't have good hygiene, I won't touch him. Some people just stink. I'm not saying that's the problem with Derek. I'm just saying that there could be a thousand things that are deal breakers that Heather may not want to admit to on camera. Saying, "Derek smells like tuna fish", for example, may seem a little too mean even for Heather. I know there are some things I wouldn't want to tell somebody for fear of hurting feelings and getting serious backlash from fans saying how dare she call him out on tv. There could be a number of reasons why we don't know the problem and may never know.

[okerry]

51 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Continuing my previous post.  They would have to meet up first, then decide on the spot if they want to continue.

That's pretty much what *Love at First Kiss* does. It's on tonight on TLC, if you're interested, and if you like MAFS you may like this one.

[Jellybeans]

I think Derick is not attracted to Heather in the WOWZIE sense.  It was something I kinda thought at first but I ignored it and frankly I do not want to rewatch earlier episodes to see why I felt this. I did not mention it nor did I run with my hunch so...

I think he was kinda attracted at first.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Jellybeans
added last line

[Gem 10]

OKerry .. Thanks for the info.  I will watch "Love at First Kiss" tonight.

[Magoo]

14 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

Saying, "Derek smells like tuna fish", for example, may seem a little too mean even for Heather.

This made me laugh right out loud.  Picturing Heather saying this in her monotone voice, arms crossed, wearing her glasses of judgement.  Tuna fish.  Hee!  I'm 12.

[psychoticstate]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

 I don't think Heather was attracted to Derek at all, but she gave it a shot for one day.

A whole day?  Wow, Heather really gave it her all, didn't she?  I don't mean this toward you, Gem, but what does she expect if she only tries for a day?  Come on.  Maybe she wasn't super attracted to him but you can't possibly get to know someone within a day and especially someone you committed to on this show.  

She is very much like Ashley from last season.  She has a type and she just won't go outside of whatever her comfort zone is.  There's a reason that maybe those relationships haven't worked but she's not willing to trust in the experts and give it a shot.  (Not saying that I would trust in these experts either but she signed up.)  

As far as whether or not these two tried to make their acquaintance physical?  I'm not seeing that.  At all. Heather was too aloof from right after the wedding.  No way. 

[Vinyasa]

Bottom line, Heather signed up for this marriage and said " I Do" at the alter. No one forced her.

I do think she was genuine in the conversation with Pastor Calvin but he kept acting like they weren't married at first sight. Yes, he deals with married couples but these are the first "married at first sight"  ones that he had this "emergency meeting".

He should have talked with each of them alone first and then together.

Other than that, did anyone notice all the marks down Heather's right leg in this meeting? Maybe they were insect bites but she should have worn pants!

Edited August 31, 2016 by Vinyasa

[Cherrio]

I don't consider the experts in any way a real expert. They are game show hosts.   A real expert wouldn't have any part of this imo.

A real pastor would counsel against rushing into a marriage, let alone marrying a stranger.

He is just another dufus wanting to be a Z list celeb.

[Enero]

31 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

A whole day?  Wow, Heather really gave it her all, didn't she?  I don't mean this toward you, Gem, but what does she expect if she only tries for a day?  Come on.  Maybe she wasn't super attracted to him but you can't possibly get to know someone within a day and especially someone you committed to on this show.  

I honestly think something happened to turned her completely off of him. I don't think it was sex as others have speculated. Great theory though. Derek stated that they didn't cuddle on their wedding night. So I can't imagine them going from not cuddling at all to full on sex the next day.

Quote

 

I don't consider the experts in any way a real expert. They are game show hosts.   A real expert wouldn't have any part of this imo.

A real pastor would counsel against rushing into a marriage, let alone marrying a stranger.

He is just another dufus wanting to be a Z list celeb.

 

I do like Pastor C. But I have to agree, no real pastor would be so callous about marriage. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Enero

[Gem 10]

31 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

39 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

A whole day?  Wow, Heather really gave it her all, didn't she?  I don't mean this toward you, Gem, but what does she expect if she only tries for a day?  Come on.  Maybe she wasn't super attracted to him but you can't possibly get to know someone within a day and especially someone you committed to on this show.  

She is very much like Ashley from last season.  She has a type and she just won't go outside of whatever her comfort zone is.  There's a reason that maybe those relationships haven't worked but she's not willing to trust in the experts and give it a shot.  (Not saying that I would trust in these experts either but she signed up.)  

As far as whether or not these two tried to make their acquaintance physical?  I'm not seeing that.  At all. Heather was too aloof from right after the wedding.  No way. 

     If he was smoking pot on day two, I don't think she would want to get to know him anymore.  Seems like that's a very big issue with her.

[stuckin60s]

My thoughts

1.  If Heather was opposed to smoking, why did she give Derek "a smoking gift" for a wedding present.

2. Heather looked like trash in her wedding dress, anyone who calls themselves classy, is not

3. Nick has said that he thinks Sonja is terrific, just wants to go slow.  I think that is correct.  He also put the dogs outside for the night

4 Lilly and Tom pecking after every sentence is weird to me.  It is not newlywed passion, they would be doing more than just a peck.  To me seems like it is producer driven

5 The "Jamie" show, were these filmed as the participants watched the episode?  They are all wearing the same clothes each week

6 maybe it is not about how much money they will be paid, maybe if they break the contract they have to payback for the wedding or honeymoons 

Edited August 31, 2016 by stuckin60s

[Neurochick]

15 minutes ago, Cherrio said:

I don't consider the experts in any way a real expert. They are game show hosts.   A real expert wouldn't have any part of this imo.

A real pastor would counsel against rushing into a marriage, let alone marrying a stranger.

He is just another dufus wanting to be a Z list celeb.

Well, the whole concept of the show is strange when you think about it.  Most counselors wouldn't agree with this because you are starting with commitment; to commit to someone you don't know.  But then again, these people signed up for this show, they didn't have to, no one made them, I can't feel too sorry for them.

[cardigirl]

29 minutes ago, Cherrio said:

I don't consider the experts in any way a real expert. They are game show hosts.   A real expert wouldn't have any part of this imo.

A real pastor would counsel against rushing into a marriage, let alone marrying a stranger.

He is just another dufus wanting to be a Z list celeb.

I like the experts, and think the premise for the show could be interesting, but it is done for entertainment and ratings.  Otherwise, they would give the couples months to figure out if this could work.  6 weeks is not enough time, for a serious 'experiment,'  but I don't think people would watch for much longer than 10-12 episodes. 

[jamblastx]

The difference from last year's unhappily ever afters and this year's is not between Ashley and Heather, but rather David and Derek.  Both of the women shut down early (and I think Ashley did earlier than Heather) and both men have had to deal with the rejection but it is HOW they dealt with it.  David was always kind and patient and tried to put on a brave face and push through.  He didn't lose it until way afterwards well after they got back from the honeymoon.  Derek was patient for about as long as he is claiming Heather gave him a shot, and then lashed out viciously.

in the end, Derek and Heather could have handled this MUCH better and I cannot understand for the life of me why the 'emergency intervention' needed to be the day they travelled and got back rather than the next day.  They were not going to spend the night together anyway....just like the other two 'happy' couples...so would it not have made a LOT more sense to decompress one evening and settle down before having Pastor Shouty do his thing? 

I agree that there is a LOT that we are probably not seeing and I am sure Heather told the production staff that she was done and was not going to go further so they employed the Pastor to either bully her to continue her 'commitment' or think it over so that they could drag it out a few more episodes.  I think that next week, we will not see much of the two of them just like this week because there is very little content and the 'decision' will be at the end of the show only to be revealed the week after next. 

[psychoticstate]

14 minutes ago, stuckin60s said:

My thoughts

1.  If Heather was opposed to smoking, why did she give Derek "a smoking gift" for a wedding present.

2. Heather looked like trash in her wedding dress, anyone who calls themselves classy, is not

3. Nick has said that he thinks Sonja is terrific, just wants to go slow.  I think that is correct.  He also put the dogs outside for the night

4 Lilly and Tom pecking after every sentence is weird to me.  It is not newlywed passion, they would be doing more than just a peck.  To me seems like it is producer driven

5 The "Jamie" show, were these filmed as the participants watched the episode?  They are all wearing the same clothes each week

6 maybe it is not about how much money they will be paid, maybe if they break the contract they have to payback for the wedding or honeymoons 

Didn't Derek say or wasn't it said here that once Heather made it known that she did not like the smoking, he stopped?  I can see it being a problem if the smoking was daily, she was against it and he wasn't going to quit.  But if he truly did only smoke occasionally and he stopped as soon as he saw how it upset her, she really didn't have an argument there.  And again, why not put that aside - - if he stopped - - and enjoy the trip?  There is either something else or Heather glommed on to the smoking as an excuse.

I've said this before but I have to wonder what questions are being asked.  Obviously they ask about smoking but do they also ask about drinking and about drug use?  If they don't, they should.  And if they do, they clearly need to specify what "occasional" means.

As far as her dress goes, halter style wedding dresses can be very lovely.  Hers was just not fitted to her body properly.  The bodice was too low and revealing and showing too much cleavage IMO and the waistline didn't sit properly.  Makes me wonder if she just didn't care about getting it properly fitted.  That dress appeared to be the first she tried on; I know from my own dress that most shops could make simple alterations within a week or so.  Certainly for MAFS and the free publicity they'd get it done.  Sonia's dress fit.  Lily's dress fit.

[Passthepopcorn]

I have hopes for Lily and Tom. When you get along, everything else comes into place. He wasn't at all stubborn about the bus. 

I have hopes for Sonia and Nick. But Nick needs to make a move ASAP. I like going slow, I love that they want to make it meaningful. But when you are so close (same house, same bed) and nothing at all... I don't blame her for being antsie about it. I loved that even though the dogs are an issue, it didn't deter her from moving in together one bit. And he put them outside when they ate, to create space for her.

The other two. One open, one closed. Still, and more and more, hard to watch, especially Heather. No hope. So many issues. "This is not the kind of marriage I want" Huh? 8 days with someone and you know "this marriage". I don't think that is enough time to get to know him. And if she is so dead sure, why is she lingering... The stuff she said about him acting childish (cave, flirting) was after she checked out on day 2, so it sounded like an excuse. Still no real answer. Is it something she can't say on camera? What was so terrible?

With the other two couples I found myself smiling, remembering those first days when you start a new life. Both couples were open to find a middle ground and try.

I loved Nick and Sonia's place.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Passthepopcorn

[psychoticstate]

9 minutes ago, jamblastx said:

The difference from last year's unhappily ever afters and this year's is not between Ashley and Heather, but rather David and Derek.  Both of the women shut down early (and I think Ashley did earlier than Heather)

It seems like though Ashley at least made it appear that she gave an effort on the honeymoon, even if she said she wasn't attracted to David.  I think it was only after they got back and moved in together that she got really icy.   Heck, even Jamie, who said she wasn't attracted to Doug at all, was game and had fun on her honeymoon.  If Derek was that bad and Heather was that disgusted by his smoking (cigs, weed, crack, whatever) why didn't she insist on getting her own room?  If I had been that put off by someone, I wouldn't even want to stay in the same room with them.

 

3 minutes ago, Passthepopcorn said:

especially Heather. No hope. So many issues. "This is not the kind of marriage I want" 

PC should have asked her what kind of marriage she wanted.  Does she even know?  Does she have a realistic expectation to begin with?

[Passthepopcorn]

17 hours ago, Buggaboo35 said:

Heather is a bitch.  Yes, Derek was/is needy and mistaken about her flirting with the surfer dude.  But it was ALL about Heather in the session with the therapist.  It was all about how she's exhausted, she's worn out, she's upset.  He's as frustrated as she is, why no asking him what his issues are?

The main issue that comes to mind is that he has to work with someone who detest him. You can't make the other person like you and if they don't like you what do you do? He said he is willing to change whatever bothers her and work on things, but if the other part doesn't know what to do about it and have no answer, then they are stalled. 

[Passthepopcorn]

4 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

PC should have asked her what kind of marriage she wanted.  Does she even know?  Does she have a realistic expectation to begin with?

I wonder if she has ever been in a long term relationship. She immediately wanted to retreat, go home, be in her world, by herself. And I know that can happen to anyone (married or not), to recharge. But I wonder if it was too much for her to just be with someone who is not just a date, but someone who in theory is here to stay.

[Snewtsie]

I am no fan of Heather, but I wished Derek would have stopped flying off the handle like he did in the counseling session.  These two people are polar opposites when under stress ...Heather becomes robotic, showing no emotion whatsoever.  Derek becomes reactive, letting his temper take over.  I think the editors focused on showing Heather more because Pastor Calvin's frustration with her mirrored Derek's frustration.  You can't argue, debate, or reason with a tree stump (yes, Heather is the tree stump).  I get that she needed sleep - fair enough - but SAY SOMETHING to reveal what she thinks the issues are.  Smoking? Snoring? Smelly feet?  Comic strip tattoos?  Her silence is the issue.  I think that's why Pastor Calvin wasn't letting her off the hook- she wasn't articulating anything at all.  It would have been a great opportunity for Derek to keep calm and let her look like the bigger asshole.

[jmonkey]

Tom and Lilly: As predicted by me and many in this forum, the bus was a non-issue. Shoot, Lilly probably just spent 10 minutes there-just enough time to complain about the bed and the shower on camera. They got a place together so fast that it's not like she had to live there. Besides Tom is pulling $60-$70 K a year as a yacht detailer, so it's not like he had to live in a bus down by the river. He chose to and that's acceptable. Because Lilly requested a financially secure guy in the application process, I think she would've been upset if Tom was poor. It turns out he's not poor. He's just a cheap bastard like I am. I thought Tom asking for a "post-nup" was one of the most sensible things I've ever seen on this often nonsensical show. It didn't surprise me because minimalists, by nature, always have their mind on their money and frugality. I don't think Lilly sees this as a red flag (and she shouldn't) because getting a "post-nup" means Tom has actual assets he wants to protect. He wants to make sure that Lilly doesn't get his plush bus. This is way better than the alternative of Tom trying to live off Lilly's realtor earnings and that should be comforting to her should things go awry down the road. And they will eventually. However, I think these two will make it long enough for the experts to pat themselves on the back. They'll probably stay married a month or 2 after the season ends. Good on Lilly for making Tom wash his nasty feet. Put some shoes on, Nature Boy!

Nick and Sonia: I'm a guy, and I think Sonia is muy caliente and a sweetheart. I get so frustrated watching Nick and Sonia. Sonia's clock is ticking and she couldn't be any more hot to trot while Nick is more interested in making out with his dogs (so gross!). I yell at my screen, "What's wrong you? BANG HER!" to Nick like 20 times an episode. I would've consummated the crap out of that marriage already if I was him. I thought, at first, maybe he's just shy and it takes him a while to warm up, but now I believe he's just not that into her. I really don't understand why, and I also don't get why the experts matched these two. Sonia wanted a manly man and is terrified of dogs, so, of course, they pair her with meterosexual Nick who has two dogs. WTF? I am also scared of dogs and anytime I'm around them I get a "flight-or-fight" feeling inside my body. That's no way to live, and I can't believe the experts disregarded her fear of dogs when matching them. That's not cool. It would be a dealbreaker for me, and it seems like it's an issue for Sonia too. Why didn't the experts pick someone who loves dogs for Nick instead? It seems like the experts have put unnecessary obstacles in the way of couples for television purposes and that just sucks. This isn't just opposites attract, different personality type of stuff that the experts seemed to be going for with this pairing. The dog issue is a lifestyle choice like the smoking issue Derek and Heather are dealing with. It's not negotiable and not something a person should be expected to work on and get past. Sonia has been a good sport, and I think she's one of those people who could get along with anybody. She seems to be more interested in making this marriage work than Nick is. Unfortunately Nick is one of those dog owners who thinks that everyone will love his dogs. I think he could've been a little more sensitive towards Sonia's fear instead of letting the dogs jump her when she walked through the door. I think Nick is kind of self-absorbed and inconsiderate, but he gets away with it because he's shy. I still think they'll consummate, but there's no way these two will stay together.

Derek and Heather: I really hope these two quit the show because they both really annoy me. However, I'm pretty sure they'll stick it out for their fifteen minutes of fame. There's probably a financial incentive for staying the whole 6 weeks even if this relationship is irreparable. Who knows? Maybe they could be friends if they just agree to not pursue this marriage. Obviously this marriage is over. If a couple spends most of their honeymoon fighting, that's a pretty good sign that it is a bad match. I like Pastor Calvin, but I was getting mad at him telling Heather that she has to put the work in. I'm thinking why bother if they've already determined that they're not right for each other. I know this is an experiment and the couples are supposed to be good soldiers and do whatever it takes to save the marriage. I just wish there was more accountability on the expert's part to better match the couples so that they don't have to extend themselves so much. That's where the extreme exhaustion has come in for Derek and Heather. It seemed like Pastor Calvin was kind of shaming Heather for not putting the work in. I can't say that I blame her considering what a bitch baby Derek was the entire honeymoon. In real life, Derek and Heather would go on a date and find out they're incompatible and go on with their lives. On this show, they're forced and/or coerced into trying to make something work that shouldn't exist in the first place. I agree that marriage takes hard work, but that's assuming that you like and respect the person you're married to. Heather and Derek don't like each other, so they don't deem each other as worthy enough to put in the time and effort. Doing so is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. This coupling was a epic failure by the experts, and I look forward to hearing them try to polish this turd.

Edited August 31, 2016 by jmonkey

[Lola16]

25 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Didn't Derek say or wasn't it said here that once Heather made it known that she did not like the smoking, he stopped?  I can see it being a problem if the smoking was daily, she was against it and he wasn't going to quit.  But if he truly did only smoke occasionally and he stopped as soon as he saw how it upset her, she really didn't have an argument there.  And again, why not put that aside - - if he stopped - - and enjoy the trip?  There is either something else or Heather glommed on to the smoking as an excuse.

I've said this before but I have to wonder what questions are being asked.  Obviously they ask about smoking but do they also ask about drinking and about drug use?  If they don't, they should.  And if they do, they clearly need to specify what "occasional" means.

As far as her dress goes, halter style wedding dresses can be very lovely.  Hers was just not fitted to her body properly.  The bodice was too low and revealing and showing too much cleavage IMO and the waistline didn't sit properly.  Makes me wonder if she just didn't care about getting it properly fitted.  That dress appeared to be the first she tried on; I know from my own dress that most shops could make simple alterations within a week or so.  Certainly for MAFS and the free publicity they'd get it done.  Sonia's dress fit.  Lily's dress fit.

Derek said when he got the gift of cigars that he didn't smoke. (I guess he meant cigars.)  I don't think the gift of cigars is a weird choice from a nonsmoker; it's not unusual to celebrate a marriage or baby with a cigar when you don't smoke.  There's even a cigar bar option available at some wedding venues.  So I think Heather is open to occasional smoking when it's social smoking -- and smoking of legal substances.  I see it as Derek asks if he can smoke, Heather says yes, then it's a daily ritual of smoking pot when he wakes each morning?  I can see where Heather would not be thrilled.  Maybe 2-3 days of it goes by before she says anything about it.  Later Derek claims in a talking head that he stopped.  Well he looked high as f*** during the cave talking head so when did he stop?

Agree about the questionnaires.  I had to fill one out (not for this show) and it specified what occasional/social smoking, drinking, drug use was.  And it asked you to list what substances you used.

ITA about the dresses.  I think Heather wanted to look glam but the dress fit poorly.  I don't think Sonia's dress fit well; she's quite busty but the top was baggy.

11 minutes ago, Passthepopcorn said:

I wonder if she has ever been in a long term relationship. She immediately wanted to retreat, go home, be in her world, by herself. And I know that can happen to anyone (married or not), to recharge. But I wonder if it was too much for her to just be with someone who is not just a date, but someone who in theory is here to stay.

Living with someone is very different than occasional sleep-overs.  If she's used to living by herself, I can see where this would be a shock to her system.  And I think they could have allowed them a day/night apart to regroup.  If Derek is constantly yapping/sniping, that would be hard to tune out when you're used to silence.  

I don't agree with PC/Pastor Shouty (I like that) that when you are married, you don't get alone time.  They said that to Tres & Vanessa last season.  Yes, typically, as a married couple you are together but maybe one travels for business or works out of state etc.  And there's such a thing as trial separations.  When married couples fight -- there aren't only 2 options of staying together or divorcing --- they can separate and work on their relationship apart.  Ideally, yes, they'd stay together and work on it from there but that's not always the best option.

Heather's and Derek's relationship is toxic.  Why, we may not find out.  But I do think it's in Heather's best interests to go home by herself and regroup.

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

As far as whether or not these two tried to make their acquaintance physical?  I'm not seeing that.  At all. Heather was too aloof from right after the wedding.  No way. 

Heather looks shell shocked to me. Not sullen.  Not pouty.  Not aloof.  But shell shocked as in "what the hell did I get myself into?!".

Derek to me looks like he has mood swings -- he's funny, charming, easy going and then he lashes out, is angry, loud, insulting and then he's calm because he's over it or he is sulking because he's not getting attention/reaction. 

Heather is more measured, more even keel, and yes highly critical and judgy.  I think she's confronted with a situation that's really new to her and while she thinks she knows everything (she's so black and white, very regimented), she is at a loss at what to do here so she shuts down.

[watch2much]

I also agree that maybe something else happened that shut Heather down so much.  Maybe Derek tried to get too amorous and didn't take no too well.  Then she thought things were going better at the surf lesson and the cave, and then boom, he unloads on her.  He attacks her viciously and personally, but then adds he was "all in" on this marriage.  I think he should abusive traits and maybe she's had past relationships like that and she knows they are not healthy for her.  She's struggling with her giving a commitment but knowing it's never going to work.  She said in the session with PC that she "told you I didn't want to do this now" but they forced. her.  If someone says they are at an emotional tipping point and exhausted, what they did to her was cruel.  And next to her is the 35 year old teen who not only wears his hat backward all the time but with the brim tipped up in back and creepy, stupid tattoos all over him, constantly criticizing her.  I think she was withdrawing into herself as a means of protection and just wanted to be allowed to go home and get some rest so she could think better.  I admit she comes off cold but there has to be more to it than we were shown.  

btw, I live in Florida and if I wear sandals during the day, I always wash my feet before bed because the thought of dirty feet on sheets bothers me as well--and they are never as dirty as Tom's.  Lilly was right to have him wash.

I like Sonia, but her manner of speaking drives me crazy sometimes.  Though I suspect her insecurities are showing thru.  He shows her nothing.

[Pfj99]

I just rewatched the Unfiltered program, and Lilly talked about the fact that she has minimal debt and Tom has A LOT (her emphasis).  Assuming this is true, I don't buy that he's really a minimalist.  Wouldn't minimalism suggest living within one's means?  Maybe he's had catastrophic medical expenses or been unemployed at times despite his best efforts.  But maybe he'd just rather spend more time surfing than looking for work or actually working.

[henrysmom]

Quote

she has minimal debt and Tom has A LOT (her emphasis)

What on earth could he possibly have spent money on?  It sure as heck wasn't that bus. 

[zxy556575]

2 hours ago, Magoo said:

This made me laugh right out loud. Picturing Heather saying this in her monotone voice, arms crossed, wearing her glasses of judgement.

Glasses of judgment! So true. I'm especially tickled at that coming from someone with your user name.

I'm unfashionable but are huge tortoise shell frames a thing now? I kept looking at them and thinking, "Really? (with Seth and Amy).

[cardigirl]

4 minutes ago, lordonia said:

Glasses of judgment! So true. I'm especially tickled at that coming from someone with your user name.

I'm unfashionable but are huge tortoise shell frames a thing now? I kept looking at them and thinking, "Really? (with Seth and Amy).

Yes, big over-sized glasses are in, at the moment.

[stuckin60s]

as far as heather goes, she wouldn't ride her bike near him, even when he asked her about it. She left the cave without telling him.  She walked ahead of him. Even if you are in a group of people and you don't like some of them, you do not ignore them and walk off by yourself. 

She obviously doesn't do anything she doesn't want to.  I am not a fan of Derek's looks.  She gets uglier each episode

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

A whole day?  Wow, Heather really gave it her all, didn't she?  I don't mean this toward you, Gem, but what does she expect if she only tries for a day?  Come on.  Maybe she wasn't super attracted to him but you can't possibly get to know someone within a day and especially someone you committed to on this show.  

She is very much like Ashley from last season.  She has a type and she just won't go outside of whatever her comfort zone is.  There's a reason that maybe those relationships haven't worked but she's not willing to trust in the experts and give it a shot.  (Not saying that I would trust in these experts either but she signed up.)  

 

We have no clue if she has a type really. Ashley, we knew she did because she stated it and claimed she wanted different. I don't see that Heather is at all like Ashley. Ashley was not there from the get go and will never get why they picked her. Yet with Heather and Derek something happened in a short amount of time to make her see him different. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a combo of things but we are not clued in for some reason to what is going on. Sometimes there are things a person can do that will reveal so much about who they are in a short time frame to make you want to turn around and run. While others might slowly do so. 

1 hour ago, Cherrio said:

I don't consider the experts in any way a real expert. They are game show hosts.   A real expert wouldn't have any part of this imo.

A real pastor would counsel against rushing into a marriage, let alone marrying a stranger.

He is just another dufus wanting to be a Z list celeb.

Exactly!!! This guy has been on another reality show and now this one. The way he "counsels" would have been shutting down. Let alone I'd be in tears having him yell at me like that. Its not the kind of approach someone that is suppose to counsel married couples should be taking EVER! And in the end not one of these new ones or the old ones has shown to be an "expert" at anything IMO. 

1 hour ago, stuckin60s said:

My thoughts

1.  If Heather was opposed to smoking, why did she give Derek "a smoking gift" for a wedding present.

3. Nick has said that he thinks Sonja is terrific, just wants to go slow.  I think that is correct.  He also put the dogs outside for the night

 

First, I think it was given because its just still one of those kinds of gifts many will give during weddings or after a baby is born. She said she didn't mind the occasional smoker which was probably meaning social type of smoker. Not the once a day or more type. And certainly not the pot smoking type. 

I kind of doubt Nick had the dogs outside all night. They would have barked up a storm and annoyed neighbors. He could have kept a bedroom door closed and them inside the house though. Or she could have left and slept in her own place. We will never really know though. LOL

8 minutes ago, Lola16 said:

Derek said when he got the gift of cigars that he didn't smoke. (I guess he meant cigars.)  I don't think the gift of cigars is a weird choice from a nonsmoker; it's not unusual to celebrate a marriage or baby with a cigar when you don't smoke.  There's even a cigar bar option available at some wedding venues.  So I think Heather is open to occasional smoking when it's social smoking -- and smoking of legal substances.  I see it as Derek asks if he can smoke, Heather says yes, then it's a daily ritual of smoking pot when he wakes each morning?  I can see where Heather would not be thrilled.  Maybe 2-3 days of it goes by before she says anything about it.  Later Derek claims in a talking head that he stopped.  Well he looked high as f*** during the cave talking head so when did he stop?

I don't agree with PC/Pastor Shouty (I like that) that when you are married, you don't get alone time.  They said that to Tres & Vanessa last season.  Yes, typically, as a married couple you are together but maybe one travels for business or works out of state etc.  And there's such a thing as trial separations.  When married couples fight -- there aren't only 2 options of staying together or divorcing --- they can separate and work on their relationship apart.  Ideally, yes, they'd stay together and work on it from there but that's not always the best option.

Heather's and Derek's relationship is toxic.  Why, we may not find out.  But I do think it's in Heather's best interests to go home by herself and regroup.

Heather looks shell shocked to me. Not sullen.  Not pouty.  Not aloof.  But shell shocked as in "what the hell did I get myself into?!".

Derek to me looks like he has mood swings -- he's funny, charming, easy going and then he lashes out, is angry, loud, insulting and then he's calm because he's over it or he is sulking because he's not getting attention/reaction. 

 

He totally looked high as heck in those shots. Its why I have said that he can say one thing about it but when you see him looking high its not saying he stopped anything. I still think there is more to it besides this being an issue. Even though I don't blame her for it being one. 

I agree with whoever said it that the Pastor Shouty is coming off as a bully. And hate to tell him but married couples do get to have alone time. I've got a 15 yr marriage that will tell you otherwise. We have things we have done without each other and things we do with each other. There is nothing wrong with married couples having some alone time though. Especially if there is a problem going on and you need that breathing space for a short time. Doesn't mean you left the house even but just are in different places of it alone or go for a walk/drive.  Heck not everyone has the same things in common so there are things you will do away from your spouse. I can't stand this guy and his crappy advice he is trying to dish out and throw at Heather about her trying either or treating them like a long time married couple. Find out WTF happened before bullying her into keeping this crap going. 

1 minute ago, stuckin60s said:

as far as heather goes, she wouldn't ride her bike near him, even when he asked her about it. She left the cave without telling him.  She walked ahead of him. Even if you are in a group of people and you don't like some of them, you do not ignore them and walk off by yourself. 

She obviously doesn't do anything she doesn't want to.  I am not a fan of Derek's looks.  She gets uglier each episode

We have no idea with the cave how that was. I have walked ahead of my husband before and thought he was right behind me only to turn around and he was still back wherever (he has done this to me too). They showed her looking back when on the ladder but I am sure didn't want to yell in there something like "oh I thought you were behind me. Are you coming?" The editing is so badly done in this show. Then they have whoever saying one thing and we have no clue if that is what went done or not since we don't see all of the footage at the time. The bike ride ahead, maybe he just smoked and smelled. We have no clue why that happened either. Heck in both situations he could have said something rude to her before those things happened. We have no idea. 

BTW, at this point in my life I wouldn't be bothering with going out with a group of people that had some in it that I didn't like. If I was by chance stuck in a situation like that I sure wouldn't be near those people. I wouldn't be rude about it but I wouldn't be trying to mix it up with them either. Heck even my 14 yr old won't go hang out with a friend of his if he has this one kid around with him because he doesn't like the kid. He isn't rude about it either and told his friend why but once in awhile they show up at our door together. 

[magemaud]

So Lillian is a self-professed clean freak who requires Tom wash his feet before he gets into bed yet she thinks it's okay to take her dog with her house hunting and put him on people's carpets and furniture? 

[krbr51]

49 minutes ago, henrysmom said:

What on earth could he possibly have spent money on?  It sure as heck wasn't that bus. 

I am so glad someone else noticed that too!  He makes 60K, lives on a bus and has A LOT of debt???  WTF?  For me that's a total red flag.  Maybe it's for his business?   

[Lola16]

1 minute ago, krbr51 said:

I am so glad someone else noticed that too!  He makes 60K, lives on a bus and has A LOT of debt???  WTF?  For me that's a total red flag.  Maybe it's for his business?   

Didn't he say that "last" year he made 60K?  Not as in that he makes that much every year.  Which really isn't that much.  He had to buy the bus, update it (that had to cost at least $20), pay trailer park rental fees, other bills, surfing stuff, going out, etc. Does he have a car? Does he ride a bike? Uber? Doubt he drives his bus all over though he did say he takes it out for road trips.

[Jack Sampson]

1 hour ago, Passthepopcorn said:

I wonder if she has ever been in a long term relationship. She immediately wanted to retreat, go home, be in her world, by herself. And I know that can happen to anyone (married or not), to recharge. But I wonder if it was too much for her to just be with someone who is not just a date, but someone who in theory is here to stay.

Does a barely remembered, booze filled one night stand count?

I wonder if they should include an expert with some experience in arranged marriages.  And have them pre-rate (1-10) the potential matches beforehand like the AU version does.  

Is it too early for this year's ratings?  Ladies, how would you rate the men?  1-10 for face, body and personality.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Jack Sampson

[Gem 10]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

A whole day?  Wow, Heather really gave it her all, didn't she?  I don't mean this toward you, Gem, but what does she expect if she only tries for a day?  Come on.  Maybe she wasn't super attracted to him but you can't possibly get to know someone within a day and especially someone you committed to on this show.  

She is very much like Ashley from last season.  She has a type and she just won't go outside of whatever her comfort zone is.  There's a reason that maybe those relationships haven't worked but she's not willing to trust in the experts and give it a shot.  (Not saying that I would trust in these experts either but she signed up.)  

As far as whether or not these two tried to make their acquaintance physical?  I'm not seeing that.  At all. Heather was too aloof from right after the wedding.  No way. 

Hey Jack Sampson .. Now I get it!  Like someone posted before but I can't remember who as my brains and eyeballs are falling out from reading, Tom might have noticed that Lily might have the tendency to gain some weight down the road.  And I'm not yelling .. I respect all opinions.

[Jack Sampson]

3 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Hey Jack Sampson .. Now I get it!  Like someone posted before but I can't remember who as my brains and eyeballs are falling out from reading, Tom might have noticed that Lily might have the tendency to gain some weight down the road.  And I'm not yelling .. I respect all opinions.

She's already got an extra 5 pounds in her neck. :)

[Rover]

In the end, those with large personal debts on this show will fail.   Sonia & Nick, for starters.   He strikes me as conservative that way.   But the others, also.  Don't see them financially compatible nor genuinely that much into each other.  Tom and Lilly seem like a couple on an extended one-night stand and Heather and Derek are just flat out like water and oil - no way.   I was hoping for more this season - at least a few weeks more of possible longer-term connections.    

[psychoticstate]

1 hour ago, Lola16 said:

Heather looks shell shocked to me. Not sullen.  Not pouty.  Not aloof.  But shell shocked as in "what the hell did I get myself into?!".

Derek to me looks like he has mood swings -- he's funny, charming, easy going and then he lashes out, is angry, loud, insulting and then he's calm because he's over it or he is sulking because he's not getting attention/reaction. 

This is certainly possible.  It's hard to know what their real, honest to goodness personalities are like without cameras and reality tv being involved.  Much less having just married a stranger.  Heather did tell PC that she felt this was a mistake.  I have to agree.

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

He totally looked high as heck in those shots.

I read this as "shorts" and just about died laughing.

[seasick]

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I would be fine with taking things slow if the guy made it clear that he was attracted to me. There are lots of ways to express attraction without sexual activity. Given that Sonia has expressed many times that she doesn't know if Nick is attracted to her, Nick hasn't made that clear. I would come right out and ask, which would either lead to a "Yes but I want to take things slow because [reasons]" conversation, or "No." If I got a no, I'd leave, because who wants to be in a romantic relationship with someone who isn't attracted to them? What's the point? That's a friendship. In Sonia's situation, I'd probably ask the question again at the end of the six weeks if Nick said no the first time I asked, and would use the answer to inform my decision about staying married or not.

Sonia isn't going to ask, I don't think; that doesn't seem like her MO. But I think she should.

I haven't said much about Heather and Derek. While I like Pastor Calvin, Heather wasn't going to come off well during that meeting. I would not have been cool at ALL with having that meeting right after I got off the plane. Traveling takes a lot out of you, she was already stressed ... let them regroup and talk in the morning. I get cranky when I'm tired (which can be an issue, as I have trouble sleeping) and more than anything, I think Heather just really wanted to go home, wash the travel stink off her, and go to sleep. Jumping RIGHT into a heavy conversation was not wise. She looked pissed the entire scene and I bet I'd look the same way in that situation.

 

ITA.  I'm no fan of Heather, that's for sure, but I understand her being totally fried and exhausted and not being in any condition or state of mind to make a decision.  The Pastor annoyed the hell out of me for pounding on her to decide and the 'no one held a gun to your head to be MAFS'.  I admire her for keeping her composure even after saying Numerous Times she was exhausted and needed time to rest and unwind.   The last thing she needed was someone pushing her or criticizing her at that time.

I would think his roll would be to talk her Off the ledge--not PUSH her off the ledge.  (DO you want to end this???!)  I wish he had urged them to stay together for the sake of the "social experiment' --take the 'Forever' pressure out of it-- and see if you could learn to get along as just two people.  Heather especially could gain alot by just not taking every-little-thing SO seriously!  Every little flaw or difference in Derek is just the end of the world.  Derek too, could learn not to be so defensive.  I think this couple is doomed --but they shouldn't be so willing to urge couples to give up so soon. You never know  if once they take the pressure off themselves and each other how things could change.

I live at the shore so I get the bare feet thing. Inside and out.   Even in sandals my feet can get filthy.  And I don't know what's up about those tile floors but you can sweep and mop all day but they pick up sand and road grit like crazy.  

[Lola16]

4 minutes ago, Rover said:

In the end, those with large personal debts on this show will fail.   Sonia & Nick, for starters.   He strikes me as conservative that way.   But the others, also.  Don't see them financially compatible nor genuinely that much into each other.  Tom and Lilly seem like a couple on an extended one-night stand and Heather and Derek are just flat out like water and oil - no way.   I was hoping for more this season - at least a few weeks more of possible longer-term connections.    

Didn't at least 2 of the experts say that they paired Sonia with Nick and Lilly with Tom because the men are good providers? Am I remembering that correctly?

10 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

 Like someone posted before but I can't remember who as my brains and eyeballs are falling out from reading, Tom might have noticed that Lily might have the tendency to gain some weight down the road. 

I think Lilly does have to work on being as slim as she is.  I thought Tom said that Lilly's family was beautiful while he was still at the altar.  He sat with her mother and sisters at the reception so it's not like he thinks she comes from a family of stick figures.

[Jack Sampson]

1 minute ago, Lola16 said:

Didn't at least 2 of the experts say that they paired Sonia with Nick and Lilly with Tom because the men are good providers? Am I remembering that correctly?

I think Lilly does have to work on being as slim as she is.  I thought Tom said that Lilly's family was beautiful while he was still at the altar.  He sat with her mother and sisters at the reception so it's not like he thinks she comes from a family of stick figures.

Pepper made a point about Lily's career not paying well so Nick is expected to finance her lifestyle.  That's a big ask of a guy who doesn't even find you attractive.  I'm interested in seeing what she brings to the table in day-to-day life.

[TzuShih]

As a champion of all the positives that go into a good human-canine relationship, I also try to be a responsible dog owner. I'm happy to see that Nick obviously loves his dogs, but, I had to roll my eyes when he said to Sonia, "Careful, they may jump." WHY is it not Nick's responsibility to teach the dogs NOT to jump. He wants Sonia to accept his pups as 'family,' so it's in his best interest to make the dog/human introduction a polite, enjoyable occasion.

Why not help ease Sonia into the "new family" by all of them attending a local Obedience School? Classes are fun, and Sonia could learn so much about dogs in general, and at the same time, bond with their own dogs. And Nick could learn better "doggy etiquette" by setting boundaries for his pups. A well-trained dog is usually a happier dog, AND it totally strengthens the human-canine bond. (Plus in THIS case, it sure couldn't hurt the human-human relationship!)  ;D

P.S.  I've always had Shih Tzu, and I know for a fact that almost all dogs can be trained.  They loved obedience and agility.  Living in the city, it's made life easier for me, my dogs, and my neighbors!  :D

[SaucyMommy]

Just catching up today - been so busy.

Lily and Tom: I think she would go along with anything at this point. I don't know why Tom wants a post-nuptial agreement. That just seems so weird to me. If I were to compare these two side by side - my guess is Lily is brining more to the table. And if he wants it in writing that no one gets the bus but him in the divorce - I don't think that would be an issue. I see these two starting to fizzle mid-season. This just doesn't seem like a good fit to me at all. He seems like a hiking/surfing type - and she always has make up on and is always dressed really well - it just seems like they live in different worlds.

Heather and Derek - It is clear to me that by next week she will ask for a divorce and I don't know why they insist on dragging this out. I really hated the dress she wore, and she spent so much time doing her hair - yet the final product was stringy and gross. I don't like heather at all - and Derek just annoys the crap out of me. I just wish they would get these two off the show asap.

Nick and Sonia - I am starting to think that Nick is maybe just in his own world. I have wondered from the beginning if he has some form of autism. He just is so socially awkward and seems to have a really difficult time with touch and intimacy. He is highly intelligent and he says the right things in the sound bites but then when he's with her it does not translate. And I think the more distant he is the more insecure she is going to start to feel. Nick better step it up here or he's gonna blow his shot.