All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[Guest]

I hate Lorelei I’m PS I Lo....

Emily tried to help, and Lorelai was just so rude to her. She also said at different times how she wanted Rory to have a good relationship with her grandparents, and then she tells Rory that she ran off to “hell.” She always undermines that relationship, especially in early seasons.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Emily tried to help, and Lorelai was just so rude to her. She also said at different times how she wanted Rory to have a good relationship with her grandparents, and then she tells Rory that she ran off to “hell.” She always undermines that relationship, especially in early seasons.

AND she told Max that "nobody is safe in that house".  Gee whiz!  I'm surprised he didn't assume abuse and try to call the cops or something.

[greekmom]

Rewatched S1 episode: "Christopher Returns" when Rory meets Straub and Francine.  I loved the way Richard and Emily stood up for Lorelai and Rory (even if it was for their own reasons).  But I can't believe that Straub and Francine are so cold to their only granddaughter at the time. And then later on are more attentive to Gigi (to the point which Francine would accept to watch her).

I also didn't understand how Lorelai "ruined" Christopher's life.  Lorelai refused Christopher's marriage when they were 16.  She basically cleared him of any responsibility of Rory.  Christopher could have had whatever future Straub wanted for him including Princeton if Christopher wanted it.  Lorelai had nothing to do with that.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, greekmom said:

Rewatched S1 episode: "Christopher Returns" when Rory meets Straub and Francine.  I loved the way Richard and Emily stood up for Lorelai and Rory (even if it was for their own reasons).  But I can't believe that Straub and Francine are so cold to their only granddaughter at the time. And then later on are more attentive to Gigi (to the point which Francine would accept to watch her).

I also didn't understand how Lorelai "ruined" Christopher's life.  Lorelai refused Christopher's marriage when they were 16.  She basically cleared him of any responsibility of Rory.  Christopher could have had whatever future Straub wanted for him including Princeton if Christopher wanted it.  Lorelai had nothing to do with that.

Yes, I hate it when people blame children for the circumstances of their birth.  Like little Baby Rory somehow manipulated her parents into having sex before she was conceived.   Equally as bad is blaming babies when their mothers die in labor. Yeah, the baby totally planned it and giggled with evil delight.

I've always headscratched at how Lorelai ruined his life also.  As far as I know, she never even asked him for child support. I think he was hurt that she turned down his marriage proposal, but that didn't stop him from going to college and then working with his father.  And, even if the pregnancy and Rory's existence were the cause of that, Lorelai didn't do that by herself.  He's equally responsible.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, greekmom said:

Rewatched S1 episode: "Christopher Returns" when Rory meets Straub and Francine.  I loved the way Richard and Emily stood up for Lorelai and Rory (even if it was for their own reasons).  But I can't believe that Straub and Francine are so cold to their only granddaughter at the time. And then later on are more attentive to Gigi (to the point which Francine would accept to watch her).

I also didn't understand how Lorelai "ruined" Christopher's life.  Lorelai refused Christopher's marriage when they were 16.  She basically cleared him of any responsibility of Rory.  Christopher could have had whatever future Straub wanted for him including Princeton if Christopher wanted it.  Lorelai had nothing to do with that.

Lorelai didn't ruin Christopher's life. There was nothing to stop him from going to Princeton even less reason after Lorelai turned down his proposal and Christopher took that to mean he didn't have to do anything to support and raise his daughter. I hated his parents from that scene and the flashback to Straub and Francine both basically blaming Lorelai and wanting Richard and Emily to send Lorelai away "girls like that" and wanting to get Christopher off the hook (he's just a baby). Given how Christopher basically got off the hook really what was their problem? They didn't even have to worry about scandal since Lorelai soon left with Rory.  I really hate that Francine later has zero problems babysitting Gigi and continuing to ignore her older granddaughter and really wish Rory had been upset about that.         

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really hate that Francine later has zero problems babysitting Gigi and continuing to ignore her older granddaughter and really wish Rory had been upset about that.         

Legitimate vs. illegitimate?  Lawdy, these people.

On the other hand, Straub always came across to be as an abuser.  Francine seemed like a typical cowed, abused wife.  Maybe she gained some courage after he bought the farm.  Of course, that doesn't explain why she continued to ignore Rory.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Kohola3
Brain started firing up.

[andromeda331]

2 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Legitimate vs. illegitimate?  Lawdy, these people.

Gigi was illegitimate Sherry calls Christopher her fiancé when Gigi was born.  They married later. But so did Christopher and Lorelai. 

[greekmom]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Lorelai didn't ruin Christopher's life. There was nothing to stop him from going to Princeton even less reason after Lorelai turned down his proposal and Christopher took that to mean he didn't have to do anything to support and raise his daughter. I hated his parents from that scene and the flashback to Straub and Francine both basically blaming Lorelai and wanting Richard and Emily to send Lorelai away "girls like that" and wanting to get Christopher off the hook (he's just a baby). Given how Christopher basically got off the hook really what was their problem? They didn't even have to worry about scandal since Lorelai soon left with Rory.  I really hate that Francine later has zero problems babysitting Gigi and continuing to ignore her older granddaughter and really wish Rory had been upset about that.         

Exactly.

But Rory was ok with it and even was ok with picking up Gigi from Francine's house in one episode. I wasn't expecting them to be all loving like Lorelai's parents were to Rory but hey, at least acknowledge the fact that this is your granddaughter as well.  I think they would have been warmer to a stranger than to Rory.

[andromeda331]

Every time I watch those two scenes with Straub and Francine I really hope that Lorelai sent a picture or copy of Rory's acceptance letter to Princeton and added something snarky like Princeton isn't good enough for a Gilmore or something. And Richard and Emily bump into them at charity thing and rub it in or when their racing off to call everyone and tell them their granddaughter is going to Yale (a scene I love because their so excited) that they called Straub and Francine to brag Rory got into Yale and turned down Princeton or something. Come on Gilmores for once use your insults and comebacks towards those too. I'm sure you could come up with good ones.   

Edited April 25, 2018 by andromeda331

[readster]

On 4/25/2018 at 8:31 AM, andromeda331 said:

Every time I watch those two scenes with Straub and Francine I really hope that Lorelai sent a picture or copy of Rory's acceptance letter to Princeton and added something snarky like Princeton isn't good enough for a Gilmore or something. And Richard and Emily bump into them at charity thing and rub it in or when their racing off to call everyone and tell them their granddaughter is going to Yale (a scene I love because their so excited) that they called Straub and Francine to brag Rory got into Yale and turned down Princeton or something. Come on Gilmores for once use your insults and comebacks towards those too. I'm sure you could come up with good ones.   

I know what you mean, just like I got so tired of "Poor Christopher" for the entire series. He was given so much slack by everyone, that NOTHING was his fault. The 4 part revival continued to point that crap out. Christopher still feeling he was blameless in everything, I hated those scenes and I know Rick Suttcliff felt that Chris got away with too much at times. I could see Straub being basically mentally abusive. Being the BMC and always needing control over everything, making Francine the classic quiet and never thinking for herself person and the same going with Christopher. In fact, I was shocked that Christopher's grandfather left everything to him. I mean, to feel that you don't think your son (who was still alive at the time) was worth your inheritance and basically signing everything over to your only grandchild. Showed that he didn't think much of Straub either. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I think Straub had died by then. He passed in season 4 or 5, which led to the night of Christopher and Lorelai drinking tequila, which Lorelai then fessed up to Luke at the Vow Renewal. The grandfather died in season 6, when Christopher offered to pay for Yale, right after Lorelai and Rory had mended their rift. 

[Guest]

I thought Francine was passive and never found a role in life other than in relation to someone else. She was Straub’s wife and went along with what he said. Then after losing him, she embraced her role as “grandma” fully. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I thought Francine was passive and never found a role in life other than in relation to someone else. She was Straub’s wife and went along with what he said. Then after losing him, she embraced her role as “grandma” fully. 

For one granddaughter? Not both? If Straub was the problem he wasn't anymore after he died. She could have contacted Rory if she wanted too. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

For one granddaughter? Not both? If Straub was the problem he wasn't anymore after he died. She could have contacted Rory if she wanted too. 

She could have, but I think she didn’t really want to form a relationship with Rory at that point- too much baggage. Gigi was still at the age where it is fun and no history to work through.

[shron17]

44 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

For one granddaughter? Not both? If Straub was the problem he wasn't anymore after he died. She could have contacted Rory if she wanted too. 

Passive people don't generally do anything to rock the boat or change things.  It might have been difficult to form a relationship with Rory after all those years and Francine wasn't sufficiently motivated to go to the trouble.  On the other hand, Chris needed help with Gigi and brought her around so that was easy.

[andromeda331]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 8:10 PM, shron17 said:

Passive people don't generally do anything to rock the boat or change things.  It might have been difficult to form a relationship with Rory after all those years and Francine wasn't sufficiently motivated to go to the trouble.  On the other hand, Chris needed help with Gigi and brought her around so that was easy.

I really wish they had dug into this though. It always bugged me that Francine had no problems with Gigi and babysat her. Even after Christopher and Lorelai got married she still babysat Gigi but did nothing for Rory. How could Rory not get upset by that? I really wish they had let Rory be upset about stuff. She made comments about being unhappy with Christopher at times. Her remarks to Marty in season four, her anger at Christopher in Haunted Leg, but never showed Christopher and Rory working that out. Nope, next time Christopher comes after the Haunted Leg was the Baby Shower which Lorelai was surprised by because she thought they were still on the outs with Christopher, Rory admits she had been in contact with Christopher. Why not show us that? Show us Christopher trying to make up with Rory? They could have shown us emails from Christopher after the Haunted Leg and Rory deciding whether or not to read them. Maybe she doesn't read them for awhile but eventually decides to read one.  Why not show Christopher trying to talk to Rory and make up with her? Nope, they won't do that. When Christopher makes an ass out of himself at the renewal which Rory was upset about but then an episode or two later Rory tells Lorelai its all fixed. How is it all fixed? Why is it all fixed? Why can't we see it get fixed? What could he possibly say about showing up drunk and trying to break her mother up with her boyfriend? Why can't we see Christopher really trying to make it up to his daughter or watch them really finally build a relationship. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by andromeda331

[shron17]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I really wish they had dug into this though.

I didn't care that much about Francine or Straub, but I would have liked to see Rory and Christopher building a better relationship--e.g. Chris apologizing and taking responsibility for the way he treated Rory throughout her life.  I hated the way he seemed to get away with implying he couldn't be a proper father to Rory because Lorelai wouldn't marry him.   Honestly, when Lorelai asked Chris if he wanted to come when she went to talk to Rory after Logan's proposal, I would have loved to see him go with her and say something like, I'm going to leave you to talk to your mom now, but I just wanted to tell you I love you and I'll support you with whatever you decide, and if you want to talk more about it, let me know.  For me that would have gone a long way toward showing that Christopher finally got it, at least a little bit.  Although I was pretty much satisfied by the Christopher/Rory scene in the revival showing that Chris never did step up, and as a consequence now didn't have much of a relationship with Rory.

As for Francine, I imagine the fact that Rory didn't even meet her until she was 16, and didn't see her father often, meant she just didn't have that much interest.  Also, the show itself was always focused more on the Gilmores.  But if it really bugs you, it might make a good fanfiction.  What bothered me about Francine was the fact that she and Lorelai apparently had no contact at all while Chris and Lorelai were married.

Edited April 30, 2018 by shron17

[andromeda331]

9 minutes ago, shron17 said:

I didn't care that much about Francine or Straub, but I would have liked to see Rory and Christopher building a better relationship--e.g. Chris apologizing and taking responsibility for the way he treated Rory throughout her life.  I hated the way he seemed to get away with implying he couldn't be a proper father to Rory because Lorelai wouldn't marry him.   Honestly, when Lorelai asked Chris if he wanted to come when she went to talk to Rory after Logan's proposal, I would have loved to see him go with her and say something like, I'm going to leave you to talk to your mom now, but I just wanted to tell you I love you and I'll support you with whatever you decide, and if you want to talk more about it, let me know.  For me that would have gone a long way toward showing that Christopher finally got it, at least a little bit.  Although I was pretty much satisfied by the Christopher/Rory scene in the revival showing that Chris never did step up, and as a consequence now didn't have much of a relationship with Rory.

As for Francine, I imagine the fact that Rory didn't even meet her until she was 16, and didn't see her father often, meant she just didn't have that much interest.  Also, the show itself was always focused more on the Gilmores.  But if it really bugs you, it might make a good fanfiction.  What bothered me about Francine was the fact that she and Lorelai apparently had no contact at all while Chris and Lorelai were married.

I agree I hated that they implied that too. Christopher proposed and Lorelai said no so he was completely off the hook at anything that came to Rory. Ah, no he wasn't and shouldn't have been.  He should have been helping or doing something the entire time. I don't care if he continued to move around the country he still could have sent money to Lorelai every month or so and stayed contact. There's many men who never marry their baby's mother but still remain active their child's life. Even when the mother has sole custody. He had sixteen years to grow up and take care off his child. He always chose not too. Rory was so excited when Christopher came to Stars Hollow the first time why couldn't he have started then to be more in Rory's life? Or after the Haunted Leg in season three? That was another good time Rory was really upset and hurt that he broke his promise and told him that when he showed up at the Gilmore house. That would have been another great moment for Christopher to finally step up and be father. That would have been a good time for Rory to tell Christopher how hurt she was by him never being there or wanting to be there. They could have started over then with Christopher really trying. To show Rory she can depend on him and he'll still be her dad even though chose to stay with Sherry and the baby. It really would have been nice to see Christopher trying to build relationship with his older daughter. Try to make up for not being there for her childhood. 

[Llywela]

Straub and Francine not bothering with Rory might seem mean and cruel - which it is - but actually rings very true to me. I've seen it happen a lot in real life that where the parents of a child have split up and the father isn't very actively involved in his child's life, his family just...stop bothering. My own niece (aged 2) has been effectively disowned by her father's family, for no reason at all beyond that he is no longer in a relationship with her mother, moved away and doesn't see her much, and they just can't be bothered to make the effort to have a relationship with her outside of him. She didn't even get an acknowledgement on her birthday, not so much as a card. Her cousin's grandparents (on the other side) pay more attention to her than the grandparents they actually share. Yet they have other grandchildren they do bother with, the ones their children are actively parenting. So Straub and Francine effectively writing Rory off while choosing to be involved with Gigi seems real to me. Not very nice, but real.

[Taryn74]

Honestly I never really cared that Francine didn't try to be a part of Rory's life - before or after Straub passed.  Before, for obvious reasons, and after, because Rory was in her early 20s by that time and there was already so much drama between the families.  Why make it worse?  (Because we all know Lorelai would not have reacted well to Francine suddenly trying to play loving grandmother just because her ass of a husband was dead.)

They Haydens borderline implied they didn't even believe Chris was for sure Rory's biological father anyway.  They had talked themselves into not caring if they ever got to know her a long, long time ago.

[ghoulina]

I don't necessarily think Francine DID want a relationship with Rory. Ever. I tend to think she was just as snobbishly disgusted by the whole thing as Straub. The only reason she objected was because she didn't like public displays like that. Not because she actually cared about hurting Rory's feelings. 

I think she had a relationship with Gigi because she found her more acceptable. Yes, it was another out-of-wedlock birth; but, I imagine, she found Sherri more "proper" than Lorelai. Lorelai was some teenager who ran off and got a job at an inn. Sherri was a high powered executive with some money of her own. And Chris was the one raising Gigi, so Francine could create her own little fantasy about how this was "different". I think she could probably spin it to the biddies in her social circle in a way she never could with Rory. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by ghoulina

[shron17]

45 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I think she had a relationship with Gigi because she found her more acceptable.

Remember in that one episode where Lorelai babysat, Chris was talking about trying to get her into a private school.  Lorelai said something about public schools, and Chris said not unless he wants his mother to have a heart attack.  So while Francine didn't have any say at all about Rory was raised, she certainly expected to with Gigi.  And yes, I'm sure she wanted to be able to brag to her friends about how her granddaughter was doing at such and such school

[Guest]

I think Francine was weak and passive and passed that down to Christopher who then passed it down to Rory. 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I think Francine was weak and passive and passed that down to Christopher who then passed it down to Rory. 

You said a mouthful there!  Excellent observation.

[stan4]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:22 AM, Taryn74 said:

Honestly I never really cared that Francine didn't try to be a part of Rory's life - before or after Straub passed.  Before, for obvious reasons, and after, because Rory was in her early 20s by that time and there was already so much drama between the families.  Why make it worse?  (Because we all know Lorelai would not have reacted well to Francine suddenly trying to play loving grandmother just because her ass of a husband was dead.)

They Haydens borderline implied they didn't even believe Chris was for sure Rory's biological father anyway.  They had talked themselves into not caring if they ever got to know her a long, long time ago.

Not to mention Lorelai wasn't interested in letting them have a relationship with them when she was little.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:22 AM, Taryn74 said:

Honestly I never really cared that Francine didn't try to be a part of Rory's life - before or after Straub passed.  Before, for obvious reasons, and after, because Rory was in her early 20s by that time and there was already so much drama between the families.  Why make it worse?  (Because we all know Lorelai would not have reacted well to Francine suddenly trying to play loving grandmother just because her ass of a husband was dead.)

They Haydens borderline implied they didn't even believe Chris was for sure Rory's biological father anyway.  They had talked themselves into not caring if they ever got to know her a long, long time ago.

This might belong in the Unpopular Opinions thread, but I can't understand why they would question it, considering some stories that Lorelai has told, especially the one from Richard's funeral.  That is one of my least favorite rewrites/inconsistencies.  They acted like Lorelai and Christopher were this fantastic couple for a long time but then Lorelai tells a story about Richard walking in on her about to have sex with someone when she was 14? 15? I don't remember.  Anyway, and how he said she was losing her virginity but in reality, she has lost it "long" ago. So, Christopher was at least the third guy Lorelai was willing to sleep with by the time she was 15. I can see why they would question if it was Christopher's.

[Frelling Tralk]

1 hour ago, stan4 said:

Not to mention Lorelai wasn't interested in letting them have a relationship with them when she was little.

Well Lorelei wasn’t that keen on even her own parents having a relationship with Rory, one of the early episodes has Emily point out that she’s uncomfortable to see Rory bonding with her grandfather because she always assumed that Rory would be just like her mother in rejecting upper-class society, so I definitely can’t picture her welcoming Christopher’s parents coming over for a visit. I think she always kind of saw her running away as a statement, and it was meant to be her and Rory against the world after that, so it suited her that no one from that life was interested in following her to Stars Hollow to interfere in the raising of Rory.

She also gets very possessive and irritated when Sherri first suggests Rory spending weekends away from her mother, even though she should surely have wanted to encourage Rory to share more time with her father and new stepmother. It wasn’t just Christopher who only seemed to view his relationship with Rory in terms of whether he was dating Lorelai or not, Lorelai too definitely gave off the vibe that she was more comfortable with Christopher and Rory spending time together only if it was as part of a family unit that included Lorelai

[elang4]

25 minutes ago, Frelling Tralk said:

Well Lorelei wasn’t that keen on even her own parents having a relationship with Rory, one of the early episodes has Emily point out that she’s uncomfortable to see Rory bonding with her grandfather because she always assumed that Rory would be just like her mother in rejecting upper-class society, so I definitely can’t picture her welcoming Christopher’s parents coming over for a visit. I think she always kind of saw her running away as a statement, and it was meant to be her and Rory against the world after that, so it suited her that no one from that life was interested in following her to Stars Hollow to interfere in the raising of Rory.

She also gets very possessive and irritated when Sherri first suggests Rory spending weekends away from her mother, even though she should surely have wanted to encourage Rory to share more time with her father and new stepmother. It wasn’t just Christopher who only seemed to view his relationship with Rory in terms of whether he was dating Lorelai or not, Lorelai too definitely gave off the vibe that she was more comfortable with Christopher and Rory spending time together only if it was as part of a family unit that included Lorelai

I completely agree. That really annoyed me about Lorelai. She complained about them not wanting anything to do with Rory and Chris being awol all the time and then when they do make the effort, she doesn’t like it. Even Rory called her out on it when she kept that call from Chris a secret when he wanted Rory to stay over.

[Taryn74]

29 minutes ago, Frelling Tralk said:

It wasn’t just Christopher who only seemed to view his relationship with Rory in terms of whether he was dating Lorelai or not,

Say it again, a little louder this time!

Lorelai paid lip service to wanting Christopher to be a part of Rory's life whether they were "together" (or even on good terms) or not, but her behavior screamed otherwise. 

[stan4]

Figured out another thing that annoys me about Luke.

 

He breathes too loudly and breathes/sighs too much when he talks.

 

Perfect example: Watch the part when he brings the chuppah to Lorelai's house.  Maddening.

[Viqutorious]

2 hours ago, stan4 said:

Figured out another thing that annoys me about Luke.

 

He breathes too loudly and breathes/sighs too much when he talks.

 

Perfect example: Watch the part when he brings the chuppah to Lorelai's house.  Maddening.

He does this awkward huffing/snort when he talks. Drives me crazy! I’m so glad I’m not the only one who’s noticed!

Edited May 2, 2018 by CheeseBurgh

[OhSarah69]

When Christopher's father dies, and Rory goes to his mother's house with milk & cookies (and later, Lorelai goes to his mother's house with "grown-up milk & cookies", i.e. alcohol), I have to wonder...once Rory is inside Francine's (her grandmother's!) home, does Francine interact with Rory at all?   Like does Christopher say, "Mom, Rory is here to help us grieve Straub, can you at least acknowledge her?".  Or do he and Rory just hang out in the den by themselves, mowing down on cookies, while Francine (and baby Georgia) stays hidden in an upstairs bedroom, rather than interact with Rory?  I really wished Christopher would man up - surely now that his dad was gone, he had more of a chance convincing his mom that Rory wasn't the cause of all his shortcomings in life.  Christopher had his charms, but was always really more of a boy than a man.  Partly why Lorelai liked Luke, I think.

[stan4]

How exactly is Logan supposed to be Christopher?  This makes no sense to me.

 

If anything, Christopher and Dean have way more in common.

High school loves.  Motorcycles (superficial, I  know).  

Dumped by respective Lorelais.

Obsess about their respective Lorelais despite being with other women.

Pop up over and over as a love interest that is more about the familiarity than true compatibility and desire.

Neither Chris nor Dean fit in with their respective woman's life direction.

Neither Chris nor Dean were really going anywhere in life.  They were both fairly unsophisticated and uneducated.

Both men live in the women's worlds instead of really having their own thing.  Like puppy dogs.

Both men insecure and easily threatened.

Neither guy really bettered the woman (and vice versa).  Didn't encourage their growth (sometimes felt threatened by it).  

Neither guy was particularly ambitious or passionate about anything.

[Kohola3]

36 minutes ago, stan4 said:

How exactly is Logan supposed to be Christopher? 

Poor little rich boys who think that throwing money at a problem should be sufficient.  Both blame their daddy for their wretched lives while still spending the family money hand over fist.  Both bumped from big money schools for misbehaving.  Both think sex is the answer to any problem and that their women should be grateful to drop their current lives at their proposal of marriage. 

And neither guy was particularly ambitious or passionate about anything.  Except themselves.

[stan4]

13 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Poor little rich boys who think that throwing money at a problem should be sufficient.  Both blame their daddy for their wretched lives while still spending the family money hand over fist.  Both bumped from big money schools for misbehaving.  Both think sex is the answer to any problem and that their women should be grateful to drop their current lives at their proposal of marriage. 

And neither guy was particularly ambitious or passionate about anything.  Except themselves.

I agree with the rich boy money thing.  And yeah, they were both expelled from schools.

Every significant guy on that show had daddy issues except Dean and Max.  Logan, Chris, Jason, Jess, Luke, Zach...

At the end, Logan seemed to be really excited to go out and make it for himself.  We get total reversal in that pig of a revival (where character assassination was the trope du jour), but Logan seemed to really grow and change in seasons 6 and 7.

[Kohola3]

I'm not sure Luke had a daddy issue - their relationship seemed to be positive from what we know.

Jason's dad, oy the poodles with that horrible man!

I guess I don't remember Zach's issues.

2 minutes ago, stan4 said:

...that pig of a revival...

Excellent description!

[elang4]

30 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I'm not sure Luke had a daddy issue - their relationship seemed to be positive from what we know.

Jason's dad, oy the poodles with that horrible man!

I guess I don't remember Zach's issues.

Excellent description!

I agree. It was clear that Luke was very close to his dad when he was alive.

Zach’s dad, I think, ran off soon after he was born. A bit like Jess’. So he never really knew him.

[stan4]

Luke was close with his father and respected and loved him.

However, he had weird issues like not wanting to move on that manifested in his leaving the hardware store the way it was, living in the office, and having his 'dark day.'  I assume this is because he and his father leaned so heavily on each other when the mother died.

 

Zach was losing his crap about being a father bc he didn't know how to be one due to never really having one.  Said he didn't know how to throw a ball, etc.

Luke reassures him by telling him he will find his dad mode.

Edited May 12, 2018 by stan4

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, stan4 said:

Neither Chris nor Dean were really going anywhere in life.  They were both fairly unsophisticated and uneducated.

I don't think that's fair to Dean. Yeah, he didn't go to college, but he wasn't lazy like Christopher.  He worked hard.  he was getting into construction with Tom, which if he had eventually branched out into being a contractor on his own would have been lucrative.  IDK what happened on the revival, but he was like 20 years old the last time we saw him on the original show.  Way to early in his life to say he wasn't going anywhere.  It was stupid for him to get married that young with no plan.  But, that's not the same thing as heading to total loserville on a bullet train.

[stan4]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think that's fair to Dean. Yeah, he didn't go to college, but he wasn't lazy like Christopher.  He worked hard.  he was getting into construction with Tom, which if he had eventually branched out into being a contractor on his own would have been lucrative.  IDK what happened on the revival, but he was like 20 years old the last time we saw him on the original show.  Way to early in his life to say he wasn't going anywhere.  It was stupid for him to get married that young with no plan.  But, that's not the same thing as heading to total loserville on a bullet train.

I never said he was lazy.  But we're talking about what we can see.  What we've been given.  The Dean we see is like this.  Who knows what happens to the Dean we don't see?

And we can extrapolate that he goes on to do bigger and better things through sheer work ethic alone (though lots of people have work ethic but don't ever create opportunities or go anywhere with it), but as far as we see in the original series, he goes nowhere and has no plans to go anywhere.

He even outlines this to Luke when he says that stuff about how Rory and Lorelai need guys who can give them more.

[clack]

Christopher never made sense as a character. He should have been written as an elusive figure in Lorelai and Rory's life, instead of being, for long stretches of time, a non-existent one. Where was he at important events in Rory's life -- birthdays, graduations, major holidays? We didn't see him there, and it's not as if had a career keeping him away.

The Christopher we did see when he does show up seems to be presented as sympathetic, charming, articulate -- a plausible end-game romantic partner for Lorelai. I can buy that Christopher, the Christopher we see, as a shallow, immature boy-man who is a neglectful father, but neglectful in a more nuanced way than what we're shown. Someone who does swoop in on the major occasions with too-expensive, tone-deaf gifts maybe and then disappears for months, rather than someone who doesn't show up at all. 

In more realistic narrative, Lorelai would never have forgiven him for missing a Rory birthday. Imagine a tearful 7 year old Rory asking where's daddy? Would Lorelai ever marry that guy?

Edited May 12, 2018 by clack

[Viqutorious]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

don't think that's fair to Dean. Yeah, he didn't go to college

We have no idea if he graduated from college. In my mind he went back and graduated after his divorce. In the new show he was living in Syracuse expecting his 3rd or 4th kid. 

He moved away and kids are expensive!  That’s the story in my head lol.

Edited May 13, 2018 by CheeseBurgh

[monkeyunderpants]

I am generally not a big fan of Logan, but I love the moment when Rory comes to his dorm to tell him that she can't handle an open relationship, and he's sitting there, alone, reading and listening to this song:

Also, my favorite Rory moment is her remark when Lorelai tells her Jason has been sending her things and she says, "Pipe bombs?" It's just a wonderful, small snarky moment.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

However, he had weird issues like not wanting to move on that manifested in his leaving the hardware store the way it was, living in the office, and having his 'dark day.'  I assume this is because he and his father leaned so heavily on each other when the mother died.

This is going to sound really stupid because even though I watched the episode where Luke had his "dark day", I still don't know what it was about. Help?

[Kohola3]

35 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I still don't know what it was about.

The anniversary of his dad's passing.

[peacheslatour]

28 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

The anniversary of his dad's passing.

Thanks! Does he actually go somewhere?

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Thanks! Does he actually go somewhere?

Dunno.  It's just established that he closes up and disappears.  Maybe he sits in that lady's garage in the unfinished boat!

[chitowngirl]

This episode was just on UP. He went camping. Whether he does this every year....

[Kohola3]

5 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

This episode was just on UP.

I wonder if Freeform is done with showing it?  It abruptly disappeared.  I don't get UP.

[peacheslatour]

17 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

This episode was just on UP. He went camping. Whether he does this every year....

The average temp in CT in Nov. is in the thirties. Brrrr.