All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Frelling Tralk said:

Agreed, I never got the impression that they were still having regular meetings, it came across as a one-off reunion that was geared more towards being a nostalgic memory of their college years, and that was exactly what Rory needed at the time 

As far as we saw, none of them had responsibilities they were shirking for that weekend, and they didn't do anything abnormally risky (though I could be wrong; I didn't watch it that closely).  So other than spending reckless amounts of money, it didn't seem to be that much different than a guys' or girls' weekend away.

[readster]

15 hours ago, deaja said:

As far as we saw, none of them had responsibilities they were shirking for that weekend, and they didn't do anything abnormally risky (though I could be wrong; I didn't watch it that closely).  So other than spending reckless amounts of money, it didn't seem to be that much different than a guys' or girls' weekend away.

Same here, in fact the way Rory was explaining what had happened to a few of them in the last few years. Sounded like they were pretty busy with other things and they rarely do anything crazy anymore except in cheering each other up because "life is hard". 

[chitowngirl]

It still amuses me that the UP network bleeps out every "hell" and "damn", but leaves in that Jason wants to "piss" off his dad.

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, readster said:

Same here, in fact the way Rory was explaining what had happened to a few of them in the last few years. Sounded like they were pretty busy with other things and they rarely do anything crazy anymore except in cheering each other up because "life is hard". 

I didn't see the revival, but even if they're getting together a few times a year to do something semi-crazy, such as skydiving or um (OK I don't do semicrazy stuff, so I don't have a list), it wouldn't make the immature or irresponsible.  Who says all fun must stop at 25?

[Eeksquire]

Jumping to a different topic: last night I rewatched the episode with the Luke-Lorelei/Rory-Dean double date and ... I'm perplexed.  Aside from the drunken bachelor party, what other bad interaction did Luke have with Dean to make him behave that way? It strikes me as manufactured drama.  He objects because... Dean is divorced? But so is Luke.  It's so bizarre and nonsensical.

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

Jumping to a different topic: last night I rewatched the episode with the Luke-Lorelei/Rory-Dean double date and ... I'm perplexed.  Aside from the drunken bachelor party, what other bad interaction did Luke have with Dean to make him behave that way? It strikes me as manufactured drama.  He objects because... Dean is divorced? But so is Luke.  It's so bizarre and nonsensical.

Did Luke cheat on his wife?  I mean Rory cheated too, but Luke, apparently, sees Rory as his daughter-like person, so she can do no wrong.

[Taryn74]

20 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

Jumping to a different topic: last night I rewatched the episode with the Luke-Lorelei/Rory-Dean double date and ... I'm perplexed.  Aside from the drunken bachelor party, what other bad interaction did Luke have with Dean to make him behave that way? It strikes me as manufactured drama.  He objects because... Dean is divorced? But so is Luke.  It's so bizarre and nonsensical.

I think Luke just doesn't like Dean in general, he never has (he made that known as early as S1 when Dean and Rory broke up the first time) and Dean first getting married when he was clearly not over Rory, and then cheating on his wife with Rory (whom Luke has always seen as an innocent princess) and flaunting around town like they were the greatest ever just didn't sit well with Luke.  I know it didn't me.  

[Frelling Tralk]

I think Luke was just pissed at the whole adultery scandal dragging Rory down, and he would have blamed Dean for it after overhearing Dean on his bachelor night talking about not being over Rory. He waaay overstepped in his reactions on that double date though, I was so embarrassed for him when he started gloating 'in your face' after beating Dean with a freaking bop-it game, and Dean was just bemused and all 'okay then '. He was acting like a passive-aggressive little child

Edited August 17, 2017 by Frelling Tralk

[timimouse]

14 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

I think Luke just doesn't like Dean in general, he never has (he made that known as early as S1 when Dean and Rory broke up the first time) and Dean first getting married when he was clearly not over Rory, and then cheating on his wife with Rory (whom Luke has always seen as an innocent princess) and flaunting around town like they were the greatest ever just didn't sit well with Luke.  I know it didn't me.  

I agree with the "Luke just didn't like Dean" theory. Even when Rory and dean broke up the second time and she started dating Jess, he didn't care that she treated Dean badly, but was just happy that she was with Jess. I don't think that they had much interaction so it may not be a justified dislike, but that's what I think it was.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, timimouse said:

I agree with the "Luke just didn't like Dean" theory. Even when Rory and dean broke up the second time and she started dating Jess, he didn't care that she treated Dean badly, but was just happy that she was with Jess. I don't think that they had much interaction so it may not be a justified dislike, but that's what I think it was.

Which is odd given how Luke warned Jess away from Rory and Dean when he came back in the beginning of season three. That they were together and trying to make it work. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I rewatched Dirty Dancing this week and have come to the conclusion that Colin of LADB fame is either the son or grandson of Neil Kellerman, the creepy grandson of the resort owner who thought he was dating Baby. They even look alike. 

[Goldmoon]

Caught maybe three episodes during the first run but never watched GG.  Just discovered on Netflix a couple of weeks ago and I am about on the tenth ep of season six. I went ahead and watched the reunion to make sure LL ended up together.  The first season is adorable.  I do have issues.

Why does everyone put on LAYERS of clothing to go to bed?  Seriously, LAYERS.

I read that Dean goes "dark." I never saw dark.  Is this supposed to refer to the cheating on his wife thing?

Who on God's Green Earth thought TJ / TJ's actor would be a good addition to the show?

Other than his privilege, I don't understand what Rory sees in Logan.

When Gil showed up I said, "Man!  That guy looks so much like Sebastian Bach!"  The found out it WAS SB. Any word on what motivated him to join GG?

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Goldmoon said:

I read that Dean goes "dark." I never saw dark.  Is this supposed to refer to the cheating on his wife thing?

I think it's how he gets jealous of Tristan and then Jess.  I think dark is too strong. 

 

1 hour ago, Goldmoon said:

Why does everyone put on LAYERS of clothing to go to bed?  Seriously, LAYERS.

Because it's New England and it's cold? 

 

1 hour ago, Goldmoon said:

Other than his privilege, I don't understand what Rory sees in Logan.

Personality-wise, I couldn't tell you. He is kind of cute, though.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

When Gil showed up I said, "Man!  That guy looks so much like Sebastian Bach!"  The found out it WAS SB. Any word on what motivated him to join GG?

I don't know, but I am THRILLED that he did. He is my very very favorite of the tertiary characters on the show.

[timimouse]

On 25/08/2017 at 5:57 PM, Goldmoon said:

I read that Dean goes "dark." I never saw dark.  Is this supposed to refer to the cheating on his wife thing?

I think its in relation to the transition from the end of his marriage to his very last scene when he was speaking with Luke and he just came across as bitter and surly. (Maybe you've not gotten there yet?)

[AsYouWish]

I just started watching the series again from the beginning and was wondering if anyone else feels like season 1 is really different from any of the seasons that follow? Every season is different in its own way, but the tone and characters feel especially different to me in season 1. Lorelai is more giddy, hyper and childlike.  I know she's always that way, but even more so in the first season. It does make for an interesting contrast during the moments when she shifts into responsible mom mode, like in Concertus Interruptus or the end of Double Date. Luke in season 1 is more of a sexy, sort of brooding loner than the cranky old curmudgeon. He also seems more eloquent, quick-witted and sharp. I don't quite know how to explain the distinction, but I feel like he's different the first season than in any other season, and it's when I love him most.  Since Lorelai and Luke both seem different in season 1 to me, it's probably related that Luke/Lorelai together also seems very different than it does through the rest of the series. They're more openly flirtatious and affectionate, and they seem to communicate more openly. Luke comes very close to asking her out at least twice, they both open up more expansively about their families and even other relationships (Rachel) than they seem to later on, and there seems to be a deeper and and more obvious romantic connection between them. I'm really surprised while rewatching to see how many of my favorite Luke/Lorelai scenes of the series are from the first season.

Rory is probably the character who's most different to me in season 1. We all know she changed a lot in season 5, but I also think she's really different in seasons 2, 3, and 4 than when she was first introduced. Now if only I could articulate why I feel that way! :-) In season 1, she seems more sassy and snarky, more assertive and defiant (by Rory standards), less of a people pleaser overall, and more sure of who she is.  She's less fragile and less naive 'deer in headlights' despite this being the season where she does have to overcome some uneasiness about her new school and does in fact have an encounter with an actual deer, and more sharp and aware.  This is the only season where I can actually see Rory becoming a foreign correspondent. In other seasons, I agree with the people who just can't see that as a fit for her at all. 

And Dean. At first, I resisted the idea that Dean was ruined in season 2 to help us understand why Rory would be drawn to Jess, but I have to admit that I do see a different Dean when he's first introduced. Like Luke, Dean seems a lot smarter and more clever in season 1, able to fully appreciate the Gilmores' pop culture references and wit and even bounce comebacks back to them. He's not introduced at all as the simple, doltish, stereotypical townie, but as an independent and even slightly mysterious guy from a big city. He reads. He immediately gets Rory's references to films like Rosemary's Baby. He's pretty sharp and snarky and has a definite mind of his own, not seeming much like the clingy loser who has literally no purpose or interests outside of Rory later on. By the time they break up later on in the season Dean was already showing more of the traits that make him so unpopular with the GG fandom overall, but for most of his time on the show before that, he was actually a lot better than he turned out to be in every other season.  I like that he's more in touch with his emotions than she is and more open about them, which is a nice deviation from the usual dynamic between males and females on TV during that time. I  wouldn't go as far as to say Dean was interesting in season 1, but he had the potential to be, and I can now understand why the Dean fans I know really resented how they wrote Dean differently in the seasons that followed. 

Emily is a little different in season 1 too, and not just her hair and sense of fashion. :-) 

It's not just these individual characters who are different in season 1, but the feel of the show. Characters talked a lot more directly and openly about how they felt and why they were making the chocies they did. This is a plus of season 1 for those of us who later got sick of characters almost never explaining themselves to each other or to the viewers, but it does make for a more dramatic and less subtle and understated show. Season 1 is also sweeter, which can again be viewed two ways - a plus because it makes the show so warm and cozy, a drawback in that it can be considered too syrupy by some. 

I really didn't think this would be such a long post, but I had enough coffee to rival Lorelai this morning, so maybe that's why I can't stop rambling! To sum up: I'm finding most of the characters and the tone are noticeably different in season 1.  It seems to be just what I need right now, because I am loving season 1 so much more than I had remembered! 

Edited August 28, 2017 by AsYouWish

[FictionLover]

I have heard this before, especially about dumbing down Luke and Dean. It's a popular option that L&L's chemistry was much stronger in season 1. Emily wasn't as schrill and a little nicer. Sookie was funnier, klutzier and cuter in season 1 too. All in all, many would agree with you, including me.

[Kohola3]

2 minutes ago, FictionLover said:

All in all, many would agree with you, including me.

And me.  I loved the L&L vibes in S1.  Emily had some (albeit few) redeeming features.  Dean was a sweet first boyfriend.  And then the character assassinations commenced....

[AsYouWish]

Quote

  And then the character assassinations commenced....

Seriously! Does ASP genuinely like any of the characters she created? In later seasons and the revival, it was increasingly hard to make that claim. 

[ghoulina]

On 8/25/2017 at 6:55 PM, Katy M said:

Personality-wise, I couldn't tell you. He is kind of cute, though.

Ew no. Logan looks like weasel, to me. Same reason I find Christopher repulsive. 

 

1 hour ago, AsYouWish said:

And Dean. At first, I resisted the idea that Dean was ruined in season 2 to help us understand why Rory would be drawn to Jess, but I have to admit that I do see a different Dean when he's first introduced. Like Luke, Dean seems a lot smarter and more clever in season 1, able to fully appreciate the Gilmores' pop culture references and wit and even bounce comebacks back to them. He's not introduced at all as the simple, doltish, stereotypical townie, but as an independent and even slightly mysterious guy from a big city. He reads. He immediately gets Rory's references to films like Rosemary's Baby. He's pretty sharp and snarky and has a definite mind of his own, not seeming much like the clingy loser who has literally no purpose or interests outside of Rory later on. By the time they break up later on in the season Dean was already showing more of the traits that make him so unpopular with the GG fandom overall, but for most of his time on the show before that, he was actually a lot better than he turned out to be in every other season.  I like that he's more in touch with his emotions than she is and more open about them, which is a nice deviation from the usual dynamic between males and females on TV during that time. I  wouldn't go as far as to say Dean was interesting in season 1, but he had the potential to be, and I can now understand why the Dean fans I know really resented how they wrote Dean differently in the seasons that followed. 

I definitely think they dumbed Dean down. He did seem sharper and interesting at first. Then he basically became a dumb jock with jealousy issues. My guess is that when they wanted to bring in the smart, well read, subculture loving Jess - they had to make Dean drastically different, otherwise it wouldn't make sense that Rory wanted to dump the former for the latter. But yea, sucked for Dean. He started out a lot cooler. 

[clack]

Dean was purposely dumbed down in order to contrast him with Jess.

I never understood though why Luke's character seemed to vary so much. Not just a case of season 1 versus subsequent seasons, either, but sometimes from episode to episode within a season.

One episode he's a man of the world, reasonably cultured, a romantic partner to a series of beautiful, well-educated, successful women, and then another episode he's a dumb hick who doesn't know how to dress for dinner with the elder Gilmores. One episode he's a closet nerd with opinions on sci-fi TV shows and movies, next episode he's completely ignorant of pop culture.

[ghoulina]

I really don't see a lot of variation with the Luke character, but I guess I could always stand to scrutinize him harder.  Luke not dressing up for dinner didn't seem to reflect on his intelligence level, IMO - he's just being who he is. And I think sci-fi is kind of a niche genre. I can buy that he's a fan of an older "nerdy" show like that, but doesn't have any frame of reference for current popular shows and trends. 

[timimouse]

So I'm watching 'Pulp Friction' and it reminded me how much I despise the way in which Lorelai mocks cultures that.... aren't hers? Case in point: The Reggae Fever CD in Luke's truck -_-. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it being a born and bred Caribbean woman (where I still currently reside) and I LOVE reggae music. Firstly, the songs and artists named were made up. They never invent the names of movies/ rock music or actors and other singers that they mock, so the reggae wasn't worth researching? Secondly, I don't wear knit caps and smoke ganja just because I listen to reggae and Luke saying that he "didn't adopt the entire Rastafarian culture" was actually very stereotypical. Lastly, to imply that every reggae song sounds the same is very insulting.

I'm not just saying this about the reggae though. Just using that as an example. Her insistence to not try / turn up her nose at any other kinds of foods (escargot, sushi, etc.) seems so bizarre from someone coming from such a cultured world. She left at 16, not 6. They must've exposed her to things most people can't afford. Is her mocking of it just another way of rebelling against her parents and "their world"?

Sorry, after typing this I realized it may have been better suited in the Lorelai thread, but it was sparked by this particular episode.

Edited August 31, 2017 by timimouse

[Guest]

Agreed, @timimouse.  Their views on cultures were awful, but even their views on pop culture grated.  They often watched ridiculous movies taped off of tv, but then made fun of any mainstream music?  They were snobs in so many ways.

[Katy M]

4 hours ago, timimouse said:

So I'm watching 'Pulp Friction' and it reminded me how much I despise the way in which Lorelai mocks cultures that.... aren't hers? Case in point: The Reggae Fever CD in Luke's truck -_-. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it being a born and bred Caribbean woman (where I still currently reside) and I LOVE reggae music. Firstly, the songs and artists named were made up. They never invent the names of movies/ rock music or actors and other singers that they mock, so the reggae wasn't worth researching? Secondly, I don't wear knit caps and smoke ganja just because I listen to reggae and Luke saying that he "didn't adopt the entire Rastafarian culture" was actually very stereotypical. Lastly, to imply that every reggae song sounds the same is very insulting.

I'm not just saying this about the reggae though. Just using that as an example. Her insistence to not try / turn up her nose at any other kinds of foods (escargot, sushi, etc.) seems so bizarre from someone coming from such a cultured world. She left at 16, not 6. They must've exposed her to things most people can't afford. Is her mocking of it just another way of rebelling against her parents and "their world"?

Sorry, after typing this I realized it may have been better suited in the Lorelai thread, but it was sparked by this particular episode.

I have a lot less problem about her razzing Luke, a close friend, about Reggae, then I do when they get snobby with acquaintances, or people they're not friends with.  Obviously, people like what they like, and don't like what they don't like, and think their tastes are more rational. That's just human nature.  And razzing a friend in a good-natured way is not a problem, IMO.  But, for instance, Jess rolling his eyes at Lindsay, a girl he barely knew, I think, because she liked Matchbox 20 is just rude.  There are other examples, but that's the one I remember, because I always feel in any situation, Lindsay go the short end of the stick on the show.

[Frelling Tralk]

22 hours ago, deaja said:

Agreed, @timimouse.  Their views on cultures were awful, but even their views on pop culture grated.  They often watched ridiculous movies taped off of tv, but then made fun of any mainstream music?  They were snobs in so many ways.

I agree they were snobbish about anyone who didn't listen to their kind of of music, and they actually only watched a lot of tv and films to make fun of them. The first time we get an episode focused on Lorelai and Rory watching tv, Dean is puzzled at how they just mock the show and make up their own supposedly wittier dialogue, and Rory is surprised that Dean would enjoy The Donna Reed Show in a non-ironic way 

[timimouse]

So i have a question. When Emily and Richard sat her down to discuss a job, Rory said to them that 300hr of community service in 6 months doesn't leave a lot of time for a full time job. But if my math is correct, that works out to approximately 1.5 / 2 hours a day. Are we really expected to believe that she couldn't have a full time 9-5 and still get through her community service or were they trying to show us Rory becoming comfortable at Richard and Emily's and complacent with her sloth life?

[Katy M]

37 minutes ago, timimouse said:

So i have a question. When Emily and Richard sat her down to discuss a job, Rory said to them that 300hr of community service in 6 months doesn't leave a lot of time for a full time job. But if my math is correct, that works out to approximately 1.5 / 2 hours a day. Are we really expected to believe that she couldn't have a full time 9-5 and still get through her community service or were they trying to show us Rory becoming comfortable at Richard and Emily's and complacent with her sloth life?

Maybe the writers can't do math?  Actually, I can see how 2 extra hours a day every day for 6 months could make a full-time job a bit of a challenge.  Not all community service is going to be available in the evenings, there's also the time that it takes to get from the job to the community service, but a part-time job would have been more than doable.  On the other hand, if she could have found a community service "job" that basically let her do it full time, she could have finished in two months and just gotten on with her life.  

Most schools now have community service requirements.  One mother was complaining about this online about how kids just did not have the time to do this.  Now, I'm not going to get into whether the requirement is good, appropriate, or easy to fulfill with hundreds of other kids all trying to do the same community service job, I'm just going to comment on the time factor. She said that they had to do 40 hours over the four years and with all the homework they had plus sports and work they just didn't have time.  When, I pointed out that they could do one week over one summer, or 10 hours each summer, or an hour a week for 40 weeks, and that none of this seemed like that big of a deal, I was again informed that there was not enough time.  Really?  An hour a week?  Or a week during the summer when there shouldnt' be any homework consideration?  People get a bit crazy about time.

[Bringonthedrama]

On 8/25/2017 at 5:57 PM, Goldmoon said:

 

Other than his privilege, I don't understand what Rory sees in Logan.

 

There were scenes to establish why Rory was into Logan.  Rory was the star of a party Richard and Emily threw, to show off their granddaughter to a bunch of young men they felt would be more suitable than Dean for the world Rory was becoming a part of, as a Yale student.  Rory got cornered by some guy she clearly wasn't interested in, and Logan swooped in and put his arm around her to act like she was already taken (she was, but not by him). Then he said he "hates" parties like these - something Lorelai or Chris would say. Then, later that evening, Logan and friends witness Dean dump Rory, and decide to cheer her up.

She finds out, while writing for the YDN, that when Logan isn't partying and bedding women, he's a talented writer.  She hopes to get invited to an event he's going to in NY, featuring a famous writer. And when she spends the weekend with the LDB for the story she's writing and declines to do the big jump, Logan speaks of writers who experienced what they wrote, who really lived. He encouraged/pushed her to get out of her comfort zone and have experiences that would enhance her writing.  She was also attracted to him, both physically and to his ability to charm (including her grandparents, which Dean and Jess  didn't do for obvious reasons).

Contrast that with Dean working at the marketing and saying "I like everything you write" when Rory asked for a critique of a story.  He didn't know anything about writing or journalists.  Young Jess was well read and snarky, but had too many self-esteem issues, and anger toward his mother, to be mature in his relationship with Rory.  I think Adult Jess - the guy who encouraged her in the revival - could absolutely be her intellectual equal and encourage her like Logan did, minus the smarm and cheating that accompanied Logan.

[tennisgurl]

On 8/31/2017 at 3:36 AM, timimouse said:

So I'm watching 'Pulp Friction' and it reminded me how much I despise the way in which Lorelai mocks cultures that.... aren't hers?

Yeah, one of the least likable and strangest qualities of Rory and Lorealai is their constant mockery of peoples interests, hobbies, and cultures, even when they're own hobbies and interests are quite odd and niche. They arent aggressively nasty about other cultures or anything, but they do tend to look at others peoples cultures and stuff as very weird and from a stereotypical lens, and they're even worse when it comes to making fun of peoples likes and hobbies. Not only is anything "mainstream" instantly stupid and worthy of mocking and condescension, but so are plenty of hobbies that are just as offbeat as the stuff they like (Luke liking Reggie music, their constant mocking of the birdwatchers they met at the BnB, etc.), which is so weird to me because they're own likes are so quirky. I just dont get why watching crappy made for TV movies is so much less lame bird watching or something, or why the quirky people they made fun of are so much less dorky than the townies they love. I guess it just comes down to "What we like is good, and if we dont like it or dont get it or thinks we are too cool for it, its LAME and the person who likes it deserves to be mocked. But God help you if YOU dislike some of the delightful quirks of the Gilmore Girls! 

Edited September 6, 2017 by tennisgurl

[andromeda331]

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 3:36 AM, timimouse said:

So I'm watching 'Pulp Friction' and it reminded me how much I despise the way in which Lorelai mocks cultures that.... aren't hers? Case in point: The Reggae Fever CD in Luke's truck -_-. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it being a born and bred Caribbean woman (where I still currently reside) and I LOVE reggae music. Firstly, the songs and artists named were made up. They never invent the names of movies/ rock music or actors and other singers that they mock, so the reggae wasn't worth researching? Secondly, I don't wear knit caps and smoke ganja just because I listen to reggae and Luke saying that he "didn't adopt the entire Rastafarian culture" was actually very stereotypical. Lastly, to imply that every reggae song sounds the same is very insulting.

I'm not just saying this about the reggae though. Just using that as an example. Her insistence to not try / turn up her nose at any other kinds of foods (escargot, sushi, etc.) seems so bizarre from someone coming from such a cultured world. She left at 16, not 6. They must've exposed her to things most people can't afford. Is her mocking of it just another way of rebelling against her parents and "their world"?

Sorry, after typing this I realized it may have been better suited in the Lorelai thread, but it was sparked by this particular episode.

 

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 6:39 AM, deaja said:

Agreed, @timimouse.  Their views on cultures were awful, but even their views on pop culture grated.  They often watched ridiculous movies taped off of tv, but then made fun of any mainstream music?  They were snobs in so many ways.

 

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 7:53 AM, Katy M said:

I have a lot less problem about her razzing Luke, a close friend, about Reggae, then I do when they get snobby with acquaintances, or people they're not friends with.  Obviously, people like what they like, and don't like what they don't like, and think their tastes are more rational. That's just human nature.  And razzing a friend in a good-natured way is not a problem, IMO.  But, for instance, Jess rolling his eyes at Lindsay, a girl he barely knew, I think, because she liked Matchbox 20 is just rude.  There are other examples, but that's the one I remember, because I always feel in any situation, Lindsay go the short end of the stick on the show.

 

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 4:51 AM, Frelling Tralk said:

I agree they were snobbish about anyone who didn't listen to their kind of of music, and they actually only watched a lot of tv and films to make fun of them. The first time we get an episode focused on Lorelai and Rory watching tv, Dean is puzzled at how they just mock the show and make up their own supposedly wittier dialogue, and Rory is surprised that Dean would enjoy The Donna Reed Show in a non-ironic way 

So true! That's why one of my favorite scenes is when Lane's cousin takes off her shirt and has an Avril Lavigne t-shirt, Lane's shocked by her double dressing and Avril Lavigne. Her cousin immediately goes off on how Avril Lavigne rocks and that Lane's a snob. It was awesome. I wish someone had done that to Rory and Lorelai over their taste in music.

[Kohola3]

Let me say from the get-go, that I am not a Rory fan.  Not in the Original Recipe and certainly not in the remake.  But Making Whoopie was on today and I (figuratively) stood up and cheered at the dressing down she gave Lorelai when it came out that her mom had slept with her Christolooser the very night she broke up with Luke.  Way to go, girl!

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

But Making Whoopie was on today and I (figuratively) stood up and cheered at the dressing down she gave Lorelai when it came out that her mom had slept with her Christolooser the very night she broke up with Luke.  Way to go, girl!

Was this the episode where she asked if Lorelai put a mannequin in the car so she could use the carpool lane to get over there faster?  (Or something along those lines, ha.)  I have never laughed so hard at anything Rory said, ever.

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Was this the episode where she asked if Lorelai put a mannequin in the car so she could use the carpool lane to get over there faster?

Yep.  And it was a great dressing down;  she pulled no punches and let Lorelai have it.  Which is what I wanted to do with that whole ridiculous plot line.

[AsYouWish]

I completely get why that was satisfying! Rory criticizing anyone else's ethics and conduct when it comes to romantic relationships was just a little too "pot, meet kettle" for me since by then she'd already slept with married Dean, deliberately gone to visit Jess in Philadelphia so she could kiss him and therefore get back at Logan, kissed Jess and strung Dean on forever back when she was dating Dean the first time around and more. And revival Rory was outrageously awful in that department, cheating constantly on kind and totally in the dark Paul while letting him think he was her boyfriend for reasons I still don't get, sleeping randomly wth the wookie she just met just in case we thoght she was cheating "only" with Logan. not minding in the slightest that Logan was engaged the whole time she was flying out there to have sex with him, and I have to stop myself now before my annoyance with the show starts to outweight my affection for it! 

I was rewatching a lot of favorite individual scenes this week, which seems to work for me better than trying to watch full episodes and invariably getting frustrated all over again with way too many aspects of this show. I was struck again by how great I think Lorelai and Luke could have been. They had such a powerful connection that first season and through some of Season 2 and a lot of Season 4 too. A lot of sparks, tension and humor came from how different they are on the surface, but what really got me and presumably some of their other fans were the moments when we see how well they connect and understand each other despite those differences, and how maybe they weren't in fact that different after all.

Like many of you have discussed, the writers could have used a pairing between two people who seem opposite to show how they complement each other and fit together because each has what the other is lacking, like puzzle pieces that connect perfectly because one zigs just where the other zags. The writers could have shown how these two very flawed but good people challenged each other to be better, like with Luke bringing out the more down to earth, calm and stable aspects of Lorelai and Lorelai bringing out the more extroverted, fun-loving and less change-phobic side of Luke.

The writers could have shown us the ways that they're actually more alike than people would suspect. For starters, they are both, often by decisions of their own making, fundamentally lonely people who have trouble fitting in to most of the environments they were a part of. Instead, the Gilmore Girls writers chose to keep showing us how Luke and Lorelai's differences left them unable to communicate and understand each other. LL were extremely close friends before dating, but viewers first tuning in during Season 5 could be forgiven for thinking these two were still relative strangers who had no emotional history at all and had never learned anything about each other or practiced having an actual conversation. And viewers first tuning in to Season 6 could very reasonably have concluded that we were not supposed to root for this couple at all. 

LL just could and should have been so much more! I'll try to find the silver lining by reminding myself that ASP's many mistakes inspire more and better fanfic because viewers can't resist the urge to try to give LL the love they should have had on screen. 

[junienmomo]

16 hours ago, AsYouWish said:

 

I completely get why that was satisfying! Rory criticizing anyone else's ethics and conduct when it comes to romantic relationships was just a little too "pot, meet kettle" for me since by then she'd already slept with married Dean, deliberately gone to visit Jess in Philadelphia so she could kiss him and therefore get back at Logan, kissed Jess and strung Dean on forever back when she was dating Dean the first time around and more.

 

Yes!

i was just reading the fanfic Lost Boys (AU, definitely interesting), Jess told Luke that Rory kissed him, then went to Washington and never contacted him at all. 

Thats when it clicked for me that AYITL Rory was not out of character. She was pretty much amoral when it came to relationships except for her shock at the bridesmaids business. That was probably simply hypocritical.

[voiceover]

Ugh. "Keg!Max!" belongs in the book of TV Tropes, the section on Romance, the chapter heading: "I don't love you & I never did, but I demand you adore me."

Sometimes I just wished someone would have told her to go piss up a rope.

[voiceover]

"The Reigning Lorelai" has some of my favorite Emily moments.  She's a funny drunk.  It's one of those times that shows exactly what Lorelai inherited from her mother.  Sadly, Emily goes on to forget how that whole incident made her feel, & revisits, more or less, the sentiments of The Letter onto Luke.

Some nice moments, but also some ugh! ones.  Like Rory making the death all about her & her lack of reax (only to be reassured by her mom that that proved she was the bestest great-granddaughter evah).

And while Richard's mother was...interesting, the stories that were told about her (that letter, billing the policemen, dragging the Bedouin behind the camel in her haste to get to the Pyramids) did not have the desired effect.  She should have been Maggie Smith from Downton Abbey.  Instead we got a cartoon Disney villain.

Edited October 2, 2017 by voiceover
Wrong 1st responders

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Like Rory making the death all about her & her lack of reax

to be fair, IIRC, Rory kept that all away from Richard.  She's allowed to feel how she feels and to feel guilty about what she feels guilty about, as long as she's not taking focus away from others.  Since, she only brought this up to Lorelai and Doyle, I don't see the big deal.

[andromeda331]

UP channel had They Shoot Gilmores, Don't They? I love the table conversation with Emily, Lorelai and Rory as Lorelai talks about finding her dance partner, and then Emily trying to cheer Lorelai up when she got the phone call of him bailing. Telling her she could make her asparagus talk. It was really sweet and very unEmily like. I wish we had more nice scenes between Emily and Lorelai.

[jaylee-03031]

I have been watching Season 2 and I love Jess and Rory together.  I love their scenes together on the bridge after Jess bid on her basket and the scene when they were in the car in Teach Me Tonight before the car accident.  In the car accident episode, I love how Luke found Jess on that same bridge, told him he knew that Jess made sure Rory was okay, and then sat next to Luke. I love the Luke/Jess relationship too.  In that scene, you could feel the love Luke has for Jess even though he didn't say it and the way he just sat next to Jess was so sweet and I bet Jess found it comforting even though he would never admit it.  I think Jess finally found someone stable who truly love him in Luke.  Anyway, I have been thinking about what drove Jess's decision to leave town after the accident and wondering what other readers think about it.  Did Jess leave because he felt so bad and guilty about the accident even though it wasn't his fault  that he wanted to leave or was it because he knew everyone in the town would come down on Luke and wanted to spare Luke that by leaving first before the town could demand he leave.  The town already blasted Luke after Jess drew that chalk outline on the sidewalk (which by the way  I thought was funny).  Also, I get Lorelai being upset that her daughter was in accident but the way she went off on Luke was so inappropriate and over the top.  She was just terrible in that scene and she reminded me of Emily when she was at the hospital and talking to the staff there.  I also thought Lorelai seemed to be warming up a little to Jess in the Lost and Found episode until she went off on him at the end and called him a little jerk.  He was a teenager and teenagers do dumb things not beause they are being cruel but because they are confused and immature.  He didn't steal Rory's bracelet.  She dropped and yes he picked it up but I think it was more as a reminder of their date than anything else.  He was even holding it when Rory called him.  It's not like he ripped it off her wrist or stole it off her dresser or something.  

On 11/3/2017 at 10:33 PM, andromeda331 said:

UP channel had They Shoot Gilmores, Don't They? I love the table conversation with Emily, Lorelai and Rory as Lorelai talks about finding her dance partner, and then Emily trying to cheer Lorelai up when she got the phone call of him bailing. Telling her she could make her asparagus talk. It was really sweet and very unEmily like. I wish we had more nice scenes between Emily and Lorelai.

So do I.  I also loved it when they went out to dinner when they were on their spa weekend.  They actually had fun together and bonded a little until Emily felt uncomfortable about dancing with another man and blamed her daughter.  I loved how they stole their spa towels, lol.  They had said such a complicated relationship but the love was still there.  I also loved the little scenes where Lorelai visited her after class and sat with her while Emily worked in her garden or when Lorelai bought Emily a DVD player and DVDs.  Those scenes were just really touching.

[chitowngirl]

I liked the scenes where Emily and Lorelai talk about people they know, like which family member to kick into the annex vault. It's like they have their own shorthand about family. And how Richard comes in and agrees with them for the same reason.

[andromeda331]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 8:55 PM, jaylee-03031 said:

So do I.  I also loved it when they went out to dinner when they were on their spa weekend.  They actually had fun together and bonded a little until Emily felt uncomfortable about dancing with another man and blamed her daughter.  I loved how they stole their spa towels, lol.  They had said such a complicated relationship but the love was still there.  I also loved the little scenes where Lorelai visited her after class and sat with her while Emily worked in her garden or when Lorelai bought Emily a DVD player and DVDs.  Those scenes were just really touching.

I loved Lorelai bringing the DVD play and DVDs, and her smile when Emily's looking through them and sees one she loves and says so. I love Lorelai coming by to "hang" with her mom. Emily looked so surprised and a little pleased at the idea of her daughter just dropping by. I so wish we had more of those scenes. The two of them awkwardly coming together and maintaining a relationship. Similar to how Lane and Mrs. Kim finally came together but their own way. 

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I liked the scenes where Emily and Lorelai talk about people they know, like which family member to kick into the annex vault. It's like they have their own shorthand about family. And how Richard comes in and agrees with them for the same reason.

I love that scene! I re-watch it all the time. The whole thing is awesome beginning with Emily asking Lorelai about her ever getting married. So you think Emily's going in a completely different direction and clearly so does Lorelai, then says she was visiting the family mausoleum. Lorelai's surprised "Never what you think its going to be" then immediately votes for moving Aunt Cecile. From that scene and Lorelai's remark to Rory when she was calling relatives to try and return the ice cream maker that she was finding out her parents were the normal ones. I almost wish we had gotten to meet a few other Gilmore relatives. 

[Frelling Tralk]

I loved those scenes with Lorelai and Emily bonding too, it felt like the show was gradually working on them becoming a little closer during seasons 1-3, it was a shame how by season 5 the show decided to villainize Emily instead, and then the revival reinforces that they were still stuck in the same patterns and their relationship was never really going to improve 

[voiceover]

Anybody else dipping into the UP channel all-153 eps screening?  I’m actually enjoying it.  Every time I leave and come back, there they are!

Sadly, I am forced to miss two of my favorites: Liz & TJ’s Renaissance Wedding (love that song L&L dance to!), and “Raincoats & Recipes” (because of that kiss!).

A reminder how they blew it with Emily and Luke.  Such a lovely convo during Richard’s first hospital stay (“He would’ve called me a damn fool.”), and then: nothing but snotty (her) and inept (him) exchanges.  Why did Lorelai — who knew about Gran’s letter! — never throw that in her mother’s face?  She had a ton of support for the “See how it hurts when your MIL thinks you’re not good enough” argument.

And why didn’t Rory just tell Emily that she had to leave early to pack for Yale? FFS.  Another one of those stupidly obvious solutions that pass by otherwise intelligent TV characters.

[voiceover]

“The Incredible Shrinking Lorelais” is one of my favorite eps.  Lots of conflict, plus it ends with Lorelai weeping in Luke’s arms, which was as close as we were going to get for awhile.

It reminds me of what a truly horrible person, was Richard’s mother.  Rude for the sake of rude, supposedly passed off as old lady truthteller.  A complete lack of graciousness.

But it did give rise to two of Emily’s best one-liners:

”For God’s sake, Jason, just be ‘young’!”

[He looks like Adolphe Menjou]

”Or Adolphe Menjou’s drug dealer.”

Go Emily!! 

 

Katharine Hepburn, during an interview in the 70s (IIRC) said, “Some people get meaner in their old age.  I get nicer.”

Take a leaf, you bitch.

[andromeda331]

I do like Trix she was the one person who could really push Emily's buttons and it was fun to see Emily running around. But I did like how happy Emily was to see her mother-in-law finally get yelled at. I just wish it wasn't because Trix targeted Richard. But Richard finally standing up to his mother about how she treated his wife. 

I love this episode too. But Sookie always makes me mad. She created the entire problem with the sink and then instead owning up to it tries to blame Michel. I know she is a first time mom and I'd be more sympathetic being up all night long with her baby if she hadn't done either one. Then at the end telling Lorelai she wasn't suppose to do any of this stuff, that her part came after the inn was open. Really Sookie? You were expecting Lorelai to do every single thing until then? That's not fair. 

[Taryn74]

Everybody hates on Sookie for that scene, but honestly?  I sympathize.  I've had a baby not sleep at all, many a time, and it's hard to remember your own name when you get woken up after a night like that.  I fell asleep sitting straight up while nursing one of my babies one night, and when hubby got home the next morning and rang the doorbell and woke me up (he worked nights and I would set the alarm) I didn't even realize I left the baby laying asleep on a stack of pillows next to me until I stood up felt cold air hitting me where my nightgown was still open LOL.

Plus, the way Tom says "They won't even leave [the sink] without your approval" it sounds like he's being sarcastic.  I always forget he's being serious until they literally don't leave the sink and Lorelai goes off on Sookie about it.

I'm not saying Sookie was right and Lorelai was wrong for being upset, but I do sympathize.

[voiceover]

Watching the post-proposal (Zima, gazebo, kissing).  Wow.  Even better than I remembered.

Here’s a question for the thread: when did Luke say, “I love you”? When did Lorelai?  I’m embarrassed to say, I don’t remember.

[scarynikki12]

On screen, Luke's first time was that horrible Martha's Vineyard episode while Lorelai's was in the season 6 finale while she was giving him an ultimatum.  In both cases it was implied that they'd both said it to the other prior to those moments.  My guess is that they started saying it after their first reconciliation in season 5 but it's possible that they started after they got engaged.