Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Wellfleet]

Is he alright? I mean, did the doctor drop him on his head, at birth? He sounds as naive and immature and idealist as his teenager acting wife.

 

I think this is what happens when you shelter children too much. Seriously. As with everything, there is a line, and so many fundies cross it in this regard. We can't prepare children to work and live in the world if we keep them from seeing it, experiencing it, learning about it. Fundies are continually trying to shield and protect their kids but you have to experience some stress, some bad news, some disappointment, some rotten people as a child - so you're better able to cope as an adult.

[SometimesBites]

Is he alright? I mean, did the doctor drop him on his head, at birth? He sounds as naive and immature and idealist as his teenager acting wife.

That entire quote was like the written equivalent to the picture of the older boys/young men dressed up in their cowboy costumes. Wow.

[JoanArc]

 

Derick is too ugly for clandestine work.

Unremarkable looking people would make ideal spies. Who thinks twice about seeing average/below average people. God, if only he were overweight.

[Lillybee]

I thought that Jill and Derick were ok people until the stories of their grifting came out. If one want to be a missionary, be a missionary.

Do things for the people in the country that your are trying to convert; you might get results but handing out bibles is not the end of the worle.

[Purpose to defraud]

That entire quote was like the written equivalent to the picture of the older boys/young men dressed up in their cowboy costumes. Wow.

It was hard on him when his father died because he hadn't had a chance to tell him he wanted to try out for Pistol Pete. Wow.

[yogi2014L]

I'm sorry, but I cannot picture Jill as a law enforcement officer wife or a wife of someone who works for the FBI. I can picture her at a get together giggling, clinging to Derick's side, and talking with the other spouses especially the wives about how special she is because she gave birth to Izzy. I also cannot imagine the look on the other FBI staff face's when she shows up at lunch time to spend time with Derick every freaking day. Plus the embarrassment of being related to the Duggars.

Cop wife here, I totally 100 percent agree with you. LOL! My husband just got switched to midnights. Could you imagine Jilly muffin having to *GASP* be alone all night then not see Dillard during the day while he sleeps?! The Horror! She couldn't hack it. No way. 

 

And its really really sad and pathetic that Derick gave up his dream to pursue this ridiculous reality show life JIlly is living in. 

 

Perhaps he applied for the FBI and got rejected, then decided to vacation in Nepal. Its not that easy to become an officer ( though I can't really comment on FBI I don't know anything about it) but you do have to take  psych tests for regular police officer jobs and Derick has shown us time and time again that he is insane by playing along with BOOB

Edited October 7, 2015 by yogi2014L

[JoanArc]

 

Is this about Derick? Because AFAIK he wasn't reared like the Duggars. He went to school, and went to a real public university, and got a real degree. I don't think he was cloistered by his parents. His mother, as we know, worked outside the home and now runs her own business. He may have been shy around girls, and not a big player, but that's not the same as never having the slightest contact.

Should've been more clear - I meant romantically. But he didn't have a GF because he was Pete. Yeah, right.

[Churchhoney]

Edited to add: I realize that the comments were generally about an interview he did several years ago when in college, but plenty of kids sound naive and idealistic at that age and stage of life. Without having grown up in something as isolating as the Duggar home, or having been sequestered like the Duggar kids. 

 

Totally agree. ... I'm also not sure what's wrong with sounding idealistic. I still do, I think. And I actually believe it's one of my better qualities. Even at my advanced age!

[BitterApple]

Totally agree. ... I'm also not sure what's wrong with sounding idealistic. I still do, I think. And I actually believe it's one of my better qualities. Even at my advanced age!

I agree. I mean on the surface, Derick wanting to apply for the FBI isn't totally unrealistic. He has a degree and his degree is in a field that is desirable for that agency. He likely wouldn't have made it because they get tens of thousands of applications a year and the competition is fierce, but I don't think it's as ridiculous as someone like Josh or JD saying they want to become an agent.

[Lemur]

I agree. I mean on the surface, Derick wanting to apply for the FBI isn't totally unrealistic. He has a degree and his degree is in a field that is desirable for that agency. He likely wouldn't have made it because they get tens of thousands of applications a year and the competition is fierce, but I don't think it's as ridiculous as someone like Josh or JD saying they want to become an agent.

 

Hell, *I* applied to the FBI after college and I wasn't even an accountant.  And no, I did not get in.  I see nothing out of the ordinary with that sort of wild-eyed (in retrospect) optimism on the part of a college kid in his position.  I just can't help but wonder what led him from there to  ... well, being a fake missionary reality tv star.

[BitterApple]

Hell, *I* applied to the FBI after college and I wasn't even an accountant. And no, I did not get in. I see nothing out of the ordinary with that sort of wild-eyed (in retrospect) optimism on the part of a college kid in his position. I just can't help but wonder what led him from there to ... well, being a fake missionary reality tv star.

Lol, he reminds me of Jackie from the sitcom Roseanne, how she was always so flighty and making these drastic career changes. She was a factory worker, perfume salesgirl, cop, truck driver and restaurant owner. So far Derick has been an entry level accountant, a fake missionary and a z-list reality star. I wonder what's next...

[Lemur]

Lol, he reminds me of Jackie from the sitcom Roseanne, how she was always so flighty and making these drastic career changes. She was a factory worker, perfume salesgirl, cop, truck driver and restaurant owner. So far Derick has been an entry level accountant, a fake missionary and a z-list reality star. I wonder what's next...

 I'm going with Butler.

 

He looks like Lurch. 

[Churchhoney]

Hell, *I* applied to the FBI after college and I wasn't even an accountant.  And no, I did not get in.  I see nothing out of the ordinary with that sort of wild-eyed (in retrospect) optimism on the part of a college kid in his position.  I just can't help but wonder what led him from there to  ... well, being a fake missionary reality tv star.

 

My guess is that as a young kid he might have dreamed of being either a missionary or a cop (or, being a young kid, dreamed of being both: The Adventures of Missionary Agent! -- it could be a tv show). And then after his dad died the law-enforcement idea might have strengthened for a while as he thought about him and what he might do in his life to kind of memorialize him, make him proud. And then maybe he either applied to the FBI and didn't make it, or started thinking about the job in more detail and realized that maybe Pistol Pete's gun was about his speed, when it came to being a tough guy. (That might be some of what he was sorting through in the famous "missing year' between college and Nepal.)

 

And then when the agent dream died, the old missionary dream resurfaced. Of course, that's a tough road, too -- especially when you've already graduated from college but don't have any of the coursework you'll need to actually work under the mission board's auspices -- and might have disheartened him a bit. And maybe he was a bit of a leghumper, so he reached out to the Duggars -- with their hearts for mission and all -- thinking that maybe they could help him along somehow (after all, they live close by to where he and his family lived). And Jim Bob smelled a person who'd let JB and M push him around, pushed a daughter or two out there for inspection. (Maybe JB even dangled in front of Derick the idea that he was hooked up with some "missionaries" who might be able to help him get on track.)  And, voila, Derick became a Duggar. And -- as I explained ad nauseam elsewhere -- I don't think Derick is a particularly strong or confident person. So, once he was subsumed into the Duggars, he really got subsumed into the Duggars.

 

That's my non-fan-but-nevertheless-obsessive fictionalization of events, anyway.

 

Speaks of how difficult it actually is to be an idealist -- and then try to live in keeping with your ideals, I expect.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Churchhoney

[JoanArc]

 I'm going with Butler.

 

He looks like Lurch. 

Got you beat....Bond Villian. This makes Jill Pussy Galore.

[GeeGolly]

All this has me curious about the Dillard Family Ministry. I found this article about establishing a religous non-profit: https://destinymap.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/how-to-finance-your-ministry/ 

 

One part I found very interesting was this:

"A Budget is Not the Boogey Man!

Budgeting is the planning process of estimating the finances you will need to pursue and reach your mission and goals. Don’t let the budget boogey man intimidate you; a financial plan can be a great help. For example, try publishing your budget on your internet site and invite your core group, friends, family, and supporters to participate to help “author” the budget. A website is a great way to communicate your financial needs; it also provides motivation and momentum for your supporters to feel they are an important part of accomplishing your ministry mission. Getting folks involved in the budget strategizing process also gets them more excited about paying the bills!"

 

I was also wondering if by becoming a family ministry, that could change their Visa request status, and not need the support of a previously established church? 

[Wellfleet]

Is this about Derick? Because AFAIK he wasn't reared like the Duggars. He went to school, and went to a real public university, and got a real degree. I don't think he was cloistered by his parents. His mother, as we know, worked outside the home and now runs her own business. He may have been shy around girls, and not a big player, but that's not the same as never having the slightest contact.

 

 

 

 

Yep. I can't believe he buys into all the fringe Duggar ideas even if he knows to STFU about stuff like their ever-changing dress code. (It's a long way from those frumpers to Jessa's prominent pregnant belly selfies. Thank goodness.)

 

 

 

 

Do we know just how "sheltered" he was? I mean, he went to college at a big public university out of state from his home. He was Pistol Pete, and I don't think OSU athletic events could possibly be mistaken for Baptist choir practice. Just saying. And he spent a year in Nepal. On his own. No mommy to hold his hand or run interference from him daily or protect him from "bad influences." 

 

It's interesting to me that in discussing Derick's early life and school years, we seem to be assuming he also "grew up Duggar" or "grew up Gothard," when the evidence such as it is, suggests that's not true.

 

Edited to add: I realize that the comments were generally about an interview he did several years ago when in college, but plenty of kids sound naive and idealistic at that age and stage of life. Without having grown up in something as isolating as the Duggar home, or having been sequestered like the Duggar kids. 

 

My own personal guess is that no, Derick was not nearly as isolated and sheltered as the Duggars. I think he went to "real" school, had friends other than his brother, participated in Boy Scouts etc. I agree that idealistic is fine too - probably even the norm for people his age. Hopefully anyway. But everything we hear and see from the past makes him sound so incredibly innocent, so naive. To start with, it sounds as though he married the very first girl he ever "went out with..." Maybe there were girls before, but I'm guessing we'd had heard something if there had been. Even if only as a way for him to say how wonderful it was to find his soulmate in Jill. I read the entire OSU oral history interview - major snore - and Derick comes off as Colonel Homespun Corn-Pone from start to finish. To actually believe that even accountants at the FBI would rate a firearm is extremely naive, IMO. I don't expect him to be a savvy street-smart punk in any way, but from what we've been "shown" about Derick via TLC and social media, it does seem reasonable to assume that he hasn't exactly experienced much of the real world and its many problems. Princess Diana realized how important it was for her boys to know BOTH billionaires with yachts - who can write checks to help fund charities - and the homeless people living under bridges who would need those charities. They needed to see how everyone lived, not just the people they'd mostly be associating with. But most fundies seem to do all they can to shield their kids from everything that's unpleasant or ugly in the world.
 And that's not how problems get solved.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Churchhoney]

But most fundies seem to do all they can to shield their kids from everything that's unpleasant or ugly in the world.
 And that's not how problems get solved.

 

Good post.

 

I don't think you'd be attracted to this very prescriptive, intrusive, paint-by-numbers form of religion unless you were a pretty fearful person in some way. And if you're fearful enough, then the answer is just to shield yourself from everything, I think.

 

I think we actually may see evidence of that kind of thing when we look at all the big religions of the world -- they all seem to break down into various sects, many of which vary a lot in how restrictive and prescriptive they are. And I'd bet that when people actually opt for one or the other they do it on the basis of the needs of their individual personalities. (doesn't hold for those born into one branch of other, of course)

Edited October 7, 2015 by Churchhoney

[flyingdi]

I just don't think Derick was looking for a wife, he was looking for a father figure. I think he really lost his way when he lost his father. Jill was just a bonus of hitching his wagon to Jim Bob's. Lord knows Jim Bob always has room for another kid(follower).

[kokapetl]

At the very least, Derick seems to have wanted some sort of instant family and the Duggars could give him that.

[cmr2014]

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2443503/jill-duggar-asked-to-return-donations-by-angry-supporters-of-dillard-family-ministries/

 

This link was posted yesterday and includes a screen-grab of a comment: "If you guys are going to have multiple children do you really think others should be supporting them financially?"

 

If they do -- really -- want to do missionary work, they will need the support of main-line evangelicals, not just Quiverfulls. In my experience, evangelicals do NOT support large families. The most common put-down about Catholics that I've heard (even more than "they worship statues") is "they have too many children." If begging for cash for missionary work is going to be their main source of income, they will be seriously hampered by a large family.

 

I don't think that Jill can really understand this, but Derick should be able to wrap his head around the idea that working people are not going to send them money if all of the money is going to feed and clothe their enormous family and not to people in need. If they want a mega-family, then Derick is going to have to find a job that will support them all.

[Julia]

Okay, this is admittedly adorable... but it proves that they're still in the U.S.  *sigh*

 

https://www.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial/videos/vb.510067475793573/721410551325930/?type=2&theater

 

OK, I admit to being a little touched by that, because I used to do baby-ups.

[momofsquid]

Dadofsquid used to do that with squid's big sister and ended up with spitup in his mouth. That's all I could think of while watching. Jilly, don't laugh with your mouth open!

[CofCinci]

That's the Duggar warehouse. I wonder if they're staying in the guest quarters in the same building.

[Sew Sumi]

I bet they're at the Pool House. It was Duggar property in mid/late September. That gave them time to store their junk in one of Boob's myriad warehouses and live in what likely amounts to another furnished living quarters.

[queenanne]

Is this about Derick? Because AFAIK he wasn't reared like the Duggars. He went to school, and went to a real public university, and got a real degree. I don't think he was cloistered by his parents. His mother, as we know, worked outside the home and now runs her own business. He may have been shy around girls, and not a big player, but that's not the same as never having the slightest contact.

 

 

 

 

Yep. I can't believe he buys into all the fringe Duggar ideas even if he knows to STFU about stuff like their ever-changing dress code. (It's a long way from those frumpers to Jessa's prominent pregnant belly selfies. Thank goodness.)

 

 

 

 

Do we know just how "sheltered" he was? I mean, he went to college at a big public university out of state from his home. He was Pistol Pete, and I don't think OSU athletic events could possibly be mistaken for Baptist choir practice. Just saying. And he spent a year in Nepal. On his own. No mommy to hold his hand or run interference from him daily or protect him from "bad influences." 

 

It's interesting to me that in discussing Derick's early life and school years, we seem to be assuming he also "grew up Duggar" or "grew up Gothard," when the evidence such as it is, suggests that's not true.

 

Edited to add: I realize that the comments were generally about an interview he did several years ago when in college, but plenty of kids sound naive and idealistic at that age and stage of life. Without having grown up in something as isolating as the Duggar home, or having been sequestered like the Duggar kids. 

 

 

I absolutely think the chances are high that Derrick is mainstream whitebread Christian.  I bet his most conservative point of view pre-marriage, is that he probably also believes in "courtship not dating", which isn't niche to Duggar-brand fundies.

[JoanArc]

That's a big home gym with a lot of equipment, yet on the show all they showed was a treadmill in the TTH's mudroom Michelle claimed to run on.

[doodlebug]

That's a big home gym with a lot of equipment, yet on the show all they showed was a treadmill in the TTH's mudroom Michelle claimed to run on.

And doesn't that just about sum up the whole show?  We were only shown the surface while the real truth of their lives was hidden from view.  Their religious beliefs, their childrearing, their ugly secrets.  The fully equipped home gym was the least of it.

Edited October 8, 2015 by doodlebug

[CofCinci]

That's a big home gym with a lot of equipment, yet on the show all they showed was a treadmill in the TTH's mudroom Michelle claimed to run on.

Michelle is too lazy to walk down the hill to the family gym.

[Defrauder]

I wonder if Derick originally had his sights on Jana but after a year or so of JB prayer partnering that fell through so he settled for Jill.  Maybe JB couldn't spare Jana as household slave so he figured he'd unload Jill and get some wedding ratings for his show.  Or maybe Jana doesn't want 20 kids so she's patiently waiting for her bio clock to keep ticking and run out.  

[Purpose to defraud]

Okay, this is admittedly adorable... but it proves that they're still in the U.S.  *sigh*

 

https://www.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial/videos/vb.510067475793573/721410551325930/?type=2&theater

I wonder what their options are now. Did they really only have a 90 day visa? I also wonder why they went on pretending right up to the minute they were outed that they were leaving on a mission. Maybe they have another path to that goal. TLC? I'm sure some of you have better information about this than I.

[Defrauder]

Can I go on a mission to Arkansas to save and correct the Duggars (except JB & Michelle) and teach them the error of their ways?

[JoanArc]

I wonder what their options are now. Did they really only have a 90 day visa? I also wonder why they went on pretending right up to the minute they were outed that they were leaving on a mission. Maybe they have another path to that goal. TLC? I'm sure some of you have better information about this than I.

Wouldn't being filmed there be considered work? At least Jill can't deliver babies with that visa.

[Defrauder]

Would Jill deliver a baby from a Catholic mother?  What about delivering a baby from a mother who is an atheist, or a Hindu or any number of other beliefs?  Is she only delivering babies for the army of God that she believes in?  Do the expectant parents have to convert first to her beliefs?  Not that I think she is suitable to deliver a baby but she obviously believes she can so would she consider delivering a baby born to parents of another religious belief?  What then - would she be helping to build an army for a different religion?  I want to know.

[doodlebug]

Would Jill deliver a baby from a Catholic mother?  What about delivering a baby from a mother who is an atheist, or a Hindu or any number of other beliefs?  Is she only delivering babies for the army of God that she believes in?  Do the expectant parents have to convert first to her beliefs?  Not that I think she is suitable to deliver a baby but she obviously believes she can so would she consider delivering a baby born to parents of another religious belief?  What then - would she be helping to build an army for a different religion?  I want to know.

My guess is that Jill intends to cater to other fundies.  I know of a few lay midwives who are of similar religious persuasion and they tend to do deliveries for other members of their churches, etc. Their midwifery care, such as it is, is liberally peppered with their fundiness, praise the Lord, just as the 'curriculum' from the Christian lay midwifery school in Texas that Jill used has a large portion of study based on Biblical themes surrounding childbirth.  In other words, its doubtful any non-fundy would ever hear about Jill's midwifery practice, let alone actually seek her out for care.

 

IMO, there is no way that Jill doesn't plan to attend Jessa's delivery, I suspect TLC wants her front and center so we can all appreciate her amazing midwifery skills.  (warning: I did deliver two of my sister's kids, so I do have very specific and personal feelings about this). Anyway, Jessa is 37 weeks pregnant, full term, as of tomorrow.  I think its becoming clearer and clearer that Jill ain't going nowhere until the kiddo comes, which means she is probably in Arkansas for another month and a half or so, if Jessa goes overdue.  No way she can fly back from Central America in time to look like she supervised the birth on short notice, she's got to hang around Tonitown for the duration at this point, IMO..  So what was that 'going-away party' that the Dullards just threw for themselves about?  Other than a fake filming opportunity and a chance to scam some more cash and food from their supporters?

 

For those who haven't been keeping track, it is now about 15 weeks since the Dullards first embarked on their 'mission' to Latin America.  They have spent about 6 weeks, total, down there and about 9 weeks in the USA, mostly in Arkansas, since then.  In what universe does this constitute an actual mission?  By the time Jessa delivers and they actually leave, they will most likely have spent more than 75% of their 'mission' at home.

 

*** I am a board certified OB/GYN in practice for almost a decade when I delivered my nephew.  He was born in a birthing room in the L&D unit of a real hospital with a pediatrician, obstetrician and anesthesiologist on site 24/7.  A close friend, a certified nurse midwife was there for the labor and delivery 'just in case' and another friend, also a board certified OB/GYN, was immediately available had she needed a cesarean, which I would never have done myself.  Also, it wasn't my sister's first child, she'd had an uncomplicated vaginal birth back when I was a resident.  I didn't do that one because I'd only done maybe 500 or so vaginal deliveries at that point and didn't feel comfortable with taking on my sister's care.

Edited October 8, 2015 by doodlebug

[Liz Tudor]

My guess is that the recent send-off "celebration" was solely for the TLC cameras and they have no intention to go back to CA anytime soon, especially with Jessa's impending labor & delivery (and we know Jill will be portrayed as instrumental in that). Since everything on "reality" shows is filmed out of sequence and then strung together to create a false timeline**, that farewell party will most likely be depicted as preceeding the Dullards' first trip to Central America back in June.

**Anytime I see an interview of someone who was on a "reality" show, they are always complaining about how events are filmed outside the true timeline and that things aren't shown as they really happened (in chronological order, or by tweaking/directing participants' reactions & relationships). Bless their hearts, they thought the whole reality experience really would be true and accurate!

[Tabbygirl521]

Nope. What Derick wanted to be is even funnier. Don't read the rest of this post unless you are prepared to donate $5 to your favorite non-Duggar charity if this makes you laugh.

"I want to get married and have a family and settle down somewhere and pursue my career. I will probably work somewhere, whether it’s an accounting firm or a company like Wal-Mart or something for a couple years, and then I want to apply to be an FBI agent. One of my friends told me that the FBI hires a lot of accountants, and I hadn’t really thought about that because you don’t really think about accountants being FBI agents and carrying a gun. I mean, it made sense to me especially after I got Pete. [He was the Pistol Pete mascot for OSU in college and got to fire a real gun with blanks during football games!] I already got a little gun handling experience. It may be a little different from being Pete, but I think it would be neat to work with them and get to be in law enforcement but also be in accounting."

You'll think I made that up. You just can't make this stuff up. It's beyond belief. This is from an interview with Derick while he was still in college. I'll post the link, but I guarantee it will bore you to death if you actually read it all. (Just do Ctrl F and search for FBI to find the quote.)

http://dc.library.okstate.edu/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/ostate/id/7778/rv/singleitem

That will be $5.

OMFG. I am dumbstruck. This sounds like an 8-year-old getting excited about being a fireman. He wants to be a pistol-packin' accountant? I hope he was being tongue-in-cheek about his Pistol Pete experience being a little different from being an FBI agent.

Good lord. I really did think at first that you were making this up!

[Readalot]

My guess is that Jill intends to cater to other fundies. I know of a few lay midwives who are of similar religious persuasion and they tend to do deliveries for other members of their churches, etc. Their midwifery care, such as it is, is liberally peppered with their fundiness, praise the Lord, just as the 'curriculum' from the Christian lay midwifery school in Texas that Jill used has a large portion of study based on Biblical themes surrounding childbirth. In other words, its doubtful any non-fundy would ever hear about Jill's midwifery practice, let alone actually seek her out for care.

IMO, there is no way that Jill doesn't plan to attend Jessa's delivery, I suspect TLC wants her front and center so we can all appreciate her amazing midwifery skills. (warning: I did deliver two of my sister's kids, so I do have very specific and personal feelings about this). Anyway, Jessa is 37 weeks pregnant, full term, as of tomorrow. I think its becoming clearer and clearer that Jill ain't going nowhere until the kiddo comes, which means she is probably in Arkansas for another month and a half or so, if Jessa goes overdue. No way she can fly back from Central America in time to look like she supervised the birth on short notice, she's got to hang around Tonitown for the duration at this point, IMO.. So what was that 'going-away party' that the Dullards just threw for themselves about? Other than a fake filming opportunity and a chance to scam some more cash and food from their supporters?

For those who haven't been keeping track, it is now about 15 weeks since the Dullards first embarked on their 'mission' to Latin America. They have spent about 6 weeks, total, down there and about 9 weeks in the USA, mostly in Arkansas, since then. In what universe does this constitute an actual mission? By the time Jessa delivers and they actually leave, they will most likely have spent more than 75% of their 'mission' at home.

*** I am a board certified OB/GYN in practice for almost a decade when I delivered my nephew. He was born in a birthing room in the L&D unit of a real hospital with a pediatrician, obstetrician and anesthesiologist on site 24/7. A close friend, a certified nurse midwife was there for the labor and delivery 'just in case' and another friend, also a board certified OB/GYN, was immediately available had she needed a cesarean, which I would never have done myself. Also, it wasn't my sister's first child, she'd had an uncomplicated vaginal birth back when I was a resident. I didn't do that one because I'd only done maybe 500 or so vaginal deliveries at that point and didn't feel comfortable with taking on my sister's care.

. *clapping* thank you doodlebug for your qualified insight! My Cimmon Sense meter went off through your whole post, sadly it never goes off when reading the facts of the Duggars et al actions.

[Churchhoney]

Back on the subject of Derick, I'm wondering whether he was not, in fact, working under IMB auspices in Nepal after all, in their Journeyman program. ... I've looked around on their website, and the question of appropriate visas really doesn't come up (suspiciously so, in my opinion). And it seems pretty clear that they would not try to get actual church vocation or other work visas for the people in this program, since they probably have enough trouble getting those for the full-fledged missionaries;

 

 

Seems to me that a lot of what they do say about this program fits very well with what Derick said he was doing. There are two or three kinds of work he might have been doing, and I think you could do any of them with a study visa -- either obtained because you're attending a Nepal school pretty much full time or because you're attending one of the part-time Nepalese school options, which I read elsewhere is what a lot of people do while they are also doing other things there, such as trekking or working part-time or as a volunteer with an NGO.

 

He might have done either one or some combination of these, I think, from his descriptions of his activities. This first one seems to pretty much amount to "socializing with Nepali students":

 

"University Ministry

As a part of the university team, you will seek to use all the resources that God has put at your disposal to engage your campus with the gospel in such a way as to result in transformed lives that will lead to a transformed society."

 

The next one would fit with his accountancy degree and also would fit the way he describes his Nepal work on his LinkedIn:

 

"Support Roles

Eighty percent of your time will utilize your giftedness and expertise to do financial and logistical tasks that free the rest of the Strategy missionary force to evangelize/disciple/train with 100 percent of their time. Support Role missionaries will spend at least 20 percent of their time Evangelizing/Disciplining/Training new believers to see a multitude from every language, tribe, people and nation have opportunity to know and worship our Lord Jesus Christ. All field personnel, whether they spend the majority of their time in support related service or evangelism and church planting ministries, are important, are needed, and are missionaries"

 

This one looks pretty purely social in nature, and also might fit what Derick described:

 

"Discipler/Trainer

You will initiate a strategy of sharing the Gospel with those who have never heard, using a variety of methodologies appropriate for the specific people group, i.e. Chronological Bible Storying. Your primary task is to find people who are open and receptive to the Gospel, and stay with them, leading them to place their faith in Christ. You will teach them from the very beginning to share Jesus with their family and friends, guiding them in how to share and how to pray for others."

 

Furthermore, I think that IMB basically acknowledges that in at least some countries they flat out bring in these Journeyman people on the downlow, because the countries are reluctant to allow it but IMB views their conversion activities as an absolutely essential part of their Christian calling. It's called "Creative Access."     And it might well account for why Derick does not mention his Nepal employer or give many details of his work on his LInkedIn. ... That might well be the IMB-suggested behavior for a Journeyman who's been in certain countries under the "creative access" approach, I expect. And from what I've read elsewhere about Nepali visas, lots of groups do have workers in the country without work visas: 

 

In other words, IMB brings in Journeyman under all kinds of guises when they're really there to act as missionaries:

 

"Creative Access

Creative Access helps you enter a culture that is closed to outsiders’ attempts to directly bring the Gospel to its people or is legally hesitant to allow an outsider to take up residence. Creative Access helps you get your foot in the door. Examples would be ESL training, sports, community development, business opportunities, etc."

 

http://www.imbstudents.org/programs/jman/Go_Journeyman.aspx#.VhaSsiuW4o1

 

All of this makes me pretty sure Derick was in Nepal working under IMB auspices, but that he was basically one of their stealth workers. To be non-stealth, he would need to enter the full-fledged missionary track. But he would need additional college coursework to do that. And, once he hooked up with Jill, he certainly found that she'd need a ton more academic work, too. So whether or not he and Jill would have been found acceptable to IMB on other grounds, they both had quite a road ahead of them to get the academic qualifications.

 

I don't think he was actively lying about his Nepal work. I think IMB instructed him to keep it quiet. As you would do if you were using "creative access." That just shows how extremely seriously the Baptists take their conversion mission, I think.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

OMFG. I am dumbstruck. This sounds like an 8-year-old getting excited about being a fireman. He wants to be a pistol-packin' accountant? I hope he was being tongue-in-cheek about his Pistol Pete experience being a little different from being an FBI agent.

Good lord. I really did think at first that you were making this up!

 

Of course this does appear to be a transcript of a taped interview. And transcripts of taped interviews do tend to sound pretty eight-year-oldish, no matter who's being interviewed, compared to written language. And this is a college publication, so I doubt that much cleaning up in the interest of making him sound smarter was done. So I think we need to let him off the hook a bit about that part. Plus, of course, a transcribed taped interview doesn't tell you anything about when the person was smiling or saying something somewhat tongue in cheek.

[BitterApple]

I agree the party was filmed strictly for content purposes. It makes no sense to have a 'going away party' a month before you actually leave. Considering they only gave people three days notice, I'm assuming most of the guests were local. It's not like Jill won't be running into them all over town within the next few weeks, so it was hardly a good-bye party.

[JenCarroll]

***

Furthermore, I think that IMB basically acknowledges that in at least some countries they flat out bring in these Journeyman people on the downlow, because the countries are reluctant to allow it but IMB views their conversion activities as an absolutely essential part of their Christian calling. It's called "Creative Access." And it might well account for why Derick does not mention his Nepal employer or give many details of his work on his LInkedIn. ... That might well be the IMB-suggested behavior for a Journeyman who's been in certain countries under the "creative access" approach, I expect. And from what I've read elsewhere about Nepali visas, lots of groups do have workers in the country without work visas:

***

All of this makes me pretty sure Derick was in Nepal working under IMB auspices, but that he was basically one of their stealth workers. To be non-stealth, he would need to enter the full-fledged missionary track. But he would need additional college coursework to do that. And, once he hooked up with Jill, he certainly found that she'd need a ton more academic work, too. So whether or not he and Jill would have been found acceptable to IMB on other grounds, they both had quite a road ahead of them to get the academic qualifications.

I don't think he was actively lying about his Nepal work. I think IMB instructed him to keep it quiet. As you would do if you were using "creative access."

***

And then appear on a reality TV show and loudly, repeatedly announce that you are in Nepal as a missionary? Was that maybe, possibly, not quite what IMB was expecting?

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head as to what he was doing on his mission, but it makes his subsequent activities even less fathomable.

Edited October 8, 2015 by JenCarroll

[Churchhoney]

And then appear on a reality TV show and loudly, repeatedly announce that you are in Nepal as a missionary? Was that maybe, possibly, not quite what IMB was expecting?

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head as to what he was doing on his mission, but it makes his subsequent activities seem even weirder than we already knew.

 

Yeah, it does. ... Did he mention IMB on the show, though? I gather there are numerous missionary as well as "missionary" groups in Nepal. So if he didn't actually name one, he might have figured it was okay ... and maybe it was, even.

[JoanArc]

 

And then appear on a reality TV show and loudly, repeatedly announce that you are in Nepal as a missionary? Was that maybe, possibly, not quite what IMB was expecting?

Self commissioned? Is Missionary a regulated term, or can you self-anoint? Like, can I start calling myself Sister Joan?

[Churchhoney]

Self commissioned? Is Missionary a regulated term, or can you self-anoint? Like, can I start calling myself Sister Joan?

 

No. But you can be "Creative Access Sister Joan."

 

Which means you are kinda sorta halfway commissioned as a Sister with training wheels. But if your halfway commissioner is questioned about, they'll deny it.

 

It's deep-cover conversion activity.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Julia]

Self commissioned? Is Missionary a regulated term, or can you self-anoint? Like, can I start calling myself Sister Joan?

 

If you call yourself latter day Saint Joan, you can probably get that accreditation taken care of.

[JoanArc]

So Creative Access Mother Superior to the closed PTV culture?

 

(Please donate to my mission. I accept all gift cards and food donations.)

Edited October 8, 2015 by JoanArc

[Oldernowiser]

I would have commented earlier, but I was busy utilizing my giftedness, by which I mean drinking a root beer and staring out the window. I believe that makes me a Liquid Provision Visionary.

(Seriously...what is with these people and their apparent terror of using simple, straightforward sentences???)

On another note...there was a woman in my area who dressed like a nun, called herself "Sister," but had never actually joined any sort of order. Basically she liked having her ass kissed, which just the clothes will get you.

Relevance to Jerick? They want to be treated like missionaries without having to do anything hard, like go to school, or, you know, help people.

[JenCarroll]

Yeah, it does. ... Did he mention IMB on the show, though? I gather there are numerous missionary as well as "missionary" groups in Nepal. So if he didn't actually name one, he might have figured it was okay ... and maybe it was, even.

Self commissioned? Is Missionary a regulated term, or can you self-anoint? Like, can I start calling myself Sister Joan?

I see both of your points, I just think once you go around announcing you're a missionary, it's not irrational to think people might start asking under whose auspices you were doing that.

Yes, anyone can go anywhere and call it a mission as far as U.S. law is concerned, but most of the "mission fields" are actually sovereign nations and they are likely to have their very own laws about who can live, work, or study there, and under what conditions. Countries that receive a lot of missionaries often do have a set legal definition of what constitutes a mission. I mean, this is what underlies that whole IMB "creative access" thing.

And absolutely you can call yourself Sister Anne (or Brother Anne, for that matter) all you like, right up until you start trying to claim tax exemptions. ;-) But if you were doing that in another country, you'd want to inquire about their policies.

Edited October 8, 2015 by JenCarroll

[JoanArc]

 

On another note...there was a woman in my area who dressed like a nun, called herself "Sister," but had never actually joined any sort of order. Basically she liked having her ass kissed, which just the clothes will get you.

Take note, Jill!

 

 

Relevance to Jerick? They want to be treated like missionaries without having to do anything hard, like go to school, or, you know, help people.

Same can be said for her entire family.

[barbedwire]

Or be told what to do.  Seems like the missionary board had a list of things they need you to complete, but no.  Derek had already been a missionary so they just wanted to go off and do their own thing.  Like JimBoob not going to a regular church and having a pastor and staff lead him.  NO!  He will do church where he is in charge.

Edited October 8, 2015 by barbedwire