Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Lady Whistleup]

I thought Derick looked visibly annoyed when Jill was so pressed about literal creationism. His position is one I'm familiar with. They think "six days" is more like a metaphor and "days" could mean eras that span millions of years. 

[rue721]

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Jill looked very pressed. Wonder if sometimes she resents him because he's so much more educated than her.

Interesting thought. Jill seems like the "good student" type and probably has a very hard time being reminded again and again that she was wrong about EVERYTHING. Not even her fault, it's just that everything her parents taught her was wrong. Talk about humbling.

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Interesting thought. Jill seems like the "good student" type and probably has a very hard time being reminded again and again that she was wrong about EVERYTHING. Not even her fault, it's just that everything her parents taught her was wrong. Talk about humbling.

It's going to be rougher when Izzy and Sam are both in school and she can't help them with their homework.

[rue721]

Just now, Lady Whistleup said:

It's going to be rougher when Izzy and Sam are both in school and she can't help them with their homework.

That's going to be uncomfortable for Izzy, too, because he's probably going to realize she's wrong before she does. It's not like Jill is going to know she's ignorant, like if a parent were asked to help a child do homework in a language they never learned or for a math class they never took. Jill is going to think she's been taught the "truth" about a lot of things and will have to be corrected, if only to keep Izzy from showing up at school spouting all kinds of embarrassing nonsense.

My hope is that it will inspire her to get more education for herself, but if she's still clinging to the idea that at least some of JB & M's "teachings" were correct, then that may be a long way off.

Suddenly, I'm seeing how difficult their marriage must be at times

[Minivanessa]

4 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I thought Derick looked visibly annoyed when Jill was so pressed about literal creationism. His position is one I'm familiar with. They think "six days" is more like a metaphor and "days" could mean eras that span millions of years. 

I agree with this. I think Derick must have seen the disconnect between his church's doctrine re creation, and the science he was learning in school. And it not being a hill he needed to die on (or have his faith destroyed for), he reconciled the matter that way and got on with things. 

4 hours ago, rue721 said:

Interesting thought. Jill seems like the "good student" type and probably has a very hard time being reminded again and again that she was wrong about EVERYTHING. Not even her fault, it's just that everything her parents taught her was wrong. Talk about humbling.

I kind of cringe to think of the limited range of subjects that must have constituted Jill's home schooling. She probably had creationism pushed hard at her, and the "pro life" agenda as well. Meanwhile, Derick as a public school student was taking the usual assortment of subjects so he had plenty of things to think about besides creationism.

I haven't looked at the Gothard homeschool curriculum. However, I wouldn't be surprised that even if it isn't heavily weighted to preach the Gothard Gospel, the Duggars would have used it that way.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Jeeves
simple sentences are better

[Lady Whistleup]

23 minutes ago, rue721 said:

That's going to be uncomfortable for Izzy, too, because he's probably going to realize she's wrong before she does. It's not like Jill is going to know she's ignorant, like if a parent were asked to help a child do homework in a language they never learned or for a math class they never took. Jill is going to think she's been taught the "truth" about a lot of things and will have to be corrected, if only to keep Izzy from showing up at school spouting all kinds of embarrassing nonsense.

My hope is that it will inspire her to get more education for herself, but if she's still clinging to the idea that at least some of JB & M's "teachings" were correct, then that may be a long way off.

Suddenly, I'm seeing how difficult their marriage must be at times

When Jill kept saying how much she "didn't want to talk about it" you could see Derick pressing his lips and looking like he was about to let out an exasperated sigh. It seemed like he was trying to gently tell her that you can believe in the Bible's creationism story while acknowledging that the Bible doesn't 'answer everything' and therefore that six days story doesn't have to be taken literally, but she wasn't having any of it. 

And yeah, all of a sudden I got a window into what day-to-day life with Jill might be like. When Derick said "I believe in gravity" you could kind of see a blank look wash over Jill.

[GeeGolly]

I wonder what Derick's and Jill's discussions look like when they're not filming. Does Jill shut up and listen? Does Derick get cagey and condescending? Do they both whip out their Bibles to prove their own points?

Derick may know more about math and science, but Jill likely knows more about what is in the Bible. Maybe Jill's interpretation is skewed, but so is Derick's.

Depending on how aware they are of what Izzy, and eventually Sammy, are learning, they may have to revisit this discussion again. And it may not be pretty.

[floridamom]

When Derick was describing the importance of a woman not totally depending on a man for her financial/life support; he was actually describing Jill's status. SHE is a woman who has no credible education; absolutely NO job experience and isn't trained to do anything that she may need to do if anything happened to Derick prematurely. I wonder if he has had this conversation with her in the past. Perhaps this is why she studied for that midwifery certificate she obtained. I think Derick was under the impression that is meant more than it actually did in the real work world.

 

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, floridamom said:

When Derick was describing the importance of a woman not totally depending on a man for her financial/life support; he was actually describing Jill's status. SHE is a woman who has no credible education; absolutely NO job experience and isn't trained to do anything that she may need to do if anything happened to Derick prematurely. I wonder if he has had this conversation with her in the past. Perhaps this is why she studied for that midwifery certificate she obtained. I think Derick was under the impression that is meant more than it actually did in the real work world.

 

I think he was definitely describing her situation, but I don't think that is the motivation for her getting the certificate. She got that back in 2015 when I think she was still very much not estranged from her family and was something she was working on even before she married Derick. I think it is more likely she got the certificate to make them more desirable as a package for their missionary organization to be sent to Danger America and that it represents a long-held interest for hers. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Zella

[rue721]

10 minutes ago, floridamom said:

When Derick was describing the importance of a woman not totally depending on a man for her financial/life support; he was actually describing Jill's status. SHE is a woman who has no credible education; absolutely NO job experience and isn't trained to do anything that she may need to do if anything happened to Derick prematurely. I wonder if he has had this conversation with her in the past. Perhaps this is why she studied for that midwifery certificate she obtained. I think Derick was under the impression that is meant more than it actually did in the real work world.

 

If Derick loves Jill or the boys, this must freak him out. His own mother was widowed fairly young and with sons to support as well as herself.

[GeeGolly]

15 minutes ago, floridamom said:

When Derick was describing the importance of a woman not totally depending on a man for her financial/life support; he was actually describing Jill's status. SHE is a woman who has no credible education; absolutely NO job experience and isn't trained to do anything that she may need to do if anything happened to Derick prematurely. I wonder if he has had this conversation with her in the past. Perhaps this is why she studied for that midwifery certificate she obtained. I think Derick was under the impression that is meant more than it actually did in the real work world.

 

I actually think Derick believes it is a real world certification.

Going to law school has made Derick more knowledgeable about law, but I think he's still pretty immature and stunted in regard to real life.

Edited March 22, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I actually think Derick believes it is a real world certification.

Going to law school has made Derick more knowledgeable about law, but I think he's still pretty immature and stunted in regard to real life.

Yeah didn't he once claim in Instagram comments that Jill probably had more college than the rest of us?

[GeeGolly]

Just to clarify my comment above...

I really don't think Derick and Jill have all these "intellectual" conversations where he's coming out on top. I doubt he is any smarter than Jill in the day to day scheme of life. I don't even think Derick thinks he is smarter than Jill. 

But I do think he has the potential to be arrogant talking to Jill, when he thinks he's right.

[QuinnInND]

What Jill learned at the SOTDRT was how to say "Perpendicular" and prejudice. 

[crazy8s]

1 hour ago, floridamom said:

When Derick was describing the importance of a woman not totally depending on a man for her financial/life support; he was actually describing Jill's status. SHE is a woman who has no credible education; absolutely NO job experience and isn't trained to do anything that she may need to do if anything happened to Derick prematurely. I wonder if he has had this conversation with her in the past. Perhaps this is why she studied for that midwifery certificate she obtained. I think Derick was under the impression that is meant more than it actually did in the real work world.

I thought that also was reference to Cathy and when her husband passed away she already had a job/ had skills to get a job and kept the family intact. Derick and Dan got through college while Cathy worked.

[Lady Whistleup]

Serious question: what job COULD Jill get? If Derick has his own law firm one day I suppose she could be trained to do some clerical work. But no degree of any sort, no job experience, no training ...

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

If Derick loves Jill or the boys, this must freak him out. His own mother was widowed fairly young and with sons to support as well as herself.

I distinctly got the impression that this is important to Derick, likely because of what his family went through.  Would not be surprised in the least to see him encouraging her out the door once Sam is in school all day to begin pursuing something in community college with an eye to getting at least her associate's and putting her foot into the work world.   Looks like that's going to be a hard fought battle.  I didn't get the impression Jill was as ready to embrace being a working mom the way she has wearing pants or having a cocktail.   I'm frankly amazed after watching this video that Israel is enrolled in school and Jill seems to be genuinely supporting it so far.

IMO it was clear in the video that when something crosses Jill's line she gets defensive and simply retreats to a position of because dogma, end of discussion.  She's so frightened to let go of a belief, even when she recognizes that she cannot defend it, so she never wants to discuss it.   It would be very interesting to watch her mind expand to embrace knowledge that she has no idea intersects with some of her beliefs and then when the intersection is in front of her watch her begin to grapple with integrating the newly acquired knowledge with scripture.      

[GeeGolly]

21 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Serious question: what job COULD Jill get? If Derick has his own law firm one day I suppose she could be trained to do some clerical work. But no degree of any sort, no job experience, no training ...

She could work at one of many entry level jobs. Grocery store, fast food, big box stores, etc. She could do day care, before and after school care. She could become a PCA. There's plenty of jobs out there.

Edited March 22, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Zella]

I feel like if Jill did get an entry-level job, it's more likely it would be at Amy's store. I don't know how long-term that would be, though. Not even as a comment on the viability of the store. More just I'm not sure how long the relationship as an employee/employer would last, and that is a comment as much about Amy as it is Jill. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Zella said:

I feel like if Jill did get an entry-level job, it's more likely it would be at Amy's store. I don't know how long-term that would be, though. Not even as a comment on the viability of the store. More just I'm not sure how long the relationship as an employee/employer would last, and that is a comment as much about Amy as it is Jill. 

So true. Mixing family and business is usually hard. As Derick now knows.

I think Jill would have a hard time adjusting to a fixed schedule anywhere as well. But she's capable.

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder what Derick's and Jill's discussions look like when they're not filming. Does Jill shut up and listen? Does Derick get cagey and condescending? Do they both whip out their Bibles to prove their own points?

Derick may know more about math and science, but Jill likely knows more about what is in the Bible. Maybe Jill's interpretation is skewed, but so is Derick's.

Depending on how aware they are of what Izzy, and eventually Sammy, are learning, they may have to revisit this discussion again. And it may not be pretty.

I wonder if they both even use the same Bible.

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

So true. Mixing family and business is usually hard. As Derick now knows.

I think Jill would have a hard time adjusting to a fixed schedule anywhere as well. But she's capable.

I also think the schedule would give her trouble, though she may be a little more comfortable with having one now that Izzy has been in school for almost a full school year. I think customer interaction could also be hard for her. Jill doesn't strike me as someone who would be unfriendly to a customer, but I'm not sure how she would handle if the situation became disagreeable or if she would be good at reading the room and responding accordingly. Shades of my poor foolish college roommate thinking being a waitress meant customers wanted to hear her tell jokes and then her being confused why her tips were shitty. LOL 

I also think Cousin Amy can be a bitch and is a bit of a weasel in her own way, so I wouldn't want her as a boss for myself. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Zella

[Lady Whistleup]

I was surprised how fierce Jill was about insisting on the literal creationism story. Most Christian people nowadays believe what Derick believes -- that the creationism story wasn't meant to be taken literally but metaphorically. She looked triggered just by Derick saying "we don't know everything."

[cmr2014]

19 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

She could work at one of many entry level jobs. Grocery store, fast food, big box stores, etc. She could do day care, before and after school care. She could become a PCA. There's plenty of jobs out there.

Jill has no experience with schedules, and there would be a learning curve -- I could see her being fired from multiple jobs before she ever got established.

She's never had to get up on time, never had to be a certain place at a certain time, never had to be available on certain days. I had a job once supervising a whole lot of people with little/no job experience. It was not uncommon for them to not show up and not call, and then come in a day or two later with a "doctor's note" explaining that they had been sick, or their child had been sick. People would make specific plans for things: doctor's appointments, meetings with teachers, haircuts, etc. and they would just leave (or not come in) without even thinking of asking, or telling anyone that they wouldn't be in.

It seems normal and common to most of us to go to work during work hours, make plans outside of work hours, and ask for time off when events require us to be somewhere else during work hours. There are people, though, and I think Jill is among them, who have no experience with these concepts, and don't even think about them. 

Derick working regular hours at WalMart was totally foreign to her, and she hated it and pushed back hard. She may be more comfortable with some structure now -- school requires a lot more structure than she's used to, but it's a lot more flexible than work (and, of course, it's Derick and Izzy who are in school, not her). I wouldn't hire her in any capacity.

[madpsych78]

I think Jill has generally been accepting of Izzy going to public school because it's kindergarten, and he's just learning basic academic concepts as well as social skills - as opposed to discussing "heavy" issues which may be more the case in older grades. I didn't really start learning about evolution until high school, perhaps maybe junior high. Jill doesn't know what she doesn't know. We'll see what happens as Izzy (and eventually Sammy) progress through the grades.

[crazy8s]

3 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I think Jill has generally been accepting of Izzy going to public school because it's kindergarten, and he's just learning basic academic concepts as well as social skills - as opposed to discussing "heavy" issues which may be more the case in older grades. I didn't really start learning about evolution until high school, perhaps maybe junior high. Jill doesn't know what she doesn't know. We'll see what happens as Izzy (and eventually Sammy) progress through the grades.

wasn't Izzy shown in a safari type outfit for dinosaur week or something? Surely he got the basic facts dinosaurs roamed the earth long ago. Not in the New Earth version from the Ark Encounter

[thehorseofpower]

2 hours ago, rue721 said:

If Derick loves Jill or the boys, this must freak him out. His own mother was widowed fairly young and with sons to support as well as herself.

I agree with this.  Having a stay-at-home wife might have sounded nice in the beginning, but once the kids come along and you realize you are now the sole breadwinner for not just yourself and a spouse but multiple tiny humans who are completely dependent on you does tend to up the pressure and worries about what would happen if you as the  breadwinner suddenly dropped dead, or even just lost your job and had a hard time finding another one (I just got done with several years of being the sole breadwinner for a family of 4 while my husband went back to school, and I found the pressure of being in that position to be very stressful). Knowing the spouse can pick up that slack really takes some of that pressure off and lessens the worry about what happens to the kids if the worst were to happen. And Derick certainly knows better than most that the worst can and does happen.

[madpsych78]

7 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

wasn't Izzy shown in a safari type outfit for dinosaur week or something? Surely he got the basic facts dinosaurs roamed the earth long ago. Not in the New Earth version from the Ark Encounter

I don't know that creationists necessarily deny that dinosaurs existed...I think that creationists deny that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago.

[crazy8s]

1 minute ago, madpsych78 said:

I don't know that creationists necessarily deny that dinosaurs existed...I think that creationists deny that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago.

sorry. maybe i didn't explain clearly what I meant  Jill believes dinosaurs were on Noah's ark the Ark Encounter book has been clearly shown many times on the living room book rack thing. Izzy learning basic kindergarten dino info in public school would get they lived way before that. He might not think anything of that now. but eventually he will sort the facts from school and library books and it will push against Jill's beliefs.

[cmr2014]

Just now, thehorseofpower said:

I agree with this.  Having a stay-at-home wife might have sounded nice in the beginning, but once the kids come along and you realize you are now the sole breadwinner for not just yourself and a spouse but multiple tiny humans who are completely dependent on you does tend to up the pressure and worries about what would happen if you as the  breadwinner suddenly dropped dead, or even just lost your job and had a hard time finding another one (I just got done with several years of being the sole breadwinner for a family of 4 while my husband went back to school, and I found the pressure of being in that position to be very stressful). Knowing the spouse can pick up that slack really takes some of that pressure off and lessens the worry about what happens to the kids if the worst were to happen. And Derick certainly knows better than most that the worst can and does happen.

I agree. I think Derick may have been going through a phase of rejecting his parents' values when he met/married Jill. His mother worked, and he chose a stay-at-home wife with no work experience and no interests of her own. He was one of two children and he and Jill talked about having a soccer team's worth the kids. I think he was pretty appalled by the TTH (especially the sexual abuse, but probably the entire dog-and-pony show) after a while, and has skewed back toward the lifestyle he was raised in more recently.

Despite their protests to the contrary, I hope that they don't have any more children. I think Jill was raised her entire life to believe that she "loved kids," but I don't really think she does. I think she's wound too tight to really enjoy having a large family. The role that Jessa is playing of the relaxed, go-with-the-flow mom who loves that chaos and genuinely enjoys the company of children is the sort of person who does well with a large family (I 100% think that Jessa is playing a role here, and I don't think she should have ANY MORE kids, either). It's clear that Derick isn't into kids at all, and I think the whole family will be a lot happier when the kids are both in school and Derick doesn't have to pretend to enjoy playing with them (so that Jill can film it).

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I agree. I think Derick may have been going through a phase of rejecting his parents' values when he met/married Jill. His mother worked, and he chose a stay-at-home wife with no work experience and no interests of her own. He was one of two children and he and Jill talked about having a soccer team's worth the kids. I think he was pretty appalled by the TTH (especially the sexual abuse, but probably the entire dog-and-pony show) after a while, and has skewed back toward the lifestyle he was raised in more recently.

Despite their protests to the contrary, I hope that they don't have any more children. I think Jill was raised her entire life to believe that she "loved kids," but I don't really think she does. I think she's wound too tight to really enjoy having a large family. The role that Jessa is playing of the relaxed, go-with-the-flow mom who loves that chaos and genuinely enjoys the company of children is the sort of person who does well with a large family (I 100% think that Jessa is playing a role here, and I don't think she should have ANY MORE kids, either). It's clear that Derick isn't into kids at all, and I think the whole family will be a lot happier when the kids are both in school and Derick doesn't have to pretend to enjoy playing with them (so that Jill can film it).

You are so generous. I figured Derick was attracted to Jill because she liked him back.

[crazy8s]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

You are so generous. I figured Derick was attracted to Jill because she liked him back.

and he most certainly said the young fundy men wanted to marry quickly because they wanted sex

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, crazy8s said:

and he most certainly said the young fundy men wanted to marry quickly because they wanted sex

And his mother encouraged him to date with a purpose so he wouldn't be wasting his money on girls he wasn't going to marry.

[cmr2014]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

You are so generous. I figured Derick was attracted to Jill because she liked him back.

I think that was a huge part of it, but I also think that Derick had a very romanticized notion of the Duggar lifestyle. I think he imagined a big loving family gathered around the dinner table every evening talking and laughing; everyone gathered around the hearth at Christmas singing hymns and carols; brothers working on cars together and sisters giggling together about hair styles and clothes; etc. I think he imagined a warm loving family that would embrace him at a time he was probably feeling lonely, and was obviously adrift.

I think that the reality of a bunch of feral children dressed in rags and eating cold food out of cans was a bit of a shock. I think he also realized that -- at least the older siblings -- don't like Jill and were glad to see her out the door. I think he thought it would be fun (and profitable) to be on tv, and then discovered it was just another way in which he was expected to toe the line and keep his mouth shut. The icing on the cake was probably learning about the sexual abuse -- and that Jill was repentant for her role in enticing her brother.

[iwantcookies]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And his mother encouraged him to date with a purpose so he wouldn't be wasting his money on girls he wasn't going to marry.

God forbid he spent $30 to take a girl to the movies and get her a happy meal 🙄🙄🙄

[Zella]

13 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that was a huge part of it, but I also think that Derick had a very romanticized notion of the Duggar lifestyle. I think he imagined a big loving family gathered around the dinner table every evening talking and laughing; everyone gathered around the hearth at Christmas singing hymns and carols; brothers working on cars together and sisters giggling together about hair styles and clothes; etc. I think he imagined a warm loving family that would embrace him at a time he was probably feeling lonely, and was obviously adrift.

I think that the reality of a bunch of feral children dressed in rags and eating cold food out of cans was a bit of a shock. I think he also realized that -- at least the older siblings -- don't like Jill and were glad to see her out the door. I think he thought it would be fun (and profitable) to be on tv, and then discovered it was just another way in which he was expected to toe the line and keep his mouth shut. The icing on the cake was probably learning about the sexual abuse -- and that Jill was repentant for her role in enticing her brother.

I think you're right. I also think a big part of Derick's bitterness at his father-in-law is that he feels betrayed by Jim Bob. I think he reached out to Jim Bob with a very idealized picture of the Duggars while he was in search of a father figure in the wake of his dad's death. And of course there's a lot of buyer beware there--I think there were plenty of red flags to indicate that was not at all what he was going to be getting, but he didn't really see them until after he was married to Jill.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think you're right. I also think a big part of Derick's bitterness at his father-in-law is that he feels betrayed by Jim Bob. I think he reached out to Jim Bob with a very idealized picture of the Duggars while he was in search of a father figure in the wake of his dad's death. And of course there's a lot of buyer beware there--I think there were plenty of red flags to indicate that was not at all what he was going to be getting, but he didn't really see them until after he was married to Jill.

I would say then, Derick's first red flag should have been his own. He wasn't marrying JB, he was marrying Jill.

[crazy8s]

giant red flag on the 30 page questionnaire - who does that??? Derick and Bin apparently - I doubt Jer and Austin did

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I would say then, Derick's first red flag should have been his own. He wasn't marrying JB, he was marrying Jill.

For sure! It's like textbook buyer beware. But I think it might explain some of his fury toward Jim Bob. 

[Future Cat Lady]

14 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think you're right. I also think a big part of Derick's bitterness at his father-in-law is that he feels betrayed by Jim Bob. I think he reached out to Jim Bob with a very idealized picture of the Duggars while he was in search of a father figure in the wake of his dad's death. And of course there's a lot of buyer beware there--I think there were plenty of red flags to indicate that was not at all what he was going to be getting, but he didn't really see them until after he was married to Jill.

I think you're right, but I don't feel sorry for him. He's the one who married a girl he barely knew. The joke's on him. 

[Zella]

Just now, Future Cat Lady said:

I think you're right, but I don't feel sorry for him. He's the one who married a girl he barely knew. The joke's on him. 

Oh I don't feel sorry for him either. I was just analyzing why Derick sometimes comes across like a woman scorned toward his father-in-law. Their breakup seems way more emotionally fraught than just my father-in-law is an asshole. 

[Teriacky]

Is Derrick trying to make himself look as dorky as possible or is Jill cutting his hair these days? He looks like he’s running for the title of Super Nerd of the South.

[Westiepeach]

35 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

giant red flag on the 30 page questionnaire - who does that??? Derick and Bin apparently - I doubt Jer and Austin did

Wasn’t it a 50 pager? And Jer apparently over-achieved and handed in 100 pages?

[crazycatlady58]

3 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Wasn’t it a 50 pager? And Jer apparently over-achieved and handed in 100 pages?

If I remember correctly yes. I got a chuckle out of Jer handing him the 100 pages.

[ginger90]

5 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Wasn’t it a 50 pager? And Jer apparently over-achieved and handed in 100 pages?

Yes, indeed he did.

[crazy8s]

2 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Wasn’t it a 50 pager? And Jer apparently over-achieved and handed in 100 pages?

"On a 2016 episode of Counting On, the older Duggar daughters admitted that their dad made their suitors fill out a 30-50 page questionnaire before allowing them to enter a courtship. Apparently it started out at 30 pages, but ended up closer to 50 by the time Jeremy Vuolo met Jinger Duggar."

[WhyAmIHere]

Derick NOT being a young Earth creationist might be the most shocking thing yet I've heard from these two.  I thought for sure he would follow that line of thinking.  But then again, I never expected Jill and Derick to be living the most secular life out of all the Duggars. I thought they were among the biggest Kool-Aid drinkers of them all.  

Edited March 22, 2021 by WhyAmIHere
Misspelled words

[libgirl2]

38 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

If I remember correctly yes. I got a chuckle out of Jer handing him the 100 pages.

I wonder if JB read all of it or skimmed over? 

[Quilt Fairy]

I love the cherry picking of scientific facts.  We believe in gravity because......... we're not floating off into the sky? 

 

[iwantcookies]

Wow Jeremy really wanted her Social Media fans/$$$ lol

Poor Jinger