Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Westiepeach]

12 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

And . . . now I'm looking over at the router in the corner of the room and wondering what nefarious shit it's getting up to. Dang.

Lol! I was side-eying my own router and thinking the same thing…

[Churchhoney]

26 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

 

JimBob never fought for his girls like he did for this piece of trash son.

He certainly didn't. He recently said in a court of law that he doesn't even remember what he was told about what happened to them........And it went on for three years. 

I've considered him a major piece of shit for almost two decades now, but he surpassed himself with that one. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Churchhoney

[CandyCaneTree]

2 hours ago, Sile said:

Buy used and save the difference!

I'm still shell shocked by the news that everything is going up to $1.25 after the first of the year.  Ol' JB was pretty savvy to get in on that before the price change!

My Dollar Tree is now 1.25🤐

[Tuxcat]

33 minutes ago, Zella said:

I was away from my computer for most of the afternoon so speed-reading through the updates. I'm shocked they rested after 2 defense witnesses, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out why the defense used the investigator as a defense witness. What was he supposed to be adding to their case? 

They were targeting the idea that the govt. was out to get Josh. The agent wasn't interested in that other employee. He went back to make sure Josh was at the car lot.

The idea of course, why Josh?  Why not investigate all the people at the car lot from the start? It's was an obvious frame job - so they say.

It does make an interesting question. But the evidence still points to Josh and he was the most likely suspect and the owner of the IP and business. So it still makes sense

Edited December 8, 2021 by Tuxcat

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

They were targeting the idea that the govt. was out to get Josh. The agent wasn't interested in that other employee. He went back to make sure Josh was at the car lot.

The idea of course, why Josh?  Why not investigate all the people at the car lot from the start?

It does make an interesting question. But the evidence still points to Josh and he was the most likely suspect and the owner of the IP and business. So it still makes sense

Yeah I feel like that's because probable cause would have been for Josh because of the IP info, so it's hardly astonishing that they were interested in him from the beginning. I read McCandless's articles for today, and he didn't give much info on that witness either, and he's usually a thorough summarizer. I got the impression the defense knew it was so lame they didn't even try to pretend like they were going to make it make sense. LOL 

[CandyCaneTree]

I wonder where they will live after he gets out of prison.  Not anywhere near schools, daycare of places where kids hang out. Maybe this is the reason Blob bought the plot of land he was going to use for a luxury mobile home park.

[babyhouseman]

I'm not surprised Michelle wasn't there. She always looks like she's ready to crack with the smile and crazy eyes. She'd break down. And you know she's working hard at home homeschooling the children on perpendicular. 

[Heathen]

Just now, CandyCaneTree said:

I wonder where they will live after he gets out of prison.  Not anywhere near schools, daycare of places where kids hang out. Maybe this is the reason Blob bought the plot of land he was going to use for a luxury mobile home park.

A luxury mobile home park? I know many are very, very nice, but not luxury! 

I doubt JB was that forward-thinking. I doubt he thinks Smuggar will be convicted -- as I've said before, it's got to be mind-blowing to realize your child gets off on CSAM. Ted Bundy's mother couldn't accept what he did despite overwhelming evidence and his own partial admission of guilt. 

[MaryAnneSpier]

What tipped the feds to look into Josh in the first place? After 2015 when the molestations were made public, did the governement keep an eye on him to see if his past was an indicator of illegal sexual preferences? Or were they investigating the legality of JB's shady businesses and came across the abuse images on accident? If it's the latter, I hope that it leads to JB himself having to face up to the law too. 

[DawgMom]

so is this a tactic by the defense to appeal a possible conviction to blame their "professional" witness had 'duped' them into believing her knowledge of computers, so how could they know any better, while giving a judge sad puppy dog eyes and sucking their thumbs?

Boob should be on trial as well, "well after our son came to us after 3 or 4 times admitting he had done stuff, it was time we did something" my WTF meter exploded

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, Annb67 said:

 I hope he’s found guilty and taken straight out of court to jail. I wrote a little Christmas carol if that happens. Sing to the tune of Away in a Manger. 
 

Away in a jail cell no crib for a perv. The little Lord Joshley lay down his receding hairline head. The stars in the sky wouldn’t shine where he lay. The Lord Joshley perv asleep in cell block A. 

Change “little” to “pudgy” and you’ve nailed it. 😀

[CountryGirl]

29 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

He certainly didn't. He recently said in a court of law that he doesn't even remember what he was told about what happened to them........And it went on for three years. 

I've considered him a major piece of shit for almost two decades now, but he surpassed himself with that one. 

He’s a dingleberry attached to an oozing boil on the hairy, pimply ass of humanity. 

[Jeeves]

2 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

What tipped the feds to look into Josh in the first place? 

I'm vague on the deets, but IIRC it was local law enforcement (maybe someone on a task force?) monitoring the innernetz for dastardly download traffic, that led them via IP address to the car lot. Yeah, Joshie defeated the Covenant Eyes software but it seems he forgot to worry about covering his tracks from law enforcement. Heh.

[hathorlive]

50 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I was away from here all day and just finished my speed-read through the posts here.

And . . . now I'm looking over at the router in the corner of the room and wondering what nefarious shit it's getting up to. Dang.

I think my router is plotting in concert with my beagles to kill me and raid the fridge.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to look at a router again without thinking it's defrauding me.

[DawgMom]

3 hours ago, CandyCaneTree said:

If he goes away does it mean that she still has a husband? 

If not, Kody Brown may be looking for a replacement of Christine. Talk about a TLC crossover!!! I would make popcorn to watch that first season.

[SJC]

I am beginning to feel apprehensive around my router. Should I throw it out?

Edited December 8, 2021 by SJC

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, SJC said:

I am beginning to feel apprehensive around my router. Should I throw it out?

But then how would you snark with us about the Duggars? Perhaps you should put a tinfoil hat on top of it?

[mynextmistake]

2 hours ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

This photo of Jill touches me:
 

She looks almost as upset as Joy did in the pictures from yesterday. It makes Josh and Anna’s smirking and Jason’s mugging for the camera outside courthouse even more disgusting. I hope she is getting support from Derick and his family, and her friends. 

It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if Anna made an exception to the 67 day rule and has been joyfully available like her life depended on it. If Josh goes down for 5-7 years, it’s going to be awfully hard for her to break ten kids. She might be trying to squeeze in one more before the cell doors clang shut.

If Josh is convicted, I wonder what CPS involvement there will be after he is released? He will be a registered sex offender. The judge was only willing to allow him to be around his kids while on bail if Anna supervised them, and I would think any sensible family court judge would realize that post-release, Anna will not be able to ensure that he is never alone with any of their seven kids. In my admittedly lay opinion, Arkansas CPS has been pretty lax in their protection of Josh’s kids to date, but they won’t be able to ignore the fact that he’s a registered sex offender with a predilection for young kids. I know women in similar situations who were forced to divorce or separate from their spouses in order to keep their kids.

Sadly, if given this choice, I’m not 100% sure Anna wouldn’t pick Josh, but that’s a whole different discussion.

[CountryGirl]

16 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I was just thinking the very same thought!  He's been such a negative in all their lives.

Poor Jill looks like she's bearing the weight of the world with all of this.

JimBob never fought for his girls like he did for this piece of trash son.

I think the only reason he fought for Josh was to keep the teevee $$$ coming in. The sexual abuse coming to light killed 19K+C but spawned Counting On and I think that initially, because of all that transpired, there was more interest than ever before so in a very twisted way, I could see Boob almost crediting Josh for that. 

But I don’t think he gives a shit about any of his kids. No one who did could let what happened continue for three seconds, let alone three YEARS. He and Meeeech raised these kids in an environment where they squelched any semblance of a normal, healthy environment, fostering deceit and shame, making the forbidden all the more enticing (although Josh’s proclivities went even beyond that). They did nothing to help their daughters cope with what happened to them. They weren’t even transparent about what DID happen to them. And they never even contemplated getting real therapy for their eldest. So many lives were impacted by their incredibly poor, selfish, short-sighted decisions and continue to be impacted to this very day. 

[SJC]

Just now, hathorlive said:

But then how would you snark with us about the Duggars? Perhaps you should put a tinfoil hat on top of it?

Awesome idea ! 😊
 

[CountryGirl]

6 minutes ago, SJC said:

I am beginning to feel apprehensive around my router. Should I throw it out?

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, mynextmistake said:

She looks almost as upset as Joy did in the pictures from yesterday. It makes Josh and Anna’s smirking and Jason’s mugging for the camera outside courthouse even more disgusting. I hope she is getting support from Derick and his family, and her friends. 

I've always thought Jill and Joy seemed to process what happened to them a bit more than Jessa and Jinger.  I think Jessa would sell her soul instead of letting her insta fans think her life wasn't perfect.  But Jill and Joy just seem to radiate pain.  I hope they are supporting each other during this time.  It's a a tough situation. I'm sure they will feel safer if Josh is in jail. They will spend less time worrying if another little girl in the family is at risk. But it's still their brother. So many people are going to be affected by this verdict in so many ways.  I just hope they don't take the burden on themselves.  They did nothing wrong, even if Josh called Jill a snitch.  Snitches like this NEED to be in prison. 

 

If y'all don't think Anna has banked his sperm, you are crazy.  She's going to have babies even if baby daddy is in the big house.  And I don't mean the TTH.

[SJC]

Just now, hathorlive said:

But then how would you snark with us about the Duggars? Perhaps you should put a tinfoil hat on top of it?

Awesome idea ! 😊
 

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, CountryGirl said:

Router on a shelf, it beats the shit out of a stupid ELF.

[mynextmistake]

2 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I think the only reason he fought for Josh was to keep the teevee $$$ coming in. The sexual abuse coming to light killed 19K+C but spawned Counting On and I think that initially, because of all that transpired, there was more interest than ever before so I’m a very twisted way, I could see Boob almost crediting Josh for that. 

But I don’t think he gives a shit about any of his kids. No one who did could let what happened continue for three seconds, let alone three YEARS. He and Meeeech raised these kids in an environment where they squelched any semblance of a normal, healthy environment, fostering deceit and shame, making the forbidden all the more enticing (although Josh’s proclivities went even beyond that). They did nothing to help their daughters cope with what happened to them. They weren’t even transparent about what DID happen to them. And they never even contemplated getting real therapy for their eldest. So many lives were impacted by their incredibly poor, selfish, short-sighted decisions and continue to be impacted to this very day. 

I think Michelle cares about Josh and Josie, because Josh is her oldest son and Josie is walking antiabortion propaganda, and I think JB cares about Michelle. I think that neither of them cares at all about any of their other 17 kids, as evidenced by everything you said here. 

Regarding luxury mobile homes, my MIL made me go with her on a tour of a 55+ luxury mobile home community in the sun belt and some of those places were swank. 

[Dimi1]

24 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

He’s a dingleberry attached to an oozing boil on the hairy, pimply ass of humanity. 

Haha..I know what dingleberry means lol…when my kids   were preteen they used that phrase ALOT..lol..no one knew what it actually meant

Edited December 8, 2021 by Dimi1
Correct phrase

[Heathen]

29 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

What tipped the feds to look into Josh in the first place? After 2015 when the molestations were made public, did the governement keep an eye on him to see if his past was an indicator of illegal sexual preferences? Or were they investigating the legality of JB's shady businesses and came across the abuse images on accident? If it's the latter, I hope that it leads to JB himself having to face up to the law too. 

The government doesn't have time or manpower to "keep an eye on" private citizens who have been neither charged nor convicted. Furthermore, there's no proof that Jim Bob's businesses are shady, and if there were, I very much doubt it would be the federal government watching. He's small potatoes, contrary to what he no doubtlessly thinks. 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Heathen said:

The government doesn't have time or manpower to "keep an eye on" private citizens who have been neither charged nor convicted. Furthermore, there's no proof that Jim Bob's businesses are shady, and if there were, I very much doubt it would be the federal government watching. He's small potatoes, contrary to what he no doubtlessly thinks. 

This is all very true, but based on some of the stuff that's come out in this trial, I do think there's some proof that the family businesses are shady. If I'm not mistaken, I believe in the motions about alibis, both sides were confounded by the inaccurate employment records, which made it hard to pin down when people were actually working and start/end dates. Makes me wonder what nuggets a forensic accountant would glean from the records.  

[emmawoodhouse]

Forensic accountant? Pretty pleasr? 😁

[Zella]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Forensic accountant? Pretty pleasr? 😁

All I want for Christmas (besides a guilty verdict) is an IRS audit of the Duggar enterprises! :) 

[Jeeves]

11 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I think the only reason [Jim Bob] fought for Josh was to keep the teevee $$$ coming in.

I leaned that way too, and I'm sure the idea of money is never far from JB's mind. But, a few months ago I listened to a podcast series (on YouTube) called "I Pray You Put This Journal Away," by a man named Justin. He's a few years younger than Josh, and when he was a young teen his family went to the Duggars' home church, so he knew Josh and the other Duggar kids. Not as best buddies, but he saw them regularly at that time.

In some of the podcasts he discusses Josh and the scandal that hit the church about Josh when his family was there. It wasn't the molestations - that had happened earlier and Justin didn't know about them. The big scandal was that Josh had been discovered to have been looking at (adult) porn on computers while he was working on Jim Holt's campaign for a US Senate seat. Holt lost the election and found out shortly afterward about Josh looking at porn on the computers, and blew up. "Sin in the camp!" in the form of Josh, had helped Satan to defeat Holt, or so he thought. Holt raised hell about it and Josh was hauled up before the church elders and a severe punishment meted out to him.

What I learned from the podcast was that JB was convinced, and had apparently convinced the other church leaders, that Josh actually had some special God-given role in this world so he needed to be saved from the taint of his horrible sin. There really was quite an investment of emotion in Josh. I've made jokes about his being the "crown prince" of the Duggar family but Justin's podcast strongly suggests that it was more truth than not.  For instance, Justin talked about how the Duggar kids were using a bunch of computers that had been basically cobbled together from a truckload of old computers a local college was throwing out and JB grabbed. He described a room with a lot of computer parts and carcasses piled in the corners and these old patched up computers on tables for the kids. BUT Josh had his very own brand new iMac, and Justin was very impressed as Josh showed a bunch of the church kids what it could do.

Yes, think about it. Crown Prince Joshie with a sparkling new iMac all his own while the other kids made do with pieced together old PCs. 

[mittsigirl]

26 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

I think Michelle cares about Josh and Josie, because Josh is her oldest son and Josie is walking antiabortion propaganda, and I think JB cares about Michelle. I think that neither of them cares at all about any of their other 17 kids, as evidenced by everything you said here. 

Regarding luxury mobile homes, my MIL made me go with her on a tour of a 55+ luxury mobile home community in the sun belt and some of those places were swank. 

Yes, I have seen pictures of some of those swanky places, some are very fancy! Yesterday I saw an advertisement for a triple wide mobile home, it's huge inside!

[SJC]

8 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

Yesterday I saw an advertisement for a triple wide mobile home, it's huge inside!

I recently saw the floor plan for a triple-wide that was 3,426 square feet.

[mittsigirl]

Just now, SJC said:

I recently saw the floor plan for a triple-wide that was 3,426 square feet.

That's huge for a mobile home! They won't be cheap, that's for sure! I will have to take a peek at their interiors, very interesting to go so big.

[Churchhoney]

27 minutes ago, Zella said:

All I want for Christmas (besides a guilty verdict) is an IRS audit of the Duggar enterprises! :) 

Well, if we could just make clear to Santa how many people would like that and only that for Christmas....

Edited December 8, 2021 by Churchhoney

[SJC]

1 minute ago, mittsigirl said:

That's huge for a mobile home! They won't be cheap, that's for sure! I will have to take a peek at their interiors, very interesting to go so big.

I'd like to see the inside of one.

[merylinkid]

19 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I leaned that way too, and I'm sure the idea of money is never far from JB's mind. But, a few months ago I listened to a podcast series (on YouTube) called "I Pray You Put This Journal Away," by a man named Justin. He's a few years younger than Josh, and when he was a young teen his family went to the Duggars' home church, so he knew Josh and the other Duggar kids. Not as best buddies, but he saw them regularly at that time.

In some of the podcasts he discusses Josh and the scandal that hit the church about Josh when his family was there. It wasn't the molestations - that had happened earlier and Justin didn't know about them. The big scandal was that Josh had been discovered to have been looking at (adult) porn on computers while he was working on Jim Holt's campaign for a US Senate seat. Holt lost the election and found out shortly afterward about Josh looking at porn on the computers, and blew up. "Sin in the camp!" in the form of Josh, had helped Satan to defeat Holt, or so he thought. Holt raised hell about it and Josh was hauled up before the church elders and a severe punishment meted out to him.

What I learned from the podcast was that JB was convinced, and had apparently convinced the other church leaders, that Josh actually had some special God-given role in this world so he needed to be saved from the taint of his horrible sin. There really was quite an investment of emotion in Josh. I've made jokes about his being the "crown prince" of the Duggar family but Justin's podcast strongly suggests that it was more truth than not.  For instance, Justin talked about how the Duggar kids were using a bunch of computers that had been basically cobbled together from a truckload of old computers a local college was throwing out and JB grabbed. He described a room with a lot of computer parts and carcasses piled in the corners and these old patched up computers on tables for the kids. BUT Josh had his very own brand new iMac, and Justin was very impressed as Josh showed a bunch of the church kids what it could do.

Yes, think about it. Crown Prince Joshie with a sparkling new iMac all his own while the other kids made do with pieced together old PCs. 

Yeah a lot of JBs ego is tied up in Josh being the Crown Prince.   If he is some perverted scumbag instead that means JB was wrong.   And JB can't be wrong.   

[Lady Whistleup]

Jill and Joy both look very sad. I don't really care anymore whether they "forgive" Josh or want him to be acquitted. It might make their lives easier to forgive. I just know that Josh and Boob are the biggest pieces of shit for causing so much pain to people they're supposed to love.

[Heathen]

25 minutes ago, Zella said:

This is all very true, but based on some of the stuff that's come out in this trial, I do think there's some proof that the family businesses are shady. If I'm not mistaken, I believe in the motions about alibis, both sides were confounded by the inaccurate employment records, which made it hard to pin down when people were actually working and start/end dates. Makes me wonder what nuggets a forensic accountant would glean from the records.  

To me, proof means conviction. Shady doesn't mean illegal, unfortunately; otherwise, an awful lot of business owners would be in deep shit. It would be fun to see what a forensic accountant came up with. 

 

Just now, SJC said:

I recently saw the floor plan for a triple-wide that was 3,426 square feet.

But it still goes down the road on a truck! As my grandmother once said. 

[SJC]

4 minutes ago, Heathen said:

But it still goes down the road on a truck! As my grandmother once said. 

True. 😊

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, Heathen said:

To me, proof means conviction. Shady doesn't mean illegal, unfortunately; otherwise, an awful lot of business owners would be in deep shit. It would be fun to see what a forensic accountant came up with. 

Yeah that's fair enough. I am curious if the employment record debacle was the result of lazy/incompetent record-keeping or an actual attempt to commit fraud. Something tells me they didn't run a tight ship at Wholesale Motorcars and that it was probably a real shitshow in general. 

[all fall down]

This People article has a quote from Derick (way at the bottom). He seems to think Josh is most likely guilty. 

https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-trial-defense-rests-jury-must-decide-which-expert-to-believe/

Quote

At least one member of the courtroom gallery has seemingly already drawn some conclusions: Derick Dillard, Josh's brother-in-law and husband to Josh's sister Jill, told PEOPLE outside the courtroom that he felt there was only "unreasonable doubt" about whether Josh was guilty — but not "reasonable doubt."

He said he had been attending to gather all the facts. His wife, who was under subpoena, was on a list of potential witnesses but was never called.

Derick said he planned to be in court for the verdict, without Jill.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by christine falls

[Zella]

From that People article. I have not seen it reported elsewhere:

Quote

 

And one part of the defense's case was forbidden by Judge Timothy Brooks, who said Bush could not bring up criticisms of the prosecution's use of the text-and-photo metadata from Duggar's phone because she had not done any analysis on it herself and just had an opinion it might be unreliable.

After listening to Bush's explanation out of the presence of the jury, Brooks said: "Here she knows the conclusion that she wants to reach and she is looking at possibilities upon possibilities to back into that. And I won't allow that."

 

Also it seems like a lot of sidebars followed the random witness we can't figure out why he was there. I wonder if the judge squashed whatever direction they were going with that, and that's why it seems so random. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Zella

[Heathen]

14 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah that's fair enough. I am curious if the employment record debacle was the result of lazy/incompetent record-keeping or an actual attempt to commit fraud. Something tells me they didn't run a tight ship at Wholesale Motorcars and that it was probably a real shitshow in general. 

Considering it's basically a vehicle (ha) to provide the adult sons with something to do, I suspect you are right. 

How things could have been if Jim Bob and Mullet weren't afraid to educate their kids, or allow them to be educated. 

[Tuxcat]

"At least one member of the courtroom gallery has seemingly already drawn some conclusions: Derick Dillard, Josh's brother-in-law and husband to Josh's sister Jill, told PEOPLE outside the courtroom that he felt there was only "unreasonable doubt" about whether Josh was guilty — but not "reasonable doubt."

He said he had been attending to gather all the facts. His wife, who was under subpoena, was on a list of potential witnesses but was never called.

Derick said he planned to be in court for the verdict, without Jill."

I wonder if Derick told Anna this.

[quarks]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

I was away from my computer for most of the afternoon so speed-reading through the updates. I'm shocked they rested after 2 defense witnesses, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out why the defense used the investigator as a defense witness. What was he supposed to be adding to their case? 

I have a theory about this.

We know that the defense has been absolutely desperate to blame one of the car lot employees for downloading the CSAM materials. Unfortunately for the defense, investigators have ruled out Joshua Williams (was in jail at the time), Caleb Williams (was in Illinois at the time), Matthew Waller (no longer worked at the car lot; was somewhere else at the time), and William Mize (was in a Walmart 100 miles away at the time; given the sudden silence from the defense about Mize at this trial after months of squawking about him, I am going to guess that Walmart was able to find security footage proving that yes, Mize didn't just hand his debit card over to someone, but was actually at the store.)

That leaves Randall Perry, who was on the potential witness list.

The thing is, from everything that has been said about Perry from both sides, he's a terrible witness. He - allegedly - lied to the prosecution and the defense; his memory seems to be highly selective; and he's been colorfully described as someone who looks like a homeless guy. 

So I don't think the defense wanted Perry on the stand. So they tried the next best thing they could do - get his name in the record.  They had their main defense witness clarify that she was not able to search the cell phones of Mize, Williams and Randall Perry. And then, they had the investigator pop up and say that Randall Perry was at the car lot when he arrived.

I think they're hoping that the jury will connect the dots and ask why Perry's phone wasn't investigated, and also wonder if Perry could possibly have accessed the car lot computer remotely, and forget the inconvenient fact that Perry was not working at the car lot at the time of the alleged crime. 

 

2 hours ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

What tipped the feds to look into Josh in the first place? After 2015 when the molestations were made public, did the governement keep an eye on him to see if his past was an indicator of illegal sexual preferences? Or were they investigating the legality of JB's shady businesses and came across the abuse images on accident? If it's the latter, I hope that it leads to JB himself having to face up to the law too. 

According to the evidence at trial, local cops were keeping an eye out for the potential exchange of CSAM material. They alerted the feds. Nobody was monitoring Josh, JB, or shady businesses. This is part of why the first search warrant ended up at the wrong address; if they'd been investigating JB's businesses or keeping an eye on Josh, they wouldn't have made that mistake.

Now, if the IRS announces some sort of indictment in the next few months, that could be related. 

34 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah that's fair enough. I am curious if the employment record debacle was the result of lazy/incompetent record-keeping or an actual attempt to commit fraud. Something tells me they didn't run a tight ship at Wholesale Motorcars and that it was probably a real shitshow in general. 

There were distinct hints that federal prosecutors felt this was all more than just bad recordkeeping, but since that wasn't part of these particular two charges, they never went into details. 

[mynextmistake]

“Josh Duggar is either innocent or guilty.”

I don’t know about you, but I think it’s this kind of in-depth analysis and courage to take a stand that makes People magazine great.

Edited December 8, 2021 by mynextmistake

[Zella]

13 minutes ago, quarks said:

The thing is, from everything that has been said about Perry from both sides, he's a terrible witness. He - allegedly - lied to the prosecution and the defense; his memory seems to be highly selective; and he's been colorfully described as someone who looks like a homeless guy. So I don't think the defense wanted Perry on the stand. 

Wow he sounds . . . interesting. You know you're a bad witness when the defense that put Michele Bush on the stand nopes out on you. 

[coconspirator]

3 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

They were targeting the idea that the govt. was out to get Josh. The agent wasn't interested in that other employee. He went back to make sure Josh was at the car lot.

The idea of course, why Josh?  Why not investigate all the people at the car lot from the start? It's was an obvious frame job - so they say.

It does make an interesting question. But the evidence still points to Josh and he was the most likely suspect and the owner of the IP and business. So it still makes sense

Any chance the authorities would consider other suspects ended when Genius Criminal Josh asked, unprompted and for no reason, “has somebody been downloading child porn?”. 

[MsJamieDornan]

I'm sure Jeremy is kicking himself he wasn't around to get a picture or quote in People magazine. Poor thing.