Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Jules59]

New to this forum. Foghorn Leghorn mentioned Josh's apology to ward off a bigger story. I love to read blind items and to try and guess them. On Crazy Days and Nights there was a blind that highly suggested the Duggars. It was about a son-in-law sleeping with one of the sisters. The father was working hard to keep the story from the media. The post was from January. I wonder if this could be the bigger scandal? I have tried to find the blind item, but haven't been able to find it, yet.

[bluebonnet]

If we call out Erica Hill, we must call out every single 'journalist' who had any interaction with the Duggar family and failed to ask the hard questions, failed to researched, failed to call out the parents for their despicable ways.  I mean, Michelle and Jim Bob proudly and gladly said over and over and over again that women are in charge of male sexuality, women are required to have sex with their husbands no matter what, their children were in charge of raising their other children, etc and so on.  Instead of getting real with this family, people who interviewed them coo-ed and giggled and acted as though they were the greatest ever.  It's unfortunate that Erica Hill may become known as the last person to coddle the family, but she's just part of the larger problem within journalism.  

 

As much as I hated People for being the Duggar publicity machine for so long, I'm actually very pleased that they are giving no shits about being the anti-Duggar machine now.  It's a little late, but at least they are doing something.  

[zenme]

New to this forum. Foghorn Leghorn mentioned Josh's apology to ward off a bigger story. I love to read blind items and to try and guess them. On Crazy Days and Nights there was a blind that highly suggested the Duggars. It was about a son-in-law sleeping with one of the sisters. The father was working hard to keep the story from the media. The post was from January. I wonder if this could be the bigger scandal? I have tried to find the blind item, but haven't been able to find it, yet

 

Yes, and there has already been some speculation of this previously.  If one looks at certain behaviors of a couple of the girls on the most recent episodes, one may notice a sullen and tomato-staked daughter, and another daughter who's  had arms wrapped around, and clinging to, her new spouse.  Watching one of the girl's face when the other sister spoke during the Digging with the Duggars episode one might sense the relationship has changed...but it could just be reading into things, which is basically how we all watch, given how we don't know them. 

Edited May 25, 2015 by zenme

[Muffyn]

I have seen posters on places like Gawker gleefully pointing to this happening as "the day they've been waiting for, " and how thrilled that this means the downfall of the Duggars. As much as I loathe Josh, MEE-chelle and Jim Bob, I can't be gleeful because of his sisters and his children, and how this affected, and will continue to affect, them.  Does this make sense?

 

It's a weird feeling.

I'm right there with you.  I have always hoped that people would see through the facade of the Duggars and understand how their lifestyle harms their children.  However, I would never wish such a scandal on anyone.  The girls are victims here.  And they were robbed of the right of protection of their own stories.  They did not deserve the abuse and they did not deserve this exposure.  

 

In regards to Josh, I keep thinking about a good friend who worked with young male sex offenders.  She was a licensed therapist specializing in this area.  She is one of the most kind-hearted, incredible people you would ever meet.   She gave up this work because, in her experience, once the boys reached 14 or so, she began to see that they could not be redeemed.  Younger children often act from confusion, mimicry of viewed acts or confusion of physical boundaries.  if the behavior continues or starts in the teens, it is much harder to correct it.  While this is what I have learned from one person in this field (and I have further discussed it with several social workers), it leaves me with a greater sense of dread for Josh's on-going behaviors.  He is smug, sanctimonious and has been exalted within his family.  He has made comments that show a true lack of remorse and no consideration for how his comments may impact his victims.  I cannot say I know he would re-offend, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if more of the same is discovered.  

 

[snip]

 

Should TLC decide to try to keep this crapfest alive, they could always rename it "A Boob, an Over-medicated Ostrich, 18 Kids and a Pervert".  That should about cover it. 

Edited May 26, 2015 by bigskygirl
Edited: Edited out the one comment about matching boys up with girls Josh molested

[JoanArc]

New to this forum. Foghorn Leghorn mentioned Josh's apology to ward off a bigger story. I love to read blind items and to try and guess them. On Crazy Days and Nights there was a blind that highly suggested the Duggars. It was about a son-in-law sleeping with one of the sisters. The father was working hard to keep the story from the media. The post was from January. I wonder if this could be the bigger scandal? I have tried to find the blind item, but haven't been able to find it, yet.

http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2015/01/four-for-friday-traditional-25.html

 

 

#1 – This religious family who loves cable and babies is about to take a big hit because a son-in-law had sex several times with his sister-in-law during the holiday season. A tabloid knows. The family is trying to make a deal.

[SadForTheJSlaves]

http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2015/01/four-for-friday-traditional-25.html

 

These 'blind pieces' are new to me. How reliable are they really? Have there actually been any scandals that were in a blind piece before they broke?

[JerseyGirl]

But with so many people just making up their own versions of events, I think it's not a bad thing to have a reputable news organization put together something that's as accurate as it can be with current information. At least there's something to point to when idiots try to sell people a revised, more pro-Josh narrative.

The Daily Mail believe it our not, had an excellent timeline of detailed events from 2002-Present:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3093136/How-squeaky-clean-photo-launched-Duggars-fame-2002-belied-sordid-molestation-secret-home.html

[Dawn16]

I basically posted the same thought to a friend (Christian, of course) who was trying to defend Josh and his half-assed-admit-to-nothing apology. She came back at me with some lame-ass "she's his WIFE don't you DARE judge her for marrying him!!!"

 

But yeah, completely agree. Even if Anna was ok with whatever he told her I would imagine her parents would not be. What father would want his daughter married to an admitted incestual child molester?!

We don't really know what specifically Anna or her parents were told.  However, her father has always made me feel a bit uncomfortable, so I would not trust his judgment on that and I'm sure poor Anna did trust his judgment.  My work has required me to read way too many horrible things (that police report was extremely tame in comparison), and you would not believe what people will shut their eyes and ears to, even without an extremist religious upbringing.  I specifically remember one mother of a victim who had been warned by the boyfriend's younger sister.  If you believe in the limitless power of God and repentance, it's even easier to believe that your man has changed.  I have nothing but sympathy for Anna, based on what we know at this time.  I do think she has more options than most women in her shoes because of her celebrity, if she's willing and able to take advantage of the many people who would help her.  All of the decent women I know -- regardless their religion or politics -- would help her financially in a heartbeat. 

[Mrsjumbo]

I'm right there with you. I have always hoped that people would see through the facade of the Duggars and understand how their lifestyle harms their children. However, I would never wish such a scandal on anyone. The girls are victims here. And they were robbed of the right of protection of their own stories. They did not deserve the abuse and they did not deserve this exposure.

In regards to Josh, I keep thinking about a good friend who worked with young male sex offenders. She was a licensed therapist specializing in this area. She is one of the most kind-hearted, incredible people you would ever meet. She gave up this work because, in her experience, once the boys reached 14 or so, she began to see that they could not be redeemed. Younger children often act from confusion, mimicry of viewed acts or confusion of physical boundaries. if the behavior continues or starts in the teens, it is much harder to correct it. While this is what I have learned from one person in this field (and I have further discussed it with several social workers), it leaves me with a greater sense of dread for Josh's on-going behaviors. He is smug, sanctimonious and has been exalted within his family. He has made comments that show a true lack of remorse and no consideration for how his comments may impact his victims. I cannot say I know he would re-offend, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if more of the same is discovered.

[snip]

Should TLC decide to try to keep this crapfest alive, they could always rename it "A Boob, an Over-medicated Ostrich, 18 Kids and a Pervert". That should about cover it.

Or "19 Secrets & Counting".

[Cherrio]

"#1 – This religious family who loves cable and babies is about to take a big hit because a son-in-law had sex several times with his sister-in-law during the holiday season. A tabloid knows. The family is trying to make a deal."

 

I think we are going to need a bigger boat.     

[Fuzzysox]

I'm right there with you.  I have always hoped that people would see through the facade of the Duggars and understand how their lifestyle harms their children.  However, I would never wish such a scandal on anyone.  The girls are victims here.  And they were robbed of the right of protection of their own stories.  They did not deserve the abuse and they did not deserve this exposure.  

 

In regards to Josh, I keep thinking about a good friend who worked with young male sex offenders.  She was a licensed therapist specializing in this area.  She is one of the most kind-hearted, incredible people you would ever meet.   She gave up this work because, in her experience, once the boys reached 14 or so, she began to see that they could not be redeemed.  Younger children often act from confusion, mimicry of viewed acts or confusion of physical boundaries.  if the behavior continues or starts in the teens, it is much harder to correct it.  While this is what I have learned from one person in this field (and I have further discussed it with several social workers), it leaves me with a greater sense of dread for Josh's on-going behaviors.  He is smug, sanctimonious and has been exalted within his family.  He has made comments that show a true lack of remorse and no consideration for how his comments may impact his victims.  I cannot say I know he would re-offend, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if more of the same is discovered.  

 

I am cynical of any up-coming courtships in that they may try to match up the boys with any girls that Josh molested as a way of pulling them into the family to make it less likely that they will speak out about their abuse.  

 

Should TLC decide to try to keep this crapfest alive, they could always rename it "A Boob, an Over-medicated Ostrich, 18 Kids and a Pervert".  That should about cover it. 

You win the internet today!!!! lol

[Dawn16]

Posters keep mentioning that the victims never received counseling, but is that true?  Based on one of Alice's original comments from 2007 (which have turned out to be accurate in other respects), "The family is to report to DHS every six months and that the girls are in counciling. This is what the courts ordered."  If it's true that the court mandated counseling (which-- can it even do for victims?  I have no idea), then I assume it would have to be legit, accredited counseling and not "counseling" received through their "church"?  Am I right?  I hope I'm right.

DHS and family courts can order parents to bring their minor children to counseling as a condition of retaining custody over them.  I would hope that they would require accredited counseling, but I don't know whether they might accept a religious equivalent or even whether they followed up to make sure it was happening.  We don't have enough information, even if we assume Alice was correct.      

[RazzleberryPie]

This was my understanding:

 

The original commenter only said that there were 'sexual sins' during the campaign. I therefore didn't take that to necessarily mean molesting another girl. It could be any number of things, ranging from masturbation to looking at 'inappropriate' things on the Internet. In fact, wasn't it mentioned by 'Alice' that Josh confessed to watching pornography?

What does 'pornography' mean to them - did Josh look at a Sports Illustrated swim suite issues, or watch a xxx movie?

[Oldernowiser]

"#1 – This religious family who loves cable and babies is about to take a big hit because a son-in-law had sex several times with his sister-in-law during the holiday season. A tabloid knows. The family is trying to make a deal."

 

I think we are going to need a bigger boat.

First of all, that gets my personal vote for all-time best use of my favorite movie line ever in another context. Bravissimo!

Second...see this is the way I always thought Duggarworld would devolve. You know, a consenting adult would do something with another consenting adult. I just wish this were the case.

[CofCinci]

These 'blind pieces' are new to me. How reliable are they really? Have there actually been any scandals that were in a blind piece before they broke?

Far more reliable than people will admit. Hell, even Robert Downey Jr is believed to be a blind item source.

[RazzleberryPie]

"#1 – This religious family who loves cable and babies is about to take a big hit because a son-in-law had sex several times with his sister-in-law during the holiday season. A tabloid knows. The family is trying to make a deal."

 

I think we are going to need a bigger boat.     

If this is true, which one of Anna's sisters did Josh bang? Did Josiah fool around with one of Ben's sisters? I'd imagine Ben to still be in the honeymoon stage with Jessa, literally, and I honestly can't image Derrick being sexy with anyone.

[Chicklet]

Ok maybe I'm not smart enough to figure out blind items but.....son-in-law had sex with a sister-in-law. So we have Bin and his other brother Darryl as suspects but huh? 

Michelle might find Bin hot but when faced with those two as the last men on earth I'll just abstain. 

[SadForTheJSlaves]

What does 'pornography' mean to them - did Josh look at a Sports Illustrated swim suite issues, or watch a xxx movie?

 

From 'Alice's' original comment:

 

'Josh got up in front of the church and ask for forgiveness and all that stuff, but he was secretly still up to no good. I really don’t know how long it had been going on before it came out, but even after it did Josh pretented to be this sweet all American boy who loved his family. All the time he was going on Prono sites on the internet and watching all the filth that it has.'

[Cherrio]

If this is true, which one of Anna's sisters did Josh bang? Did Josiah fool around with one of Ben's sisters? I'd imagine Ben to still be in the honeymoon stage with Jessa, literally, and I honestly can't image Derrick being sexy with anyone.

Pistol Pete, yuck yuck and literally yuck.

First of all, that gets my personal vote for all-time best use of my favorite movie line ever in another context. Bravissimo!

Second...see this is the way I always thought Duggarworld would devolve. You know, a consenting adult would do something with another consenting adult. I just wish this were the case.

Thanks !       You made my day.

[anneofcleves]

On a more snarky note, I can only imagine how Dr. Phil must be salivating to get Josh, Anna, and the rest of this family into some "proper" counseling on his stage.  He's probably looking for ways to cram them all into the Dr. Phil house.

Edited May 25, 2015 by anneofcleves

[Fuzzysox]

If this is true, which one of Anna's sisters did Josh bang? Did Josiah fool around with one of Ben's sisters? I'd imagine Ben to still be in the honeymoon stage with Jessa, literally, and I honestly can't image Derrick being sexy with anyone.

He is too afraid of Jesus! 

 

All joking aside I can see Josh banging one of Anna's sisters probably the one the unwed mother.......just because she was gushing on him when they were engaged that he drove a limo. I don't think Josh has any shame.

[wanderwoman]

I found 14 Kids and Counting, the intro documentary for the Duggars, online. I have to say, watching it again with what we know happened is sad. You can't look at Joy and the other girls without cringing. Especially, take note of the sleeping arrangements and Josh's body language.

Also, it's interesting to note that, in this episode, shot during the issues with Josh, Josh has no female buddies and when he gets in the van, he sits next to Jessa and sIhe literally flinches before pulling her feet up onto the seat and tucking her dress, very purposefully, in a manner to cover any skin from showing on her legs.

Edited May 25, 2015 by wanderwoman

[BostonBlonde]

I agree the timing of all this is very odd. Its what politicians do when they have to release something embarrassing or bad...always on a Thurs/ Friday of a holiday weekend. 

 

Anna is an absolute moron. If Josh really did confess this to her, like she says in the People statement, and she decided she still wanted to marry him and have children with him after he said "I molested five girls, four of my sisters, some while they were sleeping" then she is a fucking lunatic. What kind of person would marry someone after hearing that? So I have to assume that she couldn't have possibly really known that. It's too pathetic. So she's making this public statement that she knew and she's okay with it, which is so stupid and gross. If she stays with this man she is the stupidest person I've ever seen on television. And I watch Teen Mom so that's saying a lot. How can she stay with him and say "I love you" and let him put his disgusting penis inside of her ? I would throw up.

 

1000 thumbs up. 

 

If this is true, which one of Anna's sisters did Josh bang? Did Josiah fool around with one of Ben's sisters? I'd imagine Ben to still be in the honeymoon stage with Jessa, literally, and I honestly can't image Derrick being sexy with anyone.

 

Dare I say...BWAHAHAHAHAHHA LMAO. Right? 

Edited May 25, 2015 by BostonBlonde

[RazzleberryPie]

Well Derrick and Jill made a baby, so........ew........brain bleach.......but, if he has the stealth and the gumption in him to woo somebody else, then more power to him. To me, he is nice, sweet, neat, totally, but NOT attractive. His brother got all the personality in that family.

[Grits]

I guess TLC cares more about Honey Boo Boo and her sisters. They canceled that sow without delay. TLC should show the Duggar girls the same respect.

[Aethera]

OK, enough please on the speculation about who had sex with who based on that blind item. Until we see something from a reputable news source, I'd like us to shut that conversation down.  I'd also ask that if we do find a reputable source for it, we don't continue with the joking about who 'banged' who, please!

[Dejana]

Crazy Days and Nights might be even less reliable than BlindGossip, and that's saying something. The site got exposed by the NY Post years ago for making things up, but the world of blind items doesn't exactly live and die with ethics, so being caught in lies wasn't necessarily an impediment to survival. All those sites have to do to stay in business is write things that enough people want to believe (real-pesron shippers are frequent targets), and they're gold. If it doesn't come true, it's because "they" have snowed the media into covering up the "real truth", not because an editor looking for hits just made stuff up. A huge red flag that an item might not be on the up and up is that if it comes along after a major scandal breaks, when it's really easy for anyone looking to be a part of the story to take what's known and go the real person fan fiction route with it. The people who run CDaN and BlindGossip probably couldn't even spell Duggar three days ago and now they're insiders? Sure. 

 

A fair number of blind items from Lainey Gossip have checked out, but she's a real entertainment reporter in Canada and puts her name to everything she says. A good blind item comes ahead of time and once the news breaks, then you have the a-ha moment.

[flyingdi]

I don't blame Erica Hill for anything. It wasn't an investigative piece. It was a episode of the Duggars show. Really, how hard hitting is it going to be?

[NEGirl]

I  believe Anna did not know the full story regarding Josh. I think she and her parents were probably told some watered down bs version like the story that J'Chell and Boob have posted on their FB page.  People can say Anna is annoying but I think most people would agree she loves her children and would want to do what is best for them. I would guess she is probably beyond broken hearted and in shock right now.  I can't imagine she would willingly stay with Josh if she thought he was a danger to the kids.  I would guess at this point her head is spinning and she does not know what to think or do.  I hope she has someone she can turn to who can give her the help she needs.

[Celia Rubenstein]

http://www.people.com/article/michael-seewald-josh-duggar-reaction

 

Hey, Jessa. How do you feel that you FIL is supporting your brother that possibly molested you?

 

Wow, that sure is an FU internet moment courtesy of  Pa Seewald, I guess.  A direct one.  He goes down the list of things people are saying and writes every concern off, one after the other.  

 

Two things really offended me.  After dismissing the criminal nature of what Josh did as being the concern of authorities, he moves on to the matter of Josh "sinning," and shares this opinion:

 

Many times it is simply lack of opportunity or fear of consequences that keep us from falling into grievous sin even though our fallen hearts would love to indulge the flesh. We should not be shocked that this occurred in the Duggar’s home, we should rather be thankful to God if we have been spared such, and pray that he would keep us and our children from falling.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I think a lot more than lack of opportunity and fear of punishment keeps people from groping their little sisters as they sleep at night.  Most people have no desire to do anything of the sort.  The vast majority, I would think.  And many of those who either do want or are curious about that kind of contact manage to resist the urge because they know it is sick.  Pa Keller is talking about about a very small minority of people who have messed up urges and lack the ability to control themselves, and then suggests we are all *this close* to doing the same things.   He could not be more full of crap in my opinion.  

 

And his Gothardy thinking slips out despite his all the lip service he pays to the suffering and blamelessness of the victims:

 

For those who bear the emotional scars of abuse I empathize with you. Healing is possible and many people have found it. Turn to Jesus Christ and find your identity in him. Lean upon him as he cleanses away the guilt and pain.

 

Why would a victim be feeling any guilt?  He just said they were blameless.  Hmph.  I think his true opinion slipped out there just a little at the end.  Nice try, Pa Seewald.  You should have quit while you were ahead.

 

That being said, I can understand wanting to support your in-laws in their time of crisis.  And I think it takes guts given the nature of what is going on.  But this is not support.  It is a rationalization and minimization of what Josh did, and to the extend that it shifts even a little bit of blame to the victims, it is just wrongheaded.  

 

Pa Seewald really should have just stayed out of it. 

 

Here is a link to his whole spiel:

http://seewalds.com/grace-greater-than-our-sin/#more-341

[wanderwoman]

I guess TLC cares more about Honey Boo Boo and her sisters. They canceled that sow without delay. TLC should show the Duggar girls the same respect.

The more I've thought about it, the more I think they owe people a public explanation. So, while I completely support the girls and don't want them reliving it on camera for our benefit, here's what I think should happen. I think the series is done. It was heading to an inevitable end anyway and the show was repetitive. The younger kids deserve a private childhood and education they cannot get so long as this show, and the tours, continue. But, I do feel that we, the public, are owed an explanation and an apology from TLC and Jim Bob and Michelle,...and Josh. They subjected us to a miscarriage, Josie's painful beginnings, and several funerals under the guise that they were an open book and wanted to show people how God provides and maintains them, even at the worst of times. So, film an episode where they tel us how they feel they made the right choices by filming this show, knowing that the publicity meant exposure for Josh and this victims. I want them to explain how they envisioned this and want to know how they could continue popping out kids and holding themselves up as role models with this in their closet? I want to know why and how they reconcile their statements about purity when they knew they were, simultaneously, shaming their daughters by insisting that their modesty was protection? How could Michelle Falk about giving your partner a damaged bike when she knew her skn, using the analogy, wreck the girl's bikes? How can you say you're able to effectively manage your family when your children were being sexually abused right in front of you. The incident of the book reading and laundry room incident tells me that Josh wasn't even concerned with doing this in a secretive manner. Where the fuck were Michelle and Jim Bob? How, unless they were utterly ignorant, could they think sending a kid to do physical labor would cure him? I think they need to biblically address these issues and donate their income to a sexual abuse charity. You don't even need to show the children. But, they can't have fame without accountability and they should've never made themselves public figures with something this big in the picture.

[Wellfleet]

If we call out Erica Hill, we must call out every single 'journalist' who had any interaction with the Duggar family and failed to ask the hard questions, failed to researched, failed to call out the parents for their despicable ways.  I mean, Michelle and Jim Bob proudly and gladly said over and over and over again that women are in charge of male sexuality, women are required to have sex with their husbands no matter what, their children were in charge of raising their other children, etc and so on.  Instead of getting real with this family, people who interviewed them coo-ed and giggled and acted as though they were the greatest ever.  It's unfortunate that Erica Hill may become known as the last person to coddle the family, but she's just part of the larger problem within journalism.  

 

As much as I hated People for being the Duggar publicity machine for so long, I'm actually very pleased that they are giving no shits about being the anti-Duggar machine now.  It's a little late, but at least they are doing something.  

 

Agree. For me, and lot of others I think, the most baffling thing about the Duggars has always been how they managed to get media - any media - to agree to their edicts regarding publicity - canned questions only etc. Ding ding ding!! Shouldn't this fact have been the very first clue that something was wrong? It's been incredible. Time and time again, the media bowed to their conditions. You can only ask questions on this list. You can only photograph this etc. I was expecting to see curtsies and hear "Your Royal Highness..." after a while. Not at all baffling now, however.

[xls]

NBC's Erica Hill should be cringing as she watches herself gush all over the Duggars in that episode.

Way to shed unfavorable light on your network again, NBC.

 

TLC, do the right thing and cancel all things Duggar.

Don't continue to make money off the back of the Duggar victims or you are as bad as their parents.

 

 

As should Ann Curry and the Today Show staff. "America's favorite family", got treated with tender loving kid gloves over there. No negativity! Shame on the press.

[Oldernowiser]

As much as certain political figures like to claim that the "mainstream media" is controlled by liberal interests, the reality is that it is largely controlled by conglomerates run by extremely wealthy fiscal and social conservatives...so if a "journalist" actually had the stones to pose some hard questions to the parents of America's favorite feel-good uber Christian family, it probably would have been career suicide.

Investigative journalism is a dying breed, just because of that financial reality.

[Gianthambeast]

Wow, that sure is an FU internet moment courtesy of  Pa Seewald, I guess.  A direct one.  He goes down the list of things people are saying and writes every concern off, one after the other.  

 

Two things really offended me.  After dismissing the criminal nature of what Josh did as being the concern of authorities, he moves on to the matter of Josh "sinning," and shares this opinion:

 

 

I'm sorry, but I think a lot more than lack of opportunity and fear of punishment keeps people from groping their little sisters as they sleep at night.  Most people have no desire to do anything of the sort.  The vast majority, I would think.  And many of those who either do want or are curious about that kind of contact manage to resist the urge because they know it is sick.  Pa Keller is talking about about a very small minority of people who have messed up urges and lack the ability to control themselves, and then suggests we are all *this close* to doing the same things.   He could not be more full of crap in my opinion.  

 

And his Gothardy thinking slips out despite his all the lip service he pays to the suffering and blamelessness of the victims:

 

 

Why would a victim be feeling any guilt?  He just said they were blameless.  Hmph.  I think his true opinion slipped out there just a little at the end.  Nice try, Pa Seewald.  You should have quit while you were ahead.

 

That being said, I can understand wanting to support your in-laws in their time of crisis.  And I think it takes guts given the nature of what is going on.  But this is not support.  It is a rationalization and minimization of what Josh did, and to the extend that it shifts even a little bit of blame to the victims, it is just wrongheaded.  

 

Pa Seewald really should have just stayed out of it. 

 

Here is a link to his whole spiel:

http://seewalds.com/grace-greater-than-our-sin/#more-34

Didn't take the fucker long to pull the liberal-smear conspiracy/ they hate us for the sake of Christ!- card did it? Not gonna fly.  I've seen him express more outrage over the over the "sin" and error of simply being a Catholic than he does over Josh's proven crimes of Incest and Child molestation.

[Churchhoney]

Agree. For me, and lot of others I think, the most baffling thing about the Duggars has always been how they managed to get media - any media - to agree to their edicts regarding publicity - canned questions only etc. Ding ding ding!! Shouldn't this fact have been the very first clue that something was wrong? It's been incredible. Time and time again, the media bowed to their conditions. You can only ask questions on this list. You can only photograph this etc. I was expecting to see curtsies and hear "Your Royal Highness..." after a while. Not at all baffling now, however.

 

 

I think they got away with stifling questions because reporters had a hard time categorizing them and ended up figuring that the hard-question ban was no real issue on several different grounds.

 

They were on an entertainment show, so that suggested softball PR-agent-approved questions were okay to begin with. Because it was all just for entertainment, right? 

 

And then they were on a "reality" show that purported to give a documentary view of their family -- so they could argue that they weren't public figures, just folks living their everyday lives, so we're not going to play "gotcha" with them -- There are no public issues involved, right? Nothing they do is really any of our business. So that suggested bypassing tough questioning, too.

 

And then, finally and probably most significantly, they played the church card (and the motherhood and apple pie card, too) and people REALLY hang back from asking tough questions of an apparently sweet Christian mom.

 

The thing is, asking the tough questions as a journalist is actually hard -- intellectually, emotionally. You need guts to do it, and you need to carefully work out what you're going to ask so that you elicit real answers and don't let people slip away -- landing the right follow-ups at the right moment is hard work. .....And most people want to avoid such hard work.

 

Furthermore, TV entertainment-type journalists -- who are the ones who mostly interviewed the Duggars -- aren't used to doing that kind of tough questioning and would rather not, particularly when it involves questioning an aw-shucks good old papa and a sweet high-voiced Christian mom, who are sitting there in front of them with all their million kids. Not good for the reporter's image! Harassing these nice people in front of their 10-year-old little darlings? And entertainment reporters are tv stars, too.

 

Asking them the tough questions just wasn't going to happen, even if they hadn't put a prohibition on it, I expect.

[autumnh]

Quiverfull of Shit....good article.

 

http://gawker.com/quiverfull-of-shit-a-guide-to-the-duggars-scary-brand-1706557073?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[Quilt Fairy]

once TLC officially says bye-bye, some network is sure to want 'in' on the Duggars.

 

Don't say goodbye yet. If you look at the TLC listings starting in June, they still show 19K&C. This may just be an oversight on someone's part.

[Potato511]

 

Also a couple of detailed pieces over there on ATI teachings on sex (including full text of a Wisdom Booklet) and the idea that it's everybody's fault but the perpetrator's -- in other words, how ATI may have helped Smuggar become so smug. Same old stuff, of course, but much more detail than I'd seen before. 

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/atis-sex-ed-curriculum-silencing-victims-and-excusing-sex-crime/

Whoa. Reposting for others. Content warning for sexual abuse.

 

I live in NYC and Verizon Fios still has 5 episodes up.

Six episodes still available on Time Warner Cable. They have removed Episode #20, Duggars' Guide to Love

Edited May 25, 2015 by Potato511

[BulldogAreGreat]

Anna is an absolute moron. If Josh really did confess this to her, like she says in the People statement, and she decided she still wanted to marry him and have children with him after he said "I molested five girls, four of my sisters, some while they were sleeping" then she is a fucking lunatic. What kind of person would marry someone after hearing that? So I have to assume that she couldn't have possibly really known that. It's too pathetic. So she's making this public statement that she knew and she's okay with it, which is so stupid and gross. If she stays with this man she is the stupidest person I've ever seen on television. And I watch Teen Mom so that's saying a lot. How can she stay with him and say "I love you" and let him put his disgusting penis inside of her ? I would throw up.

I just don't, or can't, believe that Anna knew. What person in their right mind would marry into that? Especially knowing that she would be having kids as soon as possible. I'm a casual watcher at best. I read more here than I spend time watching the show, but from what I have seen she does seem like a good mother. Her kids seem engaged in that they are doing, excited, and interested. She appears to truly love them and care about them and for them. From what I have seen of her as a mother, I just can't believe that she knew. 

[Wellfleet]

Didn't take the fucker long to pull the liberal-smear conspiracy/ they hate us for the sake of Christ!- card did it? Not gonna fly.  I've seen him express more outrage over the over the "sin" and error of simply being a Catholic than he does over Josh's proven crimes of Incest and Child molestation.

 

I'm guessing that Boob might have floated Pa Seewald a few bills for doing this. Seriously.

[Potato511]

Am I the only one who can't make any sense out of the second paragraph here? Wander woman, what are: cache, ammo can, cacher, ammo cabs, premium, sl and swag?

I am betting the OP unintentionally copied some unrelated text in there, whoops...

[Churchhoney]

I just don't, or can't, believe that Anna knew. What person in their right mind would marry into that? Especially knowing that she would be having kids as soon as possible. I'm a casual watcher at best. I read more here than I spend time watching the show, but from what I have seen she does seem like a good mother. Her kids seem engaged in that they are doing, excited, and interested. She appears to truly love them and care about them and for them. From what I have seen of her as a mother, I just can't believe that she knew. 

 

I agree with you. I think she knew that he made some "bad mistakes as a young teenager that were sexual in nature." Period. She'd count that as "knowing" because that's still how he and the rents describe it, basically.

[farmgal4]

I just don't, or can't, believe that Anna knew. What person in their right mind would marry into that? Especially knowing that she would be having kids as soon as possible. I'm a casual watcher at best. I read more here than I spend time watching the show, but from what I have seen she does seem like a good mother. Her kids seem engaged in that they are doing, excited, and interested. She appears to truly love them and care about them and for them. From what I have seen of her as a mother, I just can't believe that she knew.

I don't know exactly how it was spelled out to Anna; probably something along the lines of Josh having "impure thoughts" and maybe that he touched "a" girl inappropriately which, in Anna's mind, could have been something as innocent as hand-holding. I would bet money that she was NEVER told that his sisters were involved. I'm going to give Anna the benefit of the doubt here and say that I don't think that she would have married him had she known that there was incest involved, but I could be wrong. What do y'all think?

Edited to add: I feel very sorry for Anna. I think Josh was like a knight-in-shining-armor to her. The Duggar family had everything that Anna's family didn't have, and I think she thought she was living a fairytale when Josh proposed to her. I think back to that pillow she had made that said "Josh and Anna" or some other dorky something written on it, and she slept on that pillow every night. I mean, the girl couldn't take her eyes off of him when they were together! He was her Romeo (I know <gag>) and now she finds this out. I can't even begin to imagine how she must feel right now. I just feel really, really bad for her right now. She was duped and she did not deserve this. Fuck you, Josh, Boob and Clown Car! Just fuck you!

Edited May 26, 2015 by farmgal4

[RazzleberryPie]

I think Anna, Jim Bob, and Michelle are very naive when it comes to Josh. Even without any professional treatment or evaluation they truly believe in their confused, brainwashed minds that he is cured. Now Josh - I think Josh is as sly as a fox.

I think Anna is Naive, JimBob is as sly as Josh, and Michelle is somewhere in the middle. I think Anna and her parents fully knew he had impure thoughts and touched other girls without their permission. YOu have to remember that their doctrine/teachings are insistent that men can't control their urges, women tempt them, and all this inappropriateness - even with your blood relatives who are children - happens all the time, but here's your solution: blame the victim, pray, cover up, put very little responsibility on the molester. 

 

Didn't take the fucker long to pull the liberal-smear conspiracy/ they hate us for the sake of Christ!- card did it? Not gonna fly.  I've seen him express more outrage over the over the "sin" and error of simply being a Catholic than he does over Josh's proven crimes of Incest and Child molestation.

Starting off with deflecting the real issue and blaming the liberal media is where he lost any credibility.

Edited May 26, 2015 by RazzleberryPie

[Fuzzysox]

I don't know exactly how it was spelled out to Anna; probably something along the lines of Josh having "impure thoughts" and maybe that he touched "a" girl inappropriately which, in Anna's mind, could have been something as innocent as hand-holding. I would bet money that she was NEVER told that his sisters were involved. I'm going to give Anna the benefit of the doubt here and say that I don't think that she would have married him had she known that there was incest involved, but I could be wrong. What do y'all think?

I think the same thing. Anna was not told the whole truth. If she had I highly doubt any normal woman would want to have a child with a man who couldn't control himself. I'm not buying the whole 14 and he was playing doctor. Josh is really twisted and doesn't know the difference between right and wrong.

 

First born son who got a free pass of no consequences makes a man who is just plain scum to me for feeling no remorse. He shows no shame either. Nasty trash. ewww

[wanderwoman]

I don't know exactly how it was spelled out to Anna; probably something along the lines of Josh having "impure thoughts" and maybe that he touched "a" girl inappropriately which, in Anna's mind, could have been something as innocent as hand-holding. I would bet money that she was NEVER told that his sisters were involved. I'm going to give Anna the benefit of the doubt here and say that I don't think that she would have married him had she known that there was incest involved, but I could be wrong. What do y'all think?

I think Anna knew. I think she was young and overly trusting and figured that God changed his heart because her dad said Josh was a good guy. I think we need to remember that Anna trusted her dad to say yes or no to a courtship with Josh. Her dad's mission in life was to change convicts' hearts to God. Josh might have been an example for him.

[BostonBlonde]

I couldn't stomach watching more than a few episodes but the episode "Duggars in Cuffs" is the only one available here. 

 

True. Story.

 

Someone at Boston Xfinity is witty.

Edited May 26, 2015 by BostonBlonde

[autumnh]

I just don't, or can't, believe that Anna knew. What person in their right mind would marry into that? Especially knowing that she would be having kids as soon as possible. I'm a casual watcher at best. I read more here than I spend time watching the show, but from what I have seen she does seem like a good mother. Her kids seem engaged in that they are doing, excited, and interested. She appears to truly love them and care about them and for them. From what I have seen of her as a mother, I just can't believe that she knew. 

 

I don't believe for one moment that Anna had any clue. I think the JB & M army told her she better just go along. I SERIOUSLY doubt Michelle is using her "sweet & precious" voice when she has been barking orders over the past week.

[Muffyn]

Celia Rubenstein, thank you for saying what I tried to say about Pa Seewald's posting.  It is not the liberal media going after this "holy" family.  It is not an issue of sin alone.  Josh committed criminal acts against his sister and another girl.  In his ministry, Pa may feel that leading convicts to Jesus will save them from committing such offenses.  Josh already had Jesus in his life, so what's his excuse.

 

A few years ago, I was driving through Nevada.  I could only get a religious station on the radio.  A preacher was talking about coveting. It started off well, focusing on why we covet things that others have and learning to happy with what you have, only looking to others to see if they needed help.  Then it took an unexpected turn, talking about incest and bestiality. I mentioned this to my niece who was raised in a religious cult; she said I wouldn't believe how often these topics were discussed, like every dog, kitten, chicken and deer in the area had best watch out because the only thing keeping people from raping animals was the bible.  Otherwise we are out of control.  Incest was addressed the same way, as if only their biblical teachings and the strict oversight of the group were preventing incest.  Maybe this lecture was meant for the Joshes of the world.  I hope the animals are safe from his urges.  After all, they don't wear clothing.  They could be defrauding him right now!  /sarcasm