Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[Nysha]

I believed that Spurgeon was actually saying the stuff Jessa posted. I also didn't mind her thinking he was a child prodigy for it since he's her first child. But I 'm pretty sure that Henry didn't say anything close to what she posted about Grandma Mimi. It's too complete and sophisticated for a three-year-old.

[PradaKitty]

Especially a three year old with speech delays!

[lookeyloo]

4 hours ago, PradaKitty said:

Especially a three year old with speech delays!

I'm thinking the speech delays were part of a TLC Plot line.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, lookeyloo said:

I'm thinking the speech delays were part of a TLC Plot line.

No, he's behind. He was still being captioned as recently as the quarantine videos done around April or May. He turned 3 in February or March.

eta: I also watched their fireworks video, and Henry was still hard to understand.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Sew Sumi

[Absolom]

His speech isn't advanced or clear, but he's probably getting close to average.  

[lookeyloo]

27 minutes ago, Absolom said:

His speech isn't advanced or clear, but he's probably getting close to average.  

I think if he went to preschool or was around more kids he would speed up. He is coming along. My late brother didn’t have intelligible speech til he was around 5. He got a PHD.  Niece didn’t make any sounds and pediatrician said they wouldn’t evaluate her til age 3 at which time she started talking. About to graduate college. Granted some children have legitimate diagnoses but some just take a little longer. Like with potty training. 

[Sew Sumi]

I'm not arguing Henry's intelligence, or lack thereof. Just reporting that he's still delayed. 

[lookeyloo]

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I'm not arguing Henry's intelligence, or lack thereof. Just reporting that he's still delayed. 

Got it!!

[floridamom]

Henry is 3? After watching and listening to the 4th of July video, he is delayed IMO. My son was also. He needed speech therapy (private lessons, one on one) AND he was enrolled at 3 yrs old in our public school pre-K class with 4 year olds to help him along. Worked beautifully. He speaks clearly and annunciates well. Henry will not get the help he needs, sadly from his parents.

[GeeGolly]

43 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Henry is 3? After watching and listening to the 4th of July video, he is delayed IMO. My son was also. He needed speech therapy (private lessons, one on one) AND he was enrolled at 3 yrs old in our public school pre-K class with 4 year olds to help him along. Worked beautifully. He speaks clearly and annunciates well. Henry will not get the help he needs, sadly from his parents.

Hopefully he'll benefit from hanging with all the cousins. Although I believe one of Anna's kids has a speech delay as well.

[galaxygirl76]

He should benefit from having Spurgie as his best friend since he's a genius that's known for his sayings.

[ginger90]

 

[DangerousMinds]

Sure, Jessa.

[Sew Sumi]

🙄

[Chicklet]

Oh dear little Henry, we too, have climbed out of our skin when exposed to your family.

[GeeGolly]

The chair near the books and toys, screams Michelle. If she was being annoyed by a kid she would have them sit with a book until she said it was okay to get up. A time-out of sorts.

It bugs me because I would never want my kids to associate books with anything negative.

[Sew Sumi]

I didn't realize that there were any books in Duggarville aside from the bible. 🙄

At least Jessa has actual books.

[Chicklet]

28 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

It bugs me because I would never want my kids to associate books with anything negative.

Well they wouldn't want those poor kids thinking that education and reading were worth anything would they? I mean they might learn that Gothard was full of it and that King James didn't actually write that bible (gasp).

Edited July 19, 2020 by Chicklet
It's the heat AND the humidity ugh

[GeeGolly]

Michelle Duggar:

It's not for correction, because I learned early on from a book that I read, The Heart of Anger, the sorts of things kids are struggling with in their heart, and I remember thinking, "I don't want my children to feel angry. I want them to feel like I'm there for them." So I give them constructive things to do with their energy, and to learn to practice self-control.
The idea is that they think, "Wow, I feel good about myself now. I've obeyed Mommy. I've sat here for 15 minutes, read this book, calmed down, didn't have to get in trouble, but actually sat and looked at a book for 15 minutes. And now I can get up and go do something else."

[JoanArc]

56 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Michelle Duggar:

It's not for correction, because I learned early on from a book that I read, The Heart of Anger, the sorts of things kids are struggling with in their heart, and I remember thinking, "I don't want my children to feel angry. I want them to feel like I'm there for them." So I give them constructive things to do with their energy, and to learn to practice self-control.
The idea is that they think, "Wow, I feel good about myself now. I've obeyed Mommy. I've sat here for 15 minutes, read this book, calmed down, didn't have to get in trouble, but actually sat and looked at a book for 15 minutes. And now I can get up and go do something else."

“Wow, I balanced on this ledge for 15 minutes without falling!  I feel so good about myself now. I obeyed mommy. I balanced for 15 minutes, screamed my head off, and got no attention from my teenage adult parents, and didn’t get in any trouble. Now I can jump down and do something else. “

[crazy8s]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Michelle Duggar:

It's not for correction, because I learned early on from a book that I read, The Heart of Anger, the sorts of things kids are struggling with in their heart, and I remember thinking, "I don't want my children to feel angry. I want them to feel like I'm there for them." So I give them constructive things to do with their energy, and to learn to practice self-control.
The idea is that they think, "Wow, I feel good about myself now. I've obeyed Mommy. I've sat here for 15 minutes, read this book, calmed down, didn't have to get in trouble, but actually sat and looked at a book for 15 minutes. And now I can get up and go do something else."

I had my head stuck in this railing for 15min while I was filmed and laughed at, now I can go do something else

[ginger90]

19 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

I had my head stuck in this railing for 15min while I was filmed and laughed at, now I can go do something else

And mama was there for me.

Edited July 19, 2020 by ginger90

[madpsych78]

"Wow, I fell into this orchestra pit. I'm in a whole lot of pain, but I must keep sweet. I've obeyed mommy by keeping myself calm. And now I'd like to get up and do something else, but I can't move." 

[Marshmallow Mollie]

Uhhhh anger is a natural emotion. It’s okay for children to be angry. It’s okay to be angry as a parent. The important thing is that you know/model healthy ways to resolve anger. Sitting and reading the Bible for 15 minutes isn’t it.

[Suzn]

16 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Michelle Duggar:

It's not for correction, because I learned early on from a book that I read, The Heart of Anger, the sorts of things kids are struggling with in their heart, and I remember thinking, "I don't want my children to feel angry. I want them to feel like I'm there for them." So I give them constructive things to do with their energy, and to learn to practice self-control.
The idea is that they think, "Wow, I feel good about myself now. I've obeyed Mommy. I've sat here for 15 minutes, read this book, calmed down, didn't have to get in trouble, but actually sat and looked at a book for 15 minutes. And now I can get up and go do something else."

This is a deeply disturbing way to think.  As Marshmallow Mollie writes, anger is a natural emotion and to repress it in this way is really completely nuts (to use technical terminology 🤣).  The very idea that the child will think "Wow, I feel good about myself now. I've obeyed Mommy", is completely disconnected from reality.  These various concepts: energy, self-control, obeying Mommy, and not getting in trouble, have nothing to do with feeling anger and learning how to deal with it.  What a convoluted, fucked up way to think of normal emotions.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Suzn said:

This is a deeply disturbing way to think.  As Marshmallow Mollie writes, anger is a natural emotion and to repress it in this way is really completely nuts (to use technical terminology 🤣).  The very idea that the child will think "Wow, I feel good about myself now. I've obeyed Mommy", is completely disconnected from reality.  These various concepts: energy, self-control, obeying Mommy, and not getting in trouble, have nothing to do with feeling anger and learning how to deal with it.  What a convoluted, fucked up way to think of normal emotions.

So true. Yet, I'm sure Michelle never made that connection. Because Jesus. Because Bible.

[Dimi1]

All the talk about speech delays for kids...reminds me of a guy we met in Denmark and were seated with at a dinner...I will swear to you...I could not understand one thing he said to my husband and I...and he was speaking English...:)....I am from the south and sometimes I meet people from different parts of the state and I do not understand them sometimes either...but for kids...My grand daughter just turned 5,,,she struggles with "R"s and "W"s and a few other things...but we have tons of teachers in the family and they say this is normal for some kids....

 

[JoanArc]

9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

So true. Yet, I'm sure Michelle never made that connection. Because Jesus. Because Bible.

Because Michelle’s own internal psychological environment is convoluted and fucked up.

[Nysha]

11 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Because Michelle’s own internal psychological environment is convoluted and fucked up.

Not allowing children to show anger was a pretty common parenting technique before the 70s and still persists in a lot of families now, especially those in rigid religions.

[Barb23]

On 7/17/2020 at 3:07 PM, QuinnInND said:

 

Does this scene have anyone else upset?

Why are they in bare feet?   Why aren't they wearing tie up shoes like tennis shoes?  Any of them could have stepped on a (sharp) piece of whatever was left from the sparklers or fireworks (or anything on the lawn like a sharp stone)& injured their foot. Something still could get  caught in flip flops, that's why I said tie up shoes.

Why are they doing any type of fireworks with kids their ages wandering around to begin with? I didn't watch the entire video but Henry looks like he had the most sense when he tried to pull Ivy away from a certain  area.

Maybe Ben should have tested a few by himself  away from the kids to see how "kid-friendly" they were.

But I'm still going with my opinion  that any type of fire work or sparkler is NOT kid friendly.  

THEY ARE IDIOTS !!

Edited July 20, 2020 by Barb23

[farmgal4]

52 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Not allowing children to show anger was a pretty common parenting technique before the 70s and still persists in a lot of families now, especially those in rigid religions.

You’re exactly right, Nysha.  I was born in 1960, and I wouldn’t have dared to show anger when I was growing up.  I would’ve gotten the switch, if I had.  It took years of therapy to undo the harm that my parents did to me, and most of my friends were raised in the same manner that I was.  I’m sorry for getting off-topic.

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

Not allowing children to show anger was a pretty common parenting technique before the 70s and still persists in a lot of families now, especially those in rigid religions.

 I’m not convinced Michelle even thinks there are actual people other than herself.

Edited July 20, 2020 by JoanArc

[farmgal4]

16 hours ago, ginger90 said:

And mama was there for me.

MEshelle looks batshit crazy in that pic.

[DangerousMinds]

43 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

Does this scene have anyone else upset?

Why are they in bare feet?   Why aren't they wearing tie up shoes like tennis shoes?  Any of them could have stepped on a (sharp) piece of whatever was left from the sparklers or fireworks (or anything on the lawn like a sharp stone)& injured their foot. Something still could get  caught in flip flops, that's why I said tie up shoes.

Why are they doing any type of fireworks with kids their ages wandering around to begin with? I didn't watch the entire video but Henry looks like he had the most sense when he tried to pull Ivy away from a certain  area.

Maybe Ben should have tested a few by himself  away from the kids to see how "kid-friendly" they were.

But I'm still going with my opinion  that any type of fire work or sparkler is NOT kid friendly.  

THEY ARE IDIOTS !!

Remember these are the same hillbilly twats who also give kids guns to pose with. Idiots.

[Churchhoney]

As we know, people who blanket train are not part of a culture that realizes children have any right at all to be angry (or a lot of other normal things), ever. The aim of parents in their culture is -- as millions and millions of people have said for centuries and centuries -- to break the kid's will and/or break the kid's spirit (whichever).  

I.e., teach it, by hook or crook, to repress virtually all its naturally occurring emotions and desires on its own before it bothers its parents with such undesirable things. 

This book ritual is Meeechelle doing things in a way the Gothard/Duggar/etc crew believe will sound more acceptable to modern, secular types who disagree with them than the blanket training which they all also embraced but learned to hide from the public. I'm sure they'd be disappointed to find that so many people still disagree with their more subtle methods of rejecting all of children's emotions and desires and devising as many ploys as they can to "train" said kids to reject those things on their own as soon as they notice them lurking within. 

Because they're control freaks who believe that getting kids to suppress everything parents find inconvenient is really really really really really what the correct Jesus wants. And once again we see that, surprise!, the correct Jesus wants exactly what control-freak parents want!

(I was raised by people like this,  and they weren't even of the religious kind. Just the kind who operated by common childrearing rules of repressive cultures and centuries past. And when offered something in life that I really really want -- anything, large or small -- even now,  today, my brain's first instinct is to come up with dozens of reasons why I will not take this thing and I do not want it. And when I have a strong emotion of any kind,  my first instinct is to hit myself in the head to drive the emotion away, the way I learned to do as a child. I don't any longer act on this stuff, in the long run. But it took a lot of therapeutic work to get over that. The "training" these people do works.. As I've said before, the Duggars don't have the habits of freedom -- either exercising it or encouraging others to have it.)

 

44 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

MEshelle looks batshit crazy in that pic.

Cameras can capture the soul! 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

You’re exactly right, Nysha.  I was born in 1960, and I wouldn’t have dared to show anger when I was growing up.  I would’ve gotten the switch, if I had.  It took years of therapy to undo the harm that my parents did to me, and most of my friends were raised in the same manner that I was.  I’m sorry for getting off-topic.

I am older than you and though there was a great deal therapy-worthy in my upbringing, I was not expected to repress anger.  A lot was expected from me, but I think I was allowed to feel what I felt.

Topic: Michelle looks like a lunatic.  MOTY needs a lot of medication.

[JoanArc]

Quote

As we know, people who blanket train are not part of a culture that realizes children have any right at all to be angry (or a lot of other normal things), ever. The aim of parents in their culture is -- as millions and millions of people have said for centuries and centuries -- to break the kid's will and/or break the kid's spirit (whichever).  

Your entire reply was fantastic. What really pisses me off is that Michelle had such a cake childhood, is the baby of the family, even admitting that she never had chores.  Popular girl at school, boyfriends, And fairly well liked socially. Married a guy who, wasn’t super rich, but a social class above her, And only got famous for having sex 19 times.  I know she was kind of poor for a while, and did have the laundry room breakdown, but still a lot of peoples childhood and early adulthood’s are much much worse. How she can go from having it so easy to basically torturing kids eludes me. Except, that she does not really see them as people, but as extensions of herself, simply existing to further greatness of Michelle Duggar.  The fact that she just cannot take a backseat on the show is testament to her ego. 

 She might have saved herself from having to deal with childhood anger from the kids, we just wait until she gets a face full of nearly two dozen adults that are pissed off at her. When the money and fame dry up,and she’s. Looking down the geriatric years, that’s likely what will happen. Derreck and his potentially righteous anger is basically a softball, and they can’t even get that under control. Imagine if Jill herself has some anger she expresses.  There ain’t gonna be a lot of keeping sweet or restraint. God forbid they piss off Jessa.

For the record, I was raised in that time. I was allowed to express anger. I suffered more from the “the father should be absent in the child’s emotional life “school of parenting.

[GeeGolly]

Parenting has definitely come a long way since, wait until your father gets home. I think in the 50s & 60s most parents didn't intentionally teach their kids to repress their feelings, many just ignored negative feelings and most parents didn't explore feelings with kids. If you don't get comforting support or a reaction at all, you quickly learn to let the feeling go.

Who knows what kind of parent Michelle would have been without Gothard. From the little she's shared I would say she would have been a yell-er, with little follow through.

 

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Parenting has definitely come a long way since, wait until your father gets home. I think in the 50s & 60s most parents didn't intentionally teach their kids to repress their feelings, many just ignored negative feelings and most parents didn't explore feelings with kids. If you don't get comforting support or a reaction at all, you quickly learn to let the feeling go.

Who knows what kind of parent Michelle would have been without Gothard. From the little she's shared I would say she would have been a yell-er, with little follow through.

 

Parenting is subject to trends and fads as much as to research and learning.  Styles change and each kind of parenting leaves a different kind of dysfunction.  I won't torture you with what I see wrong with typical parenting today.

The year 2020: I do have worries and difficulties with the events of the year.  I'm concerned with things happening in society and things too political into go into here, but at the same time I am hanging on to the bright spots of the year for me.  I got the kittens in January and they bring joy every day.  I got cataract surgery and now can see clearly to drive without glasses - it's a miracle!

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Parenting is subject to trends and fads as much as to research and learning.  Styles change and each kind of parenting leaves a different kind of dysfunction.  I won't torture you with what I see wrong with typical parenting today.

The year 2020: I do have worries and difficulties with the events of the year.  I'm concerned with things happening in society and things too political into go into here, but at the same time I am hanging on to the bright spots of the year for me.  I got the kittens in January and they bring joy every day.  I got cataract surgery and now can see clearly to drive without glasses - it's a miracle!

Agree. The good thing is kids are adaptable and resilient. Most come out on the better part of fine.

[crazy8s]

12 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Parenting is subject to trends and fads as much as to research and learning.  Styles change and each kind of parenting leaves a different kind of dysfunction.  I won't torture you with what I see wrong with typical parenting today.

My daughter and I have been having some laughs on this lately. My step mom is big on FB posts about the trouble with kids today is they need more ass whupping, or be paddled in school etc. whenever there is a news story with a person of any age,  licking, spitting on, or swearing at someone for being asked to wear a mask or social distance, etc  we say "What is wrong with people??" One of us says "maybe their ass wasn't whupped enough when they were a kid"

 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, crazy8s said:

My daughter and I have been having some laughs on this lately. My step mom is big on FB posts about the trouble with kids today is they need more ass whupping, or be paddled in school etc. whenever there is a news story with a person of any age,  licking, spitting on, or swearing at someone for being asked to wear a mask or social distance, etc  we say "What is wrong with people??" One of us says "maybe their ass wasn't whupped enough when they were a kid"

 

I find it funny when older folks post that stuff, because their generation raised these supposed, permissive and indulgent parents.

[Absolom]

The self-esteem movement has a lot to answer for it seems.

[crazy8s]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I find it funny when older folks post that stuff, because their generation raised these supposed, permissive and indulgent parents.

exactly - the kids who were beaten refused to do that to their own children and they are in reality complaining about their grandchildren

[JoanArc]

24 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I find it funny when older folks post that stuff, because their generation raised these supposed, permissive and indulgent parents.

 Over the span of 100 years we went from near zero information about popular psychology and counseling through several distinct movements and lots and lots of science combined with trial and error. There are bound to be bumps along the way. The world itself has changed so much, with wars, economics, and expectations.  I guess I would be a weirdo parent in thinking my children really shouldn’t have screens at all until they are late teenagers, and only watch a bit of television here and there. I’m sure that is abusive to other people. 

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

rom the little she's shared I would say she would have been a yell-er, with little follow through.

 She pretty much is, except she managed to convert the yelling into baby whispers. 

[Suzn]

44 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I find it funny when older folks post that stuff, because their generation raised these supposed, permissive and indulgent parents.

The pendulum just keeps swinging... will the indulged children clamp down on their children?  Actually there are other factors at play and I doubt it. 

[Mojitogirl]

I think it’s funny that Ivy is always shown with Sophie the giraffe who is named after St. Madeline Sophie, Catholic saint and founder of the Sacred Heart. If I was a petty social media person, I would hashtag #wearesacredheart on her post so she would show up among so many evil, strong, independent Catholic women of Sacred Heart education. 

[Nysha]

49 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

exactly - the kids who were beaten refused to do that to their own children and they are in reality complaining about their grandchildren

I'm going to take my response to Small Talk.

[crazy8s]

so to get back on the Duggars and topic - of the duggar grands jill, jinger  jessa, joe and joy's kids really don't seem to have been blanket trained as far as the pics show. they seem to enjoy posting the "cute" pics of the boys at least, involved in climbing, fun and mischief

[Sew Sumi]

32 minutes ago, Mojitogirl said:

I think it’s funny that Ivy is always shown with Sophie the giraffe who is named after St. Madeline Sophie, Catholic saint and founder of the Sacred Heart. If I was a petty social media person, I would hashtag #wearesacredheart on her post so she would show up among so many evil, strong, independent Catholic women of Sacred Heart education. 

She would delete and block you.