The Bachelor Season 21: Spoilers and Speculation

[deSchenke]

I don't know where to post this, as it is in reference to the "coming next week" preview we saw after Monday's show.  But I find it interesting that very little is shown in preview of the hometown dates.  I think we get a glimpse of Corrine and Nick walking out a door of a house - alone.  I'm wondering if he told Corrine he wasn't feeling it and left in the middle of dinner!  

The rest of the preview all seemed to be shot in Finland.

[truthaboutluv]

People.com  has a promo that show quite a bit of each HTD and also fully spoils that Andi's the one at the door. ABC.com has also posted short clips of Raven and Corinne's HTD's. 

[RHJunkie]

18 hours ago, deSchenke said:

I don't know where to post this, as it is in reference to the "coming next week" preview we saw after Monday's show.  But I find it interesting that very little is shown in preview of the hometown dates.  I think we get a glimpse of Corrine and Nick walking out a door of a house - alone.  I'm wondering if he told Corrine he wasn't feeling it and left in the middle of dinner!  

The rest of the preview all seemed to be shot in Finland.

Because the episode structure has been so wonky this year - they likely don't end the episode with a rose ceremony. Based on the way Nick has dealt with the eliminations once the pack got down to a relatively low number of women, I think he may remain consistent and give the girl a one on one discussion and goodbye rather than do a rose ceremony and let her wait and be unexpectedly disappointed by the result. They could have blended a preview of two week's worth of episodes into one preview. I'm going to guess that by the end of next week's episode we'll see them actually go to Finland and they'll find something to latch on to as the cliffhanger.

[Wings]

http://people.com/tv/bachelor-nick-viall-hometown-dates-meets-corinne-nanny-andi-dorfman/

When Andi says, hello Nick it reminds me of either a line from a movie or actor or comic or probably both.  Help me place it, please.  It is driving me nuts!

[Wings]

I got it!  Seinfeld.  Hellllllo Newman.  

[Ripley68]

My conspiracy theory this week...All this Rachel stuff is a plant and she is who he actually chose (which I know isn't the case, just throwing it out there cause my brain spirals all over the place).

[Bugs Meany]

On 2/24/2017 at 0:36 PM, Ripley68 said:

My conspiracy theory this week...All this Rachel stuff is a plant and she is who he actually chose (which I know isn't the case, just throwing it out there cause my brain spirals all over the place).

I guess you don't need to talked out of this theory, but anyway, that could neverevereverevereverever happen. "You know all that 'first black Bachelorette' stuff? Haha, just kidding! It's gonna be Raven." The fact that Rachel 'won' would not be any consolation.

[DEL901]

Can't post these details in the media thread.

The new Life and Style confirms Raven and Vanessa as the final 2.  It also says that the runner up hated the location (wanted a place like Bora Bora... that comment could apply to either of them) and also says that the runner up sometimes held things up because she didn't want to go out in the cold (Vanessa is from Montreal.  It's cold there in the winter.  She might not like it, but she knows how to handle it.)

The article also says Nick lead the runner up along. 

[Mabinogia]

14 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

The article also says Nick lead the runner up along. 

So, like every single bachelor and bachelorette since the show started? lol

If I were the location scout I'd sleep with one eye open. Raven might come after them with her other stiletto. Personally, I have always wanted to see the northern lights so I'd be excited about the location finally not being a beach.

[huahaha]

4 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Can't post these details in t

The new Life and Style confirms Raven and Vanessa as the final 2.

I wouldn't bother with Life & Style. It's just a tabloid. In another week, they'll be publishing that Vanessa may be pregnant, and Nick is flirting with Kaitlyn. If they publish a true story, it's mostly accidental.

[DriveInSaturday]

On 2/26/2017 at 3:12 PM, DEL901 said:

Can't post these details in the media thread.

The new Life and Style confirms Raven and Vanessa as the final 2.  It also says that the runner up hated the location (wanted a place like Bora Bora... that comment could apply to either of them) and also says that the runner up sometimes held things up because she didn't want to go out in the cold (Vanessa is from Montreal.  It's cold there in the winter.  She might not like it, but she knows how to handle it.)

The article also says Nick lead the runner up along. 

I can totally see that "lead on" thing. Either as a matter of principal or the producers not wanting to make Nick look bad, I think they wanted to avoid the "close runner up" scenario that Nick was in twice in a row. Besides Rachel, I saw Nick as having more chemistry with Kristina and Corinne than Raven. Maybe even Danielle L, too.

I think they went a bit too hard, though, because even though having a clear non-option as F2 is easier on the lead it makes the viewing experience crappier.

On 2/24/2017 at 0:36 PM, Ripley68 said:

My conspiracy theory this week...All this Rachel stuff is a plant and she is who he actually chose (which I know isn't the case, just throwing it out there cause my brain spirals all over the place).

My actual conspiracy theory on this point is that the outcome was at least in part "produced" (i.e. achieved via subtle manipulation) in the UnReal sense. They might have really been selling Rachel on the 'real prize' of Bachelorette even in-season during filming, making her less vested in building a relationship, and actively nudging Nick more towards Vanessa/Raven/others. I also think Vanessa was told things to make her more confident, but it only served to make her more paranoid because of her personality type (I can relate, tbh).

[DriveInSaturday]

Also, per RS (if you don't want to give him clicks) via reddit, this is what went down between Rachel and Vanessa. This would have been such good TV, omg. But it does make the winner look like a crazy, insecure and manipulative villain and the next Bachelorette seem like a Taylor Swift-style queen bee with her #girlsquad which is hardly appealing either so I can see why they cut it.

-Vanessa approached Rachel in Bimini. She felt that Rachel wasn’t being “real” with her. Vanessa told Rachel she felt like she was bullying her in the house and ostracized her with the other women because Rachel rolled her eyes and didn’t look her in eyes during “girl chats.” She accused of her of using her “lawyer” traits and that her tone was intimidating.

-Rachel took offense to it because she didn’t see that as bullying. Vanessa backtracked on saying she felt she was ostracized in the house. Rachel told Vanessa she didn’t have a problem with her but that Vanessa made her uncomfortable.

-Said that she didn’t want to align herself with someone like Vanessa because of how she was two-faced with a few of the girls in the house. She would buddy up to tehm, relay that information on to Nick, and then go back to pretending to be friends with the girls.

-The examples that I was told were: Vanessa turned on Taylor when Taylor wasn’t popular in the house, she defriended Sarah when Nick’s friends came over for a group talk to all the girls in Wisconsin (something else that I reported but was never shown), and also tried to fake a friendship with Corinne. Rachel told Vanessa in Bimini she just wanted to keep her distance from her.

-Vanessa told Rachel she told Nick about how Rachel felt about her, and I guess that was the last straw that set Rachel off. Vanessa’s M.O. in the house was that of someone who was “manipulatively attempting to take down those she felt threatened by.”

-Vanessa was one way on camera and another way off camera with girls, and the relationship with Danielle Lo was another one used. This was the one I’d heard originally that I reported to you, in that Vanessa used her group date time with Nick in Wisconsin to “warn” him about Danielle L., who he had just been on a date with the day before, but then all we saw was them being chummy at the cocktail party in Wisconsin. She’d basically say one thing about girls then do the complete opposite when they weren’t around.

-I’m also told that the tweet Vanessa sent out the night Rachel was announced as the “Bachelorette” congratulating her was another example of how Vanessa operated. To the public, it looks like she’s supporting one of her “friends” from the show, but in reality, it was completely insincere and done to make herself look better as there’s zero relationship between Vanessa and Rachel.

-Post show, it is very apparent who is on TeamRachel and who is on TeamVanessa. Rachel was universally liked in the house and there aren’t many girls who had an issue with her. Vanessa is a different story.

Edited March 2, 2017 by DriveInSaturday

[Canada]

I would be shocked if Vanessa and Nick are really still together.  I can't see them as a couple and Vanessa just seems unpleasant. 

[catrice2]

I would not be surprised if they are still "together" because of course they want to milk all the publicity for as long as possible. I would be surprised, however, if it lasts.   Vanessa seems to be a nice person, I just think this show makes everyone look bad.  

Nick is hard to read, but the fact that this is this 4th or 5th time on one of these type shows makes me think he has issues and/or an agenda..not that they all don't but some people know when to get on with their regular lives. 

The 

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but in my opinion this sounds like a whole lot of nothing blown into something bigger by RS because it's what he does. It just sounded like two women who were stuck in a weird situation together who didn't like each other. The stuff about Vanessa's being two-faced strangely doesn't sound like it because he's saying she told Rachel to her face she spoke to Nick about the situation. And how would the women know she spoke to Nick about Danielle L. if she didn't admit it since I can't see Nick saying to Danielle, "so Vanessa told me this". Even if it was her admitting it to one of the other women, that's still not exactly hiding what she did. 

And his comment about Vanessa's tweet congratulating Rachel was funny - he was told that was proof of how she operates? Told by who? What she called one of the women who were at the WTA, since she's been in Montreal, and went, "so I totally don't mean that tweet but I know it will look nice so I'm sending it". Seriously?

More like it's his opinion that she did it to make herself look good publicly but she and Rachel are clearly not friends. And I'm not saying that's not true but that's the kind of stuff that makes me just side eye RS.  Sure he hears stuff and gets spoilers about what happens but he also tends to input his own opinion and judgement about these people and reports those opinions it like it's fact.

Edited March 2, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Fake Britt]

On 2/17/2017 at 5:38 PM, wings707 said:

http://people.com/tv/bachelor-nick-viall-hometown-dates-meets-corinne-nanny-andi-dorfman/

When Andi says, hello Nick it reminds me of either a line from a movie or actor or comic or probably both.  Help me place it, please.  It is driving me nuts!

The way Andi said it, it sounded like a Bette Davis quote from All About Eve.  :-)

Edited March 2, 2017 by Fake Britt
Edited to add: "Fasten your seatbelt Nick, it's going to be a bumpy night!"

[ByTor]

On 3/1/2017 at 10:12 PM, truthaboutluv said:

And how would the women know she spoke to Nick about Danielle L. if she didn't admit it

Maybe one of the women overheard, but I didn't take it that the women knew about it.  I'm assuming someone on the staff who was filming the group date would have blabbed it.

[thesupremediva1]

On 3/2/2017 at 3:52 AM, Fake Britt said:

When Andi says, hello Nick it reminds me of either a line from a movie or actor or comic or probably both.  Help me place it, please.  It is driving me nuts!

My first thought was Ashley Judd in Double Jeopardy.

[call me ishmael]

52 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

My first thought was Ashley Judd in Double Jeopardy.

or perhaps when Bellatrix caught up with Harry in The Order of the Phoenix...

[Dejana]

The finale promo claims there will be a "Bachelor first" on After the Final Rose that Fleiss is already calling "historic!!!" on Twitter and another show source tells US Weekly, "It's going to be pretty awesome." Who knows with Fleiss, "historic" could mean an ATFR wedding, or Bachelor in Paradise is moving to a resort down the road.

Even if it is major news, with this twisted show, they could mean "pretty awesome" in a positive, "Nick chose Vanessa and they're having a baby!" sort of way, or "pretty awesome" as in, "What goes down will make Jason and Melissa look like a conscious uncoupling!" It's probably not going to be that interesting, but if Fleiss knew some major bombshell was going to be dropped on ATFR, maybe that's one of the reasons Rachel was announced so early as Bachelorette?

Edited March 9, 2017 by Dejana

[ribboninthesky1]

Interesting theory! On the other hand, I would think that announcing Rachel in addition to whatever "historic" news would have been a nice double whammy to create buzz after the season officially ended.  I can't think of the last time there was a memorable ATFR - maybe the Andi/Nick fiance things controversy?  Still, a Vanessa pregnancy would be pretty epic, I imagine. Or something like Corinne as having her own show (though I personally couldn't care less about her). 

[CindyBee]

I personally think it has to do with Corinne and a show for her and the family/Raquel.  But then it could be a big ole nothing as Fleiss is always saying big things and nothing really happens.

An uncoupling of Vanessa and Nick would be pretty epic though so that's what I'm hoping for.

[truthaboutluv]

Nick and Vanessa being over wouldn't be historic for this show because we've already had Jason who topped it by not just being over with his F1 by the ATFR but then switching to the F2. A mere breakup pales in comparison to that. Also, I don't think Fleiss, who is using the defense that he didn't allow Kaitlyn to do DWTS right after her season because of how things ended with Chris and Whitney and how it made the franchise look, would let Nick do it, knowing the ATFR will be a reveal that he and Vanessa are already splitsville. 

A big part of me still thinks this is the usual over-hyping bullshit to get people to watch. But I will say that to his credit, the last time, a few weeks ago, when he was touting his big historic announcement, it did end up being their announcing Rachel as the next lead, which was historic for the franchise. But so much has happened on this show throughout the years, it's hard to imagine what could be this huge. 

If this is not b.s., it's possible it's something not directly related to Nick and his F1 specifically, but maybe to do with the F2. Someone speculated maybe Raven's cheating ex will show up to confront and hash things out with her. I wouldn't put it past this show, especially if the guy was up for it, so who knows. The two speculations that I think if true would definitely fit the historic and wild descriptors is Vanessa's pregnant or they already got married. I can't see either being the case but crazier things have happened. If it's either of those two, that would most certainly be historic for the show. 

I guess there's the possibility of Vanessa dumping Nick at the live reunion show, thereby still technically making him a three time loser in the franchise? I don't think that's ever happened - the F1 dumping the lead at the ATFR. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[peachmangosteen]

13 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I guess there's the possibility of Vanessa dumping Nick at the live reunion show, thereby still technically making him a three time loser in the franchise?

LMAO I really hope it's this. I would laugh for days!

[Wings]

I think the historic moment will be announcing that BiP will air before bachette begins instead of after.  They announce the cast and start filming tomorrow.  Squeals and cheering from audience, of course! 

[Bugs Meany]

10 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I think the historic moment will be announcing that BiP will air before bachette begins instead of after.  They announce the cast and start filming tomorrow.  Squeals and cheering from audience, of course! 

Alas, they'd never do this. It would be Nick's girls + JoJo's guys rehashed. We need to know Rachel's guys first.

[Wings]

6 minutes ago, Bugs Meany said:

Alas, they'd never do this. It would be Nick's girls + JoJo's guys rehashed. We need to know Rachel's guys first.

Oh they will have two BiPs this year.  But you are right.  

Nick and Vanessa get engaged and at the ATFR they announce that they have decided not to be engaged but continue to date and see where it goes.  Ring goes back to Neil.  

[JenE4]

Eh, EVERY season they say it's the Most Dramatic/Controversial Finale/ATFR in Bachelor History. That statement is meaningless at this point. I can't remember specifics, but I do recall on this board us trying to figure out what the Dramatic thing was supposed to be after an episode. A couple of times we could not even pinpoint what it was supposed to have been.

[truthaboutluv]

56 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Eh, EVERY season they say it's the Most Dramatic/Controversial Finale/ATFR in Bachelor History. That statement is meaningless at this point. I can't remember specifics, but I do recall on this board us trying to figure out what the Dramatic thing was supposed to be after an episode. A couple of times we could not even pinpoint what it was supposed to have been.

That's where I'm at. Yes, the Rachel announcement was truly historic for the franchise but I still think this is typical hype for the finale. 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Eh, EVERY season they say it's the Most Dramatic/Controversial Finale/ATFR in Bachelor History. That statement is meaningless at this point. I can't remember specifics, but I do recall on this board us trying to figure out what the Dramatic thing was supposed to be after an episode. A couple of times we could not even pinpoint what it was supposed to have been.

The promo says on the ATFR a bachelor first.  No most dramatic or controversial or other BS they usually push.  Just "a Bachelor first." 

[ByTor]

7 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

The two speculations that I think if true would definitely fit the historic and wild descriptors is Vanessa's pregnant or they already got married.

I can think of a third...Vanessa is the F1 but on ATFR Nick marries Andi :)

[Wings]

I would like CH to announce that Nick and Vanessa are no longer together but Nick has found love...out walks Andi.   Now if this were the case it would be hyped to an extreme extent, the likes of what we have never seen.  Just putting in my ridiculous wish.  

[call me ishmael]

Maybe they are going to announce that Nick is going on this season's BIP...

[JenE4]

Word on the street, I.e. Internet gossip from "sources" say he's pulling a Mesnick. No, not sobbing over a balcony, the Other Mesnick thing--that he broke up with F1 and wants another chance with F2, but that's definitely not a Bachelor first.

[ribboninthesky1]

I love that "pulling a Mesnick" has dual meanings. But I now understand why the episode thread has suddenly shifted to "he may not even pick Vanessa" when a significant part of previous speculation was that TPTB had edited out the Vanessa/Nick love story to keep people guessing. 

[truthaboutluv]

36 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Word on the street, I.e. Internet gossip from "sources" say he's pulling a Mesnick. No, not sobbing over a balcony, the Other Mesnick thing--that he broke up with F1 and wants another chance with F2, but that's definitely not a Bachelor first.

Yeah saw that from In Touch, the same ones who claimed the runner up thought she might be pregnant. Of course they said thought so as to give themselves wiggle room when none of the women were clearly not pregnant come finale time. I read the article and it's like the writer recently saw Jason's season finale and just used exactly what happened then for the story. And I'm also not sure what would be historic about something happening that's happened pretty much exactly the same way, before.

 

Quote

But I now understand why the episode thread has suddenly shifted to "he may not even pick Vanessa" when a significant part of previous speculation was that TPTB had edited out the Vanessa/Nick love story to keep people guessing. 

If this is regarding my comments in the episode thread, like I stated there, I actually was just joking. I still completely believe that Nick chose Vanessa and whether they last or not, I don't buy for one second he's decided he made some big mistake and is pining for Raven. Maybe the show just hid their amazing chemistry that well but I don't now and never have seen anything between Nick and Raven. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[chocolatine]

Maybe the "first" is that he dumps Vanessa and asks to go on Rachel's season as a contestant.

[Bugs Meany]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah saw that from In Touch, the same ones who claimed the runner up thought she might be pregnant. Of course they said thought so as to give themselves wiggle room when none of the women were clearly not pregnant come finale time. I read the article and it's like the writer recently saw Jason's season finale and just used exactly what happened then for the story. And I'm also not sure what would be historic about something happening that's happened pretty much exactly the same way, before.

Life & Style did the "pregnancy" story but they're in the same category of garbage. What you describe is exactly what happened. Some employee (not calling them writers) opens up the laptop and thinks, "OMG it would be so cool if he pulled a Mesnick!" That's the editorial process. There are no "sources."

[truthaboutluv]

11 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Maybe the "first" is that he dumps Vanessa and asks to go on Rachel's season as a contestant.

Certainly would be a first, except he'd have to give up his DWTS spot, since Rachel's season starts filming a week after the finale, which is exactly when DWTS starts. 

[Wings]

The "first" will have nothing to do with Nick.  

It will be some announcement that involves bachette or BiP.  A change in the format of some kind?  Different scheduling (all shows will be 3 hours?), new location for BiP or longer run?  George the bartender will not be part of BiP, so that could be a clue they have moved the location.  

Something minor, for sure.  If it were huge we would be seeing promo's for it.  

[kingshearte]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Something minor, for sure.  If it were huge we would be seeing promo's for it.  

What, and ruin their own surprise? Surely they would never do something like that! ;)

[backformore]

A bachelor FIRST?  

OK two guesses:

1) Vanessa will also be a contestant on DWTS.

2) Corrine is getting her own reality show. I said early on, she seemed like her whole Bachelor appearance was an audition to be the next Paris Hilton.

[CindyBee]

RS tweeted out earlier today that Vanessa and Nick are doing their People magazine cover shoot today so I guess they are still "together". 

For how long, who knows.

So I like your guess, backformore, of Corinne getting her own show since she even over shadowed Nick/Vanessa this past season.

Edited March 10, 2017 by CindyBee

[truthaboutluv]

30 minutes ago, backformore said:

1) Vanessa will also be a contestant on DWTS.

That one has been speculated by a lot of people. There isn't much evidence for it except there were a few comments and rumors by some in the DWTS fandom that they heard talk of Mark Ballas possibly being back this season. But Mark was not announced during the GMA announcement of the cast. However Nick started following him on social media and while he started following a number of the Pros from DWTS, once he was confirmed to be on, Mark is the only one he's following who's not competing this season. If that ends up being what this is about, I think Fleiss and company may need to take cover because Kaitlyn might finally snap and hurt somebody. Because if she's already that pissed she was denied while they're making Nick do it. If the F1 gets to do the show as well, yeah it won't be pretty.

[Mabinogia]

14 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

If that ends up being what this is about, I think Fleiss and company may need to take cover because Kaitlyn might finally snap and hurt somebody. Because if she's already that pissed she was denied while they're making Nick do it. If the F1 gets to do the show as well, yeah it won't be pretty.

Oh, now I want it to happen just for that. Hahahaha It would be a first. I don't really consider Corinne getting a show a first since the annoying Vegas twins got their own show.

[1992austenlover]

54 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

That one has been speculated by a lot of people. There isn't much evidence for it except there were a few comments and rumors by some in the DWTS fandom that they heard talk of Mark Ballas possibly being back this season. But Mark was not announced during the GMA announcement of the cast. However Nick started following him on social media and while he started following a number of the Pros from DWTS, once he was confirmed to be on, Mark is the only one he's following who's not competing this season. If that ends up being what this is about, I think Fleiss and company may need to take cover because Kaitlyn might finally snap and hurt somebody. Because if she's already that pissed she was denied while they're making Nick do it. If the F1 gets to do the show as well, yeah it won't be pretty.

I follow Mark on social media and going by his Instagram stories, he seems to be in London at the moment--seemingly on vacation with his wife. Considering that Mark is my favourite pro, I would love it if he was secretly coming back this season but I just don't think that that's the case. 

[Wings]

Vanessa could still be on DWTS with another partner.  I don't think that would be considered a Bachelor first, maybe a DWTS first.  

Edited March 10, 2017 by wings707

[LadyHam]

I think it could be either Vanessa or Kaitlyn going on DWTS. It would be a Bachelor first to have both a bachelor and a bachelorette on the same season competing against each other. I guess we will find out for sure on Monday night. In the meantime, it's fun to speculate!

[chocolatine]

30 minutes ago, LadyHam said:

It would be a Bachelor first to have both a bachelor and a bachelorette on the same season competing against each other.

If that's true, I hope they go full-on train wreck and cast Andi. She and Nick still have chemistry and she's currently single. Vanessa will be seething with jealousy, and Kaitlyn's head will explode.

[comosedice]

I pray this Vanessa on DWTS isn't true because Nick being on already feels like a Bachelor season I have zero interest in is being dragged the hell out.  I do not want to see Nick and I hate that ABC has managed to put him on another show I watch.