The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Ohiopirate02]

Reading the reviews, I get the feeling someone involved in the process told the illustrator to make the children diverse.  So the illustrator made sure at least one of the kids she drew was of a darker complexion and another one was obviously disabled.  This is something I have seen in the artwork of various children's books these last few years and also pops up in the artwork most libraries use for summer reading.  If I am not mistaken, the art for picture books is done using a brief and not the actual finished text.  The illustrator probably had no idea how her illustrations would have been used.  The problem with this particular book arises when the publisher put copy to the artwork, and no one took a critical eye to how those various pictures were deployed.  Or the publisher employs more employees of the 8.5X11 variety that they never noticed what happened.  This is why sensitivity readers employed by the publisher are a must.  This could have easily been avoided if Worthy had used one.

[libgirl2]

13 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Reading the reviews, I get the feeling someone involved in the process told the illustrator to make the children diverse.  So the illustrator made sure at least one of the kids she drew was of a darker complexion and another one was obviously disabled.  This is something I have seen in the artwork of various children's books these last few years and also pops up in the artwork most libraries use for summer reading.  If I am not mistaken, the art for picture books is done using a brief and not the actual finished text.  The illustrator probably had no idea how her illustrations would have been used.  The problem with this particular book arises when the publisher put copy to the artwork, and no one took a critical eye to how those various pictures were deployed.  Or the publisher employs more employees of the 8.5X11 variety that they never noticed what happened.  This is why sensitivity readers employed by the publisher are a must.  This could have easily been avoided if Worthy had used one.

Shouldn't they have taken a look at it before it was released? 

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Shouldn't they have taken a look at it before it was released? 

They most likely did, but no one caught the problems.  This is what happens when you have a whole industry designed to center whiteness.  This book is from Worthy Kids a division of Hachette based in Nashville (Tennessee, I presume).  Hachette's workforce is 67% white according to their in-house statistics.  I can't find the breakdown for this particular imprint so I can't 100% say that the whole team who worked on this book are white, but it's not a stretch.  The editor(s) working on the finished product would have been more focused on making sure there was no conflict between where the text was on a particular page in relation to the artwork and that the correct text (correct meaning in order based on the previous pages and subsequent pages) was used.  They would not have taken the time to read the text in conjunction with the illustrations.  That's the job of a sensitivity reader.  

[Joan of Argh]

Wtf… So the little dark skinned girl is a thief and the little dark skinned boy on the cover is picking up trash.
All the white children on the cover are playing, looking at flowers, walking their dog, chasing butterflies, admiring nature, having fun etc.

Considering the source I don’t know why I’m surprised… but I am… talk about tone deaf. 

[Cinnabon]

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They most likely did, but no one caught the problems.  This is what happens when you have a whole industry designed to center whiteness.  This book is from Worthy Kids a division of Hachette based in Nashville (Tennessee, I presume).  Hachette's workforce is 67% white according to their in-house statistics.  I can't find the breakdown for this particular imprint so I can't 100% say that the whole team who worked on this book are white, but it's not a stretch.  The editor(s) working on the finished product would have been more focused on making sure there was no conflict between where the text was on a particular page in relation to the artwork and that the correct text (correct meaning in order based on the previous pages and subsequent pages) was used.  They would not have taken the time to read the text in conjunction with the illustrations.  That's the job of a sensitivity reader.  

And this is why more education about systemic racism is needed everywhere, imo.

6 minutes ago, Joan of Argh said:

Wtf… So the little dark skinned girl is a thief and the little dark skinned boy on the cover is picking up trash.
All the white children on the cover are playing, looking at flowers, walking their dog, chasing butterflies, admiring nature, having fun etc.

Considering the source I don’t know why I’m surprised… but I am… talk about tone deaf. 

Those hateful, self righteous bigots own this, editors or no editors. Remember what Jeremy’s idol Mccarthur said about racism.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Cinnabon

[BetyBee]

15 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Those hateful, self righteous bigots own this, editors or no editors. Remember what Jeremy’s idol Mccarthur said about racism.

Could you refresh my memory, @Cinnabon? What did McCarthur say?

[Zella]

The 1-star reviews are brutal and justifiably so. I agree with @Ohiopirate02 that they really could have benefited from a sensitivity reader and a more diverse publishing staff. Though, truthfully, I think anyone with some basic empathy and decency could have also singled out some of these issues since they're so blatant. 

My favorite one of the reviews also ponders why the sentence “I want love to live big in me" exists. LOL 

[Joan of Argh]

Ok now the book cover is really pissing me off, I need to stop looking at it. 😡

why does the little dark skinned girl have a gap in her teeth?  

I guess in the Vuolos world all dark skinned folks have gappy smiles.

[Cinnabon]

40 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

Could you refresh my memory, @Cinnabon? What did McCarthur say?

A lot. 
 

https://baptistnews.com/article/what-has-john-macarthur-actually-said-about-race-slavery-and-the-curse-of-ham/#.Yw_etSUpDYU

Scott Coley, who serves on the philosophy faculty at Mount St. Mary’s University, retweeted Autenrieth and went on to add: “John MacArthur has been at the forefront of the anti-justice movement within white evangelicalism. And here he is, using the Bible to craft a myth that legitimizes racial hierarchy. He and his colleagues deny that systemic racism is to blame for racial disparities in wealth, income and opportunity. So what explains such disparities? According to John MacArthur, it’s the curse of Canaan. … Not incidentally, 10 out of 10 white supremacist theologians used *precisely* this logic to justify race-based, chattel slavery in the 19th century, as did segregationists in the 20th century. … Whatever you do, stop listening to John MacArthur. He regularly manipulates Scripture to legitimize his own extra-biblical social agenda.”

And it gets worse.

In a 2012 YouTube video, MacArthur showed his true colors, stating: “It is a little strange that we have such an aversion to slavery because historically there have been abuses. There have been abuses in marriage. We don’t have an aversion to marriage particularly because there have been abuses. There are parents who abuse their children. We don’t have an aversion to having children because some parents have been abusive. … To throw out slavery as a concept simply because there have been abuses, I think, is to miss the point … . There can also be benefits. For many people, poor people, perhaps people who weren’t educated, perhaps people who had no other opportunity, working for a gentle, caring, loving master was the best of all possible worlds. … So we have to go back and take a more honest look at slavery and understand that God has, in a sense, legitimized it when it’s handled correctly. … Slavery is not objectionable if you have the right master. It’s the perfect scenario.”

Edited August 31, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Totally]

I just can’t with that MacArthur tosser😡

[CalicoKitty]

I just read the book reviews on Amazon.  43% are one star reviews.  A couple of the reviews commented on the poor grammar.  One 3 star review said some middle-of-the-road comments, and then said they received a free copy but were not required to leave a positive review.  Many compliments on the illustrations themselves, but complaints on the context in which they were used.  I have a hunch Amazon will be giving this a deep discount in the near future.

[BetyBee]

26 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

A lot. 
 

https://baptistnews.com/article/what-has-john-macarthur-actually-said-about-race-slavery-and-the-curse-of-ham/#.Yw_etSUpDYU

Scott Coley, who serves on the philosophy faculty at Mount St. Mary’s University, retweeted Autenrieth and went on to add: “John MacArthur has been at the forefront of the anti-justice movement within white evangelicalism. And here he is, using the Bible to craft a myth that legitimizes racial hierarchy. He and his colleagues deny that systemic racism is to blame for racial disparities in wealth, income and opportunity. So what explains such disparities? According to John MacArthur, it’s the curse of Canaan. … Not incidentally, 10 out of 10 white supremacist theologians used *precisely* this logic to justify race-based, chattel slavery in the 19th century, as did segregationists in the 20th century. … Whatever you do, stop listening to John MacArthur. He regularly manipulates Scripture to legitimize his own extra-biblical social agenda.”

And it gets worse.

In a 2012 YouTube video, MacArthur showed his true colors, stating: “It is a little strange that we have such an aversion to slavery because historically there have been abuses. There have been abuses in marriage. We don’t have an aversion to marriage particularly because there have been abuses. There are parents who abuse their children. We don’t have an aversion to having children because some parents have been abusive. … To throw out slavery as a concept simply because there have been abuses, I think, is to miss the point … . There can also be benefits. For many people, poor people, perhaps people who weren’t educated, perhaps people who had no other opportunity, working for a gentle, caring, loving master was the best of all possible worlds. … So we have to go back and take a more honest look at slavery and understand that God has, in a sense, legitimized it when it’s handled correctly. … Slavery is not objectionable if you have the right master. It’s the perfect scenario.”

Wow! MacArthur is a horrid, hateful person! Jeremy is a fool to follow him, but is likely cut from the same cloth. I hope their book bombs like everything else they do!

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, Joan of Argh said:

I guess in the Vuolos world all dark skinned folks have gappy smiles

Having some (small) knowledge of the picture book publishing industry, it's doubtful J&J had that much, if any, control over the illustrations. It's not like the author sits there and tells the illustrator exactly what to draw, down to the smile. That's on the illustrator. The Vuolos may have had some small input in the process, but it's also quite possible that they didn't have any creative control whatsoever over the pictures. Of course I have no doubt they'd see no issues with any of the illustrations regardless, but I would blame the illustrator and publisher just as much, if not more.

Edited August 31, 2022 by dargosmydaddy

[Cinnabon]

15 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

I just read the book reviews on Amazon.  43% are one star reviews.  A couple of the reviews commented on the poor grammar.  One 3 star review said some middle-of-the-road comments, and then said they received a free copy but were not required to leave a positive review.  Many compliments on the illustrations themselves, but complaints on the context in which they were used.  I have a hunch Amazon will be giving this a deep discount in the near future.

It’s already been discounted from the original price. I see it heading for the dollar store by next year.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

35 minutes ago, Totally said:

I just can’t with that MacArthur tosser😡

And one more:

But instead, MacArthur says: “Christianity does not free slaves. Christianity does not give equal social rights. … Jesus did not propound equal rights and he did not upset the social order. Neither did Peter, neither did Paul, neither did John, neither did any New Testament writer. Rather, they all affirmed that with great fear of God and great respect you are to be submissive to your masters, whether they’re good and gentle or whether they are unreasonable. You are to submit.”

THIS is Jeremy’s idol. He could have applied to any school and chose MacArthur’s. And OfJeremy is now complicit, imo. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Cinnabon

[BetyBee]

I admit that I usually skim over this thread, because I don't find Jinger & Jeremy to be very interesting. So I didn't realize until now how batsh*t crazy & evil MacArthur is. I'm sure he thinks that white, Christian men who believe as he does, are meant to rule the world. I never thought Jeremy was very bright and that he idolizes this foolish, evil man, reaffirms that belief. Jinger, of course, doesn't think for herself and blindly follows her "headship". Yuck!

[Ohiopirate02]

49 minutes ago, Joan of Argh said:

Ok now the book cover is really pissing me off, I need to stop looking at it. 😡

why does the little dark skinned girl have a gap in her teeth?  

I guess in the Vuolos world all dark skinned folks have gappy smiles.

The Vuolos used an illustrator.  They would have had little to no input on how the characters were drawn.  They are not influential enough to get much of a say in the artwork.  Their publisher would have assigned the illustrator and given her a brief on the necessary art. Something like we need X amount of distinct characters, and X amount of distinct backgrounds, the themes of the book are Y, plus make the characters diverse, and we need the images by this date. J and J may have gotten to choose from a couple of illustrators that Worthy Kids has worked with before. 

I personally think Jeremy is a tool, but he had little control here.  Shit, with the way publishing operates, he or Jinger could have raised the alarm that the book was racist and the book would still have been published as is. Same thing with the illustrator.   Publishers don't care 

[Zella]

The Vuolos would have had little control over the work on the illustrations, but they still had to approve the final proofs and would have had to have signed off on the final work. I don't think they get a pass anymore than the other idiots involved in this debacle. 

[sagittarius sue]

I was wondering if many authors and illustrators of children's books work together so that books are published the way they want them?  Sometimes the author and illustrator are one and the same.

[Absolom]

Some like to do their own artwork and some routinely pair with the same illustrator.  I've noticed that particularly with series books the grandchildren read.  

[Zella]

Authors who have a proven track record of sales have more control over final product than a relative unknown. When I worked for a publisher (admittedly a small one), the authors didn't interact with the freelance illustrators or copyeditors, though they still got to have a final word on what was done. But it was a house editor who did all the nitty gritty work of dealing with the illustrator.

If someone has an established partnership with an illustrator whom they worked with one on one (or is their own illustrator), I would think that work would largely be handled before it got to the publisher and then subsequent revisions would be made, but it would be quite a different dynamic than the publisher using an illustrator of their choosing.

I am not sure how to evaluate Jeremy and Jinger's standing in their little corner of publishing. I don't think they have any genuine clout, but in the small pond of Worthy, maybe they do.

Regardless, I don't believe for a minute that this was published over their objections. They're not acting like people who are appalled by the decisions the publisher made. I imagine that final proof made its rounds at Worthy and to the Vuolos, and nobody said a word about the problematic optics of it because it genuinely didn't register to them as offensive. Because they're hateful self-absorbed assholes. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

33 minutes ago, Zella said:

I imagine that final proof made its rounds at Worthy and to the Vuolos, and nobody said a word about the problematic optics of it because it genuinely didn't register to them as offensive. Because they're hateful self-absorbed assholes. 

And they follow a man who is openly pro-slavery.

[Zella]

23 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

And they follow a man who is openly pro-slavery.

Yes I feel like this is much like them constantly getting cancelled for bigoted attitudes and people claiming it's unfair. The Vuolos' silence in refusing to refute the accusations speaks volumes. In this case, yes, they waited until the last minute to market it, but that seems to be their standard MO. But whenever they posted about the book, they never acted like they found anything problematic in the work the publisher introduced. Between that and Jeremy's connection with Mac Daddy, I don't think they are innocent bystanders here. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

There are negative comments about the book on Jinger's IG. I wonder if between those comments and the bad reviews, they'll put out a statement.

I also wonder if the illustrator will comment. Here's more of her illustrations.

http://www.sullivanmoore.com/naomi-robinson

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

they'll put out a statement.

I loved the comment speculating that their defense will be that they didn't actually write the book anyway. 😂

[Dehumidifier]

14 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

Upon looking at the reviews I noticed a lot of them had the catchphrase "fruit of the spirit."  Did anyone else have the expression "blessed be the fruit" (The Handmaid's Tale) spring to mind?

In the traditional Catholic prayer "Hail Mary" Jesus is referred to as the "fruit of thy (Mary's) womb."

[lascuba]

There is no way Jeremy or Jinger would voice objection to the racism in their book, assuming they even noticed it.

17 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

If someone’s post got a dozen thumbs down, but no one commented to let them know why they disagreed, they might feel attacked and confused. That seems like middle school ganging up on someone to me. This is a place for discussion. At any rate, the site creators/administrators said that they didn’t want that kind of toxicity when the new emojis came out in June. 

I don't have an opinion on the merits of a dislike button, but I think anyone who feels ganged up by people disliking their posts will not take well to people telling them why they disagree. This is the internet--there's way too many people who take anything but an agreement as a personal attack.

[ginger90]

Another book, to be released February, 2023.

They need to have their bio updated, in it the breakout stars have one child.

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Our-Anchor-Days-Hope/dp/1546015884/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1662041658&refinements=p_lbr_one_browse-bin%3AJinger+Vuolo&s=books&sr=1-3

[Joan of Argh]

looks like Jinger has a new audio book coming out in 2023 as well… I’m trying to figure out what the title means… “Becoming Free Indeed: My Story of Disentangling Faith from Fear” 🤔

[Absolom]

That's the first Vuolo book that I might find a minute's worth of interest in.  But that's only if Jinger means moving away from JimBob's control or strict Gothard beliefs.  

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Joan of Argh said:

looks like Jinger has a new audio book coming out in 2023 as well… I’m trying to figure out what the title means… “Becoming Free Indeed: My Story of Disentangling Faith from Fear” 🤔

That price makes me think this is an Audible Original.  It will probably be a tweaked version of whatever was in her first book with a smidgen of new information to warrant purchase.  

[SnapHappy]

Interesting how none of the one-star reviews, bashing the Vuolos the hardest and most vehemently, are actual Amazon verified purchases. 

Sure, the books may have been gifts, or bought at Barnes & Noble.  Or people are just jumping on the latest bandwagon to compete for who can bash them the hardest.  

But they are still making money.  Doesn't matter about the "reviews", people will still buy it. 

And so they move on to the next project, undeterred by the haters.  

They are nothing, if not resilient and tenacious.  

[Ljohnson1987]

Hope Jinger's new book is an F-U to her upbringing. 

[Tasya]

I didn't read the book, I have no intention of reading the book. However, the outrage over the illustrations is ridiculous. People are reading too much into it. I am a black woman, the pictures that have been held up as "racist" are not even close. The black child "picking up trash" could just as easily be seen as "black child concerned about his community". Someone even mentioned the "black girl with a gap". What does that even mean? Even the black child being the thief, from the cover, it seems as if the story is about the black child, is that not the case? If so, it makes sense that she would be the thief because I assume it's about her learning a lesson. My son has read many books about black children doing something wrong and learning a lesson form it. He has read many books about white children doing something wrong and learning a lesson from it. He has also read many books about various animals doing something wrong and learning a lesson from it.

People, especially people who are not POC, should be really careful about making every small thing about racism. Because then, when there are actual, big and serious problems, it allows for others to dismiss them as just more faux outrage. 

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

Interesting how none of the one-star reviews, bashing the Vuolos the hardest and most vehemently, are actual Amazon verified purchases. 

Sure, the books may have been gifts, or bought at Barnes & Noble.  Or people are just jumping on the latest bandwagon to compete for who can bash them the hardest.  

But they are still making money.  Doesn't matter about the "reviews", people will still buy it. 

And so they move on to the next project, undeterred by the haters.  

They are nothing, if not resilient and tenacious.  

I would bet at least a $100 that 9/10 of the 1 star reviews are not from people that have actually purchased the book. 

[GeeGolly]

Is Jeremy's version of Christianity fear based?

[ChristmasCrafter]

Because they are writing award winning books they should get the Pulitzer Prize for the books.

[Joan of Argh]

46 minutes ago, Dehumidifier said:

They are talking about the missing front tooth, something we all had at a certain age. (I smiled with my lips closed in my second grade picture because of it.) Maybe they think black kids don't lose their baby teeth?  Looking again -- the white kid she is holding hands with appears to have no teeth at all! 🤷‍♀️

If you read the book the white kid she’s holding hands with has a gleaming white perfect smile in the book and the little black girl is the only one with a gap, the little black girl is also shown with an angry look on her face as she yanks a toy out of the sad little white girls hands making her cry, the little black girl is shown stealing balloons while the white child is shown as being obedient, kind hearted and honest just to name a couple pages in the book.

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, Tasya said:

I didn't read the book, I have no intention of reading the book. However, the outrage over the illustrations is ridiculous. People are reading too much into it. I am a black woman, the pictures that have been held up as "racist" are not even close. The black child "picking up trash" could just as easily be seen as "black child concerned about his community". Someone even mentioned the "black girl with a gap". What does that even mean? Even the black child being the thief, from the cover, it seems as if the story is about the black child, is that not the case? If so, it makes sense that she would be the thief because I assume it's about her learning a lesson. My son has read many books about black children doing something wrong and learning a lesson form it. He has read many books about white children doing something wrong and learning a lesson from it. He has also read many books about various animals doing something wrong and learning a lesson from it.

People, especially people who are not POC, should be really careful about making every small thing about racism. Because then, when there are actual, big and serious problems, it allows for others to dismiss them as just more faux outrage. 

I would bet at least a $100 that 9/10 of the 1 star reviews are not from people that have actually purchased the book. 

I'm a POC and white evangelical Christians writing a book about a black child being a thief and learning a lesson is, at best, tone deaf.

Yeah, non-POCs should be careful about overstepping and screaming racism just because someone they don't like is being a dick, but it's also important that they call out white racist behavior. In this case, they're calling the thing that looks like a duck and acts liked a duck a duck.

2 minutes ago, Joan of Argh said:

If you read the book the white kid she’s holding hands with has a gleaming white perfect smile in the book and the little black girl is the only one with a gap, the little black girl is also shown with an angry look on her face as she yanks a toy out of the sad little white girls hands making her cry, the little black girl is shown stealing balloons while the white child is shown as being obedient, kind hearted and honest just to name a couple pages in the book.

Thank you. We know too much about these people's beliefs to give them the benefit of the doubt on these things.

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Is Jeremy's version of Christianity fear based?

Aren't most versions?

[Stevie Nicks]

22 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

Ok now the book cover is really pissing me off, I need to stop looking at it. 😡

why does the little dark skinned girl have a gap in her teeth?  

I guess in the Vuolos world all dark skinned folks have gappy smiles.

Actually my first thought was that she has lost a tooth. But then I remember who we're talking about. 

[madpsych78]

On 8/31/2022 at 4:25 PM, Joan of Argh said:

Wtf… So the little dark skinned girl is a thief and the little dark skinned boy on the cover is picking up trash.
All the white children on the cover are playing, looking at flowers, walking their dog, chasing butterflies, admiring nature, having fun etc.

Considering the source I don’t know why I’m surprised… but I am… talk about tone deaf. 

Okay, I have no doubt that there is some racism going on here, but I perceived that the two kids on the far right of the cover were children of color, and they appear to be engaging in innocuous activities.

[Joan of Argh]

8 minutes ago, Stevie Nicks said:

Actually my first thought was that she has lost a tooth. But then I remember who we're talking about. 

Exactly if the gap in her teeth was the only thing that’s different when compared to all the white children… fine… but it isn’t 

each page has a title like “Goodness” or “Kindness” etc and those are all pages with sweet, smiling white children behaving properly other pages have negative titles like “Self Control” etc and those pages feature the little black girl stealing balloons or being angry and snatching a toy from a sad little white girl etc etc 🙄

[Absolom]

California public schools have universal TK so Felicity could go to the local public school free this year.  The poor kids miss out on so much.

[Churchhoney]

On 8/31/2022 at 6:50 PM, BetyBee said:

Wow! MacArthur is a horrid, hateful person! Jeremy is a fool to follow him, but is likely cut from the same cloth. I hope their book bombs like everything else they do!

Jer is totally cut from the same cloth. The only alternative is that, while he doesn't believe the same stuff, he always speaks and conducts himself as if he does. But I'd bet it's the first.

It's a known fact that MacArthur shoves people out of his institution if they disagree with even the least consequential of his pronouncements, let alone these big ones. .... And he'd  never in a million years make a pampered pet of anybody who wasn't on precisely the same page he is. JM firmly believes that as a pastor he literally speaks for God. So if you disagree with his pronouncements -- well, you know who you're probably speaking for,

That complete rejection of competing views was one of the big complaints that former students and former faculty made against him to the accreditation group back when they got put on probation there. A lot of guys who continue to consider themselves conservative Calvinists nevertheless felt JM's rigidity was out of place in academia.....

Edited September 2, 2022 by Churchhoney

[ginger90]

9 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I don't remember, does Mac Daddy's school start at kindergarten

Yes, it’s K-8.

[Scarlett45]

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[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Yes, it’s K-8.

Okay, I thought it also included high school as well. I guess they have to start smaller to see if it will actually work.

[Panopticon]

9 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That price makes me think this is an Audible Original.  It will probably be a tweaked version of whatever was in her first book with a smidgen of new information to warrant purchase.  

Yes, emphasis on the stuff about Jim Bob obnoxiously posturing that he wouldn’t let Jeremy marry Jinger due to their religious differences and Jinger being afraid to go forward with the courtship because she didn’t want to rock the boat. “Faith and fear”… but highly unlikely to go as far as critiquing the family that made her afraid to choose her own husband if he debated scripture with her daddy. 

[satrunrose]

If there was a bit in there about how Jinger realized it's not good to tell three-year-olds that they're terrible sinners bound for hell, I might (big emphasis on might) just read it.

[Lukeysboat]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:00 PM, Cinnabon said:

Prince was 80s, but yeah

The 80s were a long time ago too. Let’s Pretend We’re Married was 40 years ago already. 

Now I’m feeling kinda old. 

[Absolom]

Jinger looks good and looks happy:

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/6137958/jinger-duggar-natural-hair-strict-rules/