S12.E05: Week 4

[Nowhere]

@Andromeda I agree with you about JoJo. I didn't think she was interesting enough to be the next bachelorette but my boyfriend called it pretty early on. Maybe she's got something we women just don't see. 

Boyfriend also says that Jordan will be the one she chooses and he's predicted the last two seasons correctly lol

[Andromeda]

19 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

That may be why I find it very unattractive for men to whisper and gossip in the corner like high school mean girls, or pick at other people like children

Could not agree with you more about that! This season is particularly bad for that, mostly because Alex seems determined to find a scapegoat.  I was totally on Derek's side when he called out those four for their "mean girl" behavior. It was so odd to me. So what if JoJo announced Derek was getting the rose for reassurance. I'm sure they could all use some, when a dozen guys are competing for single woman's attention. But Alex had to make a thing of it. I guess being in the Army made life easier for him -- he had a specific enemy to fight.

And they all where whinging about Derek eating up their cocktail party time with JoJo, when she wasn't even there yet! And when Chris did appear, he announced there would be no cocktail party, so Derek cost them nothing.

7 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

@ANDROMEDA I agree with you about JoJo. I didn't think she was interesting enough to be the next bachelorette but my boyfriend called it pretty early on. Maybe she's got something we women just don't see. 

Boyfriend also says that Jordan will be the one she chooses and he's predicted the last two seasons correctly lol

Heh, he's got this show down pat. I haven't been reading spoilers, but I think it'll be Jordan, too. Kimmel predicted Jordan, too, after the first episode. It used to be a lot more subtle, or maybe the last few Bachelor/ettes are just bad at hiding their feelings.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Andromeda

[Nowhere]

4 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Could not agree with you more about that! This season is particularly bad for that, mostly because Alex seems determined to find a scapegoat.  I was totally on Derek's side when he called out those four for their "mean girl" behavior. It was so odd to me. So what if JoJo announced Derek was getting the rose for reassurance. I'm sure they could all use some, when a dozen guys are competing for single woman's attention. But Alex had to make a thing of it. I guess being in the Army made life easier for him -- he had a specific enemy to fight.

Heh, he's got this show down pat. I haven't been reading spoilers, but I think it'll be Jordan, too. Kimmel predicted Jordan, too, after the first episode. It used to be a lot more subtle, or maybe the last few Bachelor/ettes are just bad at hiding their feelings.

I already posted this a while ago but nobody said anything so I'll just ask you. When you watch the preview for the finale, when she's crying and saying "you shouldn't have done that to me but I love you blah blah blah", did the hand she was holding look like maybe Derek? He was very tall and also quite tan and i thought I saw dark hair on the hand or arm. I think Derek would be the only really dark haired one left.  What say you?

[Andromeda]

25 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

I already posted this a while ago but nobody said anything so I'll just ask you. When you watch the preview for the finale, when she's crying and saying "you shouldn't have done that to me but I love you blah blah blah", did the hand she was holding look like maybe Derek? He was very tall and also quite tan and i thought I saw dark hair on the hand or arm. I think Derek would be the only really dark haired one left.  What say you?

I hope so, I kind of like Derek (until he does or says something annoying anyway!). I didn't look that closely -- clearly I have to rewatch! I was thinking her meltdown is over Jordan because she's in love with him but finds out he's a skunk, but still loves him, but that is probably me reading too much into it.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Andromeda

[Wings]

48 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Besides his clear Napoleon complex, Alex has another challenge:  an identical twin brother (according to the episode 1 profile) who is married.  He's probably been #2 all his life.

 

And I forgot to quote the poster above who mentioned that one of Jordan's complaints about Chad was working out alone.. I wonder if Jordan thought they'd be the two cool guys/athletes and felt rejected by Chad.

He worked out alone because he didn't like anyone and could not bond.  Some of the men talked about that but Jordan didn't care, thus his comment. 

I wonder if his twin is taller. Identical twins can be. Killer! 

[Nowhere]

7 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

I hope so, I kind of like Derek (until he does or says something annoying anyway!). I didn't look that closely -- clearly I have to rewatch! I was thinking her meltdown is over Jordan because she's in love with him but finds out he's a skunk, but still loves him, but that is probably me reading too much into it.

I rewatched that 3 seconds about million times trying to study that hand. Sad to say.

[Koala]

Alex is truly a spiteful little character and he seems to be getting progressively worse. I hope he'll get sent home next week. Props to Derek for pulling the clique aside and being straight-forward and honest with them; I rolled my eyes when Jordan got all defensive with the whole "it's petty and a non-issue" response. Clearly it was an issue for Derek, or else he wouldn't have brought it up. Instead of hearing him out, the clique got all whiny and aggressive with "ur wastin' our precious timeee..." even though JoJo was nowhere in sight. Truly obnoxious and a lame excuse for not hearing someone out like a rational adult. And I appreciated Wells standing up for Derek, even when it was quite clearly against the popular vote. This group is honestly so disappointing for the most part. There are some dreadful personalities (or lack thereof) but I suppose JoJo doesn't care about personality, seeing as how she's so smitten with Jordan.

[huahaha]

41 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

@Andromeda I agree with you about JoJo. I didn't think she was interesting enough to be the next bachelorette but my boyfriend called it pretty early on. Maybe she's got something we women just don't see. 

Boyfriend also says that Jordan will be the one she chooses and he's predicted the last two seasons correctly lol

I knew it was going to be JoJo right away too, and I'm a straight woman. She's by far the hottest bachelorette since Trista.

The problem with the more sympathetic bachelorettes is that they don't tend to be as pretty/hot. And to get a bunch of guys to fall in love in a month, you need a pretty face.

I was barely able to watch Ashley's season because it seemed like the guys didn't want to be there. (Other seasons had that problem too, but hers was the worst -- the guys actively said they were hoping for Emily or Chantal.) This season may not be fantastic, but all of those guys seem to want JoJo (except possibly Wells). Somehow that lets me relax and enjoy more.

Edited June 22, 2016 by huahaha

[SallyAlbright]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I'll be glad when Li'l Pit Bull (Alex) takes a hike.  

My pit bull is MUCH cooler than Alex ;) He's more of a Wells. 

[Wings]

20 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

I already posted this a while ago but nobody said anything so I'll just ask you. When you watch the preview for the finale, when she's crying and saying "you shouldn't have done that to me but I love you blah blah blah", did the hand she was holding look like maybe Derek? He was very tall and also quite tan and i thought I saw dark hair on the hand or arm. I think Derek would be the only really dark haired one left.  What say you?

That preview was full of Frankenbites so ignore the dialog.  That guy is F2 and I see nothing that puts Derek there.  Robbie has dark hair, Luke too, Jordan not so much. Look at hands next week; they are all tan and lighting has a lot to do with skin tones so don't put too much stock in that.

[thejuicer]

I wish Jojo would stop wearing evening gowns with cutouts in them.

[Wings]

5 minutes ago, thejuicer said:

I wish Jojo would stop wearing evening gowns with cutouts in them.

It is in high style now but I am tired of them, too.  

[Kerri Okie]

3 hours ago, piewarmer said:

I do wonder how he keeps it constrained to that tidy little forelump.

I had to go back and make sure we were still talking about the hair. ;)

[backformore]

4 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Well, that was a LOT less fun without Chad. I know it's part of the show concept, but I had to roll my eyes as Jo made sure that Jordan was not "the cheating kind" as she mentally prepped for the next day's date with 12 or more guys and the inevitable lip locks required

Well, it was a little ridiculous, when you think about it:  
Your ex-girlfriend told me you're the kind of guy who cheats, are you?
Um, not any more.
Ok then. 

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Am I the only one who thinks that regardless of whether Chad#1 was a tool for giving an interview to the rag, that what he said is likely true? Jo-Jo dumped him to go on the Bachelor, hooked back up with him after she got dumped by Ben, then dumped him again to be the Bachelorette. What's not to believe?

Of course she did!  She even kind of admitted it.  She said something about "being there"  for him, offering her friendship or something.  So yeah, I bet she and Chad#1 probably watched the Bachelor together, and if Caila (is that the name?)  was chosen as the Bachelorette, Jojo and Chad#1 would have gone back to being a couple. 

[chocolatine]

6 hours ago, Adeejay said:

And Graham was into DeAnna and Frank was into Ali. There seems to be a pattern.

To me it's more like the Emily/Jef dynamic. Brooks/Graham/Frank couldn't wait to bail on their respective Bachelorettes, but Jef liked Emily well enough to fake-propose to her and date her for a few months of publicity. I think Jordan likes JoJo enough to date her for a while as long as it's "fun" and he gets media exposure.

[Lamb18]

I'm watching these episodes a week later, after reading all your comments, so I kept a close eye on Chad (not hard to do):

First, I don't think he's a producer plant, that is, someone specifically cast to play a certain reality character role and who is in agreement on the role he is supposed to play. I do think that in the application/interview process, the casting crew realized Chad would probably act this way if provoked and could at least provide entertaining "full of himself" quotes, so cast him in order to provide this type of drama. I agree with others here that Chad was picked on and prodded for no reason. It seemed like he couldn't figure out why everybody except Daniel disliked him so much. He also was in an alcohol-induced stupor a lot of the time so was oblivious to the sensitive feelings of the other guys. What was uncalled for was making threats of beating people up and finding them after the show. He probably didn't have the option of just getting up and leaving the room; they probably all had to stay there and sit on the couch together.

I think that the show's crack psychologists analyzed the applications and interviews and helped determine which group of guys would provide the type of drama the show wanted this season. They chose a bunch of guys who were insecure and felt threatened by Chad's self-confidence, plus chose a guy who was full of himself and had the potential to be an ugly drunk.

I'll watch the episode when I get home from work. I'm looking forward to the protein powder cleansing ritual!

[jade.black]

That shot of Jojo and Jordan making out while the rest of the guys were sitting on the other side of the wall is the screenshot to sum up the season.

I don't like Jordan. He doesn't seem that into it, doesn't really seem as nice as he tries to put off, and it's painful watching Jojo falling all over him. "Best date of her life" wasn't anything more than the other dates she's been on except that it was with Jordan. Also it annoys me how he looks away and laughs anytime someone confronts him (Chad, Derek, etc.) 

Also I hate Jordan's hair. Hate it. I want to cut it all off, and not in a creepy Daniel sex-based way.

I like them addressing tabloid rumors. It brings more reality into the show (even if the magazines just "showing up" did not). Jojo isn't a pretty crier, but she looked better with her hair swept to the side. Maybe she and Jordan do belong together. I just want to fix both their hairstyles.

She and Robby seemed like an actual couple during their date. Or at least actual friends. That place they had dinner was so cute. And she side-parted her hair! I can now tell Robby apart from Chase, but I've realized that as soon as Chase is off the screen I cannot remember what his face looks like. It just melts into a haze of blandness.

Poor Derek! He didn't even do anything to turn those guys against him. Alex was a dick. He seemed more annoyed that Derek confronted them while having a rose, as if nothing else should be allowed to bother him if he already had Jojo's weekly approval, as if guys are only allowed to be upset if they don't have validation from her. In reality, what Derek was upset about had nothing to do with Jojo, and he had every right to tactfully bring them away from the group to discuss it. I thought I couldn't love Wells any more than I did and then he stood up for Derek instead of joining the gang-mentality.

Did anyone catch what she said to Vinny? I wasn't aware that they had ever interacted, but she seemed to be personal with him during their goodbye.

Evan is the worst. When he asked Chad for money for a new shirt, I was actually hoping Chad might punch him in the face.

Jojo is boring. I'm just hoping for an awesome implosion of this season concerning Jordan and that the end might actually turn out to not be predictable.

[alannaofdoom]

13 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

 Will we see Alex interact with his twin? I wonder if he is as annoying? I assume not, since the introductory episode showed him to be married or in a relationship. Maybe the twin stole her from Alex? Maybe she's not sure which twin she is with? I think they even have matching tats, which is weird. I'm a little obsessed with them.

This just made me laugh SO HARD and I can't pinpoint exactly why. Anyway, thanks for brightening my morning! 

[Dirtybubble]

Quote

Worse, he's an 'ex-competitive swimmer'. I think the swimming got in the way of the hair do. That 'do would take a lot of fixing.

Quote

I do wonder how he keeps it constrained to that tidy little forelump.

Ha!  His hair really is something to behold isn't it?  LoL--between his cemented hair do and facial hair I don't hear a word he says.  Meh, don't like him but don't really hate him either I'm just kinda blah towards him.

 

As far as Derrick goes I honestly had forgotten he was even on the show.  During the first rose ceremony of the night when he got a rose I was wondering who the hell he was.  It wasn't until he mention he got the first one on one that I remembered him (kinda).  Another meh guy to me, don't hate but don't like either.

[Dirtybubble]

1 hour ago, jade.black said:

I like them addressing tabloid rumors. It brings more reality into the show (even if the magazines just "showing up" did not).

I like them addressing the rumors as well I just thought the way they did it was a bit cheesy.  A group of guys, one of them getting his hair cut, I mean really?  Clucking hens in a salon is what we got.  Sheesh. 

[deSchenke]

I forgot to mention Luke in my post yesterday.  Does he ever show any emotions or facial expressions?  I think when JoJo said his name at the rose ceremony I detected the corner of his mouth going up ever so slightly.  Then poof, it was gone and his face was back to deadpan.

None, but two, of these guys show any personality.  Wells has some wit and I like him.  What personality Alex has shown is just ugly.  The rest are all just bland, bland, and more bland.

[Riplet68]

Jordan has been prepped very well for each episode. He totally knows how to play the game, and had no problem doing the required nonsense to further his goals (the cheesy dance moves, the sports center thing, bonding with the other guys-though you can tell he thinks it's all pretty stupid).  Whether his end goal is JJ or TV, we'll see 

I also watched that hand shot a gajillion times.  It appears to be a taller, bigger built man with a darker complexion-so that rules out Luke and Jordan. I say it's Robbie (though secretly hope it's Jordan) 

[sidekickgirl]

Wells is my favourite of this season - the closest to what I would call "my type". So I hope he gets to escape this shit show soon. 

Alex, at the beginning of the season I thought he had a really handsome face (think Prince Charming from Cinderella), but his insides are rotten. The rest of them are interchangeable and all have the same haircut as my 10 year old son.  So there's that. 

I'm happy that I'm a wrong reasons viewer, because this season has lots of wrong reasons, and no real love story to root for.  JoJo is a pretty girl, but there's not much going on outside of that - at least it's not being shown on the TV. 

[Kbilly]

Quote

I can't believe no one has mentioned Jordan and Robby's spa date

I found it totally obnoxious--Jordan was so camera aware--or "prepped" as Riplet68. Look how goofy-charming I can be by eating this cucumber!! Blech

[comosedice]

21 minutes ago, Kbilly said:

I found it totally obnoxious--Jordan was so camera aware--or "prepped" as Riplet68. Look how goofy-charming I can be by eating this cucumber!! Blech

This is how I find Jordan throughout this whole thing. He just seems to be acting except for when JoJo asked him about the cheating claim. He was caught off guard there. I watch him and JoJo and just feel sorry for her because she is so attracted to him that she is ignoring red flags and he is going to end up hurting her. I just don't get his appeal and I have no problems with tight jeans. Some men wear them well.

[comosedice]

3 hours ago, deSchenke said:

I forgot to mention Luke in my post yesterday.  Does he ever show any emotions or facial expressions?  I think when JoJo said his name at the rose ceremony I detected the corner of his mouth going up ever so slightly.  Then poof, it was gone and his face was back to deadpan.

None, but two, of these guys show any personality.  Wells has some wit and I like him.  What personality Alex has shown is just ugly.  The rest are all just bland, bland, and more bland.

Luke shows emotions, just not as much as some of the others. Could be the West Point officer training or maybe he internalizes things more than he emotes. He's my fave right now. I like his intensity and I like that he gives JoJo his full attention when he's with her.

[WhoAmIReally]

17 hours ago, wings707 said:

He worked out alone because he didn't like anyone and could not bond.  Some of the men talked about that but Jordan didn't care, thus his comment.

I could swear Jordan(?) was saying what was weird was that he worked out alone in the hot tub.  Or pool.  He didn't get to finish his comment, so I don't know what the significance of that was.

JoJo has not done or said a single memorable thing.  She's a total dud as a bachelorette.

Edited June 22, 2016 by WhoAmIReally

[lightbeam]

I gave Alex the benefit of the doubt, but he was a total jerk this episode. He needs to grow up. 

[kingshearte]

8 minutes ago, lightbeam said:

I gave Alex the benefit of the doubt, but he was a total jerk this episode. He needs to grow up. 

Seriously. Chad was gone, what, five minutes before Alex had found some spurious reason to be pissed off with someone else? Ugh. Chad had some issues for sure, but Alex's issues make him just as undateable as far as I'm concerned.

[backformore]

12 hours ago, jade.black said:

That shot of Jojo and Jordan making out while the rest of the guys were sitting on the other side of the wall is the screenshot to sum up the season

Yes -  he grabbed her and pinned her against the wall and started macking on her, giving the impression that they had a REAL relationship, he was sneaking in some make-out time a few feet away from the other guys, who knew nothing of what's going on the other side of the wall.  What's weird to me is that Jojo clearly is into Jordan much more so than anyone else.   Yet she continues to make out with all the other guys, any time they make moves.   Maybe it's easier for her than talking? 

I've been out of the dating world for a long time.  Is this the way women find out if they like a guy?  Because (old person voice)  when I was that age, you were supposed to get to know a guy first, the make out sessions were AFTER you decided you like him. 

[Lamb18]

16 hours ago, comosedice said:

Luke shows emotions, just not as much as some of the others. Could be the West Point officer training or maybe he internalizes things more than he emotes. He's my fave right now. I like his intensity and I like that he gives JoJo his full attention when he's with her.

He reminds me of a sheriff from a small town in  the old wild west; the tall, silent and strong type of guy. The kind of sheriff shown in the old movies (whether or not they actually existed like that, I don't know). He'll holster up, pin on his shiny sheriff badge and hop on his horse for another day of chasing bad guys and keeping his town safe.

[deSchenke]

12 hours ago, backformore said:

Maybe it's easier for her than talking? 

I think that sums up JoJo right there!

[backformore]

Quote

He reminds me of a sheriff from a small town in  the old wild west; the tall, silent and strong type of guy. The kind of sheriff shown in the old movies (whether or not they actually existed like that, I don't know). He'll holster up, pin on his shiny sheriff badge and hop on his horse for another day of chasing bad guys and keeping his town safe.

You mean like THIS GUY?

Yeah, I see it!  (that's a young Clint Eastwood for those of you who didn't recognize him from the craggy old guy he has become.  he used to play exactly that role - strong silent type )

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by backformore

[sistersledge]

Luke definitely has got 'blue steel' down. I can't not see it everytime he's on camera..,

[violetr]

I happen to think Jordan is ridiculously pretty....and a complete phony. He is so not interested in JoJo. But he has the upper hand and will use it all the way until the end. Oh Jo, I feel you girl. I used to go for the ones who weren't into me, too. Then I got older and finally developed some self-esteem. These folks are all just so young. 

Quote

I wish Jojo would stop wearing evening gowns with cutouts in them.

I'm actually digging her sense of style, especially her jewelry. That huge geode ring and the multi-tiered necklace she was wearing during her dinner with Jordan were gorgeous. WANT.

Quote

My pit bull is MUCH cooler than Alex ;) He's more of a Wells. 

Mine is kind of like Alex - short, and so insecure that she tends to pick fights with other dogs. She was a rescue so we don't know what trauma is in her past. We don’t let her around other dogs anymore. Maybe that would work for Alex, too? :) 

[comosedice]

20 hours ago, backformore said:

I've been out of the dating world for a long time.  Is this the way women find out if they like a guy?  Because (old person voice)  when I was that age, you were supposed to get to know a guy first, the make out sessions were AFTER you decided you like him. 

Well, she hasn't made out with all of the men so maybe she is kissing only the ones she likes. We've seen her deny Chad a kiss. Jordan might be her favorite but she could still be testing her sexual chemistry with some of the others. I am just not picking up on the strong chemistry between her and Jordan. He just comes across as fake and performing for the cameras.

[lightbeam]

This is mean to say, but I think Jordan's eyes are too close together.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

6 hours ago, sistersledge said:

Luke definitely has got 'blue steel' down. I can't not see it everytime he's on camera..,

I can't not see his nipples either every time he's on camera >.<

[Soobs]

Ooh I don't like Jordan either. The way he said I love you was so flat and a little soon. He just wants to win the game and definitely has the upper hand. Maybe her brothers will help her see through him. When she said the best love she had was Ben, I felt sorry for her. I seriously don't think that was love. I think that was a producer's suggestion to keep the show somewhat interesting. Hopefully, she was b.s.ing too.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Soobs

[chocolatine]

26 minutes ago, Soobs said:

Ooh I don't like Jordan either. The way he said I love you was so flat and a little soon. He just wants to win the game and definitely has the upper hand. Maybe her brothers will help her see through him. When she said the best love she had was Ben, I felt sorry for her. I seriously don't think that was love. I think that was a producer's suggestion to keep the show somewhat interesting. Hopefully, she was b.s.ing too.

I thought it was Robby that said ILY - did Jordan say it too?

[leighdear]

I don't wish anything bad on either one, I think they will attract enough self-made disasters on their own.  It's already happening. 

I think Jordan and JoJo are both a bit dim.  Both are privileged and pretty. Jordan was moderately talented on the football field and JoJo let her parents & brothers organize her life.  But they equate social media popularity with actual worth.  They think the temporary fanfare is real and will last.  They are just cute sheep, not really bright enough to see the cliffs in front of them.  Sadly, many of their peers are just like them.  

Real life will happen to them, no matter how hard they try to stay in magic Bachelorland.  

Edited June 24, 2016 by leighdear

[Ripley68]

Just watched it again (yes, I'm sad).  The boys all looked so much hotter at the sand dunes than when they are all dressed up, Alex especially!  I was surprised cause I don't really like him.

I forgot to check out hands till Robbys date, but his hands don't have any hair on them, and Chase has really long fingers - so not sure either one of those are the guy in the preview. She is soooooo into Jordan, its kind of scary.  I just don't see her being that way with anyone else.

[Lamb18]

Backformore, totally!!

[Padma]

Could someone do me a favor? I find JoJo boring and the guy's are too overly jock-ish for me, so I've been doing something else and looking up, following it kind of...seeing what she's wearing, getting the gist of the dramas, but really can't tell a lot of the guys apart (except for Jordan, Chad, Alex, maybe Luke, and the unfortunately named James Taylor. The others are a big blur).

So imagine my surprise when some not-so-jockish cute dark haired guy seemed to be suppressing a smile while JoJo cried and emoted about the terrible secret from her ex!  Who was that guy, I wondered?  He seems maybe a little snarky, maybe not into JoJo that much, maybe even kind of smart.

Well, I found out it's Wells, and now I remember reading the name here before and I think the posts were kind of positive. So, any thoughts about Wells? I'd love to have someone to be interested in even though he's obviously not JoJo's type (jock) and not destined to make it to the end.  What's his deal?   Thanks!

[backformore]

Padma,  I often have THIS PAGE open on my computer while I watch -  it helps a lot, especially this season, when I can't tell one guy from another.

[Padma]

Thanks backformore. That really helped. Unfortunately, after reading their answers I think I'm back to being apathetic toward them. Maybe Derek. Jordan's answers weren't bad, but it reminded me how he acted about the cheating thing this week. He was doing fine until he broke eye contact about it. I think JoJo is so caught up with his image, but was lucky to have been warned off. Seems a few others who might be suitable, but she really doesn't seem interested. If she could, I think she'd drop to F2 already.  (I also can't tell which ones are really feeling it for her, but I don't see it from Jordan, especially after he said he's only said "I'm in love with you" once before. He really doesn't seem like a man "in love" as much as "in the game".  But if she chooses him, after all the clues she's had about him, she really has only herself to blame.

Spoiler

 

[Wings]

On 6/23/2016 at 4:14 PM, lightbeam said:

This is mean to say, but I think Jordan's eyes are too close together.

Good for snorkeling though.