S03.E16: UK EU Membership Referendum

[Athena]

Quote

Main segment: United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Segments: 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting, National Rifle Association, Dickey Amendment (1996)

 

[trow125]

A heads up: according to my DVR, the episode will begin at 11:15 PM (due to a super-sized "Game of Thrones" season finale).

[Irlandesa]

That's interesting.  My DVR says that it'll start at 10:03.  And that makes it wrong.  I'll have to check my VEEP and LWT recordings. 

[trow125]

Ack - my mistake - I was looking at NEXT week's "Last Week Tonight," i.e. June 26, which does indeed start at 11:15... tonight's does start at 11:03 (ET/PT). Sorry about that! And make sure your DVRs are set accordingly for the show on the 26th!

[snowwhyte]

Am glad he covered Brexit. I'm a Brit who favours remaining with a family who all want to leave. It really is an issue that is dividing families and the whole country. There is going to be a lot of bitterness no matter what the result is.

[M. Darcy]

I feel like a total idiot.  I follow a lot of Brits on twitter so I've seen the word Brexit a lot.  But I never quite understood what the word actually meant and never took the two seconds to look it up.  But last night when I saw it on the screen I finally got it Br(itain) Exit.  D'oh. 

And, JK Rowling tweeted about last night's episode! 

Quote

I know I've said it before, but I love John Oliver. Watch the funniest, sharpest thing you'll see on Brexit.

[attica]

I wonder if there's special dispensation involved with casting children who are expected to deliver profanity in their lines. Or is this just not a thing?

In other news, it's never not funny to sing (or hear sung) the word Fuck. Like middle-aged/old white people using hip hop slang, it's reliable comedy.

[peeayebee]

I've wondered that, too, about children, even if they're in a scene where someone else cusses. That was a great song. I kind of wish we didn't see the lyrics as they sang because I like the surprise of hearing punchlines.

The Brexit story was great, too. The more I hear about it, the more I'm scared that the vote will be to leave the EU, and then the world economy will collapse. 

[iMonrey]

For me, the main story was about the NRA and the Dickey amendment. It goes to show how insidious the NRA is and the stranglehold they have on the US Congress. Imagine, we have a law that says the CDC and the AMA aren't even allowed to study the effects of gun violence. Wow.

I thought the Brexit piece was OK but should have covered more how it would affect the global economy vs. just England itself.

[Irlandesa]

Both of the pieces last night felt like "Call to arms" type pieces.   If the NRA piece was geared towards the US,  the Brexit piece was for the UK.  As such,  I think the amount he talked about the global economy was enough.  The effect of the global economy isn't going to persuade supporters of the exit who are voting with a more nationalist POV.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Traveller519]

One of my British friends shared a long post on Facebook last week that basically said "If you can't find yourself willing to get bogged down in all the details of the effects of the vote, here's a list of people who support remaining within the EU, and a list of people who favour leaving. Figure out which list you more closely identify with." The list for remaining was much larger and included multiple world leaders, most of the cabinet, and many influential people. The list that favoured leaving was Boris Johnson and a bunch of UKIP members (obviously more were on each side) I really liked that presentation style.

[Victor the Crab]

The Brexit piece was very good. And quite head shaking. It's incredible that some people would want to cut off their own noses to spite everyone else, but that's what we've got right now. But, deep down, it's no surprise. There have always been those in Britain who've felt themselves far superior to their European neighbours, and this just shows it. Even Ollie admits to showing these tendencies from time to time. And I say this as someone who's family from his father's side all immigrated to Canada from the U.K., post WWII.

And the piece about the NRA was also very good. And a reality check to those hoping for any form of gun control. Sandy Hook should have showed us that to take on the NRA, you need to be prepared fro the fight of your life. And not get despondent and cynical everytime they lose.

[peeayebee]

I know. If nothing happens after 20 elementary school children are shot and killed, there doesn't seem to be any hope.

I recently read an article at Mother Jones called Fully Loaded: Inside the shadowy world of America's 10 biggest gun makers. Some quotes from it:

Quote

At the NRA's annual Corporate Executives Luncheon [2012], [Sturm Ruger CEO] Fifer presented a check to the group for more than $1.25 million—$1 for every Sturm Ruger gun purchased the prior year.

In the year following the [Sandy Hook) shooting, Sturm Ruger's profits increased 56 percent. Fifer's compensation that year was more than $2.6 million. He sits on the board of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a lobby group based in Newtown and run by former Sturm Ruger executive Steve Sanetti. Sturm Ruger's largest shareholders are mutual fund giant Vanguard Group and a private investment firm, London Company of Virginia, which has assets worth $10.6 billion, including holdings in ammunition, cigarettes, missiles, and caskets.

 

Subsidies and tax breaks:

Quote

• Sturm Ruger got $15M to not expand its New Hampshire factory and to open new one in North Carolina.

• Remington got $68.9M to downsize its NY factory and open a new one in Alabama.

• O.F. Mossberg & Sons got $300,000 to shift from its Connecticut factory to an expanded factory in Texas.

• Beretta got $10.4M to close its factory in Maryland and open a new one in Tennessee.

The whole thing is depressing.

Edited June 21, 2016 by peeayebee
formatting

[atomationage]

I thought the Fuck You Ode to Joy was hilarious, but like some others, I don't understand how you are allowed to have a child that age cursing on TV, even on pay cable. 

[Totale]

This kid looked about 12 - 13, Linda Blair was 14 when The Exorcist came out so younger when she played the part.  That seems potentially more damaging psychologically to me than just saying words which every kid has heard by that point on TV. 

[trow125]

The kid's a professional. He's done several Broadway shows.

I cannot believe that LWT hasn't put last night's NRA piece online! (The Brexit piece is up, but not the NRA one.) I really wanted to spread it around after today's Senate vote, but there are only "bootleg" versions on YouTube (which could presumably be taken off line at any moment if HBO sees them).

[dcalley]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Sturm Ruger's largest shareholders are mutual fund giant Vanguard Group

I need to sit down and review my retirement money to see if it's gun-free. goodbyegunstocks.com & unloadyour401k.com/ & campaign2unload.org/ There are socially responsible funds I've used before, but I dropped them because (this ties in to last week) their fees were too high because they're "actively managed."

[SnideAsides]

It's on Youtube.

[trow125]

47 minutes ago, SnideAsides said:

It's on Youtube.

True, thanks to random viewers posting it, but it's not on LWT's channel, which means HBO could have it taken down due to copyright violations. And people who only watch LWT by subscribing to the official channel won't see it.

[FortKnox]

It's a good thing.

I don’t want our congress or any legislature for matter to be making laws based on pure emotional reactions.

I don’t make my decisions for my life based on pure emotional reactionsas I have learned that reactions based on a pure emotional reaction are one I tend to regret later.

I don’t want our congress to make laws without weighing the consequences and
they can’t do that if their decisions are based purely on emotion.

I’m glad the senate chose to reject those proposals.

One congress enacts bad laws, it’s hard to get them off the books.

I think it was Jefferson who said that “Government that governs least, governs best.”

Edited June 21, 2016 by FortKnox

[purist]

Quote

The Brexit piece was very good. And quite head shaking.

Indeed. I am still shaking my head about the 'pillow' regulations. Hilarious!

As for the comment preceding mine, I can't even. I literally have no words.

Edited June 22, 2016 by purist

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, purist said:

Indeed. I am still shaking my head about the 'pillow' regulations. Hilarious!

I don't know what's worse. If they are dumb enough that they just ran a search for "pillow" and thought they found their proof or if they are cynical and evil enough that they figured nobody would check it out.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I don't understand how you are allowed to have a child that age cursing on TV

There is no law to prevent it; the children's parents would be the deciding factor. In some families swearing is no big deal. Look at the Osbournes. Hell, look at my (Italian) family. Some of my first words were swear words, and I learned them from my mother.

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I don’t want our congress or any legislature for matter to be making laws based on pure emotional reactions.

As John so expertly demonstrated there is no emotion behind the insidious stranglehold the NRA has on Congress. It's cold-blooded business and $$$.

[atomationage]

8 hours ago, wknt3 said:

or if they are cynical and evil enough that they figured nobody would check it out.

They rely on the "poorly educated" or unquestioning zombie-like followers, the same as here.  Italian tv is having a field day with Trump.   They translate "poorly educated" as "gente ignorante".  The ending of this might be disturbing after what happened in Orlando: 

I didn't like this show at first, but John Oliver eventually grows on you.   I can't say the same for Trevor Noah. 

[OneWhoLurks]

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Last Week Tonight typically airs on the British television network Sky Atlantic on Monday nights. The latest episode, which includes Oliver’s 15-minute rant on the Brexit referendum, has been pushed back to air Thursday night at 10:10 pm, after polls have closed. This means UK voters might not see Oliver’s argument until it is no longer relevant.

[...]

According to the Office of Communications (Ofcom), the UK’s communications regulator, broadcasting companies must abide by a strict code, which includes "special impartiality requirements" when it comes to content shown at the time of elections. The code states that Oliver’s rant must provide a counterargument to his point to avoid "the exclusion of views or opinions."

Despite insistence that the postponement is strictly for legal reasons, the company has already received backlash on social media. Some suspect Sky, owned by conservative media mogul Rupert Murdoch, specifically doesn’t want to air Oliver’s anti-Brexit rhetoric before the referendum is over.

 

John Oliver’s anti-Brexit rant won’t air in the UK until after polls close

ETA:
 

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On Tuesday morning David Beckham threw himself behind the Remain campaign, as Bob Geldof, John Oliver and JK Rowling have done before him.

But now the Harry Potter author has confirmed something about one of her characters that we probably all would have guessed.

The character being Vernon Dursley and the fact he’d definitely vote to leave the EU.

 

JK Rowling confirms what we probably all guessed about Vernon Dursley

ETA2:
 

Quote

 

At the time of Oliver's rant, the polls were tied at 44%, but now the latest polls are giving "remain" a 7-point lead before Thursday's referendum and this news is sure to solidify that lead.

David Beckham, style icon and former world class soccer star took to Instagram on Tuesday to voice his support for remaining in the European Union. 

"We live in a vibrant and connected world where together as a people we are strong. For our children and their children we should be facing the problems of the world together and not alone," wrote Beckham. For these reasons I am voting to Remain."

 

David Beckham Writes Heartfelt Post About Britain Remaining In EU

ETA3:
 

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In a recent interview, Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon argued that given the strength of the remain vote in her region, it would be “democratically indefensible, if we had voted to stay in, to face the prospect of being taken out.”

As such, both former British Prime Minister John Major and Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne have warned of a second Scottish independence referendum in the case of Brexit.

[...]

For Northern Ireland, not only has the EU played a significant role in the peace process, but the border and trade agreements between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom would be fundamentally challenged after Brexit. As the Telegraph reports, if Brexit occurred, the boundary between Ireland and Northern Ireland – which currently allows free flow of trade and travel – would have to be strengthened.

The border would then be an external EU border, requiring more controls on either side to prevent unwanted migration and monitor customs flow. Any additional restrictions on immigration increase transactions costs and hinder trade and travel, as residents along the American-Canadian border experienced after 9/11.

[...]

Similar to what research showed in earlier EU referendums in Netherlands and Denmark, anti-immigration attitudes are a key driver of Brexit votes. But a major uncertainty about the referendum vote is turnout.

According to the polling firm YouGov, the youngest voters (18-24) are the most supportive of remaining in the EU (60 percent for “remain”), while older ones (65+) are far more euroskeptical (59 percent for “leave”).

At the same time, young people are less likely to actually vote. Just 56 percent of 18-24-year-olds say they would be absolutely certain to vote, compared with 86 percent of 65+ voters. Thus, getting out the youth vote is crucial to the remain campaign’s success.

 

Would Brexit be followed by breakup of the United Kingdom?

Edited June 21, 2016 by OneWhoLurks

[Kromm]

17 hours ago, OneWhoLurks said:

John Oliver’s anti-Brexit rant won’t air in the UK until after polls close

It's such massive bullshit too. Plenty of Brexit themed programming is airing in the UK this week. Just search their media guides and TV reporting. Sky just chickened out, because Oliver actually might persuade people and someone might complain to their stupid OFCOM agency (which is so shit, it makes the FCC look like geniuses). 

That said if you search the exact phrase "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Brexit (HBO)" on the Twitter Advanced Search you'll see that a lot of famous British celebs are tweeting the clip to their social media bases to get around this. He's been a relative no-one to his own nation, who consider him a minor comedian most of them barely remember at most, but that may have changed after a few like this...

[iMonrey]

Quote

According to the Office of Communications (Ofcom), the UK’s communications regulator, broadcasting companies must abide by a strict code, which includes "special impartiality requirements" when it comes to content shown at the time of elections. The code states that Oliver’s rant must provide a counterargument to his point to avoid "the exclusion of views or opinions."

That's interesting but surely the Brits have the same access to YouTube, HBO Go, etc., as us Yanks? 

[fastiller]

6 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

That's interesting but surely the Brits have the same access to YouTube, HBO Go, etc., as us Yanks? 

They may have access to these sites, but with geo-blocking not all countries can view all videos.

[sum]

The clips are normally geo-blocked for the UK viewers but I heard this one was an exception. You can see lots of heated discussions by Brits in the comment box.

[Kromm]

22 minutes ago, sum said:

The clips are normally geo-blocked for the UK viewers but I heard this one was an exception. You can see lots of heated discussions by Brits in the comment box.

It's what normally happens online. Because Conservatives fear logic so much, they're actually more dedicated to jumping online and comment bombing. You can see that's what happened to that LWT video. It totally got comment bombed by the UKIPers (as well as a good number of American Hardline Conservative counterparts jumping in to help). 

[ganesh]

I think the simplest argument about the nra summed it up. You just have to say no to everything. It's easy and doesn't require any critical thinking. It's hard to counter that. 

[OneWhoLurks]

Quote

 

The Brexit is nearly upon us, and Bookmaker.eu has set the odds: -350 that the UK stays in the European Union and +250 that it leaves.

If you’re not a betting person, those numbers probably mean nothing to you. But take note, because betting odds have proven in the past to be more accurate in predicting political decisions than both polling and expert opinion.

 

Will Brexit Pass? Here are the Betting Odds on the EU Referendum

[atomationage]

On 6/20/2016 at 10:56 PM, trow125 said:

True, thanks to random viewers posting it, but it's not on LWT's channel, which means HBO could have it taken down due to copyright violations. And people who only watch LWT by subscribing to the official channel won't see it.

I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that Google is showing ads for the NRA as a lead in to videos discussing this issue.

[OneWhoLurks]

Quote

 

Allow me to explain. Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK (and thus part of the EU), is one of the popular HBO show’s primary shooting locations. While the UK remains part of the EU, “Game of Thrones” receives subsidies for filming in Northern Ireland via the EU’s European Regional Development Fund, which aims to stimulate economic growth across the EU. As the Independent notes, “Game of Thrones” creates numerous jobs across the EU, and the subsidies help make this possible.

This probably won’t come as much of a surprise to you, but “Game of Thrones” is an extremely expensive show. Those amazing battle scenes cost a pretty penny. So the show’s ability to entertain us and make us cheer people on for doing horrible things to each other (sorry I’m not sorry, Ramsay) depends a great deal on these subsidies from the EU.

If the UK leaves the EU, Northern Ireland goes with it, and “Game of Thrones” will no longer receive this strong source of funding, threatening the show’s ability to show us Jon Snow kicking ass and taking names.

 

If You’re A ‘GOT’ Fan, The ‘Brexit’ Result Is More Important Than You Think

[snowwhyte]

Britain has voted to leave the European Union, David Cameron has resigned as Prime Minister and we are heading into uncharted territory. I am now hoping that Scotland will have a new Independence vote and leave the UK, apply to rejoin the EU and then give me Scottish/Eu citizenship since I have a Scottish father. Can't wait to hear what John Oliver has to say next week.

[Victor the Crab]

If anything, this should be a wakeup call to American voters this November, as Britain is starting to realize what happens when you side with morons.

[snowwhyte]

Donald Trump is thrilled with the news which should be enough for people to realise they've made a huge mistake. It does seem a year for people voting against their own best interests so i'm becoming less confident that US voters will make the right choice in November.

[vibeology]

On June 20, 2016 at 11:58 PM, FortKnox said:

I think it was Jefferson who said that “Government that governs least, governs best.”

Wait, are we still lionizing this hypocrite? Jefferson wrote some nice sounding things and then did the exact opposite in pretty much every case. Jefferson railed against executive power when he wasn't the President but once in office pushed through the Louisiana Purchase by executive order. Also, in doing so passed huge sums of money to France (his adopted country) without Congress getting to vote. He wrote about freedom but owned (and raped) slaves. Wrote about fighting for liberty but ran and took the state militia with him as governor when the British attacked Richmond. Hated banking and international trade but when he enacted his trade embargo against Britisn and France, Americans literally starved to death. 

So, Jefferson's pretty quotes mean very little when it turns out his actions were in direct opposition to them and he wasn't a great leader. 

[fastiller]

On 6/24/2016 at 3:41 AM, snowwhyte said:

Britain has voted to leave the European Union, David Cameron has resigned as Prime Minister and we are heading into uncharted territory. I am now hoping that Scotland will have a new Independence vote and leave the UK, apply to rejoin the EU and then give me Scottish/Eu citizenship since I have a Scottish father. Can't wait to hear what John Oliver has to say next week.

Nicola Sturgeon is talking about a second independence vote for Scotland.  Both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted majority Remain.  As an Irish-American I do wonder what this does for the NI border.

Edited June 27, 2016 by fastiller

[Danny Franks]

This is an utterly appalling result. I watched the first few hours of results last night, but as soon as the Newcastle and Sunderland numbers came in, it was inevitable. The people of Britain have spoken, and too many English people wanted Exit, despite all the facts, experts and warnings that told them it was a bad idea. It's the foreigners, you see. Coming over here, stealing all the jobs that we're too good to do, and taking the housing we can't afford as a result of it. Those damned foreigners who are, at the same time, lazy criminals and incredibly hardworking buggers who'll steal a job right out from you.

Insane. The turkeys truly have voted for Christmas, here. Because it's the working class who have put the vote over the top, consigning the country to be run by Tories even more right wing and dangerous than Cameron and Osborne, without the checks and balances that EU legislation provided. Already the Sterling has crashed, the SNP have raised the prospect of another Scottish independence referendum, and even Sinn Fein feel bold enough to suggest the same for Northern Ireland (which might actually be welcomed by those who would otherwise have to figure out how the hell they're going to close and police the Irish border).

When you're praised by every hardline right winger in Europe, you should know you fucked up, big time. And to be fair, Boris Johnson looked mortified this morning. I honestly think he expected and wanted to lose this vote. I think he wanted to present himself as a statesman, lose graciously and maneuver himself into line behind Cameron for the PM's job. I don't think he ever wanted to leave the EU, and now he's committed to it. Of course, he's already backtracking and saying 'there's no rush', and will probably keep coming up with reasons to delay.

But in the meantime, I'm in a country where over half of the people who voted want to live in a fantasy world where everyone is well off, no one has a pesky foreign accent, and Rule Britannia is played on a 24-7 loop.... I'm currently in the process of applying for Irish citizenship, through my grandfather.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Danny Franks

[b2H]

4 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

If anything, this should be a wakeup call to American voters this November, as Britain is starting to realize what happens when you side with morons.

It was better said this morning on CNBC:. This is what happens when you govern by referendum.  The referendum isn't binding, but it would be political suicide to disregard the outcome.

the vote is seen as a slap in the face to the perceived Elites and I honestly see this as a canary in the coal mine for the US elections in November.

Edited June 24, 2016 by b2H

[atomationage]

I watched the live feed on Sky News last night until the Oxford and Glasgow results came in and it was almost 50/50 then.   I thought remain would win easily.    I hope Northern Ireland leaves the UK and unites with the south.  I hope Scotland doesn't leave the UK but it might happen.  I like UK politics better than ours.  The Scottish Referendum was what got me to watch John Oliver in the first place.  I'm hoping for a dull election here, because I don't want to listen to one more thing that Drumpf has to say.   I don't think he's a serious candidate, but people were laughing at Reagan in 1980 too. 

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, b2H said:

It was better said this morning on CNBC:. This is what happens when you govern by referendum.  The referendum isn't binding, but it would be political suicide to disregard the outcome.

the vote is seen as a slap in the face to the perceived Elites and I honestly see this as a canary in the coal mine for the US elections in November.

Clement Attlee said that "referendum is a device of dictators and the demagogues" when he turned down Churchill's request to offer a referendum on voting to extend the lifespan of the wartime coalition parliament. He was right. It's proved to be a way of crafting a very, very simplistic and black/white argument, to appeal to as many people as possible, with a populist message that plays well regardless of its accuracy. And the voters almost never vote solely on the question they're being asked. In this case, the political atmosphere was far, far too toxic for such a big question to be asked of the British people now. And we'll pay the price for the arrogance of those in power.

Scotland will leave. It's surely only a matter of time, now. They've been given the pretext they needed to call for a second referendum, and this time they'll sweep it easily. I can't even imagine how paltry the 'Better Together 2' campaign might be, after this.

What's more worrying for the future of Britain is the fact that a lot of the young people who voted to remain are now saying they feel betrayed by the older generation. That the baby boomers had the best of post-war Britain, enjoyed all the good years of European cooperation, enjoy their protected pensions, had the benefits of free education and free healthcare and a benefit system that helped them as much as it could. And that is all potentially being taken away now, largely because those older voters want the country to be like it used to be decades ago. Look at these figures:

HOW AGES VOTED
(YouGov poll)
18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+: 39% Remain

I don't know what that might mean for the dynamics of the UK as a whole, but it can't be conducive to harmonious cooperation.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Danny Franks

[Kromm]

37 minutes ago, atomationage said:

I watched the live feed on Sky News last night until the Oxford and Glasgow results came in and it was almost 50/50 then.   I thought remain would win easily.    I hope Northern Ireland leaves the UK and unites with the south.  I hope Scotland doesn't leave the UK but it might happen.  I like UK politics better than ours.  The Scottish Referendum was what got me to watch John Oliver in the first place.  I'm hoping for a dull election here, because I don't want to listen to one more thing that Drumpf has to say.   I don't think he's a serious candidate, but people were laughing at Reagan in 1980 too. 

I think this is the beginning of the end for Britain, and I hope the US sees this as a wakeup call too. UKIP is a cancer on the UK akin to our "Trump Nation" and we're barreling down the same path. It's not just some vague vote. If you login to a lot of the UK-based forums/boards you'll see scary scary posts where it's all emotion, slogans/rhetoric and a distinct lack of actual logic. It'll sound/look very familiar to anyone currently looking at our own situation.

I suspect the short term market problems will bounce back. For now. Maybe. What Oliver didn't really get into is that in theory the UK has two years to implement this. It can't, it WON'T, be stopped in that two years but the problem is whether or not the British PM enacts a certain measure, the so-called "Article 50" of the Treaty of Lisbon. Doing so is basically the official start to the EU withdrawal and while from a UK political standpoint it's already irreversible, that would also make it so on the EU end, and start a chain of events that could increase pressures.  And that next PM doing this won't be David Cameron, who just resigned. 

I can fully see Scotland leaving now--today they've already talked about another independence vote, and while I don't think Northern Ireland would try true independence, they ARE already talking about reunification with the rest of Ireland.

And I really wonder if people in the UK should be so complacent assuming Wales isn't ever going to decide they could be their own country too.  They voted almost as heavily to leave the EU as England did, and last time they were informally polled on their own Independence issue a few years ago it had some ridiculously low percentage wanting Independence (like 17%), but give it a few years. If Scotland leaves and Northern Ireland reunifies with Ireland, then don't be shocked if Welsh feelings start to change.

They've really fucked this up. Bigtime.  Oliver ain't gonna be happy.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Kromm

[Danny Franks]

1 minute ago, Kromm said:

And I really wonder if people in the UK should be so complacent assuming Wales isn't ever going to decide they could be their own country too.  They voted almost as heavily to leave the EU as England did, and last time they were polled on their own Independence issue a few years ago it had some ridiculously low percentage wanting Independence (like 17%), but give it a few years. If Scotland leaves and Northern Ireland reunifies with Ireland, then don't be shocked if Welsh feelings start to change.

The Welsh will realise they've been had when that money from Brussels isn't replaced with money from London. They've been sold an empty fantasy, and when they realise, then they'll want to follow the example of Scotland. This exceptionalism seems to be more an English problem than a British one. In time, Welsh nationalists will cotton on to that and wonder just what the hell they did.

I can only hope that all the disenfranchised can come together under a progressive banner and try to build a country that can work. It won't happen, though. All I can see is more division, acrimony and bitterness. 

[b2H]

Bring on next Sunday's program.  I do expect John to be somewhat apoplectic about the outcome.

[Kromm]

8 minutes ago, b2H said:

Bring on next Sunday's program.  I do expect John to be somewhat apoplectic about the outcome.

Well the "United Kingdom" was a nice experiment for three hundred years, but I suppose before long we'll have to get used to saying "England" again.

I don't think the royal family has said much publicly, but Liz has to be pretty unhappy that it's under her reign that the UK will probably end. Or I suppose if the possibility of that is too stressful, it could be King Charles who takes that bullet.  Not like Big Ears isn't used to taking lots of shit.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Kromm

[fastiller]

1 hour ago, atomationage said:

I watched the live feed on Sky News last night until the Oxford and Glasgow results came in and it was almost 50/50 then.   I thought remain would win easily.    I hope Northern Ireland leaves the UK and unites with the south.  I hope Scotland doesn't leave the UK but it might happen.  I like UK politics better than ours.  The Scottish Referendum was what got me to watch John Oliver in the first place.  I'm hoping for a dull election here, because I don't want to listen to one more thing that Drumpf has to say.   I don't think he's a serious candidate, but people were laughing at Reagan in 1980 too. 

&

57 minutes ago, Kromm said:

I think this is the beginning of the end for Britain, and I hope the US sees this as a wakeup call too. UKIP is a cancer on the UK akin to our "Trump Nation" and we're barreling down the same path. It's not just some vague vote. If you login to a lot of the UK-based forums/boards you'll see scary scary posts where it's all emotion, slogans/rhetoric and a distinct lack of actual logic. It'll sound/look very familiar to anyone currently looking at our own situation.

<SNIP>

I can fully see Scotland leaving now--today they've already talked about another independence vote, and while I don't think Northern Ireland would try true independence, they ARE already talking about reunification with the rest of Ireland.

 

I don't see a NI/ROI reunification in the future.

Nicola Sturgeon said that there'd be a second Scottish Independence vote in the future.

I do wonder if there won't be full devolution soon.

[Kromm]

Hah. This just in from Ricky Gervais:

[Gulftastic]

I was on holiday in Spain during the referendum. I got my 79 year old Mum to vote by proxy. She, like me, wants to stay in the EU. When we woke up on Friday and found out the result, our journey home was so depressing.

It's a right wing power grab, nothing less. And breaking up the UK will leave us at the mercy of the Tories.