Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[arjumand]

12 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

Nah... I think that's where Ned's trueborn daughter actually being Jon's cousin will probably save his butt. My hunch is Littlefinger will try to lay some trap to get what he wants that would be inescapable if Jon and Sansa were truly siblings, but as cousins it presents a "Take the Third Option" way to beat Littlefinger once and for all.
 

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter ( H. Simpson).
 

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Everything else will converge North to Winterfell where Jon, Sansa, Davos, Tormund, Brienne, Pod and eventually Bran and Meera are prepping for the Army of the Dead even as Littlefinger is trying to play politics.

I think it'll be the final season for Cersei, Lady Olenna and Littlefinger and I'm 50/50 on Jaime. They're the last gasps of the "Game" before the Army of the Dead makes it all meaningless.

 

What I bolded - wouldn't it be supremely, deliciously ironic, if after spending his entire life learning to play the Game so well that he thinks he can get on the Iron Throne (yeah right - a brothel-keeper. sure dude), that he's killed by a White Walker, or even more insulting, a wight? He's based his whole existence on the supreme importance of politics, he's used people, murdered people, destroyed entire families to get where he is, and he's swept aside like an irritating gnat by something he doesn't even believe in.

[Funzlerks]

An old lady dying of natural causes as she slept would certainly be the most shocking death yet on Game of Thrones.  It has to be the rarest cause of death in Westeros.

[ElizaD]

15 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

I think it'll be the final season for Cersei, Lady Olenna and Littlefinger and I'm 50/50 on Jaime. They're the last gasps of the "Game" before the Army of the Dead makes it all meaningless.

That sounds good to me. If the final season only has six episodes, fighting the White Walkers and finally getting to see all the major characters interact in various combinations should offer enough action and entertainment.

Now that Cersei no longer gives a damn I hope she goes down in a blaze of glory and manages to kill someone in Dany's cuddly, plot-armored and intrigue-free entourage. Dany's army vastly outnumbers hers, but Cersei should be able to come up with something nasty and self-destructive to make her pay. I'm tired of Dany's endless smug speeches and hordes of adoring followers, so I want Cersei to get a couple of wins.

[stillshimpy]

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Yes, I saw that too. She was really happy. And she does not trust Petyr. But I think there is a little bit of anger and jealousy inside her that Littlefinger will try to use against Jon. But that is to add drama, because she really loves her family and that love will prevail and Petyr will fail.

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Agree! She's still smiling when the camera focus on Jon and then on her! Is only after she sees Littefinger that her face changes.

Littlefinger is definitely dying next season, after a little bit of drama of course! But the maiden with the purple snakes in her hair is happening next season...

Unfortunately what I saw was "I'm pleased for Jon, we're a team, I'm glad for him....really I am...I'm trying really hard to be happy for...." *sees Littlefinger smirking like the embodiment of an evil smirk and as if he's swallowed yet another canary "...but Jon isn't making me Queen of the North....and Littlefinger said he wanted me on a Throne beside him...."  and then her smile just disappears entirely.  

I defend Sansa at pretty much every turn, but this story is about people wanting power and how power corrupts.  Sansa just got moved back into the slot where she doesn't matter much as anything other than potential breeding stock.  I know she said she wanted Jon to have Ned's room and I think she was happy enough to have him as KITN , but when she sees Littlefinger, that seed of "what will I get out of this now that I have my home back?"  is just there and Littlefinger knows it's there.  

I hope they wait until the seventh season to kill off Littlefinger, he's really the only well articulated and realized villain the series boasts.  He's fucking unnerving at every turn. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Alapaki]

3 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Dany's definitely getting sidetracked, I don't see her going right to the throne, it's too easy.

50-50 odds that D&D troll us by getting Tyrion to convince Dany to roam the ocean looking for "wherever it is that whores go".

[Audreythe2nd]

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Now it also means it is possible the Hound and the BWB will not be in the North until the last episodes of next season.

Hmmmm, it's odd though (and I have no idea how/why this would happen) but with Melisandre coming to the area and Thoros and Beric being on Arya's longlist, I almost feel like it would make more sense for all of those people to stay in the Riverlands with Arya (and possibly get murdered by her). I'm almost like, is it possible that the Hound gets to the North *first* before them, or instead of them? Do we think that Arya would make it to Winterfell before the end of Season 7 as well? I'm not sure myself.

[Edith]

11 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

50-50 odds that D&D troll us by getting Tyrion to convince Dany to roam the ocean looking for "wherever it is that whores go".

That would be funny! But I think Euron is probably the one to do that. Also remember the Hotu. I'm guessing Dany comes at Kings Landing at the end of season 7 only to find it destroyed (and filled with ashes and snow). The wall also will come down at the end and will have Dany finally going north and reuniting with her dead husband and son...

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, arjumand said:

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter ( H. Simpson).
 

What I bolded - wouldn't it be supremely, deliciously ironic, if after spending his entire life learning to play the Game so well that he thinks he can get on the Iron Throne (yeah right - a brothel-keeper. sure dude), that he's killed by a White Walker, or even more insulting, a wight? He's based his whole existence on the supreme importance of politics, he's used people, murdered people, destroyed entire families to get where he is, and he's swept aside like an irritating gnat by something he doesn't even believe in.

I really lean towards wanting Littlefinger to get a supernatural death. I'm probably looking forward to his death more than any other character. The only reason he edges out Cersei here is because we already have an idea of how she'll die (likely strangled) and have reasonably narrowed down the list of candidates, so it won't be as surprising as whatever GRRM and/or D&D have cooked up for him. 

I definitely like the idea of Littlefinger being terrified as he tries to out run wights or a White Walker but I also wouldn't mind him being dragon or direwolf food. 

Another good option I've seen floated around is Sansa poisoning him just as he thinks he's won. Have him clear his throat a few times before he realizes that something is wrong while Sansa starts talking about what a slimeball he is. A little like Livia's speech to Augustus after she's poisoned him in I, Claudius only Augustus was a lot nicer than Littlefinger. 

The Moon Door would be satisfying too but only if it's slow and not a quick push. Like he's surrounded and the guards press in, inch by inch as he pleads with Robin or Tyrion or Sansa for mercy or tries to claim that they have it all wrong. 

There's also the possibility of Jon taking off his head in King's Landing and having it be similar to Ned's death. 

Arya killing him wouldn't be as emotionally satisfying but it would be kind of fun to see him treating his prostitutes like crap only for him to be wide eyed and startled as fuck after one of them takes off her mask and gives him the Meryn Trant treatment. 

In the books, I'd actually like to see Jeyne Poole somehow make his ass pay but I can't think how she'd manage it. 

I can come up with death scenarios for this guy all day long. 

[Constantinople]

I wonder why there will be for Arya to do next season.

1 hour ago, Funzlerks said:

An old lady dying of natural causes as she slept would certainly be the most shocking death yet on Game of Thrones.  It has to be the rarest cause of death in Westeros

Hoster Tully and Maester Aemon are the only 2 characters I can think of who died of old age, but I'm not sure I'd count Hoster since he was only on the show as a corpse.

Even Lyanna dying of natural causes is pretty rare.

[nksarmi]

I'm going to have to watch it again, but I didn't see Sansa being upset that Jon was crowned KiTN. I don't think she expected any more than he did. I think he didn't give her credit because he was focused on "Wow, we just might make it out of this alive!" See Jon isn't all "yea I get to be king!" because he knows "Winter is here" means that his "kingdom" could be overrun with the dead before he can even begin to gather enough dragon glass to defend it.

I think Sansa was mostly happy for Jon and then looked over at Littlefinger and though "crap, what is HE going to do about this?" Because, to me, LF looked caught off guard. I imagine he was expecting there to be some debate about who would rule Winterfell, but I don't think he expected KiTN again. Now what does he do? And to me, that was Sansa's look. She knew LF wasn't getting what he wanted and what happens to people who stand in the way of what LF wants? Per Sansa's experience - those people (Geoffrey / Lysa) die. I saw worry and concern - not jealousy or envy of Jon.

I think the North will be somewhat minimized next season now that Dany has to take KL. Cersei will almost certainly align with Eurone since she needs ships and can offer him the same thing he wanted from Dany. With only 7 episodes, I bet they can fill up a lot of time with that story. Depending on how much time they want to spend on the Great War with The Others in season 8, I can see season 7 ending with either Dany being crowned Queen in KL (with the North still in "revolt") or with Queen Dany and King Jon meeting to discuss an accord (and let's face it with the lack of men left on the show - probably a marriage contract).

I know Sansa wanted to marry a prince but she never had the dogged desire to be queen that Marg had. I'm sure LF will mess with her head and Jon will be clueless about what LF is doing. But I think in the end Sansa will stay true. Now Martin might piss off TONS of fans and have her go her book route with LF instead of Tyrion, but damn that would be so wrong. Sansa needs to be LF's downfall plain and simple. Once that happens, she can have pretty much any ending - as queen with Jon, back with Tyrion, a love match with a Northern Lord, etc....

Oh and after last year's "No Jon Snow really IS dead" interviews from the cast, I don't care what these people are saying now. It could just be them messing with our heads. I don't think we will see Sansa betray Jon - and I definitely hope we don't get that story.

[benteen]

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Wandering somewhere: Jorah, Gendry

Gendry.  Forever rowing.

I wouldn't be surprised if him and Arya also cross paths next season.

[Umbelina]

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Littlefinger's only real advantage is that he can position himself as the only one on Sansa's side and the only one protecting her interests, now that everyone else--even Lord Royce--willingly passed her over in favour of Jon. I don't expect him to win, but it won't be as simple as "Jon and Sansa love and trust each other the end." It seems like Season 7 will be a battle for Sansa's soul, with Jon as the human golden retriever angel and Littlefinger as the manipulative, power-hungry devil on Sansa's shoulders.

Sansa dismissed Littlefinger's dream of her on the Iron Throne as a "pretty picture," but I'm guessing seeking the support of someone whose fondest wish is to make you queen must be looking a lot more attractive in light of what went down at the Northern lords' gathering.

As for Sansa's glassy smile when everyone was shouting KITN, Sansa's too well bred to make a fuss in public (number one rule of ladying is never show strong emotions in public), but that doesn't mean she was happy. Cat wasn't happy about Robb being named KITN, either, but she still offered him an encouraging little smile when he looked to her for approval the same way Jon looked to Sansa.

Littlefinger's advantage is that he is smarter and more ruthlessly goal oriented than almost anyone in Westeros.  He also knows a hell of a lot about how things really run, and the personalities involved, as well as past secrets.  I loved that scene with Sansa when he described his thought process in making decisions.  I  think, that should he want it, he could quite easily get rid of Cersei in Kings Landing and probably be made King right now.  Of course, Dany and the White Walkers are both about to show up, so that would severely limit his reign, but Sansa might not know that.  If being passed over and ignored in favor of Jon really does chaff her as much as interviews have said, and if as GRRM has hinted, she is not really a Stark now?  She might.

8 hours ago, Advance35 said:

I think Sansa is in a very congested place right now.   I don't think she knows what she really wants other then safety.  I don't doubt she loves Jon and I don't think she would side with outsiders against him, no matter how frustrated she gets but I do think she wants more for herself.   She's not Queen in the North, what is she now?  Jon Snow's ward?   Winterfell (if we want to get technical and I don't think he'd EVER press the point) is his.  The North by election, is his.   I don't know what the hell that makes Sansa.   I think Sansa is going to be very interesting in the inevitable power grab that will come about when Dany, Tyrion, Olenna, Ellaria and their forces all congregate.  There are still the Riverlands to be sorted.   Emotions can't be turned on and off.  I think Sansa wants to trust Jon, but she can't truly trust or open up to ANYONE.   That may change if she survives Cersei due to Jon's protection.   I see Sansa ULTIMATELY siding with the side of the angels, but I think there will be more drama before she gets there.

Cersei is not the only Queen I think is in trouble.  Olenna Tyrell CAN NOT hold Highgarden.  There is the issue of succession.  Ambitious bannerman are in every Kingdom, I would assume that goes double for a status hungry place like the Reach.   I think she just wants to hold out enough to see Cersei fall.

I don't think Jon AND Dany will both survive the Otherpocalypse.  And Dany can't have children so there are MUCH more politics to come I'm sure.  Who will be her heir to the Iron Throne when she takes it?

Dany might be able to have kids.  GRRM has always said to take the prophesies with large grains of salt, and there is this:  http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1799

Sansa could be anything right now.  I'm a bit annoyed with the writing (show) because it's incredibly vague and her scenes can and have been interpreted differently by almost everyone that is watching them.  I think that's deliberate to hide her eventual story from us, which could be just about anything.  Honestly.  She could betray or be loyal to Jon.  She could be Queen, marry Jon, or Littlefinger (who very well could be King, but it would probably be a short reign.)  She could enjoy her home, survive the Winter and call it a day.  She could, like her Aunt, throw caution to the wind and marry Sandor for love.  (I would be shocked at that one though.)  She could die, in several ways.  Honestly, she is like clay, mold her anyway you want to.

8 hours ago, SeanC said:

We don't know how widely-known Jon's parentage would ever become.  Regardless, he's proclaimed king, and other than potential angst with Sansa that, however it's resolved, is unlikely to be resolved in terms unfavourable to Jon, I don't see any of his siblings trying to oust him.  If the other Starks assent, why wouldn't the lords?  Particularly since, sadly, Jon is a much more traditionally kingly figure than Bran.

We need Howland Reed.  Bran wouldn't oust Jon though, he's unable to have children, and from a medical certainty, not some nasty witch's prophesy, but more than that, he's the 3 eyed raven now, and responsible for much more than simply Winterfell. 

ETA

Bran ruined the magical protections of the tree house, so he now knows that will happen.  For that reason alone, I can't see Bran entering Winterfell again, which has magical protections of it's own.  Unless they were wrecked by not having a Stark in continual residence?

8 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

THIS. So much.  There's a disconnect between what the writers and actors are telling us, and what they are actually showing us. Maybe Jon not giving Sansa more credit for what she knows was a mistake on his part according to D&D, but when Jon asked her what they should do she said "I don't know." Plus, she had important information she chose not to share with him. 

Exactly.  I covered this above though, and I think it's deliberate, which may mean a great story ahead for her, no matter which way it happens.  They gave her to Ramsay as well, whether for the additional rape and horror scenes, which really did backfire on them, hence the "Girl Power!" season we just had.  Still, I suspect it was a way to fast forward her training in the Great Game.  In other words, I think her time with Littlefinger probably got her to the same general character place as the books will, but was less interesting for them to film.

7 hours ago, Oscirus said:

 

Ok, R+L=J, so what? How does that change anything?  Cersei's coronation just showed us that birthright doesn't mean as much as everybody thinks it does.

Dany's definitely getting sidetracked, I don't see her going right to the throne, it's too easy.

Cersei's biggest threat is that she's still sitting on a ton of wildfire and she's shown that she's more then willing to use it if threatened.

Jon is a Targ, so it does change things, but what?  For one thing, Dany has always been all about "the true ruler!" and Jon outranks her.  It could go several ways, but Jon is both a Stark and a Targ now, Fire and Ice.  Seems pretty significant to me.

Dany will have the White Walkers, so she's got plenty to do.  Deposing Cersei should be easy for almost anyone with a plan really. 

Yes, that's why Cersei was proclaimed Queen.

7 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

I think the odds are pretty low. Before the episode aired, I felt confident that once Arya killed Walder she'd collect Nymeria and head "home" as she told Jaquen. But the look on her face as she killed Walder tells me that she is too far gone to ever go home. She keeps calling herself Arya Stark but the girl on my screen is more No One than Arya. As much as I hate the idea, I think she will continue working on her list and head to King's Landing for Cersei & the Mountain. She'll probably also run into Melisandre, who is now conveniently heading 'south'. I just can't imagine how this cold-blooded killer could ever fit in at Winterfell with her equally (but differently) damaged siblings. And the idea that she'll never go home pisses me off because one of the things I've desperately wanted was a Jon & Arya reunion before he goes off to battle the Night King.

I think Arya's most likely next steps are to meet up with the Brotherhood, and with Sandor, possibly with Gendry, and hopefully with Nymeria.  I hate the prophesy for Arya but it's probably true, simply because I can picture that scene in the books and on the show, and that it would be heartbreaking.  I hope she at least gets to see Jon or a sibling before she dies.

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

Also, since we're in the speculation racket: Season 7 is Cersei's last season, Y/N?

I hope so.  Unlike just about everyone else, I can't stand the TV version of Cersei.  Of all of the actresses and storyline's, these choices have bothered me from the very beginning, she never "fit" for me, although I think her "mad" scenes are her best and most like book Cersei.  I never thought she was beautiful enough either (ducks eggs being thrown) and I didn't think her passion for Jamie played very well either.  Aside from that, the pandering by the writers seriously ruined any chance of the actress winning me over.   At this point, I don't need any twists about which of the many, many little brothers might kill her.  I want Jamie to do it.  Now we know that Jon is also a little brother for real too, like so many others.  Still?  I want Jamie to do it.

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

Jaime I'm more ambiguous on.  It's possible to me that he gets a hero's demise in the war against the White Walkers, or he may simply die in bringing down Cersei.

Show Jamie and book Jamie are so very different, who knows?  He killed another ruler for threatening the use of wildfire.  I think the show can't play the absolute love Jamie has always felt for his sister well, so they will probably not capture the heartbreak of him killing her half as well as the books will, but still?  I hope he's the one to kill her.  As for how he dies, because I'm pretty certain he will?  I just hope FOR ONCE the writers give him a good speech that shows his tragic journey.

5 hours ago, Funzlerks said:

An old lady dying of natural causes as she slept would certainly be the most shocking death yet on Game of Thrones.  It has to be the rarest cause of death in Westeros.

Ha!

I know the show probably won't do more Lyanna flashbacks, but damn, I would have loved to see her story!  She's probably one of the most interesting women in this tale.  http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lyanna_Stark

Edited June 28, 2016 by Umbelina
added the Bran magic stuff

[Bill1978]

So with Cersei as the Ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, that means she could bring back Trial By Combat, meaning people who want it may get their Cleganebowl after all.

[Eyes High]

57 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

So with Cersei as the Ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, that means she could bring back Trial By Combat, meaning people who want it may get their Cleganebowl after all.

Benioff said in one of the after-episode segments that now that Cersei can get whatever she wants, the question is what she does want. Jaime reminded us a few episodes back that Cersei "wants Sansa dead." Sansa's safe from Cersei's reach as long as she stays at Winterfell, but what if she goes south? Maybe this tension with Jon results in a rift that leads to Sansa abandoning Winterfell, or maybe LF successfully persuades her to write off her claim to Winterfell as a lost cause and try to consolidate a power base in another region (the Riverlands if Edmure and his child die, for example). I'm not so sure about Cersei trying to dispose of Sansa via trial by combat--I'm pretty sure this Cersei would just give Sansa the Unella treatment--but there could be some sort of showdown between the Cleganes over Sansa's life if Sansa comes south again and if Cersei sends Gregor to deal with Sansa.

In between the pincers of the zombie apocalypse, of KITN Jon, who has the support of the Vale and who's been warned by Sansa not to trust LF, and of Dragon Queen Dany, who has dragons and has as her chief advisors two people who hate LF, LF looks like he's rapidly becoming obsolete. Could Season 7 also be LF's last?

Edited June 28, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

A few pages back, we were debating potential main cast additions, with Daniel Portman, Ben Crompton and Jacob Anderson the specific names under discussion.  Two others occurred to me:  Ellie Kendrick, who was the real star of Bran's plotline this season, in my opinion, and Gemma Whalen.  For the record, the main cast listing as of 610 (dead regulars in square brackets):

1. Peter Dinklage
2. Nicolaj Coster-Waldau
3. Lena Headey
4. Kit Harington (he has suddenly jumped ahead of Emilia Clarke in the last two episodes, after several seasons behind her)
5. Emilia Clarke
6. [Natalie Dormer] (given a bump-up in her final appearance)
7. Liam Cunningham
8. Sophie Turner (her title card has also moved up in the ranks toward the end of the season; earlier this year she was behind Gillan and van Houten)
9. Aidan Gillan
10. Carice van Houten
11. Nathalie Emmanuel
12. Indira Varma (bet you forgot she was a regular)
13. Maisie Williams (overdue for one of these since Season 2; why she only got it in the final episode of the season is anybody's guess)
14. [Jonathan Pryce] (also getting a solo title card for his final appearance)
15. Conleth Hill & [Dean-Charles Chapman] (Chapman's credit also moves up considerably from earlier in the season)
16. Kristofer Hivju & John Bradley
17. Isaac Hempstead Wright & Jerome Flynn
18. Alfie Allen & [Michiel Huisman] & Hannah Murray (Huisman's character isn't dead, but we've presumably seen the last of him)

Gwendoline Christie, Rory McCann and Iain Glen (the latter always at the very end with the "with" credit) were absent from this episode.

The series shed seven series regulars this year:  Michael McElhatton, Tom Wlaschiha, Iwan Rheon, Natalie Dormer, Jonathan Pryce, Dean-Charles Chapman, Michiel Huisman.  Like Huisman, Wlaschiha's character isn't dead, but unless there's a very late introduction of the Faceless Men's involvement in Oldtown, we've probably seen the last of him.

Edited June 28, 2016 by SeanC

[Advance35]

GoT Season Finale Article

I found this deadline article to be very interesting.  Given by the show runners and it say's a lot about how they see Cersei Lannister and what's ahead for the show's canvas.  I find it very interesting, looking at the characters they enjoy writing for and whatnot.   I get the impression Cersei will not be leaving us early in Season 7.  I also get the impression we will see more of Olenna whom I am very interested in, since this finale really opened avenues they can explore with the character.   

And it's VERY interesting, how they parallel the two women.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Advance35

[SeanC]

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WEISS: I don’t think of the Night King as a villain as much as, Death. He is not like Joffrey, or Ramses. He’s not really human anymore. To me, evil comes when you have a choice between that and good, and you choose the wrong way. The Night King doesn’t have a choice; he was created that way, and that’s what he is. In some ways, he’s just death, coming for everyone in the story, coming for all of us. In some ways, it’s appropriate he doesn’t speak. What’s death going to say? Anything would diminish him. He’s just a force of destruction. I don’t think we’ve ever been tempted to write dialogue for the Night King. Anything he said would be anticlimactic.

That's easily the most interesting commentary I've seen from them in a long time, since the nature of the White Walkers and what sort of resolution the conflict will arrive at has been a subject of such debate.

EDIT:  Actually, the more I think about it, the more significant this statement is, because it would seem to rule out a lot of the fan theories about, e.g., broken treaties with the White Walkers.

Edited June 28, 2016 by SeanC

[Eyes High]

Interesting quotes about Season 7 in that Deadline D&D interview:

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Who is [Cersei] without her children? The answer is something you’ll find out next season. That’s so much of what is to come that I’ll just give it away if I start delving into it now.

Sansa better watch her back.

When asked about the Wall:

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If the Wildlings managed to make it over, which they have, and the Night King has so much more in the way of both power and troops who’ll do literally anything he says…we’ll keep it at that for now.

On the endgame:

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BENIOFF: We’ve been talking about the ending, from the beginning. (...) As we get close to the ending, we’ve been talking about that for so long, things come into better focus. Once we get to the final end game, we’ve got very specific ideas that have grown organically over the past six plus years about where everything will end up.

On the episode count:

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BENIOFF: It’s two more seasons we’re talking about. From pretty close to the beginning, we talked about doing this in 70-75 hours, and that’s what we’ll end up with. Call it 73 for now.

I'm guessing that seven-episode count they gave for Season 7 a few months ago will stick, since they were saying 13 episodes total for the last two seasons a few months ago and they're still using that as a number, even though all the episodes are likely written by now. Looks like they might still be wrangling with HBO over whether Season 8 will be six episodes or as many as eight, though.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Eyes High

[bluvelvet]

Throwing my .02 cents into the speculation pool, I am not good at speculating in general but here are my thoughts

I read the scene as Sansa being supportive of Jon, as for what the actors say and what plays out on screen those can be two different things sometimes. Not everything makes it to screen so we will see how it plays out. That being said, I do believe that there will be conflict with Jon and Sansa next season with LF playing a role but in the end Sansa will stand with Jon. I do believe he should have publicly given her credit but he looked shocked to me so it probably didn't cross his mind.  As for Sansa's trust issues, Sansa has been through hell and back so I don't see her trusting ANYONE easily, not even Jon who she didn't have the best relationship with to begin with. Trust has to be earned and I do believe that while they have been facing obstacles together, she hasn't had enough time to fully trust him because she has been burned in the past. I don't think Sansa has any interest in being queen, she just wants to be home.

As for Danaerys, I think she will get sidetracked...as all of you have so eloquently said, Cersei wouldn't last a day against Dany's army and her dragons. She isn't making it to KL that fast, something will side track her and I HOPE we don't get a season of Dany at sea..

I don't think Jon/Dany will get married but I do think Jon will stay up North as Warden once the truth comes out about him being the legitimate son of Lyanna/Rhaegar.  I don't think he is a bastard.  Cersei said in S1 that the North cannot be held by an outsider, it was too big and wild.  I also don't see how Dany can hold the North, I don't see the Dothraki or Unsullied doing very well in those harsh conditions and I don't know how well her dragons will fare with all that snow and cold, so her reach there would be tenouous at best. So that leaves her nephew Jon who is from the North and already has the respect of the Northern houses. If his Targaryen ancestry comes out that opens the road for an alliance with House Stark via marriage to Sansa who is the trueborn daughter of Ned Stark and that cements Dany's control in North who will have a Targaryen/Northman leader.  Assuming Jon or Sansa stays alive if course. This season has already set up Jon/Sansa as  a unit, and while Sansa was the silent partner during the KITN bit, she was at his side at the head table where the Lady of Winterfell would be.

As for Tyrion, I was definitely getting some romantic vibes in their scene and I also don't think Tyrion is a Targ. I think he is a Lannister through and through.

[SeanC]

Just now, bluvelvet said:

I also don't see how Dany can hold the North

The same way Aegon the Conqueror did, presumably.

[jjjmoss]

27 minutes ago, SeanC said:

A few pages back, we were debating potential main cast additions, with Daniel Portman, Ben Crompton and Jacob Anderson the specific names under discussion.  Two others occurred to me:  Ellie Kendrick, who was the real star of Bran's plotline this season, in my opinion, and Gemma Whalen.  

I was just thinking about people with 20 episodes, and those 3 men also have appeared in 50%+ of multiple seasons.

The 3 who don't qualify but were made regulars anyway are Ellaria, Jeor, and Roose, and personally they didn't feel like main cast to me.

[bluvelvet]

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The same way Aegon the Conqueror did, presumably.

I didn't read the books, did they ever discuss if there was a Warden of the North during his reign or did the North obey because you know *dragons*

[Minneapple]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Sansa could be anything right now.  I'm a bit annoyed with the writing (show) because it's incredibly vague and her scenes can and have been interpreted differently by almost everyone that is watching them.  I think that's deliberate to hide her eventual story from us, which could be just about anything.  Honestly.  She could betray or be loyal to Jon.  She could be Queen, marry Jon, or Littlefinger (who very well could be King, but it would probably be a short reign.)  She could enjoy her home, survive the Winter and call it a day.  She could, like her Aunt, throw caution to the wind and marry Sandor for love.  (I would be shocked at that one though.)  She could die, in several ways.  Honestly, she is like clay, mold her anyway you want to.

Sansa is the Little Black Dress of Westeros, yes? Dress her up or down and she can be a good match for just about anything. 

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I know the show probably won't do more Lyanna flashbacks, but damn, I would have loved to see her story!  She's probably one of the most interesting women in this tale.  http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lyanna_Stark

I know! I'd love to see Lyanna flashbacks.

[Maximum Taco]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Sansa could be anything right now.  I'm a bit annoyed with the writing (show) because it's incredibly vague and her scenes can and have been interpreted differently by almost everyone that is watching them.  I think that's deliberate to hide her eventual story from us, which could be just about anything.  Honestly.  She could betray or be loyal to Jon.  She could be Queen, marry Jon, or Littlefinger (who very well could be King, but it would probably be a short reign.)  She could enjoy her home, survive the Winter and call it a day.  She could, like her Aunt, throw caution to the wind and marry Sandor for love.  (I would be shocked at that one though.)  She could die, in several ways.  Honestly, she is like clay, mold her anyway you want to.

To me this is what makes Sansa the most intriguing character, in the books as well as the show. Everyone else has a very clear motivation and sometimes a method. Not Sansa though.

Sansa is the wildcard, other then Winterfell (and in the show, revenge on Ramsay) she has very few goals, and she has no concrete loyalties. She has nothing that she definitely will or will not do on principle, and other then Cersei she has no real enemies anymore.

Very interested in where they take her.

[arjumand]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

The same way Aegon the Conqueror did, presumably.

I doubt that the showrunners / GRRM are going to do that idea twice - I see the whole 'Jon is a Targaryen' and now he's at Winterfell with Sansa storyline as leading to a reconciliation between the two families, a joining of that initial rift of Torrhen Stark being the 'King who knelt'. At the time, there couldn't be a marriage treaty as the Targaryens were still in the business of marrying their siblings, and probably considered marrying outside the family beneath them. Now, however, it could happen.

Also, Aegon the Conqueror didn't have White Walkers and the Night King to contend with.

It's interesting that the showrunners talked about the Night King being analogous to Death - that seems to imply he can't be defeated. I saw a yt video suggesting that the series will end with a reconciliation / treaty between humans and the Night King / White Walkers rather than a final battle. But the show's White Walkers have never even been shown speaking - how would that work?

[Umbelina]

That might be what Sam will find in the library.

[Conan Troutman]

14 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

I think the odds are pretty low. Before the episode aired, I felt confident that once Arya killed Walder she'd collect Nymeria and head "home" as she told Jaquen. But the look on her face as she killed Walder tells me that she is too far gone to ever go home. She keeps calling herself Arya Stark but the girl on my screen is more No One than Arya. As much as I hate the idea, I think she will continue working on her list and head to King's Landing for Cersei & the Mountain. She'll probably also run into Melisandre, who is now conveniently heading 'south'. I just can't imagine how this cold-blooded killer could ever fit in at Winterfell with her equally (but differently) damaged siblings. And the idea that she'll never go home pisses me off because one of the things I've desperately wanted was a Jon & Arya reunion before he goes off to battle the Night King.

I don't think she's going to kill Cersei. If Sansa's the YMBQ, she may be the Valonqar (I don't think it's going to be some random younger sibling, the Valonqar has to be either the younger sibling of Cersei herself or of the YMBQ), but I don't think that Arya really deserves to kill her (at least not as much as other people). Olenna comes to mind, and then there are Tyrion (already wants her dead) and Jaime (not yet, but that last look he gave her wasn't one of love and admiration), who are the prime Valonqar candidates anyway.  

Besides, I don't think Arya would even want to head south. I think one of the reasons she went after Walder right away was that the ship happened to land nearby, so taking a slight detour on her way to Winterfell makes sense. I can see her meeting Sandor, Beric and Thoros on the way up north, and very likely Mel, too (who may or may not already be with the BwB). Mel even said in season three "we will meet again" and so far, I don't see any reason to doubt this. Since Dany has her own red priestess now and Mel brought back Jon already, I also don't see the point in keeping her around any longer. 

Basically, I think the show will be divided into a north and south plot. In the North, we have all the players already there (plus Brienne, Pod, Sam and Gilly should return sooner or later), with Arya & whoever she doesn't kill arriving in Winterfell towards the end of the season. And the south will mostly focus on Dany's invasion and Cersei's downfall. The wild card here is Euron, but as Yara and Theon are with Dany now, he should be part of the south plot, too. 

14 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Something I've been meaning to ask is what happened to the scene that the actress who played Shae was rumored to have filmed? Was it just a bullshit rumor? Was it cut? Will it be included next season? I was super intrigued by this and was disappointed that nothing came of it. It's strange too because I don't even like the Shae character in the show or the books but I thought this might have been interesting. 

The actress clearly was on set and in costume, so I can only assume the scene was cut. And since they left Meereen, they can't really hold it back for next season. It wouldn't have been important plot wise anyway, probably just to show Tyrion's state of mind, which can be accomplished in a myriad of other ways. 

12 hours ago, arjumand said:

What I bolded - wouldn't it be supremely, deliciously ironic, if after spending his entire life learning to play the Game so well that he thinks he can get on the Iron Throne (yeah right - a brothel-keeper. sure dude), that he's killed by a White Walker, or even more insulting, a wight? He's based his whole existence on the supreme importance of politics, he's used people, murdered people, destroyed entire families to get where he is, and he's swept aside like an irritating gnat by something he doesn't even believe in.

They foreshadowed something like that when Varys said LF would be king of the ashes. So maybe LF (who's still friends with Olenna) makes a play for the throne and succeeds. Like Cersei, he won't hold the throne for long and you'd think Dany would remove him before the WW could get to KL (if they ever make it that far south, which is doubtful), but it would be nice. 

[Oscirus]

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The wildfire is a fun wild card and makes me wonder if Dany will accidentally blow up the Red Keep and other areas of King's Landing when she makes her dragon/s attack. Varys knows about what happened at the sept but will they think that all of the wildfire is gone? If they think it's there would they risk an attack? I'm definitely curious as to how this works out.

They'd definitely know that all the wild fire's not gone since Tyrion and probably Varys knows there's a lot of it under all the major King's landing landmarks.

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I would like Lyanna/Rhaegar flashbacks, but I doubt that's gonna happen, if only for the problem of who are you going to cast as the most handsome prince who ever handsomed, with long white-blond hair and purple eyes

Probably won't get it because it's really not important to Jon's story. His parentage was important but their love story, not so much.

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Also, since we're in the speculation racket: Season 7 is Cersei's last season, Y/N?

Definitely, the writers way of operating seems to be let the villains get as powerful as they can then pull the rug out from under them.

 

I tend to think that Sansa's last eye lock with LF was that she was thinking about what he said.

[Eyes High]

I doubt TV Rhaegar would have purple eyes--he'd probably have blue eyes or green eyes like Harry Lloyd and Emilia Clarke--and they could get a white-blond wig pretty handily. Fans may bitch about how he's insufficiently handsome, but they always do (see also TV Loras, TV Renly, etc. etc.).

[Umbelina]

Well, from that interview with D and D, it's obvious we are going to have "all Cersei all the time" or as much as her as possible for most of next season.

 

gag

[Eyes High]

13 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Well, from that interview with D and D, it's obvious we are going to have "all Cersei all the time" or as much as her as possible for most of next season.

 

gag

D&D have made no secret of how they love to write for Lena's Cersei, and if Season 7 is Cersei's last, it would make sense that she would be front and centre. Not to mention that she seems to have become the only antagonist for Team Dany.

[Advance35]

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Sansa better watch her back.

This was my exact thought when we saw Cersei's coronation.  We basically have Cersei Lannister unleashed now.   I think the only things she's ever lived for are herself, her children and settling vendetta's with EXTREME prejudice.   But then I thought about it and I wasn't sure whom Cersei would go at first, Ellaria and her Sand Snakes in Dorne or Sansa in the North.

One thing that makes me think it may end up being The Dorne ladies and maybe Olenna is, I think Cersei would have to kill Jon Snow to get to Sansa (despite whatever trouble Sansa gets herself into/causes with LF, I don't see Jon letting anyone kill her).   And didn't Dany's vision by the HoU show a destroyed Kings Landing or was it just the Red Keep Throne Room?   I feel like that is where Cersei is going to go down swinging, with a LOT of Wildfire.

I wish Season 7 was here.

[cambridgeguy]

3 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

This was my exact thought when we saw Cersei's coronation.  We basically have Cersei Lannister unleashed now.   I think the only things she's ever lived for are herself, her children and settling vendetta's with EXTREME prejudice.   But then I thought about it and I wasn't sure whom Cersei would go at first, Ellaria and her Sand Snakes in Dorne or Sansa in the North.

Will Cersei be satisfied with killing only Sansa?  She can't go around calling herself Queen of the Seven Kingdoms when the North, Dorne, the Reach, the Vale (arguably), and the Iron Islands are all in open rebellion.  She doesn't have the military strength to go invading the North, even in their weakened state.  Sansa will have to wait unless she's OK with sending an assassin after her.

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D&D have made no secret of how they love to write for Lena's Cersei, and if Season 7 is Cersei's last, it would make sense that she would be front and centre. Not to mention that she seems to have become the only antagonist for Team Dany.

Most of the main characters have already been consolidated to a few groups.  There's team Dragon, team Wolf, and team Lion.  Their might also be a team Riverlands if Arya, the Hound, and Brienne meet-up, and the rest (Sam, Jorah) might show up for a couple of scenes.  It makes sense for all of the big players to get more screentime.  Might as well make the most of that 500K the main stars are getting per episode.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

As for Danaerys, I think she will get sidetracked...as all of you have so eloquently said, Cersei wouldn't last a day against Dany's army and her dragons. She isn't making it to KL that fast, something will side track her and I HOPE we don't get a season of Dany at sea..

Quick trip to Valyria maybe?

[benteen]

Tyrion knows about the Dorne alliance but I hope he avenges Myrcella by killing Ellaria eventually.  He sent Mrycella to Dorne under the protection of House Martell and Ellaria destroyed that.

[Eyes High]

Something just occurred to me about Cersei's ascension to the IT and Littlefinger.

Littlefinger promised Cersei Sansa's head and obtained her permission to take the Knights of the Vale north to flush out the Boltons in exchange for Wardenship of the North. Littlefinger probably figured--not unreasonably--that Cersei would blunder into losing whatever power she had, so there was no harm in promising her Sansa Stark's head when she would never be in a position to collect. Littlefinger informs Sansa in 6x10 that news of the BOTB will spread quickly through the seven kingdoms, i.e. the news that the Knights of the Vale, led by Littlefinger and Sansa Stark, helped the Stark forces crush the Boltons. He also informs her that he has declared for the Starks, news that will also presumably spread quickly.

None of this would be a problem if Cersei was in the downcast state she was in up until 6x10. However, now Cersei sits the Iron Throne and will find out that Littlefinger betrayed her and that Sansa is still alive. I don't know how much she can do about it if LF and Sansa stay North, where Cersei can't really reach them. However, if Cersei is as vicious and dangerous as D&D are suggesting, Littlefinger may have already made a fatal miscalculation, which appears to be the same miscalculation everyone who's gone up against Cersei and lost has made: underestimating her.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Eyes High

[huahaha]

The "Varys is a merman" theory is going around again. I will be so happy if it's true, especially after back-to-back shots of him in Dorne and then on the boats. The world of Game of Thrones is more likely to have mermen than teleporters, after all.

I'm starting to be more intrigued by Theon. He has the most dramatic character arc of anyone, and I've never understood why since he seems to be a minor player. But now he's basically the only real link between Daenerys and Jon. Something tells me he'll have a critical role to play between them in the future.

Edited June 28, 2016 by huahaha

[Alapaki]

1 minute ago, huahaha said:

I'm starting to be more intrigued by Theon. He has the most dramatic character arc of anyone, and I've never understood why since he seems to be a minor player. But now he's basically the only real link between Daenerys and Jon. Something tells me he'll have a critical role to play between them in the future.

Tyrion spent time with Jon on the trip up to the Wall and at the Wall for awhile.  They seem to have developed a rapport, to the extent that Tyrion was inspired to design a saddle that would permit Bran to ride a horse.  

[huahaha]

Just now, Alapaki said:

Tyrion spent time with Jon on the trip up to the Wall and at the Wall for awhile.  They seem to have developed a rapport, to the extent that Tyrion was inspired to design a saddle that would permit Bran to ride a horse.  

Fair point, though I still think Theon must be due for a critical dramatic purpose between the two houses. Supportive little brother doesn't justify his story line.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Something just occurred to me about Cersei's ascension to the IT and Littlefinger.

Littlefinger promised Cersei Sansa's head and obtained her permission to take the Knights of the Vale north to flush out the Boltons in exchange for Wardenship of the North. Littlefinger probably figured--not unreasonably--that Cersei would blunder into losing whatever power she had, so there was no harm in promising her Sansa Stark's head when she would never be in a position to collect. Littlefinger informs Sansa in 6x10 that news of the BOTB will spread quickly through the seven kingdoms, i.e. the news that the Knights of the Vale, led by Littlefinger and Sansa Stark, helped the Stark forces crush the Boltons. He also informs her that he has declared for the Starks, news that will also presumably spread quickly.

None of this would be a problem if Cersei was in the downcast state she was in up until 6x10. However, now Cersei sits the Iron Throne and will find out that Littlefinger betrayed her and that Sansa is still alive. I don't know how much she can do about it if LF and Sansa stay North, where Cersei can't really reach them. However, if Cersei is as vicious and dangerous as D&D are suggesting, Littlefinger may have already made a fatal miscalculation, which appears to be the same miscalculation everyone who's gone up against Cersei and lost has made: underestimating her.

If Cersei wanted to get back at Littlefinger, all she'd have to do was let Sansa and Jon know that he'd screwed over Ned in KL.  So...she probably won't do anything like that, since it would abort the plot.

[bluvelvet]

I keep forgetting that little nugget of information (LF betraying Ned ).. that's definitely going to come into play at some point.  I do hope in the end that it's Sansa that kills LF. 

Also just realized that Tyrion and Jaime may have a reunion next season since he's heading back to KL. 

[Constantinople]

36 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

Also just realized that Tyrion and Jaime may have a reunion next season since he's heading back to KL

They can blame each other for not taking care of the wildfire when they had a chance to do something about it.

[Edith]

About Team Dany

What happens when Tyrion finds out of the death of Myrcella? Or does he already knows and doesn't care? In the books I don't think there would be a Dany-Martell alliance, there's Quentyn and the whole Arienne-Aegon 

What about Olenna? She framed Tyrion (and Sansa) for Joffrey's murder.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

They can blame each other for not taking care of the wildfire when they had a chance to do something about it.

The retcon that Tyrion knew about the wildfire caches is kind of ill-thought-out.  When did he hear about that, and why didn't he do anything about it?  He's a smart guy, I'm pretty sure he would have acted on it.

22 minutes ago, Edith said:

What happens when Tyrion finds out of the death of Myrcella? Or does he already knows and doesn't care? In the books I don't think there would be a Dany-Martell alliance, there's Quentyn and the whole Arienne-Aegon 

What about Olenna? She framed Tyrion (and Sansa) for Joffrey's murder.

Considering Tyrion knew about Stannis' defeat at Winterfell, and Varys visited the Seven Kingdoms and spoke with Olenna, pretty clearly he does know about Myrcella's death.  You're right that it feels like the writers should address that when they're in scenes together.

Tyrion doesn't know Olenna was the assassin (in the show, it doesn't seem like Tyrion was deliberately framed; in the books, the Tyrells didn't frame Tyrion, just Sansa; Littlefinger was the one who did that), so that's not an issue for the time being, though if/when Tyrion meets Sansa she'd probably fill him in on all that.

[Umbelina]

How is that Ret Con?  Tyrion used wildfire to burn the ships in the battle.  He was removed as Hand soon after, so wouldn't have had much of a chance to go find the rest of it. 

[Oscirus]

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The retcon that Tyrion knew about the wildfire caches is kind of ill-thought-out.  When did he hear about that, and why didn't he do anything about it?  He's a smart guy, I'm pretty sure he would have acted on it.

Especially when he could've used that stuff at blackwater.

As for Jon and Tyrion, let's not forget that it was Tyrion who influenced Jon's future relationship with the night watch men by insisting he get off his high horse and start teaching them.

I also think at some point that Dany and Tyrion will get separated and Tyrion gets into trouble.  Hopefully some trouble that can only be solved by dragon riding.

[SeanC]

11 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

How is that Ret Con?  Tyrion used wildfire to burn the ships in the battle.  He was removed as Hand soon after, so wouldn't have had much of a chance to go find the rest of it. 

Because Tyrion never knew about the Mad King's caches.  He used new wildfire manufactured by the Alchemists' Guild (some of which they reported as having discovered elsewhere).

It's a plot point that the only living person who knew about Aerys' plot was Jaime, because he slew Aerys, Lord Rossart, and the other two pyromancers who knew about it.  The other members of the guild, including Hallyne, the guy Tyrion dealt with, knew nothing.

It wouldn't matter if Tyrion was Hand or not.  Tywin would have removed them as well, had he known, and Tyrion would have made that a priority afterward, seeing as they were all sitting on a giant bomb.

Edited June 28, 2016 by SeanC

[paigow]

23 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

As much as I hate the idea, I think she will continue working on her list and head to King's Landing for Cersei & the Mountain. 

Unless Arya gets Bilbo's ring, she cannot defeat the Mountain by herself. 

[Athena]

14 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

I didn't read the books, did they ever discuss if there was a Warden of the North during his reign or did the North obey because you know *dragons*

Found in extra books: Torrhen Stark who was KITN at the time called his banners to meet Aegon I. Aegon stopped going South and called his banners and those who had already surrendered/conquered (Storm's End, Riverlands, and many others) to meet the Northern forces. When the KITN arrived, he was met with three dragons and an army of 45,000 (he only had about 30K), he decided to surrender because he knew the destruction of Field of Fire where the three dragons decimated the Lannister and Gardener armies. Thousands of men would die so he discussed terms of surrender and literally became "The King Who Knelt".

4 hours ago, benteen said:

Tyrion knows about the Dorne alliance but I hope he avenges Myrcella by killing Ellaria eventually.  He sent Mrycella to Dorne under the protection of House Martell and Ellaria destroyed that.

I'm hoping for this as well mostly because I can't stand Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. Tyrion is not an idiot; he knows Dorne needs to be on their side and he's not going to jeopardize his Queen's alliance. However, that does not prevent him from personal vengeance. He'd find an alternative Dorne heir for them to put in place.

[Constantinople]

31 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

How is that Ret Con?  Tyrion used wildfire to burn the ships in the battle.  He was removed as Hand soon after, so wouldn't have had much of a chance to go find the rest of it. 

He was acting Hand when Stannis was expected to attack Kings Landing.  You'd think he'd want to do something to minimize the chances of the city accidental blowing-up when Stannis attacked (that was, after all, his rationale, for taking over supervision of wildfire production from Cersei).

Even if he didn't have time for that while acting Hand, afterwards he was still on the Small Council for much of the time, as well as being the uncle of the King and son of the Hand.  He could have said something.  You'd think he -- and Jaime for that matter -- would want to make the Sept of Baelor as safe as possible for the Joffrey-Margaery wedding ceremony given how hated Joffrey and the Lannisters are.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Constantinople
P.S. Edmure still blows