S12.E04: Week 3, Part 2

[greyhorse]

22 minutes ago, terminalpreppy said:

So stupid. Sheesh. And Jo Jo - what a BITCH!!! Even if she does not like Chad, the way she said "i am going to say goodbye here" or words to that effect...gets up and turns her back on him and walls off! BITCH! how classless and totally lacking manners. I lost all respect for her then and there.

...

on another note" boring Jared is going back to paradise, (no idea why as he is as exciting as reading a phone book) as is chad, (yay!!) they arrived there on the 8th june to start filming......

 

17 minutes ago, violetr said:

Yeah, no. She rightly lost all respect for him when she discovered how violent and psychopathic he was. He deserves zero respect. She owed him nothing. 

Agreed.  He was a total psychopath and she was disgusted at his responses to her questions.  I thought it was awesome that she just got up and walked away without even giving him a pretend hug or peck on the cheek.  Then Chad was left wondering "Is this really happening?"  All sorts of reality goodness.  Not as awesome as when "I'll guard and protect your heart" Casey was left helplessly standing in the snow as the helicopter took off, but still pretty awesome.

No surprise that Chad gets to Paradise.  Paradise is all about physical attraction and hooking up.  I'm sure there will be some willing takers for a romp in the hay with the understanding that it's just casual fun.

[JenE4]

22 minutes ago, terminalpreppy said:

Yes!!! I mean how absolutely ridiculous. Firstly, the hotel is in the woods, so why did they need to get a helicopter...anywhere?

Then after said pointless helicopter ride, which one would assume took them at least a few miles, dropped them somewhere boring, then just left Chad there to make his own way to...wherever? How ludicrous. 

This is a staple of this show! It wouldn't be a 2:1 if the chosen one and the bachelor/ette didn't take off in a chopper, leaving the rejected one "alone to die" in a remote location. Chad just rewrote (improved!) the script by returning to the house, likely to retrieve his suitcase full of protein powder and health supplements, since the driver only retrieved one suitcase. 

3 hours ago, violetr said:

Not this woman! Violent, veiny, dead-eyed misogynist has never been my cup of tea. I find him completely disgusting. 

Normally I would completely agree with you. If I rationally look at Chad, there is NOTHING redeeming about him, and I have NEVER been drawn to the "bad boy" or super muscular type. But despite all of my normal good judgment, there is just something about him that I'm drawn to. He gets this intense look when his eyes crinkle, and I swoon. And, yes, realistically this is not the kind of guy I would ever date IRL (if I were single and younger). And if you did, it would end up being the definitive tumultuous, dysfunctional relationship from which, after mending your shattered heart, you'd completely grow as a person, realize what you deserve in a relationship, and end up marrying Mr. Right. Or, you know, immediately recognize that would be the ultimate outcome, save yourself the hassle, and have the one night of a lifetime that if you ever find yourself in a Sex Talk improv show, you'd have a hell of a story to tell!

[chocolatine]

21 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Or, you know, immediately recognize that would be the ultimate outcome, save yourself the hassle, and have the one night of a lifetime that if you ever find yourself in a Sex Talk improv show, you'd have a hell of a story to tell!

 

18 minutes ago, terminalpreppy said:

He would be great in the sack, to be sure.

How do you guys figure? 1. he's taking steroids, and we all know how that affects sexual performance, and 2. his behavior and PUA rhetoric are strong indicators that he's not a generous lover. It would be all about his pleasure, not yours.

Edited June 9, 2016 by chocolatine

[PetuniaP]

Quote

If I rationally look at Chad, there is NOTHING redeeming about him, and I have NEVER been drawn to the "bad boy" or super muscular type. But despite all of my normal good judgment, there is just something about him that I'm drawn to.

I think a non-roided up Chad would be incredibly hard to resist for many (I said many, not all) women....even those who don't go for that "type". He's problematic in many ways and I think this show and the positive reaction he's getting will only make him worse. But there is a vulnerability about him that's attractive, not to mention that he's incredibly good-looking. And as non-PC as it is to admit, there is still something about an alpha male that appeals, even though aspects of it repel as well. Jojo was ready to make tons of excuses for Chad, right up until continuing to do so would have made her look insane (and he threatened her one true love, Jordan).

I would have liked to see an alternate version of this season where the guys didn't make riling Chad up their full-time occupation and left him alone, just to see how far he would have gone. Also, I chuckle at this idea people seem to have that Chad walked all the way back to the house. There's no way production flew them several miles out in a helicopter and then he's just supposed to find his way back in unfamiliar terrain with no map, compass or any other means of orientation at night. No, it's obvious they shot footage of him walking a few feet through the woods for their storyline and then drove him right back to the house to create more drama. Which also puts lie to the idea that he's truly "dangerous". If he was a liability in any way, production wouldn't have let him near that house again. 

Ultimately, this is what makes me incredibly happy about Chad:

http://www.derekpeth.com

http://www.robbyhayes.com

http://www.chasemcnary.com

http://www.alexwoytkiw.com

Quote

Chad reminds me of a younger, but buffed up, George Michael.

OMG, this makes total sense! I had a poster of George Michael up in my teenage bedroom...loved him :)

Edited June 9, 2016 by PetuniaP

[JenE4]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

 

How do you guys figure? 1. he's taking steroids, and we all know how that affects sexual performance, and 2. his behavior and PUA rhetoric are strong indicators that he's not a generous lover. It would be all about his pleasure, not yours.

Well, if Evan's The More You Know lesson was accurate, then the story you'd have to tell at a potential Sex Talk improv show might be even better. :-D

[Ohwell]

Chad reminds me of a younger, but buffed up, George Michael.

[chocolatine]

28 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Well, if Evan's The More You Know lesson was accurate, then the story you'd have to tell at a potential Sex Talk improv show might be even better. :-D

It would elicit more laughs, for sure. :)

[Soobs]

Too bad The Soup isn't on any longer. They would have had a lot of fun with Chad and especially this episode.

[call me ishmael]

2 hours ago, terminalpreppy said:

Each to their own, but i disagree. There was no need for JoJo to stoop to his level of manners. She only made herself look ill mannered, in my opinion. He was never rude to her. We only saw manufactured bs.

http://www.people.com/article/bachelor-paradise-cast-revealed?linkId=25355461

Unless i missed something she didn't threaten him because he said something she didn't like so i don't see how she stooped to his level of manners.  No one manufactures the fact that he thinks threatening to hit someone is an acceptable way to solve the situation.  And i think the idea that he was just reacting to other people is wrong.  They all took a dislike to him after he started to interrupt everyone else's conversations.  I've never heard of that sort of consistent effort to disrupt.  If you sign up for a game you agree to the rules.  Chad doesn't think he should be held accountable in any way.  She just finally gave up on him.  Should have happened earlier.  I just assume the producers insisted she keep him.

[wovenloaf]

2 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Normally I would completely agree with you. If I rationally look at Chad, there is NOTHING redeeming about him, and I have NEVER been drawn to the "bad boy" or super muscular type. But despite all of my normal good judgment, there is just something about him that I'm drawn to. He gets this intense look when his eyes crinkle, and I swoon. 

 

1 hour ago, PetuniaP said:

I think a non-roided up Chad would be incredibly hard to resist for many (I said many, not all) women....even those who don't go for that "type". He's problematic in many ways and I think this show and the positive reaction he's getting will only make him worse. But there is a vulnerability about him that's attractive, not to mention that he's incredibly good-looking. And as non-PC as it is to admit, there is still something about an alpha male that appeals, even though aspects of it repel as well.

Yeah, he's a sneaky thing. In the very beginning of this season, I thought I was going to hate Chad, and while I found him basically attractive I wasn't particularly struck by him. By episode 2 I thought he was hilarious, he was my favorite thing about the show, and I was coming around to the idea that he is, in fact, put together real well. Fast forward to this week - I'm spending an embarrassing amount of time googling his fine ass on the internet and mentally chastising myself for not being a little more of a "fit, beautiful" Oklahoman. (I've never even been to Oklahoma). At this point, the more the show tries to convince me what a kooked out disaster-mess Chadster is, the firmer of a grip I want on his arms. I need help, y'all.

[Wings]

6 hours ago, greyhorse said:

I think it's a bit hard to say that collectively this cast is a dud.  Too each their own, right?  I have always wondered if the Bachelor/ette gets to give approval of who gets to be on the show.  So maybe this is JoJo's type.  I wouldn't call them ugly by any means.  Chad's face (and perhaps body for some) may be physically attractive, but his personality is completely ugly.  I'd say the only one who doesn't make the stereotypical Bachelorette "bar" of attractiveness/swipe rightness would be rat faced scrawny Evan.

Re bold,  NO.  :^)

I am with Aadeejay here.  This is not a good looking bunch, for me.  Wells is #1 in both looks and vibe.  Jordan is good looking despite the hair (they all have that do) but he looks a little like Shawn and Alf.  Robbie is okay.  

Alex has a nice face but is waaaaay too short and he is aggressive which is not uncommon in short men.  Not all but I have seen it too many times.  Christian is handsome.  That is it.  

I really liked James Super Fan who left a week or so back.  He was cute. 

[Meraji]

2 hours ago, PetuniaP said:

I would have liked to see an alternate version of this season where the guys didn't make riling Chad up their full-time occupation and left him alone, just to see how far he would have gone.

I would've liked to see an alternate version in which JoJo took Chad on the swing dance date. Would he still have been ornery in that one-on-one date? I would have loved to see how he would have reacted and whether he could be fun. JoJo still could've chosen to not give him the rose at the end and left him high and dry on the cliff at night! But the hiking date was boring especially at that time of year.

[Arienne]

OMG!  am going to hell wearing gasoline panties! I should not have these thoughts about Chad, I know better.

[OnceSane]

Please keep the Bachelor in Paradise spoilers under spoiler tags or take the discussion to the appropriate thread in the BiP forum.  Thank you. 

[OnceSane]

1 hour ago, terminalpreppy said:

apologies! i assumed it was common knowledge who is going to bip as its all over the internet, they officially announced two days ago

Sorry, I thought only Reality Steve had released names.  That being said, it doesn't belong in this thread as this one is for discussing the most recent episode.

[Fable]

I see a little bit of a love story between Chad and Alex:  

Chad:  "I'm not happy with you."  

Alex:  "What!"  

Chad:   "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed."  

Me:   Awww...tell me these two aren't in love!   

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Fable

[backformore]

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

 

How do you guys figure? 1. he's taking steroids, and we all know how that affects sexual performance, and 2. his behavior and PUA rhetoric are strong indicators that he's not a generous lover. It would be all about his pleasure, not yours.

Well, SOME guys get big muscles without steroids, so it is possible.  And - performance enhancing steroids doesn't mean just taking prednisone pills, it means daily injections with a needle .   I'm thinking that the show might not let someone stay at the mansion with a medical bag full of illegal drugs and syringes.

[Mu Shu]

It's normal to beat people up if they won't shut up.   If I had to put up with bitchy ass roommates (in stretch pants, FFS!)  I would want to beat their asses too   Or not shower for three days to spite them.  

 

I I don't find Chad attractive at all.   He is ridiculous and funny though . 

[Falafel]

Well, put me down for someone who is sad to see Chad leave. I knew that Alex was getting the rose, but is the show really going to be about JoJo "falling" in "love" with these guys now? Ugh, I can't even bear the thought.

The thing is, I know that Chad is a jerk, but I still rooted for him. Why? Well, two main reasons:

1. All the others guy suck. Chad's big nemesis for much of the two episodes was Evan, and while Evan may not be the worst guy in the house, he's pretty creepy and lame. "Daddy got a kiss from JoJo!" That's really what you want to tell your children, weirdo? And sorry, the "story" (not a story) he told at the sex stories show was incredibly rude and shitty. So when Chad wanted to kick his ass, I can't say I blamed him. Up to that point, the worst thing Chad actually did to him was interrupt his time with JoJo, which hello, is normal on this show. Also, Evan, just because you cried when Chad interrupted your time with JoJo doesn't mean it was that serious. Alex is even worse -- dude was obsessed with Chad and all I really know about Alex is that he is short and he hates Chad. Oh, and Alex thinks a rose signifies that you are the best bachelor in America, which is why Chad doesn't deserve one: LOL, loser.
2. Chad continued to make very reasonable points! You guys don't know her. You shouldn't be in love with her. Going on a date with one woman and 12 dudes is weird. And yeah, maybe you shouldn't tell sex stories to strangers. The guys may not like Chad, but they should probably just have left him alone. Like, I have no doubt Chad was rude and acted like he was better than everyone and no one appreciated it -- but they did go out of their way to tell him they didn't like him and they did seem to instigate, which really wasn't helpful. I recall someone asking Chad a question and he responded, and Grant inserted himself and said "Another two-word answer. That's cool." What's it to you, dude? If you don't like talking to Chad, then don't talk to Chad!

Ok, a point of concession: I could've done without Chad threatening to hunt Jordan down -- but did anyone else find that exchange very strangely and suspiciously edited? The show barely even showed Jordan say anything, and suddenly Chad flipped out and threatened to find him? It made absolutely no sense. My conspiracy theory: Jordan did say something more that pissed Chad off, but the viewers also would've been offended or off-put by it, so they edited it out, so that Jordan can continue to be End Game Fairy Tale Romance. For the record, I don't like Jordan. I don't believe in "Right Reasons" but I do think he is just on the show because he thinks he deserves to be famous, which is douchey. JoJo clearly likes him a lot, but I think he'd rather be the next Bachelor.

So, in conclusion, I think Chad probably does have issues with anger and violence and he's probably a misogynist and, who knows, maybe he's abusive. The thing is, we saw the first two but we really didn't actually see much of the latter two. And when we saw the first two, it was in response to a bunch of equally unlikable douchey idiots. So it was hard to be too down on Chad, who provided great entertainment value and for some reason fascinated me. If he had stopped threatening guys -- (he could've argued all he wanted, but he needed to stop threatening physical harm) -- I really think he could've lasted a bit longer. I think JoJo was attracted to him and intrigued by his confident, no-nonsense bad boy attitude. But he really, in the end, came off sounding like a crazy person to her, which was perfectly valid.

Now, we're stuck with the likes of Alex and Evan. Someone help us. At least Daniel, who is a fucking weirdo, should give us some creepy, awkward fodder in the future. (How good was his Trump/Hitler > Mussolini > Bush comparison though?)

Edited June 10, 2016 by Falafel

[Fable]

1 hour ago, terminalpreppy said:

So two things: has anyone ever read of a bach or ette writing a legit tell all of all the manipulation and fakery? i realise they would be under contract to not tell all, but surely that would expire? i thought i read somewhere Sharlene did something sometime?

I remember, a few years ago, one of the B-ettes talking with Reality Steve about this.  She basically said nothing that came out of her mouth translated onto the screen in the context it was said.  I just googled this, and there is a link about someone named Megan from Jason's season giving a lengthy interview with RS.  I don't visit his website anymore because his site and my computer have been at odds, but I think this is the article I am thinking of.   

[Arienne]

I have a book on my Kindle by Courtney Robertson, it was very eye opening to me. I think Bachelor Nation hates her but I found her book to be very interesting

[violetr]

Quote

And as non-PC as it is to admit, there is still something about an alpha male that appeals, even though aspects of it repel as well. 

Believe it or not I actually agree. As a staunch feminist I am somewhat embarrassed to admit it, but I am often drawn to alphas. My husband is one, but he is sweet and kind. I think Jordan is an alpha - just not a violent one. He seems cool and confident (If he's really a homophobe all bets are off, but that's a different conversation). Chad is the worst kind of alpha - misogynistic, violent, angry, and deeply insecure. Good riddance (I hope)!

[PetuniaP]

Quote

Chad is the worst kind of alpha - misogynistic, violent, angry, and deeply insecure. Good riddance (I hope)!

To Falafel's point (excellent post by the way!), have we actually seen Chad be misogynistic? We heard him be accused of it by men who seemed determined to get him out of the house under any circumstances but I can't recall a moment when I thought he expressed hatred of women. Also, I feel like his anger was justified, I'd be livid if I was getting poked at all the live long day by those guys. As for violent and deeply insecure...yeah, those are pretty spot on. 

Oh, and I'm a staunch feminist as well! But idealism can't always trump biology, I guess. 

Edited June 10, 2016 by PetuniaP

[call me ishmael]

11 hours ago, Falafel said:

Well, put me down for someone who is sad to see Chad leave. I knew that Alex was getting the rose, but is the show really going to be about JoJo "falling" in "love" with these guys now? Ugh, I can't even bear the thought.

The thing is, I know that Chad is a jerk, but I still rooted for him. Why? Well, two main reasons:

1. All the others guy suck. Chad's big nemesis for much of the two episodes was Evan, and while Evan may not be the worst guy in the house, he's pretty creepy and lame. "Daddy got a kiss from JoJo!" That's really what you want to tell your children, weirdo? And sorry, the "story" (not a story) he told at the sex stories show was incredibly rude and shitty. So when Chad wanted to kick his ass, I can't say I blamed him. Up to that point, the worst thing Chad actually did to him was interrupt his time with JoJo, which hello, is normal on this show. Also, Evan, just because you cried when Chad interrupted your time with JoJo doesn't mean it was that serious. Alex is even worse -- dude was obsessed with Chad and all I really know about Alex is that he is short and he hates Chad. Oh, and Alex thinks a rose signifies that you are the best bachelor in America, which is why Chad doesn't deserve one: LOL, loser.
2. Chad continued to make very reasonable points! You guys don't know her. You shouldn't be in love with her. Going on a date with one woman and 12 dudes is weird. And yeah, maybe you shouldn't tell sex stories to strangers. The guys may not like Chad, but they should probably just have left him alone. Like, I have no doubt Chad was rude and acted like he was better than everyone and no one appreciated it -- but they did go out of their way to tell him they didn't like him and they did seem to instigate, which really wasn't helpful. I recall someone asking Chad a question and he responded, and Grant inserted himself and said "Another two-word answer. That's cool." What's it to you, dude? If you don't like talking to Chad, then don't talk to Chad!

Ok, a point of concession: I could've done without Chad threatening to hunt Jordan down -- but did anyone else find that exchange very strangely and suspiciously edited? The show barely even showed Jordan say anything, and suddenly Chad flipped out and threatened to find him? It made absolutely no sense. My conspiracy theory: Jordan did say something more that pissed Chad off, but the viewers also would've been offended or off-put by it, so they edited it out, so that Jordan can continue to be End Game Fairy Tale Romance. For the record, I don't like Jordan. I don't believe in "Right Reasons" but I do think he is just on the show because he thinks he deserves to be famous, which is douchey. JoJo clearly likes him a lot, but I think he'd rather be the next Bachelor.

So, in conclusion, I think Chad probably does have issues with anger and violence and he's probably a misogynist and, who knows, maybe he's abusive. The thing is, we saw the first two but we really didn't actually see much of the latter two. And when we saw the first two, it was in response to a bunch of equally unlikable douchey idiots. So it was hard to be too down on Chad, who provided great entertainment value and for some reason fascinated me. If he had stopped threatening guys -- (he could've argued all he wanted, but he needed to stop threatening physical harm) -- I really think he could've lasted a bit longer. I think JoJo was attracted to him and intrigued by his confident, no-nonsense bad boy attitude. But he really, in the end, came off sounding like a crazy person to her, which was perfectly valid.

Now, we're stuck with the likes of Alex and Evan. Someone help us. At least Daniel, who is acking weirdo, should give us some creepy, awkward fodder in the future. (How good was his Trump/Hitler > Mussolini > Bush comparison though?)

Okay I guess we just have to agree to disagree but I don't see any of this--especially Chad as a victim.  Here is my read:

First: He came on a show.  it is a genre and there are genre conventions.  Nothing is "real" about it and nothing is "normal" in terms of dating so his claiming that he was just being "real" strikes me as completely fake.  He came in with a particular strategy and it didn't work and he didn't know how to change.

Second, I think that part of his strategy was assuming that he could achieve dominance over the other men and win Jojo's "heart" (admitted concession here: I don't know if he was on the show to get on BIP or help his career in some other way so maybe he didn't care to be there at the end).  But it didn't work exactly the way that he wanted--because all of the other guys instead of shutting up and letting him rule the roost kept talking back at him even if that meant he got plenty of their time.  At that point since he was not all that good at conversing when he wasn't in control he seemed to have nothing left but threatening to hit them.  His comment to JoJo that he only threatened them when they didn't stop talking at him tells it all.

I'm sure it is all edited.  But I especially suspect the talking heads are edited and although he had some good one liners he never produced anything beyond a one-liner.  

The thing that was so different about this season is that everyone was complaining about him and they complained to JoJo.  Normally they don't start complaining this quickly and then it is usually one sacrificial lamb who goes and they get dismissed because the lead has some connection with the villain.  But he overplayed his hand early and since he thought he was better than everyone else didn't realize that he had to recover and actually play the game.  If you throw in his tendency to threaten violence (and I wouldn't have wanted to be that door) she did the right thing in getting rid of him.

[violetr]

Quote

To Falafel's point (excellent post by the way!), have we actually seen Chad be misogynistic?

The obvious example was when he told JoJo she was starting to sound naggy simply because she wanted a compliment. It's that whole PUA POV of thinking that you have to put a woman down and make her feel bad about herself in order to gain any real traction with her (i.e., get her into bed). This is essentially misogyny personified. 

[PetuniaP]

Quote

The obvious example was when he told JoJo she was starting to sound naggy simply because she wanted a compliment. It's that whole PUA POV of thinking that you have to put a woman down and make her feel bad about herself in order to gain any real traction with her (i.e., get her into bed). This is essentially misogyny personified. 

I don't think I'd stretch calling someone "naggy" to meaning that he is a misogynist. That's an extremely low bar. At worst, I'd call it being a poor sport, as they were all fake proposing to Jojo without anything to back it up. And also, at that point, he'd seen the woman for only a handful of hours and spoken to her for maybe 10-15 minutes...he didn't know her at all, didn't feel like he had anything of consequence to say about her and he's not the type to "play along". Which likely makes him no fun to be around unless you are doing what he wants to do but that's the only personality trait I picked up during that scene. 

Edited June 10, 2016 by PetuniaP

[violetr]

Quote

I don't think I'd stretch calling someone "naggy" to meaning that he is a misogynist. That's an extremely low bar. 

Not to me, but fair point that we all define these things differently. 

[Falafel]

2 hours ago, PetuniaP said:

To Falafel's point (excellent post by the way!), have we actually seen Chad be misogynistic? We heard him be accused of it by men who seemed determined to get him out of the house under any circumstances but I can't recall a moment when I thought he expressed hatred of women. Also, I feel like his anger was justified, I'd be livid if I was getting poked at all the live long day by those guys. As for violent and deeply insecure...yeah, those are pretty spot on. 

Thanks! The only example that comes to mind is when he called JoJo "naggy" which I do think is sort of an inherently sexist phrase -- (why can't men ever be naggy? Why is a woman naggy when she is assertive, but a man is just simply assertive?) But I don't think someone is a sexist just because they use the word. And Chad, as much as the guys were outraged, was very clearly making a joke. I think you could also potentially try to read into his comments that JoJo "needs a real man" as something, but really, in the end, he didn't say anything to prove the allegations of misogyny. I'm sure he could be, or maybe he isn't, but if he really presented himself as a misogynist, I wouldn't have been able to get on his side.

[ribboninthesky1]

On 6/8/2016 at 11:39 PM, Alapaki said:

These guys seem largely forgettable, and largely interchangeable.  

JoJo doesn't strike me as the type who plans on being a Bachelor Nation lifer like Sean and Catherine.

Under those circumstances, why not pick the guy who at least will give you entree to some borderline-interesting celebrities for the short-term you're together?

I don't follow football, but I thought someone, on an earlier thread, mentioned that Jordan and his brother weren't close.  Plus, he signed up for this show. I certainly had no idea who he was prior to the show, so I'm skeptical about any connections he may have - especially any that wouldn't be open to JoJo herself upon having her own season.    

On a separate note: regarding Chad - I don't have strong feelings for him either way.  He's funny.  Yet, for all of his truth bombs, I don't think he's ever been all that interested in JoJo, at least not beyond one-upping the other men.  It's easy to pontificate when you're not personally invested (or trying to be).  Even if he were "normal," I have my doubts on how long he would have lasted. Nevertheless, he's worked his camera time on the show brilliantly.  Polarizing as he is, the "no such thing as bad publicity" mantra seems to apply to him.

[Madding crowd]

Chad doesn't get points from me for going on a show that requires group dates and silly games, then complaining he won't do those things. Whatever his reason for going on the show, he had to know what is expected. We love to snark on the goofy group dates, but we wouldn't go on the show and expect to be exempt from everything. That's the main reason the guys don't like him; he implies they are beneath him for being  good sports about things like sex talks. Most of them don't want to do the stuff either and all of them would prefer a one on one date.

 

I can't say for sure he is sexist or hates women, but he generally talks like JoJo is an object more than a person.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Madding crowd

[violetr]

I just read Sharleen Joynt's Flare recap for this ep and I LOVED what she had to say about Derek vs. Chad:

Quote

Derek really won me over last night in his confrontation with Chad. Hot-headed, meat-headed Chad barreled towards Derek full of accusations and insults, but Derek smacked him down SO HARD by being calm, articulate, and not at all defensive. Seriously, he talked eloquent circles around Chad. It was my kind of hot. (Some girls like abs and arms. I like words. What can I say?) I have a small crush on Derek. Who, for the record, ALSO HAS ABS AND ARMS.

Although I'm not particularly into Derek, I agree that a man who's calm, confident and articulate is way hotter than some roided out muscle douche. 

Edited June 10, 2016 by violetr

[Canada]

Sharleen likes someone who is articulate and eloquent, yet she was all over Juan Pablo???

[JenE4]

21 hours ago, terminalpreppy said:

 

Speaking of "googling his fine ass"....i just cannot get past this pic long enough to make myself breakfast this morning. Sweet baby jesus.

You're welcome. :)

Yes, THANK YOU, Terminalpreppy!

If occasionally being called "naggy" is his worst potential relationship pitfall, um, LOOK AT THIS MAN! That wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me! I mean, okay, okay, he had other major red flags with threatening to track down and beat half the guys in the house, but "naggy" seems like grasping at straws for a misogyny label. He seemed more intent on putting down other men for not being manly enough rather than insulting JoJo, so I don't know what that label is...misandrist (thanks, Google). I admit that I would be more willing to buy a potential abuser label and, sure, that's worse than a misogynist. But there haven't been any exes coming out of the woodwork on Chad, right? Wouldn't be fair to throw ANY of these labels on him unless there's some history of such behavior. 

But, really, none of us who think Chad is hot thinks that JoJo should choose let alone marry the guy, but keep him around a few more weeks and have some fun, girl! Why are you kissing these average (and below average, looking at you, Evan) Joes when you could be making out with Chad for a few more weeks? Actually, it would be the feminist thing to do! The Bachelorette always sends home the "not here to make friends" guys out of fear of upsetting the other guys. However, the Bachelors will keep--and even choose--the "not here to make friends" girls (Courtney, Vienna, etc.) Why do the women always have to concede on their wants just to please the other men in the house?! JoJo, it's a step for feminism to take Chad to the Fantasy Suite! It's your civic duty to the womanhood of Bachelor Nation to get it on with whomever you well please, and not resort to kissing the likes of Evan just because you think you owe it to him because of the show. THAT's the real misogyny of this show. [mic drop] Gotta go float down random rivers in and around Tulsa, OK, for a chance of seeing that hot piece of ass in person.

[deSchenke]

6 minutes ago, Canada said:

Sharleen likes someone who is articulate and eloquent, yet she was all over Juan Pablo???

My recollection was that Sharleen asked to leave.

[violetr]

Quote

Sharleen likes someone who is articulate and eloquent, yet she was all over Juan Pablo???

She was SO not into Juan Pablo! She thought he was sexy and liked making out with him, but she LEFT THE SHOW because she found him impossible to even have a conversation with. 

[Falafel]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

Chad doesn't get points from me for going on a show that requires group dates and silly games, then complaining he won't do those things. Whatever his reason for going on the show, he had to know what is expected. We love to snark on the goofy group dates, but we wouldn't go on the show and expect to be exempt from everything. That's the main reason the guys don't like him; he implies they are beneath him for being  good sports about things like sex talks. Most of them don't want to do the stuff either and all of them would prefer a one on one date.

I can't say for sure he is sexist or hates women, but he generally talks like JoJo is an object more than a person.

I actually thought the exact opposite. I thought he actually seemed to act like the show wasn't just a game or a contest and JoJo was a real person he needed to get to know. He did intentionally do things to get a rise out of the guys, like going back for extra one-on-one time, but I never got the sense he didn't view JoJo as a real person. He was delusional for thinking he could just kiss her whenever he wanted, but this show sets up weird standards in that regard anyway.

And I agree that the group dates are what he signed up for, but Chad didn't actually refuse to do any of the stuff he was asked to do. He merely voiced the idea that he wanted to go on a one-on-one date instead. For the guys to get so offended by that comment reminded me of the bizarre reaction everyone had to Jubilee last season: *Gasp*, she suggested she was nervous about the date and joked she didn't want to go? How deeply offensive! People on this show just get outraged about dumb things and I didn't think Chad's comment about not wanting to go on a 12-on-1 was a big deal. Meh.

[kingshearte]

Calling someone naggy might not be the most misogynistic thing ever, but it did come during the first date, and if that's where you go that early, when you're theoretically in best-behaviour wooing mode... It's iffy, for sure. And maybe he was just trying to joke, but it did come across as a little PUA negging to me. Then there's, as someone else pointed out, his repeated assertions that JoJo needs a "real man." That might come across as being more down on the other men than on women, but what is he being down on them for? Not being "manly" enough, i.e., being too womanish. And men with that sort of attitude are not usually the ones with particularly strong feminist leanings. Add to all that his tendency toward violence? I'm beyond out.

[huahaha]

2 hours ago, terminalpreppy said:

But there ain't no mistaking the Chad.

I was very disappointed that JoJo and Chad's last conversation didn't go like this:

CHAD: Was it The Chad?

JOJO: It might have been The Chad.

Edited June 11, 2016 by huahaha

[NorthstarATL]

2 hours ago, kingshearte said:

Calling someone naggy might not be the most misogynistic thing ever, but it did come during the first date, and if that's where you go that early, when you're theoretically in best-behaviour wooing mode... It's iffy, for sure. And maybe he was just trying to joke, but it did come across as a little PUA negging to me. Then there's, as someone else pointed out, his repeated assertions that JoJo needs a "real man." That might come across as being more down on the other men than on women, but what is he being down on them for? Not being "manly" enough, i.e., being too womanish. And men with that sort of attitude are not usually the ones with particularly strong feminist leanings. Add to all that his tendency toward violence? I'm beyond out.

One can just as easily (and probably more correctly, based upon other utterances) assume that not "manly" enough is being too "boy" or "childlike". Chad presents his cartoon character as both "real" (no filters) and manly (mature, settled, ready for marriage, or, if you prefer, masculine), BUT in order to stay IN character he should have fessed up right away to his behavior with the fratboys, and explained himself to Jo. I don't think he cares one way or another, and it would be cruel to not let her have her show back and continue her journey to Jordanville.

 Alex came across as every little tattler ever. He's adorable, but he let the Chad get under his skin and he stayed there.

Daniel is weird, and now that he's no longer Chad's sidekick, Jo needs to set him  free.

Edited June 11, 2016 by NorthstarATL
Key word left out.

[PetuniaP]

I fully expect Daniel to be shown the door now that Chad is out. About Derek, he's very good-looking, right up my usual alley, but he leaves me cold. Maybe Chad was blinding my view and now some of the other men's charms might delight me.  Probably not but a girl can dream!

 

JenE4, great point about how Bachelors respond to the "she's got to go!" cries from the women vs. how the Bachelorettes respond to the men. Women are much more socialized to please men than the other way around. I also think that Chad isn't at all used to fighting for a woman's attention....he's probably barely crooked a finger in years. Chad is the kind of man women throw themselves at. I think his incredulity when Evan got the rose over him was very real, he couldn't fathom it. He just assumed Jojo preferred him over all the others because, well...that's what women usually do. I don't think he even realized that she wasn't under his usual spell until very late into their last conversation. I also think that's why he came across as almost charmless with her, he usually gets away with far worse behavior. But he seemed devoted to his mother and still is to his sister so I think he has potential.

Edited June 11, 2016 by PetuniaP

[GinnyMars]

14 hours ago, JenE4 said:

I admit that I would be more willing to buy a potential abuser label and, sure, that's worse than a misogynist. But there haven't been any exes coming out of the woodwork on Chad, right? Wouldn't be fair to throw ANY of these labels on him unless there's some history of such behavior. 

If I had a violent, stalker-y ex, I'm not sure I'd come forward... His exes's silence is in no way a point in his favor.

(Actually, one could remark that none of his exes have come forward to defend him either... No one has, for that matter; not an ex, not a friend, not a coworker. Not even his sister as far as I know. We could draw conclusions from that silence instead...)

Edited June 11, 2016 by GinnyMars

[deSchenke]

I think this season would be dull as dishwater without Chad.  I don't like him and I don't like the Chad Show.  He's easy on the eyes, but his personality, other than a few nuggets of wit, makes me want him off my screen.

But then what will we be left with?

Usually, I watch the show and have some sense of the guys' personalities by now.  As it is, I only know of Chad's personality and how the others react to Chad.  They are milking his exit for yet another episode from all appearances in previews.  I guess there was an obvious frontrunner and the producers didn't know how to make any suspense out of it and came up with this drivel.

I have no idea why JoJo is keeping Alex, Evan, or Daniel.  I am certain the only reason Evan was cast for this season was because of his job description!

[wovenloaf]

5 hours ago, GinnyMars said:

(Actually, one could remark that none of his exes have come forward to defend him either... No one has, for that matter; not an ex, not a friend, not a coworker. Not even his sister as far as I know. We could draw conclusions from that silence instead...)

She does on her Instagram. She seems quite fond of him, before and since the show. They also work together at the same realty company. 

[GinnyMars]

Oh. Well, I stand corrected, thanks wovenloaf. Do you have a link? I'm curious to see what she says as I personally have trouble understanding how any woman can like him...

(so he really is a realtor then? I thought he presented himself as an "investor" on his insta.)

Edited June 11, 2016 by GinnyMars

[wovenloaf]

50 minutes ago, GinnyMars said:

Oh. Well, I stand corrected, thanks wovenloaf. Do you have a link? I'm curious to see what she says as I personally have trouble understanding how any woman can like him...

(so he really is a realtor then? I though he presented himself as an "investor" on his insta.)

Here's the link: https://www.instagram.com/tiffjohnson24 She responds to people's comments about him in a few places on the more recent pictures (mostly just to the effect that he's not terrible and that he's hilarious, and IIRC she describes him as "one of my favorite people" at one point). Then there are some older pictures of them, incl a couple about him working with her (yeah, seems he is actually a realtor). 

Edited June 11, 2016 by wovenloaf
grammar

[Ohwell]

20 hours ago, terminalpreppy said:

Ergh, Sharleen. I thought she was a pompous pseudo-intellectual.

Exactly.  She sang opera so she thought she was all that and a bag of chips.  So did Juan Pablo, at least in the beginning.  I was glad when she took her ass off the show.  

I can't wait to see Evan and Alex finally get the heave-ho.  I expect tears from Evan.

[PetuniaP]

Quote

 I expect tears from Evan.

I hope to god Evan cries like the little bitch that he is. 

[Mu Shu]

I hope Evan goes to BIP, and like ugly Jacyln and sad sack Amber, no one wants to hook up with him.   How can this man have three children at home and think going on TB is a viable choice?    What woman with half a brain would want a man who puts fame whoring over his kids?   Fuck him.   Stupid ass.   God this pencil necked geek infuriates me.   He looks like someone who should be on Tiny House Hunters blathering about plant based diets and composting toilets.  

[seasick]

On 6/11/2016 at 10:42 AM, deSchenke said:

I think this season would be dull as dishwater without Chad.  I don't like him and I don't like the Chad Show.  He's easy on the eyes, but his personality, other than a few nuggets of wit, makes me want him off my screen.

But then what will we be left with?

Usually, I watch the show and have some sense of the guys' personalities by now.  As it is, I only know of Chad's personality and how the others react to Chad.  They are milking his exit for yet another episode from all appearances in previews.  I guess there was an obvious frontrunner and the producers didn't know how to make any suspense out of it and came up with this drivel.

I have no idea why JoJo is keeping Alex, Evan, or Daniel.  I am certain the only reason Evan was cast for this season was because of his job description!

 It's hard to say what the season would be like without Chad being allowed to suck all the air out of the room.  It could have given more air time to the other guys and we'd be able to tell them apart by now.   

I think there is an obvious front runner but I also think Jo is doing a decent job of appearing 'into'  the other guys.  Other than spoiler speculation i would not have known there was a front-runner except for the edits of them devouring each other like lovers kept apart.  The secret meeting at the pool party in the front of the house was the limit for me.  There's enough decent footage of Jo schmoozing the other guys to keep the suspense going if they choose to edit as such.  

If they can sit still and produce  BIP which is really the dullest, dumbest premise ever for a show, then I can't imagine them being nervous that Bach/ette might not be dramatic enough to hold an audience.  YMMV

[ribboninthesky1]

On 6/10/2016 at 7:21 PM, terminalpreppy said:

Ergh, Sharleen. I thought she was a pompous pseudo-intellectual. 

 

On 6/11/2016 at 4:03 PM, Ohwell said:

Exactly.  She sang opera so she thought she was all that and a bag of chips.  So did Juan Pablo, at least in the beginning.  I was glad when she took her ass off the show.  

I liked Sharleen well enough when she was on the show, but her blog tantrum (paraphrased: "if you don't like him, you wouldn't have liked me, either!") over some not loving Nick from Andi's season permanently turned me off.    

My sister hadn't watched the episode until today, and seeing it again made me realize a significant reason I'm not into Luke: vocal fry.  It's definitely not just a female thing!  God almighty, it was like nails on a chalkboard during his date with Andi.  Shame, too, as I typically appreciate a nice Texan drawl.    

Edited June 13, 2016 by ribboninthesky1