S06.E07: The Broken Man

[InsertWordHere]

"I wonder if you're the worst person I've ever met. At a certain age, it's hard to recall. But the truly vile do stand out through the years "

Awesome line and awesome delivery with the added bonus that it's being said by a character who has certainly seen some horrible people in her time. Olenna knew Joffrey and his vileness is part of the reason she arranged his death. She worked with Littlefinger. She's at least aware of the Mountain. She presumably knew Aerys II and probably has met Walder Frey too since they're both very old. I don't know if she's ever had occasion to meet Roose or Euron (who hasn't really been revealed on the show to be as horrible as he is in the books). She most likely has never met Ramsay and I hope for her sake it stays that way.

For her to say Cersei might be the worst person she's ever met carries some major weight, even if it's not strictly true.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Game Of Thrones Wants YOU!

Whether you're a little girl, a grandmother, a giant, or a dog (!), it's time to stand up and serve.

[FemmyV]

10 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I just wonder what her plan is. I hope it's a good one, and I hope it involves slapping the High Sparrow somehow, because GOOD LORD he's creepy in the worst way.

10 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

I wonder if she is planning on seducing the High Sparrow or put him in some compromising situation, thus exposing him as a sinner too?

Those are my thoughts. If nothing else, she's seen to what extent Tommen is confiding in him. If Marg could seduce Sparrow, though, and have it witnessed by one of the septas, that would bring his ass DOWN.

 

15 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

but hated the ending with Sansa badmouthing Davos and not confiding in Jon that if he just waits a while longer she can get the Vale army to march to WF. If she doesn't tell him about summoning LF and the Vale army before he marches to WF, I don't think I'll like this so-called "boss ass bitch" much longer. 

I'm starting to grow VERY concerned about Sansa. In all fairness, she's always been one of my least favorite characters, but I'm starting to wonder if she's heading for a "What would Cersei do?" MO.

 

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do you think Arya will run into Syrio Forel?

I'd love this! But I think it's up to Arya to get herself out of her present situation.

 

13 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Why is everyone calling Talisa a whore? Robb's mistake is he took a nice carrying person who won his heart, over a Frey girl breaking a King's promise.

The venom should be at Robb, not Talisa.

While it sure was nice of Talisa to care for injured soldiers, "nice girls" know better than to follow military camps. Talisa = Shae with a better excuse for a favorable hookup. .

[cambridgeguy]

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I don't believe Jon is going to lose persay. I think his rush to "go with the men they have" is about saving Rickon. Sansa has to play the only card she has - LF and the Vale. But this time - if the show plays it right - it won't be about LF saving Sansa. It will be Sansa saying "you owe me." LF will deliver because he's probably getting a constant stream of ravens and knows KL is a mess. I believe Jon will accept him because he has no reason not to but I don't think Sansa is going to need to over-promise to get his help.

If Sansa and Jon retake Winterfell, unite the North, and neither one of them has to promise something they don't want to in order to win that victory - I'd call that a win for the poor kids.

Are they even mentioning Rickon in their sales pitch?  No one seems to care that Jon should be seen as a Night's Watch deserter and/or a corpse reanimated through foreign magic, and anyone loyal to the Starks should be spurred into action by having the King in the North (sorry Bran) rotting in a dungeon. 

LF will deliver but he might wait for Jon's army to whittle things down a bit - it'll make things easier for the Vale forces.  By the time that's done the majority of the North's fighting men will be toast thanks to Robb's campaigns, the Red Wedding, and the upcoming fight.  They won't have the strength to stop LF from becoming Warden of the North.

[lidarose9]

Is Lady Mormont Jorah's daughter?

[Oscirus]

I think Marge just didn't have sex with Tommen because he does nothing for her. No strategy at all to it. She just gave HS that line of bull  because she knew it's what he wanted to hear.

As for the Jon and Sansa diplomacy tour, I wouldn't have minded it as much if we see them improving as they go along, maybe tell why the wildings are there in the first place or even share Ramsay's heinous deeds/plans. Hell embellish his  evilness. But nope. At least encourage Davos to speak up more since he seems to be the best at it.

I take it that when at king's landing you start writing when a meeting starts to indicate who's in charge for that particular meeting.

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, lidarose9 said:

Is Lady Mormont Jorah's daughter?

Cousin.  Her mother Maege was Jeor's brother.

[lidarose9]

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Cousin.  Her mother Maege was Jeor's brother.

You mean Jorah's sister -- which would make her his niece?

[SeanC]

Just now, lidarose9 said:

You mean Jorah's sister -- which would make her his niece?

Maege wasn't Jorah's sister, she was his aunt.

[Oscirus]

Just now, lidarose9 said:

You mean Jorah's sister -- which would make her his niece?

Nope Jeor, Jorah's father.

[Minneapple]

15 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

I'm starting to grow VERY concerned about Sansa. In all fairness, she's always been one of my least favorite characters, but I'm starting to wonder if she's heading for a "What would Cersei do?" 

This is where I always thought Sansa's arc would go. She did after all watch Cersei operate in King's Landing. Offering Lyanna Mormont empty flattery about being a princess -- where did Sansa learn empty flattery from? Nobody is better at it than Cersei. Hiding her meetings and her intentions from Jon. Lying and manipulation are Cersei's game.

However, I am so happy that Sansa is taking agency in her arc that I don't care. I hated her arc last season and I hate when she trusts Littlefinger because I can't stand how he removes her agency. If Sansa is taking power of herself and others, bully for her. And please if she gets married again, let it be a marriage of her own fucking choice.

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, Minneapple said:

This is where I always thought Sansa's arc would go. She did after all watch Cersei operate in King's Landing. Offering Lyanna Mormont empty flattery about being a princess -- where did Sansa learn empty flattery from? Nobody is better at it than Cersei. Hiding her meetings and her intentions from Jon. Lying and manipulation are Cersei's game.

In the books Cersei's role in Sansa's story was a cautionary tale, and to supply notions that she rejects.  The climax of their interactions, at the Blackwater, sees Sansa reject Cersei's belief in rule by fear, and then go on to rally the ladies in the holdfast when Cersei herself runs away because she can't be bothered to properly perform the role of a noble lady.

[cambridgeguy]

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Why is everyone calling Talisa a whore? Robb's mistake is he took a nice carrying person who won his heart, over a Frey girl breaking a King's promise.

The venom should be at Robb, not Talisa.

It's not like they were there to see the courtship.  It's probably highly unusual for a foreign woman to be a battlefield nurse, and for all they know it was her plan to seduce some highborn lord in a moment of weakness.  She just happened to snag the King himself, a naive kid who really, really should have known better. 

The Northerners don't seem overly fond of anyone South of the Neck,  so they really wouldn't like someone from a different continent.

[Alapaki]

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Davos at least understands the bigger picture and isn't trying to get support solely on name recognition. He isn't a northerner but he spoke to a proud northern house and gave them practical reasons for why they should offer their support. He made more headway than Sansa, the girl who was raised in the north, yet Sansa makes it seem like Davos is the one who doesn't know what he's doing? It's one thing for Sansa to have trust issues with Davos and to side eye him for his connection to Stannis and Melisandre because of what happened with Renly. That's fair enough. It's when she criticizes Davos for succeeding in an area where she failed (I don't think her efforts with Lyanna were successful), that made me roll my eyes.

Davos negotiates like a Boss!  He sold the line about standing "before the Lady of a Great House" (which was just as much smoke-up-the-ass as Sansa's beauty remark) to Lady Mormont.  He knows how to convince people without being condescending or smarmy.

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It's not like they were there to see the courtship.  It's probably highly unusual for a foreign woman to be a battlefield nurse, and for all they know it was her plan to seduce some highborn lord in a moment of weakness.  She just happened to snag the King himself, a naive kid who really, really should have known better. 

The Northerners don't seem overly fond of anyone South of the Neck,  so they really wouldn't like someone from a different continent

 

Because it's so far removed it can be hard to recall just how badly Robb shit the bed.  He sends off Theon with what turns out to be an invitation to the Ironborn to invade the North.  He destroys his alliance with the Freys, which has the triple effect of depleting his ranks, cutting off his supply lines, and blocking his way back North to try to kick the Iron Islanders out.  He gives his Mom a pass on letting Jaime Lannister, who was a huge bargaining chip, walk.  And when that predictably sets off Lord Karstark, he beheads the, eh, head of a major Northern House.

I really think calling Talisa a "foreign whore" was just meant to be nothing more than a harsh and derogatory term because the Glovers were super-fucking-pissed at what Robb's marriage did to them and the rest of the North.

[stillshimpy]

It has to not really be Arya.  Body language, hairstyle, actions, theme music; it's A Man, not A Girl.  Don't know how he managed it.

That might also explain where she got all that darned money.  That's what really caught my husband's attention in the opening scenes with Arya.  Since when does she have bags of gold at her disposal?  

[Dewey Decimate]

You know that gleeful thing babies do, rolling on their backs, giggling while gripping their own toes? That was me as the Hound lurched his way into frame. YES!! With the unusual pre-credit scene I figured it was done to not spoil a recognizable name, and thought "Gendry?" for a moment with the blacksmithing close-up. Even better!

As for the rest of that storyline, though, shiny happy people holding hands is like the Chekhov's gun of GoT. You know shit's gonna go down if anyone is too content.

And confusing casting (for me, at least) with the (possibly pseudo-) BwoB guys. Saw the guy in the middle and wondered WTF Euron was doing that far inland.

Boy, they're really getting their money's worth with the set for the High Sparrow's sit-n-chats.

Wun Wun is the true taste-maker of the North. Maybe he can make "fetch" happen.

I just can NOT with those Frey weasels. Those wimpy, sad, dangly helmet things make them look like emasculated catatafish, or background peasants in a Monty Python sketch.

Did Bronn get a little Rejuvaderm on vacation? He's always been handsome in a way, but I didn't even recognize him when he first rode in with Jamie, and thought "who is that dashing (relatively) young man?"

I like the sibling bonding, but kinda wanted Theon standing up to Yara with "fuck off, I don't want any god-damned ale!" He's had enough bossiness* from Ramsey. (*understatement a la "a few bad years")

Olenna killed Cersie with that speech. Total plume drop.

And what else can be said about Lady Mormont? I'm not predisposed to enjoy little prodigy types, but she was damn impressive. Loved how she commanded the whole place, but was not too proud to consult with her advisers. Please let her meet Sweet Robin and show him a thing or two about being a badass junior leader.

[RedHawk]

48 minutes ago, lidarose9 said:

Is Lady Mormont Jorah's daughter?

If I have this straight she's the daughter of Jorah's father's sister. Thus she's Jorah's first cousin.

[proserpina65]

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What do the Brotherhood have against the free folk?  At least I’m guessing that’s who massacred them.

I'm beginning to think that D&D skipped past any chapters with the BWOB in them - they don't seem to get that they were the only ones who gave a shit about the smallfolk of Westeros, and therefore are unlikely to go around randomly slaughtering them.  At least whilst they were led by Beric Dondarrion, anyway; who knows what crap Lady Stoneheart would have them doing.

[RedHawk]

Wasn't there something in the books about bad guys roaming the country pretending to be BWOB? Sort of to give them a bad reputation? 

[Haleth]

3 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

By the way, whereas it was great to see Blackfish acting more like book Blackfish and less like "Greatjon swallowed Blackfish and this was the result!" poor freaking Tobias Menzies.  His scripts for this season have consisted of "Stand mutely, covered in what will pass for shit and have a series of reaction shots to people insulting you....and your last living relative being okay with your murder....then you'll be saved by the Kingslayer....and get to react mutely to that too."  

Hey, it's an easy paycheck.  Plus it gave him time for his other (double  duty) job on Outlander.

For all the traipsing around the North Jon and Sansa are doing, you'd think Ramsey would catch wind of it and try to catch them.

2 hours ago, ElizaD said:

That's the depressing thing about this plot on the show: the tide won't turn, most of the North is choosing the Boltons, and Jon/Sansa are going to lose to the Boltons if they don't get the help of the man who betrayed Ned. This will be Littlefinger's victory and Jon/Sansa's defeat since it's being shown that the Starks can't hope to retake Winterfell without the Vale army that can override the wishes of the pro-Bolton majority through sheer force alone. Roose got Northern lords killed at the Red Wedding, Ramsay kills for sport, and it's working for them: the Boltons aren't being set up to be beaten by their own evil or the memory of Ned's years of good rulership or the skills of Jon/Sansa, but by Littlefinger's huge army.

I so agree.  The Northerners better rethink their position and come to the aid of Sansa and Jon before LF shows up (from a writing standpoint).  What kind of a kingdom will the North be if all the bannermen have rejected the Stark family?  What kind of honor is there if they come crawling back afterwards, muttering, "bygones, 'kay?"  I'm with the posters who said S&J would be better off abandoning the North to the WWs and letting Ramsey deal with the invasion.

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, InsertWordHere said:

"I wonder if you're the worst person I've ever met. At a certain age, it's hard to recall. But the truly vile do stand out through the years "

Awesome line and awesome delivery with the added bonus that it's being said by a character who has certainly seen some horrible people in her time. Olenna knew Joffrey and his vileness is part of the reason she arranged his death. She worked with Littlefinger. She's at least aware of the Mountain. She presumably knew Aerys II and probably has met Walder Frey too since they're both very old. I don't know if she's ever had occasion to meet Roose or Euron (who hasn't really been revealed on the show to be as horrible as he is in the books). She most likely has never met Ramsay and I hope for her sake it stays that way.

For her to say Cersei might be the worst person she's ever met carries some major weight, even if it's not strictly true.

Olenna and I were on the same page in all of her scenes. I agree that it really means something when the Queen of fucking Thorns is telling you that you're vile beyond words.

What was surprising to me was Cersei admitting that what Olenna was saying about her stupidity was perfectly true. Book Cersei wouldn't have admitted that in a thousand years and would have given mealy mouthed excuses as she did with Kevan.

I also loved Olenna's frustration with Septa Unella's presence especially when Margaery called Unella her dearest friend as if the woman hadn't recently been torturing both her and Loras. Ugh, and Unella's smug face when Olenna telling her that she could call in her guards if she really wanted to do it.

I took comfort in Margaery's note but I'm not convinced that she'll be able or willing to take down the Faith Militant. She's just making sure that she and her family will no longer be in the line of fire. Everyone else is going to have to suffer under these jerks until someone more powerful rolls into town. Even Olenna isn't safe. I'm glad that she was smart enough to figure that out on her own without any prodding from Margaery. I'm curious if Mace will go with her.

I thought Lyanna was the niece of Jorah?

[Misplaced]

5 hours ago, Tikichick said:

IArya's story didn't feel real and I had all sorts of weird thoughts watching it.  Definitely brought the Red Wedding to mind when she was stabbed.  Thought for a minute her story might be combined with the Lady Stoneheart story when she was stabbed and went into the water.  Then I got to thinking about the coin she threw into the water before her entry into the House of Black and White and wondered if she might possibly retrieve it.  I wondered if she died if her face would be harvested and "Arya" would be seen doing many surprising deeds in the future.  I've wondered if the person stabbed was in fact one of the actors, particularly because she didn't have Needle on her, which I cannot believe.  Now I'm wondering what happens to the Waif if she does not take the life she was ordered by Jaqen.

Now, see, I too have been having weird thoughts about it all day (for the Needle reason, and for the oh-hey-I'll-hang-out-and-skip-rocks-off-this-lovely-bridge reason) and am now wondering heavily if A Girl wasn't actually Jaqen in-face to test the Waif....because the Waif sure as heck didn't follow instructions not to let A Girl suffer, did she?  But then I remembered that the FM kind of need a face to pull off that in-face thing, so I guess not.  Bummer.  

Agreed, though, it's all a little weird and a little off.  Unless it's a dream and A Girl wakes up to see Patrick Duffy in her shower after a vision aka Dany in the House of the Undying in Season 2.  Hmm....

ETA:  I'm kinda liking this idea.  It would explain why everything seemed so ... shiny.  And she did go to sleep at the end of the last episode, so .... 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Misplaced
Getting my Seasons right ...

[Haleth]

Maybe Arya and the Waif switched faces for the day.  (LOL)

[bunnyblue]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Are they even mentioning Rickon in their sales pitch?

Jon mentioned him being a prisoner of Ramsay's to Lyanna. But he called him his brother not the rightful heir to Winterfell, which I think was a mistake. Sure, Lady Mormont didn't need more convincing but that little nugget might have come in handy when talking to Lord Glover. When he said "House Stark is dead" I wanted Jon or Sansa to pipe up that no it's not and if he didn't want to follow Ned's bastard or daughter, then at least consider Ned's true heir is still alive and being held prisoner. May not have been enough to sway Glover but give it a try at least. 

But after reading the entire thread, I've accepted that Jon & Sansa being almost complete failures in diplomacy was needed so the general audience can worry about them being massive underdogs in their war with Ramsay. 

I noticed there were 2 House Stark banners flying in camp when Jon, Sansa, and Davos returned from their recruiting campaign. I guess Sansa's been busy sewing banners as well as dresses and cloaks. I also noticed Jon's scars from Hardhome have mostly healed (indicating a significant amount of time has passed) yet his scars from Orel's eagle are still there and more pronounced. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by bunnyblue

[FemmyV]

1 hour ago, ACW said:

It has to not really be Arya.  Body language, hairstyle, actions, theme music; it's A Man, not A Girl.  Don't know how he managed it.

Well he did wear her face once before. I just can't see how anyone with the injuries Arya (or FakeArya) received could possibly go win a fight against the Waif, now. But if you're a FM, you might know of a healing potion.

Edited June 6, 2016 by FemmyV

[stillshimpy]

Well and the way The Waif kills Arya is actually against Jaquen's instructions.  That's pretty much the antithesis of "don't let her suffer", which would mean The Waif has now killed for revenge also.  So maybe he was testing the Waif because she needed to spend a bit of time on Blind Assassins Alley, panhandling and getting her ass handed to her daily?  

Just trying to think of a reason that Jaquen might want to trick her.  If Melisandre can wear a necklace that produces a convincing glamour, I'm going to bet that Jaquen has some kind of hoodoo at his disposal that would allow for a bit of gut-stab-glamour and the dude was wearing armor.  

If that's what's going on, but I guess we will find out eventually. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by stillshimpy

[mac123x]

2 hours ago, Alapaki said:

And, by the way, about it not requiring "desire", only "patience"?  I'm pretty sure that with Tommen not much patience would be required; that kid's gotta be a two-pump-chump.

LOL.  I'm sure what he lacks in staying power he makes up for in fervor and rapid recovery times.  Marge did make a joke to her ladies about him wanting to set a frequency record.

[The Mormegil]

While watching I did take the Arya scenes at face value (though did find a couple of things a little off, mainly how out in the open she was being) but now I'm pretty sure we are looking at a fake out.

It just remains to be seen by whom.

 

Either Jaqan testing the Waif and possibly also giving Arya a way out (if he never intended her becoming No One) using Faceless Man Magic.

 

or Arya using Theatrical props and fake blood to get the League of Assassins to believe she is now dead. I'll have to look at the scene again to see if Arya's movement is what leads the Waif to go for a belly stabbing rather than a throat slitting or something else.

 

 

There is of course the scene

Spoiler

from the Season 6 Trailer of Arya jumping off a roof to consider, that's not happening anytime soon if the stabbing was real (or Arya was really Arya) 

[MadMouse]

Couple of things.

I find it interesting that Jon and Sansa haven't mentioned House Reed. You have to wonder if he'll make an appearance helping the Vale army through the Neck and confirming a certain theory.

Mel should have been the reason why houses were hesitant to support Jon. Her spouting off lines about Jon being a savior and R'hllor chosen would make more sense than what we got.

Is anyone else wondering when Sansa might find out about Jon being brought back to life ? I don't think she knows, thats pretty big news.

[benteen]

I hated D&D's decision to make Robb a spoiled brat and have him marry Talisa on the show.  The Northern families being upset about that now at least makes with the decision they had Robb make on the show.

It is interesting in the books that despite Robb's fatal decision to break off his marriage with the Freys and marry Jeyne, there doesn't seem to be any bitterness with the Northern lords.  They still love the Starks.

[stillshimpy]

It is interesting in the books that despite Robb's fatal decision to break off his marriage with the Freys and marry Jeyne, there doesn't seem to be any bitterness with the Northern lords.  They still love the Starks.

That makes sense though.  In the books Robb had to choose which honorable thing to do.  Since he'd had sex with Jeyne prior to marrying her the code of honor in their world -- regardless of how much of a pretense that might all be, in the land of Moon Tea and Brandon Stark's most disturbing pillow-talk -- if you took advantage of a lady, the only honorable thing left to you would be to marry her.  

Since Robb chose a form of honor that was less advantageous to him than keeping his word to Frey would have been, it's possible to see him as basically being even more honorable than they had before.  

Plus, even in the show Robb broke an alliance but Frey and Bolton broke every rule of civilized society, burned the Honorable Man's Rule Book and then tattooed "And you can kiss my ass!" on the face of Decency to boot.   Even in the show's version of events, what Bolton and Frey did was much, much worse and involved the murder of all the men from the houses who remained loyal past the point of breaking that alliance.   

In addition to all of that, in both the book and the show, Robb tried to make amends for the broken oath by offering up Riverrun and which -- while no marriage to the King -- was not exactly just giving them the bird perpetually.  

[vibeology]

2 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

"I wonder if you're the worst person I've ever met. At a certain age, it's hard to recall. But the truly vile do stand out through the years "

Awesome line and awesome delivery with the added bonus that it's being said by a character who has certainly seen some horrible people in her time. Olenna knew Joffrey and his vileness is part of the reason she arranged his death. She worked with Littlefinger. She's at least aware of the Mountain. She presumably knew Aerys II and probably has met Walder Frey too since they're both very old. I don't know if she's ever had occasion to meet Roose or Euron (who hasn't really been revealed on the show to be as horrible as he is in the books). She most likely has never met Ramsay and I hope for her sake it stays that way.

For her to say Cersei might be the worst person she's ever met carries some major weight, even if it's not strictly true.

It's a Mic Drop of a line, but Olenna has to know its not even close to true. Cersei is awful but like you said there are some other serious contenders for that title. Tywin would probably win in my books for everything he managed to do in his lifetime. Olenna was around when he wiped out the Reynes. It seems like no one outside of the family knows about Tysha, but everyone knows about the sack of King's Landing. Add to it the Red Wedding and the destruction of the Riverlands and Tywin is probably the most destructive person Olenna has ever met. Give Cersei time but I don't think she's truly there yet.

[FemmyV]

21 minutes ago, The Mormegil said:

While watching I did take the Arya scenes at face value (though did find a couple of things a little off, mainly how out in the open she was being) but now I'm pretty sure we are looking at a fake out.

...

or Arya using Theatrical props and fake blood to get the League of Assassins to believe she is now dead. I'll have to look at the scene again to see if Arya's movement is what leads the Waif to go for a belly stabbing rather than a throat slitting or something else

There is of course the scene

  Reveal hidden contents

from the Season 6 Trailer of Arya jumping off a roof to consider, that's not happening anytime soon if the stabbing was real (or Arya was really Arya) 

I just re-watched that business, and here's what stands out: Arya, who should be fearing for her life and keeping a low profile, instead spreading money around town, standing at the bridge looking like a sighing tourist when the Waif comes up.

Arya turns towards the Waif, looking clueless. Waif slashes her belly, then turns her around for the stabs, and twists the knife (which should have been the coup de grace). 

While all that slashing is going on, Arya's reaction is fear, until suddenly she gets a look of steely resolve, and nimbly, counter-attacks, NIMBLY, jumps to the bridge rail, and nimbly, rolls off. Where the average person would be dealing with their guts hanging out, Arya was in control of her movements.

Getting out of the water, her movements are slowed but she has far more control of herself than someone who'd just been fatally attacked. She moves ahead, appearing in pain, blood dripping, but resolved.

I think it's entirely possible she borrowed some sheep intestines and some Karo to pull this off.

[Avaleigh]

7 minutes ago, vibeology said:

It's a Mic Drop of a line, but Olenna has to know its not even close to true. Cersei is awful but like you said there are some other serious contenders for that title. Tywin would probably win in my books for everything he managed to do in his lifetime. Olenna was around when he wiped out the Reynes. It seems like no one outside of the family knows about Tysha, but everyone knows about the sack of King's Landing. Add to it the Red Wedding and the destruction of the Riverlands and Tywin is probably the most destructive person Olenna has ever met. Give Cersei time but I don't think she's truly there yet.

If Olenna met Aerys, I'd say he wins hands down. Nobody was safe around Aerys, not even his wife. I wonder how many people heard the story of what happened with that wetnurse? I also wonder which Targaryen her family wanted to marry where she was like, 'No way.'

Olenna has definitely seen some sick tickets in her time. She seemed to like Tywin in her own way. She certainly liked him more than Cersei.

[Tikichick]

10 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

I just re-watched that business, and here's what stands out: Arya, who should be fearing for her life and keeping a low profile, instead spreading money around town, standing at the bridge looking like a sighing tourist when the Waif comes up.

Arya turns towards the Waif, looking clueless. Waif slashes her belly, then turns her around for the stabs, and twists the knife (which should have been the coup de grace). 

While all that slashing is going on, Arya's reaction is fear, until suddenly she gets a look of steely resolve, and nimbly, counter-attacks, NIMBLY, jumps to the bridge rail, and nimbly, rolls off. Where the average person would be dealing with their guts hanging out, Arya was in control of her movements.

Getting out of the water, her movements are slowed but she has far more control of herself than someone who'd just been fatally attacked. She moves ahead, appearing in pain, blood dripping, but resolved.

I think it's entirely possible she borrowed some sheep intestines and some Karo to pull this off.

This also would explain why so much time was spent showing us Arya watching the plays.  If it was only about her assignment, we could have been shown much less to get the point across about who her assigned target was. 

[Gertrude]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

What was surprising to me was Cersei admitting that what Olenna was saying about her stupidity was perfectly true. Book Cersei wouldn't have admitted that in a thousand years and would have given mealy mouthed excuses as she did with Kevan.

...

I thought Lyanna was the niece of Jorah?

True, Book Cersei would have spit back in Olena's face. But we are being treated to Show Cersei, who is descending into sanity rather than descending into madness and paranoia. Pity.

As for the relation of Jorah and Lyanna, who knows. We've been introduced to Maege (by name and brief glimpse), but not her daughters. I'm assuming one of her daughters went South with Robb and died, thus making Lyanna the Lady Mormont. Otherwise, the ages do not really match up. It's ok show, I'll do the heavy lifting for you.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Gertrude

[nksarmi]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Are they even mentioning Rickon in their sales pitch?  No one seems to care that Jon should be seen as a Night's Watch deserter and/or a corpse reanimated through foreign magic, and anyone loyal to the Starks should be spurred into action by having the King in the North (sorry Bran) rotting in a dungeon. 

LF will deliver but he might wait for Jon's army to whittle things down a bit - it'll make things easier for the Vale forces.  By the time that's done the majority of the North's fighting men will be toast thanks to Robb's campaigns, the Red Wedding, and the upcoming fight.  They won't have the strength to stop LF from becoming Warden of the North.

That might happen if this was just some medieval night time soap opera, but it's not. Even amidst the political scheming - it's still a fantasy story with heroes and kings. Jon is going to head the army that defeats the Others. Littlefinger is VERY good at creating chaos, but he is also VERY good at knowing who is going to come out on top. He might try to position Sansa in a way that favors him at first, but I don't think it will take him long at all to see the winds are changing (including the shitstorm Cersei has created with the Faith Militant) and make himself Jon's "clever" advisor rather than someone trying to compete with him for power.

[Dev F]

9 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

This also would explain why so much time was spent showing us Arya watching the plays.  If it was only about her assignment, we could have been shown much less to get the point across about who her assigned target was. 

But the players very conspicuously did not use blood, guts, or syrup in the gory moments of the play. They used, for instance, fabric intestines sewn into King Robert's costume. It would be a pretty dumb cheat for the show to suggest that Arya learned about fake blood by watching people not use it.

Also, as others have mentioned, Arya had no way of knowing that the Waif would stab her in the belly instead of slitting her throat or bashing her over the head. If this is a ruse, it seems to me that it has to involve someone who can either heal Arya's real wounds, or pretend to be Arya and then either heal his own wounds or sacrifice his life to save hers. In other words, it would have to involve Jaqen.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Dev F

[The Mormegil]

4 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

In the books Lyanna is Jorah's niece, but in the show ... who knows. 

She's Jorah's cousin in the books and in the show.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

Wasn't there something in the books about bad guys roaming the country pretending to be BWOB? Sort of to give them a bad reputation? 

It's been awhile since I've read them, so I don't remember.  I'm hoping you're right.  Because otherwise this shit's fucked up.

[bunnyblue]

44 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

Is anyone else wondering when Sansa might find out about Jon being brought back to life ? I don't think she knows, thats pretty big news.

I'm pretty sure she knows. At CB, Jon told her "I can't stay here, not after what happened". Brienne said he's a brooding but "that's understandable, considering". And in this episode Jon told Sansa "Ser Davos is the reason I'm standing here talking to you". Oh yeah, and Tormund flat out told the Wildlings, with Sansa present, Jon died for them. I thought it was obvious they spilled their guts to each other and shared all their traumas while holed up in Jon's room at CB.

[mac123x]

49 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

Is anyone else wondering when Sansa might find out about Jon being brought back to life ? I don't think she knows, thats pretty big news.

I think Davos mentioned in his sales pitch to Lady Mormont.  Sansa was there and didn't react so presumably she's heard the tale off-screen.

23 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

If Olenna met Aerys, I'd say he wins hands down. Nobody was safe around Aerys, not even his wife. I wonder how many people heard the story of what happened with that wetnurse? I also wonder which Targaryen her family wanted to marry where she was like, 'No way.'

IIRC from the World Book, it was one of Aegon V's sons, who was gay, so he was fine with Olenna saying "no".

[Tikichick]

17 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But the players very conspicuously did not use blood, guts, or syrup in the gory moments of the play. They used, for instance, fabric intestines sewn into King Robert's costume. It would be a pretty dumb cheat for the show to suggest that Arya learned about fake blood by watching people not use it.

Also, as others have mentioned, Arya had no way of knowing that the Waif would stab her in the chest instead of slitting her throat or bashing her over the head. If this is a ruse, it seems to me that it has to involve someone who can either heal Arya's real wounds, or pretend to be Arya and then either heal his own wounds or sacrifice his life to save hers. In other words, it would have to involve Jaqen.

Simply because the troupe didn't use those types of tricks in the performance Arya watched doesn't mean they don't have skills of fooling someone about what they're seeing.  I think it's likely there is significance about Arya's target.  Remember it is after all a target Jaqen assigned her.

I don't dispute what you say about Jaqen being involved.  We've seen him pull off many deceptive stunts over the seasons.  I suspected last week there was significance to Arya telling him she had selected the name Mercy.  It seemed to me she had asked him back at the fountain in the House of Black and White what he was doing and he told her he was giving the people mercy when he gave them the cups to drink.  Arya was merciful to Jaqen when he was locked up in the wagon in the fire.

I'd be interested to know where prisoner Jaqen was picked up and detained?  Kings Landing?  Leaving Kings Landing?  What was he doing away from the House of Black and White?  Has he ever given dancing lessons?

Edited June 6, 2016 by Tikichick
Forgotten detail

[FemmyV]

13 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'd be interested to know where prisoner Jaqen was picked up and detained?  Kings Landing?  Leaving Kings Landing?  What was he doing away from the House of Black and White?  Has he ever given dancing lessons?

1. Yes. 2. Yes, He was one of three prisoners going to the wall with Joren & Co.

3. Good question.

4. We don't know

[nachomama]

SWEEGIN! HOUND! BRON! I love Ian McShane and I laugh now at how much flack he got for supposedly giving away too much, about his role,  he gave away nothing.

After the Hound dispatches whoever they were, is he going after Arya or Brienne or who is at the top of his list? and will he go back on Arya's?

[nodorothyparker]

4 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

The only issue there is that it was Roose who betrayed them at the Red Wedding; Ramsey was not involved. The current Lord of Winterfell is the man who killed Roose (no one seems to even be pretending to believe the story that he was poisoned by enemies) and then helped the Glovers retake their castle from the Ironborn.

This thought occurred to me too and why again I think letting Super Ramsay kill Roose was a mistake storywise.  Sure, there's the issue that Michael McElhatton gave Roose some nuance and silky voiced menace while Ramsay is little more than one ACME safe drop away from being a fully fledged cartoon. But Ramsay's not the one who stabbed their king in the heart and allied with the Freys to murder their kinsmen to seize power.  Roose did.  Ramsay may be a psycho, but he's the guy who helped Glover get his castle back from the Ironborn, repelled invasion from, to their minds, the foreign king Stannis, and is making moves to suggest that under him they won't have to tolerate living next to wildlings.  Ramsay comes off looking almost like a reasonable bet to keep peace in the North as winter finally sets in.

Meanwhile, back from the dead and apparent Nights Watch deserter Jon is riding around with Ramsay's runaway bride and a Southroner they don't know, and his grand coalition to win back the North seems to be made up mostly of the much hated wildlings.  They're also not really giving much reason why anyone should throw in with them except the Stark name, which previous dumb decision making has definitely soured them on.  I do wonder how many ravens are flying back and forth letting Ramsay know what they're doing.

[Tikichick]

Just now, nodorothyparker said:

This thought occurred to me too and why again I think letting Super Ramsay kill Roose was a mistake storywise.  Sure, there's the issue that Michael McElhatton gave Roose some nuance and silky voiced menace while Ramsay is little more than one ACME safe drop away from being a fully fledged cartoon. But Ramsay's not the one who stabbed their king in the heart and allied with the Freys to murder their kinsmen to seize power.  Roose did.  Ramsay may be a psycho, but he's the guy who helped Glover get his castle back from the Ironborn, repelled invasion from, to their minds, the foreign king Stannis, and is making moves to suggest that under him they won't have to tolerate living next to wildlings.  Ramsay comes off looking almost like a reasonable bet to keep peace in the North as winter finally sets in.

Meanwhile, back from the dead and apparent Nights Watch deserter Jon is riding around with Ramsay's runaway bride and a Southroner they don't know, and his grand coalition to win back the North seems to be made up mostly of the much hated wildlings.  They're also not really giving much reason why anyone should throw in with them except the Stark name, which previous dumb decision making has definitely soured them on.  I do wonder how many ravens are flying back and forth letting Ramsay know what they're doing.

As far as Ramsey reading the ravens, I had wondered if Sansa's missive wasn't intentionally flouting the Stark seal for that very reason.

[Avaleigh]

9 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

True, Book Cersei would have spit back in Olena's face. But we are being treated to Show Cersei, who is descending into sanity rather than descending into madness and paranoia. Pity.

As for the relation of Jorah and Lyanna, who knows. We've been introduced to Maege (by name and brief glimpse), but not her daughters. I'm assuming one of her daughters went South with Robb and died, thus making Lyanna the Lady Mormont. Otherwise, the ages do not really match up. It's ok show, I'll do the heavy lifting for you.

I imagine book Cersei being tempted to throw wine at the very least although to be fair, I am thinking of pre-Walk Cersei. The glimpse that we saw of her in Kevan's epilogue though, she seems like she learned how to dial it back a bit.

Yeah, I initially assumed that the relationship between Jorah and Maege was different on the show just because of the ages. The show established last season that Jorah is in his fifties so his father was roughly in his seventies before he died. Maege is next in line after Jeor (since Jorah took himself out of the running) so somehow there's a very large age gap between Maege and Jeor. It makes more sense if Maege is Jorah's sister rather than his aunt. I was going to say that maybe Jon meant that Jeor was Lyanna's great uncle but then remember show Jeor (I think) once mentioning his sister Maege. 

The Mormonts are kind of slacking in the children producing department in comparison to families like the Starks, Greyjoys, Tyrells, Lannisters, etc.

[The Mormegil]

12 minutes ago, nachomama said:

SWEEGIN! HOUND! BRON! I love Ian McShane and I laugh now at how much flack he got for supposedly giving away too much, about his role,  he gave away nothing.

After the Hound dispatches whoever they were, is he going after Arya or Brienne or who is at the top of his list? and will he go back on Arya's?

I know he got a lot of flack but he did reveal his character was responsible for bringing the Hound back, which was the sole reason the character was on the show, so more like he gave away everything than he gave away Nothing.

[nachomama]

I could remember wrong but I don't think he gave away the Hound's return. He said his character bring someone back and most people speculated either Jon Snow or Lady Stoneheart (even Stannis and Mance Rayder). There were many options as to who he brought back. They also got pissed when he yelled at the fans for being stupid and said he was only there for an episode or 2.