S05.E11: Synecdoche

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The team must unravel a conspiracy and stay ahead of the Secret Service when the President of the United States becomes their newest POI. Also, Finch separates himself from the team and considers taking drastic action to combat Samaritan.

Promo:

[StarBrand]

I looked up the meaning of the title in Wikipedia. , and it's a figure of speech in which a person applies a human element to a non-human object. An example would be calling an old person a "greybeard" or to refer to champagne as "bubbles". So it's referencing referring to the machine as "she", or perhaps the machine using Root's voice..

Edited June 1, 2016 by StarBrand

[Agent Dark]

1 hour ago, StarBrand said:

I looked up the meaning of the title in Wikipedia. , and it's a figure of speech in which a person applies a human element to a non-human object. An example would be calling an old person a "greybeard" or to refer to champagne as "bubbles". So it's referencing referring to the machine as "she", or perhaps the machine using Root's voice..

I don't think that's quite right, which sounds a little conflated with anthropomorphising (assigning human qualities to non-human objects as in the case of calling The Machine a She, debates on the idea of The Machine having an identity and gender notwithstanding).  A synecdoche is commonly when you are using a word that describes part of something to refer to that something as a whole.  Using bubbles to refer to champagne counts as one because champagne (the whole) has lots of bubbles (a part of champagne) in it.  An example in show would be like how Fusco commonly refers to Finch (the whole) as "Glasses" (a part of Finch).  A synecdoche can also be used the other way around too - describing a part of something by referring to it as a whole; eg "The Fire Department rescued my cat" would probably refer to the specific fire-fighter who climbed up the tree, not literally the entire Fire Department assembling in a rescue mission.  There are some other types of synecdoches too, so we'll have to see the episode to find out what its actually referring too, but given that this episode would appear to be set at The White House (ie a synecdoche to refer to The President) that could be a good bet.

[fastiller]

I am in withdrawal from two eps a week. I don't want to contemplate when the series ends.Sniff.

[DeepRunner]

21 hours ago, fastiller said:

I am in withdrawal from two eps a week. I don't want to contemplate when the series ends.Sniff.

This show has been the. BEST. SHOW. ON. TV. It's a pathetic shame that it's ending.

[AimingforYoko]

"Rest in peace, Cocoa Puffs." Couldn't ask for a much better elegy than that. RIP Root.

Logan Pierce! They really are bringing back the greatest hits. And former numbers are The Machine's assets? Nicely played. I was wondering why Samaritan wasn't snuffing those new Vigilance morons and Shaw helpfully exposited the answer. 

[TigerLynx]

I realize they were having to think on the fly, but Reese and Shaw staying on that roof after the explosion asking each other do you think the drone blew up the President, do you think our plan worked and he's alive, after they had just taken several shots at the President was dumb.

It's about time Finch got in the game, but I'm still wondering why he waited so long.

[Clawdette]

I just want to squee! at the appearance of past numbers.  Such a great way to show our heroes' efforts have not been in vain. Yes, they have made a difference. 

[beadgirl]

Nice touch having Shaw and Reese salute their number as he was escorted away.  Sniff.  It's also kind of sweet to see the return of some numbers, and that the Machine has recruited others.  Except for fucking Harper. I completely forgot about her, and was happier for it.

When Joey said there was someone they needed to talk to, I thought/hoped it was Control.  Sigh.

[kwnyc]

It means nothing, but I am inexplicably pleased that I CALLED the crazy billionaire coming back...and last season's Shawdition winner. Like the others, The Machine has changed them and made them better people.

They are setting it up so that The Machine is creating her own network of assets, so when (inevitably) the original Team Machine bites the dust, She will still have humans who can help other humans.

And oh, man, "she's in mourning." Killer.

[janeta]

-snif- only two more eps.

 

what was the name on Root's headstone? (--which wouldn't have been finished and placed for weeks, if not months, but, whatevs...)

[beadgirl]

She had a pauper's grave, so just a number, I think.  (Get it?)

[Driad]

One way to take down a drone:  Spear vs. Drone

[beadgirl]

Ha,  I thought of that, Driad!

[fastiller]

Oh MachineRoot, you magnificent bastard.

This is how opening the machine helps.

More thoughts after a night's sleep.

[Gigi43]

Biggest breath-holding moment was Scott Pelley breaking in the commercial towards the end with election updates, I panicked at the thought of a delay if they were going to really get into the results or end up showing a speech or something.

I get that Pierce is suppose to be, and I'm happy we saw him again, Finch but I'm still holding out hope Caleb Phipps could be a new Finch. Will Julian Sands' character be their Greer? What kind of dog do they have?  They all needed a reminder of how they've changed lives for the better, too bad Finch doesn't know. Or maybe he'd be even more freaked knowing the Machine has done this behind his back?

 

If a quality Reese/Finch scene doesn't happen in the next two episodes, I will be livid. I loved Shaw and Reese kicking ass, though.

 

"Just when I thought I figured you guys out!" Poor Fusco. 

Edited June 8, 2016 by Gigi43

[ShannaB]

I have to admit that I had a few tears at the end of the episode seeing 'old numbers' helping out like they did. 

The actor who played Joey is Amy Ackers husband in RL.

[janeta]

13 minutes ago, beadgirl said:

She had a pauper's grave, so just a number, I think.  (Get it?)

Ahhh, very good.  Couldn't read the stone; i thought it was too many characters for 'Groves.'

[HowdyTV]

I'm a little worried about Harold. With the warning he received from "Root" about the virus he obtained, is Harold going off the rails in a very big way that will prove less helpful and more hurtful than has been his intentions all along? I don't want Harold ruined for the end. 

I also wondered if the show was trying to make the point that ordinary citizens would reach a tolerance level and rise up against Samaritan so that The Machine would end up having more allies and society would go back to more reasonable levels of surveillance than what is depicted on the show. (I can dream, can't I?)

Sniff. 

[MrWhyt]

On 6/1/2016 at 7:16 PM, Agent Dark said:

 A synecdoche is commonly when you are using a word that describes part of something to refer to that something as a whole.

or how a number represents a person. 

Minor nitpick: HMX-1 is the USMC squadron that flies Marine One, not Marine One itself. Otherwise an excellent episode, great to see that The Machine is making use of past numbers to continue its work.

Edited June 8, 2016 by MrWhyt

[benteen]

Very exciting episode.  Having the number be the President was a great idea for the show and definitely raised the stakes, no matter how doubtful it is that Reese and Shaw could have escaped being surrounded like that.

I did love seeing some of the old numbers pop up and love the idea that the Machine is recruiting.  It makes a lot of sense and something that needed to happen for a long time.  It's a good thing Harold doesn't know about them as he's so hell bent on not bringing in more people to help them fight this war.

You know, during Person of Interest's early days I was worried that CBS might dilute the product and start spinning it off.  Person of Interest LA, Miami and so on.  The show's premise definitely would have made that logical.  I'm glad it never happened although I liked seeing a new Team Machine here.

Harold road trip.  Loved hearing him interact with MachineRoot.

The computer hacker thing reminded me of another one of my favorite shows, Mr. Robot.  That's a great show I would recommend, one that reminds me of POI in certain ways.

Edited June 8, 2016 by benteen

[DeepRunner]

Initial thoughts from the top:

* The merry-go-round callback to the simulations was cool. Shaw still's struggling with sorting out reality. 

* Finch goes rogue while driving a beat-up old sedan, with Root's voice as his traveling companion. I agree with what another poster put up the other day with a slight twist: It would have been good to hear Ingram's voice as the replacement voice instead of his Finch's sixth-grade teacher. His mopey skull session in the diner with The Machine was interesting, and took a step towards explaining unforeseen consequences with the freon story, as a parallel to the creation of The Machine. I'm with The Voice of Root on this one, though, let The Machine grow to its full potential

* Peter Collier, call yer office. A backdoor callback to Vigilance, with the Senator's wife (would've been great if it had been Garrison's wife) portraying the protester of intrusion. Speaking of backdoors...

* Did we just see the backdoor for PoI to continue sometime, somewhere, with Logan Pierce, Joey, and Harper Rose as assets of The Machine? Logan, OK, Joey, OK, but Harper????????? Where the heck is Zoe Morgan? She'd be a cooler agent of The Machine. 

* Shaw tortures one of the faux Vigilance crew. Would've been cool and a tribute to Root if it had been an iron. Her sociopathic nature is on the surface, while she mourns Root's death

* Finch installs a virus on a Samaritan server, then, like Root would (and maybe even Greer), tells a military guy what the consequences would be if the soldier fails to let him go. Very cool, and Finch is on the Warpath

* It's always gooooooooooooood to see Shaw and Reese go Black Ops Martial Arts on people

* Fusco saves Shaw at a brownstone in Dupont. As someone who is very familiar with the DC landscape, I was glad to have an eppy in the DC area 

Two more. Nolan and Plageman, swing for the fences on these.

[Netfoot]

52 minutes ago, janeta said:

Couldn't read the stone; i thought it was too many characters for 'Groves.'

It said simply 050313.  A number I will probably remember.  I may even have a T-shirt printed.

[Gigi43]

Random Thought: I know the actor is on an NBC show now so maybe they couldn't get him but if we're bringing in a new string, Leon really should be involved... somehow. Someone needs to be comic relief and he's already faced Shaw's crazy. Or at least mention that the new team is now getting his number every now and then.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Gigi43

[Snarkette]

There is no new team. There is no future. There is only CBS and a proper ending, which is slightly better than what Limitless got.

[yellowfred]

So, as far as "episodes right after a major character death" go, this one wasn't bad.  I wouldn't put it in the same league as "The Devil's Share," but it wasn't bad.

Shaw was absolutely killing it.  I got a little (read: a lot) weepy seeing her at the playground.  I was a little worried that they'd go too far one way or the other with her grieving process, but the way it played out, to me, felt true to the character.  She was definitely more on edge than usual, but Shaw's never going to be the one to let feelings get in the way of doing her job.  I particularly loved her little "who needs God mode" moment at the Vigilance-Lite headquarters.

On a side note, I'm gonna be honest, it hurt me a little bit, in my soul, to hear the Machine call Root "Samantha Groves."

[juliet73]

2 hours ago, beadgirl said:

 

When Joey said there was someone they needed to talk to, I thought/hoped it was Control.  Sigh.

Refresh my memory...what did happen to Control?

[bros402]

57 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

Refresh my memory...what did happen to Control?

Samaritan tested her. She failed the test.

 

She was last seen with a black bag on her head, with Greer telling her she would be put where she belongs.

 

I enjoyed the episode.

[thuganomics85]

A solid episode to cool things off a bit, after all the craziness that went down last week.  At first, I thought it was simply a typical "POI case of the week", only with the President as the number, so it raises the stakes a bit.  But even after the reveals of both Pierce and Joey, the thought never even occurred to me, that they were part of their own team, that were inspired to do the same that Original Team POI does, only in D.C.  Love it!  Even if I wasn't wild about Harper.  But I like the idea that they truly have been changing the lives of the various numbers, and some of them have been going on to work for The Machine also, only in different locations. I truly wonder who else is doing it?  I guess if this show was more successful in CBS eyes, we would have gotten a spin-off set up a long time ago.

Pierce's return was my favorite due to Jimmi Simpson being a hoot and a half, but I really did love Joey's return, because talk about a blast from the past.  That's old-school season one number!  Back when the show was still feeling itself out, and was almost thought to be another crime procedural, that just benefited from a computer, Ben Linus, and Jesus.  Wish we had more time to see others.  Like what Dr. Tillman was up too.  Or hell, have their first number from the pilot (Natalie Zea's bad guy), come back somehow and serve as an antagonist again.  Still, I will settle for a brief appearance from both Leon and Zoe, assuming Ken Leung and Paige Turco could make time from their other shows.

Fusco's little eulogy of Root was great.  Especially fitting the Coco Puffs part in.  I will miss those two together.  But I was glad Fusco came along for the ride.  I do wonder who was babysitting Bear throughout all of this?

Shaw handled Root's death the way I expected.  Acting stone-cold and unemotional, but you can see the glimpses that it eats her up inside.

Oh, Finch.  He is somehow both scaring me and making me feel for him.  I want him to take out Samaritan and Greer, but at what cost?  

At least The Machine is keeping Root's voice, so Amy Acker can finish off the season.  I was surprised that The Machine didn't try to speak in Grace's voice; or Nathan's; in order to try and sway Finch.  Then again, at this rate, it might have made Finch go even further into the dark side.

Only two episodes left! 

[tessaray]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

It said simply 050313.  A number I will probably remember.  I may even have a T-shirt printed.

I had hoped it meant something but the closest I can come is "Zero Day", which aired on 2013-05-02. 

[wilnil]

@thuganomics85, they actually dropped Dr. Tillman's name in an episode from (I think) last season as someone they could go to for emergency medical care on the sly, just like Dr. Madani (the doctor/morgue attendant who saved Reese after he was shot by his CIA buds).

Back months ago when it was uncertain whether the show would get a season 6 somewhere, I started working out a whole plotline in my head for how the show could continue if the team got broken up by deaths, being on the run, etc. in the aftermath of the Samaritan war. It's disconcerting to see how many wrinkles I came up with that, it turns out, the writers' room had already had on their bucket list: the Machine's use of its simulations to communicate (say, if Fusco survived, getting calls from Carter prompting him to keep working the numbers), the notion of gradually spreading to new cities ... it even dawned on me that Logan Pierce (extremely rich software genius) was in a very good position to become a second Finch somewhere else.

If I'd written it out as a fanfic, I'd probably be getting sued by now.

[Agent Dark]

2 hours ago, yellowfred said:

Shaw was absolutely killing it.  I got a little (read: a lot) weepy seeing her at the playground.  I was a little worried that they'd go too far one way or the other with her grieving process, but the way it played out, to me, felt true to the character.  She was definitely more on edge than usual, but Shaw's never going to be the one to let feelings get in the way of doing her job.  I particularly loved her little "who needs God mode" moment at the Vigilance-Lite headquarters.

I think the moment that got me was when she interrogating the waiter, and she threatens his friends and family - "Most of all, I'm angry that you have people you can love."  That and she kept checking her ear to see if this was another of Samaritan's simulations.  And MachineRoot saving her in the nick of time from being ID'd by Samaritan, because she was wanted to go back to a new simulation  :( 

2 hours ago, yellowfred said:

On a side note, I'm gonna be honest, it hurt me a little bit, in my soul, to hear the Machine call Root "Samantha Groves."

I had the same reaction, but then it got me thinking about how Root identifies.  Harold routinely calls her Ms. Groves without much of an argument from her.  In fact the only time I can recall her actually getting defensive about her name (and correct me if I'm wrong) is in God Mode, when she and Harold walk into the Nuclear Power Plant only to find The Machine gone.  She's quite upset that she thinks Harold lied to her, she wasn't able to physically be with The Machine (not to mention that she'd run out of admin access too and wasn't hearing The Machine in her ear anymore) and when he calls her Ms. Groves she snaps "My name is ROOT" back at him - its a regression of the partnership they'd established whilst searching for The Machine. 

Person of Interest has always been really fantastic at its deliberate use of names, and I see no reason why that would have changed, so it got me wondering if the name Root is perhaps something she uses more to shield herself from the world.  Harold is one of the very few people she genuinely, deeply cares for so perhaps she 'allows' him the use of her real name.  I get the feeling that she would be completely fine with Shaw using her real name, and if that follows then she would definitely be OK with The Machine calling her as such.  And then when you consider The Machine knows Root to 99.6% accuracy, then it stands to reason that MachineRoot would know herself enough to know that.  Just my thought anyway.

[ABay]

Somewhere back in the first or second season, I remember discussion about the Machine recruiting more people so it's nice to see that it has, and especially nice that some of them are previous numbers. 

Before this show ends, they need to address the burning question of who is taking care of Bear while they're all out saving people. Maybe one of the previous numbers has become a dog walker.

[StarBrand]

So, Root is really dead. 

Only from Fusco would "Cocoa Puffs" be seen as a term of endearment.

Shaw is grieving, but in her own way. For one, she doesn't show up to Root's (numbered) grave. Instead, she's seen moping at the roundabout, still checking to see the chip is still in her, still convinced this is all a simulation yet again. She wants it to be, so she openly goads Samaritan into taking her again, just so she can "reset." Unfortunately, Sameen, this is real. Then Reese sees the package the machine got her, and starts talking about Root-"the machine's using Root's identities now that she's..."-and Shaw disgustedly crumples everything and throws it to the ground. She Machine still wants her to play hero, and she can't believe it has the gall to ask her to do that.

Then there was that scene with the waiter guy. "You have people that you can love and you chose to sign their death warren." Legitimate connections with people are rare with Shaw, and she despises anyone who could take that for granted...

Then finally, at the end, she feels good enough to mention Root's name-"that's what Root would have wanted". A wee little crack in the armour.

1 hour ago, Agent Dark said:

I had the same reaction, but then it got me thinking about how Root identifies.  Harold routinely calls her Ms. Groves without much of an argument from her.  In fact the only time I can recall her actually getting defensive about her name (and correct me if I'm wrong) is in God Mode, when she and Harold walk into the Nuclear Power Plant only to find The Machine gone.  She's quite upset that she thinks Harold lied to her, she wasn't able to physically be with The Machine (not to mention that she'd run out of admin access too and wasn't hearing The Machine in her ear anymore) and when he calls her Ms. Groves she snaps "My name is ROOT" back at him - its a regression of the partnership they'd established whilst searching for The Machine. 

I agree. I don't think, after Root started working with Finch, that she ever objected to him calling her Miss Groves again...

[StarBrand]

10 minutes ago, ABay said:

Somewhere back in the first or second season, I remember discussion about the Machine recruiting more people so it's nice to see that it has, and especially nice that some of them are previous numbers. 

I believe this was from S4, after Shaw was captured, that Root floated the idea that perhaps they should be looking for more people to help them out. Finch couldn't believe she'd want to do that after losing Shaw...

[Trillium]

The Root funeral, man that was sad. I'm still convinced the last shot of the series is a shot of Reese and Finch's graves revealing their real names with a hoard of former numbers gathered around.

I would have loved if this season included more past numbers all working together to defeat Samaritan because that was an optimistic ending in the "they are all going to die" reality that's coming. If they brought  Harper (thank you Reese, totally forgot her name) back, they have to have Zoe, right???? If not I'll just fan hawk that she's the one watching Bear and she and Reese have resumed their FWB status. 

Only two left, sigh. I'm sad but I realized during the wedding episode, much like Shaw, I'm over the case of the week numbers. Would have liked a longer final season to see more of them actually fighting back but I'm just glad they do have a proper ending. 

[fastiller]

8 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Biggest breath-holding moment was Scott Pelley breaking in the commercial towards the end with election updates, I panicked at the thought of a delay if they were going to really get into the results or end up showing a speech or something.

 

Me too.  I started to say "NOOO!!!" then they went back to the show so I calmed down,.

8 hours ago, benteen said:

Very exciting episode.  Having the number be the President was a great idea for the show and definitely raised the stakes, no matter how doubtful it is that Reese and Shaw could have escaped being surrounded like that.

I did love seeing some of the old numbers pop up and love the idea that the Machine is recruiting.  It makes a lot of sense and something that needed to happen for a long time.  It's a good thing Harold doesn't know about them as he's so hell bent on not bringing in more people to help them fight this war.

You know, during Person of Interest's early days I was worried that CBS might dilute the product and start spinning it off.  Person of Interest LA, Miami and so on.  The show's premise definitely would have made that logical.  I'm glad it never happened although I liked seeing a new Team Machine here.

Harold road trip.  Loved hearing him interact with MachineRoot.

The computer hacker thing reminded me of another one of my favorite shows, Mr. Robot.  That's a great show I would recommend, one that reminds me of POI in certain ways.

In order:
I really liked that Shaw (& Reese after a moment) realized the enormity of Samaritan not considering POTUS as relevant.
MachineRoot is taking a page from Samaritan's playbook.
I had closed captioning on and when MachineRoot was speaking, it said it was Root speaking.  I would've thought they'd say "The Machine, in Root's Voice."

[ABay]

@StarBrand, I should have phrased my post differently. I meant there was discussion among posters here, or TWoP, very early on about the idea of the Machine recruiting more fighters. 

[Agent Dark]

34 minutes ago, fastiller said:

I had closed captioning on and when MachineRoot was speaking, it said it was Root speaking.  I would've thought they'd say "The Machine, in Root's Voice."

Perhaps it was Root speaking ;)

[StarBrand]

"Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean she's not grieving"

Reese knows a bit about this sort of thing. 

Although it's really going to fuck her up to hear the Machine with Root's voice. You know it's gonna happen sometime.

Despite what some people seem to think, the Machine is NOT Root. She can replicate Root's mannerisms, but it's very clear it's the Machine speaking.  One theme of this episode is-how do two supposedly unfeeling entities (The Machine, Shaw) grieve for someone's loss?

And about Team Machine 2.0-I'm wondering if the machine has been cultivating teams all over the place, all waiting for the Machine's go ahead to go on the offensive...and collectively they'll cause some damage.

Edited June 8, 2016 by StarBrand

[benteen]

8 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Random Thought: I know the actor is on an NBC show now so maybe they couldn't get him but if we're bringing in a new string, Leon really should be involved... somehow. Someone needs to be comic relief and he's already faced Shaw's crazy. Or at least mention that the new team is now getting his number every now and then.

Leon!  Haven't thought about Leon in a while but that would be great.  As much as I love the show, sometimes I don't remember who all the numbers are so Joey I couldn't remember at all.  I really need to do a rewatch one of these days.

[Good Queen Jane]

2 hours ago, ABay said:

Before this show ends, they need to address the burning question of who is taking care of Bear while they're all out saving people. Maybe one of the previous numbers has become a dog walker.

I'm guessing that Fusco's son is looking after Bear in whatever safe place that Fusco has put them.

[Trillium]

34 minutes ago, benteen said:

  As much as I love the show, sometimes I don't remember who all the numbers are so Joey I couldn't remember at all.  I really need to do a rewatch one of these days.

3rd episode in S1.  Im guessing being Amy's husband was w factor in him being one of the numbers to return. 

Edited June 8, 2016 by Trillium

[mtlchick]

So I guess that would have been the backdoor pilot to POI: DC if it was ever considered.  I have to re watch the first season to remember who Joey was.  It was only when I saw Harper I started to guess that the Machine was having the people they saved to carry on the work after relocating them. 

 

I enjoyed it but I agree with the poster who said Shaw/Reese were spending WAY too much time on the roof to make sure POTUS was ok.  And Finch is descending into dark waters was terrific.

 

2. Episodes.  LEFT.  WAH!

[janeta]

Random thoughts:

When the machine was trying to persuade Finch to let her totally loose and "really help people and do some good," like Fastiller, i got a very Samaritan vibe off that.

And i was a little creeped out that the machine would just let that guard's kid die if he didn't let Finch go in the scene  outside the server room; i wonder what little chat Finch had with her about that later.

[StarBrand]

This season is having SO many callbacks and references to the previous seasons

Also--SS has such long hair-it's really nice when she gets to dress up.

[fastiller]

24 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

So I guess that would have been the backdoor pilot to POI: DC if it was ever considered.  I have to re watch the first season to remember who Joey was.  It was only when I saw Harper I started to guess that the Machine was having the people they saved to carry on the work after relocating them. 

 

In my refusal to believe that this show is actually ending, I started to think that perhaps the 13 episode series from Good Wife show creators Mr. & Mrs. King Braindead wasn't perhaps a big ruse from CBS and that they're actually saving a summer's worth of POI episodes.  All those anti-surveillance people acted very similar to how some of the Braindead characters seem to do in the ads they've run.   (Hey, a girl can dream, right?!)

As I mentioned elsewhere, the full series DVD is scheduled for release in July (07.17.2016 if memory serves); I think I'll be pre-ordering and in starting a full series re-watch sometime soon.

[ABay]

ITA the Machine gave off some very Samaritan vibes when describing helping people and with the heart-transplant bargaining chip. 

[Good Queen Jane]

6 minutes ago, ABay said:

ITA the Machine gave off some very Samaritan vibes when describing helping people and with the heart-transplant bargaining chip. 

That's why I think the virus Harold is releasing will take out The Machine as well as Samaritan, or leave them both unable to interfere in human life. That's the collateral damage that the Machine was talking about.

[Netfoot]

8 hours ago, tessaray said:

Quote

It said simply 050313.  A number I will probably remember.  I may even have a T-shirt printed.

I had hoped it meant something but the closest I can come is "Zero Day", which aired on 2013-05-02. 

Well, it means something now.

I have to say that the sight of that grave affected me far more than the site of Root's actual body in the previous episode.  I mean, I love this show, and all the characters in it, and it's ending is very difficult to contemplate.  But that image really spilled the wind out of my sails.