S08.E09: December: Berkshires County

[shoegal]

1 minute ago, sasha206 said:

I'm going to flog the dead horse, but it's because being sexually free doesn't = no discernment.  Is LuAnn fucking every man she meets?  No.  She's just sexually free with the consenting adult she chooses to be sexually free with.  "Fucking everyone" is clearly a histrionic statement with the purpose to humiliate.  It's like expecting someone who is a social drinker to NOT be insulted by someone saying "YOU DRINK ALL THE TIME."  

I agree it's a histrionic statement, which I personally think a histrionic response is appropriate.  Did Bethenny literally mean that LuAnn fucks everyone in the world?  No.  Did she mean that LuAnn fucks a lot of guys, yes.  Does LuAnn fuck a lot of guys?  It seems so. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

In the Lu/Sonja convo Lu totally said she slept with Rey. Lu just defines lover, good god I hate that word, as something different than Sonja. Also, she clearly isn't hiding shit because when Sonja said "oh your the Ibiza guy," Ramona responded in the affirmative so she isn't keeping her dalliances secret.

 

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

I don't think that about Sonja at all, Sonja sees it as a victory lap. Now So ja is a woman that I would say is sexually free with no apologies. I think if anyone called Sonja a slut, she'd say 'I'M TRYING!!'.

LuAnn's was hemming and hawing until Sonja had to flat out clarify, sex or no sex. 

 

53 minutes ago, izabella said:

But why was it necessary for Sonja to clarify, for the tv viewers, ANYTHING about that guy and whether Lu had sex with him or not?  It's none of her fucking business, and wasn't relevant to anything.  She did it to embarrass and/or humiliate Lu, that's it. 

Whether or not she slept with Rey wasn't the point at issue though.  Sonja wasn't clarifying sex or no sex or if he was the Ibiza guy or each woman's definition of the word lover, Lu voluntarily confirmed those.    She was highlighting the stupidity of Lu lying about it.  

Sonja: Just on a lark I said, he's the Ibiza guy.

Lu: Right, he's the Ibiza guy.  He started acting crazy so I didn't want anything to do with him after that.

Sonja: I thought you said it was a one night stand?  so you saw him after that

Lu:  yeah well a couple of times 

To be clear, I don't care about this exchange.  The whole conversation, including who and how many Lu entertains?  none of my business.   That said, I'd do the same thing not because I'm trying to "gotcha" my girlfriend but if she just made the decision to tell it, why lie about any of it?  If it makes her uncomfortable, say I think this conversation is uncool, so I'd rather not.  Does making him a one night stand make her sound like someone with better judgment than a person who continues to see someone who they think is acting crazy?   At that point it's not about her love life but inventing debateably unflattering details about something we don't have to discuss to begin with is plain silly.   

What we have learned here is, (1) it is absolutely nobody's business, (2) Lu is terrible at answering or not answering and uncomfortable question, she can exercise the option of politely invoking her 5th amendment rights (3) instead, she answers the question clumsily by responding with something that may put a positive spin on it (4) the problem with that is she hasn't figured out how to think quickly enough to either remember the lie she's telling or invent another one that properly covers it.    So yeah basically we shouldn't know any of this about her because it's not our damb business, but once she decides to say it, she makes what no one should care about worse by *softening* the details.    It's probably the only time I'll ever invoke Nancy Reagan.  Just say no Lu.

[RHJunkie]

9 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I believe what the situation was is shortly after filming began Season 1, Luann confided in cast members her marriage was rocky.  When the camera lights came on she made it seem as if they were happily married.  She and Bethenny discussed this on Bethenny's show.  Luann was trying to keep hjer marriage together.  Good or bad.  Luann was quite candid (away from Bethenny) when she Kelly and Jill were at the spa discussing their marriages and Luann said, "when they don;t love you anymore they don't love you anymore." The second assertion was they had an open marriage based on the Count's affair and an article that claimed Luann was drunk and grabbed a guy's package at a wedding reception.  The article also contended that the Count pushed Luann to the ground in the parking lot of the same event.  So Ramona decided to declare the Count and Luann had an open marriage.  Ramona being the source is always suspect and usually built on gossip.  So Bethenny is using the age old Luann faking a happy marriage as the base for her diatribe about Luann being a hypocrite.  To me Bethenny did about 20 episodes of faking she loved Jason, now something she feelings she denies having.  So who is the hypocrite?  Be it Luann, Vicki or Yolanda, I don't think it is rare or even hypocritical to try and make your marriage work on camera or off.

Strike one for Luann.

Well maybe Bethenny should look up the word hypocrite. Hypocrisy is such a harsh accusation because it isn't meant for simpleton matters. If I tell someone to never drink and drive and then I drink and drive, that's not me being a hypocrite, that's me being stupid. When I confide behind closed doors that I'm having relationship problems and then to the world I act like I'm in a happy relationship, that's not being a hypocrite, that's me protecting myself from being vulnerable to people who I don't know or trust enough to share such information with. It's also me trying to fake with hopes of making it. Hypocrisy is specific to the moral beliefs that one encompasses and preaches to others. It is hypocritical to preach a moral standing on a matter yet display behaviour that is contrary to the moral/ethical beliefs that you are preaching to others. Example - Bethenny going on about sleeping with a married man while she has and continues to date and possibly sleep with men despite still being married - if there's a grey area that applies to your situation, don't assume that there isn't a grey area that applies to someone else's). Carole makes implications about Luann's morality due to the things that she has said about Carole but turns around and says equally nasty things about Luann that are also against her character. I dislike when these shows start using the term hypocrite, because often times the accuser is at least equally (or sometimes greater) guilty of hypocrisy as well.

[jaync]

Quote

She gets more screen time and more talking heads than any of the others.

Absolutely, including THs where she gets to comment on events where she wasn't even present and/or on situations that don't directly involve her. Not to mention, her SG stuff has been displayed at gatherings others were hosting. Beth might not be holding the reins as a producer, but even Stevie Wonder can see she's being allowed some pull. And it's, well, grating.

Quote

But witch certainly eliminated alllll that from her first season back. 

Yep, all that crying about being single and alone, and having no place to live...bullshit-free, she ain't.

Didn't Beth screech that she hates how Lu lives her life? LOL, wretched loon.

Quote

Also, Bethanny wanting to sleep with a woman is on her bucket list but she can't go down on a women because they smell bad. Girl if your vagina smells bad there is probably something wrong with your health.

Thank you. Maybe all that processed SG crap and stimulants are giving her a funky cooch.

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Bethenny and Andy talking about this episode.  Bethenny is so proud.  http://blog.siriusxm.com/2016/06/01/andy-cohen-previews-bethenny-frankels-explosive-rhony-fight-with-luann-de-lesseps-you-basically-dismember-her/

I still don't get why she and Ramona are petrified to tell Luann about who they are dating.  Certainly their dating situation are nothing close to the Carole and Adam situation.  I would not be proud of calling someone a plastic fuck doll.  Old Bethenny is. 

Good grief, Bethenny can't even let her boss talk/ask questions, she kept cutting him off! LOL

2 hours ago, shoegal said:

Well, people do that (as I mentioned, example: Brandi Glanville) but for example the case with Rey, LuAnn objected to Sonja casting him as her "lover" which implies she was having sex with him, she tried to obfuscate.  I mean, was she in a relationship with Rey?  It doesn't seem so.  Did she fuck him several times?  Yes, it would seem so....I'm thinking a sexually free woman who makes no apologies would have no problem with people knowing Rey was a sexual fling or hookup. 

I think Luann equates the term "lover" as being emotionally involved with not just as having a sexual relationship with, both at the same time. She tells Sonja that Rey was a "1 night stand" and Sonja jokes back that he was a "multiple 1 night stand" and Luann agreed with that. LOL 

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

I don't think that about Sonja at all, Sonja sees it as a victory lap. Now So ja is a woman that I would say is sexually free with no apologies. I think if anyone called Sonja a slut, she'd say 'I'M TRYING!!'.

 

On this I will agree!  

[biakbiak]

30 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Ramona outed the origin of when/where Luann said it this past episode when she was helping Luann write a text apology to Carole for saying it. Luann said she didn't think she said it, Ramona replied that she did in fact say it and Luann admits that it is most likely that she did say it.

I know she said she most likely called her that because people have been talking about it here for months but it was always stated that she said it in a tweet. This past ep Carole stated that Lu shouted it at her at Children's Charity event and that was the part I don't find believable. Also, Carole is the one who brought up to Ramona on this week's episode that Lu called her a pedophile. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by biakbiak

[parisprincess]

I haven't figured out how to do quotes on my new iPad yet, but I want to respond to Shoegal's remark "If there is nothing wrong with being sexual free, why is slut an insult?"

I consider myself sexually free, but that doesn't make me a slut; therefore I would definitely take offense at being called one. Of course the word is an insult, just as Betheny meant it to be.  Luann saying she is dating, having fun and seeing people is the truth.  However involved she is with any of the men she sees is absolutely none of anyone else's business.  She doesn't owe those women any explanations.

[Yours Truly]

19 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

These women were introduced to a Countess that was dressed well, spoke well and had connections to the upper status crowd of Manhattan and internationally. Take away Luann's title and connections and I feel pretty positive that a lot of the small things they take issue with as Luann trying to make them look inferior would not be interpreted as often in such a case. Luann has definitely said things that would be fair for someone to interpret as acting haughty, but they have taken that image of her and apply it to basically anything that they can think of. It's like the moment Luann speaks, their brain quickly goes through all the trigger points to see if there's anything there that they can call her out on or complain about it. Sure, it also doesn't help that Luann is not good with her words and often seems very slow on the draw when it comes to verbal confrontations. She consistently makes it a point to avoid verbal confrontations - perhaps she knows that about herself and chooses to be dismissive because she knows that to do otherwise would not be a service to herself or how she comes across.

On the flip side, I would like someone to point out to Bethenny that while she points her finger accusing Luann of acting better than other people, she has been accused of acting like a know it all by people. What do you think that implies Bethenny? That is one way of someone saying that you behave in a manner in which you think you are better/smarter than others - you are playing with the same superior/inferior dynamic except in those cases Bethenny, you are the Luann.

BINGO!

[WireWrap]

12 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I know she said she most likely called her that because people have been talking about it here for months but it was always stated that she said it in a tweet. This past ep Carole stated that Lu shouted it at her at Children's Charity event and that was the part I don't find believable. Also, Carole is the one who brought up to Ramona on this week's episode that Lu called her a pedophile. 

I also thought it was in a tweet but......as we all just found out it was at a kids charity event, which is even worse IMO, and Luann basically said that she probably did say it at the kids charity event. Sooooo, even though I think Carole should have dropped the attitude, Luann is guilty as charged and owes her, Carole, a giant, public apology.

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

Yes, and the way some people handle that is to turn it around and embrace it, take the power away from the person trying to insult you by saying what you're saying is not an insult.  In this case, if there is nothing wrong with being sexually free, why is slut an insult?  That's my point.  

It is similar to the way that Bethenny responded to Heather calling her a 'know it all'.  She turned it around, embraced it and said 'maybe I am'.  

LOL well that's one way to defend the use of such a nasty and ill used word. So a little history lesson - slut and whore creates an implication of loose morals - who gets to define 'loose morals' or what 'promiscuity' is? They are in fact subjective terms where the accuser is using their own beliefs  as the standard to which gives them allowance to shame someone else.  Polygamy is not considered moral by many people's standards yet there are cultures and religions that allow it. Would you turn to someone within that culture and faith and call her a slut or a whore because she has relations with more than one man? And if she were offended, would you say 'well if you aren't a slut and you're happy with your life why don't you just be empowered by the word and own it? No, how about you just not say it. Because the onus is not on the shamee to reinvent the dictionary or history. When you use the word with the intent to hurt, insult and shame someone, reinvention or not, you're still an asshole. The onus is not on Luann to own the word because she's confident in herself and happy with her lifestyle. While it's fine if someone choose to empower the word (which is a facade anyway because of the subjectivity of the term), it is just as okay for someone to choose not to embrace such terminology being used against them.

Edited June 3, 2016 by RHJunkie

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

1 hour ago, izabella said:

But why was it necessary for Sonja to clarify, for the tv viewers, ANYTHING about that guy and whether Lu had sex with him or not?  It's none of her fucking business, and wasn't relevant to anything.  She did it to embarrass and/or humiliate Lu, that's it. 

 

I think in part it is because Luann has poked fun at/outed Sonja for her bedroom escapades in the past, like "Sonja young" to Carole last season and all the other HWs doing it to Sonja over the years/seasons. Maybe Sonja just wanted it know that she isn't the only one that has an active sex life. LOL

[Yours Truly]

35 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

 

 

Whether or not she slept with Rey wasn't the point at issue though.  Sonja wasn't clarifying sex or no sex or if he was the Ibiza guy or each woman's definition of the word lover, Lu voluntarily confirmed those.    She was highlighting the stupidity of Lu lying about it.  

Sonja: Just on a lark I said, he's the Ibiza guy.

Lu: Right, he's the Ibiza guy.  He started acting crazy so I didn't want anything to do with him after that.

Sonja: I thought you said it was a one night stand?  so you saw him after that

Lu:  yeah well a couple of times 

To be clear, I don't care about this exchange.  The whole conversation, including who and how many Lu entertains?  none of my business.   That said, I'd do the same thing not because I'm trying to "gotcha" my girlfriend but if she just made the decision to tell it, why lie about any of it?  If it makes her uncomfortable, say I think this conversation is uncool, so I'd rather not.  Does making him a one night stand make her sound like someone with better judgment than a person who continues to see someone who they think is acting crazy?   At that point it's not about her love life but inventing debateably unflattering details about something we don't have to discuss to begin with is plain silly.   

What we have learned here is, (1) it is absolutely nobody's business, (2) Lu is terrible at answering or not answering and uncomfortable question, she can exercise the option of politely invoking her 5th amendment rights (3) instead, she answers the question clumsily by responding with something that may put a positive spin on it (4) the problem with that is she hasn't figured out how to think quickly enough to either remember the lie she's telling or invent another one that properly covers it.    So yeah basically we shouldn't know any of this about her because it's not our damb business, but once she decides to say it, she makes what no one should care about worse by *softening* the details.    It's probably the only time I'll ever invoke Nancy Reagan.  Just say no Lu.

Yupper to the bolded.

 Lu didn't know what to describe it as because she's not the type to categorize like Sonja does with her Tuesdays and Thursday so she just defaulted to one night stand. Right in the moment, who the hell has the exact terminology to use when these specifics come up. Who speaks in such specifics. I think Lu sounds like she lies all the time because she doesn't want to be literal with the details and it's not in the category of significant relations so she just says what seems to be the closest way to describe it. Hell I'd have trouble to in the moment. Some situations can't be summed up with one word or one specific phrase so you just improve. Problem is the women call Lu's improvising as lieing.  I do maintain that Lu's claim that he wasn't a lover stemmed from her trying to be clear that he wasn't a current or really recent lover and then the explanation she gave about what she considered a lover was on the fly cause by then I think she truly forgot the real reason why she corrected Sonja in the first place so I think even she was trying to figure out an explanation. Which made it sound worse and since the women seem to be putting her in these positions more and more she's going to look like she's dancing around stuff cause well she is. I don't think she's all that against being open it's just that she sees where they plan on taking it if and when the get her to open those doors to those conversations where I truly believe they will run with it. I mean look at them now. She doesn't give them much and so they just run with whatever.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Yours Truly

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I also thought it was in a tweet but......as we all just found out it was at a kids charity event, which is even worse IMO, and Luann basically said that she probably did say it at the kids charity event. Sooooo, even though I think Carole should have dropped the attitude, Luann is guilty as charged and owes her, Carole, a giant, public apology.

See I don't think we found that out because I don't find Carole a reliable narrator and I can't believe there were no articles from witnesses at the event. Tons of things get spilled at public events whether they were filmed or not and Carole never mentioned it being at a public event until she said it to Jules even though she previously brought it up before and in interviews.

[shoegal]

13 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

The onus is not on Luann to own the word because she's confident in herself and happy with her lifestyle. While it's fine if someone choose to empower the word (which is a facade anyway because of the subjectivity of the term), it is just as okay for someone to choose not to embrace such terminology being used against them.

(bolding mine)

That's what I'm saying.  How LuAnn responds is her choice, I never said otherwise. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by shoegal

[lunastartron]

53 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I agree it's a histrionic statement, which I personally think a histrionic response is appropriate.  Did Bethenny literally mean that LuAnn fucks everyone in the world?  No.  Did she mean that LuAnn fucks a lot of guys, yes.  Does LuAnn fuck a lot of guys?  It seems so. 

I don't follow your logic; this thread of discourse seems almost tautological to me.

You first asked, to paraphrase, what's wrong with being a slut if you're a sexually free? As has been noted upthread by other posters, what's wrong with the use of the term "slut" is that it is a word leveraged expressly in the interests of moral judgment, condemnation, derision, etc. Ergo, there's not a damn thing wrong with fucking a lot of guys. There is plenty patriarchal and misogynistic about explicitly trying to humiliate a woman, in whatever lexicon, on national television because enjoys having sex with a lot of dudes. Bethenny was not broaching the subject of LuAnn's sexual appetites as a statement of fact but rather as a method of verbal assault and debasement.

Sexual liberation is not compulsorily synonymous with absolute transparency. If Kim Kardashian wants to take a bath in Ray J's ejaculation for her own pleasure or Paris Hilton wants to take Rick Solomon's cock, that doesn't mean that recording those acts and distributing them is okay because, "hey, if they're sexually free and autonomous, they shouldn't feel embarrassed about having the sexual behavior in which they indulge put on blast!" (I realize these two women do not necessarily represent the best examples here since many believe either or both peddled said videographic performances themselves so insert Jennifer Lawrence, Teresa Palmer, Hope Solo, and/or any other female celebrity who found their private selfies wallpapered over the Internet)

If LuAnn is partly and/or secretly embarrassed about her own libido and carnal veracity, then that's arguably attributable at least in part to a societal structure that celebrates and reinforces deranged, woman-hating performances like that which Bethenny just delivered.

You yourself wrote that Carole wasn't incorrect when she called LuAnn "racist" for describing *herself* and *her own dad* as "Indian," but yet it's an accurate litmus test of a woman's degree of authentic sexual liberation if she embraces and reclaims being called a "slut" and "whore" in a clearly malicious context by a demented co-worker?

Analogies outside the parameters of racial and sexual epithets don't work either, imo. If someone finally took the gloves off with Bethenny and got as nasty with her as she has a propensity to be with everyone else and declared, "neither your mother, father, nor your husband wanted you," that would be as true as "you sleep with everyone!" is of LuAnn. In fact, didn't Ramona actually say something proximate during their Brooklyn Bridge walk? And Bethenny broke down and cried. So I guess she's not the strong, independent, contemporary liberated urban woman that she projects because she cried at her colleague's viciousness?

Edited June 3, 2016 by lunastartron

[jinjer]

There is nothing on Luann's or Carole's Twitters from Luann about Carole in September or October before Luann started filming.  People tweet to Carole about the reunion and probably the lost scenes episode about how mean Luann is to Carole and she replies to them.  

There are no pedophile comments on Twitter at least not before they started filming this season.  I am sure we would have all recognized the spelling error.  I wonder if the Countess was drinking beer from a bottle at the children's charity event when she made the comment.  Ramona overheard it, so it makes me wonder if Luann really said it at all.  I could see her saying, "He's young enough to be her child." And Ramona wrapping her ability to mis-tell a story into, "She said you were a pedophile."

Their social media is revealing to some extent.  Actually Luann's social media is like her show persona.  She just keeps moving on.  Bethenny is full of shit and aggressive and really pandering for attention/adulation.  Carole really is the most surprising.  She is very thin-skinned.  She has all sorts of backbone and biting pettiness.  I would like to see more of that train wreck on the show.  Dorinda is clearly drunk when she tweets.  Ramona is all sorts of calculating and boring.  Sonja is kind of fun.  

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

5 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

See I don't think we found that out because I don't find Carole a reliable narrator and I can't believe there were no articles from witnesses at the event. Tons of things get spilled at public events whether they were filmed or not and Carole never mentioned it being at a public event until she said it to Jules even though she previously brought it up before and in interviews.

 

I disagree. Something bad happened after the reunion last season and had this been a lie, Luann would have said that to Ramona, not done a lame text apology like she in fact did. Also, just because it didn't make the press, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[FamilyVan]

I do not get the significance to the title - anyone??

[shoegal]

Here's the deal. I don't think Bethenny thinks there is anything wrong with fucking a lot of guys, she herself has stated she has fucked a lot of guys. If LuAnn is fucking a lot of guys and sees nothing wrong with it, then why can't she say 'hell yeah, I fuck a lot of guys!'.  The key to slut shaming is that you feel there is something ashamed of for being slutty.  If you don't think there is anything wrong with being slutty, it's like water off a duck's back.  You can agree or not agree, but that's what I think.

[izabella]

Bethy wouldn't like it if other people were screaming in her face that she fucks everyone and yelling that she's a plastic fuck doll and pointing fingers at her that she's a whore and that she needs to own it on camera.  She couldn't handle it when Heather asked her how often she picks Brynn up from school.

Edited June 3, 2016 by izabella

[lunastartron]

4 minutes ago, FamilyVan said:

I do not get the significance to the title - anyone??

August: Osage County. The play by Tracey Letts adapted into the film starring Meryl Streep and Julia Roberts about a family gathering-turned-blowup.

Edited June 3, 2016 by lunastartron

[biakbiak]

Just now, WireWrap said:

I disagree. Something bad happened after the reunion last season and had this been a lie, Luann would have said that to Ramona, not done a lame text apology like she in fact did. Also, just because it didn't make the press, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Ramona never said to Luann that she shouted it at a Children's Charity event, Carole never even said that to Ramona. Ramona is a freaking idiot she told Luann to text exactly what Carole said would have been a slightly funny invite at the time of the invite.  Again, it's been discussed that was a tweet on here for months, it's Carole's latest embellishment said only in passing to Jules that I find suspect.

But clearly you don't agree so I will shur up.

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Here's the deal. I don't think Bethenny thinks there is anything wrong with fucking a lot of guys, she herself has stated she has fucked a lot of guys. If LuAnn is fucking a lot of guys and sees nothing wrong with it, then why can't she say 'hell yeah, I fuck a lot of guys!'.  The key to slut shaming is that you feel there is something ashamed of for being slutty.  If you don't think there is anything wrong with being slutty, it's like water off a duck's back.  You can agree or not agree, but that's what I think.

I disagree, she does think it is a problem or she wouldn't have used it as a weapon against Luann to begin with. She called Luann "A Plastic F Doll" for Pete's sake and bragged about saying it on her radio show to Andy. And, she, Bethenny, shares nothing about her private life, nothing.

[RHJunkie]

16 minutes ago, shoegal said:

(bolding mine)

That's what I'm saying.  How LuAnn responds is her choice, I never said otherwise. 

You did say otherwise actually. You said that if someone truly is not embarrassed by what they do or their lifestyle then they shouldn't be offended/they should embrace the term. You are making an implication about the person who chooses to take offense to what was intended to be offensive and frankly it projects as an archaic rationale. You are appropriating this notion that when the dominant male, dominant white culture, etc.labels you, if you are truly not what they claim you to be, then take their insults and empower them. LOL. You are appropriating the notion that a proud minority should reinvent everything into a positive instead of expecting that the dominant faction stop acting like entitled asshats. How Luann responds or feels is her choice (to some degree) but because she takes offense to an insult that was meant to be offensive, doesn't mean that she is ashamed. Well for one, it could just as easily mean that she is not guilty of the slandering accusation that is being hurled at her.

By many standards, it is immoral to have sex before marriage and sexual relations should be only between a man and a woman. Now, if you are (or hypothetically speaking) a mother, and your 25 year old daughter is unmarried, been in three long term relationships where she has had sex with 3 men, and someone used the above standard to label her a slut, would you say 'sweetie, you have nothing to be embarrassed about. Own it and tell them, so what if I'm a slut?'

Edited June 3, 2016 by RHJunkie

[lunastartron]

6 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Here's the deal. I don't think Bethenny thinks there is anything wrong with fucking a lot of guys, she herself has stated she has fucked a lot of guys. If LuAnn is fucking a lot of guys and sees nothing wrong with it, then why can't she say 'hell yeah, I fuck a lot of guys!'.  The key to slut shaming is that you feel there is something ashamed of for being slutty.  If you don't think there is anything wrong with being slutty, it's like water off a duck's back.  You can agree or not agree, but that's what I think.

I'm confused why someone who doesn't think there is anything wrong with hitting it with numerous men would literally shriek at the top of her lungs "You're a slut!!!" and "Whore!!!"

I guess Donald Trump had it right when he argued that telling a contestant on his business show that she'd make a pretty picture "on her knees" is a sign of cherishing women.

[Yours Truly]

How about Beth was just straight up fucked up for that bullshit rant. Nobody deserves that type of treatment not even Lu.

Add that it's a reoccuring theme with Beth and there's just no way to excuse it, rationalize it or condone and doing backflips trying to UNDERSTAND where she's coming from doesn't change it either.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Yours Truly

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Ramona never said to Luann that she shouted it at a Children's Charity event, Carole never even said that to Ramona. Ramona is a freaking idiot she told Luann to text exactly what Carole said would have been a slightly funny invite at the time of the invite.  Again, it's been discussed that was a tweet on here for months, it's Carole's latest embellishment said only in passing to Jules that I find suspect.

But clearly you don't agree so I will shur up.

I thought Ramona said Luann said it "loudly", did she actually say that Luann "shouted" it? For me it wouldn't matter if Luann shouted it or said it in her normal speaking voice, that is an awful accusation to make period. Is it possible that Carole is exaggerating how Luann said it (shouting/loud/normal voice), very possible, but I have no doubts that Luann did in fact say it a children's charity event and had it been me she said it about, I would be furious as well.

I do agree to disagree though but have enjoyed getting your perspective on it.  

[biakbiak]

29 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Here's the deal. I don't think Bethenny thinks there is anything wrong with fucking a lot of guys, she herself has stated she has fucked a lot of guys. If LuAnn is fucking a lot of guys and sees nothing wrong with it, then why can't she say 'hell yeah, I fuck a lot of guys!'.  The key to slut shaming is that you feel there is something ashamed of for being slutty.  If you don't think there is anything wrong with being slutty, it's like water off a duck's back.  You can agree or not agree, but that's what I think.

Even Bethenny thought there was something wrong with the language she threw out, she didn't say "I am a whore!" when she was rationalizing her outburst even though she also called Luann that.

Edited June 3, 2016 by biakbiak

[biakbiak]

34 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I thought Ramona said Luann said it "loudly", did she actually say that Luann "shouted" it? For me it wouldn't matter if Luann shouted it or said it in her normal speaking voice, that is an awful accusation to make period. Is it possible that Carole is exaggerating how Luann said it (shouting/loud/normal voice), very possible, but I have no doubts that Luann did in fact say it a children's charity event and had it been me she said it about, I would be furious as well.

I do agree to disagree though but have enjoyed getting your perspective on it.  

Ramona never said Luann said anything at any volume at a Children's Charity event, she simply said that Carole was upset that Luann called her a pedophile she doesn't mention any context at any time.  THe only person that used the phrase Children's Charity event was Carole and she only said it to Jules and Carole used the word "screamed." 

I mean I think it's stupid and ridiculous for Luann to say such a thing in a tweet but I just am not buying what Carole is selling with this latest twist.

Etb I just went and double checked.

Edited June 3, 2016 by biakbiak

[ryebread]

20 minutes ago, izabella said:

Bethy wouldn't like it if other people were screaming in her face that she fucks everyone and yelling that she's a plastic fuck doll and pointing fingers at her that she's a whore and that she needs to own it on camera.  She couldn't handle it when Heather asked her how often she picks Brynn up from school.

Omg.  The end. 

Minds like steel traps up here in the PTV. 

[Neurochick]

She probably never picks Brynn up, I bet the nanny picks her up 99.9% of the time. 

[notnowimbusy]

If anyone dared mention some rumor they heard about Bethenney's sex life, she would go completely ballistic - screaming at the top of her lungs that her personal life is off-limits because she's in the middle of a custody battle. . . . Unless it's a compliment, same is true for her business.   But, that has never stopped B from commenting on every detail of everyone elses life, loves and homes.  She hold herself above every one of the women.   Remember she can't stand BS - well, unless it's her BS.  

[njbchlover]

4 hours ago, izabella said:

I am pretty clear on the fact that Bethenny was calling Lu a whore, a WHORE, a whore!  If she meant that affectionately or admiringly or even tongue-in-cheek, she didn't get her point across, lol.  There was no doubt she was trying to humiliate, embarrass and shame Luann for being a WHORE, WHORE, WHORE.

Well, I guess we have to at least give Bethenny some credit for not calling Luann a "prostitution whore" and flipping Dorinda's dining room table!!   :-)

[bosawks]

21 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

She probably never picks Brynn up, I bet the nanny picks her up 99.9% of the time. 

If Beth drives like she talks that's probably not the worst thing in the world.

Edited June 3, 2016 by bosawks

[njbchlover]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I meant to ask is this a phrase and WTF does it mean? Is luann Santa Claus? Is Santa a whore?

Also, Bethanny wanting to sleep with a woman is on her bucket list but she can't go down on a women because they smell bad. Girl if your vagina smells bad there is probably something wrong with your health.

I'm thinking the comment "I don't care if you're the biggest whore in Macy's window" is right up there with "the blind leading the deaf" in Bethenny-isms.  It was said to sound bitchy-cute, clever and throw off Luann, but another one that fell flat.  

Bethenny needs to be careful - her Bethenny-isms are coming very close to Ramona-isms' territory.

I think Bethenny said she wouldn't go down on a woman because she is allergic to fish, so alluding to the fact that another woman's private area would/could smell bad.  It was a very snarky but nasty putdown of other women, imo.  But, by saying what she said, it also goes to show that Bethenny is selfish when it comes to sex or lovemaking, in my opinion.  She wants the prize (orgasm), but she's not willing to reciprocate.

Edited June 3, 2016 by njbchlover

[njbchlover]

3 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Because "fucking everyone" is such a bullshit statement meant to insult.  Sexually free doesn't mean you fuck everything that moves with absolutely no discernment.  

See - this is where I have a problem, and it's probably just me.  I have a problem with using the word "fuck" when referring to the act of having sex with someone.  To me, it sounds more base, or dirty, if you will.  I know it's just a word, but it still bothers me when I hear women (or men, for that matter), supposedly with some type of social manners and class, use that word in that context.  I have no problem with saying or hearing "WTF" or "you're a fucking pain in the ass", or any other way the word can be used, but it just sounds trashy and dirty in the manner that Bethenny used it in this situation.

[ryebread]

4 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

I'm thinking the comment "I don't care if you're the biggest whore in Macy's window" is right up there with "the blind leading the deaf" in Bethenny-isms.  It was said to sound bitchy-cute, clever and throw off Luann, but another one that fell flat.  

Also - Carole coming into Dorinda's house saying she heard Bethenny arguing with a man...oops, she meant "LuMan" was not funny. It was stale, bordering on infantile.

She got a laugh out of it 3 seasons ago but it is so 2012. 

In addition to her not being able to speak up in real time and rarely having anything clever to say unless it's muuuuch later in a TH or her blog, for me this is further evidence that Carole is a bit of a dolt.

Or else she really IS up Bethenny's azz and is going to start recycling things that were once clever 3, 5 or 7 years ago.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

I'm thinking the comment "I don't care if you're the biggest whore in Macy's window" is right up there with "the blind leading the deaf" in Bethenny-isms.  It was said to sound bitchy-cute, clever and throw off Luann, but another one that fell flat.  

Bethenny needs to be careful - her Bethenny-isms are coming very close to Ramona-isms' territory.

I think Bethenny said she wouldn't go down on a woman because she is allergic to fish, so alluding to the fact that another woman's private area would/could smell bad.  It was a very snarky but nasty putdown of other women, imo.  But, by saying what she said, it also goes to show that Bethenny is selfish when it comes to sex or lovemaking, in my opinion.  She wants the prize (orgasm), but she's not willing to reciprocate.

Oh I know she meant that other women smell bad, I just assumed she was projecting her own vaginal issues on these hypothetical women. Though I am sort of surprised that no of the trio B/J/C claimed to have hooked up with a woman in college. They all seem like the type to make that claim but never actually did.

[MaryTylerMoore]

23 hours ago, phoenix780 said:

Can I shame her for that? Because I feel like we should all have a line that prevents us from doing what she did on camera. Just...some kind of limits, y'know, on what you'll do for airtime. Bikini waxes, medical procedures... They should stay unshown, imho, absent some compelling educational reason. 

Eh as someone approaching menopause and still sexually active I think certain medical procedures could be deemed educational. Actually if Sonja had good people advising her she could turn her Sexy J into a sex-education video series on what to expect during pre/post menopause. I'm sure there's a natural lube she could develop a la Gracie & Frankie that would be a hit since really her freedom with her sexuality is what made her popular.

[Umbelina]

Luann was loaded for bear with Bethenny, starting with the hair, then moving swiftly to "we were together all the time this summer!" and then on to the old chestnut, "I came up with Skinnygirl's name."

Bethenny, for whatever reasons, past and present, has had it with her and unleashed years of anger.

The funny thing was, when Bethenny said "you sleep with everyone!" if only Luann really did show a bit of class, and calmly responded, "That is not true, and even if it was true, what business is it of yours or anyone else?"  She would have nailed it.  Of course, the natural response is Luann's atrocious behavior with Carole, but still.

I don't think any of them care who Luann sleeps with, or how often, except perhaps that prude Ramona.  I think they are fed up with the hypocrisy of the two Luann's.  Also, they all kind of went along with those lies, or at least Ramona, Sonja, and Bethenny did, for a long time.

As for why Bethenny doesn't want to share the name of who she is seeing?  I hardly think in any universe it's because she's worried Luann might steal him, in spite of the "I'm next!" comment which I think did happen, and honestly was kind of cute. 

It's because Bethenny doesn't want anyone's name dragged through the mud, so she's careful about what she says and does on camera.  Luann should make note of that before she brings home random married guys on the show trips.

[sasha206]

9 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Also - Carole coming into Dorinda's house saying she heard Bethenny arguing with a man...oops, she meant "LuMan" was not funny. It was stale, bordering on infantile.

She got a laugh out of it 3 seasons ago but it is so 2012. 

 

And really, is that even acceptable in this day?  See poster from Vulture recap:  

 

Gwynneth20 hours ago

@Indiana_Frusk  The androgyny shaming has seriously declined on this board as commenters have seemed to become more socially conscious of how far reaching the damage of that can be. I think someone here coined the Luman nickname. Even though Luan doesn't care at all, the idea that B or Carole would support public derision of people who consider themselves gender fluid is not something I wanna stand behind. I joined the bandwagon a few years ago calling her Luman for a minute, but re-evaluated my own values when invited to see how mean that was & realized it's just not consistent w/ my values. B & C are surprising me a lot this season w/ how thoughtless and inconsiderate they are being (first to Jules and now to the trans community). Carole actually said Luman last night on national tv.

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

I thought that too.  Not that it excuses her dumping on Luann, because she's an adult and should know better.

Plus it was the holidays, and she's sharing Brinn (sp?).  Isn't B Jewish?  Anyone know if Jason gets Christmas each year?  Lord, it would be nice for that child to have a normal family holiday.

Bethenny was born Jewish.  She went to a Catholic school and Bryn was baptized Catholic.  I believe Bethenny argued for a non-family Christmas for Bryn electing to spend holidays with the jet set-St. Barth's.  At least she did on her show with Jason. I believe Jason gets equal time at the holidays.  In her blog Bethenny claims she very tired and stressed from work.  The solution seems easy enough slow down.

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, shoegal said:

I agree it's a histrionic statement, which I personally think a histrionic response is appropriate.  Did Bethenny literally mean that LuAnn fucks everyone in the world?  No.  Did she mean that LuAnn fucks a lot of guys, yes.  Does LuAnn fuck a lot of guys?  It seems so. 

According to Bethenny she was rallying against hypocrisy.  She employed two things in her rant against hypocrisy she exaggerated (Luann's sex life) and she called her names.  This started out why I don't want to be like you over a hairstyle.  I think Luann was employing sarcasm, as Bethenny is famous for doing, to deride the Sonja stuff.   

Bethenny wasn't whipped up into a hysterical frenzy because of anything Luann said she went on the offensive.  lastly, if you are trying to get your point across and you are coming from a good place-don't yell at someone.  She accused Luann of talking over her and for the most part Luann could not get a word in edgewise.  Bethenny not containing her anger is a weakness not a strength.  There was nothing during the argument worth making yourself look like a screaming loon.

It doesn't make Luann a hypocrite or a liar for not responding to Bethenny's claims of Luann "having fucked everyone".  It makes Luann reasonable to respond to the rantings of a very angry woman.  When something is ridiculous, you ignore, don't defend. 

Even calm and outside the presence of Luann, Bethenny asserts she is second only to Luann in the number of sexual partners to deflect from her verbal diarrhea and deflect her slut shaming.  How could Bethenny possibly know this information about Luann's sexual partners?  You can't say a person isn't being honest about their sex life we you invent wild tales about them.  After the hysteria she is now claiming Luann was with dozens of men over the summer.  Really Bethenny let's see the list.  because in the same blog she claims she was with Luann very little over the summer.

[biakbiak]

I also forgot to note when the initial fight died down she then moved to the same side of the table as Luann to loudly "whisper" to Ramona about Luann. It's like the fourth time this season she has talked shit about someone when she cleary knew they could hear her because they were right next to her, it is so passive-aggressive.

Edited June 3, 2016 by biakbiak

[Diane Mars]

Regarding Luann, I really think they're jealous... But they still can't put a name on it... How can I explain...

Luann is really "free", as a woman, regarding her sex life and who she is... For the ones who follow RHOBH, Luann is Erika Girardi AND Erika Jane in one and same person, BUT without any need of any avatar to be and own who she is... And that's, for me, the real and only for of freedom...

[KungFuBunny]

This was awesome.

It could have been more awesome if we saw Carole pick up a lidded deli coffee cup and scooped up Coco's shit...and then put it on Dorinda's kitchen counter...then Jules would wander in and lick the lid. Well, they're still in the Berkshires next week so maybe it'll still happen..one can hope. Maybe Jules will throw her shiddy shoes in the ice bucket and chant while she rinses them

I love the fact that this group gets in each others faces. Yes they talk behind each others backs in their individual TH shots but they at least have no problems with confrontations.

I think Bethenny is still mad at Luann because she didn't pay for the surf lessons from their first season.

I think Sonya is still mad at Luanne for the Harry debacle.

I think Luanne is still mad at Ramona for making comments about Victoria's drunken escapades and her YouTube videos.

I think Ramona is still pissed at Luanne for the psychic and for the Jacques blind tasting wine test.

All of these women are liars, they each want to portray and image on screen that is NOT real. I don't think any of these women are truly friends...just coworkers. Majority of the time they spend together is while filming or when they are out and about doing press for Bravo.

If Ramona and Dorinda were truly friends then Dorinda would have known that she dated Tom. If Sonya and Luanne were really friends then Luanne would have known Sonya was with Tom at one point.

I think Dorinda is on something besides being a mean drunk. There are times she goes into severe paranoia bouts when her daughter, John or her mom is mentioned. Luanne could have said your mom made you a lovely cake. Dorinda still would have had a melt down and she would justify it by saying Luanne said it in a certain tone.

Carole seemed attractive when she was dating Russ, more put together and happy. Now with Adam....she seems unkempt...and smelly. The Smelly Vegan should be the title of his cookbook.

[MaryTylerMoore]

6 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Obfusicating it with "dating," "having fun" seems like the most respectful thing you could do for someone you've had intimate relations with.

I believe "euphemism" is the word you're all looking for. I agree with Yours Truly in that Lu tries to be precise in her characterization of her encounters because her behavior and everything she says is scrutinized. Lovers and fuck buddies are two different things; Sonja knows that, but her only way to get back in with the group is to report on Lu's sexual activities. Did Lu tell Ramona about Ibiza or did Sonja? I think Lu would have done herself a favor if she forked over the cash for hotels/sublet instead of giving Sonja fodder to get back in with the mean girls.

I wonder if Bethany's behavior towards Lu is a replay of Bethany's father/stepfather with her mother. They say there was a lot of fighting and B's mom always had men around. Whether true or not I'm sure it will be the excuse at the reunion for why she so viciously went after Luann.

Can't find the post because the board's been moving fast but not slut shaming or calling people whores isn't PC it's growth. For two long we let men, the church and weird puritans define our behavior it very strict terms just because we're women. That is no longer to be tolerated in a modern society--thank Goddess!

ETA: Why didn't Dorinda jump in to say she introduced Lu and Tom so back that shit up.

Edited June 3, 2016 by MaryTylerMoore

[sasha206]

36 minutes ago, MaryTylerMoore said:

I believe "euphemism" is the word you're all looking for. I agree with Yours Truly in that Lu tries to be precise in her characterization of her encounters because her behavior and everything she says is scrutinized. Lovers and fuck buddies are two different things; Sonja knows that, but her only way to get back in with the group is to report on Lu's sexual activities. Did Lu tell Ramona about Ibiza or did Sonja? I think Lu would have done herself a favor if she forked over the cash for hotels/sublet instead of giving Sonja fodder to get back in with the mean girls.

I wonder if Bethany's behavior towards Lu is a replay of Bethany's father/stepfather with her mother. They say there was a lot of fighting and B's mom always had men around. Whether true or not I'm sure it will be the excuse at the reunion for why she so viciously went after Luann.

ETA: Why didn't Dorinda jump in to say she introduced Lu and Tom so back that shit up.

I used "obfuscating" because that's the word the original poster used.

[ElDosEquis]

Coming in from the other side of the aisle....

If methenny was a man, she would have got her nasty fucking ass kicked - more than once - for being a nasty fucking asshole.

Imagine having a romp with the 'skanky girl' and her not getting an "O"?

Oh hell no, I can only imagine what she'd say IF she was talking about her BFs to people. If she is THAT RUDE to someone she has no personal investment with, what does she say about the men she gets naked with?

She goes after people who won't return her nastiness - I'd pay money to see her try to mouth off to someone off the street - It would last about 10 seconds and she'd be trying to keep her ass outta the puddle of piss that lead up to the ass whupping.

Old Methenny Frankel should know that no matter what weight class you fight out of, there is someone else that can kick you miserable ass.