S06.E06: Blood Of My Blood

[J----av]

18 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Bit of a dull episode to be honest. Dany's speech at the end even with Drogon reappearing was just so basic. Her grand speeches are starting to lose a little effect to them.

Arya clearly was going to change her minds about the Faceless Man and saving Lady Crane sealed her fate. Plus side, the Waif isn't long for this world either.

Sam and Gilly should never get this amount of screen time. They're okay characters in small doses not big ones but I did like Sam's mother/sister, indifferent to his brother, hated his father etc.

Margaery seems to be completely swayed by the Faith and Jamie/Olenna were bested by them too due to Tommen's stupidity. Cersei seems a little too calm about the whole thing but at least they're picking up the Riverrun storyline.

Wasn't best pleased to see Walder Frey back but hopefully this means he's a goner soon though.

Bran and Meera's storyline picked up slightly with the visions of the Mad King and Benjen's reappearance but this was easily the weakest we've had this season, 6/10

 It was almost the exact same speech Drogo gave in season 1 but without the "i will rape their women and take their children as slaves"

[Oscirus]

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He didn't reject Cersie for "personal reasons" he was honestly in love with her, unlike Cersie who used him and was a selfish, egotist who maybe, once in a while gave a shit about her children, but mostly what power they would give her.  Jamie sacrificed everything for Cersei, his inheritance, a chance for a real family, all to stay and be with her during the disastrous marriage to Robert, and to protect her in Kings Landing.

So he was mad at her for personal reasons. Just because they were justified doesn't make those reasons any less personal.

As a matter of fact the major difference between show Jamie and Book Jamie is that Book Jamie knows of Cersei's affairs. If book Jamie know of them, he'd be more then willing to ignore  all of Cersei's negative qualitie.

Now if we're talking about a Lannister who got screwed over on screen, let's throw Kevan's (aka the world's worst kings hand according to tv) name into the ring. At the rate he's going, there's going to be no reason to kill him off, since he's essentially powerless.

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I am a terrible human being...I was amused because the only man who really has a reason to care that Tommen survive was just fired by said future victim.

I'm actually more amused that Tommen went from wanting to work with his mother to not giving a fuck about her in like 6 episodes. 

To be fair, the Sparrows have a lot invested in Tommen's well being since they can use him to push their agenda so he should be well protected.

[Ottis]

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It's easy to break things, so "smashing tropes" doesn't make me admire this self indulgent sad old man.  I DO just want this story over with, so I stand by "Go HBO!"  I've waded into his disgusting slime long enough, I want there to be a reason I did that, and I really doubt GRRM will ever provide one, because he'll be too busy discovering new candy to eat.   Or new ways to disgustingly torture people, which is apparently the best candy of all to him.

I don't feel GRRM quite as personally as you. I do agree, however, that he wanders, and that's one of the things about his work that tries my patience. Doesn't change my point though, that in his wandering, he often goes in different directions than conventional TV, and that makes for a better show. When Ned was killed in season one, it shocked viewers and nonviewers alike, and was the beginning of the perception of GoT as a show that might go anywhere, vs. down the same old TV paths like this season. After my original post yesterday, I found this article, which essentially says the same thing but better than me.

GoT Getting Worse

[GrailKing]

5 hours ago, J----av said:

Only Arya would ever say that

Knowing what's in the head of each Stark, not so sure that's going to be true.

[Constantinople]

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

As a matter of fact the major difference between show Jamie and Book Jamie is that Book Jamie knows of Cersei's affairs. If book Jamie know of them, he'd be more then willing to ignore  all of Cersei's negative qualitie.

How could TV Jaime not know of TV Cersei's affair with Lancel?  She walked naked from the High Sept to the Red Keep to atone for it.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Constantinople

[stagmania]

4 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

How could TV Jaime not know of TV Cersei's affair with Lancel?  She walked naked from the High Sept to the Red Keep to atone for it?

I wondered this myself, but so far the show has given no indication that he knows about it. Not only did we not get a scene where he explicitly found out what she was atoning for, there's also nothing in his actions to demonstrate a change, and he and Cersei seem closer than ever. Given the delay in his journey to Riverrun and the fact that they've already discussed Cersei's trial by combat and her plan to use The Mountain as her champion, they appear to be going another way with them that doesn't include any fallout from the affair.

[DigitalCount]

Maybe no one explained the nuance of the Walk to him, so he's as confused as we are. He was in Dorne when it actually occurred, so there's that.

[sacrebleu]

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How about the guys in the play getting the details of Tywin's death surprisingly right.  The only other witnesses (Shae and Tywin himself) died, and there's no way Tyrion went around telling folks exactly what he did and said.  I'm guessing they get HBO in Bravos.  

Well, I'm sure smallfolk gossip-- and who do you think had to clean up the privvy? Tywin-- shot with a crossbow arrow, on the toilet-- there's no way housekeeping is keeping quiet.

[GrailKing]

Wasn't it Tyrion who told him in the books, but in show Tyrion didn't mention it, as he's not there, so maybe Lancel will spill the beans before Jamie leaves.

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

I don't feel GRRM quite as personally as you. I do agree, however, that he wanders, and that's one of the things about his work that tries my patience. Doesn't change my point though, that in his wandering, he often goes in different directions than conventional TV, and that makes for a better show. When Ned was killed in season one, it shocked viewers and nonviewers alike, and was the beginning of the perception of GoT as a show that might go anywhere, vs. down the same old TV paths like this season. After my original post yesterday, I found this article, which essentially says the same thing but better than me.

GoT Getting Worse

I read that article but I can't really take it seriously.  One episode the writer doesn't like and then he proceeds to write a click-bait article about it.

Ned died on the show because he died in the books, which was a great twist.  But if Thrones was an original work, there's no way a show would kill off their number one hero/star like that.  HBO probably wouldn't have allowed it.  It was the fact that it was based on an adapted work that allowed that.

[lmsweb]

I think the show canon is that Cersei's walk of shame was because of Jamie, not Lancel. Didn't Jamie even say something to the High Sparrow about why didn't he have to do the same walk of shame that Cersei did?

I could be remembering that wrong. I mostly remember Jamie questioning why he didn't have to do one but Cersei did. 

[Ambrosefolly]

10 hours ago, Nanrad said:

Joffrey was batshit insane because that was how Cersei raised him in addition to being neglected by Robert. It's unfortunate and simply explain, but doesn't excuse his actions. Viserys was inbred, but he seemed more power hungry and unchecked for years, which is why it got progressively worse. 

Then shouldn't have Marcella and Tommen could have both been crazy? Robert probably neglected both of them and while Cersei did treat them differently than Joffrey, I don't it was completely different.

I concede that if only the Mad King and Rhager died (or just the Mad King), and his nephew (or even niece) was given the throne, maybe his inbreeding might have manifested in more eccentric, benign ways (but it would have manifested one way or another) instead of the laser focus to get home and get revenge on the people that wiped out his family and stole his birthright.

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, DigitalCount said:

Maybe no one explained the nuance of the Walk to him, so he's as confused as we are. He was in Dorne when it actually occurred, so there's that.

That's a good point.  It could be an I, Claudius situation where everyone was either afraid to tell a character the truth about a certain someone or assumed the character already knew.  That said, in I, Claudius, the character's ignorance was made clear to the viewers.  Upon reflection, apparently that hasn't been done here with Jaime.

[henripootel]

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Well, I'm sure smallfolk gossip-- and who do you think had to clean up the privvy? Tywin-- shot with a crossbow arrow, on the toilet-- there's no way housekeeping is keeping quiet.

They also got it right that Tyrion snuck in by himself, an unlikely detail given that he was under sentence of death and incarcerated.  And he armed himself and actually got to the unguarded Hand of the King personally - who'da thought that was even possible?  Even Tyrion found it hard to believe the secret passages exist, so are they now common knowledge all the way to Bravos?  

And they included Tyrion's 'Let's see if Tywin Lannister shits gold' quip.  Who told them that?  And is it now common knowledge that Tyrion fled across the Narrow Sea?  Allowing for theatrical windage, that play could count as 'previously on Game of Thrones ...'

Edited June 1, 2016 by henripootel

[FemmyV]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

GoT Getting Worse

This writer must have skipped seasons 4 & 5 altogether.

[Gertrude]

I thought Cersei's walk was because of Lancel, and her trial is because of Jaime. She admitted to Lancel, but not to Jaime or killing the King. That's why there still has to be a trial. Jaime has to know at this point - if they try to bring it up at this point I will throw a fit because ...what the hell, show?

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, sacrebleu said:

Well, I'm sure smallfolk gossip-- and who do you think had to clean up the privvy? Tywin-- shot with a crossbow arrow, on the toilet-- there's no way housekeeping is keeping quiet.

 

7 minutes ago, henripootel said:

They also got that Tyrion snuck in by himself, an unlikely detail - who'da thought that was even possible?  Even Tyrion found it hard to believe the secret passages exist, so are they now common knowledge all the way to Bravos?  

And they included Tyrion's 'Let's see if Tywin Lannister shits gold' quip.  Who told them that?  Allowing for theatrical windage, that play could count as 'previously on Game of Thrones ...'

The play portrays Tyrion as Cersei seems him, or even worse.  If you accept that Play Tyrion shot Tywin, sneaking in isn't a stretch particularly since those used to be Tyrion's rooms when he was acting Hand.  I would be suspicious if the play included Jaime breaking Tyrion out, but it didn't.  I also don't find it surprising that someone who wrote a play filled with belching and farting would think of the common jest that Tywin shits gold and put it in the mouth of the character who killed Tywin.

[DigitalCount]

11 minutes ago, henripootel said:

They also got that Tyrion snuck in by himself, an unlikely detail - who'da thought that was even possible?  Even Tyrion found it hard to believe the secret passages exist, so are they now common knowledge all the way to Bravos?  

And they included Tyrion's 'Let's see if Tywin Lannister shits gold' quip.  Who told them that?  Allowing for theatrical windage, that play could count as 'previously on Game of Thrones ...'

2 things:

How would one presume Tyrion, a convicted regicide, would sneak into Tywin's chambers without a secret passage, probably only one he could make it through because loldwarf?

Did the quip make it to the show when Tyrion was actually killing Tywin?

[henripootel]

7 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

 I also don't find it surprising that someone who wrote a play filled with belching and farting would think of the common jest that Tywin shits gold and put it in the mouth of the character who killed Tywin.

I agree that it's not impossible that they got all the details right, but they sure did get all the details right.  Plus belching and farting, of course, but it's a pretty accurate retelling of details no one else was privy to.  Somebody was privy to that privy.  

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How would one presume Tyrion, a convicted regicide, would sneak into Tywin's chambers without a secret passage, probably only one he could make it through because loldwarf?

Were I writing the panto, I think I'd have gone with either 'treachery' (Tyrion got help and wasn't alone) or 'magic' (he's an evil dwarf who can travel through walls, etc.).  Just sneaking right in sounds ... prosaic.  It's a panto and nobody really knows what happened, make it something interesting.

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Did the quip make it to the show when Tyrion was actually killing Tywin?

Not sure.  He certainly did in the book, at least part of his internal monologue.  So maybe the books are making their way to Bravos too.  They are avid traders.  

Edited June 1, 2016 by henripootel

[Athena]

1 hour ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I concede that if only the Mad King and Rhager died (or just the Mad King), and his nephew (or even niece) was given the throne, maybe his inbreeding might have manifested in more eccentric, benign ways (but it would have manifested one way or another) instead of the laser focus to get home and get revenge on the people that wiped out his family and stole his birthright.

Not so sure about Viserys being better even if his family hadn't been wiped out. Viserys was the first healthy child to come along in a long time and his father was incredibly paranoid about him to the point where he never allowed the baby to be alone with his mother or be touched by anyone. He kept him isolated from the rest of the family. I don't think this helped with Viserys mental state. Maybe if the Mad King died and his brother had raised him, he'd have a better chance. He was only 8 when he became exiled.

Genes are funny things as not all children of incest or inbreeding are "mad" or receive genetic disorders. It only increases the chance. For Joffrey and Viserys, they both had parents who were siblings, but their upbringing also fostered sociopathic behaviour. People who aren't inbred can also be sociopathic assholes too.

 

8 hours ago, J----av said:

 It was almost the exact same speech Drogo gave in season 1 but without the "i will rape their women and take their children as slaves"

In the behind scenes interviews, D&D admitted they loved that Drogo scene from S1 and redid it for Dany. I like Drogon on and all, but that speech felt unnecessary.  

[DigitalCount]

But as has been stated, it's ridiculous even in that context. Why would any of these people care about giving Dany her wedding present that was only Drogo's intention to give her to begin with? Oh, that's right, they're the unwashed brown people who worship Dany and exist only to give her random crap. Note to self, if I ever forget to give my wife an anniversary gift, I'll just make a bombastic speech and then promptly die, and she'll totally believe I always intended to give her dominion over the moon if only it hadn't been for that pesky blade through the ribs.

[Ottis]

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Ned died on the show because he died in the books, which was a great twist.  But if Thrones was an original work, there's no way a show would kill off their number one hero/star like that.  HBO probably wouldn't have allowed it.  It was the fact that it was based on an adapted work that allowed that.

Exactly. Which is where we are today, and why IMO Dany seems to have moved from potential crazy world ruler fated for worse to empowered underdog exiting the wilderness to defeat her enemies. If they now kill Dany, then I'll concede GoT is as good as ever.

I also didn't understand why that play seemed to be a farce, except for when the actress Arya targeted gave her speech. The play abruptly became serious, then went back to farting and belching. I get that we were supposed to see she was a good actor, however, a truly good actor would act within the confines of the play, not run off an Emmy reel in between fart segments. Another example of "TV writing."

[FemmyV]

2 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

Did the quip make it to the show when Tyrion was actually killing Tywin?

no

[Umbelina]

3 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Then shouldn't have Marcella and Tommen could have both been crazy? Robert probably neglected both of them and while Cersei did treat them differently than Joffrey, I don't it was completely different.

I concede that if only the Mad King and Rhager died (or just the Mad King), and his nephew (or even niece) was given the throne, maybe his inbreeding might have manifested in more eccentric, benign ways (but it would have manifested one way or another) instead of the laser focus to get home and get revenge on the people that wiped out his family and stole his birthright.

It's been a while since I read or re-read the books, and I doubt I will read them again, but it's my feeling that Cersei focused all of her attention on Joffrey, because he would be the King, and Cersei only cares about power.  The other children were not that important to Cersei, despite the show rewriting her into a loving mother, so they escaped most of her attention and thus, grew up sane.  ?  I think Uncle Tyrion spent more time with them than Cersei.

As far as the show "getting worse?"  Well, they are trying to end something that has no end in sight, just more loose ends emerging in the new chapters we've seen or heard about from WoW, and no, I'm not discussing them as I know the rules here, just in passing mentioning that none of them are moving this bloated tale to a conclusion.  HBO on the other hand, needs to honor it's contract with the viewers and if they start a show, they will finish it, one way or another.  That's something GRRM doesn't seem to give one fuck about doing, or at least far far down on his list of things to do.

That said, I did let some of my frustration about GRRM out yesterday, probably because I just read the details of his latest, and frankly?  G.A.W.D. shutupshutupshutupshutupshutup

So at the moment I'm more thrilled than ever that HBO is endeavoring to tie this mess together into some kind of an ending, and what's more, they are doing their best to make it happen the way GRRM said he wanted to do it.  Obviously, that will have to be in broad strokes, because they don't have the luxury of 20 extra seasons to include it all, especially when most of it is frankly, pointless indulgence.

This was supposed to be 3 books.  I wish it had been, and that GRRM had then gone back to tell his other stories in companion books.

ETA

To bring it back to this episode though, that's why I don't mind the way things move right along now, journeys that should take another season and a half happen over night, details are being wrapped up and condensed, and I just love that.  It's time.  Past time.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Umbelina

[sacrebleu]

I'm of the mind that the play was written by someone certainly Cersei-friendly. Robert was a buffoon who rebuffed his kids, Ned Stark was a power mad country-bumpkin who was angling for the throne. Joffrey wasn't a sadistic bastard and Tyrion was an amoral schemer. (The Tyrion part is true-- to an extent) But that play really makes Cersei look good.

 

it's great PR (if people think that is anything approaching an accurate depiction of events)

Edited June 1, 2016 by sacrebleu

[DigitalCount]

In fairness, Ned did admit to treason and attempted usurping at his "trial."

[J----av]

5 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Knowing what's in the head of each Stark, not so sure that's going to be true.

Well the show doesn't really let us see in the head of each Stark. We do know in the books that only Arya really thinks of Jon as her true brother

[Tikichick]

I don't measure how good a show is by how many main characters they are willing to kill.  That would be overplayed in a hurry.  I do appreciate twists and turns in the storytelling.  Based on his track record I suspect I will appreciate Martin's written words over the show's limited abilities to flesh out some of the subtle details I enjoy.  Some of his detours frustrate me, but I'm sure I'll feel differently when some of them pay off and I'll be more forgiving of the rest. 

6 minutes ago, J----av said:

Well the show doesn't really let us see in the head of each Stark. We do know in the books that only Arya really thinks of Jon as her true brother

Bran was fairly tight with Jon as well.  I believe Jon had more patience with the young ones trying to learn to fight and wield a sword, etcetera.

[J----av]

3 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I don't measure how good a show is by how many main characters they are willing to kill.  That would be overplayed in a hurry.  I do appreciate twists and turns in the storytelling.  Based on his track record I suspect I will appreciate Martin's written words over the show's limited abilities to flesh out some of the subtle details I enjoy.  Some of his detours frustrate me, but I'm sure I'll feel differently when some of them pay off and I'll be more forgiving of the rest. 

Bran was fairly tight with Jon as well.  I believe Jon had more patience with the young ones trying to learn to fight and wield a sword, etcetera.

Jon was tight with Robb too. I was just saying that Arya was the only one who really thought of him as a Stark equal and continues think of him that way. I can't see Sansa, Bran or Rickon being all "fuck all that, you will always be a Stark"

[Umbelina]

I also kind of chuckle at people being unhappy with Tyrion now that they are beyond the books in his tale.  Would they have preferred an entire season of drunk Tyrion, rowing or asking "Where do whores go?"

[WearyTraveler]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

That said, I did let some of my frustration about GRRM out yesterday, probably because I just read the details of his latest, and frankly?  G.A.W.D. shutupshutupshutupshutupshutup

What was his latest? The new chapter he read at that Con?

[Maximum Taco]

12 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

What was his latest? The new chapter he read at that Con?

I think it's the second Arianne chapter, he posted it on his website on May 10th. I can see why Umbelina would hate it, not much happens, aside from one reveal at the end which most people knew was coming. It's very much a "Travelogue of Westeros" chapter.  

Edited June 1, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[proserpina65]

On ‎05‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 6:50 PM, Umbelina said:

Oh, and that's the other thing about the damn pirates.  I don't care if they live on treeless islands or how long it would take them (decades no doubt) to build a fleet of 1000 ships.  If 1000 ships are to be?  I'd rather they just show up than watch GRRM forge every nail, and spend chapters felling trees, while wiping out villages to steal saws or enslave the much trod upon peasants to carry the logs to ships.  I don't need to read about each rudder being smoothed, or sail being sewn, let alone mixing the special paint or the urchins braiding the ropes.

No thanks.

Ships appear!  Fine with me, get this show on the road.

And you just GRRM would do exactly that, interspersed with descriptions of what they ate while breaking their fasts.  I love a lot of the man's writing, but he does get unnecessary wordy.

[Umbelina]

32 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

What was his latest? The new chapter he read at that Con?

Yes.

We aren't supposed to discuss details of unpublished work here.

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And you just GRRM would do exactly that, interspersed with descriptions of what they ate while breaking their fasts.  I love a lot of the man's writing, but he does get unnecessary wordy.

God yes!  Mixed in with rapes and murders of the peasants they steal from, probably burned shelters as well.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Umbelina

[Maximum Taco]

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yes.

That was merely boring.

Oh wait, is it the Euron/Aeron Greyjoy chapter? Oh god I heard that was just awful. Like now he's just trying way too hard to be awful now.

I heard about that, but didn't know it was that new. I really hope we don't have to suffer through that development on the show. I kind of actually like the show's Euron.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[Umbelina]

We need to take this to the spoiler thread if there is going to be more conversation.

[proserpina65]

6 hours ago, lmsweb said:

I think the show canon is that Cersei's walk of shame was because of Jamie, not Lancel. Didn't Jamie even say something to the High Sparrow about why didn't he have to do the same walk of shame that Cersei did?

I could be remembering that wrong. I mostly remember Jamie questioning why he didn't have to do one but Cersei did. 

Cersei's walk of shame was because she admitted to sleeping with Lancel, although she did deny being involved in Robert's murder.  During Jaime's conversation with the High Sparrow where he questioned why he didn't have to perform his own atonement, he specifically referenced kingslaying, kinslaying and releasing Tyrion from prison after the gods had judged him guilty during the trial by combat.  My interpretation is that the HS knows nothing concrete about the incest twins, even though there is plenty of common gossip on that front.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 5:36 PM, MadMouse said:

It's easy to dismiss Viserys mental problems on the inbreeding but people forget he was old enough to remember his family before the Rebellion and what happened to them. He was eight when it ended so he has memories of his brother, father, mother, niece and nephew all who were killed. And we know the stories of what happened to them have spread far and wide. The guy had every right to be angry and want blood. If you root for Arya, Jon or any of the Starks to reclaim their home and to get some revenge then you should be on Viserys side too.

He was probably irreparably damaged as a child, compounded by the in-breeding issue.  The mad king brutally raped his wife routinely, and he didn't allow her to hold Viserys due to his distrust regarding the multiple stillborn and newborn deaths.  Viserys would have had some memory of all of this dysfunction.  Then he was cared for by sycophants unwilling to challenge him on anything because they were aligned with him politically.

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 5:37 PM, Maximum Taco said:

It's possible that Rhaegar married Lyanna, but the question is who could prove that? Rhaegar's dead, Lyanna's dead, all of Aerys' Kingsguard is dead. I suppose Howland Reed could say something about what Ned/Lyanna told him, but that's still not the same as actually witnessing the marriage, as a Northern bannerman it could easily be seen as a ploy by him to get a Stark (or worse Stark Bastard) on the Iron Throne. I also suppose Bran could have a vision, but again, who's going to take that seriously? Even if anyone actually believed Bran has visions he has a pretty significant Jon Snow bias.

The reason for a public wedding is to leave no doubt that they said the words, and consummated the marriage afterward. If nobody can prove it did happen, it didn't happen, and he's still a bastard.

I suppose they could just invent a character "The Septon Who Married Them" or something, but that seems a little too neat and clean doesn't it?

Where is Howland Reed anyway?  Does he have a problem with his two children risking their lives (and one dying) in this journey with Bran?  I'm not going to blame it on Bran because Jojen really started the whole thing, but still. 

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Cersei's walk of shame was because she admitted to sleeping with Lancel, although she did deny being involved in Robert's murder.  During Jaime's conversation with the High Sparrow where he questioned why he didn't have to perform his own atonement, he specifically referenced kingslaying, kinslaying and releasing Tyrion from prison after the gods had judged him guilty during the trial by combat.  My interpretation is that the HS knows nothing concrete about the incest twins, even though there is plenty of common gossip on that front.

The High Sparrow managed to put himself in a position to seemingly control the throne without having to risk any fighting or use of forces.  If he kicks about the incest issue at this particular time there might be a serious push to remove Tommen from the throne by others.  Why should he want to risk Tommen being removed when it seems he can play him like a puppet at this point?

[kittykat]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I also kind of chuckle at people being unhappy with Tyrion now that they are beyond the books in his tale.  Would they have preferred an entire season of drunk Tyrion, rowing or asking "Where do whores go?"

This is one of the few deviations I'm happy with.  I remember when he asked that for like the 100th time in ADWD and just going "SHHHUUUUUUT UUUUUPPPP!"

 

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Cersei's walk of shame was because she admitted to sleeping with Lancel, although she did deny being involved in Robert's murder.  During Jaime's conversation with the High Sparrow where he questioned why he didn't have to perform his own atonement, he specifically referenced kingslaying, kinslaying and releasing Tyrion from prison after the gods had judged him guilty during the trial by combat.  My interpretation is that the HS knows nothing concrete about the incest twins, even though there is plenty of common gossip on that front.

That's my guess too.  Lancel straight up confessed his indiscretions which was proof enough to detain Cersei.  The incest and Robert's murder (denied yet true) are the charges going to trial.  And besides if Jaime's incest is revealed then Tommen's parentage might be questioned and his new holy alliance  compromised.

aaaand apparently Tikchick and I think alike.

Edited June 1, 2016 by kittykat

[WearyTraveler]

There's no need to guess.  That's how the show presented it.  Cersei was charged with incest for Lancel and Lancel only, and with the murder of King Robert.  She confessed to the incest (after she had been taken by the Sparrows and imprisoned) and paid for that crime with the walk of atonement.  However, since she denies killing Robert, there will be a trial by combat for that charge and that charge alone.

Her champion will be Mountainstein, the Sparrow's champion will be....

[morgankobi]

42 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

The High Sparrow managed to put himself in a position to seemingly control the throne without having to risk any fighting or use of forces.  If he kicks about the incest issue at this particular time there might be a serious push to remove Tommen from the throne by others.  Why should he want to risk Tommen being removed when it seems he can play him like a puppet at this point?

If the crown and church join forces, but then the crown is deemed illegitimate, that leaves the church in charge. 

[Tikichick]

59 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

There's no need to guess.  That's how the show presented it.  Cersei was charged with incest for Lancel and Lancel only, and with the murder of King Robert.  She confessed to the incest (after she had been taken by the Sparrows and imprisoned) and paid for that crime with the walk of atonement.  However, since she denies killing Robert, there will be a trial by combat for that charge and that charge alone.

Her champion will be Mountainstein, the Sparrow's champion will be....

Lancel seems a bit obvious.

 

58 minutes ago, morgankobi said:

If the crown and church join forces, but then the crown is deemed illegitimate, that leaves the church in charge. 

I wonder if the High Sparrow needs to borrow the Queen of Thorns' abacus to do that math?  Of course the lovely Margaery may attempt her own puppetry act with her beloved husband and suddenly it becomes algebra.

[Harald Hardrada]

58 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

There's no need to guess.  That's how the show presented it.  Cersei was charged with incest for Lancel and Lancel only, and with the murder of King Robert.  She confessed to the incest (after she had been taken by the Sparrows and imprisoned) and paid for that crime with the walk of atonement.  However, since she denies killing Robert, there will be a trial by combat for that charge and that charge alone.

Her champion will be Mountainstein, the Sparrow's champion will be....

What if High Sparrow choose the Kingslayer as his champion? that be a slap in the sack for the Lannisters.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Harald Hardrada

[WearyTraveler]

The chosen warrior has to accept to fight for the side that chose him, so, there's no point picking someone you know will never say yes.

===============================

Also, now that I think about it, the charge that the Faith brought on Cersei regarding Lancel was adultery.  I believe they withdrew the incest charges.

In any case, that "crime" is forgiven because she did the Walk.  And since she denies the murder charge, a trial must follow. She's in the Red Keep because she's in Westeros' equivalent to House Arrest.

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yes.

We aren't supposed to discuss details of unpublished work here.

God yes!  Mixed in with rapes and murders of the peasants they steal from, probably burned shelters as well.

According to the spoiler rules for book talks:

Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[GrailKing]

With that chapter out:

it does seem to answer questions or solutions by readers as to Euron's relationship with Damphair; and his other brothers.

[Raachel2008]

7 hours ago, J----av said:

Jon was tight with Robb too. I was just saying that Arya was the only one who really thought of him as a Stark equal and continues think of him that way. I can't see Sansa, Bran or Rickon being all "fuck all that, you will always be a Stark"

You are talking season 1 and since then a lot has happened. Season 1 Sansa wouldn't bat an eye at Jon, but season 6 Sansa already acknowledged that he is her brother, her father's son and a Stark. Arya has always seen Jon as her  brother, and it is clear that Bran feels the same. We don't know about Rickon, but then he has barely been on screen.

[Nanrad]

14 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Then shouldn't have Marcella and Tommen could have both been crazy? Robert probably neglected both of them and while Cersei did treat them differently than Joffrey, I don't it was completely different.

I concede that if only the Mad King and Rhager died (or just the Mad King), and his nephew (or even niece) was given the throne, maybe his inbreeding might have manifested in more eccentric, benign ways (but it would have manifested one way or another) instead of the laser focus to get home and get revenge on the people that wiped out his family and stole his birthright.

No. Just because they have the same parents doesn't necessarily mean that they were treated they same or perceive situations exactly the same. I have a twin. Everything my aunt said and did, she took to heart, where as I kanyeshurgged and went about my day. At the same time, I was more of a go with the flow type person where as she was more vocal about being disinterested in various things. This and other things influenced or relationships and perceptions of my aunt. That's why we can't assume they would've turned out exactly the same. Even then, being raised by the same parents doesn't guarantee similar behaviors or outlooks. Mine are vastly different from my siblings--my twin, who is the person closest to me. 

[Oscirus]

What's with this insistence in trying to make bigamy legal despite the fact that it hasn't been legal since the third king? As king of the North with Stark and Targeryan parents, if he chooses, Jon should be able to ascend to the throne. I'm pretty sure the public would willingly ignore the bastard stigma especially with the news of his deeds, and his reported bloodline.

Having some secret marriage ceremony happen just to legitimize Jon would be Soap opera level bad writing.