S05.E08: Episode 8

[wonderwoman]

23 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm confirmed in my first thought that if they just had to cut something, why not the bit about the wedding gown?  The girl just seemed so silly to me.  She had so many people doing so much for her, the midwives, her MIL, the special license from the Archbishop, the pretty flowered outfit someone had given her, but there she was complaining about not having a big white gown. "But will I feel like a bride?"  Lots of people got married in a nice dress or suit back then.  None of my friends or relatives, my mother, my aunt or me had a big white gown.  It's a nice thing if you happen to have lots of time and money, but it doesn't make you any more or less a bride.

I loved the idea of Sister Evangelina's dress being put to such good use. And re "But, will I feel like a bride," I didn't take that as complaining or whining, just a expression of what she grew up expecting: to be married in a white gown. Yet here she was: pregnant, thousands of miles from home, no family except of the mother-in-law she only just met. I found it wistful, and, yes, a  bit touching

Edited May 25, 2016 by wonderwoman
removed errant comma

[Beadie]

Cried again reading this. Can't believe how much meaning and life they put into one episode. Best cast on TV.

[Popples]

Oh, show, I can't deal with this. I didn't see this coming at all. I'll miss Sister Evangelina so much. Seeing so many people pay their respects and hearing the undertaker's story of his premature birth and how Sister Evangelina sat by his mother's side for a week, the tears would not stop flowing. I thought my heart would burst when Sister Monica Joan came out with her shoes, then they played Dean Martin "Goodnight Sweetheart", and I became an absolute mess. Sad Pam Ferris left, she's such an incredible actress.

I adored the moment when Phyllis comforted Trixie. She also had a moment when they were all sitting on the stairs after everyone heard the news and just let Barbara cry on her shoulder and she just stroked her head.  I want a Phyllis in my life.

I didn't recognize Rhoda until they called her and Susan (super cute baby!) back for their appointment. I couldn't understand why that woman was so determined to be all in her business about taking the blanket off. Then when the other mother said that she was really wanted a boy, I got Rhoda confused with Ruth, but then when Ruth showed up in the restaurant with Delia and Patsy, I remembered what happened to her baby.

I see Delia's mother put two and two together. I'm surprised she didn't cause a big scene, but I hated that she unapologetically put down Patsy's profession.

Grrr at PBS for cutting the scenes altering Sister Evangelina's wedding dress. As soon as she talked about how big it was and a very pregnant Noelle showed up, I figured it would be re-purposed for her. I have to say, I would really dislike giving birth during my wedding reception, but at least they gave her privacy; today everyone would whip out their phones and be too much in her business. I was pleasantly surprised at how welcoming Noelle's mother-in-law was. She wasn't happy with how the situation came about, but was very friendly and supportive nonetheless.

I wasn't able to watch this on Sunday night, but if I had and then watched Game of Thrones with

Spoiler

Hodor and Summer's deaths,

I would have been inconsolable for the rest of the night.

I don't think I've ever cried so much during a single episode of any show I've ever seen, I give it 11/10 tissue boxes. This was a really great season, and I may have to spring for the DVD. WHY WON'T YOU RECOGNIZE THIS SHOW EMMY AWARDS?!

And at least Chummy will be back next season! : )

[Gulftastic]

19 minutes ago, Popples said:

 

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19 minutes ago, Popples said:

 

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I don't think I've ever cried so much during a single episode of any show I've ever seen, I give it 11/10 tissue boxes. This was a really great season, and I may have to spring for the DVD. WHY WON'T YOU RECOGNIZE THIS SHOW EMMY AWARDS?!

 

BIB Damn right. The forelock tugging nonsense of Downton gets awards chucked at it left right and centre, whilst CTM remains unloved. It rivals Taitana Maslany's snubs for stupidity.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Gulftastic
it appeared twice over for some reason

[Driad]

42 minutes ago, Popples said:

I don't think I've ever cried so much during a single episode of any show I've ever seen, I give it 11/10 tissue boxes.

PBS should offer CTM tissue boxes in exchange for donations.  They would clean up, as it were.

[dcalley]

On 5/22/2016 at 9:37 PM, AuntiePam said:

Sad to see Ruby (?) wanting to take just one more pill.   What was she putting in her tea? 

Gin, and it was coffee. I haven't had gin in either tea or coffee, but coffee sounds like the worse idea to me, but maybe it masks the gin flavor a bit.

On 5/22/2016 at 10:55 PM, Portia said:

I absolutely adore the actress who plays Rhoda (Susan's mother). Love  her face; love her acting.

Yes, she's so pretty here.

On 5/23/2016 at 9:32 AM, lonestar said:

Dr. Turner quit smoking a couple of episodes ago. They made a big deal of it with the son.  Last night, he was smoking away.  Were they insinuating he started again because of the thalidomide prescribing?

As was mentioned, in a cut scene Shelagh noticed and got a look on her face but decided not to say anything. Interesting that the cigarettes were in such easy reach of Dr. Turner, though.

On 5/23/2016 at 9:33 AM, Al Lowe said:

If they did cut the (very small) moments of them remaking the dress, it's only a drag because there was a cute few seconds of Trixie working on the veil using Delia as a model.

I liked seeing the hand-crank sewing machine. Electric machines were available, but it makes sense that Nonnatus House would have somebody's old, donated hand-crank machine she got rid of when she upgraded.

I was unspoiled for the death but had gotten wind of a wedding. I was afraid it was Tom and Barbara's, so I was glad it wasn't.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/24/2016 at 8:43 PM, wonderwoman said:

I loved the idea of Sister Evangelina's dress being put to such good use. And re "But, will I feel like a bride," I didn't take that as complaining or whining, just a expression of what she grew up expecting: to be married in a white gown.

Remember, Sister Mary Cynthia said basically the same thing when the other nuns were reminiscing over their wedding gowns!  Not only had she dreamt when younger of marrying in the conventional way, but she had thought that she would get to wear a donated wedding gown when she took her vows.  To her disappointment, the Order's customs had changed and she merely wore her habit.  She completely understood Noelle's yearning to wear a beautiful white wedding gown.  She got to experience her dream vicariously through Noelle.

Edited May 26, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[MissLucas]

He, that reminds me of my dress for first communion. My sister had had her first communion pre-Vatican II when girls used to dress as little brides. My mother - a trained dressmaker - made a dress according to my sister's sketches out of beautiful white broderie anglaise.14 years later that sort of thing was no longer customary and we all had to wear drab beige linen robes like mini-monks. Girls could still wear flower wreaths but those were predominantly white and clashed horribly with the robes. I was highly miffed - needless to say I was not a very religious little girl. But show me the 8 year old girl who appreciates austerity over lace-work! (And I think boys were also not that happy to have to wear a robe instead of a tiny suit.) When Sister Mary Cynthia told about her disappointment I could definitely sympathize!

[JudyObscure]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 8:43 PM, wonderwoman said:

And re "But, will I feel like a bride," I didn't take that as complaining or whining, just a expression of what she grew up expecting: to be married in a white gown. Yet here she was: pregnant, thousands of miles from home, no family except of the mother-in-law she only just met. I found it wistful, and, yes, a  bit touching

As someone who married in an ordinary dress, far from my home, with no guests except two good friends, the whole sense of entitlement that the young women on TV have ("Say Yes to the dress,") seems like something recently invented to me and particularly anachronistic in this show.  This girl was so lucky.  Lucky her mother-in-law wasn't furious at her for "trapping," her son.  Lucky the boy didn't just abandon her as one of his "girl in  every port," that sailors felt was their due in those days.  Mostly she was lucky to have free medical care for her baby. We didn't in the U. S. when I had my baby in 1968 and we strained to make our monthly hospital payments for four years before we got the baby paid off.  We all grow up playing wedding in lace table cloths, just like we all grow up pretending to be ballerinas or princesses, that doesn't mean we're entitled to any of that, or that every grown-up woman wants to be the center of attention in that way

This is where the show lets me down.  The first few years, with scripts taken almost straight from the real journal, were so true they were like a window to the past.  Now they sometimes feel like afterschool specials, all sorts of lessons about stigma, which is such obvious pandering to the audience. I found the pro-choice message we had this whole season so heavy handed  as to be laughable -- and I am pro-choice.  I can't imagine how it must seem to someone who isn't. Which brings me to Delia's mother suddenly "figuring it out."  Why?  Young women in those days almost always lived with girlfriends, took trips with them, followed each other in career choices. I did with my best friend. Delia's mother would have been relieved that she wasn't ruining her reputation by doing all those things with some man.

[PRgal]

44 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

He, that reminds me of my dress for first communion. My sister had had her first communion pre-Vatican II when girls used to dress as little brides. My mother - a trained dressmaker - made a dress according to my sister's sketches out of beautiful white broderie anglaise.14 years later that sort of thing was no longer customary and we all had to wear drab beige linen robes like mini-monks. Girls could still wear flower wreaths but those were predominantly white and clashed horribly with the robes. I was highly miffed - needless to say I was not a very religious little girl. But show me the 8 year old girl who appreciates austerity over lace-work! (And I think boys were also not that happy to have to wear a robe instead of a tiny suit.) When Sister Mary Cynthia told about her disappointment I could definitely sympathize!

 

I think some schools still required girls to wear white veils into the 90s.  A Facebook friend of mine shared her old communion photos recently and she's a few years younger than me.  As for my school, they forced all of us to dress like monks so that we wouldn't clash (and so that there won't be too much competition on who has the best dress.  Our school shared a parish with two other schools and one school was more working class while the other two were (mostly) solidly middle class). 

47 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

As someone who married in an ordinary dress, far from my home, with no guests except two good friends, the whole sense of entitlement that the young women on TV have ("Say Yes to the dress,") seems like something recently invented to me and particularly anachronistic in this show.  This girl was so lucky.  Lucky her mother-in-law wasn't furious at her for "trapping," her son.  Lucky the boy didn't just abandon her as one of his "girl in  every port," that sailors felt was their due in those days.  Mostly she was lucky to have free medical care for her baby. We didn't in the U. S. when I had my baby in 1968 and we strained to make our monthly hospital payments for four years before we got the baby paid off.  We all grow up playing wedding in lace table cloths, just like we all grow up pretending to be ballerinas or princesses, that doesn't mean we're entitled to any of that, or that every grown-up woman wants to be the center of attention in that way

This is where the show lets me down.  The first few years, with scripts taken almost straight from the real journal, were so true they were like a window to the past.  Now they sometimes feel like afterschool specials, all sorts of lessons about stigma, which is such obvious pandering to the audience. I found the pro-choice message we had this whole season so heavy handed  as to be laughable -- and I am pro-choice.  I can't imagine how it must seem to someone who isn't. Which brings me to Delia's mother suddenly "figuring it out."  Why?  Young women in those days almost always lived with girlfriends, took trips with them, followed each other in career choices. I did with my best friend. Delia's mother would have been relieved that she wasn't ruining her reputation by doing all those things with some man.

I would think the whole dress thing would depend on where you are?  As I said, my mom rented hers for her '72 wedding.  My grandmother was also wearing a white dress in some of her photos - she married just after WWII.  Not sure if she just posed for photos with my grandfather at a studio (in one of those Glamour Shots type places) and it was a dress that was available or if it was something she rented for a ceremony, though.  I'm pretty sure wearing white dresses was only something cool/hip brides did back in 1940s Hong Kong - red was still THE THING and white was a colour of mourning.  These days (or at least since the 80s...no even the 70s.  My mom had three, including one I wore as a second dress at mine), brides have up to five or six dresses.  White for the ceremony, red (heritage) dress for part of the reception, and an evening gown at minimum.

[elle]

On 5/24/2016 at 0:15 PM, doodlebug said:

Considering how this show is generally pretty meticulously accurate, it made no sense for Noelle to deliver on a dining table with just a flimsy curtain separating her from the wedding guests.  BTW, average labor for a first child is 12-16 hours, not the quick hour or two this one took.

While I agree that they should have hustled the bride out of the hall as soon as she started to have labor pains, she may not have wanted to say anything during the ceremony.  We don't know how long she had been having labor pains.  I did object to the "water breaking" scene though, it was unnecessary.  

In RL, I knew someone who had her two kids at home, one at a time back when it was assumed you would go to the hospital, because she said she "didn't want to have the baby in the car" and both came before the ambulance arrived.

On 5/24/2016 at 3:01 PM, MaryHedwig said:

I only wish Sister Evangelina could have been there to see it....

Ah, but she did :0)

[Clanstarling]

My first came so fast (45 minutes from the water breaking) that I went to the hospital early with the second one, not wanting to be an item on the 5 o'clock news. The nurse kept trying to get me to go home, but I refused. The doctor said I had hours to go. She was born 10 minutes after he said that.

[dustylil]

4 hours ago, elle said:

I did object to the "water breaking" scene though, it was unnecessary

Don't we often have a "water breaking" scene though? I thought it was one of motifs of the series - like Sister Monica Joan thieving sweets :)

[elle]

36 minutes ago, dustylil said:

Don't we often have a "water breaking" scene though? I thought it was one of motifs of the series - like Sister Monica Joan thieving sweets :)

Yes, they have shown this before.  This scene seemed to lean to the more stereotypical type.  It just bugged me this time.

Oh, just reading that last bit about Sister MJ reminded me of the scene with Sister E and the cake and I just got a little verklempt! 

[txhorns79]

Quote

Mostly she was lucky to have free medical care for her baby.

In fairness, the British do pay a significant amount in taxes for their "free" care. 

Quote

Which brings me to Delia's mother suddenly "figuring it out."  Why?  Young women in those days almost always lived with girlfriends, took trips with them, followed each other in career choices. I did with my best friend. Delia's mother would have been relieved that she wasn't ruining her reputation by doing all those things with some man.

I thought Delia's mother already knew, not that she suddenly just figured it out.  We aren't given much insight into how others see Patsy and Delia, but I figure either Delia has written home to her mother about Patsy in a way that suggests something more than friendship, or she has seen how Delia and Patsy are with each other, and realized something was going on. 

[JudyObscure]

12 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Quote

Mostly she was lucky to have free medical care for her baby.

In fairness, the British do pay a significant amount in taxes for their "free" care. 

Oh I don't think I was being so terribly unfair.  The girl had just set foot on British soil a few days before, and as active duty Navy the boy wouldn't be paying any income tax.  They may have paid a few pence tax on some purchases but that hardly offsets the thousands of dollars  in medical expenses it costs to have a baby. 

I think the nuns and  midwives do an amazing service for the poor people of their neighborhood.  Most of the women don't have jobs at all and the men are either unemployed or underpaid.  I wouldn't belittle the charitable aspect of what they do by saying, "Oh the women paid for it in high taxes," because that just doesn't compute.  Just like here, the people who pay the really large amount in taxes are the middle and upper class not the really poor people.  I think that's a good thing, I don't mind paying taxes and I wouldn't mind paying a whole lot more if it meant no one ever had to worry about medical bills.

[proserpina65]

Quote

Oh I don't think I was being so terribly unfair.  The girl had just set foot on British soil a few days before, and as active duty Navy the boy wouldn't be paying any income tax.  They may have paid a few pence tax on some purchases but that hardly offsets the thousands of dollars  in medical expenses it costs to have a baby. 

I may have missed something, but I didn't get the sense that he was in the Navy at all.

[morgan]

I don't know if any here are podcast listeners but I listen to one from BBC World Service/ Witness and today's topic is the thalidomide trial of 1968.  I was born in 1967 and diidnt know anything about this drug until CTM and subsequent conversations with my mother, who remembers it well.  Very Interesting and timely considering this season of CTM and this episode in particular.  

Edited May 27, 2016 by morgan

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought Delia's mother already knew, not that she suddenly just figured it out.  We aren't given much insight into how others see Patsy and Delia, but I figure either Delia has written home to her mother about Patsy in a way that suggests something more than friendship, or she has seen how Delia and Patsy are with each other, and realized something was going on. 

She must have known for quite a while - she behaved very odd to Patsy in the hospital and why else would she have hidden Patsy's letters from Delia? 'Living in London is dangerous' is basically code for her saying 'I don't want a lesbian daughter' though I assume she would have worded it differently: 'I don't want my daughter to become a lesbian'.

I was born in the late 60's in central Europe and throughout my childhood we received regularly letters from charities helping Thalomide victims asking for donations. There were pictures in those letters and I remember that my mother had to explain to  me what had happened to those children. There were also occasional documentaries on tv how the kids were doing. The scandal never really disappeared from public consciousness until the 80's I guess when the victims became adults.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I may have missed something, but I didn't get the sense that he was in the Navy at all.

I thought he was living in Australia trying to make a living, and that had failed, so he was returning to Poplar.  I don't recall them saying he was in the Navy. 

Quote

I think the nuns and  midwives do an amazing service for the poor people of their neighborhood.  Most of the women don't have jobs at all and the men are either unemployed or underpaid.  I wouldn't belittle the charitable aspect of what they do by saying, "Oh the women paid for it in high taxes," because that just doesn't compute.  Just like here, the people who pay the really large amount in taxes are the middle and upper class not the really poor people.  I think that's a good thing, I don't mind paying taxes and I wouldn't mind paying a whole lot more if it meant no one ever had to worry about medical bills.

My understanding of the National Health Service is that it is paid for through various taxes British citizens pay.  Costs are heavily controlled, so a procedure that may be thousands here, might only cost a few hundred there.  While I'm sure the nuns are doing what they are doing out of charity, I do believe that they (or their Order) and the midwives would get some kind of reimbursement for services.  I'm not saying they aren't wonderful people who go above and beyond for their charges, but I don't think they are doing all of this simply out of the goodness of their hearts either (well, maybe the nuns). 

Edited May 27, 2016 by txhorns79

[MaryHedwig]

Quote

I thought Delia's mother already knew, not that she suddenly just figured it out.  We aren't given much insight into how others see Patsy and Delia, but I figure either Delia has written home to her mother about Patsy in a way that suggests something more than friendship, or she has seen how Delia and Patsy are with each other, and realized something was going on.

Yes, I just assumed the mom had already known about Delia due to her previous crushes in high school. 

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I may have missed something, but I didn't get the sense that he was in the Navy at all.

If nobody else heard it I must have misunderstood something his mother said.  Sorry, I can't make out the accent sometimes.

As for the nuns and midwives getting funds from the NIH.  I didn't say they didn't, just that there is a charitable aspect to what they do.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

If nobody else heard it I must have misunderstood something his mother said.  Sorry, I can't make out the accent sometimes.

As for the nuns and midwives getting funds from the NIH.  I didn't say they didn't, just that there is a charitable aspect to what they do.

I just pulled up the episode on my DVR.  It sounds like he'd moved to Australia for a job on something like a government-sponsored project.  He ended up working on a sheep farm ("cutting off more than wool" according to his mother), and had to pay his own way home because he didn't like it.  Doesn't sound like he was in the navy.

I always watch with closed captioning on, because I can't understand them either!

[Anothermi]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

If nobody else heard it I must have misunderstood something his mother said.  Sorry, I can't make out the accent sometimes.

As for the nuns and midwives getting funds from the NIH.  I didn't say they didn't, just that there is a charitable aspect to what they do.

I thought it was Mrs. Cottingham's husband who was in the Navy (or a merchant seaman). She was the one who had 3 boys who always seemed to be getting into trouble and who was pregnant and hoping for a girl.  (episode 4 this series) She ended up in the hospital. Her baby was so badly deformed that it didn't live long - (and the hospital staff placed it by an open window to speed the process until Sister Julienne found her).

Her husband wasn't around and IIRC she said he was out working on a ship. I can't go back and review, so I might be wrong.

My point is that Mrs. Cottingham was also in this episode (adding gin to her coffee) so the Navy husband might have come up in reference to her? It can be easy to mix up the details of character's lives.

[dustylil]

Given Noelle was acquiring a mother-in-law from hell, I  guess I don't really begrudge her the "white" wedding and the taxpayer provided medical care, which really amounted to some hours of midwifery services :)

[txhorns79]

Quote

Given Noelle was acquiring a mother-in-law from hell, I  guess I don't really begrudge her the "white" wedding and the taxpayer provided medical care, which really amounted to some hours of midwifery services

She was?   I thought her mother in law was very kind to her. 

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, dustylil said:

Given Noelle was acquiring a mother-in-law from hell, I  guess I don't really begrudge her the "white" wedding and the taxpayer provided medical care, which really amounted to some hours of midwifery services :)

I thought the mother in law was kind, too, and I sure didn't begrudge Noelle the free medical care, or the white gown.  I just didn't think it was entirely appropriate for her  to turn her nose up at the flowered dress someone gave her and whine, "But will I feel like a bride?" I just thought a little gratitude might be nice, even if  the flowered dress didn't cost that much or the midwives only gave her a few hours time.  But I guess that's the definition of entitlement -- down play the effort other people have made for you so you can ask for even more.

[Kohola3]

I look at the "feel like a bride" line not as entitlement but as the plot point set up for using Sr. E's dress and nothing more.  

[wonderwoman]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I look at the "feel like a bride" line not as entitlement but as the plot point set up for using Sr. E's dress and nothing more.  

Exactly!  And, I never got any sense that she wasn't grateful for the kindness extended to her. As I said in my original post: her life had taken an unexpected turn, things were happening quickly, so, yes, JudyObscure, she was more than "entitled" to wonder if she would "feel like a bride."

Edited May 28, 2016 by wonderwoman
forgot to proofread:)

[Clanstarling]

I think you can be both grateful for all the kindnesses, and disappointed that the experience of being a bride wasn't going to be like you'd imagined it. She wouldn't have imagined being hugely pregnant, being so far away from home, or being without family and friends. Having a wedding dress was the only remnant of her dreams she could still hang on to.

I think the mother-in-law started out as if she were going to be the mil from hell, but then softened and embraced her as soon as she became a real person and not the imagined hussy who would ruin her son's life. I really liked that they made that shift - most shows would not.

[dustylil]

59 minutes ago, clanstarling said:

think the mother-in-law started out as if she were going to be the mil from hell, but then softened and embraced her as soon as she became a real person and not the imagined hussy who would ruin her son's life

I was basing my comments concerning the mother-in-law on her behaviour towards everyone else - bursting into the vicar's office unannounced and uninvited, bossing her son around, being rude to Fred and Violet who had done nothing to deserve it, whining about her son's legal obligations, etc. -  not to Noelle at the wedding where she was  indeed kind and supportive.

I wondered what that household  would be like in a month or so after the wedding.

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, clanstarling said:

I think the mother-in-law started out as if she were going to be the mil from hell, but then softened and embraced her as soon as she became a real person and not the imagined hussy who would ruin her son's life. I really liked that they made that shift - most shows would not.

Good point.  And she's getting a grandbaby. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I think the mother-in-law started out as if she were going to be the mil from hell, but then softened and embraced her as soon as she became a real person and not the imagined hussy who would ruin her son's life. I really liked that they made that shift - most shows would not.

I can agree that they set her up as someone who might make life difficult for her daughter in law, and it was nice to see that was not the case.  That's why I was so confused about the comment calling her the "mother-in-law from hell" when her behavior during the episode didn't remotely reflect that.          

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, dustylil said:

I was basing my comments concerning the mother-in-law on her behaviour towards everyone else - bursting into the vicar's office unannounced and uninvited, bossing her son around, being rude to Fred and Violet who had done nothing to deserve it, whining about her son's legal obligations, etc. -  not to Noelle at the wedding where she was  indeed kind and supportive.

I wondered what that household  would be like in a month or so after the wedding.

I can see your perspective. For me, once she embraced her daughter-in-law to be, I thought that at least some of those behaviors could be attributed to being stressed out about getting the marriage happen in time so that the baby wouldn't be born "a bastard", as well as being hit with a lot of unknowns and things she could not control.

Edited May 28, 2016 by clanstarling

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, wonderwoman said:

As I said in my original post: her life had taken an unexpected turn, things were happening quickly, so, yes, JudyObscure, she was more than "entitled" to wonder if she would "feel like a bride."

Her life's  turn couldn't have been all that unexpected.  Unlike the mother-in-law who had adjusted so quickly, Noelle had had nine months to make plans and consider what her wedding might be like and what she might wear.  If wearing a white dress was more important to her than reaching her boyfriend, marrying in time,  making a home and preparing for all her baby's needs, then she could have been working on making a dress during that time. Even the initial news that she was pregnant shouldn't have been completely unexpected.

It's not her feeling disappointed that bothered me, It might have been a sad day for her for a dozen different reasons. It was voicing that complaint to the very people who were rushing around to do so much for her. 

I'm sure it was a plot point as the whole thing is fiction, but if the writer wanted to bring in Sister Evangelina's dress I think it could have been figured out some other way.  Now we're back to my original mention of this.  If something had to be cut from the episode I would rather it be this sort of contrived story about a new character we don't know, than bits about our regular cast.

[Ceindreadh]

Regarding the 'mother in law from hell', wasn't part of that Sister Evangelina's take on her (via Sister Mary Cynthia) as in "poor Noelle getting Tessie Anselm as a mother in law".  And while she was fairly kind to her daughter in law, it's obviously not a situation she was totally happy about, but she was making the best of it. 

[doodlebug]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 2:23 PM, JudyObscure said:

Oh I don't think I was being so terribly unfair.  The girl had just set foot on British soil a few days before, and as active duty Navy the boy wouldn't be paying any income tax.  They may have paid a few pence tax on some purchases but that hardly offsets the thousands of dollars  in medical expenses it costs to have a baby. 

I think the nuns and  midwives do an amazing service for the poor people of their neighborhood.  Most of the women don't have jobs at all and the men are either unemployed or underpaid.  I wouldn't belittle the charitable aspect of what they do by saying, "Oh the women paid for it in high taxes," because that just doesn't compute.  Just like here, the people who pay the really large amount in taxes are the middle and upper class not the really poor people.  I think that's a good thing, I don't mind paying taxes and I wouldn't mind paying a whole lot more if it meant no one ever had to worry about medical bills.

Back in the early 60's,the medical costs involved in having a home birth with a midwife in Great Britain would've been no more than a hundred bucks or so, including prenatal care, most of which this lady either got in Australia or didn't have at all.  Granted, incomes were much lower those days and a couple hundred bucks would be a very significant expense to the young couple, but not insurmountable.  Hospital stays those days for childbirth were also quite inexpensive.  My sister was born in 1956 and my mother kept a copy of the bill for $150 for the weeks' stays in the hospital for the two of them.

[JudyObscure]

Well I guess she doesn't even need to bother to say thanks then.

[Kohola3]

Just because we didn't see it, doesn't mean she didn't or wouldn't have expressed her thanks. There are a finite number of minutes to an episode. 

[wonderwoman]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

It's not her feeling disappointed that bothered me, It might have been a sad day for her for a dozen different reasons. It was voicing that complaint to the very people who were rushing around to do so much for her. 

Thinking back to your original post, this scene clearly stirred up some deep emotions for you. I, however, loved that the scene was included; when the bride voice her emotions, which I never saw as anything resembing a complaint, it became one of the deeply resonate, bittersweet moments that makes Call the Midwife such a special show. 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Just because we didn't see it, doesn't mean she didn't or wouldn't have expressed her thanks. There are a finite number of minutes to an episode. 

I didn't say she hadn't thanked them.  I was responding ( sarcastically) to the post just above mine that seemed to be saying the midwives didn't charge very much so she didn't need to be grateful to them.   

 

Oh well, clearly  lots of people really loved this character.  I  didn't feel I knew anything about her, so I didn't get any deep feelings toward her, other than thinking she was being a bit  rude.  If someone had given me their own pretty dress and hat to get married in, I doubt if I would have implied that it wasn't good  enough for me.  I wonder how the owner  felt when her dress was returned to her and she was told Nicole didn't want to wear it.  I guess I've developed feelings of loyalty to the women who live in the area, how poor most of them are, how much work just to wash and iron that dress, the real struggles going on  with thalidomide babies, typhoid, stillbirths, or even the  problems like the woman who was trying to breast feed and couldn't. This one just seemed sort of  trivial and vain  to me in comparison.

[caitmcg]

Quote

I wonder how the owner  felt when her dress was returned to her and she was told Nicole didn't want to wear it.  I guess I've developed feelings of loyalty to the women who live in the area, how poor most of them are, how much work just to wash and iron that dress, 

The floral dress wasn't borrowed; she told Sister Mary Cynthia, "I brought the maternity dress from home" (i.e., Australia).

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, caitmcg said:

Quote

I wonder how the owner  felt when her dress was returned to her and she was told Nicole didn't want to wear it.  I guess I've developed feelings of loyalty to the women who live in the area, how poor most of them are, how much work just to wash and iron that dress, 

The floral dress wasn't borrowed; she told Sister Mary Cynthia, "I brought the maternity dress from home" (i.e., Australia).

And her soon-to-be mother-in-law had picked out the hat, one of those flowered swim cap type things that older women wore. Sister Mary Cynthia tried to console her by telling her how pretty the colors of the maternity dress were, but you could see the wheels spinning as she internally commiserated with Nicole over her own inability to wear a wedding dress at her "wedding" (when she took her vows), and also realized that the delivery of the wedding dresses to Nonnatus House, especially Sister Evangelina's plus-sized one, had been exceptionally fortuitous.

Edited May 29, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, caitmcg said:

The floral dress wasn't borrowed; she told Sister Mary Cynthia, "I brought the maternity dress from home" (i.e., Australia).

Well that does make a difference.  I must have misheard most of what she said.

Sorry, but then  when I said I would have preferred they cut this part over cutting parts about Dr. Turner, I didn't expect to have to defend my choice as though I had said something bad about Chummy.  

Maybe I'm just on the defensive because I got married in a nice, dressy blue dress and didn't realize it meant I hadn't had a real wedding. 

[elle]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Maybe I'm just on the defensive because I got married in a nice, dressy blue dress and didn't realize it meant I hadn't had a real wedding. 

 The tradition of the "white wedding" only really began with Queen Victoria.  It is fascinating just how many "old" traditions we have here that can be traced back to the Victorian Era.  Blue was the preferred color before that and for many years after before the whole tradition took hold.  And as we see today, anything goes color-wise.  Some are pretty and some are particularly hideous, but that has always been the way with *the dress*., mmv!

[Clanstarling]

My mother was married in a navy blue lace dress that was nearly black - about a decade before the events in this episode. I wore white, but it wasn't a wedding dress, just a summer dress. As a girl I'd designed "my" wedding dress, but when I married in the 80's, I decided that for me it was ridiculous to spend that kind of money and chose a dress I could actually wear again (and did, and my daughters wore it too - but not to get married. One of them wore their grandmother's lace dress to Prom). Still, sometimes, I think wistfully about the dress I imagined - and even saw something very like it on Facebook recently.

Edited May 29, 2016 by clanstarling

[Driad]

The way I heard it, an older tradition was for a bride to wear a new dress (any color) if possible, to symbolize her new status. At some point a white dress became popular partly because white is so impractical that a clean white dress almost had to be new.  

No CTM tonight.  Sunday will never be the same, as the old song goes.  Or it will but not for a long time.  Will the next episode be aired in December in Britain and next spring in the US?

[Kohola3]

I think we get a Christmas Special in the US, don't we?

[OnceSane]

34 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I think we get a Christmas Special in the US, don't we?

Yep.  I think they aired it on Christmas Eve last year.

[dustylil]

12 minutes ago, OnceSane said:

think they aired it on Christmas Eve last year.

On the PBS stations I have access to (Buffalo, Detroit, Seattle), it was aired on Christmas Night.

I watched it while eating my first (ok, my second) leftover turkey sandwich.