S06.E05: The Door

[CeeBeeGee]

15 hours ago, BookElitist said:

Bran was NOT the cause of all  the machinations, mayhem, and murders in Kinky King's Landing. He is no more a villainous character than Catelyn with her errs and Sansa with her arrogance. Perhaps, Catelyn should not have pressed Ned to accept The Position. He sure didn't wish to do so just as Ned didn't count on certain persons revealing his plans of escape for his family and himself. Sansa was supposed to keep her mouth shut yet in a spoiled vain selfish snit did not . Cersei sure took advantage of that deliberate 'slip' of the tongue.

Exactly, I get so tired of the Internet overreaction whenever Generally Decent Character makes a mistake or shows flaws (Sansa, Bran, Ned, Mad Men Betty, Katniss) it's always "they're the worrrrrrrssssst ever." No. Cersei is awful. Merwin Trant is awful. The Mountain is AWFUL. Ramsay Bolton is the worst ever (although barely worse than the Mountain). Have some perspective.

Bran? He was a kid who climbed a wall. And was pushed to his expected death for that. And he's been trying to deal with those consequences, and those revealed by his mind abilities, ever since. He obviously cares for Willys/Hodor and has all his life. He made a mistake (one that the 3ER might've mitigated had he been a bit more forthcoming) and he will undoubtedly try to learn from this mistake.

[RedHawk]

4 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I thought Tormund was married/in a committed relationship.  Didn't he say something about his daughters?  I don't think Brienne is the type for casual romance.

What happens south of the Wall stays south of the Wall?

Although I guess Tormund brought his family with him. IDK, life is short for most everyone in Westeros. By now he could be a grieving widower with several sweet Wildling children who would melt Brienne's heart.

[MrWhyt]

5 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I thought Tormund was married/in a committed relationship.  Didn't he say something about his daughters?  I don't think Brienne is the type for casual romance.

children ≠ married/committed relationship

[Calamity Jane]

6 hours ago, fellini said:

I think every time a character on Game of Thrones is killed we should say rest in peace. Rest in Peace Hodor. =0)

I don't have that much spare time.  But yes, rest in peace, Hodor.

[Haiti D]

When was the last time we saw Tyrion get some action?  Shae?  I wonder if he's still hurting emotionally.  I'm sure he noticed how hot the Red Priestess was.

[Lady S.]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

What happens south of the Wall stays south of the Wall?

Although I guess Tormund brought his family with him. IDK, life is short for most everyone in Westeros. By now he could be a grieving widower with several sweet Wildling children who would melt Brienne's heart.

I'm assuming he's a widower too. Between the crows and the white walkers, the free folk probably had pretty dangerous lives. Especially if we assume his babymama was a fighter herself.

Not sure why this is being made into a sexist sexual harassment thing. I know I've given weird and moony looks to guys who did not return my interest. Granted, this was in high school, but still. Tormund hasn't leered at her lasciviously or propositioned her in any way (something else Cersei's lapdog did, in a mocking "don't you wanna know what it feels like to be a woman?" way) so I fail to see how he deserves more condemnation than Cersei's lapdog, who Brienne certainly wasn't all that fond of in their early days together.

[LittleIggy]

Maybe Tormund can take Brienne to the Westeros Wyndham for a weekend getaway.

[wayne67]

Anyone else curious about what will happen with Stannis's debt and ships ? Davos talked up Stannis and Stannis died on an ill thought campaign. 

That Bank is overdue to repossess some assets if there are any left. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Maybe Tormund can take Brienne to the Westeros Wyndham for a weekend getaway.

Not like he's lacking points for the royal suite upgrade....

[Audreythe2nd]

It's not really about the sexual harassment thing, it's more of a story thing. It's some fun attention being thrown Brienne's way (that she's not totally receptive too) but there is the spectre of someone else hanging over the story/pairing. Yes, Jaime tried to kill her. Yes, he was less than kind to her in the beginning. He also saved her life twice, and then the show deliberately sought to call attention to the fact that "you LOVE him." I'm just trying to argue that this isn't something that's likely to go away just because Tormund stares at her lasciviously. Not trying to take away anyone's fun, just trying to distinguish between fun and probably important, story-wise.

But anyway. We shall see, won't we?

[Lady S.]

2 hours ago, Audreythe2nd said:

It's not really about the sexual harassment thing, it's more of a story thing. It's some fun attention being thrown Brienne's way (that she's not totally receptive too) but there is the spectre of someone else hanging over the story/pairing. Yes, Jaime tried to kill her. Yes, he was less than kind to her in the beginning. He also saved her life twice, and then the show deliberately sought to call attention to the fact that "you LOVE him." I'm just trying to argue that this isn't something that's likely to go away just because Tormund stares at her lasciviously. Not trying to take away anyone's fun, just trying to distinguish between fun and probably important, story-wise.

Who was saying it was anything more than fun? Or that Brienne was actually receptive and Cersei's lapdog no longer meant anything to her? If Brienne does go to Riverrun, she might not ever see Tormund again. Sometimes people ship things even if they don't think the pairing will happen, that can still be fun. People might like the bearfucker better than the sisterfucker, but I haven't seen anyone say that Brienne likes the bearfucker better than the sisterfucker.

[One Tough Cookie]

I rewatched last night.  I think that Yara missed her opportunity.  When Urine admitted to killing his brother  had she said "Arrest this man for treason" the ironborn would have done so.  She hesitated and lost her opportunity.

Edited May 26, 2016 by One More Time

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, One More Time said:

I rewatched last night.  I think that Yara missed her opportunity.  When Urine admitted to killing his brother  had she said "Arrest this man for treason" the ironborn would have done so.  She hesitated and lost her opportunity.

She didn't hesitate, I don't think, she saw that nobody really cared when he admitted to having killed Balon.

[BigBeagle]

14 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

I think every time a character on Game of Thrones is killed we should say rest in peace.

Except, of course, with Ramsey ... I think a simple "rot in hell" will suffice.

[NoWillToResist]

1 hour ago, Lady S. said:

 I haven't seen anyone say that Brienne likes the bearfucker better than the sisterfucker.

Poor Brienne. When laid out like that, what miserable prospects! Can there be a third contender? Or perhaps just celibacy? :D

[Hecate7]

21 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Don't leave by the back door, 

Children of Forest will sign at cave entrance.

 

I thought Tormund was married/in a committed relationship.  Didn't he say something about his daughters?  I don't think Brienne is the type for casual romance.

 

We met her and his two little redheaded daughters in the Hardhome episode. She was killed. Twice.

[Audreythe2nd]

1 hour ago, Lady S. said:

Who was saying it was anything more than fun? Or that Brienne was actually receptive and Cersei's lapdog no longer meant anything to her? If Brienne does go to Riverrun, she might not ever see Tormund again. Sometimes people ship things even if they don't think the pairing will happen, that can still be fun. People might like the bearfucker better than the sisterfucker, but I haven't seen anyone say that Brienne likes the bearfucker better than the sisterfucker.

Lol, well put. Of course people can ship for fun, and I didn't mean to imply that they couldn't! Sorry, I feel like I was responding to something specific, something that was dismissive of Brienne's actual feelings in the matter (and not that one can't be critical of those feelings either) and I was just pointing out where her story is more likely to go - though that's not even an absolute certainty - but I can't think of what it was now. Ah well!

[knaankos]

Hey one of the best episodes in the last 2 seasons and there was no Ramsay Bolton or any Kings Landing stuff. Coincidence?

[RedHawk]

36 minutes ago, Hecate7 said:

 

We met her and his two little redheaded daughters in the Hardhome episode. She was killed. Twice.

See, he's even got a double-sad story. Brienne will be all "awwwww" one day...

7 minutes ago, knaankos said:

Hey one of the best episodes in the last 2 seasons and there was no Ramsay Bolton or any Kings Landing stuff. Coincidence?

I think not!

[NoWillToResist]

1 hour ago, knaankos said:

Hey one of the best episodes in the last 2 seasons and there was no Ramsay Bolton or any Kings Landing stuff. Coincidence?

Can I just say that I'm bored of Ramsay? I mean, sure, I want him dead but mostly it's because he's *gasp* BORING. Ye gods, he's so fucking boring. There is just nothing there! He is completely without depth. He's an evil sadist who hates everything and everyone. Ho hum. Get him off my screen. Someone who cares about nothing is not remotely interesting. He might as well be a cardboard cut out.

[candall]

12 hours ago, Audreythe2nd said:

He also saved her life twice,

You know, I've been on the pro-Tormund "Holy shit, now THAT'S a woman!" bandwagon, but I forgot all about Jaime saving Brienne from a brutal gang rape with his Emerald Isle ploy aaaaand that he risked his own life and freedom to go back and pull her out of that horrible situation in the bear pit.

Jaime's more than a poncey sisterfucker, as far as Brienne's concerned.  He absolutely earned that torch she's carrying.  Tormund needs to bring more to the table than King Leer.

[CeeBeeGee]

8 hours ago, NoWillToResist said:

Can I just say that I'm bored of Ramsay? I mean, sure, I want him dead but mostly it's because he's *gasp* BORING. Ye gods, he's so fucking boring. There is just nothing there! He is completely without depth. He's an evil sadist who hates everything and everyone. Ho hum. Get him off my screen. Someone who cares about nothing is not remotely interesting. He might as well be a cardboard cut out.

SO AGREE

Joffrey did it first, and frankly a bit better. Joffrey very occasionally had the odd moment of insight and intelligence. When he first heard about Dany and the dragons and Cersei and the Small Council were blowing off the news, he was the only one who took it seriously. He also wanted to defy Cersei's wishes and go into battle himself during Blackwater which frankly was pretty damn brave of him. By and large Joffrey was perfectly dreadful and certainly deserved his fate, but he could surprise you every now and then, unlike Ramsay. I've always thought the showrunners missed a perfect opportunity to add nuance to Ramsay when he was so sadistic to Sansa--wouldn't it have been more interesting if he'd fallen head over heels for her? He promised Littlefinger he would treat her well--I thought it indicated some kind of infatuation that would've added something to him, but no, as soon as the door closed on their wedding night it was more of the same. BORING.

[paigow]

On 26/05/2016 at 11:02 PM, candall said:

I forgot all about Jaime saving Brienne from a brutal gang rape with his Emerald Isle ploy aaaaand that he risked his own life and freedom to go back and pull her out of that horrible situation in the bear pit.

He was merely fulfilling standard Lannister debt repayment policy. She killed several Stark bannermen to save him. If he had not initiated their fight, Locke would not have captured them, putting her in jeopardy. 

Edited May 28, 2016 by paigow
Grammar

[Haiti D]

This Jorah guy won't give up.  I feel like he might have to go back to Westeros and consult some old Maesters.  Maybe Qyburn?

I have a feeling we won't see him again this season, which I really don't mind.   See ya next year, Mormont!

[dangwoodchucks]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 11:30 PM, Haiti D said:

When was the last time we saw Tyrion get some action?  Shae?  I wonder if he's still hurting emotionally.  I'm sure he noticed how hot the Red Priestess was.

That look on Tyrion's face when he was ready to tell Varys to stop challenging the Red Priestess said, "Stop trying to upset her, I might want to hit that later".

2 hours ago, Haiti D said:

This Jorah guy won't give up.  I feel like he might have to go back to Westeros and consult some old Maesters.  Maybe Qyburn?

I have a feeling we won't see him again this season, which I really don't mind.   See ya next year, Mormont!

Maybe if Sam ever makes it to the Citadel he'll find a miracle cure for Jorah while figuring out how to defeat the WW.

[paigow]

17 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

He also wanted to defy Cersei's wishes and go into battle himself during Blackwater which frankly was pretty damn brave of him...

I see that as delusional...Stannis would have killed him within 30 seconds- mano a boyo. Ramsay actually has credible battlefield skills that might have defeated Stannis in single combat.

[knaankos]

A fan at the Alabama vs Washington softball game is holding a sign that says "Hold the Door"

[CeeBeeGee]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

I see that as delusional...Stannis would have killed him within 30 seconds- mano a boyo. Ramsay actually has credible battlefield skills that might have defeated Stannis in single combat.

 

Well, of course Stannis would've bested him. But it was still brave.  IIRC (it's been awhile since I've seen that episode), it wasn't so much that Joffrey was straining at the leash to go and fight, full of bravado--it was more like he realized that was what a king should do. Considering how young he was, he had every excuse to stay out of the fighting, but he knew a leader should actually be out front. (A medieval leader, anyway.) I found it interesting, because he was such a unmitigated cruel shit the rest of the time.

[zulualpha]

On 5/26/2016 at 1:15 PM, NoWillToResist said:

Can I just say that I'm bored of Ramsay? I mean, sure, I want him dead but mostly it's because he's *gasp* BORING. Ye gods, he's so fucking boring. There is just nothing there! He is completely without depth. He's an evil sadist who hates everything and everyone. Ho hum. Get him off my screen. Someone who cares about nothing is not remotely interesting. He might as well be a cardboard cut out.

Ramsay is a lot of things- narssisistic,  sadistic, misogynistic, sociopathic, obsessed with power, cunning, full of rage- but boring isn't one of them imo.  I think there have been people like him throughout history, Vlad the Impaler comes to mind.  Plus the actor is excellent, just completely committed, absorbing and compelling whenever he's on screen.   He's a wonderful villain, love him.  No shades of gray there!

I watched the show again and found the last scenes just as heartbreaking the second time around .  I know it's unlikely but I hope Bran's dog made it out alive.  The thing that struck me on the second viewing was the scene where the little elfin creature, the child of the forest, was running with Hodor, Bran and Meera in their desperate attempt to escape the monsters.  The part where she takes her explosive device and sacrifices herself is "borrowed" from Aliens- the scene where Vasquez and Gorman blow themselves and some alien monsters up to buy time for Ripley, Newt and Hicks to flee.  It's amazing how many creative people rip off Aliens, either stealthily or just outright cut and paste quotes.

[Katalina]

Quote

She's had the admiration and loyalty of the Ironborn for some time now, it was obvious by the number of men who went with her.

 

Looks like the kingdom of the Ironborn is pretty much cut in half—the asswipe half and the half that recognizes talent and good leadership.

Quote

wouldn't it have been more interesting if he'd fallen head over heels for her? He promised Littlefinger he would treat her well--I thought it indicated some kind of infatuation that would've added something to him, but no, as soon as the door closed on their wedding night it was more of the same.

Couldn't agree more. I thought, during their wedding, that Ramsay might actually be okay to Sansa. But the character is written to show his out-of-control sadism, to both Theon and Sansa, and shows how he'd rather mistreat his political captives than treat them care, with an eye to the larger political realities. As his father pointed out he “played his games” with them, and bollixed up any political ploys going forward. Whatever tiny amount of tenderness resides in Ramsay was given to his deranged mistress.

[Hecate7]

5 hours ago, Katalina said:

wouldn't it have been more interesting if he'd fallen head over heels for her? He promised Littlefinger he would treat her well--I thought it indicated some kind of infatuation that would've added something to him, but no, as soon as the door closed on their wedding night it was more of the same

 

He's a sadist. Falling head over heels in love doesn't change that--behind closed doors it's always still going to be more of the same. The only way to survive is the Myranda/Margaery option of being, or pretending to be, an equally sadistic person, but even then sooner or later the sadist's gonna do what he does. Had he ever become exclusive with Myranda, Ramsey would have eventually done the same to her. There was no reason to show us Tansy, except to put us on notice vis what lay in store for any woman who "made Myranda jealous."

[HumblePi]

On 5/23/2016 at 3:49 AM, RCharter said:

And this is also a test to see if Arya can really kill someone who hasn't done anything wrong.  Yes, Arya can kill when there is a reason, or when they have screwed her over, but can she give up her identity enough to kill someone who just seems like a nice enough person when there doesn't appear to be a reason?

I can't believe that Arya could ever really carry out any killings that she's hired to do without questioning the reason for the 'gift' of death. But that's exactly the purpose of the 'Faceless Men'..... to murder in return for payment. I'm not even sure why Arya chose to commit herself to becoming one of the Faceless Men at all? She has a list of those she wants to have murdered or to murder herself, but can she really kill just because she's been paid to kill? A Faceless Man has no agenda or control over who they murder if they are indeed true Faceless Men.

[HumblePi]

9 hours ago, Katalina said:

Looks like the kingdom of the Ironborn is pretty much cut in half—the asswipe half and the half that recognizes talent and good leadership.

Couldn't agree more. I thought, during their wedding, that Ramsay might actually be okay to Sansa. But the character is written to show his out-of-control sadism, to both Theon and Sansa, and shows how he'd rather mistreat his political captives than treat them care, with an eye to the larger political realities. As his father pointed out he “played his games” with them, and bollixed up any political ploys going forward. Whatever tiny amount of tenderness resides in Ramsay was given to his deranged mistress.

I think that Ramsey's treatment of Sansa had to play out as it did in order for Sansa to be able to find some resolve and inner strength that she didn't have before. Ramsey couldn't be shown turning over a new leaf of sentimental feelings because it would make him appear normal and he's definitely not, he's a psychotic maniac. Prior to Sansa being given to Ramsey to wed, she was pretty much an immature, delicate little flower. She was totally ignorant and extremely gullible. If nothing else, her treatment at the hand of Ramsey made her grow a backbone and some street smarts.

[Constantinople]

Who knew that Kingsmoot would correctly predict the result of the 2016 US Presidential election?

[The Companion]

On 5/22/2016 at 9:29 PM, Macbeth said:

Hodor's death was the most heartbreaking scene in all of GOT for me.  Max Von Sydow why didn't you warn Bran about how bad the Night King's touch could be - before it happened?

One of the tough things about watching everything late, is that I was totally spoiled on what was going to happen and Hodor's death was still one of the most heartbreaking scenes so far.

On 5/22/2016 at 10:01 PM, Drogo said:

Bran: Am I ready?

Man in Tree: Clearly not, since I'm such a shit teacher I never mentioned Rule #1 "Stay the hell away from visions of White Walkers or we all die."

I am dying. Seems like something they should have covered in orientation.

On 5/23/2016 at 2:44 AM, Haiti D said:

 

And is it a prerequisite of becoming a red priestess to have nice cans?  

I noticed she had a similar necklace to the one Melissandre wears, so it might be a perk rather than a prerequisite. Become a red priestess and, sure, you may have to burn kids or something but you will never age and look totally hot. Hope you like chokers!

 

On 5/23/2016 at 11:04 AM, Advance35 said:

 

I do have to admit I LOVE the scenes we get of Jon and Sansa.   They are just so different in EVERY way but at the same time they can relate.  I had to LOL when Sansa asked him if he liked her dress and Jon answered by gesturing at the dress and saying he liked the "wolf bit."   Maybe it was Kit's delivery but it made me smile for some reason.   I think a kind of aloofness fit's Sansa's character.

I loved the way he delivered this. It sounded like something my brother would say if he was trying to compliment me but didn't know what to say.

I found the Sir Jorah scene incredibly touching. Between that and the final scenes, this was an emotional one.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, The Companion said:

I noticed she had a similar necklace to the one Melissandre wears, so it might be a perk rather than a prerequisite. Become a red priestess and, sure, you may have to burn kids or something but you will never age and look totally hot. Hope you like chokers!

Pun intended? (perk)

[The Companion]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Pun intended? (perk)

Lol! Totally unintentional.