S02.E23: The Race of His Life

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

After Zoom reveals his true plan, Barry vows to do whatever it takes to stop him.

Promo:

[ottoDbusdriver]

A race, really ?  Zoom killed his daddy, killed numerous other people on both Earths, and once beat Barry so badly and dragged him around Central City like a rag doll to humiliate him so instead of trying to destroy Zoom once and for all they are going to settle it with a winner take all race.  Really ?

 

[benteen]

I know.  It seems laughable that after everything that has happened, it comes down to a stupid race.

[phoenics]

I think the whole race thing is stupid.  Really stupid.  Barry needs to kick Zoom's ass - not RACE him... what the heck will that prove?  NOTHING!  And even more - Zoom has Barry's speed - so Barry's racing against ... himself technically.

[zannej]

I want to see them start to race and have Barry trip Zoom and watch him faceplant and slide.

[Trini]

On 5/18/2016 at 9:14 AM, benteen said:

I know.  It seems laughable that after everything that has happened, it comes down to a stupid race.

There must be more to it in context. (Hope springs eternal!)

Anyway, the comic preview already has me annoyed;

Spoiler

The "time remnant" thing only barely made sense with Reverse Flash, I can't believe they're doing it twice with Zoom.

[Trini]

Extended promo with a bit more explanation of the race:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 5/18/2016 at 3:43 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

A race, really ?  Zoom killed his daddy, killed numerous other people on both Earths, and once beat Barry so badly and dragged him around Central City like a rag doll to humiliate him so instead of trying to destroy Zoom once and for all they are going to settle it with a winner take all race.  Really ?

I know, right? I thought at best it would be like Jerry's race on Seinfeld. "Yes, Mr. Bevilacqua!" If someone murdered my dad in front of me, my first method of revenge wouldn't be, "Hey, let's race!"

[zannej]

Thanks, Trini. I'm guessing that the "race" thing is to trick Zoom or something. At least I hope so. Maybe he will be pretending to play along. I really would like to see him trip Zoom during the race. I wonder what happened to his tachyon speed enhancer. Unless Zoom stole it, Barry could use it to amplify his speed so he could rescue Joe-- but of course, Zoom could go kill other people. So, it would be better to get the help of Team Flash to take Zoom down.

Since Harry disagreed with Barry doing this for revenge and since he said the giant device can be weaponized, I could see him doing something to sabotage it to make up for NOT doing something more proactive when taking Barry's speed and giving it to Zoom.

[Trini]

I hope that time travel is at least mentioned as an option (to save Henry), because Barry did it for questionable reasons earlier, but now he has a really good reason.

[bettername2come]

What the fuck, Barry?! You're regressing!

[prospazzinator]

Barry Allen, folks. Just doing Barry Allen things.

Sigh.

[nerdyduck]

BARRY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?  Did the previous time travels not teach you anything?!?!?

The feels in this episode, wow! 

I knew it was going to be Henry Allen's doppleganger!  And in the Flash outfit!  So many memories.

[nksarmi]

 What the hell? 

[Rai]

Real Jay Garrick made me sniffle with fan joy.  The original Golden Age characters tend to be my favorites over their Silver Age counterparts, and seeing Jay like that...wow.

[Mierin]

WTF was that!?!?!?!

Just when I thought Barry couldn't get any dumber, he surprises me!

[SimoneS]

Iris might as well be a piece of tissue that barely gets used before being thrown away. Screw the showrunner.

[TV Anonymous]

So Barry's own father died, and nobody from Team Arrow attended the funeral? How very rude of them.

Of course, in-universe they are still busy fighting Darhk; behind the scene, there might not be budget to hire Amell or Rickards...

[curlygirl]

Pretty much makes that episode where it appeared that Barry finally came to terms with his mom's death pointless. Plus, his dad is killed, so he goes back in time to save his mom? No sense.

[phoenics]

Well... Flashpoint is coming then.  That will be the S3 premiere.

Wow.  But - wouldn't that affect Arrow and LoT?  And maybe Supergirl?

[ottoDbusdriver]

I hate to say it but enough with the time remnants already.

Really Barry ?  You are going to solve your dead daddy issues by saving your mommy issues.  
But won't this also skew the entire timeline and Barrie shouldn't even get his powers until much, much later -- Barrie from the S1 finale disappeared.

Edited May 25, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[dkb]

Ok... so that happened. I thought it was boring and anti-climactic, until the end.

Liked the Barry+Iris kiss, awwww

Why are they making Barry stupid?

[Hook75]

So Harrison Wells is going to be the big bad again next season? Oy, Barry!

Edited May 25, 2016 by Hook75

[CocoaGoddess]

The hell did WE do to deserve reliving variations of the exact same story/plot for three seasons in a row.

I feel comfortable proclaiming Barry as the worst superhero ever. 

[Jediknight]

Barry, you are an idiot.  Your future self told you not to do it, the Speed Force told you to let go of your mother's murder, and you had to screw it all up.  Kara better put him in his place when she sees him next season.  Come on Barry, you were smart when facing Zoom, and you turned around and did what you did.  You have no idea what you're about to unleash.

Wally and Jesse not getting speed was a surprise, I was expecting the Speed Force to grant them speed so they could help Barry.

[cambridgeguy]

Zoom: I want you to race me, Flash.

Everyone else: Well, clearly he's not stupid enough to do that.  You never do what the villain wants you to do.

Barry: Let's race!

You know Barry, if you're going to go back in time and save your dad how about going back in time a few days instead of 20 years and risking a much larger chunk of the timeline? 

[johntfs]

I didn't expect this, but after Harry 2 and Jesse (and Jay) I should have.  Now Tom Cavanagh gets to play the "real" Earth 1 Harrison Wells.  Then that guy will leave/die/something at the end of Season 3 and we'll meet the Earth 3 or whatever version of Harrison Wells in Season 4.  Maybe Iris will be a cop now since everything will be timely-wimely reconfigured.  Best way to think of The Flash is as a dumber, superhero version of Fringe.

 

Also figure that with this, the time-fuckery on Legends of Tomorrow and whatever magipocalypse goes down on Arrow tomorrow, there'll be plenty of wiggle room to explain that Supergirl is now part of the CW continuity.

Edited May 25, 2016 by johntfs

[CocoaGoddess]

Fringe was never this needlessly convoluted.

I still can't believe they ended the season on what was essentially Zoom challenging The Flash to a dance-off.

I'm feeling so salty and uncharitable towards the writers right now. 

[ruby24]

Okay, so here's the deal. I honestly...don't believe that this show has the guts to take away EVERYTHING that they've set up this whole time, and I feel that what's much more likely is that we spend the season premiere in this new universe, but then Barry somehow fixes it and ends up back in the present anyway.

Otherwise, are they really going to go through with starting the show over? And wouldn't this affect the other shows, like Arrow and Supergirl?

My best guess is that this will be a one-off situation somehow.

[Guest]

How do they even get to do this?  Doesn't The Flash wiping out reality screw up three different shows now that aren't the Flash.

[jmonique]

Just now, ParadoxLost said:

How do they even get to do this?  Doesn't The Flash wiping out reality screw up three different shows now that aren't the Flash.

I think they're ...

Spoiler

taking advantage of the Flashpoint storyline in order to knock the Supergirl universe into the same universe as Barry, Oliver and the Legends of Tomorrow.

[maczero]

15 minutes ago, nerdyduck said:

BARRY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?  Did the previous time travels not teach you anything?!?!?

Barry is going to keep shitting all over the timeline and start going back in time for the most trivial reasons.   Next season starts with Barry going back in time because he didn't use his Arby's coupon before it expired.

[Jenesis]

We all know Barry is....let's say, a brilliant guy that's not smart. But, I'm looking forward to the stories that will come about this change.

Iris was pretty OOC tonight. She was calmly letting her dad stay on Earth-2.

Damn, Caitlyn is a worse actress than Danielle Panabaker.

Ugh on the second WestAllen kiss to be wiped out of existence.

[Rai]

For the non-comics readers out there, is Flash running a race really that ridiculous?  I admit, I'm so used to being immersed in the conventions of comics I forget that non-readers may not be into the idea of that showcasing a running speedster's powers might be a more symbolic kind of competition rather than straight up fighting.  "Run, Barry, Run!" is a pretty iconic line at this point, and the Flash has run a lot of races in his series over the years.  Some friendly (Superman), some not. 

I guess I'm so used to seeing him run races in one way or the other that it makes sense to me.

[quarks]

Glad to see everyone shares my confusion!  And SEE what happens when you take out the Time Masters, Rip? THIS! THIS HAPPENS!

Thing is, assuming The Flash sticks with this, this doesn't just reset The Flash, right? It also resets Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, because if Barry really did reset time, and his mother isn't murdered, and his father doesn't go to jail, which means -

1. Barry has no reason to create his murder board and get interested in strange cases, which means

2. he doesn't show up on Arrow season two, which means 

3. Oliver Queen either dies after facing the Mirakuru soldiers or has his identity revealed if Felicity and Diggle take him to the hospital, and he's arrested, either of which means -

4. Roy dies in episode 209, which means -

5. Things just get more tangled from there.

[statsgirl]

I get the feeling that Barry keeps resetting the timeline because the writers are really limited in their ideas.  Wait, we're going to lose Tom Cavanaugh again?  Iris wants to be in a relationship with Barry?  We have to reset the timeline!!!!

Speaking of re-dos, not only did the Prophets give Barry his Speed Force, the Pah Wraiths very kindly took care of Zoom for him so he didn't have Zoom's blood on his hands.  I love Deep Space Nine more than any other Star Trek but I think AK should come up with something different for his show.

Iris/Barry once again fails for me.Candace Patton is trying as hard as anyone can, but until Barry becomes mature enough that he's not always  trying to fix his boyhood trauma over having adult relationships*, he'll never be adult enough for her no matter how much AK keeps shoving it as an OTP in my face. I can't remember the last time I disliked an OTP this much, and it's all in the writing of Barry.

 

*I know it's tough to have your mother die when you're young and your father in jail but he needs to get over it or be in serious therapy.  Joe was there for him, as we're repeatedly told, most recently by Wally who said "our father" (ew).  But last season Barry was willing to take the risk of destroying Earth and now he's resetting time and really, he has to deal with it or stop.

Edited May 25, 2016 by statsgirl

[phoenics]

2 minutes ago, quarks said:

Glad to see everyone shares my confusion!  And SEE what happens when you take out the Time Masters, Rip? THIS! THIS HAPPENS!

Thing is, assuming The Flash sticks with this, this doesn't just reset The Flash, right? It also resets Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, because if Barry really did reset time, and his mother isn't murdered, and his father doesn't go to jail, which means -

1. Barry has no reason to create his murder board and get interested in strange cases, which means

2. he doesn't show up on Arrow season two, which means 

3. Oliver Queen either dies after facing the Mirakuru soldiers or has his identity revealed if Felicity and Diggle take him to the hospital, and he's arrested, either of which means -

4. Roy dies in episode 209, which means -

5. Things just get more tangled from there.

It basically means we get Flashpoint.  Barry changed time from when he was 11 years old.

Technically they could "new 52" us and EVERY SHOW in Flarrow gets rebooted.  Like a new pilot for each show practically.  I don't know how this works - I think they would have to have Arrow, SG And Flash and all the LoT people on The Flash's S1 premiere... 

It means Laurel/BC isn't dead anymore.  We'll probably see the Arrow as Oliver's dad help Barry get his powers back so he can go back and reset time somehow.

I tend to think they might new 52 us now.  I hate that.

[Hook75]

1 minute ago, phoenics said:

it means Laurel/BC isn't dead anymore.  

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Damn you, Barry!

[phoenics]

Just now, Hook75 said:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Damn you, Barry!

LMAO!  Sorry - they might reset things after the premiere, but.... you just never know...  If they go with new 52 it could mean anything.

[Trini]

WestAllen feels: Awwww...Ahhhhhh...ARRRGGHHHHHH!!

Flashpoint Paradox! I can't believe they're actually going to attempt that. I figured they would have to do something big for Season 3, but this is a hard reset if they go through with it. Like Fringe Season 4, everything can be/is rewritten. I can't even talk about the rest of the episode right now.

21 minutes ago, Jenesis said:

Damn, Caitlyn is a worse actress than Danielle Panabaker.

I've never really had a problem with Danielle before, but WOW. That speech to Zoom was just BAD.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Trini
Can't spell, either!

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

WestAllen feels: Awwww...Ahhhhhh...ARRRGGHHHHHH!!

Flashpoint Paradox! I can't believe they're actually going to attempt that. I figured they would have to do something big for Season 3, but this is a hard reset if they go through with it. Like Fringe Season 4, everything can be/is rewritten. I can even talk about the rest of the episode right now.

I've never really had a problem with Danielle before, but WOW. That speech to Zoom was just BAD.

I think this is how they plan on pulling Supergirl into the Flarrow universe...  If you look at Flashpoint, you'll see how/why.  But I think even if things get reset, it's still going to be "different".

They are going to merge all of the worlds... E1, E2 and E3.

[chelsie]

For a show that's trying to push a big romance between Iris and Barry, they seem to enjoy highlighting the fact that they practically grew up as siblings. Was it necessary to have Wally say "our dad" when correcting Barry in relation to Joe? Iris does it as well. This is something they should try to play down a little.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I tend to think they might new 52 us now.  I hate that.

I don't think they can pull that off.  Its too big a gamble pissing of audiences of four shows simultaneously.  Audiences like their continuity.  Its doubtful that one show can turn itself on its head and be better.  Four shows, no way.  Add to that the feeling that there are no consequences and a reboot could happen at anytime.  Just, no.

And if I were a viewer of any of the other three and didn't watch Flash I would be super unhappy enough if another show that I didn't watch rebooted one I did.

If they don't undo this after an episode, then I think they'll go the route of the universe trying to regain equilibrium enough that changes to the other shows are minimal.  Supergirl ends up in the same verse.  But Barry has slightly delayed childhood trauma that is enough to give the same motivations that spurred Arrow interaction.  He still becomes the Flash, etc.

[Minneapple]

The time travel storylines make me dizzy. Stop it.

Quote

Technically they could "new 52" us and EVERY SHOW in Flarrow gets rebooted.  Like a new pilot for each show practically.  I don't know how this works - I think they would have to have Arrow, SG And Flash and all the LoT people on The Flash's S1 premiere... 

Okay, this might actually be kind of interesting. But you know what I hate about it? It kind of cheapens everything that has happened so far. It also becomes really stupid, like if Barry can travel back in time and undo xxx storyline, why wouldn't he do the same every time something got fucked up? YAWN, LET'S JUST UNDO IT ALL WITH TIME TRAVEL. 

[SevenStars]

3 minutes ago, chelsie said:

For a show that's trying to push a big romance between Iris and Barry, they seem to enjoy highlighting the fact that they practically grew up as siblings. Was it necessary to have Wally say "our dad" when correcting Barry in relation to Joe? Iris does it as well. This is something they should try to play down a little.

I don't think it will ever be play down because I think the writers love and see Joe/Barry's relationship as more important than Iris/Barry. 

[madhacker]

yes the new 52 comic witch just so happens to be ending tomorrow with issue 1 of "Rebirth" witch is basically setting everything back to the way it was before the reboot (as in Clark Kent and Lois Lane are married again with a tween son named Jonathan (new Superboy). Wonder Woman is back to being the blessed by the Olympian Gods and not the daughter of Zeus. I could go on but this is off topic)

Wow I was so geared up for a great setup/cliffhanger and we basically got Flashpoint. Wow after hanging around Cisco, you'd think Barry would know better than to mess up the time line. This is gonna blow up in his face, big time. But I will say this....Grant continued to rock it with the emotional scenes tonight, especially when he saw the real Jay was his dad's doppelganger.

[phoenics]

2 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

I don't think it will ever be play down because I think the writers love and see Joe/Barry's relationship as more important than Iris/Barry. 

It would disappear altogether if they go the new 52 route and merge all 3 universes simultaneously.  They could make it so they don't grow up together, etc..  it could end up more like E2 Westallen or .. I dunno, lol.  My brain hurts, actually.

I think it's a no brainer that when Barry gets back from his little time jaunt, things will be really messed up.  And if they go by Flashpoint, then

He will work with Oliver's dad (who is Arrow in that timeline) to get his powers back and then reset the timeline... but then when he goes back to reset the timeline, the 3 earths get merged and we end up with things being slightly different in Barry's world - maybe he and Iris don't grow up together, etc.. but if it merges with E2 then they will still be in each other's orbits... Alternately, this could be how we end up with Killer Frost too.  Wally West getting his speed too.  And Jesse Quick.  So much could happen. 

So - we'll see what happens... I am excited, but also scared.  They could mess up a lot with this.

[Trini]

If they want to follow Flashpoint, this should affect all the other shows, BUT, they could also just make it so that now Flash is a new universe/timeline. And maybe only changes to "Arrow", "Supergirl", and "Legends" only happen on Flash. (...if we can get those castmembers off their shows and on to this one...)

[phoenics]

Just now, Trini said:

If they want to follow Flashpoint, this should affect all the other shows, BUT, they could also just make it so that now Flash is a new universe/timeline. And maybe only changes to "Arrow", "Supergirl", and "Legends" only happen on Flash. (...if we can get those castmembers off their shows and on to this one...)

Aargh that would just be so confusing.

[Trini]

15 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I think this is how they plan on pulling Supergirl into the Flarrow universe...  If you look at Flashpoint, you'll see how/why.  But I think even if things get reset, it's still going to be "different".

They are going to merge all of the worlds... E1, E2 and E3.

I wonder how much this would have affected Supergirl if it had stayed on CBS?