S02.E22: Chapter Forty-Four

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, LaughingOne said:

I agree that Michael is probably going to have amnesia or a personality change or something that blows up the marriage

....personality change is what would make me mad. I love Michael for who he is, so I'm afraid that they'll change his personality that'll blow up the marriage. I would rather a coma/amnesia plot than death or a major personality change (even if temporary). I know Brett Dier would knock it out of the park, but having that image of Michael tapping into his violent outbursts and magnifying it by ten? That would really not settle well with me. 

[Go1dy]

Anyone else notice that the "blood" was black where if he was shot directly in the heart it should be bright red. I'm suss on this and think there is going to be some twist and he had something in his pocket which protects him to some extent.

[LaughingOne]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

....personality change is what would make me mad. I love Michael for who he is, so I'm afraid that they'll change his personality that'll blow up the marriage. I would rather a coma/amnesia plot than death or a major personality change (even if temporary). I know Brett Dier would knock it out of the park, but having that image of Michael tapping into his violent outbursts and magnifying it by ten? That would really not settle well with me. 

Eh, they'll just change his personality back once they decide to shift the triangle back to Michael. I mean, it would just be a device to inject some drama and re-set the table, for awhile at least.

[Anisky]

Just now, Go1dy said:

Anyone else notice that the "blood" was black where if he was shot directly in the heart it should be bright red. I'm suss on this and think there is going to be some twist and he had something in his pocket which protects him to some extent.

I did notice that, yeah. It might have just been the gunpowder? 

[AnnaRose]

13 hours ago, possibilities said:

Xo needs to have an abortion. Please, show. Please.

If Rogelio wants kids, why is he basically screwing around, and not actually making any kind of concrete plan, either to be a single dad or to find a partner who is into being a mother? I know the biological clock is not as big a deal for men as it is for women, but still-- he's all tell, no show, in this area.

Has anyone seen that movie about the author with locked in syndrome? I can't remember the name of it. But there are ways to help people communicate, using eye blinks. I am hoping Petra will be able to do that-- this is not the way they did it in the movie I saw, but I'm thinking it would be fun if she uses morse code. And who knows what was in the syringe Anezka used? Maybe it's temporary, or they can find an antidote. Still-- the heartbreak of being betrayed by her sister would be as bad as the paralysis (it's not a coma; she's awake, just paralyzed).

I agree with you about Xo, and also, if Rogellio is so intent on having a baby... it doesn't seem like Dina is a very good prospect for that.   He should have just stayed with Xo, in that case.

About the drug used on Petra:

Spoiler

Also, in the article linked previously, the show producer mentioned that the drug used on Petra is temporary, and Anezka will have to keep administering it to keep Petra petrified.  I am hoping they resolve that quickly, because it is just too horrible to contemplate a person being in that situation.  Poor Petra!

Edited May 17, 2016 by AnnaRose
added spoiler tags

[Go1dy]

6 minutes ago, Anisky said:

I did notice that, yeah. It might have just been the gunpowder? 

Maybe but unlikely gunpowder would look like that especially since it wasn't point blank, it looked more liquid to me like ink or something 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Go1dy
Spelling error

[twoods]

9 minutes ago, Go1dy said:

Anyone else notice that the "blood" was black where if he was shot directly in the heart it should be bright red. I'm suss on this and think there is going to be some twist and he had something in his pocket which protects him to some extent.

This gives me hope that Michael figured out who Suzanna really was and was wearing a vest and faking his own death. One can hope...right? 

[Go1dy]

11 minutes ago, twoods said:

This gives me hope that Michael figured out who Suzanna really was and was wearing a vest and faking his own death. One can hope...right? 

I don't think he figured it out until that moment and it was unlikely when he was finally about to have sex with Jane his mind would be on the job but I definitely don't think that was blood and that he is definitely not dead and whatever it was cushioned the blow from the bullet!

but I do think you are on the right track with faking his death as he didn't react and go down till a moment after whatever it was exploded from his top.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Go1dy

[mwell345]

I've been reading the speculation about Michael on these boards but refused to believe it (they wouldn't do that) until he said he was going to get ice.  Then I knew.  (But I don't think he's dead either - he'll be mourned (or missing if someone moved the body), Jane will fall back in with Rafael, Petra's twin will go ballistic (oh, and poor Petra) - then in true soap opera fashion, Michael will return probably just as Jane is walking down the aisle for her second wedding).

On a lighter note, I could watch Rogelio all day. Bruno Mars is his "3rd best friend".  And when he took the tissue out and patted his face down before Jane's, then, of course, the dance.  It's just so much fun to watch him.

Great finale all around!

[Gin and Tonic]

I've decided my favorite part of the finale is that Jane didn't change her last name. and it was treated like no big deal - they didn't even have an in-show conversation about it beforehand!

[NeenerNeener]

So, since this is a telenovella/soap opera I fully expected Jane to still be a virgin when Season 3 starts, which meant something dire had to happen to Michael on their wedding night. And, it being a soap opera, he won't really die, even if everyone thinks he did.

Xo having an "Este-bun in the oven" after having sex once with her true love's nemesis is classic soap opera too, as is the twin switch and Susanna being Sin Rostro. I'm really looking forward to Season 3.

Edited May 17, 2016 by NeenerNeener

[AudienceofOne]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also...narrator, I didn't see the #Petrafied coming until it was too late. And dare I say it, I kind of laughed. That's a perfect example of black comedy.

I laughed out loud - raucously in fact - in several places during this episode and I'm not ashamed to say that #Petrafied was one of them. I loved this episode. The wedding was amazing. But, like most season finales (this was the finale, right?) it struck a few wrong notes for me at the end. They usually do in these types of shows because they always go a bit overboard in the lead up to the next season.

1. The ongoing Rafael torture porn. I feel like no person should have to endure what he's endured. And for him to be raped was just too much

2. Michael's shooting was so predictable and so telegraphed and so obviously timed to be before sex that it had no resonance for me. I knew Michael was going to be removed somehow before he and Jane could have sex. It was just the mechanics that remained to be seen

3. Petra's 'locked in' syndrome is nightmarish. Like Mateo's kidnapping last season, I hope it's resolved quickly in next season because it's pretty horrific.

I personally hated the Sin Rostro/Susanna mask thing because it was so ridiculous but, as someone above pointed out, it was almost too ridiculous to the point of being perfect.

[Bouffe]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't even know what Magda's plan is by having Petra drugged and paralyzed and Anezka posing as Petra. 

I wasn't quite sure about Magda's plan when we saw her conspire with Aneska. But after last night... To me it seems like Magda wants Petra to reunite with Rafael so they can get to his money. So she is using Aneska as Petra to get to that point.

[Phebemarie]

Since we have no spoiler thread, I'm going to try to use tags and put my speculation here:  

Spoiler

I read a recent article by the show runner saying that Jane wouldn't be a virgin for long into season 3.  There's only two ways that could happen.  Huge time jump (which would mean we'd lose the adorable little guy playing Mateo) or Michael recovers and they consummate their vows.  

By the way, it would be fun to add a spoiler/speculation thread.  

[mrsbagnet]

3 hours ago, Gin and Tonic said:

I've decided my favorite part of the finale is that Jane didn't change her last name. and it was treated like no big deal - they didn't even have an in-show conversation about it beforehand!

I loved that! That moment at weddings when they introduce "for the first time, Mr. and Mrs. _________" always get a massive eye-roll from me, so I was relieved that they didn't do that.

I also liked the sex basket scene. From Alba's "don't lie to me" look to Rogelio's "I know a sex basket when I see one!"

Quote

Can't take anymore unexpected pregnancies in this show.

They have overplayed their hand with that trope. Now we have "Xo the eternal fuck-up" plus another pregnancy. That is too much. For Xo to have Esteban's baby and keep it and raise it would blow up so many lives and relationships on this show that I'm not sure if I want to watch that. Plus, we already have 3 babies. For Xo to have an abortion seems the most appropriate resolution, but that will probably only happen if she doesn't tell Alba and Jane about it. Maybe we can hold out hope for a false positive pregnancy test, but I doubt it.

It just occurred to me that maybe Michael's death is temporary. His heart could stop but he could be revived. So the foreshadowing wouldn't be wrong, but we wouldn't have a tragedy either.

Edited May 17, 2016 by mrsbagnet

[Bouffe]

This was a great finale! I read an article with Justin Baldoni who said season 2 finale would blow season 1 finale out of the water. I don't know which one was better, but season 2 finale definitely delivered! I loved this episode.

Everything was going way too well (despite the chaos!) throughout the episode and that put me on edge. I was waiting for something to stop the wedding, for something to make Jane not marry Michael, for something... The fact that Jane kept saying she can't waste time on something she is not passionate about, the fact that she kept putting things ahead of her wedding, etc... All of that also contributed to make me thing the wedding wouldn't happen. But no.  So of course when Michael went out for ice, like most of you, I knew something bad was about to happen. I did not see Susanna being Rose coming at all until she didn't respond to the roll tide line. And then of course it all happened.

I'm TeamRafael all the way, but show, please don't kill Michael! Plus Rogelio will be devastated.

But, so many great moments in this finale!

-Rogelio in wedding coordinator mode, "Matelio" being his assistant. In matching "...OTB" lavender t-shirts!

-Jane calling Rafael so he can see his son walk for the first time. It was sweet beyond sweet.

-The veil story. I was expecting Jane to be angry/upset, but then they all started laughing... Loved it.

-Jane's advisor is warming up to her! And I think Jane is finally realizing she needs to be herself around her and not act like a different person just to please her advisor. That scene in the bathroom was nicely done.

-Xo/Esteban/Rogelio and the tale of the sex basket. Rogelio grabbed the "este-buns". He grabbed the buns! LOL!!!

-Rafael. I want him to be with Jane. But not telling her how he feels on her big day was what he needed to do. Selflessness. Finally some growth from his character. It broke my heart, but I enjoyed it too, paradoxically.

-Michael saying his vows in spanish. I'll admit that made me tear up a bit. :)

-The Jane and Rogelio show throughout the episode was just amazing! I loved it all, from the bus ride to the father/bride dance. And Bruno Mars! Ro's third best friend! LOL

-RealPetra just cannot catch a break. I feel terrible for her. She's trying hard to be a better person, and that moment with Elsa when she laughed... It was so touching. Typical soap opera plot to have an evil twin, but somehow what Aneska did to Petra felt so much more horrible than expected. I did laugh at the "Petra-fied" hashtag, not gonna lie!

-FakePetra (or Petraska?) having sex with Rafael was just so... Ewwwww. I hope she doesn't get pregnant. Ewwwww.

-Xo pregnant with Esteban's baby... Double ewwwwwww. I don't see this ending in an abortion at all. Either she has the baby or she miscarry. I'm with a few of you - I hope she doesn't have the baby. Too many babies!

-Feel soooooo bad for Luisa. :(

I can't even speculate on what may happen next season. If Michael is dead, I don't see how the show can bring Rafael and Jane back together without making it feel like he's a second choice. If Michael survives, how are they going to separate Michael and Jane and not make her be a giant asshole about the whole thing? Luisa, Rose, Derek, Mutter...  What's happening there? Xo? Petraska? I wanna know NOW!!!!! LOL

[elle]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't have much hope that's what they'll do mainly because I think the sperm stealing, especially the second time, was really glossed over and so Jennie could create her "frankenfamily." 

The "first time" wasn't an actual theft.  Weren't Raf and Petra waiting in another exam room for Luisa when she drunkenly-mistakenly went to Jane's exam room instead?

8 hours ago, jjj said:

I thought that was one of the sweetest wedding ceremonies I've ever seen on television.  The tiny nod from Alba to Michael, then the Spanish, told us how many hours they had worked on that surprise.

Loved that!

35 minutes ago, Bouffe said:

To me it seems like Magda wants Petra to reunite with Rafael so they can get to his money. So she is using Aneska as Petra to get to that point.

I'm still betting that Aneska will not be as compliable as Magda wants.  I think Aneska would be willing to even go against her mother to keep her "dream family" together.

5 hours ago, mwell345 said:

On a lighter note, I could watch Rogelio all day. Bruno Mars is his "3rd best friend".  And when he took the tissue out and patted his face down before Jane's, then, of course, the dance.  It's just so much fun to watch him.

Yes, I agree!  I think Rogelio and watching his interactions with everyone is why I love this show so much.

 

Is there any chance that Xo's baby could be Rogelio's?

[Bouffe]

Just now, elle said:

The "first time" wasn't an actual theft.  Weren't Raf and Petra waiting in another exam room for Luisa when she drunkenly-mistakenly went to Jane's exam room instead?

 

No. Petra went behind Rafael's back for that first time, too.

[Thog]

Quote

Is there any chance that Xo's baby could be Rogelio's?

I was just coming here to say that! I don't remember when they last had sex, but it would resolve a lot of problems if it turns out she's actually farther along than she thought (or if Esteban is actually infertile, but they did say he used a condom). The only one who wouldn't be happy is Xiomara. Mateo could have play dates with his uncle! I just can't believe a mature, sexually active woman who is sure she wants no more kids is not on birth control.

[DianeDobbler]

What they did to Petra is basically what happens to people with ALS - another reason it's so horrifying. I want her to get over Rafael already, and her sister sleeping with him just prolongs it. Surely there's a rich guy out there who'd be into a gorgeous, uptight woman with twin girls who knows her way around the Miami hotel scene and high finance - a rich guy who wasn't a depraved, violent criminal sleazebag. Everyone Petra has been with is so incredibly sleazy, Rafael looks heroic by comparison, and he's not. I want her to get some kind of break, ever since she survived her ordeal with Zaz and only got that on-site hug with Michael as comfort. I don't expect Rafael to get the slightest suspicion about Anezka/Petra. Probably Jane will figure it out/make the save.

As to Jane's virginity

Spoiler

She will lose it before the end of S3, according to the showrunner's post-finale interview. The showrunner said something like Jane's virginity doesn't define her, so it's not something she wants to pressure by making it the centerpiece of a finale or any other plot point highlight. The show runner also said next season would have a different structure than the first two seasons. I am guessing it will no longer be formatted around a triangle (which would be incredibly smart. A lot of shows have run themselves into the ground setting and re-setting the same triangle. At some point you have to call it, and end the series, or you have to re-structure the show. Indefinitely re-setting a triangle doesn't work.)

The 1980s soap opera Falcon Crest had Richard Channing fake his death to protect his family. He allowed himself to be assassinated by his enemy. Here, Michael has made enemies of high up people in organized crime, and Nadine has pointed out a bunch of times they get you through their family. Maybe he wore a Kevlar vest and tricked Rose somehow (or a squib, and Rose's gun had blanks). Maybe Jane's in on it, or she isn't. Michael's been undercover before. This could be something Michael and law enforcement set up between the wedding and the wedding night, after they figured out Susanna was Rose.

Edited May 17, 2016 by DianeDobbler

[Lady Calypso]

42 minutes ago, Bouffe said:

I can't even speculate on what may happen next season. If Michael is dead, I don't see how the show can bring Rafael and Jane back together without making it feel like he's a second choice. If Michael survives, how are they going to separate Michael and Jane and not make her be a giant asshole about the whole thing? Luisa, Rose, Derek, Mutter...  What's happening there? Xo? Petraska? I wanna know NOW!!!!! LOL

This is why the only way I could be more on board with Rafael/Jane is if Michael lives, does have a personality change, the doctors say it's permanent (it's not), Michael breaks up with Jane or Jane breaks up with Michael (well now I guess it's divorce), and then a couple of months pass. I still wouldn't be happy, but it's my best case scenario. It'll still feel like Rafael is second choice, though, which is a problem. I don't know if there's a way around that. I can't see Jane opting to break things off with Michael that quickly, and it would be too awful to have Michael do a personality change and make him a jerk just so they can divorce. It's just a bad situation all around for this love triangle, because they made it impossible to have all three come out looking good, even with fanwanking Michael having a personality change as a result of the shooting. I guess the other option is amesia and having distance being drawn there, but Jane would still come out of this looking just as bad if she decided to choose Rafael after amnesia and a divorce. 

So yeah, show, if you're still committed to Jane/Rafael, you got a tricky situation here. One that they've dug themselves in before with Michael/Jane/Rafael. 

42 minutes ago, Thog said:

I was just coming here to say that! I don't remember when they last had sex, but it would resolve a lot of problems if it turns out she's actually farther along than she thought (or if Esteban is actually infertile, but they did say he used a condom). The only one who wouldn't be happy is Xiomara. Mateo could have play dates with his uncle! I just can't believe a mature, sexually active woman who is sure she wants no more kids is not on birth control.

It's why I can't get on board with another baby. Xo has been so adamant on not having children. It wouldn't feel right if she had the baby, nor would it feel right if she changed her mind. I love that she doesn't want another baby. I would absolutely loathe the idea of her changing her mind, especially with this causing so many problems with her and Rogelio. So the only way for this to end well for me is Xo having an abortion. Plus, it might teach viewers something. I know it's a complicated and touchy subject, but I think it needs to be done. 

[natyxg]

59 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

The 1980s soap opera Falcon Crest had Richard Channing fake his death to protect his family. He allowed himself to be assassinated by his enemy. Here, Michael has made enemies of high up people in organized crime, and Nadine has pointed out a bunch of times they get you through their family. Maybe he wore a Kevlar vest and tricked Rose somehow (or a squib, and Rose's gun had blanks). Maybe Jane's in on it, or she isn't. Michael's been undercover before. This could be something Michael and law enforcement set up between the wedding and the wedding night, after they figured out Susanna was Rose.

 

I doubt it. The flashbacks and the whatever phrase that tipped Michael off that Susana was the mole meant that Michael figured it out at that very moment.

[maraleia]

Help me out here- when did Susanna show up? Was it after Rose left? If so that should've been the warning bell that she wasn't who she said she was.

[tennisgurl]

That was lovely, funny, touching, and oh my GOD my heart hurts. Poor Petra. Poor Michael. I refuse to believe Michael is dead. No one on TV is dead until we have seen a corpse (and sometimes not even then), so I am living in the land of denial until it has been 100% confirmed that Michael is for real dead. Have I mentioned my heart hurts? This season of TV has just been BRUTAL y'all. Its like every writer on TV took a writing seminar taught by George RR Martin.  

The whole wedding was so wonderful. I admit, I teared up when Michael started speaking from Spanish (and the nod from Alba), and I teared up even more when Jane told Rogelio that she never dreamed that she would get to dance with her father at her wedding, I am just really emotional right now. 

Petra better get saved soon. Evil Twin and Magna can just go straight to hell. 

Great season, even though the death anvils hit me over the head a few times gave me a headache. What will I do now without my Jane fix?   

[elle]

2 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

ever since she survived her ordeal with Zaz

Was that the Ukrainian (?) arms dealer that blackmailed her into marrying him?  Wasn't he deported?  Are they still technically married?

2 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

What they did to Petra is basically what happens to people with ALS - another reason it's so horrifying.

Yes, so true.  That #petrafied has such a double meaning!

[AnnaRose]

3 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

They have overplayed their hand with that trope. Now we have "Xo the eternal fuck-up" plus another pregnancy. That is too much. For Xo to have Esteban's baby and keep it and raise it would blow up so many lives and relationships on this show that I'm not sure if I want to watch that. Plus, we already have 3 babies. For Xo to have an abortion seems the most appropriate resolution, but that will probably only happen if she doesn't tell Alba and Jane about it. Maybe we can hold out hope for a false positive pregnancy test, but I doubt it.

It just occurred to me that maybe Michael's death is temporary. His heart could stop but he could be revived. So the foreshadowing wouldn't be wrong, but we wouldn't have a tragedy either.

 

I wouldn't want to watch that either.

If they go with any kind of amnesia, Michael will have to have died briefly first so that the "he loved her until the day he died" thing remains true.

[DianeDobbler]

I still maintain Michael faked his death to protect his family, and tricked Rose (this show gives us limited information all the time - including holding back on flashbacks, and holding back on context for moments like a "realization"). And whether or not Jane knows is going to be a mystery for a short time in S3. Or at least, it sets up perfectly for that to be the case. We got enough emphasis from Nadine beseeching Michael to understand that Sin Rostro gets to people through their families.

Rogelio/Xo - this story is unconvincing from Rogelio's point of view. The man has had 24 years to become a father with someone in circumstances where he could be there from birth - he didn't do anything. He's not taking steps now. Sure, he supposedly wants a baby with Xo, so it can be wanked that he's been hoping she'd change her mind. But that doesn't account for the fact he hit fortysomething and still had no bio child, nor did he adopt any. So I don't find his desire to raise a child from birth, believable. He's much more believable as a loveable "Papa." Sure, men are biologically capable of reproducing for a longer time than women, although they, too, risk having a less than optimum outcome if they wait until mid life and beyond. But, their longer period of fertility does absolutely nothing for mortality, and if Rogelio has a kid when he's middle aged, he'll be a senior citizen when the kid is graduating from college, and just in general have a less than vibrant parental experience and an even less vibrant grandfather experience.

This is the second show converted from a telenova (the other being Ugly Betty) where the writers didn't follow the premise, and there were fans who showed up to see the premise fulfilled (that the poor, but strong and loving girl, would get with the "poor" little rich boy, teaching him about life along the way), and were frustrated when that wasn't the story they got.

 I believe the issues here are the original telenovas were short form, and American situation comedies can go on forever. The other issue is both Ugly Betty and Jane the Virgin are tackling the premise from a strongly feminist viewpoint, which serves as a block to the Cinderella story behind the premise. Sure, the whole "poor little rich man-boy" deal glosses up the Cinderella fantasy so people can have it both ways - She gets a rich, handsome playboy, tames his playboy ways, fulfills the Cinderella story all the while it is spun as HER rescuing him. Still, it's a huge Cinderella fantasy with tremendous vicarious ego gratification. For me, another issue was that with Ugly Betty and with this show, the casting of the playboy was off. Both actors in the rich guy role lacked that irresistible charisma and charm that made that sort of character plausible. For me, Gina Rodriguez/Jane is the leading lady. There are three leading men (Rogilio, Michael, Rafael). Arguably, Xo and Alba have even larger, more important roles than the leading men. And of course there's Petra, whose role has been expanded. So essentially I don't see this show as having one leading man.

Edited May 17, 2016 by DianeDobbler

[Primetimer]

Jane Gloriana Villanueva prepares to make her fateful walk down the aisle. And because it's a telenovela, her path cannot be smooth.

View the full article

[natyxg]

57 minutes ago, AnnaRose said:

I wouldn't want to watch that either.

If they go with any kind of amnesia, Michael will have to have died briefly first so that the "he loved her until the day he died" thing remains true.

Yeah, I guess an alternative could be that he does die briefly and then has amnesia, so technically that "prophecy" does happen. but, frankly, I would hate that. I like Michael and Jane a lot, and while that would save Michael's life, it would destroy them, just to bring Rafael/Jane into play again. I'd rather he died loving Jane until the end, and their love story is a pretty one with a tragic ending, rather than the clusterfuck it would become in order for Jane to end with Rafael. Plus, I'm so tired of that infernal triangle, I'd rather it ended here.

Edited May 17, 2016 by natyxg

[galax-arena]

Oops nm, I was getting this ep mixed up with last week's. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by galax-arena

[stet]

So no one noticed Charo in the church as, indeed, a bridesmaid? (Would that make her Rogelio's second-best friend?)

[commadrama]

10 minutes ago, stet said:

So no one noticed Charo in the church as, indeed, a bridesmaid? (Would that make her Rogelio's second-best friend?)

I noticed her name showing up in the beginning credits (I expected her to be the performer at the reception, honestly), but I got so caught up in the other goings-on that I missed her! That's funny. Love that she didn't have that big of a role in this episode but she was still part of the wedding!

Edited May 17, 2016 by commadrama

[AnnaRose]

27 minutes ago, stet said:

So no one noticed Charo in the church as, indeed, a bridesmaid? (Would that make her Rogelio's second-best friend?)

I saw her.  It was a blink or you miss it kind of thing.  I thought she was going to be the one performing.

[allonsyalice]

1) Lea Salonga and Bruno Mars. the CW is pulling out all the stops for fictional weddings (#WeddingGoals)

2) At this point, I'm shipping Jane and Good Life Choices That Make Her Happy. Being said, I really hope Michael doesn't die. I'm sure he won't. coma, maybe. I knew the was coming the moment he was like "I gotta go get ice" Michael, no!

3) It was super dusty in here when Michael recited his vows in Spanish. No it wasn't. It made me cry, and I'm crying literally thinking about it (#SuperRomantic)

4) This Aneska (Anezka?) Plot went daaarrk. We gotta save Rafael. (Although, I did get a good giggle at "#Petrafied")

5) I actually didn't see that Sin Rostro twist coming and now I feel stupid, honestly. Of course. OF COURSE. 

6) I do not want a time jump to happen because that means we'll lose that adorable Mateo. Cutest baby on TV ever hands down.

[Thog]

OK, I have to ask. Why are characters on TV always going to get ice as part of their trysts? Am I doing sex wrong?

[AudienceofOne]

Also the whole 'ice bucket' thing is peculiarly American. So I have no frame of reference for it. All I know is that TV Americans in hotels are constantly going to "get ice" and I never know from where. Or why for that matter. Of all the hotels I've stayed in all over the world, I can't think of a single occasion where I've thought "what I desperately need now is some ice, if only I had some sort of bucket for it". I remember watching from Dusk to Dawn in the 90s and the Geckos coming to the room and going, "My lady friend and I need ice and I don't have an ice bucket!" and literally going "WTF is an ice bucket, what do you do with it and why would you ever need it?"

[cailinoBAC]

So I can never watch this until the day after it's shown and usually I ended up being spoiled, my own fault because I would try to get a sense of whether it was a good week or bad week. Today I avoided as much as possible, but on my way home I did see this headline:

http://flavorwire.com/576525/jane-the-virgin-finale-the-10-best-things-about-jane-and-michaels-wedding

and that seemed to be ok, so I was looking forward to it and didn't feel so worried about Michael's fate. As with most people I knew the thing we feared was happening as soon as he mentioned going for ice, but I have to hope that since we don't see a body he's still going to be alive.

But I do worry about something I read in an earlier article, where it was mentioned that they already knew how the whole series was going to end, I think that the ending had been planned since the beginning? This gives me 'How I Met Your Mother' fears, where the creators are so attached to their ending that they stick to it, even when the show has developed in a different direction and it no longer fits. I find it hard to believe that the originally planned ending would have been Jane/Michael, so I have to hope that either I'm wrong and it was (no matter what twists we have to go through to get there) or if it wasn't it's not too late for them to change their minds!

[possibilities]

I can't get on board with another baby. Xo has been so adamant on not having children. It wouldn't feel right if she had the baby, nor would it feel right if she changed her mind. I love that she doesn't want another baby. I would absolutely loathe the idea of her changing her mind, especially with this causing so many problems with her and Rogelio. So the only way for this to end well for me is Xo having an abortion.... I know it's a complicated and touchy subject, but I think it needs to be done.

I agree with this 10 trillion times over.

[Thalia]

Tara's review:  

Quote

(though the fact that this supervillain decided to pose as an Alabamian without learning about "Roll Tide!" is; even I know that and I'm CANADIAN);

Yeah, this.  Susannah was supposedly from TUSCALOOSA.  Her not knowing about the Tide is like someone from Knoxville, like me, not knowing about Big Orange Country.  Also, to be sexist for a moment, Michael is a dude and I found it incredible that he also seemed oblivious.  Has he not watched a National Championship game in the recent past?  Has he not watched a football game, ever?  Has he ever seen a football?  

Edited May 17, 2016 by Thalia

[Lee4U]

I actually like it if they know how the show is going to go - to me, that is a true investment and trust in your product and then you can work from that overall design; I watched Castle and man, what they did to that poor mangled show over the past few years is the classic case of what happens when they begin to just throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks and then if it doesn't, come up with some other inexplicable stupid thing that makes no sense for the show or characters.

I know this is just two seasons in but they - for me - have been stellar.  No guarantee that will continue - but, maybe if they do have a plan and keep it as the framework, I'm thinking that could be a good thing.

[mwell345]

Quote

Is there any chance that Xo's baby could be Rogelio's?

I'm wondering the same thing....I would love for it to be Rogelio's.

I also liked the way Jane was walked down the aisle - at first I was like "Where's Rogelio" but I thought it was nice that her mother and grandmother walked her to him and he took her to Michael.  And loved, loved, loved, the Bro-mance hug!

[elle]

4 hours ago, stet said:

So no one noticed Charo in the church as, indeed, a bridesmaid? (Would that make her Rogelio's second-best friend?)

I missed that!  Is there an convenient screen shot?

Quote

ane has always held it together through each calamity, and with the finale's flashback story, we find out why: since Jane was a little girl, she's loved the story of Alba's perfectly imperfect wedding, at which Alba broke a heel just as she was starting her walk down the aisle.

Snipped from the recap - I just noticed in the clip accompanying this quote, how much young Alba looks like Jane.  That "I'll make it work" smirk/smile when she was kicking off her shoes was a double of the one we see Jane do so often.

[Gin and Tonic]

Rewatched it, and, ugh. The wedding was really just pitch perfect in every way. I'll be very disappointed if Michael is dead because I love his goofy faces and his breakdancing and what he brings to the Villanueva family. And I'm including Rogelio in that.

I generally find Justin Baldoni the weakest actor in the cast, but I thought he did very well in this episode. His reaction to Luisa's "just light hand play" was both subtle and hilarious, and I thought he was great in his fantasy sequence too.

Also, loved the dress. Romantic and pretty, but also wonderfully fluid in the funnier parts like running down the street and the little curb hop.

Wishlist for next season: Michael isn't dead, but the triangle is. Luisa ditches Rose. C'mon writers. This woman killed her father. You've mined it for its humor. Now it's just creepy. Rafael moves on from Jane and catches a goddamn break. Petra's waking nightmare is given at least a little beat of acknowledgment for the horror it is.

Rogelio keeps on keeping on.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Gin and Tonic

[AudienceofOne]

8 minutes ago, Gin and Tonic said:

. Luisa ditches Rose like a bad habit. C'mon writers. This woman killed her father. You've mined it for its humor. Now it's just creepy.

I think the thing I don't like about this is that I thought for a moment that the show was actually going to show us a functional lesbian relationship. I've suspected that Susannah was too good to be true for a while now and that she was somehow involved with the greater crime lord plotline. But I was hoping she wasn't because I a) wanted Luisa to have a functional lesbian relationship and b) liked the idea that a TV show had more than two lesbians in it. I'm not gay and even I can see this has been a bad year for LGBT representation.

[AnnaRose]

1 hour ago, mwell345 said:

I'm wondering the same thing....I would love for it to be Rogelio's.

I also liked the way Jane was walked down the aisle - at first I was like "Where's Rogelio" but I thought it was nice that her mother and grandmother walked her to him and he took her to Michael.  And loved, loved, loved, the Bro-mance hug!

I would love for it to be Rogelio's, also.  The showrunner addressed this in the interview on ew.com, if you want to be spoiled - http://www.ew.com/jane-the-virgin-season-2-finale-postmortem/2:

Spoiler

You just said she doesn’t want to parent with her child’s dad. Does that mean Esteban is the father?
Yes. She hasn’t slept with Rogelio in a little while.

[femmefan1946]

So no one noticed Charo in the church as, indeed, a bridesmaid? (Would that make her Rogelio's second-best friend?)
Thank you. That was bothering me

   "WTF is an ice bucket, what do you do with it and why would you ever need it?"
     Americans drink beverages very cold. So every hotel has at least one ice machine along with a  canned pop machine and usually a snacks machine.
     The bucket holds about a litre of ice cubes. There are glasses in the room.
    Micheal thought the champagne had warmed up too much. Like above freezing, so he wanted to plunge it into fresh cold ice.
   
   So the only way for this to end well for me is Xo having an abortion.... I know it's a complicated and touchy subject, but I think it needs to be done.
    Yes, she has to be a willing mother to a wanted child. She is neither.
  
    Also, loved the dress.
     And it was modest. Not one of these hoochie mama strapless things that drop off when the bride blushes.

[AudienceofOne]

Australians have these things called refrigerators. They often have freezers as well. I guess that's where the cultural difference comes from

[Nanrad]

I love JtV, but I don't think I can continue watching if Michael is dead (or have amnesia or a personality transplant)--that's too much for me. I enjoy Michael as a stand alone character, but his interactions with Jane are the major reasons I watch the show. The two actors play well off of each other and I love the dynamic between the characters. Michael saying their vows in Spanish, the list before the wedding night, etc--there's a tons of shit that I can't even think of. It's not just that he loves Jane, but he understands her as well and they're on the same page. 

And I was terrified for Michael the entire time--like I thought either Jane was going to leave him at the alter or he would've been killed at the wedding. But, I just want him to live, do some detectiving, and be happy with Jane and Mateo. :'(

1 minute ago, AudienceofOne said:

Australians have these things called refrigerators. They often have freezers as well. I guess that's where the cultural difference comes from

It's an ice machine. It's only purpose is to make ice to be scooped out. 

[possibilities]

I'd say most people in the USA have refrigerators, but Jane and Michael were at the hotel, not a private home, and many hotels and motels have ice machines in the hall and lack full kitchens in the rooms. The Marbela is pretty fancy, though, and Jane and her family have an entire suite. You'd think they'd at least have a mini fridge, but they might not have a freezer. That said, I never use ice, at home or elsewhere. I like my liquids tepid to warm. But still-- it wasn't the craziest thing they've done on this show, and if they wanted to get MIchael into the hall to be shot at, I thought it was more or less credible.

I re-watched that horrible moment, and I do think the liquid that exploded on his chest looked inky more than bloody. It could have been something in his pocket that exploded, or even a not-real bullet... maybe Rose will try kidnapping him for ransom or some other leverage, not killing him outright. After all, she didn't want to kill Mateo last finale, either. And she may be motivated to hedge her bets because of Luisa.

I don't think Rose can be redeemed, nor Luisa if she stays with Rose. But then again, they made me care about Petra, so anything is possible.

[natyxg]

4 minutes ago, Nanrad said:

I love JtV, but I don't think I can continue watching if Michael is dead (or have amnesia or a personality transplant)--that's too much for me. I enjoy Michael as a stand alone character, but his interactions with Jane are the major reasons I watch the show. The two actors play well off of each other and I love the dynamic between the characters. Michael saying their vows in Spanish, the list before the wedding night, etc--there's a tons of shit that I can't even think of. It's not just that he loves Jane, but he understands her as well and they're on the same page.

This is why I like Michael and Jane. They have known each other for 5 years and they make so much sense. It's not some epic love story like shows tend to do, where everything is OTT and, when one looks more deeply, superficial. Michael gets Jane better than anyone. He's patient with her and indulges her with her lists, and over planning and all the things that make Jane Jane. And he waited and didn't pressure her when she left him. They were some bumps along the way, specially earlier in the show, but in my opinion for a long time they've shown Michael's love for Jane to be quite selfless and it was really nice to see, right down to him learning his vows in Spanish and wanting to be more than just a random babysitter for Mateo. To me they've really brought home the idea that they are a great couple who go well together and can navigate through problems by talking and not fall apart.

I will be really annoyed if they ruin that by giving him amnesia or a personality transplant that turns him into an asshole, just to keep the fucking triangle moving forward or to make way for Rafael and Jane. I would rather they just let him die, to be honest: just keep the good memory of how much he loved Jane and what a good husband he might have been.

2 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I don't think Rose can be redeemed, nor Luisa if she stays with Rose. But then again, they made me care about Petra, so anything is possible.

I don't think she can be redeemed either. She's pretty hot, but frankly I find her scarier every time she shows up. Granted, we've only had glimpses of her since she left the first time.  Maybe it WOULD be interesting to see her with Luisa, with Luisa trying to get her to promise that she won't hurt more people or whatever, and see how it goes. But so far she's basically a scary psychopath, whose only exception is Luisa...and even that is sort of debatable because she DID kill Luisa's dad and got her locked up in a mental institution, and spent a year mindfucking her by pretending to be her new girlfriend.