S02.E22: Invincible

[KirkB]

21 minutes ago, Actionmage said:

 

I also noted that it was Barry pushing Cisco to open the portal that lead to the current mess and death of Henry. I re-stated that, as many others noted, if Barry had left Zoom on Earth-2, dying, then the current mess would not have happened. That would have a) been allowing a villain to die and b) keeping Earth-1 folks safe, but that also wouldn't go where the writers want the story to go.

 

 Only this episode seems to hint that Barry was right all along. Yes, he made things worse by giving Zoom his speed. But while a lot of people said it was crazy to reopen the breach to Earth 2 because Zoom was trapped there and dying. Now it looks like Zoom wasn't trapped at all. He can apparently wave his hand and create his own breach. How did he do that, exactly?

Laurel, watch out for the...oh, never mind. Nice job Wally. You finally did something interesting.

Harry probably should have checked to see if those earphones they were relying on to protect them actually worked.

While I get Cisco being surprised when he blasted Black Siren, it shouldn't have come as a complete shock since he saw Reverb do the same thing.

I don't feel too bad for Henry. At least he gets to be with Nora again, and he doesn't need to keep giving Barry pep talks. Zoom, however, might want to rethink his strategy. Killing Barry's father to prove he is a monster too? Let's say that works. Then Zoom has to deal with the fact the dweeb who kicked his ass and who he only got away from because he was too nice, isn't holding back any more.

[Trini]

One other iffy thing:

Giving the "loved her" line to Caitlyn instead of Cisco, but besides that, no real acknowledgement of Laurel Lance's death. (But then again the two shows seem to be ignoring each other since the big crossover.)

[Actionmage]

Quote

How did he do that, exactly?

With the speed that was siphoned off of Barry. Zoom was egging on/hoping  Cisco would open the first portal wide enough for Zoom to jump on through and he was all upset when Cisco closed it. Zoom could not make a dimensional portal of his own at that point.

I was also hoping Cisco would look up the type of dead bird, to see if that was a helpful clue in his vibe vision. Sadly, he didn't. Maybe he can Vibe in color the better he gets at using his powers? *g*

Edited May 18, 2016 by Actionmage
Cisco is cool.

[twoods]

This show punches me in the gut constantly. I was so happy with Barry finally asking Iris out, and then the cute Wally/Jessie and Henry/Tina flirting. Then in one second Zoom swoops in and kills Henry in front of Barry. Grant continues to knock it out of the park- goofy grin at Iris and then the look of horror/shock at seeing Zoom take Henry to him pleading for Zoom to kill him instead. He is amazing.

That being said, I'm still so sad.

I think they mentioned Laurel being dead on earth 1 a few times- I'm still wondering when Sarah is going to find out on Legends.

[VCRTracking]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamit! I knew that ending was too good to be true. They fooled me with Henry and Tina McGee hitting it off.

I loved Katie Cassidy as Black Siren.

Cisco and Caitlin dressing up as their doppelgangers was hilarious.

[Chyromaniac]

Quote

Names are important because they help keep folks from staying confused, Writers. "Jay" was never Jay, it was Hunter Zolomon and the Flash Mob know this.

Maybe that's why Zoom is so cranky?  At this point, I just want them to show "My name is not Jay" scrawled all over one side of his lair.  However the cynic in me believes that they keep calling him that...

SPECULATION - NOT SPOILERS

because they think it'll be simpler when they reveal Teddy Sears as Jay in the iron mask.

[Trini]

52 minutes ago, quarks said:

Good things:

5. I seem to be in the minority here, but I thought the setup for Wally and Jesse was kinda cute.

Really? I'm all for this cross-universe pairing.

Quote

Questionable things:5. To repeat yet again, I'm not against WestAllen, but "Hey, let's give it a go!" is maaaaaayyyyyyybe not the sweeping romance needed to get me excited about where they're going next. I know you were surrounded by family, but at least try to pull the girl aside or throw in a dinner invite, dude!

It may have been out of place with all the other stuff going on in the episode. But it's really a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, because I just know some would be complaining about Barry moving too fast (heh) if he did make a sweeping gesture.

Quote

Bad things:

1. I was braced for the return of everyone's favorite staircase in the Arrowverse! I was not braced for it to show up in the trailer for The 100 just moments later!  Run from this, The 100! You are dealing with enough problems this season without taking on the Arrowverse's set problems!

Are you kidding me? Haaa! I thought that show was set in the jungle/forest. I don't watch.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Trini

[ruby24]

Well, I thought the "maybe we should give this a shot" was odd because...didn't they get together last week? Did I totally misread that whole "you're everything to me" speech? I know they didn't kiss, but it seemed pretty clear cut anyway. Which is why it was odd that they didn't kiss.

I figured they were just trying to save the kiss for the finale. Now I think they're going to use this death/Barry's grief to separate them over the hiatus. Which would be super lame, but if they come together for sure, kissing and everything in the premiere, then I guess I'll allow it.

No more dragging things out for another damn season though. That would be ridiculous.

[quarks]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

 

Are you kidding me? Haaa! I thought that show was set in the jungle/forest. I don't watch.

 

You're not wrong. Most of The 100 is just people running around in forests getting killed. But the trailer showed that portions of this week's upcoming episode were filmed in downtown Vancouver, right on that staircase.

I fell over laughing. And then I started wondering if I should start warning the characters on The 100 to watch out for terrible time travelers, broody archers, and scientists who can only think of one solution to every problem, week after week. "RUN BARRY RUN!"

[AudienceofOne]

4 hours ago, NoWayOut said:

When is Barry ever going to learn to attack more and talk less? I was waiting for someone to come end Black Siren's terrible monologue and my boy Wally came through. Best thing he's done on the show.

 

It was like the monologue fight. Whoever gets the last word in wins. I enjoyed this episode but why would the Flash go up against someone with a sonic power by standing in front of them talking for seventeen hundred minutes instead of zipping them off to a cell?

[thuganomics85]

Yawn!  Of course, Henry was going to die.  Even if there wasn't all the anvils from last week, all the scenes with him getting his flirt one with Tina just felt like a "Time to let John Wesley Shipp and Amanda Pays reunite before we cart him off!" scenario.  I was a little surprised that Zoom decided he would be his victim, since Joe has been the real father figure in his life, but I guess he really wanted to parallel both Barry and Zoom, plus doing it in the same out Barry's mom die, was the icing in the creepy cake.  Will miss Shipp, but hey, at least it was better send-off then the one he got on Dawson's Creek.

 After all the hype, the Black Siren was underwhelming.  Sure, Katie Cassidy seemed to be a bit more lively being evil and the get-up worked, but she was just another long line of meta who pretty much has Barry down for the count, but squanders it by blabbering mouth for as long as she can. Which leads to hilarity.  Like Wally side-swiping her with a car.  Thanks, Wally!

Caitlin is just randomly back, but still sees Zoom in her head, which understandably freaks her out.

Cisco and Caitlin pretending to be Revarb and Killer Frost was one of the highlights of the episode.

Before things go to hell, Barry and Iris finally decided to go for it, but once again, there is less passion and more "Why not?" about it.  At this rate, Wally and Jesse will probably hook-up before Barry and Iris do.

Wally finds out the truth!  Took him long enough.

At least they still found a way to get some classic Cisco and Harry bickering.

Maybe they finale will stick the landing, but I'm not as excited compared to last season.  Zoom is a powerhouse and I enjoy him, but even after killing Henry, it just lacks the fire Barry's feud with Eobard had.

[ruby24]

I understand the "no passion" argument. At the same time I kinda think they might be trying to drag this out so they don't have to really "start" it until next season. But still, if that's the case, I'm gonna need Iris to just spontaneously jump him in the middle of their first date to illustrate how going so slow has frustrated at least one of them, because they really do just need to kiss already. There's no need for formalities at this point, come on.

And with all the tragedy it looks like that's probably not happening next week either.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Isn't the Basement of Meta Humans getting really full?

Loved the Barry/Caitlin/Cisco group hug.

It was very sweet to see Team Flash dinner at the end, but my mind kept wandering and asking questions like how are they going to fit ten people at a table that only has six chairs? Did someone warn Dr. McGee that Wally was the only person in the room who didn't know Barry is the Flash so that she wouldn't accidentally say something to him? Then Cisco vibed and Zoom showed up so it didn't matter anymore.

[marketdoctor]

I thought Amanda Pays killed it with six words:

"Thank, you Barry."  And a little bit later "I'm not *stupid.*"  Her whole performance was great, but that last line might be my favorite of the show.  (It was a bit mean to Wally, though.)  I hope they give Wally a bit of backstory about how he was caught up in stuff, or he sort of suspected but then didn't believe it because of something that happened while Barry had lost his powers, or something.

That said, Wally's car work was a nice touch.  It's been done once or twice before (including, I think, the Buffyverse), but it was a way to have him save the day without developing meta-powers.

Very sad about Henry being killed.

And I liked KC's performance a lot.  I don't know if it's because she was able to have fun with it, or what, but thanks for keeping her options open.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Seriously H&M or one of those type of shows should have an Iris West line.  Her clothes are so cute.  Do they have a wear to shop guide for the show? 

I drifted off..why did they think Zoom was dead? 

There are a couple of websites that catalog who wears what on tv. The top she wore to dinner is by Free People. I guess H&M could do a knock off collection or some kind of collaboration, but the clothes they use for Iris tend to be above their price point (her camel colored coat from last week was originally $265, this dress was $250, and this dress was $398 before it sold out). They also use less expensive items from Forever 21, Urban Outfitters, etc.

No one thought Zoom was dead. They saw him create a portal and went back to Earth 2 so they knew that he was gone for the moment.

[benteen]

5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I understand the "no passion" argument. At the same time I kinda think they might be trying to drag this out so they don't have to really "start" it until next season. But still, if that's the case, I'm gonna need Iris to just spontaneously jump him in the middle of their first date to illustrate how going so slow has frustrated at least one of them, because they really do just need to kiss already. There's no need for formalities at this point, come on.

And with all the tragedy it looks like that's probably not happening next week either.

The way she responded when Barry said they should give it a shot seemed reluctant and unenthusiastic.  I agree that dragging it out the way they have has really hurt it.

[Primetimer]

Barry's brush with the Speed Force makes him sure he can defeat Zoom. But is he too sure of that?

View the full article

[cambridgeguy]

It's kind of odd that Barry was able to defeat scores of evil metas without breaking a sweat at the very beginning of the episode (get better minions, Zoom!) but held off on going to CCPD until Zoom called him out.  If you're going to be an overconfident fool then own it and go charging off after the Big Bad right away. 

The news channels must be having a lot of fun in the Arrowverse.  I wonder if Arrow's catastrophe has pushed the metapocalypse to page 2. 

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

The way she responded when Barry said they should give it a shot seemed reluctant and unenthusiastic.  I agree that dragging it out the way they have has really hurt it.

I don't agree that she seemed reluctant and unethusiastic.  I thought she seemed as awkward and shy about it as Barry was.  I think some people are reading this as "what the hell" when Barry basically needed the "invincible" juice to gather up the courage to ask Iris to go for it.  And Iris' response was totally a shy, "I would love that." and then both of them broke apart when they saw others coming.  Thus they might be thinking of keeping this secret for now.

But I DO agree that they are inexplicably dragging this out for no good reason.  I also think that if they stall this AGAIN and we didn't even get a real hard core passionate moment with them, I will be very angry.  It will just add fuel to my fire that these writers hate Iris and don't want her to have nice things.  Like they're being dragged kicking and screaming to "do Westallen", when dangit - the chemistry is there, the story is there - just WRITE it correctly!

Ugh - I'm going to go rant in the relationship thread.

[quarks]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

One other iffy thing:

Giving the "loved her" line to Caitlyn instead of Cisco, but besides that, no real acknowledgement of Laurel Lance's death. (But then again the two shows seem to be ignoring each other since the big crossover.)

I don't think the shows have been ignoring each other all that much - Barry sent Samantha to go talk to Oliver after William was kidnapped; Diggle and Lyla popped over to deal with Shark Dude; Felicity sent over that Dwarf Star whatever to Team Flash a few episodes ago, Barry belatedly popped over for Laurel's funeral again.  I thought failing to call Team Flash to let them know that nukes were about to go off everywhere was a much bigger failure, but that's on Arrow, not Flash.

With that said, I thought the bigger problem was Caitlin's "we loved her" comment in the first place - not to mention giving that to Caitlin instead of Cisco. The line felt unearned on this show. Laurel's interacted with the Flash characters all of three times. In season one/three, she had a one minute introduction to Barry Allen, but not the rest of Team Flash. She later met Cisco, who had an instant crush, and had a couple of brief scenes with him. This season, she joined Team Arrow and Team Flash on the Arrow episode of the crossover, but barely interacted with Team Flash.  We've never seen Laurel just casually hanging out with anyone on Team Flash, and although the shows frequently reference phone calls between Team Flash and Felicity and Oliver, and made it clear that Cisco stays in regular touch with Team Arrow, we've never had these references for Laurel on either show.  

It's possible that Laurel hung out with them over the summer, but - Thea didn't know until the crossover episode that Team Arrow knew the Flash, and Harry didn't even know who she was. I realize that Harry's pretty focused on his own issues and not really the social type, but that does suggest that Team Flash hasn't really mentioned Laurel all that much in his presence, and that Laurel didn't hang out with Team Flash when she went to go visit her mother in Central City.

I thought the other reactions were about right for the sort of acquaintance-level thing Team Flash seemed to have with Laurel, but that one line seemed really off.

[Cekrypton1]

Re: Barry and sound villains. A) he can run faster than sound and B) as shown, sound villains seem to only produce unidirectional sounds waves. There is no reason why Barry can't stop this threat in half a second.

[Inquiry]

I actually really enjoyed this episode. While I'm terribly sad that Henry is dead, as most have commented: the anvils were there last episode that he wasn't long for this world,so I was kind of prepared for his death. I also really enjoyed Barry's attitude. more carefree.* While I understand the others' concerns (he was just a little too carefree. As Iris said, a little fear is a good thing), it was just refreshing to see Barry not be so burdened. Also, I think it tied in with Xenith22's post in last episode's thread that, in the comics, the speedforce is intoxicating, for lack of a better word. That when you're in it, you don't really want to leave. The writer's interpretation of that seems to be that it can (or at least this time) can make someone completely at peace to a perhaps unrealistic degree. I can buy that. Of course, I don't blame Barry. Barry (and the writers) seemed to be viewing the speedforce as the universe, or at least an integral, sentient part of it ("When the first subatomic particle sprang forth from the big bang to create reality as you know it, We were there. When the last proton decays, stops vibrating and plunges the universe into heat death, We'll be there too.). I imagine he's a little hopped up on "God" juice, at the moment. Hopefully, his Dad's death will force him to remember that the speedfroce also told him he would face other challenges and that, even with his gift, he won't always be fast enough. He may be a conduit of an incredible entity, but he isn't the entity itself. Speaking of, I'd really like a clarification if Barry came out of the speedforce faster that he was before (without the tachyon device). If he's running at the same speed as before, when Zoom crushed him, the team's response would make tons of sense. If, however, he' running at the speed that the tachyon device gave him without using it, then that would seem to, at least partially, back up his claim that *something's* on the team's side.  

Also, I know it's rare to have simple platonic male/female partners on television, but Cisco/Caitlin tonight has strengthened the little voice in my head that's been getting louder as the series has developed. Specifically, that I wouldn't mind if TPTB explored them as a romance. I think the actors' have great chemistry that fits well with a lighter toned Flash (as other have noted this isn't Arrow, it isn't supposed to be all doom and gloom). That being said, I also wouldn't mind them resembling something like Xander/Willow from Buffy. Either way, I love their interactions

*I really want the Barry that we saw in Supergirl. That Barry was both downright adorkable, funny, and mature/wise. Given, that Supergirl is coming to the CW next year, maybe TPTB will allow us another crossover. 

**Rewatching the episode and something that completely escaped me last time and make me laugh my ass off was Cisco's deadman "Ah, *bleep* you guys" when seeing the dead birds in his last vibe. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Inquiry

[Cekrypton1]

I actually really enjoyed this episode. While I'm terribly sad that Henry is dead, as most have commented: the anvils were there last episode that he wasn't long for this world,so I was kind of prepared for his death. I also really enjoyed Barry's attitude. more carefree. While I understand the others' concerns (he was just a little too carefree. As Iris said, a little fear is a good thing), it was just refreshing to see Barry not be so burdened. Also, I think it tied in with Xenith22's post in last episode's thread that, in the comics, the speedforce is intoxicating, for lack of a better word. That when you're in it, you don't really want to leave. The writer's interpretation of that seems to be that it can (or at least this time) can make someone completely at peace to a perhaps unrealistic degree. I can buy that. Of course, I don't blame Barry. Barry (and the writers) seemed to be viewing the speedforce as the universe, or at least an integral, sentient part of it ("When the first subatomic particle sprang forth from the big bang to create reality as you know it, We were there. When the last proton decays, stops vibrating and plunges the universe into heat death, We'll be there too.). I imagine he's a little hopped up on "God" juice, at the moment. Hopefully, his Dad's death will force him to remember that the speedfroce also told him he would face other challenges and that, even with his gift, he won't always be fast enough. He may be a conduit of an incredible entity, but he isn't the entity itself. Speaking of, I'd really like a clarification if Barry came out of the apeedforce faster that he was before (without the tachyon device). If he's running at the same speed as before, when Zoom crushed him, the team's response would make tons of sense. If, however, he' running at the speed that the tachyon device gave him without using it, then that would seem to, at least partially, back up his claim that *something's* on the team's side.  

Also, I know it's rare to have simple platonic male/female partners on television, but Cisco/Caitlin tonight has strengthened the little voice in my head that's been getting louder as the series has developed/ Specifically, that I wouldn't mind if TPTB explored as a romance. I think the actors' have great chemistry that fits well with a lighter toned Flash (as other have noted this isn't Arrow, it isn't suppose to be all doom and gloom). That being said, I also wouldn't mind them resembling something like Xander/Willow from Buffy. Either way, I love their interactions.

One point on this: Barry came out of the Speed Force having made peace with his mother's death, and so some of that overconfidence was likely misinterpreted contentment,

[TVHappy9463]

Knew it was coming, but still very sad about Henry.  Loved the reaction shots during the dinner when Zoom grabbed Henry, and Wally's reaction when he realized Barry was the flash. I think he is going to be a pissed at his Dad and Iris for keeping secrets.  Why wasn't Well's at dinner? 

Why can't we have one super hero ( or Disney Princess for that matter) without dead parents?

And has it ever been explained why, we have not yet encountered Earth2, Oliver, Felicity or Diggle? Meta human or otherwise? 

I got the whole Angel/Cordy meeting on the beach vibe when Barry and Iris said lets give this a shot.  Those crazy kids are not going to get together.  I don't think Barry's going to end up in a box at the bottom of the ocean, but it's not time yet.  

[Actionmage]

Quote

And has it ever been explained why, we have not yet encountered Earth2, Oliver,

Earlier this season, Harry had the news on and Robert had done something ( unmask himself?) as The Hood/ The Arrow in memory of Dead!Oliver. So on E-2 Oliver didn't survive the Queen's Gambit, Robert did.

[johntfs]

I think "Let's give this a shot" felt real and appropriate for where they were.  While Barry has been carrying a torch for Iris, the idea of Barry as a boyfriend/lover is still a little new to Iris (he was still her brother for years) but she's at a place she can go with it.  Grand, elaborate declarations of eternal love feel out of place, a more tentative but enthusiastic "Let's give this a shot" make more sense to me at this point.

 

Meanwhile Henry's death felt like an SNL skit with all the hints being dropped.  I think they cut his speech from last week which probably went.  "Son, I love you and just want to say - Wow, that's a lot of buzzards circling overhead.  Must be something dead or dying around here.  Anyway, I just want to tell you that, Good Lord, who left all these buckets here.  You can't move without kicking one.  As I was saying, after prison I joined the police force, so here on my very last day before retirement, I'm proud of you Barry and am looking forward to spending the rest of my life with you.  I'd say more but that tall guy with the scythe is standing a little too close to us and it's making this weird."

Edited May 18, 2016 by johntfs

[Primal Slayer]

Overall it was an enjoyable episode, I loved Black Siren for the most part, wished she had more to do throughout the episode though. Her already knowing of Black Canary's death was weird though and could've been written better. I did end up laughing since MG and co. keep going on about how big of an impact Laurels death will have on all 3 shows when it had no effect whatsoever on The Flash. The characters didn't grieve in any way, they weren't even weirded out over seeing her doppleganger like the cast said they would be. Any of the cast couldve had the same impact. But I am glad that Black Siren ended up surviving even if they just locked her away as an afterthought (some things never change). Hopefully she comes back, gets some proper development and a good storyline somewhere.

I was disappointed in the beginning of the episode, to start off with this "big" Metapocalypse only to have it be over in a blink of an eye. Barry is fast, doesn't mean he can beat over 100 super powered beings THAT FAST. That was underwhelming.

Cisco/Caitlin being able to dress up EXACTLY like their doppelgangers made me give a side eye.

Black Siren/Zoom had some good chemistry going.

The ending, while predictable as hell was very good, I liked how Wally found out the truth.

[zannej]

14 hours ago, catrice2 said:

What age range is Wells or whatever his name is?  Maybe Tina is for him?   

Seriously H&M or one of those type of shows should have an Iris West line.  Her clothes are so cute.  Do they have a wear to shop guide for the show? 

Amanda Pays is 56 and Tom Cavanagh is 52, but I'm not sure on the character ages. The Eobard Wells had good chemistry with Dr. McGee, but I'm not sure how Tina would feel about Harry given that he stole something from her lab. Kind of a bad first impression.

There is a tumblr site called TheFlashFashion.tumblr.com that tries to find out what people were wearing and lists it.

4 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Meanwhile Henry's death felt like an SNL skit with all the hints being dropped.  I think they cut his speech from last week which probably went.  "Son, I love you and just want to say - Wow, that's a lot of buzzards circling overhead.  Must be something dead or dying around here.  Anyway, I just want to tell you that, Good Lord, who left all these buckets here.  You can't move without kicking one.  As I was saying, after prison I joined the police force, so here on my very last day before retirement, I'm proud of you Barry and am looking forward to spending the rest of my life with you.  I'd say more but that tall guy with the scythe is standing a little too close to us and it's making this weird."

ROTFLMAO!!! Now I won't be able to watch those scenes without picturing circling buzzards and the mental image of Henry kicking over buckets. Also, I think they should have had him wearing a red shirt.

Speaking of circling, anyone remember back in season 1 before Eobard killed Cisco he circled around him? I couldn't help but think "shark attack!"

14 hours ago, Actionmage said:

Also, Cisco? When has there been a monorail in your Central City? The raised line that was clearly seen in the trips to Earth-2. That is what you saw. Not your Earth, but since you heard/ realized that Zoom wasn't captured, that  should have been a possibility to your line of thought.

I liked that Cisco is the one consistently looking out for Caitlin. I also like that Cisco got a taste of his offensive capabilities. As long as he is mindful of how enthusiastic he is over learning his limits, I think Cisco will be fine. Poor Snow, though, with all the "visions" of Zoom. I kept waiting for one to actually be Zoom and he would kill her at that point. ( Not that I want Caitlin dead; it seemed a possibility seeing as Zoom is an insane mass murderer. Plus the promise he made.) I guess all Harrisons will find something to like about Dr. Snow. Even if their daughters turn to her instead of him for meta confirmation.

Cisco *did* see the monorail. He said "Earth 2" when he was vibing. He told them he saw Earth 2 being split in half and was horrified because he thought he was seeing the end of that world. It may not be *his* world, but that is a hell of a lot of people that would die there.

14 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Caitlin and Cisco trying to fake being Reverb and Killer Frost was great and, honestly, I kind of wish they kept the outfits and hair.  Still be good guys, but look fabulous doing it.

Still don't like Wally, but him taking out Black Siren with a care was great.  Also, Black Siren showed why Laurel looked so much better with blonde hair.

I wonder where the hell they got the outfits. Did they have Barry zip over to Earth2 to raid the closets of Cisco and Caitlin there to find they had spare costumes, makeup, and wig? Because, seriously, how the hell else did they get that stuff. I don't think Caitlin had that wig and makeup around and it wasn't the best time to be going to the store.

I actually liked Laurel better with the dark hair. The blonde hair always looked so fake to me.

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh look, to nobody's surprise, Henry's dead. What a lame cop-out. I knew Henry wouldn't survive past season 2. It's stupid.

Funny that Black Siren only got 15 minutes total of the episode. Also rolled my eyes at the dead birds vibes. Also, I snorted at Caitlin's "We loved her." First off, nice lie to The Flash audience who have never seen Arrow. Secondly, nice funny joke for the ones who do watch Arrow. I don't even think they would have spoken off-screen. Ever. 

Wally knows. That's good. And he ran over Laurel....well, Earth-2 Laurel. Our hero.

Look, Barry needs multiple pep talks....but to SLOW DOWN. Hilarious.

I actually liked the Caitlin scenes. It was good to see her have some PTSD after being captured by Zoom. 

Yeah. I was sad they killed Henry but saw it coming.

I thought the dead birds weren't necessarily about Laurel but that they were visions of what was going to happen on Earth 2. First something messing up the electromagnetic fields and causing the birds to go haywire and crash into buildings and then the major destruction.

Caitlin saying "we loved her" made zero sense. I don't think Laurel and Caitlin ever even met. It just didn't work for me.

Laurel getting hit by Wally's car was pretty funny. Reminded me a bit of a Stargate: SG1 episode where a bounty hunter was about to kill Daniel Jackson and then got hit by a bus.

The whole PTSD thing with Caitlin would have been better if I liked Danielle's acting style. As it was, a good portion of it just made me cringe. I just didn't buy the emotions-- it was all wide-eyed stage-acting that one would expect to see on a kid's program instead of something serious. Also, why is it that Caitlin has this major PTSD after only a few days with Zoom, but Jesse was held by Zoom for *months* and actually tortured but was acting like nothing happened. Granted, different people react trauma in different ways and maybe Jesse just learned to cope better-- but for all we know, she wakes up screaming at night and Harry has to calm her down.

13 hours ago, Actionmage said:

Dr. Light hasn't returned to cause trouble, nor has Peek-A-Boo.  Hartley has become friendly to the group. So killing everyone isn't needed.  Yes, some folks probably should be killed and Zoom is a prime example. I don't think the No Kill "rule" ( more a guideline, imo) is stupid; it separates folks who just like to kill from heroic persons and (should be) deputized arms of the police department. 

I don't see a direct correlation between Wally's kidnapping and Henry's death. Should Barry have given up the Speed Force? Emphatically, no. Zolomon was dying, as Caitlin's tests showed. It was Barry's pushing Cisco to use the vibe powers that allowed Zoom to pull off the blackmail, not Barry "letting" Zoom live. It was Barry's inability to take a minute and regroup.

Peek-A-Boo seemingly returned in the chronicles of Cisco but it wasn't clear if that was a dream or if she actually turned up.

The "no kill" rule is valid to a point-- like with law enforcement. Of course, we do have problems with law enforcement getting cocky and thinking they are above the law and that it is ok to use lethal force when they shouldn't. There are times when it makes sense for Barry and/or the team to use lethal force.

I totally agree that it was Barry's fault that he got blackmailed. If he'd had some patience, Zoom would probably be dead now and Earth 1 would be safe.

13 hours ago, Lovecat said:

At least John Wesley Shipp wasn't taken out by a rogue ice cream cone this time.

I'm guessing this is a reference to another show or movie. Please explain.

13 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

I was afraid they were going to kill Henry.  I don't know why shows today think its "edgy" to kill off loved ones of our heroes.  On some shows, it works, but on shows like "The Flash", it just seems so unnecessary.  Maybe the man in the iron mask is the Earth 2 version of Henry, so Barry will "kind of" get his Dad back.

I remember when it became "edgy" to kill off characters in the comic books. I only lasted a few more years of that before they just kept killing characters left and right (and bringing some back). It just got old and tiresome and no longer had the same impact. After Chuck Dixon left DC and they retaliated by destroying the entire city he had created (Bludhaven) and killing or otherwise destroying the characters he wrote, I had enough of the comic books. They killed off so many character-- some of which came back.

I don't know why the writers think it is cool to kill a character off. It is not shocking or surprising anymore. It is just par for the course.

12 hours ago, Trini said:

So, I'm going to focus on the good things for right now:
Tina McGee knows!
Wally knows! Finally!

I fully expect Singh to get looped in next season. He's definitely on top the Needs to Know list.

90s Flash reunion! Possible Henry/Tina pairing - *squeeee*!

Black Siren run over mid-monologue -- heeeeee!

Cisco and Caitlyn playing dress-up! Because villain outfits can just be had off-the-rack. And I was glad for the Hartley mention because if they're friends now, his genius brain should really be helping out.

I sort of expect that Singh knows or at least suspects that Barry is the Flash but is not seeking official confirmation because it can save him from some legal/ethical problems.

So sad the Tina/Henry pairing was cut so short.

They did mention Hartley helped, but I'm guessing he was probably out-of-town or off protecting his own family or something.

12 hours ago, quarks said:

Questionable things:

1. Awww, Henry and Tina, after twenty-odd years and a cancelled show are getting together at last and - wow, Flash, that was kinda mean. I get that the 1990s show wasn't all that great, but still.

2. How, exactly, did Black Siren know that Earth 1 and Earth 2 people mirror each other's left/right handedness? So far only two people from Earth 1 have crossed over to Earth 2, right, and until this episode, only three people had crossed over into Earth 1. I suppose the Earth-2 metahumans could have tracked down their doubles and asked them if they were right or left handed, and then clued each other in - Black Siren went to the effort of finding out that Earth-1 Laurel Lance was dead, after all - but this still seems like a bit of a stretch.

4. How has Wally not figured out Barry's identity - or were those looks at dinner meant to suggest that he had? And on a related note, how has Singh not figured out Barry's identity? "Oh, yes, I, Barry Allen, forensic dude, just happen to show up, totally out of breath, one second after you asked where I was and the Flash vanished!"

5. To repeat yet again, I'm not against WestAllen, but "Hey, let's give it a go!" is maaaaaayyyyyyybe not the sweeping romance needed to get me excited about where they're going next. I know you were surrounded by family, but at least try to pull the girl aside or throw in a dinner invite, dude!

6. Where, exactly, did Cisco, and more importantly, Caitlin, get the wigs/makeup/costumes that quickly to pull that stunt off?

7. Uh, Joe, I know you don't like vigilantes, especially if they are named Oliver Queen, but Wally wasn't just going around randomly vigilanting people. He saw someone get mugged and rushed out to help. This is a GOOD thing. It proves Wally is a good person. 

Bad things:

1. I was braced for the return of everyone's favorite staircase in the Arrowverse! I was not braced for it to show up in the trailer for The 100 just moments later!  Run from this, The 100! You are dealing with enough problems this season without taking on the Arrowverse's set problems!

Seriously, Vancouver must have other public staircases, right? Or - and I apologize in advance for making what might be too radical a suggestion here - maybe just ban all action scenes on staircases for a full year on all CW shows.

2. Others have already pointed this out elsewhere, but if you are going to try to take a different tone than Arrow - and that was the initial theory - that also means not repeating specific plot points. And although Supergirl  and Legends of Tomorrow at least avoided some of these repeated beats, let's try for no dead parents killed right in front of the main characters in their second seasons next year, k?

3. I'd probably be taking Zoom more seriously if his minions weren't running around stealing purses. 

Since we haven't actually ever seen any hint that Earth1 and Earth2 counterparts are mirrored, I call BULLSHIT on that one. I'm going to assume that she was actually just bluffing. I think it wasn't true and she was just testing to see if she could get Cisco to show his hand. If he'd really been Reverb, he would have told her she was full of it.

I couldn't help but think that Singh was sort of hinting that he knew Barry was the Flash but pretending to not know by specifically mentioning "Where's Allen?" to mess with him a little.

Have to agree on the costumes/makeup thing. LOL.

The re-use of sets doesn't bother me for some reason.

LOL! Evil metahumand snatching purses and ruining everyone's phone conversations. Can you imagine how many dropped calls there were? Like, nobody would have had signal with all of them running around.

12 hours ago, Trini said:

Things that are iffy:

Wait -- Zoom can just open portals by himself now? Way to introduce that in the next to last episode, Show.

Barry not really doing anything to stop Black Siren at their first meeting. Also, didn't Barry invent noise cancelling earbuds over on Supergirl?

Cisco and Caitlyn spending more time on their Earth-2 outfits than Plan C. Not to mention falling for the old 'Catch this' trick.

Um, are the CCPD/Team Flash seriously planning on keeping all those Earth-2 metas over here on Earth-1??

Yeah. Zoom opening the portal was a headscratcher. To quote Caitlin "What the what?!" (I admit, her reaction to seeing Cisco use his powers for the first time was actually pretty funny).

They haven't mentioned ANYTHING about the Supergirl episode on The Flash for some reason. No idea why.

LOL. Yeah, as I said before, either Barry had to run to get their costumes from Earth2 or he had to make a run to some stores for Cisco-- maybe Cisco has taught Barry how to sew.

Yeah. But I'm not sure how easy it would be to ship them all back to Earth 2. It's sort of like the Marianas Boat people situation where Castro found out the US was letting in masses of immigrants and just let loose the loonies and most violent criminals to send over first and the US had to keep them in Federal prisons for years (and they rioted, took hostages, and burned down buildings in the late 80s-- I actually got front row seats to that mess).

12 hours ago, KirkB said:

 Only this episode seems to hint that Barry was right all along. Yes, he made things worse by giving Zoom his speed. But while a lot of people said it was crazy to reopen the breach to Earth 2 because Zoom was trapped there and dying. Now it looks like Zoom wasn't trapped at all. He can apparently wave his hand and create his own breach. How did he do that, exactly?

Laurel, watch out for the...oh, never mind. Nice job Wally. You finally did something interesting.

Harry probably should have checked to see if those earphones they were relying on to protect them actually worked.

Although, maybe because Zoom was dying he couldn't do anything with the portals until he got Barry's speed to heal himself. Maybe the portal-opening thing is something Barry will be able to learn how to do. But it would be nice if they explained how the hell Zoom did it. I'm guessing maybe some technology?

I thought the same thing about the headphones. Like, why didn't they test them first to make sure they wouldn't fail? And for that matter, why did they assume that just because the contraption Cisco made caused Harry pain that it would just knock out all the Earth2 people instead of just rupturing their eardrums or killing them? Also, if the were messing with vibrations that should affect Earth 2 people-- wouldn't it affect their whole bodies (like when Hartley tuned to Barry's frequency and blasted him and was sheering his organs apart)? Why just the ears?

I did love the banter with Cisco and Harry. Cisco being a bit sadistic and using the pulses on Harry even after they were done and then the whole "Let me have this one" and Harry being all "Fine, have it! Have it!"

11 hours ago, twoods said:

This show punches me in the gut constantly. I was so happy with Barry finally asking Iris out, and then the cute Wally/Jessie and Henry/Tina flirting. Then in one second Zoom swoops in and kills Henry in front of Barry. Grant continues to knock it out of the park- goofy grin at Iris and then the look of horror/shock at seeing Zoom take Henry to him pleading for Zoom to kill him instead. He is amazing.

That being said, I'm still so sad.

I think they mentioned Laurel being dead on earth 1 a few times- I'm still wondering when Sarah is going to find out on Legends.

The asking out scene was a bit awkward, but I think it was meant to be awkward. If Wally hadn't walked over, I half-expected Barry to invite Iris up to his room for a quickie. I think if he could get a do-over day (or as Eobard called it: "temporal reversion"-- btw, when he said that to Barry, he moved his foot in his chair ever so slightly but Barry didn't see it) he would get a portable weapon that could be aimed at Earth 2 denizens, kick Zoom in the balls, knock him out with the device, lock him in the pipeline and THEN wave his d*** in his face, then go to dinner and lay a big kiss on Iris.

From the promos for the next LoT episode, it looks like Sarah knows.

2 hours ago, quarks said:

With that said, I thought the bigger problem was Caitlin's "we loved her" comment in the first place - not to mention giving that to Caitlin instead of Cisco. The line felt unearned on this show. Laurel's interacted with the Flash characters all of three times. In season one/three, she had a one minute introduction to Barry Allen, but not the rest of Team Flash. She later met Cisco, who had an instant crush, and had a couple of brief scenes with him. This season, she joined Team Arrow and Team Flash on the Arrow episode of the crossover, but barely interacted with Team Flash.  We've never seen Laurel just casually hanging out with anyone on Team Flash, and although the shows frequently reference phone calls between Team Flash and Felicity and Oliver, and made it clear that Cisco stays in regular touch with Team Arrow, we've never had these references for Laurel on either show.  

It's possible that Laurel hung out with them over the summer, but - Thea didn't know until the crossover episode that Team Arrow knew the Flash, and Harry didn't even know who she was. I realize that Harry's pretty focused on his own issues and not really the social type, but that does suggest that Team Flash hasn't really mentioned Laurel all that much in his presence, and that Laurel didn't hang out with Team Flash when she went to go visit her mother in Central City.

I thought the other reactions were about right for the sort of acquaintance-level thing Team Flash seemed to have with Laurel, but that one line seemed really off.

Yeah, the "we loved her" line would have made a lot more sense coming from Cisco.

I wonder if Harry had regained consciousness when everyone decided to go to dinner. I'm guessing he had and that he had a massive headache and just wanted to sleep it off or something in a safe location-- because I can't see Jesse leaving him if he hadn't regained consciousness.

That was sweet when he took off his headset to put it on her head. I know it was painful and she didn't want to see him in pain, but she knew it was supposed to just knock him out, so I thought it was slightly odd that she freaked out so much. But then, she knew how much it hurt her so it might have been sympathy/empathy.

There was a lot of time spent letting people monologue in this one-- as per protocol.

I did really get a kick out of Tina calling Flash "Mr. Allen" and I really found Harry's entrance to be amusing when she was saying she saw Harrison Wells. I loved how he was casually holding a STAR Labs mug and was not at all sorry that he stole that BFG. I wish we'd been able to see them interact more.

If Barry doesn't get a whole day for a do-over, it would be nice to see him get to go back just when Zoom is about to kill Henry and just shank him (Zoom) right in the back. Then Henry and Tina can go on a date. Speaking of Henry's death, I know that Zoom was holding Henry, but I wish Barry had at least tried to rush at him to fight him. Poor Henry. First he saw his wife dead and spent 15 years in prison and then he dies. Comic books and comic book shows are not kind to parents.

[johntfs]

When Katie Cassidy is good, she's a bit needy and mediocre but when she's bad, she's much, much better.

 

Also, I really like the slo-mo rescue of Tina McGee with Barry running on debris as it was falling through the air.

 

As for Barry taking the metas fighting the cops, figure most of them where minor, one or two trick types that Barry could swat as easily as he'd take down crooks with guns.  These were just crooks with "built-in" guns.  As for speed stuff, this show is called The Flash.  You can assume that Barry isn't going to take down villains by bench-pressing heavy stuff.

[zannej]

I just thought of something: Zoom said that Barry got to be whisked away and didn't get to watch his mother die-- but Barry did get to see his mother die and hold her while she died. Granted that was as an adult, but he still saw it. I half-wanted Barry to tell Zoom that. I wanted to see him say "I held her while she died, you cockstain!" But I don't think cockstain is a word they can use on that show. Maybe douchewaffle... But that seems more like something Cisco would say.

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Actionmage said:

Earlier this season, Harry had the news on and Robert had done something ( unmask himself?) as The Hood/ The Arrow in memory of Dead!Oliver. So on E-2 Oliver didn't survive the Queen's Gambit, Robert did.

I would love to see the Robert Queen Green Arrow.  I'd like to see Oliver interact with him (as well as the Earth-2 Tommy) but if they ever do Flashpoint on this show, Robert Queen could fill in the Batman role for The Flash.

I think there was less of an issue here for the gang to lock up the Earth-2 metas.

[Actionmage]

Quote

I think there was less of an issue here for the gang to lock up the Earth-2 metas.

I think that is because Captain Singh mentioned that the meta-holding jail cells were full/ nearly full. Which is why he asked Joe "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" West if he (Capt. Singh) wanted to know where they ( the E-2 metas) were being held.

This is partly why I think Singh has an idea, like classic Jim Gordon and Perry White.  There may very well be ethical lines the good Captain has danced around. Where is that lady DA? Complaining that The Flash is giving her migranes instead of making her work easier would be an interesting beat. Like Harry, a person not totally enamored of Barry's help, but someone trying to get Barry to think, not run.

Until The Flash's status as a deputized member of the police happens, The Flash is making citizens arrests. Yet he's bringing in metas that normal police can't really handle. With Joe and Singh and the other patrol cops to back the move, why the idea hasn't been floated seems like an overlooked, fun, character beat. Also, something else to further joke about between Barry and Oliver. "So you're a cop by day and... a cop by night? Isn't that considered overtime, Barry?" *g* Or " Another celebration for you?"

Amanda Pays voice is just so cool. I hope she and Harry get to work on a friendship next season.

[johntfs]

The costume thing was a little unlikely but I fanwank with:

A few weeks earlier

Cisco: Hey, Cait, Comic Con's coming to town.  Wanna go as our evil alter egos?  I've totally made costumes.

Caitlin: I guess it beats staying in my Apartment of Lonely Sadness. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by johntfs

[tennisgurl]

No! Just when I was starting to like new, Zen Barry. I feel like the death of Henry really ends the Happy Fun Flash show that we have had in the past. That being said, I thought the death scene was really well done, and the actors did a great job with it. But man. Poor Henry. And poor Barry, He was just about to get a cool new step mom too! Zoom is such a piece of shit, he needs to die. Soon

Katie is a lot more fun being evil than she ever was as Laurel. And yes, many eyes were rolled when Caitlyn said they all "loved Laurel". Respected and liked her, as a fellow crime fighter? Sure, I buy that. But Caitlyn never even met her, and Cisco had like one episode where they hung out. Come on, show. 

Cisco gets to use his more badass vibe powers! I am down with this. I keep wondering, are we ever going to run into meta humans are are just normal people, and have no desire to run around wrecking havok? Like, they do not fight crime, they just live their lives? There has to be someone. 

I like seeing Harry lighten up a bit more lately. Too bad that is probably going to go down hill soon, with the new Zoom drama. Have I mentioned how much he sucks? 

[KirkB]

There really isn't anything special about Reverb's clothes except for the glasses. Which Cisco already has. Barry could probably just dash through the local leather shop and ask for the super villain special. If anything it's more the attitude he needs to convey. Killer Frost's clothes aren't too dissimilar. I suppose she could whip up a white hair dye fairly easily. It just needed to fool Black Siren long enough for their plan to finish. Everything would have worked too if Zoom didn't suddenly gain the ability to wish breaches into existence. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by KirkB

[AudienceofOne]

I just watched a kid's movie called Invisible Sister where the main characters have an hour to whip up an antidote to an invisibility serum. They say they "don't have time to get to a lab" and so they build their own still! Because apparently that was quicker. And that was more believable than Caitlin being able to dye her hair white and whip up an outfit in the time available.

[zannej]

3 hours ago, Actionmage said:

I think that is because Captain Singh mentioned that the meta-holding jail cells were full/ nearly full. Which is why he asked Joe "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" West if he (Capt. Singh) wanted to know where they ( the E-2 metas) were being held.

This is partly why I think Singh has an idea, like classic Jim Gordon and Perry White.  There may very well be ethical lines the good Captain has danced around. Where is that lady DA? Complaining that The Flash is giving her migranes instead of making her work easier would be an interesting beat. Like Harry, a person not totally enamored of Barry's help, but someone trying to get Barry to think, not run.

Until The Flash's status as a deputized member of the police happens, The Flash is making citizens arrests. Yet he's bringing in metas that normal police can't really handle. With Joe and Singh and the other patrol cops to back the move, why the idea hasn't been floated seems like an overlooked, fun, character beat. Also, something else to further joke about between Barry and Oliver. "So you're a cop by day and... a cop by night? Isn't that considered overtime, Barry?" *g* Or " Another celebration for you?"

Amanda Pays voice is just so cool. I hope she and Harry get to work on a friendship next season.

LOL. Yeah. I'm pretty sure Singh is pulling the Jim Gordon bit and pretending to not know. It reminds me slightly of the old Flash series where a former vigilante meets up with Barry and tells him not to take his mask off because he doesn't want to know, but later on he admits that he knew all along.

I sort of wonder if the Flash got deputized somewhat when they had the whole Flash day ceremony and gave him the key to the city. I bet they would take that key away and want to lock him up for reckless endangerment if they found out that he was the one who was opened the world up to the singularity and the metas-- both times.

I really like Amanda Pays and I would love to see Dr. McGee come around more often.

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

There really isn't anything special about Reverb's clothes except for the glasses. Which Cisco already has. Barry could probably just dash through the local leather shop and ask for the super villain special. If anything it's more the attitude he needs to convey. Killer Frost's clothes aren't too dissimilar. I suppose she could whip up a white hair dye fairly easily. It just needed to fool Black Siren long enough for their plan to finish. Everything would have worked too if Zoom didn't suddenly gain the ability to wish breaches into existence. 

I guess I'd have to look at the costumes again.

Dying hair is not so easy or quick though. I've never dyed my hair, but I helped my brother dye his before. It takes a lot of time and is very messy. So, I'm going to have to guess that maybe Barry popped in to a novelty shop and grabbed her a wig or something.

The whole "everything would have worked" bit made me think "And we would have gotten away with it too!" from Scooby Doo. Which reminded me of a scene from Stargate: SG1 where they had the villain monologing about what his plan had been and how they foiled it-- leading Michael Shanks  to adlib in "And you would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for us meddling kids" because he was eyerolling so hard at the writing. He later wrote that he was shocked they kept that line in. Speaking of Shanks, I heard he played Hawkman on Smallville, but I never watched Smallville so I wouldn't know.

I like Cisco's blasting powers and think it would be cool if he could learn to use them to kill/defeat Time Wraiths.

I'd love to see them go back in time for some reason and run into the Eobard version of Wells followed closely by the wraith and have him freak out as it comes at him, only to have Cisco nail the wraith with his powers. But I doubt that would ever happen.

[AudienceofOne]

6 minutes ago, zannej said:

The whole "everything would have worked" bit made me think "And we would have gotten away with it too!" from Scooby Doo. Which reminded me of a scene from Stargate: SG1 where they had the villain monologing about what his plan had been and how they foiled it-- leading Michael Shanks  to adlib in "And you would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for us meddling kids" because he was eyerolling so hard at the writing. He later wrote that he was shocked they kept that line in. Speaking of Shanks, I heard he played Hawkman on Smallville, but I never watched Smallville so I wouldn't know.

Was that a Shanks ad lib? I totally love that line! SG1 got away with a lot of silly by having lines like that to undercut it. It's amazing it wasn't scripted. No wonder I love Shanks so much. Now that you mention it, I haven't seen him die in a TV show for a while.

[phoenics]

So - repeating myself - but did no one else notice Zoom shaking his head like he was trying to shake off some kind of control while he was holding Henry?  One second he was evil and then the next he was shaking his head like he was trying to break free of something.

Just me then?

[Snorfbat]

Is it possible that Zoom pulled the same time-travel trick again and that Zoom killed a time remnant Henry but not the real Henry?

"Ha ha, Flash! Fooled you twice!"

[zannej]

1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

Was that a Shanks ad lib? I totally love that line! SG1 got away with a lot of silly by having lines like that to undercut it. It's amazing it wasn't scripted. No wonder I love Shanks so much. Now that you mention it, I haven't seen him die in a TV show for a while.

Yeah. I know RDA did a lot of ad-libbing on the show. I don't know if Shanks did it very often, but for awhile he was doing a blog about the episodes and he commented on that one in particular and said he adlibbed. He said he was just "being an ass" and was sure it would just be cut, but the director must have liked it so it stayed. Sort of like when he said "Asgards" as "Assgards".

I never got to go to the conventions, but from the footage I've seen, Shanks was hilarious-- especially when his wife was with him.

16 minutes ago, phoenics said:

So - repeating myself - but did no one else notice Zoom shaking his head like he was trying to shake off some kind of control while he was holding Henry?  One second he was evil and then the next he was shaking his head like he was trying to break free of something.

Just me then?

I just watched that scene again, an I'm not sure what was going on. I thought he was reacting to Henry talking. Like it was bugging him to hear Henry saying those things. I wonder if there was something deleted on that front. Maybe he was thinking of his own father and he makes that face when he gets a flashback. I don't think it was possession or anything.

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, zannej said:

The whole "everything would have worked" bit made me think "And we would have gotten away with it too!" from Scooby Doo. Which reminded me of a scene from Stargate: SG1 where they had the villain monologing about what his plan had been and how they foiled it-- leading Michael Shanks  to adlib in "And you would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for us meddling kids" because he was eyerolling so hard at the writing. He later wrote that he was shocked they kept that line in. Speaking of Shanks, I heard he played Hawkman on Smallville, but I never watched Smallville so I wouldn't know.

Good catch. I would have said it would have worked if it wasn't for that meddling Zoom but I wasn't sure anyone would get the reference. BTW, MS did play Hawkman in Smallville and damn would he have been an improvement over the guy we have.

[phoenics]

57 minutes ago, zannej said:

I just watched that scene again, an I'm not sure what was going on. I thought he was reacting to Henry talking. Like it was bugging him to hear Henry saying those things. I wonder if there was something deleted on that front. Maybe he was thinking of his own father and he makes that face when he gets a flashback. I don't think it was possession or anything.

You know - I think you're right - they might have edited out a scene where Zoom flashed back to his mother being killed in front of him.  It's just that the whole "lock of the darkness" thing seems really unexplained - unless he's got a kind of split personality thing going on.  But it just looks more like Zoom just wants to prove that he's justified in his evil because of what happened to him as a kid and having Barry running around NOT being evil after going through the same thing messes with that for him.

It's pathetic really - but the motivation makes a lot of sense.  I was just hoping for some explanation of the whole "darkness" thing and the way he was screaming he wasn't a monster when they were locking him up.  Or maybe the monster thing was him not wanting to be called that since that's what his mother called his father - who was evil because he killed his mother.  If he (Zoom) is a monster too, then he's just as bad or worse than his father.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, zannej said:

They did mention Hartley helped, but I'm guessing he was probably out-of-town or off protecting his own family or something.

 My own explanation is that Hartley isn't here for this volunteer sidekick business, and is off making money with his genius. He helps out when he can, of course.

 

6 hours ago, Actionmage said:

Until The Flash's status as a deputized member of the police happens, The Flash is making citizens arrests. Yet he's bringing in metas that normal police can't really handle. With Joe and Singh and the other patrol cops to back the move, why the idea hasn't been floated seems like an overlooked, fun, character beat. Also, something else to further joke about between Barry and Oliver. "So you're a cop by day and... a cop by night? Isn't that considered overtime, Barry?" *g* Or " Another celebration for you?"

I really think they should have developed this Metahuman Task Force idea more this season -- maybe a an ongoing C-plot for Joe. Having the Flash as an official police 'officer' could have been part of that.

[Primal Slayer]

21 hours ago, quarks said:

2. How, exactly, did Black Siren know that Earth 1 and Earth 2 people mirror each other's left/right handedness? So far only two people from Earth 1 have crossed over to Earth 2, right, and until this episode, only three people had crossed over into Earth 1. I suppose the Earth-2 metahumans could have tracked down their doubles and asked them if they were right or left handed, and then clued each other in - Black Siren went to the effort of finding out that Earth-1 Laurel Lance was dead, after all - but this still seems like a bit of a stretch.

They've been kind of inconsistent with E2, or at least they havent taken the time to properly explain some things. When we first ventured to E2, Killer Frost mentioned how she loved killing off doppelgangers from other Earths yet we are suppose to believe that this is the first time E2 even encountered another Earth and vice versa. 

[pookat]

Still laughing about how not one, but TWO, of Black Siren's villain monologues were cut short because of those meddling kids.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Dying hair is not so easy or quick though. I've never dyed my hair, but I helped my brother dye his before. It takes a lot of time and is very messy. So, I'm going to have to guess that maybe Barry popped in to a novelty shop and grabbed her a wig or something.

Caitlin was definitely wearing a wig. First of all, you can't just dye your hair white with a white coloring agent the way you would with, say, green temporary dye for a sporting event. You first have to bleach it to a light yellow color and then use a violet based toner to achieve a white color. This is pretty permanent. The toner washes out gradually each time you shampoo, but the hair will remain the light yellow color it was after bleaching. This is obviously not what Caitlin did because her hair was back to its normal brown color at dinner, which means she just used a wig to confront Black Siren. Most decent sized cities have beauty supply stores that specialize in wigs and extensions where you can buy different colored wigs ranging from natural colors to crazy colors. I have bought a wide range of wigs for various last minute costumes at shops like that. Most big cities also have year round costume shops where you can buy or rent all kinds of stuff. The hair that Caitlin was sporting as Killer Frost could be bought as a cheap wig for $20-$100.

[Primal Slayer]

Killer Frosts hair was suppose to be real so Caitlin being able to emulate it that fast/easy was eye roll worthy.

[Potanical Pardon]

Why does anyone think the West House is a safe haven of any kind? It must definitely not be insured any more too. For their own safety, they probably should all live in some secret location built with those illusion walls in Star Labs.

[MarkHB]

I, too, loved the 1990 Flash reunion, and hated what happened to Henry.

OTOH, that ending... was Cisco seeing the beginning of the Crisis on Infinite Earths?  I didn't catch whether the skies were red or not.  I'd be stunned if they went there so soon, but if they want to wipe out Earth 2 at the end of the season I can't think of a better way.