S02.E21: Chapter Forty-Three

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Jane plans a big party for Mateo's first birthday, but she gets bad news about her wedding venue. Meanwhile, Michael thinks that Derek and Mutter are secret cohorts; and Jane second guesses her writing skills just as Alba gets a lead on a book publisher.

[Primetimer]

It's 'Matelio's first birthday, but there's no need for his abuelo to share the spotlight.

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[Gin and Tonic]

I thought nothing could be worse than the prospect of Michael dying, but bringing back the stupid love triangle would probably kill my affection for the show more effectively than any character death.

For me it's easily the weakest trope the show utilizes and I want to kill it with fire.

And damn straight Rogelio won "sexiest telenovela star" again. I think the show should cover Jaime Camil in fake sweat and give him manual labor tasks at least once a year.

[SeanC]

I often find it hard to say too much about this show; it's so consistent in its strengths.  Another strong episode.

I was waiting for the twist that the photo Esteban posted contributed to Rogelio's popularity somehow.

Everybody singing in Spanish at the birthday party made me wonder idly about the use of languages in Mateo's upbringing.  I think Abuela is the only one who we ever see speaking Spanish around him.

[elle]

That moment between Michael and Jane with the pinky promise and the kiss ?  I thought "oh, he's a dead man!"

Was there less Latin Lover Narrator tonight?  I seemed to have missed his voice tonight.

Was anyone else worried that Mateo might have whooping cough?

37 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Everybody singing in Spanish at the birthday party made me wonder idly about the use of languages in Mateo's upbringing.  I think Abuela is the only one who we ever see speaking Spanish around him.

I wondered how much they had to pay to use the "birthday tune".

I think you are right about Abuela being the only one to consistantly speaking Spanish around Mateo.  I do think that the others speak Spanish to him as well, just not only Spanish all the time.

Edited May 10, 2016 by elle

[mrsbagnet]

Quote

I wondered how much they had to pay to use the "birthday tune".

As of last year, "Happy Birthday to You" is in the public domain (finally).

I have zero desire to return to the triangle. Watching Raphael pine after Jane is both annoying and painful. As self-righteous as Jane is, I have a tough time understanding how anyone tolerates her.

I'm so glad that Alba said what I always think about first-year birthday parties - they are for the parents. Why not just have an adult party and not pretend it's for the kid?

[Irlandesa]

At least Rafael is consistent...and not in love with Petra. 

I'm a Rafael/Jane fan but even I'm not sure how they go back into the triangle with just an ep to go given what has come for the past ten episodes. Don't get me wrong, I find Michael/Jane to be dull and I'm essentially waiting for something to shake them up. I was expecting that to be death but the previews make it seem like it's something else.   I just thought if it's going to be the triangle, they would have started planting seeds on Jane's side earlier...although the Petra v. Jane scene was a bit more territorial than I expected, I'm not sure it goes far enough.

But let's talk about the real controversy here, who would schedule a wedding less than a week away from their child's birthday which they also planned on celebrating? 

[Lady Calypso]

Why, show? Why do you have to reintroduce the triangle now? I can't buy that Jane would stop the wedding for Rafael, but if this show wants to have a twist that doesn't involve a death....it would just make Jane look like a shitty person. It would feel like Jane only started changing her mind less than a week before the wedding. 

I can't believe that I'm saying this, but at least with the death or attempted death, it would be different. That's how much I hate this stupid love triangle.

It was a small moment, but seeing Rogelio try to teach Michael the Spanish version of Happy Birthday and him failing was really cute. 

So Aneska has been working with her mother for a year now. Ok....and wait, is Magda about to get out of jail? 

So, Derek's the major villain and he locked up Mutter. Ok, then. 

This Petra/Jane fighting may be realistic, but I dislike how it seems to be coming back to Rafael and who loves him more. 

[blugirlami21]

Interesting episode. I was watching and reading the board at the same time so I was waiting for the love triangle to rear it's ugly head again but it was surprisingly subtle.  

I too am a Jafael? fan but now that we've actually been shown what Michael and Jane's relationship was like before I'm finding that I'm ok with them being together. It's a sweet and uncomplicated relationship which is sometimes needed on a show like this.

Rafael still being in love is consistent since their breakups have never really been mutual decisions.  I too was surprised and kind of disappointed by how territorial Jane was and continues to be concerning Rafael and Petra.  I thought their opening scenes were very sweet.

I do wish that Magda would go diaf. She can take Aneska with her. I never thought I would say this but hasn't Petra been through enough?

Edited May 10, 2016 by blugirlami21

[elle]

31 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It was a small moment, but seeing Rogelio try to teach Michael the Spanish version of Happy Birthday and him failing was really cute. 

Rogelio y Michael  #brogelio4ever

Quote

So Aneska has been working with her mother for a year now. Ok....and wait, is Magda about to get out of jail? 

Wait, does that mean that Magda's been plotting this since the original plot point of Jane accidentally getting pregnant with Mateo who is now 1 year old?

[natyxg]

2 hours ago, Gin and Tonic said:

I thought nothing could be worse than the prospect of Michael dying, but bringing back the stupid love triangle would probably kill my affection for the show more effectively than any character death.

LOL, I haven't seen the episode yet, but I did see the promo for the finale and this was my thought, too. That I would take Michael dying over starting the infernal triangle again. And i like Michael a lot, and love him with Jane.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, elle said:

 

Wait, does that mean that Magda's been plotting this since the original plot point of Jane accidentally getting pregnant with Mateo who is now 1 year old?

One year ago would be Mateo's birth.  So it'd go back to when Petra impregnated herself.

[natyxg]

Well I am bummed because I had actually been enjoying this past few episodes away from the triangle from hell and seeing Jane and Petra sort of becoming friends and seeing Michael and Jane being super cute, etc. Now it feels like they've just decided to go back to the beginning, and ZZZZZ. And know that if there is no Michael death or, like someone said, at least an attempt of some sort or something external that stops the weddings, Jane is so gonna leave Michael at the altar. She can't get married and have a wedding night and not be a virgin anymore, yet. And I've always thought the "honor" would be Rafael's because he's Mateo's father and shows are like that.

Can I just say, also, how annoyed I am by how ignored the twins are? It bothers me to see how super important and irreplaceable and special snowflake-y Mateo is, yet the twins seem like they're furniture or something.

So, was that Rose Derek was talking to? I always thought that death seemed fishy and that Susana was acting weird, then. She was still acting weird in this episode, by the way. I thought the whole thing about the hidden money was a lame excuse for the whole hotel thing.

I liked seeing Rogelio getting a taste of crew life and genuinely wanting to support their plight.

[AudienceofOne]

Loved that episode. And while I hate love triangles, it's no big thing that Rafael is still in love with Jane. Rafael's always been in love with Jane.

[omgsowicked]

3 hours ago, natyxg said:

Can I just say, also, how annoyed I am by how ignored the twins are? It bothers me to see how super important and irreplaceable and special snowflake-y Mateo is, yet the twins seem like they're furniture or something.

So, was that Rose Derek was talking to? I always thought that death seemed fishy and that Susana was acting weird, then. She was still acting weird in this episode, by the way. I thought the whole thing about the hidden money was a lame excuse for the whole hotel thing.

I was gonna say, when Petra showed up at the park with the twins, as annoyed as Rafael and Jane were, Raf should have brought Mateo over and said, "hey, look who's here, it's your sisters!" I get that this is Jane's show (and that three young children on set is a lot of labor laws to deal with) but it really does feel like Raf cares about Mateo way more. And since Petra's not that hands-on, it seems like the girls are totally neglected, parental attention-wise. I hope they start showing them being the family they keep saying they are. Jane should have the twins over for playtime with Mateo (well, the girls are still a little young, I guess).

And good idea about Rose, and Susana. I thought she was being weird, too, but it could be excused that she was still shaken up over being shot. I'd like to think she's still on the good side, and not being coerced like Michael's previous partner was (blanking on her name right now) since we've seen that already.

Speaking of (potential) double-crossing, it sucks that Aneska is working against Petra, and with their mother. There's potential, though, since she's still a nervous goofball, despite the con. I swear, I would love nothing more than to never see Magda again. She's such a drag.

[kirinan]

There was some major cute in this episode, but unfortunately my takeaway from it was the two negative things that stood out to me: 1. PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME SIT THROUGH THAT LOVE TRIANGLE AGAIN. You writers are good; surely you can find some other way (short of killing Michael, please) to shake things up. And 2. I've always liked Jane, and I appreciate that she has principles and is a good person, but she really is coming across as increasingly, annoyingly self-righteous.

Okay, one good takeaway: Mateo is absolutely, positively, unquestionably adorable. And I'm not normally a baby person.

Edited May 10, 2016 by kirinan

[Bouffe]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

So Aneska has been working with her mother for a year now. Ok....and wait, is Magda about to get out of jail? 

So, Derek's the major villain and he locked up Mutter. Ok, then. 

This Petra/Jane fighting may be realistic, but I dislike how it seems to be coming back to Rafael and who loves him more. 

I saw Aneska working with Magda from a mile away. I have no idea why they work together, tho. To get back at Petra for putting Magda on jail? 

I was surprised Derek locked up Mutter and disappeared with the money. Although, ya know, I should have expected something like that from a vilain. LOL I really didn't like seeing Michael go in that hotel with no gun...

Jane/Petra fight...  Is it mostly about who loves Rafael more? Or is it more (or also, or partially) for control, for who's the better person, who's the better mom...  All the above? I do feel the fight is realistic, but I would love, love, love, love, LOVE to see a relationship between two mothers who is about acceptance, honesty (even if brutal at times) and compassion. I love when Petra tells Jane to stop being so perfect, and I love when Jane tells Petra to stop being so freaking shady.

More show thoughts:

I'm a team Rafael fan but I don't really like how they are bringing back the love triangle. TPTB showed us what, about 2 episodes worth (if I am being very generous) of Jane being nice and friendly and caring with Rafael... How does she go from wanting to marry Michael to not marrying him in the time span of what, about 2 weeks?

Loved, loved, loved seeing Rogelio being hands on like he was! Sure his motives were selfish (and for Jane's sake, too) but I see him learning as he goes. 

6 hours ago, natyxg said:

So, was that Rose Derek was talking to? I always thought that death seemed fishy and that Susana was acting weird, then. She was still acting weird in this episode, by the way. I thought the whole thing about the hidden money was a lame excuse for the whole hotel thing.

Susanna did act weird in both the instances you mentioned. And yes, Rose's death seemed weird to me, too. Who knows...  This show is always full of twists and turns!

[Bean421]

6 hours ago, natyxg said:

Can I just say, also, how annoyed I am by how ignored the twins are? It bothers me to see how super important and irreplaceable and special snowflake-y Mateo is, yet the twins seem like they're furniture or something.

 

When those girls rise up and destroy the world in their toddlerhood I will be #teamtwins.

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, natyxg said:

Can I just say, also, how annoyed I am by how ignored the twins are? It bothers me to see how super important and irreplaceable and special snowflake-y Mateo is, yet the twins seem like they're furniture or something.

 

I was actually just thinking that. I do think that the lack of the twins make it seem like Mateo's the special snowflake. He gets to have growth while the twins appear onscreen once every couple of episodes. I'd love to see more of the twins. And I say this as a fan of Mateo. I think he's super adorable and enjoy him on screen. But the twins need more so we can know that they're not just a plot device. 

[blugirlami21]

I think the problem with the twins is that they are a plot device. Petra only had them in an attempt to hold onto Rafael and Rafael really didn't have a choice in the matter as per usual. 

I would like to see Petra be their mother but I'm not outraged that they get very little screen time. It is what it is.

I doubt that Jane is going to leave Michael at the altar. I also don't think she's going to be a virgin forever just because it would mess up the show title. It was a very limiting premise from the start and it will be nice to see the show grow beyond it.

Edited May 10, 2016 by blugirlami21

[Artsda]

Quote

 It would feel like Jane only started changing her mind less than a week before the wedding. 

This episode still didn't show her conflicted or changing her mind, all the scenes at the hospital with Michael she was normal. It was Rafael longing looks to them, while they kissed or said ILY.  Rafael declared his love to Jane before and she still chose Michael as her one, so his feelings aren't a shock. But it shows no growth for his character at all to declare it again to Jane. It shows just his selfishness only.

So who are we supposed to think that Derek is talking to on the phone? There's a higher head person than Mutter now?

I really liked the first scene with Jane and Petra resolving and Jane telling Petra family shows up.

Rogelio impressed me with his manual labor and his sticking up for the crew.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Artsda

[vixenbynight]

27 minutes ago, Artsda said:

This episode still didn't show her conflicted or changing her mind, all the scenes at the hospital with Michael she was normal. It was Rafael longing looks to them, while they kissed or said ILY.  Rafael declared his love to Jane before and she still chose Michael as her one, so his feelings aren't a shock. But it shows no growth for his character at all to declare it again to Jane. It shows just his selfishness only.

So who are we supposed to think that Derek is talking to on the phone? There's a higher head person than Mutter now?

I really liked the first scene with Jane and Petra resolving and Jane telling Petra family shows up.

Rogelio impressed me with his manual labor and his sticking up for the crew.

Agreed.

I recall seeing Jane releasing Raf's hand after their moment of reliving the first year of Mateo's birth had passed during that scene in his hospital room.

I don't see any sort of lingering and longing of feelings for Rafael from Jane. She cares for him, because she wants the best for him as Mateo's dad and as her friend. 

Just like how she wants to keep her friendship with Petra going, because she considers her and the twins to be members of her family. 

[elle]

3 hours ago, Bouffe said:

10 hours ago, natyxg said:

So, was that Rose Derek was talking to? I always thought that death seemed fishy and that Susana was acting weird, then. She was still acting weird in this episode, by the way. I thought the whole thing about the hidden money was a lame excuse for the whole hotel thing.

Susanna did act weird in both the instances you mentioned. And yes, Rose's death seemed weird to me, too. Who knows...  This show is always full of twists and turns!

So who else could be Derek's mysterious partner?  We have Susanna, Rose (was she really dead?), Louisa (what happened to her?) or could it be Rafael has a secret twin?!

 

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

One year ago would be Mateo's birth.  So it'd go back to when Petra impregnated herself.

Okay, that is right.  Mateo was born a year ago, so Magda's being working on this plan since then - a plan to replace her less cooperative daughter with the more compliable one?

 

And that was Debbie Allen as Beverly Flores, Alma's publisher friend!

[swimmyfish]

5 hours ago, kirinan said:

 I've always liked Jane, and I appreciate that she has principles and is a good person, but she really is coming across as increasingly, annoyingly self-righteous.

Okay, one good takeaway: Mateo is absolutely, positively, unquestionably adorable. And I'm not normally a baby person.

This was the first episode where I didn't really like Jane. I thought it was good that she still expected Petra to be at her wedding despite their fight in the last episode, but the way she approached was maybe too parental considering Petra is also a grown-up? And the idea that she should have any say - much less the only say - in how Rafael should deal with being blackmailed is also very presumptuous. Not that Petra's plan was necessarily any good, but still; it felt like Jane views Petra as an appendage to her own relationship with Rafael, rather than as a whole person who has her own relationship with Raf that is entirely separate from Jane.

As for Petra's plan, was there any explanation as to what that construction at the Marbella was? That there was suddenly drilling when a conversation needed to be recorded seemed a little sloppy, plotting-wise.

Also, does anyone else think Mutter being left behind is part of the larger plan? I mean, I don't care about the ongoing crime lords and their nebulous plots at all, but the idea of Derek getting the drop on anyone really strains credulity. Besides a drunk Rafael, I guess.

Finally, while I generally avoid spoilers, I really do need to know in advance if Michael is going to be killed on his wedding day. I can't take that kind of unexpected grief in my televisual diversions.

[Enginerd]

The narrator didn't have much memorable to say this week. Maybe he's still hungover.

Poor Rafael. I do NOT want him back with Jane; down with love triangles, but he looks so bereft all the time. I want him to at least have one solid adult friend and confidant who isn't scheming against him and with whom he doesn't have a complicated romantic history.

I'm glad they all acknowledged that Mateo wasn't going to care about or remember his first birthday and that the party was for THEM. Loved Rogelio's book of false memories.

It doesn't bother me that we don't see a lot of the twins. I think it's been implied enough that Rafael spends time with them and it would be difficult for production and not particularly interesting to actually give them a lot of screen time. They're infants. They sleep a lot. I'm kind of glad Petra opted for nannies and isn't breastfeeding and they haven't gotten kidnapped or any of that because we don't need a repeat of the same new mom storylines. Maybe as they get a little older they'll have illnesses and problems of their own. I'm sure Petra will get some wrenches thrown in her hands-off parenting system at some point.

Anezka should switch alliances and help Petra scheme against Magda. Really, Anezka, who do you want on your side? Smart, successful, rich businesswoman, or crabby grifter? Can they get Madga deported?

I think Susanna is definitely hiding something from Michael. Has she been one of Mutter's operatives the whole time?

[kirinan]

10 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

I think Susanna is definitely hiding something from Michael. Has she been one of Mutter's operatives the whole time?

That's what I was thinking, too. Susanna just looked guilty--I can't explain it any better than that, but my plot-twist alarm was binging and bonging like crazy whenever she was on screen. Not that I have the best-quality plot-twist alarm, but when it's going that nuts, I have to wonder. Or, since I'm thinking Derek was talking to Rose, who I've never believed is really dead, she might be working for her. It would certainly play into the "will Michael die?" thing (which, no no no no no, please don't make that happen, show. I can't take losing Beckett from Castle and Michael all in one season).

[Enginerd]

Quote

I thought it was good that she still expected Petra to be at her wedding despite their fight in the last episode, but the way she approached was maybe too parental considering Petra is also a grown-up?

I agree. I think she should have gone to Petra and said something like "I know we're fighting, but I still consider you family and I want to make up and I want you at my wedding." Talking to her like she was a toddler maybe didn't help very much. You can ask for an apology without the patronizing overtones.

I'm not convinced Rose is dead, either. Even if someone who looked like her died, she was running a plastic surgery villain clinic. She could have had someone else changed to look like her and set them up to be killed.

[twoods]

I wish Petra smacked Jane. She was such a condescending bitch, especially at the end. Jane really does think she's better than everyone, and her type A personality really sucks. She sabotaged that girl so she can get that ridiculous entertainer- it's a one year birthday party, not some wedding.

Are they really going along with this ridiculous triangle? Ever since Jane got back together with Michael, she has never looked back on Raf. Now they are bringing it back for some wedding drama? No, thanks.

Rogelio sticking up for his crew was nice.

[AudienceofOne]

1 hour ago, Enginerd said:

I agree. I think she should have gone to Petra and said something like "I know we're fighting, but I still consider you family and I want to make up and I want you at my wedding."

I disagree. I thought that was perfect. An acquaintance would be nice and polite and explain why they want you at their wedding. Family would approach it exactly the way Jane approached it. Doing it that way made Petra feel like family. If I told my brother I wasn't coming to his wedding because we were fighting, he'd also go "The fuck? Family shows up. You're coming".

[Enginerd]

If I had a sister who talked to me like that, and my major issue with her in the first place was that she thought herself superior and talked down to me, having her say to me "now say you're sorry" like I was a little kid would not make me any more inclined to go to her wedding.

I mean, I wouldn't have outright lied to defend Anezka the way Petra did, but assuming I'd done *something* I should apologize for, the apology would be meaningless until I decided on my own I was sorry, so what's the point of being prodded into saying it?

Also, the very idea of attending another gig of a kids' party band the day before your own party is pretty absurd, but I did enjoy the scene. They way they fought during the interludes between the singing was like musical theater. I'm going to have to watch again to see how the argument and the Dino-mites song lyrics juxtaposed.

[natyxg]

2 hours ago, Enginerd said:

I'm not convinced Rose is dead, either. Even if someone who looked like her died, she was running a plastic surgery villain clinic. She could have had someone else changed to look like her and set them up to be killed.

My theory has been all along that maybe she faked her death with Susanna's help and that's why Susanna has been acting so weird all along. She even said something to Michael about understanding him or Nadine, now, after that night, IIRC.  In the hotel room Rose threatened her family, saying she had a man ready to take out her sister and her nephew, I think it was.

[dargosmydaddy]

17 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

Why, show? Why do you have to reintroduce the triangle now? I can't buy that Jane would stop the wedding for Rafael, but if this show wants to have a twist that doesn't involve a death....it would just make Jane look like a shitty person. It would feel like Jane only started changing her mind less than a week before the wedding. 

I can't believe that I'm saying this, but at least with the death or attempted death, it would be different. That's how much I hate this stupid love triangle.

 

I'm wondering if Jane will somehow throw Michael over at the altar (no, Jane, no!), and then something will end up happening to Michael at the end. Double the guilt and drama.

I hope not, though. If I had to bet, I'll say Michael gets badly injured on his way to the wedding (or did the promo show him there? I know we saw Jane...), though I don't think he'll die. Maybe it'll happen right after the wedding, but I kind of think TPTB don't want to commit to a marriage this early on, even if Michael spends a lot of it in a coma/ with amnesia/ whatever.

[Bouffe]

6 minutes ago, pearcake said:

I've also been thinking that Michael's going to die...until this episode stopped and took the time to give us those bittersweet moments of Raf gazing longingly at Jane. Did that scream 'tragic unrequited love' to anyone else??! As in...IT MIGHT BE RAFAEL. Seems like a satisfyingly twisty place for the plot to go - Michael seems obvious/expected (because, well...it's what we're all expecting), and it's hard to believe the show would revive the love triangle when it's taken the Michael/Jane romance to pretty much a point of no (believable) return. Maybe Raf will go out saving Michael's life? I'm already getting teary thinking of him dying, his memories/moments with Jane flashing by, loving her to the end. SNIFF!

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

[elle]

3 hours ago, Enginerd said:

The narrator didn't have much memorable to say this week. Maybe he's still hungover.

Of course!  He was rather out of it at the end of the last episode.

2 hours ago, twoods said:

Rogelio sticking up for his crew was nice.

I love how Rogelio's character is so much more than "vain actor".   I hope we get to see him on the picket line.

3 hours ago, Enginerd said:

Anezka should switch alliances and help Petra scheme against Magda. Really, Anezka, who do you want on your side? Smart, successful, rich businesswoman, or crabby grifter? Can they get Madga deported?

How long did it take Petra to finally stand up to Magda and keep from being pulled back in?  (and wasn't Jane involved helping her with this?)  I don't see Anezka going against Magda, at least, not until she (Anezka) has fully become Petra-with-Rafeal.   Then Magda might be in for a surprise when her other daughter turns on her.

4 hours ago, swimmyfish said:

As for Petra's plan, was there any explanation as to what that construction at the Marbella was? That there was suddenly drilling when a conversation needed to be recorded seemed a little sloppy, plotting-wise.

I know these people don't have time to watch TV, so they haven't learned anything from the many crime procedurals that would tell you that you don't  have an inconvenient remodel during an important "meeting" and you use more than one recording device in a sting.

I'm glad that Jane was able to recognize the good advice from her adviser and not give her manuscript to the publisher.  A small moment of sanity for her in a very overwrought (too many parties) episode.

I missed the beginning, was there a scene with Jane explaining to her advisers the whole story about the email/Anezka/Petra?  I would love to see their reactions and wonder why they don't suggest she should write about her life.

[natyxg]

1 hour ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I'm wondering if Jane will somehow throw Michael over at the altar (no, Jane, no!), and then something will end up happening to Michael at the end. Double the guilt and drama.

I hope not, though. If I had to bet, I'll say Michael gets badly injured on his way to the wedding (or did the promo show him there? I know we saw Jane...), though I don't think he'll die. Maybe it'll happen right after the wedding, but I kind of think TPTB don't want to commit to a marriage this early on, even if Michael spends a lot of it in a coma/ with amnesia/ whatever.

Michael was at the altar with Jane, in the promo.

[dargosmydaddy]

40 minutes ago, natyxg said:

Michael was at the altar with Jane, in the promo.

OK. So that leaves something stopping them at the altar, or tragedy afterwards. Or both!

I really don't think they'd permanently kill off any of the main cast, at least at this stage. It's not that type of show.

[Irlandesa]

14 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

I think the problem with the twins is that they are a plot device. Petra only had them in an attempt to hold onto Rafael and Rafael really didn't have a choice in the matter as per usual. 

I would like to see Petra be their mother but I'm not outraged that they get very little screen time. It is what it is.

Exactly.  I don't love that they exist so I'm fine with them being in the background.  This show has always prioritized not just Mateo but Jane/Mateo.  It feels like Rafael already has been shown having more alone time with them than he got with a very young Mateo.  We see them in every ep.  They exist.  They have the same trust fund as Mateo.  I don't need to see them more.  But hell, I'm not a huge baby fan. I would be fine seeing Mateo less than we do.

7 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I'm wondering if Jane will somehow throw Michael over at the altar (no, Jane, no!), and then something will end up happening to Michael at the end. Double the guilt and drama.

I don't see it being both. I see it being one or the other.  I'm starting to wonder if something happens before the wedding so Jane's conflicted face and Rafael's speech to her before the wedding (assuming it's real) make more sense.

6 hours ago, pearcake said:

I've also been thinking that Michael's going to die...until this episode stopped and took the time to give us those bittersweet moments of Raf gazing longingly at Jane. Did that scream 'tragic unrequited love' to anyone else??! As in...IT MIGHT BE RAFAEL.

What would Jane do for the rest of her life?  Sit around with her family and sing kumbaya?  They've removed any sense of internal conflict between Jane and Michael. He pretty  much agrees with her on everything.  With Rafael gone, she and Michael could just raise Mateo any way they want.  It would also eliminate any need she has to work closely with Petra.  Their children would be siblings but they don't have to be raised the same way.  That's why I don't see them killing Rafael.  The show is at its strongest when it's about internal struggles based on characterization.  When they have to rely on plot only, it gets much more boring.  I don't see Rafael dying. 

And the only way I see Michael dying is if everything goes perfectly next week.  And when I say perfectly, I don't mean that there can't be obstacles but if the course of her life is still on track, then that'd be a way to get it off track.  And I do think the course of her life needs a shake up. It makes for TV that just treads water.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Irlandesa

[possibilities]

Count me as surprised Petra's plan didn't work; I was certain there was a second recorder and that Rafael was deliberately tipping Derrick off to destroy the first one and then speak in a freely incriminating manner.

I am confused about when we're seeing RealPetra vs AneskaFakingPetra. I thought it was RealPetra all through this episode til the scene with Magda, but then from their conversation it seemed like Aneska was celebrating the success of her plans, which seemed odd since I didn't think we'd seen her doing anything much yet in her FakePetra role.

I love that Rogelio did not consider the crew's job beneath him, and that the show was so firm about not crossing a picket line.

[vixenbynight]

21 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

OK. So that leaves something stopping them at the altar, or tragedy afterwards. Or both!

I really don't think they'd permanently kill off any of the main cast, at least at this stage. It's not that type of show.

I don't think that either Michael or Rafael will get killed off.

I also don't think that Jane will pull a "Runaway Bride" and leave Michael at the altar or run off to be with Rafael. 

I guess, I don't believe that the show has to kill off Jane's fiance or have her gain a last minute change of heart to not tread water between the end of this season to the next one.

[Gardencrown]

One thing I've been thinking about: wasn't it Rose's gang that made over the faces of all the various people? What if someone isn't who they really appear to be? My money's on Anezka or Susannah. The writers made a point of reminding us of this in the past weeks, so???

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Okay, one good takeaway: Mateo is absolutely, positively, unquestionably adorable.

Indeed! Indeed!!!!

Neither Michael nor Rafael is going to die. Hands over my hears "La, la, la!"

[butterly17]

If Jane dumps Michael... she is a real asshole.

[nilyank]

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If Jane dumps Michael... she is a real asshole.

In front of their family and friends? Yep, she would be.

I really hope that she doesn't do it. Also, how could Magda's plan for Rafael, Petra and Anezka work if Jane goes back to Rafael? That would need a few episodes to build and be eventually exposed.

[Enginerd]

But what if someone threatened Jane and made her dump Michael? Say they threatened to murder him, or Mateo, or another member of Jane's family if she didn't? Who would do such a thing? Could be any reason! Maybe Nadine's still alive and wants Michael for herself. Maybe the crazy stalkery girlfriend who Jane was almost friends with will reappear. Maybe one of the many crime lords want to get Michael down in the dumps so they can try to use him for their own purposes. Maybe his sketchy brother will be up to something sketchy. Maybe someone will give Jane convincing evidence (that may eventually prove false, but not fast enough) that Michael has done something evil, just before the ceremony. Any number of things can thwart a telenovela wedding.

[NUguy514]

Kill the goddamn love triangle! Kill it now! There's just no way I can now buy Jane with Rafael; it would also apparently require her to dump Michael at the altar, and I think she would be irredeemable if she did that, exigent circumstances or not.

I personally think Justin Baldoni is such a boring actor that I'd be delighted if they killed him off. He has no chemistry with anyone on the show, and I never bought his romance with Jane. I have a friend who works on the show;  when I mentioned how little chemistry I thought Baldoni had with the the other actors, my friend said, "He has chemistry. With himself." So, yeah, even though it won't happen, I'd love for him to go.

Jane was such a self-righteous bitch to Petra in that last scene of theirs.

[BoogieBurns]

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I am confused about when we're seeing RealPetra vs AneskaFakingPetra.

So confused. I'm trying to see if they made her hair color a bit of a different blonde. Because Petra had darker roots in some scenes. It was not clear at all. 

I thought Aneska was giving Rafael the bad advice and allowing his brother to figure him out. But, no reason other than me knowing there is an evil twin. 

[Enginerd]

I genuinely do not see the bad acting or lack of chemistry that other see in Rafael. I believe you all that it's what you see, but eye of the beholder and whatnot, I guess; I just want to point out that it isn't a universal opinion or a fact. I see a good portrayal of an introvert, which I appreciate because I often think introverts are underrepresented on television. I enjoy his exchanges with the other characters. I think he's an empathetic character, in the way he's been so mistreated by his family and friends but clings to his happy family fantasy. But I also see a lot more chemistry and entertainment value when he steps out of that restrained  I particularly loved when he and Jane were in therapy and imitating each other, and when he's being a sleazebag in flashbacks, and in the campy fantasy scenes.

[DianeDobbler]

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Okay, that is right.  Mateo was born a year ago, so Magda's being working on this plan since then - a plan to replace her less cooperative daughter with the more compliable one?

Wow, of course. I was trying to figure out what the plan would be, but of course that's the plan.

Ever since Petra had the twins, I've figured she and Rafael would be end game. Jane the Virgin's premise is striving working class girl from close family is mistakenly inseminated/impregnated by sperm sample from rich, handsome playboy obviously on the other side of the social divide. Clearly there's your story. To have his ex-wife discover there's a spare sample, successfully impregnate herself and give birth to twin girls while working with her ex in the same business seems to bizarrely dilute the premise of the series, unless they wanted to do that.

I am not a Justin Baldani fan. Never saw him before Jane the Virgin (nor did I know any of the younger leads, for that matter). I certainly hope the finale is NOT a renewal of the triangle. For one thing, as engaging as Jane may be, I don't buy that two men would be irrevocably in love with her the rest of their lives in this way. When I started the show, and Michael was initially shown to be a bit controlling under that boy next door exterior, I figured he'd soon be history, or else a villain, and of course they'd develop Rafael/Jane. I was so convinced, I even guessed that Michael would hop on his partner, Nadine, behind Jane's back at some point, out of frustration over the pregnancy and his jealousy of her bond with Rafael. So that is to say I didn't start out pro-Michael and anti-Rafael, but after binge-watching, I realize I just think Baldani is so miscast. Even his looks don't do it for me. I know he's got that "type" down, but there's something off about the whole thing for me, where it goes up to the line of goofy/smarmy/stupid. He's hopeless at this genre, and very inept at the extremes - the anger, the emotion, and especially the funny - of the genre. I'm not sure Brett Dier has loads of natural chemistry with Gina Rodriguez either, but he's so damn charming, he has chemistry with everybody, which puts Michael ahead of the game. I think his character is much more entertaining than Rafael's, and has the best job. I think the show would be less without Dier, and if they broke up him and Jane, there's nothing to tie him to the rest of the show. Rafael has Mateo tying him to Jane, and Petra has the twins tying her to Rafael, but Michael doesn't have that. It gets ridiculous after a point to re-set a triangle, and I don't believe in this one at this point. I have to say the "type" - the wounded, rich, lonely playboy, has been done to death on shows and rarely successfully. Often due to casting problems.

Edited May 18, 2016 by DianeDobbler

[Enginerd]

I agree. Rafael is so tied in to the rest of the cast and plots, they can let him move on from Jane and he'd still have a reason to be around. And I have never seen compelling evidence that he's lifelong hopelessly in love with Jane and can't move on. He likes the idea of having a solid loving family. I think if meets someone else who is authentic and principled and a dreamer in similar ways to what he likes about Jane, he could love that woman just as well. Especially once he believes that his kids aren't going anywhere just because he's not romantically involved with their mothers. Although Anezka seems intent on making a play for him while pretending to be Petra.

[DianeDobbler]

Rafael doesn't seem like such a dreamer to me. The times he hung out at Jane's, driving around with her, etc., wasn't really convincing. He's the most believable as the hotel guy.

[Chas411]

Ugh disappointed with the triangle reintroduction. I feel sorry for Petra in all of this. I agree with her as well that it's annoying Jane has to be right all the time and look down her nose at Petra all the time. 

Rafael looks at Petra the way Jane looks at him - never going to be good enough