S01.E10: Fun Ways to Tell Boyfriend You're Pregnant

[formerlyfreedom]

In an ironic twist, Hank believes he has key evidence to help Nina solve Adam’s case, and, more importantly, make himself a hero. Willa’s suspicions about Ben intensify when she makes a shocking discovery about what really happened to Adam. Meanwhile, Jane turns to an unlikely source for help when she goes into labor and Doug is nowhere to be found. Bridey betrays Willa in an effort to grab the “front page” for her story, and Nina gets a shocking visit.

 

 

[Major Bigtime]

Damn thunderstorm knocked out my satellite for a portion of the show. I saw where Hank tells them he's not moving and the police are searching his house, Willa starts asking Ben about his time with Adam and the FBI agent tells Jane he's feeling sick. It came back on when Claire told the female cop to go to hell....and Ben tells Willa that yes, he hurt Adam....and Jane has her baby.

Bridey disgusts me. I can't believe Pocky came in and turned himself in.

[KaveDweller]

Just how many underground bunkers does Pocky have? One in the woods, one in his house, and now another at some cabin?

Teenage Willa and Danny reacted to their situation in completely opposite ways, which is kind of interesting. She tried to take care of everyone and he started hating everyone. It was nice to see Danny trying to protect Willa, even if she totally doesn't deserve it. 

I liked the moment where Clemmons told Jane he was sorry and when she asked why said because she'd given birth to a boy. That was really creepy, but in a good way.

I still don't really get why Hank's birdhouse is evidence that Pocky did anything. Proof that he'd been at Hank's house before, but that doesn't seem like concrete evidence of anything. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Major Bigtime]

Hank thinks that when Pocky came to fix the cabinets and drawers, that's when he first spotted Adam, then sees him again at the rally with his birdhouses. Which is where Adam disappeared. It's not proof of anything, barely circumstantial, yet Hank is hellbent on the cop heralding him a hero. Honestly, I can't blame him, I'd be doing anything to clear my name in the minds of everyone, whatever it takes.

[Madding crowd]

I would hope the FBI agent can still find a way to escape, even without the keys. I would think Jane and the baby would need some medical attention too. Women do give birth at home, but usually with a midwife who can make sure the placenta delivers etc. I did wonder how Doug can afford a house and this big cabin. I can't figure out what type of information he is getting from Ben, or why Ben is agreeing to meet with him. Then he takes the keys away but turns himself in. Is he supposed to be protecting Jane? Even if he admits to killing the FBI agent, Jane is on the premises. 

I really hope that Ben was not involved in killing Adam. The show is doing one of those things where someone starts to explain something, than gets all cryptic and shuts down. I can't imagine Willa not demanding immediate answers. Still don't know why Bridey is on this show.

[KaveDweller]

I don't blame Hank for jumping on the lead, but it seems weird that the cops would go along with it. But I guess Nina isn't exactly the greatest cop, so maybe that explains it.

[Free]

1 hour ago, Major Bigtime said:

Hank thinks that when Pocky came to fix the cabinets and drawers, that's when he first spotted Adam, then sees him again at the rally with his birdhouses. Which is where Adam disappeared. It's not proof of anything, barely circumstantial, yet Hank is hellbent on the cop heralding him a hero. Honestly, I can't blame him, I'd be doing anything to clear my name in the minds of everyone, whatever it takes.

Even this flimsy piece of evidence is still more than anything the agents have done throughout this investigation.

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

I don't blame Hank for jumping on the lead, but it seems weird that the cops would go along with it. But I guess Nina isn't exactly the greatest cop, so maybe that explains it.

It's no wonder Claire was so easily able to drop truth bombs on her.

[bref]

I've probably forgotten a prior scene, but how did Nina know Adam is not Adam? 

This show is kind of a mess but it's still keeping my interest, primarily due to the performances. I find the young man playing Ben particularly riveting.

[thuganomics85]

Both Danny and Willa were kind of off in their own ways in the flashbacks.  Danny obviously didn't have much sympathy for his parents and was surprisingly heartless at times (even though he had a point about how they needed to remember they have other children), but Willa seemed almost too put together.  She barely acted like she only just lost a brother a few months ago.  But I think the flashback did help show why both of them are the way now.  I still enjoy their scenes in the present.  Danny telling Bridey to quit fucking around with Willa was nice in a slightly weird way.  Of course, Bridey isn't listening.  I don't have anything against Bridey wanting the big story, but it continues to feel like she has a personal vendetta over Willa daring to mislead her, even though she does that all the damn time.  I'm still wondering what the point of this character will be in the long run.

Hank gloating and being so smug about finding the evidence that points Doug to being the kidnapper wasn't very nice of him, but I can almost understand it considering how obnoxious Nina is.  I know I was suppose to be happy for her for standing up to Claire, but I'm pretty much with Claire on this one.  Sure, Claire is totally hiding that Adam is actually Ben because she wants to win a campaign, but Nina was such an incompetent cop that she allowed Adam's true kidnapper to be on the loose for ten years.

Really can't figure out how John figured that all he needed to do was pay for Hank's dinner and be nicer to him, in order for Hank to spill out any info. Doesn't John know he's talking to the guy who at one point injured himself in order to try and set-up John?

Still can't buy that they are treating this governor race like it is no big deal, and how Claire has this in the bag because of one good debate performance.  In real life, they should be doubling down and campaigning nonstop, because Lang would be going after her with everything he's got, and even without the Adam/Ben issue, there are plenty of things his campaign would probably be bringing up, that she would need a good rebuttal for.

Ben is still meeting up with Doug for some reason.  My current theory now is that Adam is actually still alive, and Doug has him, so Ben is doing his bidding for Adam's sake.  I just can't see them making Ben an actual bad guy.

Glad Clemonts is still alive even though he really shouldn't be.

[izabella]

I didn't quite catch what Jane was saying that Doug did 12 years ago.  Did Doug kidnap a third child as well?  Or did he "only" molest Eric? 

[Bobbin]

So, alcoholic Danny, pedophile Hank and gay Agent Clements are the only good guys in this saga, the only ones to do no harm, and all three innocent victims in their way? Interesting.

Nina has reason to believe that Adam is really Ben after following him one night to the foster home that Ben supposedly ran away from around the same time that Adam disappeared. So John and Danny are the only ones that don't know Adam is Ben, the two who most of all should know that it's not Adam.

Ironic that Doug would walk into the police station, point to his wanted poster and say, "That's  me," the same as Adam/Ben did at the beginning. Supposedly he has nothing fear, as there is no physical evidence linking him to either boy.

[Major Bigtime]

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I don't have anything against Bridey wanting the big story, but it continues to feel like she has a personal vendetta over Willa daring to mislead her, even though she does that all the damn time

 

I think Bridey is a cold, calculating bitch as I watched her download the contents of Willa's laptop with an almost gleeful look on her face.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, bref said:

I've probably forgotten a prior scene, but how did Nina know Adam is not Adam? 

This show is kind of a mess but it's still keeping my interest, primarily due to the performances. I find the young man playing Ben particularly riveting.

Ben mentioned the name Ben and foster homes in therapy.  Nina went to his foster home and saw his picture on the mantle and the man told her he'd run away and he didn't report it because he didn't want to lose his license to foster kids.  

It's a small role but if you like Liam James, he also played the main character's son in The Killing, which has its faults but is a better show than this one, I think.

[bref]

Oh, thank you Winston. I don't know why I have trouble retaining details of this show from week to week. I do remember thinking that a cop being able to watch tapes of someone's therapy sessions was ludicrous. : )

[kitlee625]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Both Danny and Willa were kind of off in their own ways in the flashbacks.  Danny obviously didn't have much sympathy for his parents and was surprisingly heartless at times (even though he had a point about how they needed to remember they have other children), but Willa seemed almost too put together.  She barely acted like she only just lost a brother a few months ago.  But I think the flashback did help show why both of them are the way now.  I still enjoy their scenes in the present.  Danny telling Bridey to quit fucking around with Willa was nice in a slightly weird way.

I really loved that flashback, and seeing the siblings interact in the present as well. It's interesting to see just how much Claire and John just fell apart and spent all their time passed out / drunk. It agree that it showed why Willa and Danny are the way they are now. I feel like Willa sees her mother's political career as the only thing that pulled her out of that depression in the first place. I did really want Willa to confide in her brother. Maybe she will eventually.

 

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Ben is still meeting up with Doug for some reason.  My current theory now is that Adam is actually still alive, and Doug has him, so Ben is doing his bidding for Adam's sake.  I just can't see them making Ben an actual bad guy.

Glad Clemonts is still alive even though he really shouldn't be.

I am super interesting in why Pocky and Ben are meeting up, and what Pocky's reason for turning himself in is. I seriously doubt that it's out of the goodness of his heart. I wonder if this is his way out -- turning himself as the wanted man, but managing to escape due to lack of physical evidence. He obviously has something on Ben now, and perhaps he's certain that Ben won't ID him as the kidnapper. As to why Ben would do that, I think it's possible that he's doing this to protect Adam, also possible that Ben is afraid that Pocky will point the finger at him for Adam's death.

[Cassandre]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 My current theory now is that Adam is actually still alive, and Doug has him, so Ben is doing his bidding for Adam's sake.  I just can't see them making Ben an actual bad guy.

 

Well, about Adam... 

Spoiler

Adam is dead.  Unless the showrunner lied about it. She clearly said Adam was dead. (http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-family-postmortem-willa-ben-adam/) 

 But Maybe Doug told Ben he wasn't. Now he's trying to do the right thing ? 

I just wonder why Ben told Willa he hurt him. I didn't believe him. I was more convinced he did something when he was in therapy than when he clearly admitted he did hurt him. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Cassandre

[marcee]

Ben is probably confused. Many abused children still "love" their abusers - even as they're terrified. Doug is the only "family" Ben has ever known. Adam had a family - so he always knew Doug was a monster. Ben...Ben never had a real family. Doug has complete control of Ben. It's not Ben's fault. Sure, Ben escaped - but did he REALLY escape? Can you blame Ben for doing Doug's bidding? Doug found him in his new "safe" family home. So when Doug tells him to meet him or he'll come back and take him or hurt his new family, Ben does what he's told. And when Doug tells Ben that when the police ask him if he's the kidnapper, Ben should say "No" - that's likely what Ben will say. So Doug thinks he's safe - all circumstantial evidence and an eye-witness that denies he's the bad guy...they'll have to let him go.

I doubt Ben really hurt Adam. They probably had a fight; kids fight. Maybe Adam got hurt; maybe the wound got infected and Adam got sick. Ben might blame himself or maybe Doug placed the blame on him to exert even more control. I don't see Ben being the bad guy. No matter how this shakes out, he was a victim. I do still hold out hope that Adam will turn out to be alive somehow - maybe second season mystery...

[jhlipton]

8 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

 

I think Bridey is a cold, calculating bitch as I watched her download the contents of Willa's laptop with an almost gleeful look on her face.

I was hoping Willa was faking sleep, or would wake up in time to catch Bridey.

[designing1]

Maybe I missed something -- this show is pretty dull to me, and I zone out a lot -- but did Bridey flip open that laptop to find it not protected by a password? Or was there a password and she knew/guessed it? Because it makes no sense that someone running a political campaign (or anyone, really) would allow such easy access to their computer.

[ari333]

Adam was Ben's only companion and could have helped in overpowering Pocky. I cant see Ben hurting Adam just for talking about his family. Sheesh

[Vivigirl10]

My least favorite episode so far.

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He obviously has something on Ben now, and perhaps he's certain that Ben won't ID him as the kidnapper. 

Based on the previews this is 100% what is going to happen.  He knows that Ben won't ID him so he turned himself in.  If you throw out a witness ID, what do they really have on him?

I absolutely loved Claire letting Nina have it in the interrogation room.  But Nina's response?  A self-satisfied smug grin?  My hate knows no bounds for this fool.  What redeeming qualities does this character have?  I'm starting to wonder if she's a psychopath herself.....she is clearly incapable of feeling any remorse.  Or she's such a narcissist she doesn't believe she can do wrong?  She put Hank in jail for 10 years yet taunts him to his face (no remorse/not wrong).  She kills the man in the hotel room in cold blood (no remorse/not wrong).  She further damages an already devastated family by having an affair with the Father (no remorse/not wrong).  Is there more???

[izabella]

3 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

 Is there more???

Well, she wanted to go and search Doug's house before getting a warrant, which would have invalidated any arrests and wouldn't have allowed them to use anything they did find in court, so she is still being a terrible detective, 10 years later.

[JapMo]

Don't buy for a minute that Jane is innocent in all this.  I think Pocky is doing this all for her and she's been fully aware and wholeheartedly complicit in everything he's done.  I'm in the minority here that I'm not happy that the FBI guy is still alive.  Totally ridiculous that she's keeping him alive, especially that she's climbing down ladders, etc. to bring him food when she's 9 months pregnant. 

Wow.  Danny's been on a 10 year bender yet his brain is still sharp enough to figure out....just from a stuffed animal...that Bridey is sleeping with his sister?  Or did I miss something?  Because I was shocked he was able to figure it out with so little information.  Speaking of Danny, the actor portraying him, Zach Gilford, has a bit of name recognition, so why is he always on so little...and doing the exact same thing over and over?  The most interesting scenes with Danny last night were ten-years-ago-Danny.  An unknown actor gets the better scenes over an actor who has been in several tv shows and movies?  That makes no sense.  The only conclusion I can draw, and it's pure speculation, is there's some kind of problem between the actor and the show, and they are just giving him the absolute briefest air time in order to meet their contractual obligations. 

I liked the scenes of 10-years-ago Danny, but they should have come 5 episodes ago.  Every other character is so much more fleshed out, and we're just now seeing how Danny reacted to his brother's kidnapping.

Liked Andrew McCarthy's portrayal of Hank last night, feeling he had the upper hand.  And his comment to John....'ask your girlfriend'....loved it.

I think they are setting Bridey up to be murdered (hooray), which might be why the FBI agent was spared.  That might be their season finale cliffhanger.  Unfortunately, I don't think they will get another season. 

[txhorns79]

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So, alcoholic Danny, pedophile Hank and gay Agent Clements are the only good guys in this saga, the only ones to do no harm, and all three innocent victims in their way? Interesting.

Agent Clements is out.  He helped Nina cover up her murder of a kidnapper in a previous episode. 

[ari333]

I was kind of shocked that there's another home and yet another bunker.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kiki620 said:

I absolutely loved Claire letting Nina have it in the interrogation room.  But Nina's response?  A self-satisfied smug grin?  My hate knows no bounds for this fool.  What redeeming qualities does this character have?  I'm starting to wonder if she's a psychopath herself.....she is clearly incapable of feeling any remorse.  Or she's such a narcissist she doesn't believe she can do wrong?  She put Hank in jail for 10 years yet taunts him to his face (no remorse/not wrong).  She kills the man in the hotel room in cold blood (no remorse/not wrong).  She further damages an already devastated family by having an affair with the Father (no remorse/not wrong).  Is there more???

I think this was just crappy writing more than Nina being a psycho but when the Warrens were reunited with "Adam" in the first episode, she gave them about 3 seconds to hug then said, "Ok, shut it down."  WTF?

2 hours ago, JapMo said:

Don't buy for a minute that Jane is innocent in all this.  I think Pocky is doing this all for her and she's been fully aware and wholeheartedly complicit in everything he's done.

I would love that but we saw a scene of it dawning on her that Doug did this, and her being terrified and revolted and contemplating running away from him.  If the writers just threw that in for misdirection it's pretty dirty pool, but it wouldn't be the first instance in this show, either.  

[rue721]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Ben is still meeting up with Doug for some reason.  My current theory now is that Adam is actually still alive, and Doug has him, so Ben is doing his bidding for Adam's sake.  I just can't see them making Ben an actual bad guy.

That was my theory, too. Even if Adam really is dead, Doug might have lied to Ben and told him that he's holding Adam in some secret location. That would give Ben a reason to protect Doug, since in that scenario, Adam would be relying on Doug to get him food/water, and would die if Doug were arrested or in jail for long.

Or maybe it's a little darker than that, and Doug is threatening to hurt the Warrens or reveal some devastating "secret" about Ben (or Adam) unless Ben does as he says. Maybe Doug is threatening to reveal the location of Adam's body and out Ben as an imposter, unless Ben denies that Doug had anything to do with Adam's kidnapping or death at all. Regardless, it's clear that Doug is blackmailing Ben somehow, and is confident that the blackmail is powerful enough as leverage to keep Ben from identifying him as the kidnapper (which is why he decided to go ahead and turn himself in, imo).

I feel awful for Ben. It seems impossible to me that he maliciously hurt -- let alone killed -- Adam. But I think that Ben does feel responsible for Adam's disappearance and/or death somehow. Maybe he feels responsible for Doug taking Adam because Doug claimed that he'd done it to give Ben some company. After all, when Doug told Ben that he was going to kidnap someone else, ostensibly so that Ben wouldn't be alone, Ben became desperate to escape. Or maybe he thinks that he got Adam killed by "letting" him get sick, and "letting" Doug take him from the bunker. Or maybe he just feels guilty for letting Doug go free now in exchange for Doug allowing him to continue "usurping" Adam within the Warren family. 

Ben also seemed more assertive and confident in this episode than he has been before. I think that he's getting really attached to Claire, and thriving on the attention/affection she's giving him. She gave HIM, not Adam, that watch, and she wanted to celebrate HIS birthday even though it's not the same as Adam's, and that seemed to mean a lot to him (especially considering how he was fingering the watch when he was talking to Doug in the park). He clearly wants to start calling her "mom" again, too. Claire keeps talking about how he's a stranger and that she's worried about getting her heart broken, but the truth is that he's a lot more vulnerable than she is, and he's liable to be the one who ends up with a broken heart.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Ben mentioned the name Ben and foster homes in therapy.  Nina went to his foster home and saw his picture on the mantle and the man told her he'd run away and he didn't report it because he didn't want to lose his license to foster kids.  

Also, she saw him using his left hand and knew Adam was right handed. Although he wasn't actually writing with his left hand, so that piece of evidence is pretty flimsy.

I'm sort of dreading Nina asking Ben to ID Pockey and having Ben say "No that's not him." I can see it coming a mile away and it's irritating. I guess Pockey can ID Ben and blow the whole story out of the water but Ben does have a point - that means Pockey has to admit he had two victims and one died. But I'm not sure what the difference would be in sentencing or whether Pockey would care.

[kitlee625]

5 hours ago, designing1 said:

Maybe I missed something -- this show is pretty dull to me, and I zone out a lot -- but did Bridey flip open that laptop to find it not protected by a password? Or was there a password and she knew/guessed it? Because it makes no sense that someone running a political campaign (or anyone, really) would allow such easy access to their computer.

Yeah I found that very unrealistic. Everyone I know has their computer password protected.

[BonnieD]

I'm so sick of TV depictions of giving birth that end with the delivery of the baby. Jane had to cut the cord, deliver the placenta and clean herself up, which obviously they aren't going to show all of, but still having her sit there and chat after what she'd been through. No freakin' way. The whole baby delivery business was simply ridiculous.
Enough with the underground bunkers already. The moment the FBI started into the shed in the house in town just as Jane went for the door, I knew it was misdirection and we were going to see yet another underground hidey-hole. Dumb. And how hard would it be to find out what other properties Doug owns, even if under a fake name?
So from everyone's comments about no season two I assume the ratings are terrible? I hope to heaven they don't leave it on a cliff hanger. Even if the wrap up is rushed, it's better than that. Nothing worse than a show cancelled on a cliffhanger. Anybody recall The Riches?? I LOVED that show, own both seasons of it, and cringe every time I near the non-ending.

[iMonrey]

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I'm so sick of TV depictions of giving birth that end with the delivery of the baby. Jane had to cut the cord, deliver the placenta and clean herself up, which obviously they aren't going to show all of, but still having her sit there and chat after what she'd been through. No freakin' way. The whole baby delivery business was simply ridiculous.

Not to mention Agent Clements expected her to go back up the stairs right after giving birth. Ouchie!

[Texasmom1970]

5 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

Yeah I found that very unrealistic. Everyone I know has their computer password protected.

I don't, but then again my Mom is not running for political office and I am not hiding the fact that I brought a complete stranger into my home posing to me my missing/dead brother. And whatever shady shit she has been up to!

[Guest]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, she saw him using his left hand and knew Adam was right handed. Although he wasn't actually writing with his left hand, so that piece of evidence is pretty flimsy.

I'm sort of dreading Nina asking Ben to ID Pockey and having Ben say "No that's not him." I can see it coming a mile away and it's irritating. I guess Pockey can ID Ben and blow the whole story out of the water but Ben does have a point - that means Pockey has to admit he had two victims and one died. But I'm not sure what the difference would be in sentencing or whether Pockey would care.

I imagine that he'd be charged with some sort of murder in addition to multiple counts of the kidnapping/abduction/molestation stuff.  

7 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

Yeah I found that very unrealistic. Everyone I know has their computer password protected.

Mine isn't but I also don't do shots of vodka at home then grab it to take with me on a bootie call with a nosy reporter.  And I haven't done anything illegal.

I found it more ridiculous that Bridey was downloading it in full view of the bed.  Why not take it into the bathroom and lock the door?

I laughed at the "Not a good idea, I had the whole fried catfish" line, and "I still have gravel in my panties from last time."  Also, "She's special.  Not like that, not in a good way, like she's weird."  And at my teen, "Poor guy is gay and he has to sit there and watch that baby being born."  

[breezy424]

I missed one episode.  Did Claire ever ask Ben about 'his' family?  Has this ever come up?  Wouldn't that be one of the first questions you would ask when you find out this kid is not your son?

[Bobbin]

Who's to say Willa isn't playing Bridey? Maybe Willa's laptop was left unprotected on purpose.

I think the biggest thing Doug has to hold over Ben is threatening to reveal to the world that he's not Adam and taking away Ben's forever family.

As for an unresolved cliffhanger, don't rule out the possibility of the producers hoping the show might be picked up by someone else if it's not renewed by the network. Cable networks are always in need of content.

[truthaboutluv]

Had to catch up on the DVR a day later but I'm now more convinced that Adam is probably still alive and I still don't believe that Ben tried to kill him. I believe Ben's confession to Willa probably had to do with him accidentally hurting Adam and therefore thinking he's responsible for his death. Ben told Willa last episode that Adam hit his head, then got really sick and then he died. I think what happened is they were probably having a fight/argument, he shoved Adam and Adam hit his head.

And then Adam got sick, maybe due to a concussion that obviously wasn't looked at by a doctor or medical professional and he started getting sicker. Doug eventually took him away and put him who knows where (since judging by this episode, Doug seems to have numerous hiding spots). However, Ben naturally assumed he died and therefore thought it was his fault because he's the one who shoved Adam. I don't doubt that yes, Ben did both love and hate Adam, as evidenced by how badly he wants to be in this family but I still don't think in the end he deliberately murdered Adam in cold blood. Of course with the batshit crazy looks Willa was giving him and with how batshit crazy she is in general, I'm starting to think Ben will be the tragedy at the end of the season with Willa killing him, thinking he murdered Adam, only for Adam to show up in the season (series I guess with the ratings) finale. 

I'm sorry, I get that having a grieving mother who was just sleeping her days away and a drunk, cheating father sucked, but teenage Danny was an asshole. And frankly, when he told Claire that she had two other children when she reminded him her child died, I wanted her to say, "one of them is you, big whoop..." Being an asshole at a public event for Adam in front of so many people was just incredibly self-absorbed and selfish and inexcusable. And frankly, every other flashback shown makes it appear like he never seemed to give a shit that Adam went missing and ultimately died. And then he became even more of a cliche by becoming a drunk, which seems to be his only purpose now. 

I continue to want Bridey killed. Meanwhile, while I want to sympathize with Hank for what he went through, he's also such a creepy, kind of obnoxious asshole that I just don't. And awful as Claire is, I can't say I didn't enjoy her laying into Nina the way she did. Doug's girlfriend continues to be a waste of space and I liked the FBI guy pointing out to her that the baby is a boy. Since she clearly doesn't give a shit about anyone else's kid, maybe protecting hers will be enough to get her to sell out her sick and perverted criminal boyfriend. Of course judging by Doug going to Nina, I have a feeling he'll find a way to flip this on her. 

Because I think it's clear he's manipulated and blackmailed Ben into not saying anything about him by saying he'll just tell everyone who Ben really is and blow the whole thing. Of course the problem with that angle is that Ben made a great point in saying that Doug saying who Ben really is will only be making things worse for himself because it'll then prove he kidnapped TWO boys and one of those boys is missing, which means there's murder added to his charges. Of course Doug could have countered by simply telling Ben that just the 10 years of kidnapping and abuse would put him in jail long enough that he wouldn't have anything to lose at that point.

Not to mention that if my theory of what happened with Adam and Ben is true, he probably told Ben he'd just tell the police that Ben murdered Adam to try and take his life. You'd think it'd be hard to believe anything the kidnapping, child abusing asshole says but well, let's face, Ben HAS been pretending to be Adam. So the police may very well believe that part. 

Btw, speaking of the FBI agent guy, I know his predicament sucks right now but this is really not the best time to fall off the wagon. 

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I still don't really get why Hank's birdhouse is evidence that Pocky did anything. Proof that he'd been at Hank's house before, but that doesn't seem like concrete evidence of anything. Maybe I'm missing something.

That's what I said last week. Yes, it is suspicious and certainly makes Doug look like more of a person of interest but at the same time that stuff can easily be explained as - he was there fixing the cabinets because it is what he does and the whole reason he was at the park that day (so he says) was to sell his shelves and stuff, aligning with the reason he was at Hank's house. The only way Doug is suspicious is when you connect that his girlfriend at the time, which is still his girlfriend today, is the woman who works at the plant where they have information on all the abandoned bunkers out in the woods. 

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Even this flimsy piece of evidence is still more than anything the agents have done throughout this investigation.

Well not really. The FBI agent put it all together (so yeah Nina is still useless), which is why he's currently chained to some wall.

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I've probably forgotten a prior scene, but how did Nina know Adam is not Adam? 

She followed him a few nights and saw he was repeatedly going to this same house. She found out the house is a foster home. She also noticed that he was using his left hand the whole time he was on the bus every night but Adam is/was right handed. She also found a picture of a boy at the home that looked like how Ben could have looked at that age and when she questioned the foster parent, he admitted that Ben just vanished one day and he never did any follow ups or reported it. 

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Doug found him in his new "safe" family home. So when Doug tells him to meet him or he'll come back and take him or hurt his new family, Ben does what he's told. 

The actor was brilliant in how subtle it was, but I thought it was clear Ben was terrified on that bench next to Doug.

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She kills the man in the hotel room in cold blood (no remorse/not wrong). 

I'm still wondering what the point of that completely pointless plot was. 

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Ben mentioned the name Ben and foster homes in therapy. 

I don't think Ben ever said anything about foster homes in therapy because that would be way too much of a slip. I think Nina got suspicious when he made the 'we' slip, as in, "we had class in the morning". She then immediately started suspecting there might have been two boys kidnapped.

Edited May 3, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Suzywriter]

On 5/2/2016 at 10:50 PM, Madding crowd said:

I would hope the FBI agent can still find a way to escape, even without the keys. I would think Jane and the baby would need some medical attention too. Women do give birth at home, but usually with a midwife who can make sure the placenta delivers etc. I did wonder how Doug can afford a house and this big cabin. I can't figure out what type of information he is getting from Ben, or why Ben is agreeing to meet with him. Then he takes the keys away but turns himself in. Is he supposed to be protecting Jane? Even if he admits to killing the FBI agent, Jane is on the premises. 

I really hope that Ben was not involved in killing Adam. The show is doing one of those things where someone starts to explain something, than gets all cryptic and shuts down. I can't imagine Willa not demanding immediate answers. Still don't know why Bridey is on this show.

Women can survive birth without medical intervention. In my grandparents town in rural Virginia, women routinely gave birth with just their mother or sisters to help with clean up and to look after the older children. I am more worried about the agent with the fractured skull.

[Guest]

At the beginning of ep 9 Ben tells the therapist his imaginary friend Ben didn't have a family, he was moved around a lot.  She says, "Like in foster homes?"  He says, "Yeah".  Nina writes down BEN and FOSTER HOME on her notepad.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Guest

[ari333]

If I were Ben/Adam , I wouldn't sit that close to Pocky if he had chloroformed me previously

[Bobbin]

I'm guessing (and praying) that no one here has experienced the death of a child. I can tell you with authority that it rarely results in rational thinking or behavior, and that although there are many similarities and patterns, each individual's reaction is unique. They cope however they can. And each heals in his or her own good time. It's not uncommon for parents to neglect their surviving children, unintentionally; some children call them on it, some don't. Some marriages and families grow stronger, some fall apart. The Warrens aren't especially atypical.

As for the birdhouse, I think it is significant not just that Doug was in the park, but that he was absent from his booth when Hank bought it -- during the time Adam was taken.

A belated thought: when Hank was badgered into "confessing," didn't anyone ask what he did with Adam or at least his body? Any parent would be desperate to know. The Warrens simply went back to sleep, then later held a "burial" service. ???

Edited May 3, 2016 by Bobbin

[backformore]

Quote

I'm sorry, I get that having a grieving mother who was just sleeping her days away and a drunk, cheating father sucked but teenage Danny was an asshole. And frankly when he told Claire that she had two other children when she reminded him her child died, I wanted her to say, "one of them is you, big whoop..." Being an asshole at a public event for Adam in front of so many people was just incredibly self-absorbed and selfish, asshole or not. And frankly every other flashback shown makes it appear like he never seemed to give a shit that Adam went missing and ultimately died. And then he became even more of a cliche by becoming a drunk who that seems to be his only purpose now. 

Yeah, but he was a teenager, and teenagers often act like assholes - and then grow out of it.   I assume he was resentful at having to keep an eye on his brother, felt guilty about losing track of him, and his parents pretty much neglected his emotional well-being.  Teenaged boys who are depressed or mourning often act out in anger.  HIs parents were too wrapped up in their own stuff, they ignored what was happening to their two older kids.  Which, I think is the main point of the show -  how Adam's kidnapping destroyed all their lives, and how his "returning"  just made it worse.

[truthaboutluv]

I've never been one to buy into the "well he/she is a teenager" excuse. Yes, teenage angst is a thing but I think people at their core are also who they are. Like I said, maybe I'd feel more sympathetic and understanding if every flashback didn't show teenage Danny to be a little shit, IMO. Again, it might have helped if there was at least one flashback showing him truly broken up and upset about Adam's disappearance/"murder".

Instead all we've seen is that he neglected watching Adam to go tongue the future annoying lesbian blogger, when Willa came up to him in a panic that she hadn't seen Adam for over thirty minutes, he pretty much brushed her off and when they finally realized Adam really was missing and the police was at the house to ask questions, he was defensive and more concerned with making himself not look completely negligent in watching his younger brother.

And that's been it. And then he became a drunk which I think is supposed to be the show's way of showing that he was torn up about it but frankly this episode made it seem like he became a drunk more because he was bitter and resentful that his parents weren't showering him with enough attention after Adam's death. Nutty though Willa has been shown to be since she was a child, we at least saw her concern and this was even before Adam disappeared, when she saw him coming out of Hank's house in the morning and was the one to point out to her parents that it was suspicious that Adam missed the bus twice when the damn stop was right outside the front gate.

Edited May 3, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[iMonrey]

Quote

I continue to want Bridey killed

Hmm. You know - she may well be, as well as Nina and probably Agent Clements. If this show has any hope of continuing past this one season, they will have to find a way to silence both Nina and Bridey because they both know Adam is really Ben. Once that secret is exposed the story is pretty much over. I can easily see Doug or even Ben himself offing both of them just to keep them quiet about their suspicions/accusations. (And frankly I won't mourn either one of them.)

[truthaboutluv]

They have suspicions right now, they haven't been able to prove it. And I still think the cliffhanger the show might end on, whether or not it gets picked up for another season, is Adam being alive. We might see Doug get off and the last scene is him going to wherever he's holding Adam, which leads to another season of that whole backstory and everyone else still trying to prove that Ben isn't Adam, etc. 

Btw, speaking of Doug, I think the police sketch and ultimately figuring out it is him, further proves to me that Ben didn't deliberately murder Adam to take over his life and isn't in cahoots with Doug. Because the police wouldn't have been any nearer to catching Doug if Ben hadn't given a near perfect description of where he was being held. Yes, he used fanciful expressions like seeing a dragon and all that but it didn't take Nina long to put together what he was talking about. And then the physical description of Doug that allowed the the police to create a near excellent composite.

Those actions just don't add up to someone who cold-bloodily killed someone to take over their life because Ben had to realize that Doug could ID him. Sure, he could have told himself what he said this episode, that Doug would not want to admit he kidnapped two boys and especially that one died. But that's still a huge risk when he could have just been vague or misleading about Doug's physical description, while still revealing where he'd been held. 

[Bobbin]

As boyish as he appears, 18 (now 19) year old Ben walked or ran away from the bunker and eventually into town. It's not like he was blindfolded or unconscious like he probably was when he was brought there. Wouldn't he have been able to tell the police how to get to the bunker without all the vague clues about shapes in the sky?

[backformore]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

I've never been one to buy into the "well he/she is a teenager" excuse. Yes, teenage angst is a thing but I think people at their core are also who they are. Like I said, maybe I'd feel more sympathetic and understanding if every flashback didn't show teenage Danny to be a little shit, IMO. Again, it might have helped if there was at least one flashback showing him truly broken up and upset about Adam's disappearance/"murder".

Instead all we've seen is that he neglected watching Adam to go tongue the future annoying lesbian blogger, when Willa came up to him in a panic that she hadn't seen Adam for over thirty minutes, he pretty much brushed her off and when they finally realized Adam really was missing and the police was at the house to ask questions, he was defensive and more concerned with making himself not look completely negligent in watching his younger brother.

And that's been it. And then he became a drunk which I think is supposed to be the show's way of showing that he was torn up about it but frankly this episode made it seem like he became a drunk more because he was bitter and resentful that his parents weren't showering him with enough attention after Adam's death. Nutty though Willa has been shown to be since she was a child, we at least saw her concern and this was even before Adam disappeared, when she saw him coming out of Hank's house in the morning and was the one to point out to her parents that it was suspicious that Adam missed the bus twice when the damn stop was right outside the front gate.

I wasn't saying he should be excused for his behavior - just that teenaged boys show their grief and depression and guilt in different ways than adults do.  He acted out in anger, instead of taking to his bed and crying.   He probably blamed himself for Adam getting taken, but was also resentful that he was expected to watch him in the first place.  He was making out with a girl - that's not necessarily a bad thing.  It took him a while to realize that Adam hadn't just wandered away, but could be in real danger.  Yeah, teenagers don't understand risks the same way adults do.  
 His telling his mom that she still has two children was him calling out for her to help him, to pay attention to him.  His parents were wrapped up in their own grief and guilt, they needed to tend to how their kids were handling things.  One kid starts drinking and being angry, the other turns into a control freak.  I guess I sympathize with him, it seems like he was expected to just suck it up and handle it, and he couldn't.   He was clearly traumatized by his brother being gone, and then his parents ignoring him afterwards. 

I think he is going to figure into the story more as time goes on, just because he seems like a complicated character.  

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, Bobbin said:

As boyish as he appears, 18 (now 19) year old Ben walked or ran away from the bunker and eventually into town. It's not like he was blindfolded or unconscious like he probably was when he was brought there. Wouldn't he have been able to tell the police how to get to the bunker without all the vague clues about shapes in the sky?

Didn't they say he was in shock when he escaped? He might not remember, and the bunker was in the middle of the woods. I think they knew where he'd first gotten to civilization, but I don't think he was capable of saying more than that at the time. Since then he's become more normal with talking about what happened.

[izabella]

Was Ben in shock when he met Willa?  He seemed ok then. 

I've been saying that he has seemed "too normal" to me, seemingly very calm and matter of fact about his ordeal and escape, and entirely blase about suddenly appearing in the real world 10-12 years after he left it as a child to live in a hole.  Maybe he's still in shock, or dissociated or something.  I am just not buying how easily he has been blending in like he never left (not so much into the family, but hanging out in the mall, taking buses, the easy way he talks to strangers, everything). 

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, Bobbin said:

when Hank was badgered into "confessing," didn't anyone ask what he did with Adam or at least his body? Any parent would be desperate to know. The Warrens simply went back to sleep, then later held a "burial" service. ???

Claire asked when she went to visit Hank in prison, soon after his conviction. She begged him to tell her where Adam's body was and he replied, "I'm sorry, I can't help you." After that the Warrens buried an empty coffin, and Claire arranged to have Hank shivved.

[KaveDweller]

54 minutes ago, izabella said:

Was Ben in shock when he met Willa?  He seemed ok then. 

I've been saying that he has seemed "too normal" to me, seemingly very calm and matter of fact about his ordeal and escape, and entirely blase about suddenly appearing in the real world 10-12 years after he left it as a child to live in a hole.  Maybe he's still in shock, or dissociated or something.  I am just not buying how easily he has been blending in like he never left (not so much into the family, but hanging out in the mall, taking buses, the easy way he talks to strangers, everything). 

He did seem okay then, yes. He seemed in shock in the pilot, but I forgot that doesn't make sense now that we saw him meeting Willa first. 

It would make sense for Ben to be acting like more of a kid. He was locked up at age 8 and never was out in the real world, he wouldn't have matured the same way others would. I don't think an 8-year-old would be comfortable taking the bus places by himself or going out in the middle of the night. But maybe I'm just sheltered and foster kid Ben did those things as a kid.