S03.E17: The Team

[mac123x]

 

If I am following the theology right Mr Giyera and now Daisy are Hive, not just the Ward body.

 

I don't think that's the case, since Mr Giyera has frequent conversations with SquidWard.  If he was actually an extension of Hive, SquidWard would already know the things Giyera tells him, so the dialog would be "As You Already Know" exposition for the audience.

 

 

 

All that being said, I think evil, corrupted Daisy will be a great change for the show, considering all the bad guys lately have been men.  It also creates the problem of how to defeat Hydra without harming Daisy.  They don't hate her the way they hated Ward after he turned.  They are going to want to get Daisy back and at what cost?  I think it's a smart storytelling move.  I am thoroughly intrigued with where this story goes now.

 

I'm guessing that the DeInhumanizing serum from will come into play.  It was an area of contention between Lincoln and Daisy for an episode, but seems to have dropped out of the narrative.  I expect it will come back as a way to either disable Hive or de-infect the other Inhumans.

 

 

 

But, for me, the Get Daisy Back campaign isn't that intriguing? :( I wish it were intriguing to me. I'm almost sad- I really wanted M:AoS to share in the Civil War and be affected by it. Now, it looks like the season will end with Inhumans Vs Humans and SHIELD Vs Ward... again. :(

 

I'm not that interested in it either, plus we'll get the inevitable Daisy-has-PTSD angst in season 4.  That can make for interesting drama, but I've seen it enough on other shows that I find it dull.

 

Two episodes before CA:CW comes out, then two afterwards including the 2 hour finale -- I'm guessing the show's ties to the movie are going to be pretty cursory, like the tie in to Avengers 2.  "What has Coulson been doing secretively for the last 6 months, flying all over the world, meeting with people?  Oh, prepping the helicarrier for the rescue scene.  Okay. Aaaaanyway, back to our plot..."

 

ETA:

 

What exactly is the Kree egg that Daisy stole?  Weapon for Hive to use, or weapon to use against Hive?

Edited April 20, 2016 by mac123x

[missbonnie]

Whose cross is it?

I spotted it around YoYo's neck when she was walking down the hall of the base with Mack.

Not if it's in a movie.

Bahaha! So true.

[Absurda]

I will say that this twist kept me guessing to the end and was executed well so I give that to the show.  But, I think if they wanted this story line to continue, they really did have to go with Daisy.  If it had been Yo-Yo or Joey SHIELD wouldn't really care, they'd give lipservice to saving them but in the end they'd just be a regular Ward minion that needed to be put down in order to defeat ward.  Lincoln might have warranted a half-assed rescue attempt but nothing near what SHIELD would be willing to do for Daisy.

 

What I'm really worried about is that we will see a full-scale Daisy-centric (I really don't care about this character) "save her at all possible costs while not harming a hair on her head" story line that shows SHIELD killing and mowing down umpteen other nameless inhumans who may or may not be under Hive's mind control.  Essentially, they act like Daisy is the only innocent in need of saving.  That would annoy the crap out of me.  If they go the route of "capture, don't kill, all inhumans working for Ward until we can disinfect everyone and sort out the innocent from not innocent" I might enjoy this story line more, but I doubt they will.

 

I do love the flirting between Yo-Yo and Mack so I hope she forgives him quickly so they can get back to it.

 

I also really liked FitzSimmons together.  They know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other it just seemed very natural for their characters.  Plus, Fitz teasing Simmons about his universe poster and her jumping on him was just really cute.  Anyone else think Simmons might be onto something with her question about dopamine levels?  Daisy certainly seemed blissed out and euphoric.

[foreverevolving]

I agree about FitzSimmons. When the show started I didn't really see it, I didn't want them to go there at all, so I am grateful that the show has been taking time to build them up. Going from friends to lovers is a scary thing, even when you know the other person feels the same way, there's the risk losing that person if the relationship doesn't work and with F/S they also work together so...

AOS is doing a far better job with the F/S endgame romance than Flash is with WestAllen or Arrow ever did with Laurel/Oliver (which was thankfully was put down at the beginning on Season 2 in favor of Olicity).

 

With that being said I hope the stalling for them is done, I think we're finally at the stage of: either it happens and evolves into an actual full on relationship or not. I don't think FitzSimmons can survive another round/year of will they/won't they- at least not with me.

 

 

I did not see the Daisy twist coming! I love this twist.

 

I disagree with whomever said this entire twist won't work well within the Civil War movie, I think tonight episode, and past episodes this season, provided a good prequel for what the movie is about: the fear of the powerful unknown and how to keep the hero's/super powered people in check.

Edited April 20, 2016 by foreverevolving

[TVSpectator]

Unlike Freeze-Ray-Eyes-Guy's zombie-like infection, Skye-Daisy seems to have a fair amount of free will with her infection. She seems like a convert who drank the kool-aide and not just a brainwashed minion. Hmmm...   Despite her turn to the dark side, I don't foresee it being permanent, just a source for future angst and guilt because "I did bad things." 

 

Fitz and Simmons being lovey-dovey? Again? How many times can they flip that switch from off to on before it loses it's appeal? It's just annoying now.

 

It looks as if AoS has attempted to steal some ideas from Game of Thrones, The 100, and JJ Abrams : everyone seems to have prominent scrapes, bruises and cuts on their faces ('cause they're hard-core fighters now). 

 

First, it would be different (for a comic book show) to have a good character actually become a bad character by not mind control and/or he/she being a double agent along. IMO, that would definitely add a different dynamic to the show but I feel that as soon as Simmons cooks up some kind of ant-SquidWard serum, Daisy will be fine and back on the team. 

 

As with the Fitz and Simmons scene, yeah it was predictable that they would hooked up (like what I have been trying to tell everyone here. It's going to happen because the writers planned it/wanted it to happen back in Season 1; IMO there was no intention of ever having these two not hook up. IMO, the writers probably just wanted to troll the shippers with the Will thing but with that scene, it felt like it was a longer replay of the one from Manny Heads, Same Tale. Simmons jumps on Fitz and Fitz goes on about the universe/the cosmos not wanting them together and Will-  then they stop (this time, the base literally fell on them). Which is stupid, but hey they just renewed for a Fourth Season so all shippers please be prepared for probably more angst to come. 

 

I noticed the scare thing too but to be fair the base scene probably happen not too long after being rescued (and I loved how May just jumped out of her gurney, changed her very vibrant green hospital gowns to street clothes, and was like to Coulson, "hey I will lead  the Daisy Fantastic Not Four Inhuman team to quarantine ".

 

And speaking of the human team members trying to quarantine the Inhuman members, why didn't they just very politely said, "hey Simmons and Fitz now believe that you guys might have been exposed to some kind of virus back in that uber secret Hydra base. They told us that for safety reasons we need to quarantine you guys till we can clear you all"? I know that they feel that they might have a mole but really they should've just played the quarantine straight and just told the group (individually) that they need to be quarantined. They could still lie to them but just say that they think that the chlorine gas was what they were worried about and that they all need to be medically evaluated. Plus, why wasn't Malick cell/room do not have guards posted at the front or cameras?

Edited April 21, 2016 by TVSpectator

[ChelseaNH]

So why didn't SquidWard hive Lincoln when he had the chance?  Did he think Lincoln was too boring to bother assimilating?

[thuganomics85]

Nice little twist, but I think I figured out it was Daisy once Mack found that artifact hidden in Lincoln's locker, and then I remember they had the entire scene where you see him and Daisy storing it earlier, so I figured that it was her, and the whole scene before was showing that she was going to use all that to set it up.  Either way, it was still the best approach to this.  As much as I like Joey and Yo-Yo, they are still secondary characters, and them being turned wouldn't have been as impactful.  As for Lincoln, even if I fully liked him, all those times we saw him impulsive and hostile with Coulson and SHIELD, made him too obvious and would have probably been disappointing.  But Daisy?  Coulson's favorite, Melinda's protege, Mack's buddy, and general someone the entire team loves and puts their trust in?  Yeah, that's going to be a game changer.  Even if she's being controlled and will snap out of it, I'm sure this is going to really damage the team going forward.

 

Oh, and this probably means we're going to get some creepy interactions between her and SquidWard, so that should be "fun."  I noticed SquidWard referred to her as Skye still, which was an interesting touch.

 

So, Gideon did see his own death, only it was at Daisy's hands, instead of SquidWard?  At least he gets to see his daughter again, assuming there is an afterlife and both are heading in the same direction.  Will miss Powers Boothe, but it was probably time.  SquidWard has clearly taken the mantle for the endgame baddie, and Giyera is serving as his henchman and with respect to Boothe's chops, it's probably likely that Marc Dacascos' fighting skills will be needed more for the showdown.

 

Enjoyed Mack and Yo-Yo, and hope they can find some way to move past it, although it's going to be hard, I suspect.

 

Fitz and Simmons finally decide to make a good for it.  I just hope this doesn't mean one of them is destined for a tragic end.  Don't turn into your brother, Jed!

 

That said, was no one watching the security monitors or even guarding the doors, during the final minutes?  SHIELD agents are kind of lazy.

[ae2]

So why didn't SquidWard hive Lincoln when he had the chance?  Did he think Lincoln was too boring to bother assimilating?

Good question. I see a few possibilities.

 

1. He did, and Lincoln isn't "activated" yet (not likely)

2. He wanted to use it on a more valuable target.

3. He was saving it specifically for Skye.

4. He didn't have time.

5. Jiaying was able to create some sort of immunity, so anyone from her community can't be Hived.

[KirkB]

If any part of Ward is in Hive then he is almost certainly obsessed with Daisy on some level.

[OakGoblinFly]

So let me get this straight ABC Studios; you’ve been promoting “Secret Warriors” for weeks and this is what you come up with?  Four whole members; none of which are all that secret?  Not only that, they manage to take out an entire Hydra/Hive team in less than five minutes (though I suppose one could fanwank that Hive-Ward allowed the “warriors” to “win” so he could put the hex on Daisy).

 

If Hive-Ward has been collecting Inhumans via Malick, why aren’t there more than two Inhumans protecting his base? 

 

Hands up if you were surprised at the “twist” of Daisy being the one who turns “traitor” – yeah, I thought so.  That twist wasn’t much of a twist; it was telegraphed pretty early on that she was the one who was mind-whamyed.  Perhaps the writers were looking to parallel the “Ward is Hydra” storyline from season one with “Daisy has been assimilated into the Borg Collective, erm, Hive” - so very predictable and rather lazy writing.

 

So, based on Hive-Ward’s comment that they “have to find Skye” and her “wanting” to run away with Lincoln, are we to believe that she’s returned to Special Snowflake Status and that she alone has the power to exert her own will and fight the mind control?  We’re going to be subjected to more “we have to save Skye, I mean Daisy” again, aren’t we?

 

How many IQ points did Coulson lose this week?  You learn (albeit from a questionable source) that one of the Inhumans is infected and you lockdown the base, spy on the four Inhumans, take an armed group to “detain” them, and don’t bother to explain why?  You have potential infection on your hands, why wouldn’t you tell the people that they’ve been exposed?  Sure, they might freak out a bit; it has to be better than treating everyone like a criminal.

 

Where are the security personnel at SHIELD HQ?  And for that matter, why aren’t the security cameras running – we know that Mack used some of the surveillance to spy on the Inhumans, was no one else watching when Daisy sabotaged the system?  If Daisy did indeed hack into the system to disable the cameras, why didn’t anyone notice?  Also, why didn’t anyone question why the power simply went out?  If the cause was Lincoln, wouldn’t there be physical signs of him zapping a junction box?

 

There was just too much stupid going around this episode.

 

Thank goodness for Mack and all the Fitz-Simmons interactions – they were the only redeeming part of this episode.

 

<sotto voice> I like Hive-Ward’s jacket; Brett Dalton works the hell out of it.</sotto voice>

Edited April 21, 2016 by OakGoblinFly

[DeLurker]

Awwww...YoYo was practicing her English and Mack was practicing his Spanish...

 

Whenever I see Joey from a distance, I think he is Ward.  And when Joey disappeared for a bit, I was thinking he found a hook up on board.

 

At first I was thinking terror-eyes guy had infected Lincoln when he stoned him.

 

Daisy was doing some good cult crazy eyes when talking to Lincoln in Quarantine. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Agents Of SHIELD Assembles The Secret Warriors
It's Daisy's first time leading an Inhuman strike force! It goes about as well as you'd expect.

[rab01]

So let me get this straight ABC Studios; you’ve been promoting “Secret Warriors” for weeks and this is what you come up with?  Four whole members; none of which are all that secret?  Not only that, they manage to take out an entire Hydra/Hive team in less than five minutes (though I suppose one could fanwank that Hive-Ward allowed the “warriors” to “win” so he could put the hex on Daisy).

 

If Hive-Ward has been collecting Inhumans via Malick, why aren’t there more than two Inhumans protecting his base? 

 

Hands up if you were surprised at the “twist” of Daisy being the one who turns “traitor” – yeah, I thought so.  That twist wasn’t much of a twist; it was telegraphed pretty early on that she was the one who was mind-whamyed.  Perhaps the writers were looking to parallel the “Ward is Hydra” storyline from season one with “Daisy has been assimilated into the Borg Collective, erm, Hive” - so very predictable and rather lazy writing.

 

So, based on Hive-Ward’s comment that they “have to find Skye” and her “wanting” to run away with Lincoln, are we to believe that she’s returned to Special Snowflake Status and that she alone has the power to exert her own will and fight the mind control?  We’re going to be subjected to more “we have to save Skye, I mean Daisy” again, aren’t we?

 

How many IQ points did Coulson lose this week?  You learn (albeit from a questionable source) that one of the Inhumans is infected and you lockdown the base, spy on the four Inhumans, take an armed group to “detain” them, and don’t bother to explain why?  You have potential infection on your hands, why wouldn’t you tell the people that they’ve been exposed?  Sure, they might freak out a bit; it has to be better than treating everyone like a criminal.

 

Where are the security personnel at SHIELD HQ?  And for that matter, why aren’t the security cameras running – we know that Mack used some of the surveillance to spy on the Inhumans, was no one else watching when Daisy sabotaged the system?  If Daisy did indeed hack into the system to disable the cameras, why didn’t anyone notice?  Also, why didn’t anyone question why the power simply went out?  If the cause was Lincoln, wouldn’t there be physical signs of him zapping a junction box?

 

There was just too much stupid going around this episode.

 

Thank goodness for Mack and all the Fitz-Simmons interactions – they were the only redeeming part of this episode.

 

<sotto voice> I like Hive-Ward’s jacket; Brett Dalton works the hell out of it.</sotto voice>

It's not too hard to believe that Daisy replaced the real-time footage for the cameras with loops of normal footage instead. She's been on the base forever so it's safe to say she knows the system inside and out. I'd prefer if they had actual eyes on the prisoners after last week *shrug* but who can tell shield's manpower constraints?

Hive seems to brainwash inhumans, rather than take full mind-control over them so Daisy and Guyera both have some independence of thought. I bet we'll find out the plot-convenient limits of that independence in a few episodes.

I can sort of see what people like about this episode but there's something about it that just isn't grabbing me. I may be out on this show soon. I think part of the problem si that they kill off the wrong characters - everyone who's left the show has been more entertaining than the people who stayed on instead.

[OakGoblinFly]

It's not too hard to believe that Daisy replaced the real-time footage for the cameras with loops of normal footage instead. She's been on the base forever so it's safe to say she knows the system inside and out. I'd prefer if they had actual eyes on the prisoners after last week *shrug* but who can tell shield's manpower constraints?

Hive seems to brainwash inhumans, rather than take full mind-control over them so Daisy and Guyera both have some independence of thought. I bet we'll find out the plot-convenient limits of that independence in a few episodes.

I can sort of see what people like about this episode but there's something about it that just isn't grabbing me. I may be out on this show soon. I think part of the problem si that they kill off the wrong characters - everyone who's left the show has been more entertaining than the people who stayed on instead.

 

 

Oh, I agree that Daisy might have switched the video feeds (which still begs the question, who was watching/guarding her) - I can forgive one stupid mistake/plot oversight ..... it just seems that stupidity has become a major plot device and it is annoying.

I don’t think I would have minded Daisy’s “betrayal” if she did so of her own free will (which is why Ward’s betrayal worked for me) – but for her to be mind-whamyed into betraying SHIELD is (in my opinion) rather lazy writing and makes it all to convenient for her actions to be excused away (she didn’t mean it – she was under the influence of a mind hex).

 

And I agree with you, most of the interesting characters are gone or have greatly reduced roles.

[kitlee625]

I don’t think I would have minded Daisy’s “betrayal” if she did so of her own free will (which is why Ward’s betrayal worked for me) – but for her to be mind-whamyed into betraying SHIELD is (in my opinion) rather lazy writing and makes it all to convenient for her actions to be excused away (she didn’t mean it – she was under the influence of a mind hex).

 

Absolutely! At the moment I liked it because I was like "wow, I was sure they would throw away one of the newbies instead," but in retrospect, it definitely lacks real impact because it's completely hand waved away due to "evil spores" and allows the writers to hit the reset button too quickly. I think we all know where the writers are going to go from here, and although I'm hoping for some twists and turns along the way, I'm doubtful they'll do anything memorable. I think the writers want it both ways. They want Daisy to remain their Special-est Snowflake who Ever Snowflaked and to have an betrayal plot. Too bad they can't commit to doing something really interesting.

[Jeezaloo]

There was definite joy behind Daisy's eyes which I think were Chloe Bennett's delight in being able to explore a new part of her character.

Yeah, who knew the show was keeping Chloe Bennett on such a short leash acting-wise? The minute her face lit up I thought, "Oh look! She has an emotional third dimension all of a sudden!"

[ohjoy]

I got caught up on the last few episodes last night, so I just had to bring this over:

 

[snip] why didn't Malick just knock her out and take her with him? SquidWard could have thrown some fairy dust at her and made her his willing accomplice. Why not do that?

 

 

Now I really wish that that had happened, if only because it would actually make the show mix things up.

 

Whadduya know -- good guess! It amuses me that these complaints from the episode about the inevitability of the future turned out to be the predictions of a future episode.

Edited April 21, 2016 by RandomMe

[Lady Calypso]

Absolutely! At the moment I liked it because I was like "wow, I was sure they would throw away one of the newbies instead," but in retrospect, it definitely lacks real impact because it's completely hand waved away due to "evil spores" and allows the writers to hit the reset button too quickly. I think we all know where the writers are going to go from here, and although I'm hoping for some twists and turns along the way, I'm doubtful they'll do anything memorable. I think the writers want it both ways. They want Daisy to remain their Special-est Snowflake who Ever Snowflaked and to have an betrayal plot. Too bad they can't commit to doing something really interesting.

 

I can see where you're coming from, even if I don't necessarily agree. I definitely think the writers wanted to do something shocking like season 1, and what way than to have a team member turn? But unlike what they did with Ward, I can see why they would have Daisy's situation be more flexible. She's going to get cured, that much is certain. She'll do bad things and then she'll be fine for next season. But I do think their main goal was to deal with real emotional repercussions. This is going to shatter the team's trust. Daisy has already caused enough damage with bringing down the base on her own team members. She's going to continue causing destruction. And honestly? I'm interested in this. I don't mind that it's Daisy. She would be the only logical person. Yoyo and Joey would be too easy, and Lincoln is too predictable, and only Daisy really cares. 

 

It's also going to be different than Ward because she is not choosing to do this. There is coming back from this, something that Ward never got the moment they revealed that he was not being brainwashed by Garrett. I guess I don't consider Daisy a 'Special Snowflake' anymore. I really have grown to love her as a character. It's easy to see the plot in itself a cliche, and it kind of is. But it works with what we know about Daisy's place on the team. Plus, it would have been worse if she had chosen to join Hive on her own free will. It wouldn't have made much sense to her character. At least with Ward, it happened in season 1 and he was introduced as a new member to the team. It gave them room to fit into his characterization. But with Daisy? 

 

Plus, we already saw her temporarily betray SHIELD by choosing Afterlife and Jiaying. 

 

Basically, I think they made the right move with the story they wanted to tell. If it had to be an Inhuman, it makes the most sense for it to be Daisy. We'll be able to see multiple characters affected (Coulson, Lincoln, and Mack for starters). 

 

But I do agree that I think they just really wanted to have a betrayal plot....and I want to add that I think that they wanted Brett Dalton to be able to interact with the main cast in some way again, but probably with Chloe Bennet the most. So, if anything, I'd say Brett is the Special Snowflake since they fought hard to keep the actor on the show and involved. 

[Tim Thomason]

While I love the Daisy twist, I was actually really enjoying the whole "Monsters on Maple Street" vibe to the episode. A part of me really wanted to find out that the old base just had faulty wiring and Malick was messing with Coulson and didn't know if there would be a traitor or not.

 

And my working assumption is that Ward's consciousness in Hive will come to the fore and continue his obsession with Daisy, and perhaps even Daisy's disgust with Ward will break her somewhat free of the control. But I would like it much more if Hive just completely ignores that part of him and treats Daisy the same way he treated Lucario. Barely ever speak with her and sends her on missions until she gets captured or whatever.

 

Early on, they showed Hive and Giyera talking about how they "now had someone on the inside". And when Coulson accused Lincoln, he pointed out that he would have to have been undercover for several episodes now. So that was a good clue right there (for the audience) that Lincoln wasn't the inside man, since Hive wouldn't have qualified his statement as something that happened "now." My wrong assumption at the time was that it was Malick, either infected with spores somehow, or having already agreed to a sob story about his dead daughter to use to gain sympathy for an episode or two before turning the tables when everyone had their back turned.

 

I liked Fitz's belief that there must be something in the cosmos not wanting to attack humanity. He might not believe me if I tell him about the talking raccoon and the tree people.

[kitlee625]

So I'm not actually convinced that there will be repercussions after Daisy is cured of Hive's spores, in part because of how they handled Jiaying and Afterlife last season. Season 2b brought up legitimate conflicts between Coulson and Daisy on the handling of Inhumans. She didn't want to be locked up alone in the woods, which he felt was necessary. He wanted to Index everyone at Afterlife while she wanted them to be able to govern themselves and have some privacy. However, instead of addressing those issues, by the end of the season, she not only wants SHIELD to Index Inhumans but also wants them all to become SHIELD agents and has decided that SHIELD is the only place where they can learn to control their powers. And no one cares that she did fight against them on Jiaying's side for a while. So, while I would like for them to deal with trust issues, the writers haven't done much of that in the past with her.

Edited April 22, 2016 by kitlee625

[RustbeltWriter]

My DVR cut off the scene after the final commercial. All I saw was a pair of legs. Can someone tell me what happened?

[Bishop]

So why didn't SquidWard hive Lincoln when he had the chance?  

By having Ward's memories, I'm guessing it's simply because he wanted Skye to be his mole inside SHIELD.  I mean the same argument can be made as to why Hive hasn't snatched up all of SHEILD's inhumans for a while now.

I don’t think I would have minded Daisy’s “betrayal” if she did so of her own free will (which is why Ward’s betrayal worked for me) – but for her to be mind-whamyed into betraying SHIELD is (in my opinion) rather lazy writing and makes it all to convenient for her actions to be excused away (she didn’t mean it – she was under the influence of a mind hex).

Yeah, but then she would be just like Ward who became a traitor of his own free will, and how many of those do we need?  We already had one big-bad from SHIELD, and so to have two would be redundant.  I agree that it's a bit lazy in the writing because when Daisy is "cured," everyone will blame the brainwashing.  It might be more interesting if there are moments throughout her time with HIVE where she willingly does some things or someone realizes that she wasn't at all times completely under HIVE's control - just to make it interesting.

[rab01]

So I'm not actually convinced that there will be repercussions after Daisy is cured of Hive's spores, in part because of how they handled Jiaying and Afterlife last season. Season 2b brought up legitimate conflicts between Coulson and Daisy on the handling of Inhumans. She didn't want to be locked up alone in the woods, which he felt was necessary. He wanted to Index everyone at Afterlife while she wanted them to be able to govern themselves and have some privacy. However, instead of addressing those issues, by the end of the season, she not only wants SHIELD to Index Inhumans but also wants them all to become SHIELD agents and has decided that SHIELD is the only place where they can learn to control their powers. And no one cares that she did fight against them on Jiaying's side for a while. So, while I would like for them to deal with trust issues, the writers haven't done much of that in the past with her.

Hey if we're going to dredge up the past, I'm still pissed that Coulson got to be right about Afterlife. I hated that Jiaying actually plotted a fake assault on her life just to create a war with shield. Until that moment, Afterlife was in the right and shield was being fascist about trying to require everyone to register on their database after they'd proved to the world how often and long shield had been secretly serving hydra. But then the show managed to find a way to put shield/coulson into the right again. ...

 

Oh shit, I shouldn't think about stuff like this - it's a superhero show and we're watching the good guys so even if it looks like they are being immoral, it has to turn out the other way in the end. I shouldn't get twisted when the writers room isn't subtle about the pretzels they contort the characters into. I should turn off my brain and enjoy the special effects, fight scenes, and shipping FitzSimmons.

[Chyromaniac]

New Rule:

Any time a spy or mole is referred to as an "Inside Man," that character will eventually be revealed as a woman.

[HistoryGirl]

That said, was no one watching the security monitors or even guarding the doors, during the final minutes?  SHIELD agents are kind of lazy.

Part of the problem was the Daisy had cut the power/feeds.  Fitz and Simmons were on their way to restore the power when they stumbled upon Malick's open door. Fitz had made a comment that there were back up generators or something. So presumably, Daisy cut everything on the base. She certainly had the know how. Additionally, she also is a power-figure on the base. If she told the guards that Coulson wanted them elsewhere, they'd have believed her. 

 

So why didn't SquidWard hive Lincoln when he had the chance?  Did he think Lincoln was too boring to bother assimilating?

I think this is a question that we've yet to receive the answer to.  Keep in mind that Lincoln's been talking about how each Inhuman serves a purpose and they're destined for something, etc. etc. So maybe Hive didn't want Lincoln for his endgame?  And Hive specifically said that he doesn't kill/eat Inhumans.  Or maybe Hive's goal was to get Daisy, and not Lincoln? 

 

So, based on Hive-Ward’s comment that they “have to find Skye” and her “wanting” to run away with Lincoln, are we to believe that she’s returned to Special Snowflake Status and that she alone has the power to exert her own will and fight the mind control?  We’re going to be subjected to more “we have to save Skye, I mean Daisy” again, aren’t we?

Remember, Ward never knew Skye as Daisy.  She changed her name after the S2 finale, at which point she never had contact with him. So Ward would know her as Skye and thus so would Hive, who retains the memories of his hosts. 

 

I feel like all of the dots are starting to be connected and I really think that FitzSimmons are the key to this all.  It can't have been just a coincidence that Fitz said "what is Hive, he couldn't even get off a deserted planet without us."  Which is very true. Both were able to do what hundreds of years of Hydra never could, in months. I also don't think we've seen the last of Jemma's adventures on the planet. Jemma was in striking distance of Hive for months and yet he never "deboned" her to gain strength? I have the same questions about Will too.  

Edited April 23, 2016 by HistoryGirl

[TVSpectator]

I feel like all of the dots are starting to be connected and I really think that FitzSimmons are the key to this all.  It can't have been just a coincidence that Fitz said "what is Hive, he couldn't even get off a deserted planet without us."  Which is very true. Both were able to do what hundreds of years of Hydra never could, in months. I also don't think we've seen the last of Jemma's adventures on the planet. Jemma was in striking distance of Hive for months and yet he never "deboned" her to gain strength? I have the same questions about Will too.  

 

Yeah, the ending and the solution to get Daisy "de-Hived" will probably come from Fitz and Simmons (and the next episode is supposed to be them doing exactly that). As with why IT never bothered to go after Simmons and Will, while they were on the planet; I always thought that Will was good enough at hiding (remember he literally lived in an underground cave/cavern(s) for freaking years) and that IT never realized that Simmons was on the planet till much later (after she meet Will and had an underground hiding place to go to). Plus, Will  mentioned something of an area that is "off limits" because of that thing (he called it something like, a "no-fly zone" or "no man's land" I honestly can't remember it but it was something with "no" in it). 

 

 

Also, IT did go after them once Simmons was being rescued and IT did end up killing Will and taking his body over. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by TVSpectator

[HistoryGirl]

Yeah, the ending and the solution to get Daisy "de-Hived" will probably come from Fitz and Simmons (and the next episode is supposed to be them doing exactly that). As with why IT never bothered to go after Simmons and Will, while they were on the planet; I always thought that Will was good enough at hiding (remember he literally lived in an underground cave/cavern(s) for freaking years) and that IT never realized that Simmons was on the planet till much later (after she meet Will and had an underground hiding place to go to). Plus, Will  mentioned something of an area that is "off limits" because of that thing (he called it something like, a "no-fly zone" or "no man's land" I honestly can't remember it but it was something with "no" in it). 

 

 

Also, IT did go after them once Simmons was being rescued and IT did end up killing Will and taking his body over. 

Yes, the No Fly Zone. But the No Fly Zone was where the Hydra head was that Fitz took a photo of when he was there.  Was it off limits because that's where Hive was, or was it off limits because Will-as-Hive didn't want Jemma to find it? 

 

And why didn't Hive kill Simmons in that moment?  It didn't take him very long to kill Stephanie or the Transia employees or those innocents? 

 

While I'm at it, I'm wondering if the damage to that guy's brain is permanent?  Does Simmons also have similar damage? Hmm. 

[ChelseaNH]

Part of the problem was the Daisy had cut the power/feeds.

 

Which no one saw her do, even though she was supposedly in isolation.

 

Or maybe Hive's goal was to get Daisy, and not Lincoln?

 

Hive collects Inhumans.  Also, recall that Lincoln's encounter was during the episode with the visions-of-death guy.

[TVSpectator]

Yes, the No Fly Zone. But the No Fly Zone was where the Hydra head was that Fitz took a photo of when he was there.  Was it off limits because that's where Hive was, or was it off limits because Will-as-Hive didn't want Jemma to find it? 

 

And why didn't Hive kill Simmons in that moment?  It didn't take him very long to kill Stephanie or the Transia employees or those innocents? 

 

While I'm at it, I'm wondering if the damage to that guy's brain is permanent?  Does Simmons also have similar damage? Hmm. 

 

Thanks for remembering  that it was called the No Fly Zone and the city (and the skull IT cave) was located deep within the Zone. Although, Will wasn't killed and IT-ified until Simmons left the planet (literally at the moment Fitz rescued her). So while he was alive he made a map and told Simmons don't go there because that was where IT lived and Simmons had to go there while she was staying with Will (and I guess that robed figure that she saw was IT all along. Although, wouldn't have been cool if it was Mistress Death or an Elders of the Universe (like the Grandmaster) instead?).  I have no idea why but maybe IT couldn't leave that zone for some reason? 

 

I don't know why IT didn't kill Simmons before she left. I think it was stated, in Maveth, that it was really Will who saved her from dying by literally distracting IT (and getting himself killed in the process) while she ran to Fitz. 

 

Yeah, I do think that Simmons has been acting really borderline crazy (like she is turning into some kind of mad scientist or something) since she  came back. Personally, I like to think she has turned into a milder/tamer version of a Captain Kirk, where her PSTD/survivor's guilt lead her so mad that she now literally the phrase YOLO's definition  (like to what some fans think happen to the original Captain Kirk in TOS) and is just  more happy at living life in the fast lane. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by TVSpectator

[teenj12]

 

So I'm not actually convinced that there will be repercussions after Daisy is cured of Hive's spores, in part because of how they handled Jiaying and Afterlife last season. Season 2b brought up legitimate conflicts between Coulson and Daisy on the handling of Inhumans. She didn't want to be locked up alone in the woods, which he felt was necessary. He wanted to Index everyone at Afterlife while she wanted them to be able to govern themselves and have some privacy. However, instead of addressing those issues, by the end of the season, she not only wants SHIELD to Index Inhumans but also wants them all to become SHIELD agents and has decided that SHIELD is the only place where they can learn to control their powers. And no one cares that she did fight against them on Jiaying's side for a while. So, while I would like for them to deal with trust issues, the writers haven't done much of that in the past with her.

...For all of what? Five seconds? Daisy believed SHIELD were attacking an innocent minority, and that they had been responsible for attempting to murder her mother. So yeah, she had a little scuffle with May. But that's the extent of it. After discovering her mother was evil, she actively fought against the inhumans (thanks to Mack freeing her), apologized to May (who understood that she'd been fooled by Jaiyang), and took down her mother (in the process, saving the world). There really were no trust issues to be dealt with.

Edited April 24, 2016 by teenj12

[kitlee625]

Hey if we're going to dredge up the past, I'm still pissed that Coulson got to be right about Afterlife. I hated that Jiaying actually plotted a fake assault on her life just to create a war with shield. Until that moment, Afterlife was in the right and shield was being fascist about trying to require everyone to register on their database after they'd proved to the world how often and long shield had been secretly serving hydra. But then the show managed to find a way to put shield/coulson into the right again. ...

 

Oh shit, I shouldn't think about stuff like this - it's a superhero show and we're watching the good guys so even if it looks like they are being immoral, it has to turn out the other way in the end. I shouldn't get twisted when the writers room isn't subtle about the pretzels they contort the characters into. I should turn off my brain and enjoy the special effects, fight scenes, and shipping FitzSimmons.

 

Yeah, I also find myself frustrated when I think too hard about the plots. I'm still mad about how they handled Afterlife. It's the same old trick they always pull: SHIELD may be shady but the other guys are more evil, hence SHIELD are always the Good Guys.

[TVSpectator]

Yeah, I also find myself frustrated when I think too hard about the plots. I'm still mad about how they handled Afterlife. It's the same old trick they always pull: SHIELD may be shady but the other guys are more evil, hence SHIELD are always the Good Guys.

Or they always turn out to be connected to Hydra. Although, they did try with Rosalind but she ended up being shot in the neck so I would say that their attempts are kind of half baked. That and this show has killed off a ridiculous amount of reoccurring characters, side characters, and one time characters. I am surprised that Power Boothe and  Mark Dacascos characters' have stayed alive up to this point.  

Edited April 24, 2016 by TVSpectator

[jhlipton]

 I am surprised that Power Boothe and  Mark Dacascos characters' have stayed alive up to this point.  

 

One out of two as of this episode!  Mark is probably not long for the series either (he should have been killed in any of the past three eps).

[TVSpectator]

One out of two as of this episode!  Mark is probably not long for the series either (he should have been killed in any of the past three eps).

 

Yeah, I really do think that Dacascos' character is probably going to be killed off before the finale. 

[kitlee625]

Yeah, I really do think that Dacascos' character is probably going to be killed off before the finale. 

 

On a related note, I did a little analysis of all the recurring characters on the show. With only a few exceptions, most recurring characters with multiple appearances are ultimately killed off (this is particularly true for the recurring characters with a >10 appearances). The show really doesn't like leaving recurring characters alive.

[TVSpectator]

On a related note, I did a little analysis of all the recurring characters on the show. With only a few exceptions, most recurring characters with multiple appearances are ultimately killed off (this is particularly true for the recurring characters with a >10 appearances). The show really doesn't like leaving recurring characters alive.

 

You know I feel like that by killing off as many none main characters  they are trying to make up for something.... Like what if they resurrected a popular character that died in one of the movies and made him a regular character and the writers/producers got some major flack for it in real life?

 

It's that or they just want to hammer in how dangerous everything is but leaving the main characters alive (well minus Tripp. Which is something I am still sad about). 

 

Edit:

The nerd side of me now wants to see all of your analysis. Maybe we can put the data into some kind of graph?

Edited April 25, 2016 by TVSpectator

[kitlee625]

So some of the analysis isn't compiled yet, and I actually want to wait until the end of season 3 to have a full set of data. I have some software that can analyze the survival rate versus number of appearances.

 

But the first part of my analysis is here: http://fangirlshenanigans.tumblr.com/post/134748294782/does-agents-of-shield-hate-women-and-people

 

I specifically wanted to look at how common death, torture, and kidnapping were in men vs women and white people vs people of color. The graph at the bottom has the rates of death by number of appearances.

[TVSpectator]

Thanks for sharing that. It looks interesting to see how everything just breaks down. My own "analysis" is me just watching and noticing things. For some reason, I was just counting how many characters have died, thus far but I never thought about how many were tortured, kidnap, and/or brandwash on the show. 

[Bec]

When they were talking about the Hive's whammy being some kind of infection like a virus... did anyone else think of Kilgrave on Jessica Jones? Maybe it doesn't mean anything, just writers borrowing ideas from each other. I like to think it's all somehow connected, though.

[jhlipton]

I specifically wanted to look at how common death, torture, and kidnapping were in men vs women and white people vs people of color. The graph at the bottom has the rates of death by number of appearances.

 

I'm not sure what topic to continue this under (it doesn't belong here,,,) so I replied in Small Talk.

Edited April 25, 2016 by jhlipton

[kitlee625]

When they were talking about the Hive's whammy being some kind of infection like a virus... did anyone else think of Kilgrave on Jessica Jones? Maybe it doesn't mean anything, just writers borrowing ideas from each other. I like to think it's all somehow connected, though.

It's definitely similar. If I remember correctly, Kilgrave's mind control abilities were via transmission of viral particles that infected people's brains. Now Hive has these parasitic spores that infect people's brains. FWIW, scientifically speaking, viral particles spread more widely and easily, but spores (whether bacterial, fungal) often times have a protective coating, which makes them difficult to eradicate.

[blueray]

Finally got to see this episode. I was glad that it wasn't Joey or the Spanish girl (what's her name?). But I was kind of disappointed when it was Daisy. As now we have to sit through her being evil. I always hate the "mind control" storylines. They get old really fast. But I guess it was either going to be her or Lincoln as they wanted a rescue attempt.

I did like the kiss between Simmons and Fitz :)

[Raja]

2 hours ago, blueray said:

Finally got to see this episode. I was glad that it wasn't Joey or the Spanish girl (what's her name?). But I was kind of disappointed when it was Daisy. As now we have to sit through her being evil. I always hate the "mind control" storylines. They get old really fast. But I guess it was either going to be her or Lincoln as they wanted a rescue attempt.

I did like the kiss between Simmons and Fitz :)

Elena Rodriguez, Yo-Yo if you are close and special in her heart.

[AKA...CJ86]

Finally caught up.  I thought it was kinda obvious it was Daisy.  I thought Yo-Yo seemed likely as well, Lincoln would have been too too obvious, and I like Joey, so didn't want it to be him.  

[John Potts]

OK, I'll give the TPTB some props for actually turning into a villain somebody who (seems to be) the Creator's Pet. However, assuming they "Cure" and then forgive her, they'll lose a lot of that credit. Still, that scene showed Daisy as pretty badass.
 

Quote

 

Lantern7  At least I got to see FitzSimmons kissing . . . which was nice, until the ceiling started falling on them.

 

 

At least it sets him up perfectly for him to ask if the earth moved for her!
 

Quote

 

blackwing I love Joey and Yo-Yo together.  I like how they speak in Spanish together 

 

 

Just after Skye asked them to "Speak English!" I was going "Why? Because it means you're not in the super secret club?"... which is a club you could join by learning the language spoken by maybe a billion people.

 

Quote

mac123x Come on, didn't you learn anything from what happened on the last episode?

 

Sorry... "learn...last episode...?" these words make no sense!
 

[Loandbehold]

3 hours ago, John Potts said:

Quote

blackwing I love Joey and Yo-Yo together.  I like how they speak in Spanish together 

 

 

John Potts Just after Skye asked them to "Speak English!" I was going "Why? Because it means you're not in the super secret club?"... which is a club you could join by learning the language spoken by maybe a billion people.

Which is only two (?) episodes after Bobby was shocked nobody else spoke Russian.

[QTBlueMoon]

On 4/20/2016 at 5:50 AM, kennyab said:

 

No, a team of four is fantastic.

Although, movie-wise, the Fantastic Four isn't.

[dmmetler]

Did anyone but me want them to pick up Bobbi and Hunter when they were also picking up Elena and Joey? Or Deathlok, or a bunch of lanyard wielding clones? I mean, there ARE people Daisy would know who know of SHIELD and could help other than these two new Inhumans who we've known about 30 seconds! You're going against a super inhuman parasite monster who has your team. You don't rely on the JV, you pick up your all stars, even if they're officially retired!