The Star Wars Saga

[xaxat]

On 11/12/2019 at 4:13 PM, BetterButter said:

I know it's not going to happen in an era when every company maintains iron fisted control over their IPs, but I really wish the original trilogy could get the Criterion Collection treatment.

[starri]

Happy Life Day Eve!  Maclunkey, everyone!

[Anduin]

On 3/1/2019 at 7:05 AM, Anduin said:

My predictions on Disney's next moves. Team up with NASA to not just build the Falcon, but make it fly. All the brightest minds in the robotics and AI fields. Want your own astromech? Whatever you call people who work in the field of genetic manipulation. We'll start with the humanoid aliens. Devaronians, Chiss, etc. But one day, Wookiees and Hutts!

Quoting myself because I called it! Not exactly, but close enough! Disney are working on X-Wing drones to fly over Galaxy's Edge. The rest is only a matter of time.

[Anduin]

On this day in 2014, the first teaser was released for The Force Awakens. Before all the arguments, the analysis, the endless debate. I find myself quite nostalgic for that time.
 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Anduin

[SnoGirl]

On 11/24/2019 at 7:13 PM, Anduin said:

Quoting myself because I called it! Not exactly, but close enough! Disney are working on X-Wing drones to fly over Galaxy's Edge. The rest is only a matter of time.

That’s WILD! I was just questioning why Elon Musk is still making more wheeled vehicles-get on the hoover crafts and space ships. Could you imagine how many more people who train to be pilots if they could fly an X-Wing or a Falcon?

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, SnoGirl said:

That’s WILD! I was just questioning why Elon Musk is still making more wheeled vehicles-get on the hoover crafts and space ships. Could you imagine how many more people who train to be pilots if they could fly an X-Wing or a Falcon?

Absolutely!

[JessePinkman]

Now that I have Disney+ I decided to give the prequels a shot. I saw the first one in theaters and did not like it (I was a kid who did not grow up watching Star Wars, I didn't see the original trilogy in their entirety until many years later as an adult so I had zero attachment to anything in the prequels), I knew to skip that one.

I started with Attack of the Clone and wow oh wow this is terrible? Hayden Christensen is legitimately awful. I see all this retroactive praise for the prequels now and I don't understand. The plot is very very boring and all of Anakin's lines sound like ADR. He sounds so awful and the few inflections he does have are on the wrong words. Natalie Portman is a great actress (and her costumes in this are stunning) but Padme sounds like she's had a lobotomy. It's hard to get invested in their romance when they have no chemistry.

Even Sam Jackson seems subdued. Ewan McGregor is the only one that seems to be...acting? In scenes where everything around him is weight less and fake he still comes across as trying.

The CGI was bad then (that's one thing that definitely turned me off of the The Phantom Menace, it looked bad) and is worse now.

Also Anakin is a little shit.

This movie is a chore but at least the soundtrack is good.

[VCRTracking]

It's tough. I see so many good moments in them but they're surrounded by a lot of bad. It's much better if the prequels be looked at as the 4 hour pilot(TPM and AOTC) for the much better Clone Wars animated series and it's finale(ROTS).

[JessePinkman]

27 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

It's tough. I see so many good moments in them but they're surrounded by a lot of bad. It's much better if the prequels be looked at as the 4 hour pilot(TPM and AOTC) for the much better Clone Wars animated series and it's finale(ROTS).

There's a great story in there somewhere (obviously) but the acting, direction, writing and effects are just so bad. 

Padme barely reacting to Anakin's (badly acted) breakdown after murdering a bunch of people took me out. Who approved this take?

[Dandesun]

If you take out the entirety of the Anakin/Padme shitfests Attack of the Clones is actually pretty good. There's this mystery with the missing planet, Obi-Wan going off in search of a rogue Jedi's side project, discovering the planet where the clones are being made, and then the fight with Dooku (seriously though that name is fucking awful) and the Jedi and Clones arriving en masse. All that's pretty cool but it gets completely bogged down in the absolute dumpster fire that is the Anakin/Padme 'romance' which I just flat out don't believe in. Ever. Period. 

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, Dandesun said:

If you take out the entirety of the Anakin/Padme shitfests Attack of the Clones is actually pretty good. 

I don't know I watched it with my 6 year old a couple of weekend's ago and found the main plotline didn't make a lot of sense. I still don't really understand who put the order in for all the clones, nor why Boba Fett's dad was working for both sides. The scene in the arena with all the light sabers lighting up was cool, but during the final battle my daughter had to ask me who was the good guys and who was the bad guys. 

The Anakin/Padme stuff was at least pretty funny in its badness. The scene where she is telling him they can't be together while they are sitting down by the fire and she is wearing what looks like a dominatrix outfit (or at least the network tv version of said outfit) was hilarious.

[Anduin]

34 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't know I watched it with my 6 year old a couple of weekend's ago and found the main plotline didn't make a lot of sense. I still don't really understand who put the order in for all the clones, nor why Boba Fett's dad was working for both sides. The scene in the arena with all the light sabers lighting up was cool, but during the final battle my daughter had to ask me who was the good guys and who was the bad guys. 

The Anakin/Padme stuff was at least pretty funny in its badness. The scene where she is telling him they can't be together while they are sitting down by the fire and she is wearing what looks like a dominatrix outfit (or at least the network tv version of said outfit) was hilarious.

Jedi Master Sifo-Dias had a vision that the Republic needed an army. He talked to Dooku, who was either working for Palpatine at that point or connected with him later. Palpatine got Dooku to recruit Jango to be the donor.

Palpatine's plan was to create a threat that needed fighting, so he hooked up with the Separatists. His end goal was to wear the Jedi out and get them used to having the clones around. When Order 66 happened, the Jedi were completely blindsided. He could declare absolute power with barely a hitch. Anakin getting maimed was unfortunate, but he could work with that too.

There were a line of Republic Commando novels. One subplot involved tracking down who was actually paying for the army. However, I don't remember if it was actually resolved. Really, it'd have to be the Republic from one of those 'black' accounts. Only Palpatine and a couple of his top aides would be in on the plan.

I don't know if Palpatine's ultimate plan has actually been stated. Maybe there will be someting in ep IX. But here's my guess. Create a distopia to harvest the force-energy of people in hardship or outright suffering. When he becomes powerful enough, he ascends to a higher plane of existence. That's what I'd go with. Or maybe he just gets off on sadism.

[Kel Varnsen]

30 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Jedi Master Sifo-Dias had a vision that the Republic needed an army. He talked to Dooku, who was either working for Palpatine at that point or connected with him later. Palpatine got Dooku to recruit Jango to be the donor.

Was Sifo-Dias a real guy because it seemed like Obi Wan had never heard of him, so I wasn't sure if he was an actual Jedi or like the emperor in disguise or something. It also seemed weird that if he was a real Jedi that no one else, like Yoda, knew about his army ordering plan. For that matter it seemed kind of dumb that no one else in the Republic thought an army would be a good idea and when a mysterious one shows up they just use it. And also did the water people who make the clones also happen to make all that military hardware? Because otherwise where did those tanks and spaceships come from?

[Anduin]

24 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Was Sifo-Dias a real guy because it seemed like Obi Wan had never heard of him, so I wasn't sure if he was an actual Jedi or like the emperor in disguise or something. It also seemed weird that if he was a real Jedi that no one else, like Yoda, knew about his army ordering plan. For that matter it seemed kind of dumb that no one else in the Republic thought an army would be a good idea and when a mysterious one shows up they just use it. And also did the water people who make the clones also happen to make all that military hardware? Because otherwise where did those tanks and spaceships come from?

Yep, he was real. As for the equipment, that was produced by all the normal arms and vehicle corporations. There doesn't seem to be anything about who contacted them, when, why, or payment methods.

There's clearly no analogue to trojan horse in the SWU. Because they should have looked a little deeper. I know, it doesn't make sense. But you can either shrug and accept it or go slightly crazy trying to untangle it all. I may be closer to the second condition than is entirely healthy. 😞

[Kel Varnsen]

3 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Yep, he was real. As for the equipment, that was produced by all the normal arms and vehicle corporations. There doesn't seem to be anything about who contacted them, when, why, or payment methods.

There's clearly no analogue to trojan horse in the SWU. Because they should have looked a little deeper. I know, it doesn't make sense. But you can either shrug and accept it or go slightly crazy trying to untangle it all. I may be closer to the second condition than is entirely healthy. 😞

It would be nice if more of that was clear in the damn movie, then again if I hadn't watched it recently I probably never would have cared (I think last time I saw Attack of the Clones was during it's theatrical run). One last question though, who deleted the water world planet off the map and why?

[Anduin]

21 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It would be nice if more of that was clear in the damn movie, then again if I hadn't watched it recently I probably never would have cared (I think last time I saw Attack of the Clones was during it's theatrical run). One last question though, who deleted the water world planet off the map and why?

I don't know if it's ever stated, but my guess is Dooku on Palpatine's orders. He wanted Kamino to stay hidden until the time was right. Don't want any Jedi dropping by on other business and suddenly going, what's with the clone army? The army should appear when needed and people were too busy/grateful to think about it.

[Perfect Xero]

I've always been convinced that Sifo-Dyas was supposed to be a fake as part of Palpy's plan, but then Lucas changed his mind or just let the EU people do whatever they wanted, so we ended up with a Jedi Master and member of the Council who Obi Wan had somehow never heard of.

[Anduin]

59 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I've always been convinced that Sifo-Dyas was supposed to be a fake as part of Palpy's plan, but then Lucas changed his mind or just let the EU people do whatever they wanted, so we ended up with a Jedi Master and member of the Council who Obi Wan had somehow never heard of.

In the version of AOTC I have, Obi-Wan recognises the name and says he died 10 years ago.

But the thing is, it actually is a mistake. Apparently it was meant to be Sidious, but a typo cropped up in the script. Lucas liked it and kept it in. That's something I remember from SWM. Wookieepedia is a little hazier.

Lucas really is an odd sort. I think he and Dino Di Laurentis are the same kind of odd. Di Laurentis was a producer who seemed to like his movies more on the campy or cheesy side. Compare 1982's Conan the Barbarian to its sequel, where apparently he had more influence. See also Flash Gordon. I'm drawing this from the Projection Booth episode on the Conan series. But that's a dozen hours long, fact-check me if you dare!

I'm not saying that either of them are wrong, as such. They create something, they're allowed to determine these crucial details. But as much as I try to respect the creator's decision, as a consumer I sometimes prefer a clearer answer or more serious take on the subject. So, given a choice, I'd have kept it as Sidious.

[andromeda331]

It depends before Disney bought Star Wars. Sifo-Dyas  was on the Jedi Council prior to the invasion of Naboo, friend of Dooku, and had the power of foresight. He saw the coming war and believed the Republic needed an army. The rest of the council rejected seeing them as extreme and/or didn't believe him. both leading to him being removed from the Council. He was still determine to get that army and contacted Kamino. In Darth Plaguis book Plagueis gives Sifo-Dyas the idea for the Clone army. Although at the end of the book Sidious naturally claims it was him who did it. Whether he's telling truth or not who knows. Whether any of that is still the case after Disney bought the franchise I don't. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by andromeda331

[Spartan Girl]

I just read Anthony Daniel's memoir, and it was very good.  Interestingly, he admits that he didn't have as much fun making the prequels as he did the original and new movies.

And this might break your hearts, but it turns out he and Kenny Baker (R2) didn't get along that well.

[Dandesun]

11 hours ago, Anduin said:

In the version of AOTC I have, Obi-Wan recognises the name and says he died 10 years ago.

But the thing is, it actually is a mistake. Apparently it was meant to be Sidious, but a typo cropped up in the script. Lucas liked it and kept it in. That's something I remember from SWM. Wookieepedia is a little hazier.

Lucas really is an odd sort. I think he and Dino Di Laurentis are the same kind of odd. Di Laurentis was a producer who seemed to like his movies more on the campy or cheesy side. Compare 1982's Conan the Barbarian to its sequel, where apparently he had more influence. See also Flash Gordon. I'm drawing this from the Projection Booth episode on the Conan series. But that's a dozen hours long, fact-check me if you dare!

I'm not saying that either of them are wrong, as such. They create something, they're allowed to determine these crucial details. But as much as I try to respect the creator's decision, as a consumer I sometimes prefer a clearer answer or more serious take on the subject. So, given a choice, I'd have kept it as Sidious.

Yeah I had always been under the impression that Obi-Wan knew of him and all versions of AotC I've seen have him referred to as dead for 10 years... but that's part of the whole mystery. What has a decade long dead Jedi master been doing on a planet that doesn't appear to exist in any records?

As for Lucas and a fucking typo that he liked better... **facepalm** sometimes these stories come out and I just think HOW DID ANY OF THIS WORK?!

Edited December 5, 2019 by Dandesun

[andromeda331]

10 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Yeah I had always been under the impression that Obi-Wan knew of him and all versions of AotC I've seen have him referred to as dead for 10 years... but that's part of the whole mystery. What has a decade long dead Jedi master been doing on a planet that doesn't appear to exist in any records?

As for Lucas and a fucking typo that he liked better... **facepalm** sometimes these stories come out and I just think HOW DID ANY OF THIS WORK?!

Plageius or Sidious gave Sifo-Dyas the idea of the Clone Army after he placed the order they arranged for him to be killed. They wanted the army, but no one to know who it was really for or who had really wanted it. The Kaminos wouldn't question a Jedi placing an order and if it eventually reached back to the Jedi. They'd only find out it was placed by a Jedi that was dead and had tried to convince them they needed an army anyways. Dooku deleted Kamino from the system before he left the Jedi Order. I don't remember which book mentioned it whether it was Revenge of the Sith or another one but Yoda deleted Dagobah from the systems and as he did he said or though that he was taking a page out of Dooku's book. 

[Danny Franks]

On 12/4/2019 at 5:50 PM, JessePinkman said:

Now that I have Disney+ I decided to give the prequels a shot. I saw the first one in theaters and did not like it (I was a kid who did not grow up watching Star Wars, I didn't see the original trilogy in their entirety until many years later as an adult so I had zero attachment to anything in the prequels), I knew to skip that one.

I started with Attack of the Clone and wow oh wow this is terrible? Hayden Christensen is legitimately awful. I see all this retroactive praise for the prequels now and I don't understand. The plot is very very boring and all of Anakin's lines sound like ADR. He sounds so awful and the few inflections he does have are on the wrong words. Natalie Portman is a great actress (and her costumes in this are stunning) but Padme sounds like she's had a lobotomy. It's hard to get invested in their romance when they have no chemistry.

Even Sam Jackson seems subdued. Ewan McGregor is the only one that seems to be...acting? In scenes where everything around him is weight less and fake he still comes across as trying.

They're really fucking bad. Some decent looking action scenes, but the framing and direction of the entire trilogy is poor. Static, staid, lots of two shots and group shots without any camera movement.

The dialogue is atrocious, and the ideas Lucas brings to add depth to his world are nearly all bad. I think the actors suffered terribly under Lucas' rigid direction, and there are even behind the scenes shots of actors asking if they can do something a different way then being told not to.

I don't think Hayden Christiansen is a good actor, but Attack of the Clones never even gave him a chance. He's, by turns, creepy and possessive then sweet and genuine, then dangerously unstable. Every fucking red flag you'd be on the lookout for. Framing him as a romantic hero was baffling. Natalie Portman was just working for the money, I'm convinced. Whatever excitement she (or anyone else) had about being in Star Wars was squashed by Lucas' direction.

On 12/4/2019 at 8:59 PM, Dandesun said:

If you take out the entirety of the Anakin/Padme shitfests Attack of the Clones is actually pretty good. There's this mystery with the missing planet, Obi-Wan going off in search of a rogue Jedi's side project, discovering the planet where the clones are being made, and then the fight with Dooku (seriously though that name is fucking awful) and the Jedi and Clones arriving en masse. All that's pretty cool but it gets completely bogged down in the absolute dumpster fire that is the Anakin/Padme 'romance' which I just flat out don't believe in. Ever. Period. 

There are some good ingredients, but it's all mixed so badly. And I will always maintain the more that Jedi are demystified and shown on screen, the less interesting they get. That scene that Lucas thought was so great, with all the Jedi rushing into battle, wielding lightsabers? Hated it. And don't even get me started on Yoda flipping about all over the screen.

For me, the whole point of Yoda in Empire Strikes Back was to show that the Force was beyond the physical. That even small, green muppets could be masters in wielding it, and could perform mental feats that outmatch any physical ability.

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

There are some good ingredients, but it's all mixed so badly. And I will always maintain the more that Jedi are demystified and shown on screen, the less interesting they get. That scene that Lucas thought was so great, with all the Jedi rushing into battle, wielding lightsabers? Hated it. And don't even get me started on Yoda flipping about all over the screen.

I still remember my reaction to Yoda. Half of me felt it was ridiculous, the other half found it cool. I lean more towards ridiculous these days, but I enjoy the ridiculousness. 19 years, I'm still split.

[starri]

22 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I don't think Hayden Christiansen is a good actor, but Attack of the Clones never even gave him a chance. He's, by turns, creepy and possessive then sweet and genuine, then dangerously unstable. Every fucking red flag you'd be on the lookout for. Framing him as a romantic hero was baffling. Natalie Portman was just working for the money, I'm convinced. Whatever excitement she (or anyone else) had about being in Star Wars was squashed by Lucas' direction.

I think he's perfectly fine when given the chance.  No one could have sold that Anakin/Padme nonsense.

Contrast with Revenge of the Sith, he has a lot of good scenes...that aren't with Padme.  The opera scene, from a performance perspective, is one of the best of the entire franchise, and the scene where Anakin and Obi-Wan say goodbye to each other really sells the tragedy of what the audience knows is about to happen.

I think a lot of that is due to Tom Stoppard having been the one who actually wrote the script, and I think Lucas also had Carrie take a pass at it.  It's just better material.

[Anduin]

The thing about Anakin, as a character, he's the father of Luke "Power converters" Skywalker. I think that whining runs in the male Skywalker line. Compare Kylo "Never be as good as Vader" Ren. When you look from that perspective, his dialogue makes sense.

For that matter, if ROTS happens soon after TCW, then he's probably still raw from the Ahsoka thing and in no mood to put up with Jedi Council bullshit. And here's the supreme chancellor, who's been good to him for years now. Always a sympathetic ear. Always encouraged him. Then here's Mace Windu who has been pretty much the opposite the whole time. Sure, it's a retcon. But it's a good retcon.

Much like many of my recent posts, this one kind of got out of hand. 🙂

[Zuleikha]

I don't think Hayden Christiansen is a good actor, but Attack of the Clones never even gave him a chance. He's, by turns, creepy and possessive then sweet and genuine, then dangerously unstable. Every fucking red flag you'd be on the lookout for. Framing him as a romantic hero was baffling.

I think Christiansen was a good actor. I think he portrayed Anakin exactly as the script and story had the character. Anakin IS by turns creepy and possessive then sweet and genuine then dangerously unstable. He is a younger version of Darth Vader after all. 

The problem was the romantic hero framing. It was like the movie knew who the character was, but didn't understand how that character could fit into the story. And Lucas clearly didn't bother to think about how a character like Anakin could attract a character like Padme. It was one of many things that Clone Wars did much better. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I think Christiansen was a good actor. I think he portrayed Anakin exactly as the script and story had the character. Anakin IS by turns creepy and possessive then sweet and genuine then dangerously unstable. He is a younger version of Darth Vader after all. 

The problem was the romantic hero framing. It was like the movie knew who the character was, but didn't understand how that character could fit into the story. And Lucas clearly didn't bother to think about how a character like Anakin could attract a character like Padme. It was one of many things that Clone Wars did much better. 

He was much better in the Clone Wars because it was a series it gave them time to develop Anakin. Lucas tried to shove everything in Attack of the Clones he's a Padawan, he's arguing with Obi-Wan, he's feeling like he's being held back, he's whining, he's thought of Padme every day for ten years, he's reckless, he's having dreams about his mother, show his relationship with Palpatine, he gets his first Jedi solo assignment, he connects with Padme in Naboo, another dream about Mom, races off to find her, finds her just before she dies, has his first dark side moment slaughtering every Tuskin at the camp/village, confesses to Padme, find out Obi Wan's in trouble, race off to help Obi Wan, captured, Padme declares her love for Anakin, they fight animals and Droids, fight Dooku, lose an arm, marries Padme, the Clone War begins. That's a lot to pack into one movie. That's just Anakin's part. I'm not sure any actor could do all of that and pull it off. I know why Lucas wanted Anakin to start out young to have his attachment to his mother and that be what ends up leading him to the Dark Side. But he ends up giving Anakin no room in the 2nd movie because there is so much he needs to set up for the 3rd movie. Its really too much. Anakin's not the only one who suffers. Most of the prequel characters do because there's just not enough time. 

[SnoGirl]

On 12/4/2019 at 11:50 AM, JessePinkman said:

Now that I have Disney+ I decided to give the prequels a shot. I saw the first one in theaters and did not like it (I was a kid who did not grow up watching Star Wars, I didn't see the original trilogy in their entirety until many years later as an adult so I had zero attachment to anything in the prequels), I knew to skip that one.

I rewatched them too. I don’t remember them being such a train-wreck, but WOW they are. Its a shame because they could have been so much more. Should have built more between Obi Wan and Anakin-show him as the free wheeling, pilot risk taker and his friendship with Obi Wan that Obi Wan alluded to in A New Hope. Should have given Padme with more agency than the nervous nelly we got in Episode Three. Wouldn’t it have been wild to see an angry pregnant Padme trying to reign in Anakin? Or trying to secretly set-up the Rebel Alliance once she realized what was going on?

On 12/4/2019 at 12:19 PM, VCRTracking said:

It's tough. I see so many good moments in them but they're surrounded by a lot of bad. It's much better if the prequels be looked at as the 4 hour pilot(TPM and AOTC) for the much better Clone Wars animated series and it's finale(ROTS).

Clone Wars definitely is the best between the prequel movies. I do love Rogue One and Rebels but Clone War builds that relationship between Obi Wan, Anakin and Padme. Its a shame Ahsoka wasn’t apart of the movie-verse because she gave Anakin so many more layers.

If they redid the prequels, I’d get rid of one completely, save the Obi Wan vs Maul for flashbacks, show And build more of a relationship between Obi Wan and Anakin in the second movie, and for the third, have Anakin be Vader for at least half the film just destroying Rebels to show how freaking scary he should have been. Have Padme to be more than what she was in Epsiode Three and definitely include Ahsoka and Caleb Dume.

Edited December 8, 2019 by SnoGirl

[starri]

16 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Or trying to secretly set-up the Rebel Alliance once she realized what was going on?

There were a few scenes that were filmed and ultimately cut of Padme, Bail Organa, Mon Mothma (played by the same actress who would eventually play her in Rogue One) and a few other senators doing something similar.  Unfortunately, they were better in concepts than execution.

[Terrafamilia]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dark-side-of-disneys-star-wars-bet-11575663914

Disney Disturbs the Force: Pleasing Star Wars Fans Complicates Saga

‘The Rise of Skywalker’ looms as a big hit and everyone loves Baby Yoda. But there’s also a disgruntled contingent of fans, a string of fired directors and a decline in ticket sales. ‘We’re gonna hit pause.’

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, starri said:

There were a few scenes that were filmed and ultimately cut of Padme, Bail Organa, Mon Mothma (played by the same actress who would eventually play her in Rogue One) and a few other senators doing something similar.  Unfortunately, they were better in concepts than execution.

Yes, they cut the scenes because they felt the movie was too long. They should have something in the movie. The Padme we knew from the first two movies wouldn't be just doing nothing and she really wasn't. But they cut all the scenes. It was in Revenge of the Sith book where they did present the petition to the Chancellor and the same time Order 66 is going down they were arresting signers and many of those who met with Palpatine. I think it would have added more to the movie. When everyone is clapping in the Senate I always think back to that part in the book. Wondering how many were clapping out of fear. The Jedi were gone, so many of their fellow senators had been arrested, and Palpatine was now Emperor. 

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

I rewatched them too. I don’t remember them being such a train-wreck, but WOW they are. Its a shame because they could have been so much more. Should have built more between Obi Wan and Anakin-show him as the free wheeling, pilot risk taker and his friendship with Obi Wan that Obi Wan alluded to in A New Hope. Should have given Padme with more agency than the nervous nelly we got in Episode Three. Wouldn’t it have been wild to see an angry pregnant Padme trying to reign in Anakin? Or trying to secretly set-up the Rebel Alliance once she realized what was going on?

Clone Wars definitely is the best between the prequel movies. I do love Rogue One and Rebels but Clone War builds that relationship between Obi Wan, Anakin and Padme. Its a shame Ahsoka wasn’t apart of the movie-verse because she gave Anakin so many more layers.

If they redid the prequels, I’d get rid of one completely, save the Obi Wan vs Maul for flashbacks, show And build more of a relationship between Obi Wan and Anakin in the second movie, and for the third, have Anakin be Vader for at least half the film just destroying Rebels to show how freaking scary he should have been. Have Padme to be more than what she was in Epsiode Three and definitely include Ahsoka and Caleb Dume.

They really should have started episode one with Anakin with the Jedi, building the friendship with Anakin and Obi-Wan, flesh out both characters and Jedi Council, they could have flashed back to the battle and flashed back to Anakin's slave life worrying about his mother. Or take half of the second movie and moved it over to the first.

[starri]

I would have liked to see more of it in the movie, but those scenes are REALLY dull.  It also sucks in the sense that it gave Padme more to do that wasn't being pregnant and crying about how Anakin was breaking her heart.

"So this is how liberty dies..." is by far her best moment in the entire trilogy.

The thing that really gets me is that Sith is the only of the three that actually leans into the fact that the prequels are a slow-motion tragedy.  More of that, and I think people would talk about the stuff in each of them that's actually good.

[Danny Franks]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 8:50 AM, Zuleikha said:

I think Christiansen was a good actor. I think he portrayed Anakin exactly as the script and story had the character. Anakin IS by turns creepy and possessive then sweet and genuine then dangerously unstable. He is a younger version of Darth Vader after all. 

The problem was the romantic hero framing. It was like the movie knew who the character was, but didn't understand how that character could fit into the story. And Lucas clearly didn't bother to think about how a character like Anakin could attract a character like Padme. It was one of many things that Clone Wars did much better. 

That's what I meant - the writing for Anakin is utterly charmless and creepy. And there was no believable way for Christensen to make it appealing, or for Portman to be believably attracted to him.

Lucas knew what he needed Anakin to become, but he just didn't have the ability to write a realistic journey. We saw Anakin as an innocent kid, then we saw him as a sulky, unstable teenager (presumably), simmering with anger. There was no transition, and we really didn't get to see much of him being any of the things he was reputed to be - a great Jedi, a great hero, a great pilot. Obviously, the Clone Wars filled in some gaps, but for people who didn't know about the expanded canon, Anakin was always going to be that creepy weirdo who gets into a snit because Padme didn't want him watching her on the security cameras while she got ready for bed.

33 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, they cut the scenes because they felt the movie was too long. They should have something in the movie. The Padme we knew from the first two movies wouldn't be just doing nothing and she really wasn't. But they cut all the scenes. It was in Revenge of the Sith book where they did present the petition to the Chancellor and the same time Order 66 is going down they were arresting signers and many of those who met with Palpatine. I think it would have added more to the movie. When everyone is clapping in the Senate I always think back to that part in the book. Wondering how many were clapping out of fear. The Jedi were gone, so many of their fellow senators had been arrested, and Palpatine was now Emperor. 

If Lucas had spent more time crafting the story and the script for The Phantom Menace, he might have hit on the novel idea of framing these movies through Padme's eyes. As the mother of Luke and Leia, she really should be more important to Star Wars lore than she is, and she's the one who carried that noble, rebellious spirit that they both inherited (Anakin was rebellious, but in a toxic, selfish way). 

There were so many better ways to tell the story he wanted to tell, that would have made Anakin a more remote, mysterious and threatening figure right from the start.

11 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dark-side-of-disneys-star-wars-bet-11575663914

Disney Disturbs the Force: Pleasing Star Wars Fans Complicates Saga

‘The Rise of Skywalker’ looms as a big hit and everyone loves Baby Yoda. But there’s also a disgruntled contingent of fans, a string of fired directors and a decline in ticket sales. ‘We’re gonna hit pause.’

There will always be fans who are disgruntled. The line between love and hate being thin, and all that. I've had some bizarre conversations about gripes that some devoted Star Wars fans have (one of them insisted his biggest problem with The Last Jedi was that Chewie was put off eating that roast Porg because another Porg made him feel guilty).

The Disney Star Wars movies, even at their worst, have been better than anything Lucas offered with his prequels, and if the reliance on nostalgia is being criticised, I would put money on the very same people criticising if the movies had been all new

[absnow54]

It’s funny, the prequel trilogy is terrible, but I still find it infinitely more watchable than the new trilogy. I’ll stop and watch the prequels whenever it’s on TV, but I think I’ve only watched The Force Awakens 2 or 3 times and The Last Jedi only once. At least the prequels you can pick apart and find some interesting story threads that sometimes enrich the original trilogy. The new films, while better written and acted, feel so directionless and boring to me. Rogue One is the only new Star Wars movie that I’ll sit down and watch. 

[Terrafamilia]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

There will always be fans who are disgruntled.

Sure, but I don't think there were any who were clamoring for what was basically a rerun (TFA). And it doesn't help when the filmmakers use the existence of disgruntled fans to try and deflect any and all criticism (TLJ). One of the big takaways from the article is that no one has had any idea where this present trilogy was supposed to go when they were being made.
 

Quote

The rush has impaired the long-term planning for where the Skywalker saga and other Star Wars stories go from here. Rather than take the Marvel approach and begin filming the first movie with the end of the series in mind, Lucasfilm has largely determined the overarching plot from movie to movie, former employees say. That creates a clash since the multiple moving parts of the Disney franchise machine depend on schedules, forward planning and shared information.

When a videogame division at Disney approached the Lucasfilm story group about a game that would take place in the time between “The Force Awakens” and “The Last Jedi,” videogame developers were told the story group had no idea what was going to happen in “Last Jedi,” even though “Force Awakens” was close to wrapping production, according to one of the former employees.

Since different directors were handling different films, “Last Jedi” director Rian Johnson was forced to wait to see how “Force Awakens” director J.J. Abrams would finish his movie before he could finalize his own script. While Mr. Johnson was shooting “Last Jedi,” an installment that took the series in unexpected directions, Lucasfilm executives had little idea how they would wrap up the trilogy in the film that followed, the one premiering this month, according to an executive who worked there at the time.

[Zuleikha]

Sure, but I don't think there were any who were clamoring for what was basically a rerun (TFA). And it doesn't help when the filmmakers use the existence of disgruntled fans to try and deflect any and all criticism (TLJ).

  TFA was wildly successful. It was a small minority of critics who accused it of being a rerun. The rest of us saw it as a completely different story involving different characters, with a few plot points that intentionally repeated the original trilogy for thematic reasons. I agree that no one was clamoring for it, but I also don't think anyone was unhappy about it.

I agree about TLJ, though. I find it very frustrating that valid critiques of the film get handwaved away because some alt-right-oriented sites had ridiculous critiques.

One of the big takaways from the article is that no one has had any idea where this present trilogy was supposed to go when they were being made.

  That's not a new revelation, but yes, I agree it's bizarre. I will never understand why they would greenlight a new trilogy without a basic outline for the story. As much as I dislike TLJ, I do think Johnson was in a difficult place having to create a middle story with so little information about what the middle piece needed to do. It's small wonder he ended up creating a film that felt like a standalone story with minimal connection to what came before.

It's amazing to me that the films have been as good as they generally have been given the poor planning. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 12/8/2019 at 3:13 PM, Terrafamilia said:

Sure, but I don't think there were any who were clamoring for what was basically a rerun (TFA). And it doesn't help when the filmmakers use the existence of disgruntled fans to try and deflect any and all criticism (TLJ). One of the big takaways from the article is that no one has had any idea where this present trilogy was supposed to go when they were being made.
 

In all fairness, 'disgruntled fans' are who wanted The Last Jedi stricken from canon if not removed from existence entirely, which on the entitlement scale is right up there with wanting the final season of Game of Thrones rewritten and redone. I get not liking how something turned out, and I'm sure there are many legitimate complaints that can be made against the film, but there's legitimate arguing and then there's 'We're not happy, so throw this in the garbage and do it the way we want it to be done, because fan service sucks except for when it doesn't.'

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

In all fairness, 'disgruntled fans' are who wanted The Last Jedi stricken from canon if not removed from existence entirely, which on the entitlement scale is right up there with wanting the final season of Game of Thrones rewritten and redone. I get not liking how something turned out, and I'm sure there are many legitimate complaints that can be made against the film, but there's legitimate arguing and then there's 'We're not happy, so throw this in the garbage and do it the way we want it to be done, because fan service sucks except for when it doesn't.'

Let's be honest: for all its faults TLJ was still WAY better than the final season of Game of Thrones.

[VCRTracking]

Kathleen Kennedy Further Explains Why Colin Trevorrow Left ‘Rise of Skywalker’

Quote

When asked directly why things “didn’t work” with Trevorrow, Kennedy took a touch of umbrage with the phrase “didn’t work.”

Well, I wouldn’t say it didn’t work. Colin was at a huge disadvantage not having been a part of Force Awakens and in part of those early conversations because we had a general sense of where the story was going. Like any development process, it was only in the development that we’re looking at a first draft and realizing that it was perhaps heading in a direction that many of us didn’t feel was really quite where we wanted it to go. And we were on a schedule, as we often are with these movies, and had to make a tough decision as to whether or not we thought we could get there in the time or not. And as I said, Colin was at a disadvantage because he hadn’t been immersed in everything that we all had starting out with Episode VII.

[Zuleikha]

But WHY wasn't Trevorrow in those conversations? This whole process was so bizarre!

In all fairness, 'disgruntled fans' are who wanted The Last Jedi stricken from canon if not removed from existence entirely, which on the entitlement scale is right up there with wanting the final season of Game of Thrones rewritten and redone.

The only reason we know about that is because it was clickbait for bloggers to write articles about the petition, and we only know about the petition because it's so effortless to create those things in the Internet era. This wasn't a major movement. There's probably always been disgruntlement at that level (like all the hatred for the poor Ewoks of Endor), but it didn't get outsized attention in the pre-Internet era.

In any case, my point was that stuff like this doesn't invalidate critiques of the plotting, character development, or writing, and it's not very hard to sort the wheat from the chaff. 

[Morrigan2575]

46 minutes ago, Zuleikha said:

In any case, my point was that stuff like this doesn't invalidate critiques of the plotting, character development, or writing, and it's not very hard to sort the wheat from the chaff. 

Thank You! 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

19 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

The only reason we know about that is because it was clickbait for bloggers to write articles about the petition, and we only know about the petition because it's so effortless to create those things in the Internet era. This wasn't a major movement. There's probably always been disgruntlement at that level (like all the hatred for the poor Ewoks of Endor), but it didn't get outsized attention in the pre-Internet era.

That's usually true in most of these really ridiculous instances, though, that it's one group of nitwits who think they should be catered to. I'd like to think that the majority of all fandoms are reasonable people who can make logical arguments, but the fully obnoxious factions are the ones who get noticed because they make the most noise. The internet just makes it easier for them to bring their whinging to everyone else's attention. I don't disagree that TLJ has it's issues, I was just pointing out that there's levels of disgruntled. 🙂

[Silver Raven]

Go to amazon.com and type in "#TheRiseofSkyWalker" and you will get taken to a brief behind the scenes Rise of Skywalker video.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 12/5/2019 at 11:31 AM, andromeda331 said:

It depends before Disney bought Star Wars. Sifo-Dyas  was on the Jedi Council prior to the invasion of Naboo, friend of Dooku, and had the power of foresight. He saw the coming war and believed the Republic needed an army. The rest of the council rejected seeing them as extreme and/or didn't believe him. both leading to him being removed from the Council. He was still determine to get that army and contacted Kamino. In Darth Plaguis book Plagueis gives Sifo-Dyas the idea for the Clone army. Although at the end of the book Sidious naturally claims it was him who did it. Whether he's telling truth or not who knows. Whether any of that is still the case after Disney bought the franchise I don't. 

Well that is some super annoying storytelling. If you are going to make the ordering of the clones a mystery, it doesn't have to be obvious (like easy to solve) but at least make it clear that it is a mystery without having to read a ton of supplemental material. I also still don't understand why none of the Jedis thought something was up (or at least worth questioning) when the guy who was the model for all the clones was also working for the separatists.

And speaking of the clones why didn't the Republic have a standing army? You would think that after episode 1 (if not before) some people would realize you need people to fight. And individual planets obviously see the need for a military since they have military space ships (like the Naboo fighters).

On 12/8/2019 at 9:01 AM, andromeda331 said:

They really should have started episode one with Anakin with the Jedi, building the friendship with Anakin and Obi-Wan, flesh out both characters and Jedi Council, they could have flashed back to the battle and flashed back to Anakin's slave life worrying about his mother. Or take half of the second movie and moved it over to the first.

That would have been way better. Having Padme fall for a daring but reckless knight, upon first meeting would be way better then falling for a guy that she first met when he was a little kid.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And speaking of the clones why didn't the Republic have a standing army?

That's literally what the Jedi Order is supposed to be. 

[Ravenya003]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That would have been way better. Having Padme fall for a daring but reckless knight, upon first meeting would be way better then falling for a guy that she first met when he was a little kid.

Aw man, this would have been much better.

Episode One: They meet and work together platonically and part ways (and are the SAME AGE) though there's a little bit of a spark there.

Episode Two: They meet again, and because Padme's stoicism, self-control and self-denial is more clearly emphasized, it's obvious why she might be attracted to a (as described above) daring but reckless knight. They keep getting thrown into life-or-death situations, he's obviously interested, and the forbidden fruit aspect of it all makes the red flags easier to ignore. (Also, no Anakin confessing to Padme that he'd just killed a bunch of kids. Any sane woman would have run a mile).

Episode Three: Demonstrate that although the two of them are still passionate about each other, there are serious cracks in the marriage (which has probably only survived this long because of the war - absence makes the heart grow fonder and so on). Padme starts to notice things seriously wrong with Anakin, but the time she gets around to real action, it's too late. 

[Bill1978]

This guy does a really good job of creating a more engaging story for the prequels using Lucas' blueprint of plot points and characters. He does carry over the changes he made in TPM through to the other movies.

The Phantom Menace

Attack of the Clones

Revenge of the Sith

[Zuleikha]

I also still don't understand why none of the Jedis thought something was up (or at least worth questioning) when the guy who was the model for all the clones was also working for the separatists.

This confused me SO MUCH in Attack of the Clones! In Clone Wars, I kind of saw that the Jedi were so overwhelmed by the war and the clones were so obviously good, trustworthy people that I bought the lack of caution. But Obi-Wan seemed to be overlooking all these red flags in Attack of the Clones, and I couldn't understand why. 

I also never understood why Obi-Wan attacked Jango Fett in the first place (especially in front of Boba!).