S03.E18: Ragnarok

[catrox14]

I think it might be my favorite fucking word, other than conundrum and shenanigans...Of course I'll just say Sleepy Hollow can fuck right off with it's fucking shenanigans. I've never felt as fucked over by a fucking show.

[cynic]

"We revisit some life changing moments": Three super-quick wardrobe and hair changes, is not a revisit. Neither is a third trip to the Corbin & pie motif. We did not revisit Poor Dead Andy, who certainly was pivotal to her growth and acceptance of her mission as Witness. There was no Scary Ass Dollhouse- sighting or mention- as that was certainly a tribulation and trial for Our Ms. Mills. No flashbacks over her relationship with Jenny. Not one millisecond was spent on Captain Frank Irving and his sacrifice as part of the Witnesses' journey. So no, TIIC, I reject that portion of your bull.

In order for something to come full circle, there must be a return to something. A student graduating, going to college then returning as a teacher to an earlier school is one example. In the docuseries A Chef's Life, Vivian grew up in NC, moved to NY and learned how to be a chef. Her parents said they'd pay for a restaurant she could run, but only if she moved back to her hometown. This is another example. Coming back to something you started out as.

Abbie Mills, on the show, started as a sheriff's deputy about to go to Quantico for FBI training. She eventually did that off-screen. Abbie was still a federal agent when she died. She was stationed in/near Sleepy Hollow, but she rarely, if ever, worked with Sleepy Hollow PD. Nor did she come back to be the sheriff, which could have been a nice in-character nod to her mentor.

To me, there was no "sort of" come full circle. Abbie was straight-up cut down before her prime. Yes, some people in our lives die before they should. This is TV though. If TIIC really knew Nicole wanted gone, this season was rudeness. ( It was also unfair to Mr. Gross and Ms. Camacho, imo, as it feels like they were stuck in all the bts mess, but getting paid for being professional about it all.)...

They didn't even revisit what was arguably the most pivotal moment in her life - encountering Moloch and the four white trees. Granted, that was probably because the didn't want to remind us of how much better this show was in the first season and how much mythology the show threw away in the subsequent two. The finale would have been so much more palatable if she had died battling the last horseman and stopping the apocalypse, instead of a boring, generic big bad that was just conjured up for the season and didn't fit with the original concept of the show.

]

[TaurusRose]

No, what are they?

Read through the current threads to see how the actress and her character have been mistreated during SH's run, then you'll see it's ridiculous to think she had any input in anything regarding her character.

[PaisleyPark]

I think it might be my favorite fucking word, other than conundrum and shenanigans...Of course I'll just say Sleepy Hollow can fuck right off with it's fucking shenanigans. I've never felt as fucked over by a fucking show.

LOVE!!!!  And I like the word "shenanigans," too. :)

[Snookums]

Well, fuck that.

 

I knew going in what had happened, but all that did was somewhat prepare me for the perfunctory, overstuffed, underwritten, rushed, and insulting tour of the garbage fire this show was turned into. Even if Nichole Beharie had left on the very best of terms, that would have been a gob of spit dangling in the viewers' faces, but as it was? It was a punch in the stomach. Every bit and scrap of things that should have been fun or exciting or moving came out as stinging slaps by a showrunner that actively, ragingly loathes the fans.

 

Horseman? Hey, buddy! What's that, here for two seconds then off again because you were only allotted forty five seconds of screentime in this uneven grocery cart with a broken wheel of a plot? Okay! Pandora! How's that goddess thing working out? It's not? WHAT A SURPRISE!  Except it isn't because shutting down that husband of yours who apparently kinda sorta popped you into a mirror because who the fuck cares went down like a drunk scarecrow. Jenny! Shouldn't you be prostrate with grief, rage and shock? Or, you know, shoot THO and whatever, that works too because we've still gotta get on with marching Abbie through the most rushed, superficial crapola of a sendoff ever. That final scene should have ripped my heart out, but instead just had me muttering "Oh, go to HELL, writers. YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE." 

 

That last whole "we know you kept going on about how Ichabbie was lighting in a bottle, but shhhhh, we know what you really care about is a Black woman supporting a white man to the next stage of his journey; coming up, The Ichabod Crane All The Time Hour!" scene had my eyes roll right out of my head. In normal circumstances I'd at least be grateful that Mison, Greenwood, et al could squeeze one more season's royalties out of this fiasco but NOPE. I am nothing but fed up and done.

 

I am a person who watched all three seasons of The Following. It takes a LOT to enrage me enough to drop a show (as opposed to just kinda wandering off because I lost interest/had to work that night/whatever) but this shitshow managed to do it. Just go straight to hell, Sleepy Hollow. You didn't deserve what you had.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Snookums

[Snookums]

The show would rather kill Abbie than pair her with Ichabod.

 

 

I swear to God, this ending and the whole season in general, and last season's StruggleWitch Sidelines The Fucking Star, makes me think that the season two showrunner actively wanted to punish fans for wanting to see a Black woman with a white man.

 

I don't think this is paranoia or "playing the race card" or any of the bullshit that gets trotted out when people are being fucking racists and trying to hide it. Between  Orlando Jones's character death, Jenny shooting Joe last week, the reports of how Beharie was treated (not invited to do commentary for the season 2 DVD????) and trying to convince us she had chemistry with Danny and the rumor that Sophie's going to be the next witness (not only is the Black star of your show replaceable, the Latina actress is such filler it doesn't matter what character she's playing!) it just seems like when the new PTB took over in Season Two he/they decided he'd rather drag the entire thing into the mud rather then let a mixed cast program succeed. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Snookums

[Snookums]

And I retroactively "thumbs up" the majority of the posts ahead of me.  You guys have been great.

 

 

I've been mashing the Thumbs Up button like it's the writers' collective heads! I love this site.

 

You know what?  I still haven't figured out what reason there might have been for bringing in Betsy Ross this season.  Think about it--did her appearances in the show change anything?  Yeah, she made the flag, but that's something that could have been referred to in conversation and its secrets exposed in one of Ichabod's many books.  We didn't actually have to see Betsy.  She was an annoyance that served no purpose.

 

 

She was there solely so that Crane could have a romance with a white woman. Seriously. ZzzzZoe didn't work out and the writers realized the fans were absolutely not going to put up with sidelining Abbie in the present, so bring on Boobsy Ross in the past! Never mind that she made Katrina look like Meryl Streep, never mind that that entire storyline basically made Crane an adulterous, cheating jerk. ANYTHING rather then capture the once in a lifetime chemistry between the two leads that was throwing a blinding fucking light everywhere!

 

 

Abbie goes to purgatory. Abbie goes to catacombs. Abbie goes into the box. Every. Fucking. Time.

 

 

At this point I'd be surprised if Beharie isn't asked to be a Frigidaire spokesperson.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Snookums

[FiveByFive]

I swear to God, this ending and the whole season in general, and last season's StruggleWitch Sidelines The Fucking Star, makes me think that the season two showrunner actively wanted to punish fans for wanting to see a Black woman with a white man.

Let me tell you, "StruggleWitch" is the best description of Katrina that has ever appeared in my vision since the inception of this show. We used to call her, "The Witch That Did Nothing." The most exciting thing the woman did was make an alarm that set a piece of paper on fire and it took her a season and a half to even do that. As long as I live, "StruggleWitch" will be a part of my vocabulary. 

 

it just seems like when the new PTB took over in Season Two he/they decided he'd rather drag the entire thing into the mud rather then let a mixed cast program succeed.

 

 

It was so apparently obvious in this episode that this is exactly what was happening. I loved the fact (as in "that's ridiculous!) that Boobsy was telling Crane that he loved Abbie Mills and not only did she follow that up with "partnership" kind of "love" but it was obvious they were trying to play both sides of the field. Yeah, yeah, we're going to have a few different people say that he "loves" Abbie Mills but then we're going to also say that it's not like, "bang me!" love but more like, "I'll stand by you!" love so people can read into that what they want. No, we see it very clearly. You guys are racist as hell because the idea (or the notion that you'd even explore this idea) that these two characters could EVER be together even to save the show was TOO MUCH for you! 

 

I haven't felt this bad about the treatment of an African American character on the show since Kat Graham's, Bonnie Bennett on The Vampire Diaries. Bonnie "We're Gonna Set You Up With Your Own Brother Because We Only Have One Black Person On This Show And He's Legally Your Brother Then Kill Your Whole Family While You Keep Sacrificing Yourself For Other White Characters And Can't Even Speak Your Own Lines Because Caroline Can Tell Us How You Feel And Are You Even On The Show This Week?" Bennett.

[Astra]

This episode felt so final I had to look for cancellation notices. Was shocked to see that wasn't the case. I like Crane, but him going solo is going to take better writing than the show has had lately. Even then it's pushing it to keep the show under the same title with half the main characters out. This bloodline witness bit may be a way to shoehorn a new actress Abbie, but doesn't explain how Crane always looked the same. Show? You are drunk, go home.

And to think we were teased by scenes like Mills and Crane sharing coffee and a donut in a previous ep. Such squandered potential.

[3dog]

I've been sick about this episode for days now. I can't stop thinking about what a damn dumpster fire the second half of this episode was. I've been hoping I could eventually form some coherent thoughts, but I'm still back in angry and shocked in my grief stages. I'm just...what??? Abbie cheerfully floats off to purgatory while Crane joins Men in Black? Ahhhhhh. I just can't with this.

Edited April 11, 2016 by 3dog

[Sparger Springs]

My guess is that they were testing her out as a possible replacement for Abbie. I'd be willing to bet that if she had a better audience reception, she would have come to the present and taken up Abbie's mantle as co-Witness and probable love interest.

They should've chosen a better actress. She just looked good with her boobs pushed up to her chin. The people behind this show are incompetent.

[kia112]

I've been sick about this episode for days now. I can't stop thinking about what a damn dumpster fire the second half of this episode was. I've been hoping I could eventually form some coherent thoughts, but I'm still back in angry and shocked in my grief stages. I'm just...what??? Abbie cheerfully floats off to purgatory while Crane joins Men in Black? Ahhhhhh. I just can't with this.

Bwahaaa! We need one of those mind neuralyzers to make us forget S2/S3 ever existed. I've never felt betrayed by a television show until this. Even with how mad I was at TWD with their stupid S6 finale stunt, I was never all, "How dare you?!"

[DeLurker]

Congratulations CC & TPTB -

 

You sucked Abbie's soul and put it into a box, which later imploded, and you sucked the soul right out of your show.  And we hope it implodes thereby freeing the soul of TM.

 

Sincerely,

EVERY-FUCKING-ONE

Edited April 11, 2016 by DeLurker

[benteen]

Bwahaaa! We need one of those mind neuralyzers to make us forget S2/S3 ever existed. I've never felt betrayed by a television show until this. Even with how mad I was at TWD with their stupid S6 finale stunt, I was never all, "How dare you?!"

 

I was fond of the two-part Season 2 finale that had Abbie traveling back in time to the 1780s and meeting Crane all over again.  That would have been a far better conclusion to SH if they hadn't of gotten renewed.

[OakGoblinFly]

Orlando Jones @TheOrlandoJones

"The white male lead should totally sacrifice his life to protect the *dark skinned* black girl" said no development executive EVER.

 

 

Just when I thought my love for Mr. Jones had reached its peak, he busts this out.  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Sleepy Hollow Has Done All It Was Meant To Do
The show is out of time, however we might mean that.

[Snookums]

Let me tell you, "StruggleWitch" is the best description of Katrina that has ever appeared in my vision since the inception of this show.

 

 

Oh, how I wish I could claim it as original to me, but I first saw it coined here on the boards during the season two "WTF?" that brought Katrina into prominence. I also delighted in "Whisper Witch" and "The Wigstand," but let me tell you, Boobsy Ross this season made Katrina look like Eleanora Duse come back from the grave. At least Katia Winter managed to sound like she was from the same time as Ichabod and the writing for her character was so incoherent and insulting that nobody could have done much with it. 

[lorbeer]

I know everybody is focused on the very tragic ending BUT I wonder why they dind't want to tell Betsy, back in the catacombs, they came from 21'th century. I've had whole weekend to deal with my loss (the show) and now I'm ready to deep into details.

 

I mean - Betsy Ross should be the one not afraid of new times. Is there something I'm missing? That she couldn't or shouldn't find out the truth? Anybody?

 

She was also quite jealous of Abby, did you notice?

Edited April 11, 2016 by lorbeer

[Julia]

I know everybody is focused on the very tragic ending BUT I wonder why they dind't want to tell Betsy, back in the catacombs, they came from 21'th century. I've had whole weekend to deal with my loss (the show) and now I'm ready to deep into details.

 

That was one of the reasons for the mention of the Star Trek episode. For reasons, Kirk and Spock went back to the United States in the 1930s and met a woman who in their timeline died young. They had the opportunity to save her, but Spock managed to get a computer read of the alternate timeline that would create and realize that if her pacifist message had been allowed to take hold, the US wouldn't have entered WW2 in time to stop Hitler. They let her die so that wouldn't happen.

 

Basically, the writers were lampshading the idea that it was better for everyone that Abbie die by bringing up a famous TV episode where the writer (Harlan Ellison) was talented enough to make that case. Of course, since they're these writers, they screwed that up too, since Betsy did in fact figure it out, and their entire new season, if they get one, would be based on how Washington changed the timeline based on her information.

 

A better example of the timeline problem is this story.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Julia

[PaisleyPark]

I haven't felt this bad about the treatment of an African American character on the show since Kat Graham's, Bonnie Bennett on The Vampire Diaries. Bonnie "We're Gonna Set You Up With Your Own Brother Because We Only Have One Black Person On This Show And He's Legally Your Brother Then Kill Your Whole Family While You Keep Sacrificing Yourself For Other White Characters And Can't Even Speak Your Own Lines Because Caroline Can Tell Us How You Feel And Are You Even On The Show This Week?" Bennett.

LOL!!  Hilarious!  I don't watch TVD, but I've heard about the Bonnie/Damon fans wanting that pairing.  Yeah...good luck with that.  Lol. 

 

You mentioned shows always putting a black guy with a black girl, as if that's the ONLY option possible.  I swear, it's just so insulting!!!  I've been a daytime soaps watcher for years and they pull that mess ALL THE TIME!!!  The two blacks are always coupled together (that is, if they even get a story in the first place!)!  God forbid they put the cute, black female actress with the hot, white romantic lead.  Oh no---can't have that. 

[phoenics]

You know - it's sad. Do black women have to marry Hollywood producers to finally see a shift? Because Melody Hobbs (I think that's her name) married George Lucas and he went and personally bankrolled not only the production of, but the DISTRIBUTION of Red Tails.

[LucidDreamer]

The really painful thing is that this was one of the few -- VERY FEW -- m/f relationships on TV where there was a believable slow burn to love. Abby and Crane became partners and close friends, and it was totally believable. Then one started to see the obvious attraction growing, in a way that totally put most "instalove" (or "instalust") relationships on TV to shame. So, finally, fans are waiting for the pay off -- the well-earned, totally believable coming together of two people who BELONGED TOGETHER on every level.

 

And THIS happens? 

 

I would've been happier if one of two things happened -- Abby and Crane declared their love and had a romantic liasion (not matter how brief), then Abby dies a hero to save the world (better presented than this crap did, though). Crane could then truly mourn his love and if there was another season, be focused on fighting evil rather than another relationship so soon.

 

OR... Both of them died, protecting each other, and moved on into the light together. The two witnesses, never parted again. End of series? Yes. But a fitting one.

Edited April 11, 2016 by LucidDreamer

[lorbeer]

Basically, the writers were lampshading the idea that it was better for everyone that Abbie die by bringing up a famous TV episode where the writer (Harlan Ellison) was talented enough to make that case. Of course, since they're these writers, they screwed that up too, since Betsy did in fact figure it out, and their entire new season, if they get one, would be based on how Washington changed the timeline based on her information.

 

Thank you. I wish that change would bring Abbieback :(.......

[benteen]

You know - it's sad. Do black women have to marry Hollywood producers to finally see a shift? Because Melody Hobbs (I think that's her name) married George Lucas and he went and personally bankrolled not only the production of, but the DISTRIBUTION of Red Tails.

 

That was Lucas's project.  He had been trying to get that produced since 1989.

[AD55]

I am a person who watched all three seasons of The Following. It takes a LOT to enrage me enough to drop a show (as opposed to just kinda wandering off because I lost interest/had to work that night/whatever) but this shitshow managed to do it. Just go straight to hell, Sleepy Hollow. You didn't deserve what you had.

Me, too! The thing about The Following is that it became kind of fun to hate-watch. But I really loved Abbie and Ichabod. I keep being tempted to rewatch the finale because there are some sweet scenes between Tom and Nicole (I don't mean the BS ones at the end), but I know I won't enjoy them. Right up to the conclusion, I kept thinking that Ichabod would find a way to bring her back. I knew I was being naive, but I couldn't help myself. I was sure there couldn't be that much shit absent a pony.

Edited April 11, 2016 by AD55

[saber5055]

Wow, it's universal, the hate for this episode. Add me to it. I was hoping Abbie was only partly dead, then I came here and found the bad news that she's really dead. Just like this show.

 

I didn't exactly care if Abbie and Crane got together physically, but them as a team, with the banter back and forth, was why I watched this show. I could care less about any of the new characters they shoehorned in this season. Seriously. I don't like any of them, and that sleazy tramp Betsy Ross can just go drown in the Potomac as far as I care. Crane and her together? Just ... NO WAY. Especially since wasn't/isn't Crane a married man with moral standards, Betsy?

 

Then Crane gets whisked off to D.C. ala Michael Westin. Please. I just can't with Crane working for the CIA and whomever the writers decide to put Abbie's soul into next season. In fact, I hope there is no next season.

 

Although I'll watch Mison in his new series, if he gets one. The same with Nicole ... wouldn't that be cool if they got hired for some new show together? Hope springs eternal!

[chrisvee]

Hopefully some smart casting director is taking a look at that chemistry! It would be nice to see them in another show together.

[Bad Bitch In Red]

I know everybody is focused on the very tragic ending BUT I wonder why they dind't want to tell Betsy, back in the catacombs, they came from 21'th century. I've had whole weekend to deal with my loss (the show) and now I'm ready to deep into details.

 

I mean - Betsy Ross should be the one not afraid of new times. Is there something I'm missing? That she couldn't or shouldn't find out the truth? Anybody?

 

She was also quite jealous of Abby, did you notice?

 

Seriously, don't try to apply logic to this fuckery.

[HalcyonDays]

Although I'll watch Mison in his new series, if he gets one. The same with Nicole ... wouldn't that be cool if they got hired for some new show together? Hope springs eternal!

 

I just watched Lucifer (great show). He would be awesome as a foil for Tom Ellis (aka another angel). Blond him up a bit and he would be perfect!

 

Did you hear that, FOX?

[Nanrad]

Hopefully some smart casting director is taking a look at that chemistry! It would be nice to see them in another show together.

That would be fantastic, but I'd still miss Abbie and Crane. :(

[catrox14]

I just watched Lucifer (great show). He would be awesome as a foil for Tom Ellis (aka another angel). Blond him up a bit and he would be perfect!

 

Did you hear that, FOX?

 

Nope Nope Nope.  Mison deserves a better show. 

[HalcyonDays]

Nope Nope Nope.  Mison deserves a better show. 

 

Sacrilege! Lucifer is a FUN entertaining show. But yes, Mison deserves a show that can embrace and showcase his incredible talents. If anything, maybe this can lead to better opportunites for all involved.

[Three]

When am I going to run out of things to say about this show? And what will I do with myself then?
 

I remember seeing an interview with TM where he said that his ideal guest part on would be to be on Game of Thrones. So I say get him a gig on that. A long-term one.  Leave this FOX silliness. Are there any beautiful people roles not cast in GoT yet?
 

And for Nikki, just get her something precious and wonderful and creatively and financially satisfying that will let her flourish. Get her whatever she wants I say! And treat her well.

[blugirlami21]

He deserves a better network. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if the show had been on a network like the cw.

They seem to embrace the quirky and the unusual. They also don't seem to be afraid of interracial relationships.

[Sparger Springs]

You know - it's sad. Do black women have to marry Hollywood producers to finally see a shift? Because Melody Hobbs (I think that's her name) married George Lucas and he went and personally bankrolled not only the production of, but the DISTRIBUTION of Red Tails.

he should've kept that money. Well at least he tried.

[Sparger Springs]

I was just thinking about all the dumb shit this show did besides killing Abbie.

 

  Abbie's dad was a total deadbeat. There are no 2 ways around it. His ex wife started acting crazy and he decided to leave his daughters with her and never return. Then they wanted to say he knew about all the super natural stuff going on and he still left his girls with crazy wife. They should've made him a beast like Joe. He could've been scared he was going to hurt and possibly kill his family. They didn't even try.

 

What was the point of Danny?  More utter laziness and or stupidity \ from the show runners. Abbie and Danny are in the FBI academy at the same time and 6 months later he is her boss. I don't care how small the FBI dept is in Sleepy Hollow. The agent just out of the academy isn't going to be running a damn thing. They couldn't have just made him a fellow agent or an experienced agent she met while training at Quantico. If they wanted Abby and Danny to date they should've had them dating or even a flash back to their epic love that couldn't withstand the real world. 

[catrox14]

Abbie's dad was a total deadbeat. There are no 2 ways around it. His ex wife started acting crazy and he decided to leave his daughters with her and never return.

 

I thought the Winchesters had a bad father. At least John taught them how to survive demons and monsters....

[scrambled eggs]

I watched the episode tonight. Half-watched really, since I knew what would happen and was too upset to pay close attention. The scene on the porch made me cry, because it reminded me of how good this show could be when it focused on Abbie and Ichabod. 

 

I can't see the point of SH being renewed. Who would watch? 

[arjumand]

That was one of the reasons for the mention of the Star Trek episode. For reasons, Kirk and Spock went back to the United States in the 1930s and met a woman who in their timeline died young. They had the opportunity to save her, but Spock managed to get a computer read of the alternate timeline that would create and realize that if her pacifist message had been allowed to take hold, the US wouldn't have entered WW2 in time to stop Hitler. They let her die so that wouldn't happen.

 

 

I love (you know I mean hate, right?) that they think they can even breathe the same air as a universally acclaimed episode, written by one of the top science fiction writers of the 20th century, of a groundbreaking tv show which spawned various series and movies.

 

Abbie's summary death was nothing like Edith's. There was no reason for Abbie to die (and frankly, a show not written in the late 60s would have faked Edith's death and snatched her up to live in the future, in a pacifist society which would have suited her better). A better comparison would have been just killing off Uhura, turning her into a redshirt, and even that wouldn't have been the same, because Uhura was never the co-lead. Yet she was seen as important enough for her time, that when Nichelle Nichols wanted to leave the show, Martin Luther King himself persuaded her to stay.

 

The producers had the opportunity to do the equivalent for the 21st century, and they fucked it up.

[Sparger Springs]

This episode had me all in my feelings. I keep thinking of the total fuckery that was unleashed. 

 

When they showed the church, the majority black church, I thought I was seeing Abbie's funeral. Instead Pandora rolls in and basically tells a bunch of black people to worship at her feet. I'm thinking they made Pandora the stand in for the show runners and the members of the church were the fandom.  The people that run this show despised their fans.

[Badsamaritan]

It's now 4 days later, and as my granny would say, I'm still mad as a wet hen.

I think the SH fandom could collectively create a better show for NB and TM than the trash that was served to us. I tweeted a show called 'Tricked', a dramedy about a husband and wife team of pro con artists, William and Celeste Trick. William grew up on the rough streets of London while Celeste graduated from Yale at 17. Soul mates, each with charm to spare, and a force to be reckoned with.

Last nite, I dreamed about it. William has some anger issues and Celeste is the only one who could calm him. The show in my dreams had to be on cable or Netflix cuz their love scene in my dream was pretty steamy.

I hate that it's come to this, invading my sleep. Fuck you FOX, and anybody else responsible for not treating Nikki as the gem she is. Fuck you all to Hell. Bastards.

[DJG1122]

Wow, it's universal, the hate for this episode. Add me to it. I was hoping Abbie was only partly dead, then I came here and found the bad news that she's really dead. Just like this show.

 

 

Then Crane gets whisked off to D.C. ala Michael Westin. Please. I just can't with Crane working for the CIA and whomever the writers decide to put Abbie's soul into next season. In fact, I hope there is no next season.

 

So, am I correct in thinking that no one from the town of Sleepy Hollow would follow Crane to Washington? A total reboot without Danny, Sophie, Ezra Mills or Jenny?

Edited April 12, 2016 by DJG1122

[OakGoblinFly]

Welp!  That happened and I'm still shaking my head at the ....... I don't even have a word to describe the mess that I endured.

 

This show no longer resembles the show that I fell in love with, and worse, the characters aren't even the same (sure they have the same name but they're not the same characters we meet in the pilot).

 

I have to thank the powers-that-be and the writesrs; after that shit-show,  I will find it easier to break up with you for reals.

[benteen]

Sacrilege! Lucifer is a FUN entertaining show. But yes, Mison deserves a show that can embrace and showcase his incredible talents. If anything, maybe this can lead to better opportunites for all involved.

 

I've heard Lucifer is a good show and maybe something I'll check out at some point.  I would be terrified though if I were a fan for the show's future with how badly Fox messed up Sleepy Hollow.  Hopefully they have better showrunners than SH because I wouldn't count Fox ever learning from their mistakes.

Edited April 12, 2016 by benteen

[AD55]

I love (you know I mean hate, right?) that they think they can even breathe the same air as a universally acclaimed episode, written by one of the top science fiction writers of the 20th century, of a groundbreaking tv show which spawned various series and movies.

 

Abbie's summary death was nothing like Edith's. There was no reason for Abbie to die (and frankly, a show not written in the late 60s would have faked Edith's death and snatched her up to live in the future, in a pacifist society which would have suited her better). A better comparison would have been just killing off Uhura, turning her into a redshirt, and even that wouldn't have been the same, because Uhura was never the co-lead. Yet she was seen as important enough for her time, that when Nichelle Nichols wanted to leave the show, Martin Luther King himself persuaded her to stay.

 

The producers had the opportunity to do the equivalent for the 21st century, and they fucked it up.

 

This. I had no idea that MLK intervened when NN wanted to leave Star Trek (actually, I didn't know she wanted to leave). Wow.

This episode had me all in my feelings. I keep thinking of the total fuckery that was unleashed. 

 

When they showed the church, the majority black church, I thought I was seeing Abbie's funeral. Instead Pandora rolls in and basically tells a bunch of black people to worship at her feet. I'm thinking they made Pandora the stand in for the show runners and the members of the church were the fandom.  The people that run this show despised their fans.

 

That was a huge WTF moment for me. Incredibly offensive on multiple levels. Perhaps the worst thing is that, once again, the show runners had no clue about the implications of that scene. I mean, how do writers name check Ta-Nehisi Coates and Nina Simone in one episode and than insert that scene into the finale? Do they know anything about Coates and Simone or did they just go to the Dictionary of Famous Black Folks and then congratulate themselves on being hip? Whether or not the episodes had different writers doesn't matter. Maintaining some sort of cohesion is the show runner's job. The obliviousness is mind boggling.

 

I visited Coates's twitter feed after the episode in question. A few people mentioned that he got a shout out. Coates tweeted something like "It didn't happen." I assumed he was kidding or being modest, but perhaps that was either wishful thinking or prescience on his part. I don't expect sophistication from a show like SH (it's Fox after all), but I wish the writers had at least resisted boldly going where they had never gone before.

[Julia]

I thought Ezra was supposed to be a member of the shadowy George Washington organization.

[lorbeer]

Seriously, don't try to apply logic to this fuckery.

Good point.

[orza]

So, am I correct in thinking that no one from the town of Sleepy Hollow would follow Crane to Washington? A total reboot without Danny, Sophie, Ezra Mills or Jenny?

That is not the impression I got from the last scene. They said Crane needed to go to Washington DC to talk to some people. There was no indication that he wouldn't be back. Ezra is, apparently, a member of Washington's organization and was tasked with making first contact with Crane. How else would he have gotten the historical document he gave Crane. Reynolds and Sophie may also belong to the organization. That would explain how they both ended up in Sleepy Hollow with the FBI office as a front for the covert organization.

[snarktini]

My guess is it could go either way, depending on how their new storyline develops. They probably don't know yet, either. They left a lot of wiggle room for the writers, lots of characters, a new shadow organization, and a trip to DC. They could reboot Crane into a new context with new people, or keep him in SH with some of the old Team Witness, or some combination. I assume they'll make those decisions based on the story that serves finding the new witness, which could be a half season arc or more. (And, it probably should, if they want any chance of salvaging this. An instant reboot and partnership with Not Abby sounds too stupid even for them. Oh, who am i kidding. I don't trust these writers at all!)

 

I doubt they'll ditch everyone or keep everyone, but at this point it's just a guess.

[bmjax]

I thought the episode overall was very good. I was entertained and I thought all the actors and actresses were phenomenal. I teared up when it was revealed that Abbie was really gone. I may have needed many tissues during the scene between Abbie and Corbin (sniff sniff). I don't follow the show on any social media and honestly I have no interest in the bts information. As long as the shows entertains, I will watch.

I loved the return of headless. Does this means he is back? Will this become an issue in S4 (if there is one)? What about Jenny? She lost both Joe and Abbie in such a short period of time. I am very interested to see where her character goes from here.

I definitely understand the outrage of losing such an amazing actress in NB and the onscreen chemistry between her and TM. But I have no doubt that NB will land a new role on a awesome new (or existing) show and I will follow her there to watch.

I have really enjoyed reading this board, even if I rarely post. Everyone has had such great insights and the thoughts and theories have been spot on.

Edited: because it is "Abbie" and not "Abby"

Edited April 12, 2016 by bmjax