All Episodes Talk: 48 Hours

[ari333]

No they are all his children. The other three children are boys.

Thanks.

Sorry. I was thinking of another case.

DOH!

[walnutqueen]

Thanks.

Sorry. I was thinking of another case.

DOH!

 

I know the one you're thinking of - I almost made the same mistake.  So many Dads killing Moms ... so many crime shows to watch & confuse!  :-)

[UsernameFatigue]

Photo fox I would love to hear your take on the case. From what I have read it sounds like most of the jurors thought he was guilty but some thought that there was enough reasonable doubt (shades of Casey Anthony) to find him not guilty, hence the hung jury.

 

I wonder what were the circumstances that brought Curtis together with wife number three? I found her first interview segment on the show rather odd. She said that they knew each other in high school but then hadn't seen each other in 25 years. And that she had no idea if he was married or divorced. She went on to say that when she 'opened the door' his first remark was that she was so much prettier in person than her pictures. Was she opening the door to a first date? Is that why he had seen pictures of her beforehand? Why would she be dating him, not knowing if he was married or divorced? They also married three months after his divorce from the second wife was final, and he was arrested 8 months after that. So they were dating when he was being investigated in 2013 and married at the end of that year. Seems like he was moving quickly to put a family together. But it explains why she is still so ga-ga over him - he has been in jail since they were newlyweds.

 

Also interesting that he was also an alcoholic - I don't know if that was ever brought up on the show? He was an alcoholic when he was married to Cory and didn't get sober until 2012. Also the judge would not let the second wife testify for the prosecution - apparently he was physically abusive in their marriage.

 

Anyway would love to hear anything you might want to share about the case, photo fox!

[Ohmo]

Yes, photo fox, please ramble.

 

I think he did it.  I agree with those who say that the hands are a big deal.  That position seems defensive in nature to me.  It's too bad that her mother seemed to believe that there was nothing suspicious about Cory's death.  She allowed the cremation.

 

I could not stand the third wife.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Ohmo

[BindsTheTuna]

I didn't watch this episode, but hung juries fascinate me. Did they say what the breakdown was in favor of or against conviction?

[Medicine Crow]

Third wife more like a P.O.S.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Medicine Crow

[UsernameFatigue]

I just happened to be thumbing though a People magazine while waiting for my hairdresser and there was an artice (from January) on this murder. In the article Curtis admits that he was an alcoholic, and also that he had been collecting unemployment and living in his parents' basement at one point. What a loser. What is wrong with wife number three that she thinks he is such a catch?

 

photo fox, where are you?

[glowlights]

I didn't watch this episode, but hung juries fascinate me. Did they say what the breakdown was in favor of or against conviction?

 

Three (including the foreman) voted not guilty, and after 16 hours the jury eventually deadlocked at an even split.

http://www.wgem.com/story/31225998/2016/02/15/lovelace-trial-jurors-split-over-whether-fair-retrial-is-possible-in-adams-county

 

There's also a couple of additional videos available on the 48 hours website with Maher talking to jurors:

Differing information from investigators and medical experts regarding the time it takes for medical rigor mortis to set it -- to determine when Cory Lovelace died -- was a problem for some jurors, who spoke with "48 Hours" correspondent Maureen Maher.

The group of six talked candidly about the facts of the case, the battling expert witnesses and why they ultimately could not agree on a verdict after deliberating for 16 1/2 hours over two days.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jurors-in-quincy-ill-murder-trial-of-curtis-lovelace-speak-out-to-48-hours/

Edited February 24, 2016 by glowlights

[BindsTheTuna]

Wow. Thanks! 

[ButterQueen]

photo fox ----- please ramble.

The third wife drove me nuts. Every time she said, our boys, I would yell....they are not your boys!! She barely knew them when their Dad was arrested.

No offense, but looking at the few jury members, I wasn't surprised it was a hung jury. They need a change of venue.

[UsernameFatigue]

I don't know if I should have watched those videos - the sheer stupidity of some of those jurors, not to mention the latest wife have made me stabby.

 

Love this quote from one of the jurors who voted not guilty: "We wanted hardcore evidence," Venvertloh said. "Proof that that man's DNA was on a murder weapon that murdered her, and they can't prove that."  I guess she missed the part of the trial where they were told that one of the pillows was missing? Ya know, the one that Curt used to smother Cory?

 

How did the jury pick the foreman? Lowest IQ? His comment regarding the rigor of the arms - one was just a bit stiff and the other a bit more. They were stiff enough to be hanging in the air you moron. Sheesh.

 

I love that the three jurors who voted not guilty think other jurors were prejudiced against Curt. No chance that they themselves were prejudiced in Curt's favour, apparently.

 

And the wife. OMG. Curt picked her well, I will say that much for him. She says that Curt "has a wonderful relationship with God". WTF does that even mean? I doubt that God told her that, so that leaves Curt. Or does she have some kind of inside knowledge. Pray tell, what would that be?

 

I don't think they said the next trial is in a different venue, did they? I predict another hung jury if it isn't.

Edited February 26, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[ButterQueen]

My husband is a physician. His theory--- she was smothered the night before and Curtis left the pillow over her face, not realizing rigor would set in....with her hands in the defense position. He probably didn't want to look at her. He said no way was she alive when the husband took the children to school......not enough time for rigor to set in.

Curtis probably told the kids in the car, hey I see mom came down to see you off. I wonder how he kept them from going up and kissing her good-bye?

The IQ of those jurors seemed very low. The one woman looked like she hadn't washed her hair in weeks.

[UsernameFatigue]

My husband is a physician. His theory--- she was smothered the night before and Curtis left the pillow over her face, not realizing rigor would set in....with her hands in the defense position. He probably didn't want to look at her. He said no way was she alive when the husband took the children to school......not enough time for rigor to set in.

 

That seems exactly to be what the prosecution said, and their expert witnesses testified to.

 

In the 48 hours videos that someone posted a link to above I rewatched the video with the foreman. (It is hard to find as it is under the "pathology testimony an issue for some Lovelace jurors" but there are several videos under that heading). Anyhoo he laughs when he says that 'some of the nurses' had a hard time with the expert who said rigor could have set in that morning within the 45 minutes Curtis was gone. He looks at the lady juror beside him who I assumed was a nurse. (And she looks very pissed off). I wondered if there were more nurses on the jury but then he goes on to say that his mother is a nurse also. But he didn't believe the nurses who actually are around people who have recently passed. He also sited the cop Baird who is the one that said one arm was slightly stiff and the other a bit more. Sounds to me like he is prejudiced in favour of the cop (the one who screwed up the investigation in the first place). The cop that also said he interviewed the three older children two days after Cory was found, but none of the children remember that happening. The cop (I believe now retired?) who refused to be interviewed for the show.

 

This case really needs to be tried somewhere where people do not know each other including those testifying, and most importantly Curtis.

Edited February 27, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[Shriekingeel]

I've seen more evil and more warped people than Dinh and Jennifer Bowman, but damn those two are strange. But the best part was "cuddleplum" Jennifer doing a 180 and cutting Dinh out of her life.

I wanted them both to get the chair just for the sickening baby talk.

[Ohmo]

I've seen more evil and more warped people than Dinh and Jennifer Bowman, but damn those two are strange. But the best part was "cuddleplum" Jennifer doing a 180 and cutting Dinh out of her life.

I wanted them both to get the chair just for the sickening baby talk.

 

Yeah, evil is not the right adjective for Dinh, more like delusionally, quirkily deranged.  I agree with the detective who said that he didn't think Dinh got up that day and thought, "Hey, I'm gonna kill someone today."  It seemed more like he had been fascinated with the subject of murder, a situation presented itself, and he acted. Evil implies intent to me, and I think Dinh looked at it more as an opportunity to cross something off a macabre "bucket list."  He seems more twisted than he does evil.

 

I'm sure Jennifer should be charged with something in connection with helping Dinh cover up the murder, but the cops likely don't have enough proof on her to make anything stick.

 

Yancy seemed like a cool dude.  I'm sorry that his best bud no longer has him in his life.  They seemed like close friends.  I also feel sorry for Dinh's mother.  This seems to be both a great parental and cultural shock to her.  His father chose to stay silent.  I wonder how he's processing all of this?

Edited February 28, 2016 by Ohmo

[Steph J]

I also feel sorry for Dinh's mother.  This seems to be both a great parental and cultural shock to her.  His father chose to stay silent.  I wonder how he's processing all of this?

 

I feel for his mother, but at the same time I feel like her offer to serve time in his place is probably indicative of how he's gotten through his entire life. He strikes me as the sort of person who never had to suffer consequences for any of his actions because everyone around him treated him like the most special snowflake and just made excuses for him any time he did something wrong and smoothed things over for him every time a problem arose.

[Tdoc72]

In addition to thinking he was completely guilty, I thought he was fake sobbing at the end. I saw 1 tear that he managed to eke out.

[starri]

I really wish Susan Spencer had been the one covering this.  I could totally hear her snarking on the bunny/snuggles thing.  Adults should not speak that way for each other.

 

I also have to feel really guilty because I thought Dinh was kind of hot.

[walnutqueen]

What a little piece of shit.  Dinh is shocked that the jury didn't believe him, and then apologizes for the judge being put in the difficult position of having to sentence him.  No apologies for the victim's family or his own parent though.  Too bad his suicide attempt was a failure; but if at first you don't succeed ...

[starri]

Wouldn't we rather he rot in jail for the entirety of his sentence instead of taking the quick way out?

[Enigma X]

Taking these types of shows in its totality, I have never seen anyone  as much of a  smug asshole as Dinh! Jennifer definitely deserves to serve some time too.

 

At first, after listening to his mother wanting to take his punishment, I felt sorry for his parents. I then realized that I don't. She was right on something. It is at least partially their fault because that letter suggests to me, as someone said above, his whole life up until that point has been filled with no consequences and a hell of a lot of rewards. Yes, ultimately, the crime of murder falls of the shit known as Dinh, but some parents facilitate and even nudge unwillingly. This seems to be one of those instances.

 

Personally, killer or no killer, I found nothing attractive about Dinh. From the first meeting he exuded oily entitlement wrapped in a prepubescent package.

[walnutqueen]

Wouldn't we rather he rot in jail for the entirety of his sentence instead of taking the quick way out?

 

Well, sure we would, but he's really not worth the cost to keep him.  :-)

[ari333]

I really wish Susan Spencer had been the one covering this.  I could totally hear her snarking on the bunny/snuggles thing.  Adults should not speak that way for each other.

 

I also have to feel really guilty because I thought Dinh was kind of hot.

The fact that he was a genius, decent looking, with a wife and home made it all the worse and even more evil. He had a decent life and couldnt even appreciate it... as in not commit murder and destroy another human, their family and friends, and his own life.

 

Pretty stupid for a genius to download all that murder stuff. Wow.

 

And miracle   that that witness could provide a sketch and the car description. I missed a bit here. Is that how the tip person came forward with his name? Do we know who the tipster was? But thank God for that.

 

We call each other silly endearing names, but only in the privacy of our home sheesh.  And the chick seemed to have a baby voice all the time and all of her "Im... not..... sherrrrrr" s made me sick as did Dinh's baby voice. VOMIT.

 

I think Snuggles totally was in on it somehow. I wish they could charge her. She knew something and that matters.

[ari333]

Wouldn't we rather he rot in jail for the entirety of his sentence instead of taking the quick way out?

 

Nope. For me, give him the quick way out. It's not like there is any doubt that he did it. He would still have a smidge of a life in prison. He could read, have visitors. Yancy's visitors are at the cemetery.

Did they say why there was little furniture in their house since she made a quarter mill a yr?

[ari333]

I haven't even finished watching the whole show. I was so enraged I had to come here and rant. Agreed. I have never seen such a smug, arrogant asshole as that Dinh.

 

I wonder how much mom contributed to this man's..... "personality" etc. If she was willing to do his time, that tells me a lot about why he turned out like he did.

 

And that Snuggles chick is insufferable. Also pretty stupid to lie about your whereabouts when you have receipts with time and day stamps in your purse sheesh.

Edited February 28, 2016 by ari333

[Cherrio]

I hope he lives a very long life in prison being passed around as their own personal bunny.  I don't have an ounce of sympathy for his parents either. All they cared about was their spoiled brat loser son, not the victim.

         I had to laugh the second I saw the back of the head of his defense lawyer. I knew it was John Henry Browne.  His promised Ted Bundy full of secrets book never came out and he now has a very prominent drinkers nose.  He would of stayed Bundy's Seattle attorney, but iirc he was badly injured in a motorcycle accident.

[starri]

Nope. For me, give him the quick way out. It's not like there is any doubt that he did it. He would still have a smidge of a life in prison. He could read, have visitors. Yancy's visitors are at the cemetery.

If he's tried to commit suicide, he may well be in solitary confinement.  To my mind, perhaps because I am, if not really claustrophobic, at least terrified of being trapped places, worse than death.

[ari333]

I hope he lives a very long life in prison being passed around as their own personal bunny.  I don't have an ounce of sympathy for his parents either. All they cared about was their spoiled brat loser son, not the victim.

         I had to laugh the second I saw the back of the head of his defense lawyer. I knew it was John Henry Browne.  His promised Ted Bundy full of secrets book never came out and he now has a very prominent drinkers nose.  He would of stayed Bundy's Seattle attorney, but iirc he was badly injured in a motorcycle accident.

 

BBM

Now wait, I did not even think of that. OK I can get on board with that.

 

ANd wow he was dressed like Little Lord Fauntleroy in court.  And he claims he could hear what Yancy supposedly said to him.  BAH.  ANd even if someone made you feel threatened you are in a beemer. Get the hell out in 0 to 60 mph in 3 seconds and do not shoot a person 4 times in the effing head. Talk about blaming the victim.  

"Was your intent to kill him?"

"NO" ...

.....and hell freezes over right there.

 

What a disgusting piece of shit, excuse for a human being.

Throw away the evidence that would support his own story... genius.

[ari333]

If he's tried to commit suicide, he may well be in solitary confinement.  To my mind, perhaps because I am, if not really claustrophobic, at least terrified of being trapped places, worse than death.

 

Ooops. I thought "quick way out" meant the death penalty. No way do I want suicide for this person bc that is his last piece of control. He gets to decide when he goes... Yancy didn't get that choice.

Snuggles didn't show up at court but stayed in "constant contact?" (phone etc?) what?

But at least she finally "cut off all ties." That was the only smart thing she did.

Jennifer got away with something.. She needs to be charged with ... IDK what but something.

[starri]

Ooops. I thought "quick way out" meant the death penalty. No way do I want suicide for this person bc that is his last piece of control. He gets to decide when he goes... Yancy didn't get that choice.

Washington hasn't been enforcing its death penalty statute since 2014, the year Bunny was convicted.  They also have very few inmates serving "Life with no Parole" as well.

[ari333]

Washington hasn't been enforcing its death penalty statute since 2014, the year Bunny was convicted.  They also have very few inmates serving "Life with no Parole" as well.

 

Thanks I didn't know that. But if anyone deserves the death penalty, he does imo. At least he got 29 years. That is some consolation.

Unless 29 years means that he'll get out way before that -- in which case. EEEWW and unfair.

[UsernameFatigue]

I am not often as repulsed by someone as I was by Dinh - I didn't find him the least bit attractive. I found him to be androgynous on top of his obvious narcissism. And I can't believe Snuggles was a dentist - ugh. I can't imagine her having the personailty to take care of patients. I wonder if she has changed jobs to hide her identity or she was just a lousy dentist. I also can't believe she got away scott free. Even if she didn't know about the crime beforehand she certainly knew after, given her note on the fridge and her lying to the cops. I'm not sure (pun intended) that they couldn't have gotten a conviction where she is concerned.

 

I am on the fence regarding the parents. Yes, they may have spoiled Dinh all his life but I also know people who have perfectly normal parents who turn out to be narcissists (my hubby's ex for one). Some people are just born that way. And some are born evil - which I think Dinh is. I had to laugh when the defense lawyer read his mother's statement - I think he even rolled his eyes. And since I know little about the mother (or father) her tears and plea could have been as phoney as her son's - who really knows? I just wish that when the judge handed down the sentence he had told Dinh that it was not a problem at all to sentence him to 29 years.

[ari333]

Snuggles seemed to have a serious screw loose. Im shocked, SHOCKED I tell you! -  that she was able to get through dental school, graduate, get a license, and a practice. YIKES.

I really hope that karma comes for bunny.... HARD.

[pamplemousse]

Wow, what a pair of evil whackjobs, the both of them. The thought of her with access to drills and picks and such is disturbing. I can't believe he only got 29 years for shooting an unarmed person four times in the head at nearly point-blank range.

[tenativelyyours]

All I could think of in regards to Snuggles was when I went away to college, my family dentist retired and a new man came in to take over the practice.  Immediately there were huge complaints about how he ignored patients' pain and discomfort.  So much that while there was talk about an investigation, it didn't take off.  However the retired dentist re-opened a new office and the Pick and Drill for His Pleasure Guy saw his own practice simply crumble to nothing.  So I'm thinking that dentistry might have been right up her alley right from the start what with the picks and the drills.  I wonder if anyone ever swept her place of work for small hidden cameras?  She seemed off in all kinds of ways.

 

Dinh seemed like he had special snowflake syndrome to the nth degree.   

[kathybgd]

I laughed my ass off when "Bunny' was being sentenced! Both Bunny AND Snuggles are serious whackos and I thought he was repulsive looking as was his "I'm not sure" POS wife!

[ChristmasJones]

Its rare that I actually feel anger when I am watching a true crime show. I mean, of course I am always angry at horrible crimes being committed, but rarely does it rise to the level where I actually give the person the middle finger from my couch while I watch him bawling like a baby at sentencing.

 

Man was that priceless after watching him being so smug and cold up until that point.

 

It was also enjoyable to watch his face scrunch up in confusion when the guilty verdict was read.

 

What really scared me about this case is that I could easily picture myself being Yancy. How many times have we all been out driving around and we inadvertently piss someone off. I am just thankful that so far none of the people I've done that to decided to pull out their handgun and blow my head off.  That is seriously scary!!!!!

 

I am so glad that Bunny's suicide attempt failed- and now he get to be in a cell with a paper gown and eat his food with his fingers to make sure he can't hurt himself again.

 

His dad in particular looked absolutely crushed, and seemed to appreciate how horrific this crime was. At least that is the impression I got from the video of him in court.

 

As for Snuggles, I wonder how she is feeling now that this episode aired. Can you imagine the humiliation you would feel if you watched yourself in a show like this? Knowing it was being broadcast to millions of people around the country? OMG I would just die. And then to have everyone hear those tapes of your horrid baby voice?? Can you imagine being her and trying to go out for coffee on Sunday morning?  I think the public shame is almost better than putting her through a trial where she might end up walking anyway.

 

Wow, this was one of the most sickening crimes I've seen in a while.

Edited February 29, 2016 by ChristmasJones

[Fable]

What really scared me about this case is that I could easily picture myself being Yancy. How many times have we all been out driving around and we inadvertently piss someone off. I am just thankful that so far none of the people I've done that to decided to pull out their handgun and blow my head off.  That is seriously scary!!!!!

 

 

I know...this bothered me too.  Did Yancy even do anything to piss him off, if so I missed it.  The randomness just really disturbed me.  It seemed like he was just driving down the street, minding his own business when out of the blue someone shot at him.  Wow, that could be me, that could be you or someone we love and/or care about.  

Edited February 29, 2016 by Fable

[ChristmasJones]

I know...this bothered me too.  Did Yancy even do anything to piss him off, if so I missed it.  The randomness just really disturbed me.  It seemed like he was just driving down the street, minding his own business when out of the blue someone shot at him.  Wow, that could be me, that could be you or someone we love and/or care about.  

 

We will never know how these two initially came into contact with each other. There are various possible scenarios- I think its likely some version of these two:

 

1. Yancy inadvertently did something while driving that pissed Bunny off, and then Bunny followed him

 

2. Bunny did something that pissed Yancy off (either on purpose or inadvertent), and then Yancy did something like pull in front and brake check him, and then Bunny decided to even the score

 

Those are just two- but regardless of the initial provocation, Bunny decided to use it as a justification to himself to pull out his gun and murder Yancy. I tend to agree with the detective who essentially said Bunny had been priming himself for such an encounter, and then when it presented himself, his "training" kicked in and he acted on the thing he had been thinking about and perhaps fantasizing about for years.

 

I have done enough driving to know that it is very easy to inadvertently piss someone off while driving. I recall an incident a year or two ago where I was on a four lane highway (two lanes on each side) and there was a guy going dead on the speed limit (60mph) in the left lane.  I came up behind him (but didn't get close) and moved to the right, as I was going 65-68mph. As I passed him, this seemed to bother him, and he proceeded to speed up to match my speed.  Traffic was merging ahead, and he wouldn't let me back in. So I pulled in behind him and he proceeded to slow waaayyyy down to far below the speed limit. I tried again to go around him, and he sped up again.

 

I then decided that he was a pure nut job and I didn't know what kind of crazy stunt he would pull next, so I slowed down and just waited until he was no longer anywhere near me.

 

This is the type of situation I envision when I think about how Bunny and Yancy initially came into contact.

 

I am doubtful that Bunny just drove around looking for someone to shoot. He wanted that provocation to give him the excuse to pull out his gun and fire.

[LittleIggy]

We can be thankful that Bunny and Snuggles did not succeed in procreating.

[ari333]

Wow, guys; I see it just the opposite. Imo, Yancy did nothing to piss off bunny because.... that would have given bunny reason to shoot (in his mind.). Bunny did not WANT a reason. Bunny wanted to take an innocent person's life....someone who never did anything against bunny even in traffic. That's how I see bunny's motive.  There is more horror in shooting some random person sitting, UNSUSPECTING at a light. Two people engaged in road rage-ish antics would expect some violent or rude reaction. Bunny wanted it to be senseless and as cruel as possible, hence no instigation from Yancy. (imo)

Edited February 29, 2016 by ari333

[ari333]

We can be thankful that Bunny and Snuggles did not succeed in procreating.

 

Omg that is a scary gene pool right there.

The problem with no death penalty in this case (since he is clearly guilty) is that in prison, some dumb shit woman fro the outside will marry him and have his satan spawn .. and here we go....

[LittleIggy]

Wow, guys; I see it just the opposite. Imo, Yancy did nothing to piss off bunny because.... that would have given bunny reason to shoot (in his mind.). Bunny did not WANT a reason. Bunny wanted to take an innocent person's life....someone who never did anything against bunny even in traffic. That's how I see bunny's motive.  There is more horror in shooting some random person sitting, UNSUSPECTING at a light. Two people engaged in road rage-ish antics would expect some violent or rude reaction. Bunny wanted it to be senseless and as cruel as possible, hence no instigation from Yancy. (imo)

I agree. I see it as a "thrill kill." Like Leopold and Loeb (to name a famous example), Bunny wanted to kill someone just to see/feel what it was like. To borrow a lyric from Johnny Cash "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die."

[ari333]

I agree. I see it as a "thrill kill." Like Leopold and Loeb (to name a famous example), Bunny wanted to kill someone just to see/feel what it was like. To borrow a lyric from Johnny Cash "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die."

 

Yes. I think bunny got off on the horror. Imagine Yancy, just stopped at a light, and then this gun comes up out of the blue and shots fired... HORROR.

[RedheadZombie]

When Dinh stood there sobbing like the bitch that he is, I said to my mother, "he probably has ten boyfriends by now". I'm sure it's wrong, but I said it with great satisfaction.

[starri]

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but it makes me really uncomfortable to how glib everyone is about prison rape.

 

Dinh is a horrible human being, but I don't think he deserves that.

[stillhere1900]

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but it makes me really uncomfortable to how glib everyone is about prison rape.

 

Dinh is a horrible human being, but I don't think he deserves that.

 

I agree with you. 

[eXiled]

 

Personally, killer or no killer, I found nothing attractive about Dinh. From the first meeting he exuded oily entitlement wrapped in a prepubescent package.

 

Tiny man, huge ego. He obviously has no empathy, so it's a shame his smarts did not keep him in check. He strikes me as the type that wielded his enormous IQ the way larger men wield their body parts.

[ari333]

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but it makes me really uncomfortable to how glib everyone is about prison rape.

 

Dinh is a horrible human being, but I don't think he deserves that.

 

I thought about that too, but in this case.... well I wish the death penalty were applicable.  But if he has a hard time in prison, I wont cry about it.

[ari333]

ooops

Edited March 1, 2016 by ari333