S32.E05: The Devils We Know

[himela]

^^

1. No one trusts Pete

2. They love the giant

3. There was no alliance between Tai and Anna

 

my 2 cents

1. How do they know whether Peter is trustworthy or not? They just met him!

2. Still the merge is around the corner and the "giant" will be a huge competitor in IICs. Why later and not now?

3. If this is true it is dumb imo. Even if you have some differences in a 6 people tribe starting the game, when you get split up with some people from it you should remain together with whomever you have with you. Look at Aybrey and Joe, they managed to handle Peter and keep their numbers even though they hated him a couple of days ago. Numbers always win.

Edited March 18, 2016 by himela

[piequinn35]

1. Tai said he dislike Pete, how could you trust a person if you dislike him

2. For now they are keeping the giant for the challenges, if he is gone now they are toast

3. Beauty tribe's alliance is with the girls only (+Caleb) Brains thought about the numbers that's why they wanted Anna out, they seem to like Tai coz he could climb trees and get them mangoes lol and he is likable also

and Anna was talking against Tai in that episode, it was Anna vs Tai

if Anna was smarter, she should not have talked to the other players against Tai 

and Tai knew that brains will be voting for Anna

there was a possibility of a tie but Tai saved the idol for himself.

Edited March 18, 2016 by piequinn35

[Ms Blue Jay]

Again, I think Julia kind of torpedoed Anna and Tai with her comments... I don't really blame her.  I think she didn't know how to answer Jeff in the heat of the moment.

 

Magic Julia returning from IEI was seen as some huge benefit to the Beauty Tribe because the losing tribe would immediately gain another Beauty.  And it is a benefit.  So the Brains looked at the Beauties as targets.  They can look as Scot as a non-target because (for the moment) he has no one and no power and can do nothing.  However the unique thing is that Scot looked at Tai as somebody he likes and trusts immediately - that was not expected.

 

Funnily enough I think Tai's exact words might have been -- I don't trust Peter.  He might even have said both I don't like AND I don't trust Peter.  But more than not liking him, he doesn't trust him.  I think that you can trust people you don't like.  There are unlikeable people who are also bad liars :)  And you can even like someone you don't trust!  Untrustworthy people are often charming.  But Tai doesn't like or trust Peter (for this episode at least.)  I loved the scene of Peter piping up before Tribal and Tai immediately turning to him with that look in his eyes, and the voiceover about Tai not trusting The Good Doctor.  The editing was REALLY funny.  

 

Still the merge is around the corner and the "giant" will be a huge competitor in IICs. Why later and not now?

 

Hmm, I don't know if I assume Scot will be an Immunity King.  However, I bet there will be a basketball challenge because I joked about there being one in Cliff's season and lo and behold there was.  :)

 

Numbers always win.

 

Numbers do not always win.  Sometimes Idols win.

 

Can someone remind me what the SuperIdol (two Idols together) does, please?

Edited March 18, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Alapaki]

They are down to 12 after tonight's vote.  With a final 3 that leaves 9 others.  How big is the jury usually?  Doesn't this mean next week is the merge?  I'm not spoiled.  I don't know.  But seems it is about this time in the game they usually do it, right?  So no one should be thinking of some new tribal alliance long term at this point.  Just surviving that TC shown tonight or at most one more challenge and possible (only if you lose) TC before making the merge.

 

 

I was thinking about this as well.  

 

Have they jumbled tribes for only two TCs before the merge before?

 

They should've just had no elimination "last week" given the medical evacuation.  Especially because it would've resulted in saving a player who was obviously on the way out and without hope absent a tribe-switch.  That's what they've done many times in the past (supposedly just coincidentally, I'm sure).

 

And now we find that the double-elimination required them to completely re-configure the tribe-swap, giving one player immunity, and creating a potentially huge wild-card (i.e. the return of that player to the Tribe going to TC this past week) just (presumably) one TC from the Merge.

 

And, as many have speculated, I agree that most players who went to TC this week were taking those things into account in their decision this week.  

Can someone remind me what the SuperIdol (two Idols together) does, please?

 

 

The player who holds both matching pieces can play the Idol after the votes are read.

[himela]

Funnily enough I think Tai's exact words might have been -- I don't trust Peter.  He might even have said both I don't like AND I don't trust Peter. 

Who cares if Tai trusts Peter? All they had to do was vote Scot out. Peter had no reason NOT to do that. So trust issues about this decision have nothing to do with this circumstance.

 

Hmm, I don't know if I assume Scot will be an Immunity King.

Well I do.

 

Numbers do not always win.

 It's Survivor and Survivor IS a game of number ultimately. If you don't think that, then there is no reason to go on with this discussion :)

[Special K]

 It's Survivor and Survivor IS a game of number ultimately. If you don't think that, then there is no reason to go on with this discussion :)

 

Survivor is a game of ____________________________.

                                   (fill in the blank)

[piequinn35]

Numbers do not always win, I remember Survivor Samoa... 

[KimberStormer]

ForeverAlone, on 18 Mar 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

After listening to one of Anna's exit interviews, it cemented my view that Tai did the right thing. She basically said that she continued to distrust Tai, because he took that long to show her the idol in the first place, and if he had saved her with it, she would have voted him out at the soonest opportunity.

 

OK, if this is really the case, then Tai's decision is more understandable.  I'm not sure that Anna would have really voted out Tai that quickly--she would need him while on Yellow Tribe (what's the tribe names now?) and have bigger fish to fry at the merge...but if she really was after him, and not just scrambling, then it might have been a reasonable move.

 

If the girls are really that against Tai, though, he's got a difficult battle ahead of him!  No Beauties except maybe Nick (who does not seem like much of an asset to me), Scot who likes him but likes his idol more...I don't like his chances.  I like Tai, but alienating his tribe to such an extent sounds like pretty terrible Survivor to me.

 

Winston9-DT3, on 18 Mar 2016 - 09:24 AM, said:

I don't follow pro poker but the players I've seen on reality tv so far have not impressed me.  That'd be a guy Survivor in China, Anna, Vanessa on BB and Shannon Elizabeth on DWTS.  None of them seemed particularly perceptive or effectively manipulative.  

 

Do you need to be manipulative on DWTS??  OK maybe this is off-topic but OMG, learning Shannon Elizabeth plays poker for real now is amazing because once long ago I saw her on Celebrity Poker Showdown--the only episode I've ever seen--where she said she'd been badly beaten before and was making an effort to learn how to play.  And she did great, basically single-handedly destroying everyone else, but when it came to final 2 (whatever you call it in poker) against Neil Patrick Harris (at the time he was just washed-up old Doogie Howser to me! and I was like this guy's great, he should have a career again) she visibly lost her nerve and lost.  Fascinating to see she went on with it!

[ljenkins782]

I was thinking about this as well.  

 

Have they jumbled tribes for only two TCs before the merge before?

 

They should've just had no elimination "last week" given the medical evacuation.  Especially because it would've resulted in saving a player who was obviously on the way out and without hope absent a tribe-switch.  That's what they've done many times in the past (supposedly just coincidentally, I'm sure).

 

And now we find that the double-elimination required them to completely re-configure the tribe-swap, giving one player immunity, and creating a potentially huge wild-card (i.e. the return of that player to the Tribe going to TC this past week) just (presumably) one TC from the Merge.

.

I feel like they did that on Season 30? They shuffled the tribes, Jenn idol'ed Kelly out of the game, Hailie went next and then they merged? I could be remembering that wrong though, wasn't one of my favorite seasons. 

 

I feel like they missed a golden opportunity by having that immunity challenge after Caleb was already gone, Alecia getting a new lease on life in a shuffled tribe seems like a great shake-up to me. She could have ratted out Jason's idol possession for one thing. Also, from watching some of the bonus clips about first impressions, it appears that the other tribes noticed the poor treatment Alecia got and were sympathetic to her (and disliked the Brawn guys as a result.) That would have made her integration into a new tribe a bit easier, IMO. 

 

Given that this was an emergency situation that required a reconfiguration of the plan going forward, I can't help but wonder if they would have reconfigured it differently had it been someone they really wanted to save (like if a Boston Rob type of producer favorite was dead in the water and this same medevac scenario happened.) 

[Hera]

I don't follow pro poker but the players I've seen on reality tv so far have not impressed me. That'd be a guy Survivor in China, Anna, Vanessa on BB and Shannon Elizabeth on DWTS. None of them seemed particularly perceptive or effectively manipulative.

I don't fault Tai. I'd rather have an idol and an ally in Scot and possibly Kyle at the merge than no idol and be maybe 4th or 5th beyond the beauty women *if* they got power and decided to keep me even that far.

Zeus reckoned that Jean-Robert (from China) played poker online, where body language is not a factor. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of these professional poker players who find their way onto reality TV shows were the same.

And I completely agree about Tai. As ever, Taj's rule about alliances applies: waiting until right before Tribal Council (and your ass is on the line) is too late. If you want someone's help, you need to talk to them and make them comfortable earlier than that. And there's no reason why Anna couldn't have been cultivating a relationship with Tai while throwing him under the bus to the rest of the tribe. Good players keep their options open like that.

As for tribe numbers and Survivor history: Yes, Blue Collar more or less stayed together right after the merge (though the final had one person from each original tribe, so I wouldn't exactly say they dominated the post-merge game), but Tony won Cagayan by using prople from a mix of the original tribes. However, I think this discussion misses the point that for every winner, there are 9-12 losers (I'm discounting pre-merge boots) who would have been better off changing their strategy, whether it was sticking to the numbers, forming an alliance with people from the other tribe, or "as long as it ain't me". I certainly don't see how Sierra from Worlds Apart was served by sticking with her original tribe. Conversely, I doubt Cochran's flip in his first season got him any further in the game than he would have by sticking with his original tribe.

As for the merge, I suspect they'll do one more tribal council with the mixed tribes and then merge, which was probably the plan all along, but with 14 and then 12 people instead of 13 and 11. I agree they should have skipped tribal council after Caleb's med-evac instead of having to improvise an Exile Island for Julia. The question in my mind is whether or not they'll start the jury at 12 or 11 and whether final tribal council will be a final two or three.

[Hera]

Double post. Sorry about that. Edited March 18, 2016 by Hera

[mojoween]

It amuses me how Jeff always makes a show of the new tribe names at the beginning or whenever there is a merge, and while I know that often times the tribe names, when they are not completely fucking horrific like "Merica" or whatever the hell that was, are honoring the host country, in 32 seasons of this show, I remember Pagong, Ogakor and Koror. And that's it. My brain has refused to remember any other names and I can't figure out why.

Because, as was so succinctly put earlier, any Survivor is better than no Survivor. Out of every show I watch, whether scripted or reality, this is THE ONLY ONE that I watch live every Wednesday. I mean, I haven't even watched last night's America Idol yet so I can't even look at Facebook or Twitter to avoid accidental spoilers.

[Ms Blue Jay]

If the girls are really that against Tai, though, he's got a difficult battle ahead of him!  No Beauties except maybe Nick (who does not seem like much of an asset to me), Scot who likes him but likes his idol more...I don't like his chances.  I like Tai, but alienating his tribe to such an extent sounds like pretty terrible Survivor to me.

 

Do you need to be manipulative on DWTS??  OK maybe this is off-topic but OMG, learning Shannon Elizabeth plays poker for real now is amazing because once long ago I saw her on Celebrity Poker Showdown--[snip]

 

I think Scot really likes Tai!  And Scot doesn't even have an idol!  (Jason does.)  (Oh wait.  You meant TAI's idol, didn't you?)  (Still...)

 

Someone who fancies himself a "great" poker player (who I've beat every time I've played him) always says:  A novice like me can win a game because I don't play how expert poker players play so no one can anticipate my moves or understand any of it.   But over time, I will continue to lose, because I don't really know what I'm doing... 

 

These discussions of "That was a good move" versus "That was a bad move" are always so funny to me. (Though I do enjoy it.)   Do the people who make these predictions end up being right?  I can't think far ahead so I can only think whether a move was good in terms of the current episode and I always just think "Now let's just see what happens (after)."  I can't determine whether Tai made a bad move because I don't know the future, so I'm going to say it was a good one (for the episode.)   It always seems like Survivor has so many unpredictable elements that can change things!  

 

Let's think back.  Jeremy saving Fishbach was seen as Bad Survivor, right?  Yet he won the game..... and that's what ultimately matters, yeah?  

Edited March 18, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[laurakaye]

Because, as was so succinctly put earlier, any Survivor is better than no Survivor. Out of every show I watch, whether scripted or reality, this is THE ONLY ONE that I watch live every Wednesday. I mean, I haven't even watched last night's America Idol yet so I can't even look at Facebook or Twitter to avoid accidental spoilers.

Same here.  I watch it live while recording it.  Then I watch it again the next day in case someone in my family has the audacity to speak to me while I'm watching it the first time.

 

Edited March 18, 2016 by laurakaye

[Special K]

I think Scot really likes Tai! 

 

Yeah.  He said Tai keeps things light and cheerful at camp and "he can do everything."  I think he truly admires him and his knowledge of living rough.

 

Must be quite a relief after the bitter poison that was the original Brawn experience, and being forced to live with someone who can't do anything. :)

[Nashville]

So I take it that Nobama didn't become a doctor out of his overwhelming love for humanity.

  

By and large, ER docs and surgeons are notorious for having absolutely horrible bedside manners - the innate lack of which, I suspect, is the reason many of them become ER docs and surgeons. :) Doctors in those roles generally have the least amount of extended one-on-one time with any given patient; surgeons view them as the (unfortunately) animated repository for the organ(s) on which they're operating, while the ER doc credo is "Treat 'em and street 'em".

No kidding!  It's like [scot] turned into a different person this episode.  I think the dynamic on brawn was awful, and he and Kyle bring out the worst in each other (I'm not excusing the behavior).  This episode, he showed a surprising amount of strategy & knowledge of the game, and I thought him fessing up to his man-crush on Tai was adorable.  Then I felt all icky for Scot making me smile inside, because he was so awful to Alecia.  And I was really impressed at him in the challenge - comparing him to Nick in that challenge to me epitomized the difference between real strength and gym muscle. 

  

Likewise, I was surprised at Scot's lack of bitching about his new Tribemates.

Maybe it's nothing more than a difference in his expectation levels, I dunno.

In any case, I've upgraded him from "asshole" to "cranky uncle" status - for the time being.

I didn't even think about it being a tan/dirt line. I guess that is possible. But it really just looked like you could see her implants.

 

Why, yes.

Yes, you could.

;>

 

Nick as a greek god? like Hephaestus? :>

  

My immediate reaction was more like, "Maybe Pan after a rough weekend...."

In this case I think I'd give him a pass because the 2 old people happen to be rather annoying, overbearing and a bit crazy.

You just described about a dozen of the younger folk as well. What's your point? ;)

  

Tai has no strategy. 3 brain - 2 beauty - 1 brawn + 1 beauty on the way.

 

This means, save the one beauty (Anna) with your idol. Get rid of a brain (Peter).

 

What you have after Julia joins is:

 

3 beauty - 2 brain - 1 brawn

 

Even if you lose the next immunity challenges you still have the numbers to make it to the merge.

 

Am I too smart or is there something I'm missing?

Not something missing, but something taken for granted; framing the three Beauties as a cohesive unit doesn't reflect the Tribe dynamic.

This was amply demonstrated when Probst announced the shuffle - Tai's immediate reaction was "Thank God", and all three Beauty women looked askance at him. Tai knew good and well he was on the outside of that group, and he could expect no "Beauty Strong" loyalty out of them - they'd exploit the relationship so long as it was useful, and discard him immediately as soon as it wasn't. Kinda like a Kleenex.

Consider these points:

• A automatic target was immediately placed on ALL Beauties on both new Tribes the moment a Beauty was singled out for exile/re-entry, and everybody knew it.
• Despite Tai's dislike for Peter, Tai knew there was no point in pursuing a Peter blindside without the numbers - and without the votes of Scot + 1, the numbers simply weren't there.
• When Scot told Tai not to use his idol, Tai was presented with two possible interpretations: either (a) Scot was telling the truth and the target was Anna, or (b) Scot was lying, the target was Tai, and Scot was trying to fake Tai out of playing the idol. Either way, a Beauty was intended for eviction that night.

So - taking into account Scot is either telling the truth or lying, Tai has three options to consider:

• Playing the idol on Anna. If Scot is lying, then the idol use is wasted AND Tai is out the door. If Scot is telling the truth, then (a) Tai preserved a player with no strong loyalty to himself AND has a stronger-bonded ally coming back in (Julia), and (b) Tai has directly antagonized Scot PLUS any of Scot's allies intent on voting out Anna by communicating distrust.
• Playing the idol on himself. If Scot is telling the truth, then the idol use was wasted AND Tai has just burned a bridge with Scot by communicating distrust. If Scot is lying, then Tai is immediately safe; his idol is burned, however, leaving him defenseless for the next TC where Scot and allies know Tai doesn't trust him/them.
• Not playing the idol. If Scot is lying, then Tai is gone. If Scot is telling the truth, however, then (a) Tai has established a loyalty bridge with Scot and Scot's allies upon which Tai might build, (b) a new entrant (Julia) will arrive who would present as a ready-made automatic eviction candidate (further diverting attention from Tai), and (c ) Tai still has a HII in his pocket should things go south - and which should, in all probability, guarantee Tai making it to the merge.

The downside on all three options present Tai with little hope of making it past two TCs at most. On the upsides, however, Option 3 - trusting Scot and not playing the idol - is the only option which holds out hope for life beyond two TCs. So I think Tai picked wisely.

[KimberStormer]

Hera, on 18 Mar 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

And I completely agree about Tai. As ever, Taj's rule about alliances applies: waiting until right before Tribal Council (and your ass is on the line) is too late. If you want someone's help, you need to talk to them and make them comfortable earlier than that. And there's no reason why Anna couldn't have been cultivating a relationship with Tai while throwing him under the bus to the rest of the tribe. Good players keep their options open like that.

As for tribe numbers and Survivor history: Yes, Blue Collar more or less stayed together right after the merge (though the final had one person from each original tribe, so I wouldn't exactly say they dominated the post-merge game), but Tony won Cagayan by using prople from a mix of the original tribes. However, I think this discussion misses the point that for every winner, there are 9-12 losers (I'm discounting pre-merge boots) who would have been better off changing their strategy, whether it was sticking to the numbers, forming an alliance with people from the other tribe, or "as long as it ain't me". I certainly don't see how Sierra from Worlds Apart was served by sticking with her original tribe. Conversely, I doubt Cochran's flip in his first season got him any further in the game than he would have by sticking with his original tribe.

 

Sierra should have flipped, yes, but not until the time was right. I don't know exactly when that was because I stopped watching that season.  Cochran to me is a cautionary tale of flipping too soon: he ended up exactly where anyone could have predicted, as soon as the rest of his tribe was gone.  (I blame Ozzy & Co more for that one, since they could have given him the necklace, but anyway.)  I mean that's a Redemption Island season and it's weird but theoretically he and Dawn could have flipped on Savaii circa final 9, maybe drag Edna (the lowest on the Upolu totem pole) to the end like they eventually did with Sherri.  (Though in reality I think Ozzy would probably have won the game either by pure immunity wins or by Redemption Island duels, without Sophie there.)

 

I do agree Anna should have stuck with Tai, and fostered a better relationship with him.

 

  

So - taking into account Scot is either telling the truth or lying, Tai has three options to consider:

• Playing the idol on Anna. If Scot is lying, then the idol use is wasted AND Tai is out the door. If Scot is telling the truth, then (a) Tai preserved a player with no strong loyalty to himself AND has a stronger-bonded ally coming back in (Julia), and (b) Tai has directly antagonized Scot PLUS any of Scot's allies intent on voting out Anna by communicating distrust.
• Playing the idol on himself. If Scot is telling the truth, then the idol use was wasted AND Tai has just burned a bridge with Scot by communicating distrust. If Scot is lying, then Tai is immediately safe; his idol is burned, however, leaving him defenseless for the next TC where Scot and allies know Tai doesn't trust him/them.
• Not playing the idol. If Scot is lying, then Tai is gone. If Scot is telling the truth, however, then (a) Tai has established a loyalty bridge with Scot and Scot's allies upon which Tai might build, (b) a new entrant (Julia) will arrive who would present as a ready-made automatic eviction candidate (further diverting attention from Tai), and (c ) Tai still has a HII in his pocket should things go south - and which should, in all probability, guarantee Tai making it to the merge.

The downside on all three options present Tai with little hope of making it past two TCs at most. On the upsides, however, Option 3 - trusting Scot and not playing the idol - is the only option which holds out hope for life beyond two TCs. So I think Tai picked wisely.

 

 

See I just look at Option 1 differently.  First of all, as we know, I don't care about trust when there's need.  Scot would need Tai at that point, he can grumble about it but Beauty would have the numbers at Yellow Tribe and also at the merge, and it would be cutting of the nose to spite the face if he was unwilling to work with Tai then.  I mean, force rocks and risk going home just for that?  Scot's not that dumb.  But I also don't think he would have been mad in the first place.  Tai had already told him about the idol and the possibility of using it.  Since it would have worked, he couldn't really blame him for doing it.  I think Scot would have to admit that it was Tai's idol and his decision.  Also, if Scot is lying, playing the idol on Anna and going home anyway means exactly the same thing as not playing it, except he doesn't have the souvenir to bring home.  The idol is no use to you at Ponderosa!  Anna has no strong loyalty to him, fine, but she has tribal loyalty to him (plus, he would have just saved her ass!  Remember Fishbach?  "No way I'm going to not stick with Jeremy now", all that), no loyalty at all to anyone not on the Beauty tribe, and they have the numbers.

 

To me Option 2 is clearly worst, Option 3 is not much better, and Option 1 the best choice.  It's something like Parvati's famous move in HvV; Jerri and Sandra were not especially loyal to Parv, but they needed her and she needed them, so she saved her tribe and dominated the game.  That was a 2-tribe season and I admit things are a little different then, but even in 3-tribe seasons, things mostly break down along tribal lines.  On Gabon and on Second Chances, there were so many swaps pre-merge that tribes kind of disappeared, so those are the exceptions, perhaps.

 

These discussions of "That was a good move" versus "That was a bad move" are always so funny to me. (Though I do enjoy it.)   Do the people who make these predictions end up being right?  I can't think far ahead so I can only think whether a move was good in terms of the current episode and I always just think "Now let's just see what happens (after)."  I can't determine whether Tai made a bad move because I don't know the future, so I'm going to say it was a good one (for the episode.)   It always seems like Survivor has so many unpredictable elements that can change things!  

 

Let's think back.  Jeremy saving Fishbach was seen as Bad Survivor, right?  Yet he won the game..... and that's what ultimately matters, yeah?  

 

They're funny but so much fun!  I hate arguing in general, it makes me miserable and ruins my day, but I love arguing about Survivor, because a) it means nothing, there are no stakes at all, it's completely irrelevant to anything (unlike politics or whatever) and b) I am always right!  It's just a fun intellectual puzzle to ponder.  (Jeremy won, yes, and unanimously...but I still think it would have been better to not save Fishbach!)

[peachmangosteen]

I hope this (and all similar comments about Tai moving on to Scot quickly) is a joke.  Tai has mentioned that he has a boyfriend back home, plus he knows that Caleb and Scot are straight, so he's just looking for new friends/alliance members.

 

Tai literally said he wanted to kiss Caleb. He definitely had a crush on him. It was cute but with a smidge of creepy imo.

 

Who cares if Tai trusts Peter? All they had to do was vote Scot out. Peter had no reason NOT to do that. 

 

It appeared that Peter put off the vibe that he was not going to vote against the other Brains, so I don't think Anna/Tai/Scot had any reason to believe Peter would vote with them against the other Brains. Which is very bizarre, but it seems like Peter, being that he's a narcissist, thinks he's the head of the Brains tribe so I guess that's why he didn't try to break away from a group that obviously doesn't like or trust him. But also it's pretty clear a lot of people just kinda distrust/dislike Peter immediately upon meeting him, which I find amazing and hilarious.

 

I hate arguing in general, it makes me miserable and ruins my day, but I love arguing about Survivor, because a) it means nothing, there are no stakes at all, it's completely irrelevant to anything (unlike politics or whatever) and b) I am always right!  It's just a fun intellectual puzzle to ponder.  (Jeremy won, yes, and unanimously...but I still think it would have been better to not save Fishbach!)

 

This!

 

This episode really made them having a boot after Caleb was medevaced even weirder to me. Because they did that they had to completely change their swap plans and create that new makeshift EI twist, which ultimately completely fucked over an entire alliance that was dominating. And having Alecia there at the swap would've created so much organic drama. Very weird choice there imo.

Edited March 18, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[violet and green]

There were other options than what happened and I'm curious to know how come these options were not taken into consideration - or why, if they were, we were not shown of them.

 

1) Tai and Anna forces with Scot and Peter (who is at the bottom of the brains alliance anyway and bitter about it) and vote out useless in challenges Joe.

2) 5 people vote out the lone wolf Scot.

3) Tai - Anna - Scot vote out one of the three brains and use the idol to do that.

 

There were other options to be sure. But the emphasis was always on the numbers. Having lost immunity, they knew whoever left would be replaced by a Beauty member. This would make their team Beauty-heavy, if they voted out a Brain, and once the merge came the tribe would be Beauty-heavy. Because Tai knew the Beauty women were going to target either him or Nick (before the tribe swap) if they lost immunity, he had more reason to not want a Beauty member saved. And Anna underlined this point by running around like a really obvious person rather than a credible professional poker player saying loudly Tai has an idol.

 

Both Peter and Scot are strong men, one would assume - Scot certainly is - so they need them to a degree for challenges. Tai is a good provider and pleasant to be around. I can see lots of reaons to keep those three men, and I like Joe so I am glad they didn't float his name, to my knowledge. They could have tried to target Aubrey. It's all numbers and who is expendable and who has your back. Anna certainly didn't have Tai's back. Big mistake, in my opinion. Bad read. Meh, I'm glad she'd gone.

 

I think Tai did the right thing. There was never going to be an advantage to him in saving Anna by losing his idol, and then having Julia come back in and join forces with her old alliance member and vote him out. They gave him no reason to believe they would work with him in the new tribe or come the merge, so... Auf!

[Ms Blue Jay]

They're funny but so much fun!  I hate arguing in general, it makes me miserable and ruins my day, but I love arguing about Survivor, because a) it means nothing, there are no stakes at all, it's completely irrelevant to anything (unlike politics or whatever) and b) I am always right!  It's just a fun intellectual puzzle to ponder.  (Jeremy won, yes, and unanimously...but I still think it would have been better to not save Fishbach!)

 

And I love reading them even though a lot of the "speculation/good move/bad move talk" goes over my head.  If you released a book on Survivor I would buy it.

[Nashville]

See I just look at Option 1 differently.  First of all, as we know, I don't care about trust when there's need.  Scot would need Tai at that point, he can grumble about it but Beauty would have the numbers at Yellow Tribe and also at the merge, and it would be cutting of the nose to spite the face if he was unwilling to work with Tai then.  I mean, force rocks and risk going home just for that?  Scot's not that dumb.

 

 I believe I see what you're saying, but I don't agree with it.  :)  Two primary reasons:

1. This interpretation might be true if this were a strictly Tai/Scott issue, but it's not.  In betraying his agreed-on strategy with Scot, Tai hasn't just betrayed Scot - Tai has betrayed Scot plus the remaining two Brains with whom Scot had coordinated votes based on Tai's promise.  This is much more problematic for Tai than one guy who has no choice but to sit and grumble - Tai just proved his lack of trustworthiness to half his remaining Tribe.
2. The statement "Beauty would have the numbers at Yellow Tribe" is questionable.  Beauty would have the most numbers of any one preexisting Tribe, it is true - but Beauty would NOT have a controlling majority.  The three Beauties would constitute 50% of the resulting Yellow Tribe, which would be a tie with (or deadlock against) the remaining 2 Brains + 1 Brawn should they choose to ally - and why wouldn't they, considering one Beauty conspired with another Beauty to betray them?  And don't forget - Tai's old idol is now back in play, which could shift the power balance significantly.

[KimberStormer]

Nashville, on 18 Mar 2016 - 11:18 PM, said:

 

1. The statement "Beauty would have the numbers at Yellow Tribe" is questionable.  Beauty would have the most numbers of any one preexisting Tribe, it is true - but Beauty would NOT have a controlling majority.  The three Beauties would constitute 50% of the resulting Yellow Tribe, which would be a tie with (or deadlock against) the remaining 2 Brains + 1 Brawn should they choose to ally - and why wouldn't they, considering one Beauty conspired with another Beauty to betray them?  And don't forget - Tai's old idol is now back in play, which could shift the power balance significantly.

 

 

Numbers because Scot would vote with them.  As far as I'm concerned, he would have no choice.  If it's a tie, it's vote with Beauty or go to rocks.  Why on earth would Scot do something so crazy as rocks to save some random Brains he's barely met?  Instead of playing with Tai, the guy who he likes personally, and surviving to the merge when he can hopefully use his in with the Beauties, his Brawn tribemates, his knowledge of Cupcake's idol, and his considerable physical strength in challenges to flip the game then?  That would be pure crazy-town.  I give Shirin a pass on hitching her wagon to a sinking ship (to mix some metaphors) because the Blue Collars were odious and the White Collars treated her like garbage; but the Beauties are not like that.  He has a self-confessed man-crush on Tai, and the rest of the Beauties are, as far as we can tell, pretty nice.  Why risk going home for people he seems to have no personal connection with, who can offer him nothing in the game?

 

Really, if Tai had played that idol on Anna (she mused) it would have been smart for the Beauties and Scot to throw the next challenge and get rid of Aubry or Joe (I would probably pick Aubry, who is playing, I think, one of the best if not the best game right now).  Beauties to protect Nick and Michelle, who are in deep doo-doo and would be even moreso if Peter had gone out, and Scot to protect not only Cydney and Cupcake but also any possibility of Cupcake burning his idol.

 

Tai's idol being put back into play, though, is a good point; Joe and Aubry would be scrambling like crazy for it no doubt.  But Scot and Tai are the ones who know what's involved in getting one; I like their chances better than the guy who thinks the twist is there is no idol.  In a way, Tai using his idol might be better for Scot, maybe?  Opening up the possibility of him getting one, and Wonder Twin Power Activating with Cupcake if necessary?  Not that I think that idea should have influenced his play or anything.  I'm just thinking up all kinds of counterfactuals and what-ifs because this episode was boring and it's my day off and I'm procrastinating on all my chores.

[weaver]

The only thing I liked about this episode was brainiac Dr. Peter staring helplessly at the puzzles pieces while Neal and Debbie cruised to the win.  

Edited March 19, 2016 by weaver

[Lamima]

The only thing I liked about this episode was brainiac Dr. Peter staring helplessly at the puzzles pieces while Neal and Debbie cruised to the win.  

Maybe the good doc was distracted by the nip slip (wasn't Anna doing the puzzle with him?).

[himela]

I was listening to RHAP and there was a very smart woman there talking about Anna saying something really interesting that I am not sure has been mentioned here': her bad gameplay. She was saying that there are three phases in the game, the first tribe phase, the swap and the after merge period. A good player does their best to be in a good position in all three of them. What Anna did was being confident in her three women beauty alliance and not work with the rest of the people in her tribe and mostly after Caleb left the game. Lets see how Debbie is playing that shows us the difference: she orchestrated a great blindsight against Liz and made herself come into a strong 4 people alliance BUT she was careful to keep Peter's possible bitterness under control by comforting him and apparently she was the only one who did this. Aubrey and Joe in the other hand behaved to him badly after the swap and as Rob said it was like they told him "just go play until the grown ups decide what to do and we'll inform you". It was a miracle that Peter did not align with Scot and the beauties and vote one of the brains out tbh. So regarding Anna I too find that she felt too comfortable in her three people alliance and didn't try to create relationships with the rest of her tribe while knowing that a tribe swap was a huge possibility. After the swap she didn't try enough to take herself out of the hard situation and turn the table against another person in her tribe. I know she may have done some things but she apparently could have done MORE, something that would make her an amazing player rather than a bluh one.

[himela]

It appeared that Peter put off the vibe that he was not going to vote against the other Brains, so I don't think Anna/Tai/Scot had any reason to believe Peter would vote with them against the other Brains.

I never suggested that Peter votes against the brains. I suggested that they all vote out Scot who is a big threat after the merge.

 

Because Tai knew the Beauty women were going to target either him or Nick (before the tribe swap) if they lost immunity, he had more reason to not want a Beauty member saved. And Anna underlined this point by running around like a really obvious person rather than a credible professional poker player saying loudly Tai has an idol.

What I don't understand is why you think that Tai will end the game in a better position than 4th (after Julia - Anna - Michele) if he chooses to follow new alliances. I mean, if he keeps his 5 member beauty tribe alliance and they supposedly make it to the end, the best position he ends with is 4th. If he happens to win that IIC he has a place in the final tribal council. This is why I say and insist that numbers always win.

[Superpole2000]

These discussions of "That was a good move" versus "That was a bad move" are always so funny to me. (Though I do enjoy it.)   Do the people who make these predictions end up being right?  I can't think far ahead so I can only think whether a move was good in terms of the current episode and I always just think "Now let's just see what happens (after)."  I can't determine whether Tai made a bad move because I don't know the future, so I'm going to say it was a good one (for the episode.)   It always seems like Survivor has so many unpredictable elements that can change things!

It sometimes bugs me because Survivor is a game so heavily dependent on luck. To an extent, you can make some of your own luck, but mostly, you are at the mercy of what other people want to do. You can be a logical person with a great eye for strategy, but if the rest of the group floats your name out there then you're almost stuck.

 

Back to this episode, if Tai's tribemates decided to blindside him, he would have looked like a terrible player since he would have gone home with an idol in his shoe. He trusted his tribe wouldn't pick him, and he was lucky that what they were telling him was the truth.

 

Anna, on the other hand, was told a plan that was a lie. She was screwed over by the tribe mixup and the paranoia over too many ex-Beauties sticking around. That doesn't necessarily mean she was a bad player...just similar to the majority of Survivor players, who can't change what the majority has its mind set to do.

[Ms Blue Jay]

If Anna is a poker player, and that's her occupation, one of the things that's a good requirement to being a good poker player is knowing when people are lying!  Those castaways are spending 24/7 with each other -- all day, hour upon hour, with nothing to do but talk.

 

In Survivor, you have to prepare for lies. She was shocked and blindsided.  #Blindsides are such a big part of the game.  You have to expect that they will and could happen.  It's not just luck.  It's a skill of reading people.   Tai trusted Scot and read him a certain way, and he was successful at it.  Anna talked a big game of being so hot or whatever that she'd be able to distract people and do well at the game.  It didn't really happen except for the aforementioned example of possibly screwing up her teammate Peter at the fish puzzle, which looked really easy to me (I wonder if it was as easy as it looked.)

Edited March 19, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[himela]

Anna, on the other hand, was told a plan that was a lie.

This is what I'm saying. A good player should be able to adjust and turn the wheel in a way so that they are not in a position to even be blindsided in the first place. You want out me or Tai? Well guess what, I want out one of the four of you and I'll try my best to achieve that. even if I fail in the end, I will have tried. Plus Anna was told a plan that was a lie because she could not play the social game with ALL of her tribe and not only the girls + Caleb. She should be (or act) close to Tai and Nick as well. If that had happened Tai would not feel the need to search for allies elsewhere just like Aubrey and Joe did. He would feel secure in his 2 people (that was going to be 3 soon) alliance and he would work with Anna to kick out one of the brains or Scot. But she was so clueless that she admitted she was planning to gun for Tai after the merge because she was mad he had never mentioned his idol before. Well girl, you had a 4 person alliance and didn't care for Tai before and after the swap first thing you do is throw him under the bus. Why would he care to include you to his secret?

[ShadowSixx]

In Survivor, you have to prepare for lies. She was shocked and blindsided.  #Blindsides are such a big part of the game.  You have to expect that they will and could happen.  It's not just luck.  It's a skill of reading people.   Tai trusted Scot and read him a certain way, and he was successful at it.  Anna talked a big game of being so hot or whatever that she'd be able to distract people and do well at the game.  It didn't really happen except for the aforementioned example of possibly screwing up her teammate Peter at the fish puzzle, which looked really easy to me (I wonder if it was as easy as it looked.)

 

Puzzle had to be easy since Neal and Debbie blazed through it in no time.

[KimberStormer]

Ms Blue Jay, on 19 Mar 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

If Anna is a poker player, and that's her occupation, one of the things that's a good requirement to being a good poker player is knowing when people are lying!  

 

In poker, you have more and different information to detect lies.  People who play online can tell when someone's bluffing, somehow, through that electronic medium with no body language, expression, voice, anything like that, just cards and bets.  I don't really think it's the same skill.

 

Anyway it's not like Tai came up with this "take out Peter with my idol" to fool Anna.  He just wanted to take out Peter with his idol, but changed his mind.  I wouldn't really call that a lie or a blindside.  There was no reason for Anna to suspect he was lying because the whole thing, if it had been a ploy, would make no sense at all!  What would be the benefit to Tai of showing Anna his idol, if he was trying to fool her and get her out, when she would just go out anyway whether she was fooled or un-fooled? 

[ForeverAlone]

Tai was serious when he first presented his plan to Anna (less than an hour before tribal, so it's not like this was the plan all along), but changed his mind after talking to Scot. I think Tai only presented his plan, because he thought he was the one in danger. But once he decided to trust Scot that he wasn't in danger, it makes sense that he would side with the majority and vote out Anna. It would be one thing if Tai and Anna had an alliance before, but they never did. Tai always felt on the outs with the women alliance. Hell, that is one of the reasons he looked for the idol- to protect himself, since he felt he would be targeted. Why work with Anna when he is not at risk, and they never actually worked together? Even if the Beauties did have the numbers, I can't see Anna keeping Tai around for long. She had no desire to be in an actual alliance with him. 

[violet and green]

What I don't understand is why you think that Tai will end the game in a better position than 4th (after Julia - Anna - Michele) if he chooses to follow new alliances. I mean, if he keeps his 5 member beauty tribe alliance and they supposedly make it to the end, the best position he ends with is 4th. If he happens to win that IIC he has a place in the final tribal council. This is why I say and insist that numbers always win.

 

He was never in an alliance with the three women. He was certainly not in an alliance with Anna, one of those three women - or she would not have run around trying to throw him under a bus (badly).

 

I have never said, also, that I think Tai will end the game in a better position than 4th - because it has never crossed my mind he was in an alliance with those three women and was never therefore the fourth in that non-existant alliance!

[himela]

He was never in an alliance with the three women. He was certainly not in an alliance with Anna, one of those three women - or she would not have run around trying to throw him under a bus (badly).

 

I have never said, also, that I think Tai will end the game in a better position than 4th - because it has never crossed my mind he was in an alliance with those three women and was never therefore the fourth in that non-existant alliance!

Which alliance do you (or does he at this point) consider stronger? The one with the beauty tribe that sure had its ups and downs and he was No 4 in it or a NONEXISTENT alliance that has not yet formed and he has no idea whether it will ever be formed? I mean, Tai at this point has either his beauty tribe alliance or NO allies at all. A bad alliance made by need is way better than none at all. This is what I'm saying. And I'm sure that the beauty tribe would prefer to have him in their alliance after merge rather than find new people to recruit to have the numbers.

[violet and green]

Which alliance do you (or does he at this point) consider stronger? The one with the beauty tribe that sure had its ups and downs and he was No 4 in it or a NONEXISTENT alliance that has not yet formed and he has no idea whether it will ever be formed? I mean, Tai at this point has either his beauty tribe alliance or NO allies at all. A bad alliance made by need is way better than none at all. This is what I'm saying. And I'm sure that the beauty tribe would prefer to have him in their alliance after merge rather than find new people to recruit to have the numbers.

 

The fact that Anna immediately targeted him disproves your statements. I am sorry - are you upset Anna is out and looking to blame someone for it??

[himela]

The fact that Anna immediately targeted him disproves your statements.

Anna tried to throw Tai under the bus cause the turn the game had taken - the beauties were the targets because of the twist that Julia would join the tribe that would lose a member - and Anna knew it was her or Tai so she tried to save herself. This doesn't mean that in normal circumstances the beauty tribe didn't have the potential to stick together till the end. But this would only happen if Anna and the beauty girls were smart enough to create a good alliance with both Tai and Nick except with only one another. This was Anna's fault and she paid the price.

 

 

I am sorry - are you upset Anna is out and looking to blame someone for it??

In fact the opposite happens. I made 2-3 posts saying how bad of a player Anna was because I am upset that many people had picked her for the winner (mostly based on her looks apparently).

[Nashville]

Numbers because Scot would vote with them. 

 

This "them" is the primary difference in how we view this specific set of dynamics; you believe there is a "them", and I do not.

You view the preexisting Beauty association as a strong binder between Tai and the women - strong enough that Tai should have considered it to be in his own best interests to sacrifice his idol to protect Anna, in the expectation that Tai, Anna and Julia would thereafter go forward Beauty Strong. 

IMHO everything we've seen in the broadcast, however, indicates the exact opposite. 

• Tai stated he felt totally excluded from the Anna/Julia/Michele alliance. 
• Tai thanked God when the mix was announced - vocally, and within earshot of the Three - all of whom reacted negatively to his comment. 
• Tai knew Anna was throwing him under the bus to the rest of Yellow, just as he was doing the same to her.
• Tai apparently pursued NO pre-TC discussions with Anna until the 11th hour, when he was pitching the Dr. DoLittle strategy as an alternative to the Beauty bullseye already on Tai's own back.

What part of any of this indicates Tai possessing any degree of loyalty to his former Beauty team mates?  I don't think including Anna in the Peter proposition qualifies; Tai included her not out of loyalty, but because he knew her interests aligned with his own in diffusing the Beauty Bullseye both wore. 

Plus - preserving Anna to rejoin with Julia simply means that come Tribal Merge, he would be creating the opportunity for them to rejoin with Michele and reconstitute their previous Alliance - you know, the one from which Tai had already been excluded once.  How would supporting the re-establishment of that alliance benefit Tai?

 

I maintain Tai made the correct choice for him.  Protecting Anna would ultimately benefit the Three, not Tai.  Conversely, eliminating Anna advances Tai's options for establishing a new alliance with Scot and others AND diminishes an alliance which had already previously rejected Tai for inclusion.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Nashville

[himela]

@Nashville I agree with you because this is what we have been shown. BUT this doesn't mean that good players should not put their problems aside and align so that they target a common enemy, just like the three brains did. We have been shown that Aubrey and Joe hate Peter but it was obvious to them that after the swap they MUST align. So Tai and Anna should forget the problems of the past and come together to save themselves and the best alliance they at that point had: the (problematic if you wish) beauty tribe. If and when the time would come that everyone else had left and Tai was in the 4th place after the three girls he would find a solution to work his way into the final three - for example win immunity. This plan is not perfect for Tai but it is better than no other plan if he loses hus beauty tribe.

[himela]

But why is it assumed smarter to align with people on your original tribe over people on your new tribe?  If you are Aubry and you KNOW you don't trust Peter, or you're Tai and you know you don't trust Anna, why not reform an alliance with a new tribe member that seems more trustworthy and more likely to be a long-term ally to you (as Tai seems to have done with Scot)?  

 

This is a good question and I can only reply from my point of view. I prefer to take the safe path rather than risk the unknown and fail. How do I know that the new alliance I form don't tell me that I should trust them and they don't go back to their original tribe after the merge? For this to work both new alliances should remain trustworthy after the merge. If one does and the other doesn't, then the people in the one that does are screwed. The best solution not to risk that is that both groups follow their original alliance and play it safe. This means we get a boring game though but I'm talking about a better strategic game here and not an interesting one.

[KimberStormer]

Aubry said it at tribal, pointedly referencing Peter, it seemed to me.  (If Tai had taken out Peter with his idol, would even the Brains really mind?  Again I think you can't really say it's "betrayal" to save your own tribemate, and Peter is a jerk who nobody likes.)

 

I meant to say this before, but basically I think if Tai doesn't believe he can count on his tribe at all (and they would be willing to suicidally sacrifice their own numbers to get rid of him at the merge) then I think he too much doubts his own social skills.  He immediately decided he was on the outs and had to get the idol, and now assumes they'll get rid of him, but he's succeeded in charming everyone he's played with so far, as far as I can tell.  He's not in an RC situation, where Tandang's leaders Pete and Abi disliked her so much they basically torpedoed their own game for no reason to get rid of her.  I think he could count on the fact that he would be needed as a number, and would have nothing to worry about.

 

(If he's really #4 in his alliance, he doesn't need to try to win immunity at F4.  He needs to flip at F7.  At this point in the game, keeping people who he can work with at that point might be worth fighting for--but Peter is assuredly not one of those people.)

[Nashville]

But why is it assumed smarter to align with people on your original tribe over people on your new tribe?  If you are Aubry and you KNOW you don't trust Peter, or you're Tai and you know you don't trust Anna, why not reform an alliance with a new tribe member that seems more trustworthy and more likely to be a long-term ally to you (as Tai seems to have done with Scot)?  

 

I figure we have a tiny bit of info the players themselves don't (from confessionals) but they have a whole world of info we don't (from unaired events) so if a player trusts X more than Y, it's hard for us to conclude they screwed up, outside of absolute evidence from confessionals.  If anything the confessional evidence we have backs up Tai's decision-- that Anna was not trustworthy and that Scot is.

  

Thank you, Winston9-DT3; this was exactly the point I was trying to make.

Pre-mix, Tai had ZERO strong primary relationships on Beauty once Caleb left.

Post-mix, Tai has strong potential for a primary relationship with Scot and significant potential for a primary or secondary relationship with Aubry (Peter too, but at this point I suspect Peter has already attained Goat status among his peers).

When Tai has the opportunity to significantly enhance his relationships in the game, why should he sacrifice that - plus a HII - to preserve a relationship which offered him nothing before? Last I checked his name was Tai, not Erik. ;)

This is a good question and I can only reply from my point of view. I prefer to take the safe path rather than risk the unknown and fail.

Not saying it isn't a viable strategy - but I don't think it's a winning strategy.

IMHO this game usually requires a player at some point to jettison safety, take a leap of faith, and hope for a little luck to win - make an honest-to-God Big Move, and not one that's simply flash for the cameras.

There's a name for the ones who don't - Jurors. :)

How do I know that the new alliance I form don't tell me that I should trust them and they don't go back to their original tribe after the merge? For this to work both new alliances should remain trustworthy after the merge. If one does and the other doesn't, then the people in the one that does are screwed. The best solution not to risk that is that both groups follow their original alliance and play it safe. This means we get a boring game though but I'm talking about a better strategic game here and not an interesting one.

I guess this is our sticking point. IMHO Tai did not have any kind of alliance with the other Beauties; he had an association, which is a different thing entirely. There was only one alliance in Beauty - the Three - and Tai wasn't a part of it.

This was more than validated by Anna's actions after Yellow lost the IC; her sole TC strategy was to throw Tai under the bus so hard and so repeatedly the poor guy probably had a Greyhound logo permanently imprinted on his ass. Anna jumped at Tai's let's-get-Peter proposal not because she felt allied with Tai, but because it was good for her strategically; it required nothing on her part other than a vote, it temporarily shifted attention away from the Beauty Bullseye, it brought back into the tribe a player with whom Anna did have an alliance, and it stripped of his idol protection another player for whom she felt no great loyalty.

[SVNBob]

angkor beach is so cursed!

And this is Survivor, where curses are real.  The Car Curse, the "Survivor Gods" snuffing torches during the first season, etc.  And I'm pretty sure it was the Brawn tribe that created this curse.

 

Unless this was the beach that was to house the French Survivor contestant who died, or was the beach that they held the competition that presumably triggered his cardiac arrest.  Then that started the curse.

[laurakaye]

Puzzle had to be easy since Neal and Debbie blazed through it in no time.

True, but maybe Debbie has a Master's Degree in Puzzle-Doing that we don't yet know about.:)

[K2DangerGirl]

Tai literally said he wanted to kiss Caleb. He definitely had a crush on him. It was cute but with a smidge of creepy imo.

I agree, in the sense that if a more physically imposing person were trying to "steal kisses" from another player of either gender, I think a lot more discussion (and disapproval) would be taking place.  I generally like Tai but I got a little squicked out they way he talked about Caleb.

[fishcakes]

True, but maybe Debbie has a Master's Degree in Puzzle-Doing that we don't yet know about.:)

 

She did tell us in the first episode that puzzles lie down for her like lovers. I remember because that was my first, "please stop talking, Debbie" of the season.

[laurakaye]

She did tell us in the first episode that puzzles lie down for her like lovers. I remember because that was my first, "please stop talking, Debbie" of the season.

Oh, how could I forget that disturbing bit of mental imagery?  So she is also a "Puzzle Temptress."  

[blackwing]

1. How do they know whether Peter is trustworthy or not? They just met him!

I think it's because of the way he talks to people and the way he carries himself.  I "met" him on the first episode and within 2 minutes I decided I didn't like him.  In a game where first impressions are very important, it seems he doesn't give very good ones.

 

I agree, in the sense that if a more physically imposing person were trying to "steal kisses" from another player of either gender, I think a lot more discussion (and disapproval) would be taking place.  I generally like Tai but I got a little squicked out they way he talked about Caleb.

Fully agreed, I thought it was funny and creepy at the same time.  Immediately after Caleb got evacced, Tai was sobbing and Jeffy asked him how he was feeling or something like that, and Tai's response was something to the effect of "on the first night, I cuddled with him".  Which I found a bit odd, it wasn't "I hope he is going to be OK" or even the selfish "how is our tribe going to survive now without our muscle".  It was "I'm going to miss having his strong arms around me and holding his firm body".  I haven't followed any of Caleb's post evac comments, has he mentioned if he and Tai are still close?  I feel for Tai.... Caleb is the popular jock in high school who is always surrounded by friends and pretty people.  Tai is the loner who is "different".  Just as Caleb said, he and Tai would never be friends in the real world, but they found a friendship in the limited world of Survivor.  I'd be curious what their relationship is now.  I feel like Tai is going to expect too much from Caleb, that he will be Caleb's buddy like they were on Survivor, and I'm not sure if Caleb is going to feel the same.

 

Regarding Julia and the supposed Curse of Angkor Beach.   I'm not so sure if that's fair to the beach.  I agree that it sucks for her that she got unlucky and was the person chosen to spend three days by herself.  But much of her suffering was because of her own failings.  She apparently always relied on others to start the fire, and never bothered to practice herself.  If I was picked to be on Survivor, working with flint would be one of the first things I would learn, especially since if there is a rare tie and a fire making challenge, it could keep me in the game.  Without a fire, she couldn't boil water, and I'm not sure if she drank the water straight from the well or not.  And wouldn't there also have been at least a little bit of food at that beach?  I know Brawn sucks, but I would think they could have collected fruit or something.  What were they eating the whole time?

 

If she had faith in her teammates and her alliance, then she shouldn't have been as concerned.  She could have looked at it as a free pass to the next round, and hope her alliance survives and then she rejoins them next time.  Instead, she torpedoed all of the Beauty contestants with her comments.  

[LanceM]

 

Regarding Julia and the supposed Curse of Angkor Beach.   I'm not so sure if that's fair to the beach.  I agree that it sucks for her that she got unlucky and was the person chosen to spend three days by herself.  But much of her suffering was because of her own failings.  She apparently always relied on others to start the fire, and never bothered to practice herself.  If I was picked to be on Survivor, working with flint would be one of the first things I would learn, especially since if there is a rare tie and a fire making challenge, it could keep me in the game.  Without a fire, she couldn't boil water, and I'm not sure if she drank the water straight from the well or not.  And wouldn't there also have been at least a little bit of food at that beach?  I know Brawn sucks, but I would think they could have collected fruit or something.  What were they eating the whole time?

 

If she had faith in her teammates and her alliance, then she shouldn't have been as concerned.  She could have looked at it as a free pass to the next round, and hope her alliance survives and then she rejoins them next time.  Instead, she torpedoed all of the Beauty contestants with her comments.  

 

Actually this is not true. In her secret scene this week she mentions that fire should not be an issue for her because she was able to make one previously on the Beauty beach. 

 

I also doubt Julia's comments torpedoed anything. Anyone with half a brain and who could do simple math could figure out that whichever tribe lost voting out a Beauty was the smartest thing to do.  

Edited March 21, 2016 by LanceM

[Rick Kitchen]

 

Just as Caleb said, he and Tai would never be friends in the real world, but they found a friendship in the limited world of Survivor.  I'd be curious what their relationship is now.  I feel like Tai is going to expect too much from Caleb, that he will be Caleb's buddy like they were on Survivor, and I'm not sure if Caleb is going to feel the same.

 

Tai retweeted a really nasty homophobic post that somebody had made threatening him if they meet on the streets of San Francisco, and Caleb told him not to let it bother him because the world loves him 

[methodwriter85]

I've never ben so bored with a Survivor season.

At least the original Brains vs. Brawn vs. Beauty season had Spencer and Tasha struggling to survive against the odds, although in that season, it got boring how obvious it was that Tony was going to win.