The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[Julia]

I suspect this was released the way it was because of the long weekend, and pretty much no-one paying attention to the news. I also think that after they see how Mike Huckabee is reaping the whirlwind over this, very few of the usual suspects are going to come in on the side of the Duggars.

In a way, it kind of makes me respect Huckabee a bit more (granted, that's a bit more than practically not at all). I'm pretty sure the folks (and corporations) who supported the Duggars financially did their homework about the Duggars' legal troubles. That they're running away now doesn't make them better people.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Julia

[questionfear]

I suspect this was released the way it was because of the long weekend, and pretty much no-one paying attention to the news. I also think that after they see how Mike Huckabee is reaping the whirlwind over this, very few of the usual suspects are going to come in on the side of the Duggars.

In a way, it kind of makes me respect Huckabee a bit more (granted, that's a bit more than practically not at all). I'm pretty sure the folks (and corporations) who supported the Duggars financially did their homework about the Duggars' legal troubles. That they're running away now doesn't make them better people.

Or Huckleberry just spoke first and questioned later. He's been known to make face palm worthy remarks, and infamously suggested putting everyone with AIDS in ghettos so they could be quarantined. He's an asshole so it's not surprising.

[jumper sage]

Which may feature Me-chelle lecturing them about how females of every age must dress modestly and behave appropriately, and not do anything to stir up male lust. Like, for instance, falling asleep in your own bed in your own home. When you are between 5 and 10 years old.

Thank you!  Those poor girls have had to sit in front of a camera and talk about how they feel THEY need to help men by not defrauding them by the clothes they wear.  I think the parents went on to basically blame the girls.  It was up to the girls to yell NIKE to "help" the boys.  Those girls have had to sew dresses for Josh's wedding, go be babysitters for his kids all the while they are locked up inside the house.  Just like abductees.  It is just too much!  Too much.  To be with you abuser day in and day out must be torture.  Jim Bob took him to an officer he knew who was then convicted of child porn?  Come on!  There was a show in the past year or so where Josh was staying at the Duggar-do-whatever-the-hell-you-want-if-you-are-a-boy compound and was making breakfast while everyone was asleep and one of the littlest girls came walking through.........Jesus, Joseph and Mary.

My new heroes = Oprah and Montel

[Seashell Lover]

https://www.rockymountainsuperconference.com/speakers/

I called them and asked if the molesters parents would still be there but not in those terms and they told me yes. 

[JoanArc]

https://www.rockymountainsuperconference.com/speakers/

I called them and asked if the molesters parents would still be there but not in those terms and they told me yes. 

The Duggars are still on alive.org's speaker list. I emailed them, but haven't gotten a reply.

[yankee1151]

This is spot on: http://kathrynbrightbill.com/post/119589404411/josh-duggar-says-hes-sorry-so-what

 

Also, a facebook page calling for the Duggars to be cancelled.... I guess I shouldn't be surprised it only has 1300 ish likes, with all the gross apologists. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cancel-the-Duggars/309231579282510

 

 

[Happyfatchick]

They may keep up with their speaking engagements, but they're going to have to get another bus to haul around the elephant that has to be in the room

[Bella]

Also, a facebook page calling for the Duggars to be cancelled.... I guess I shouldn't be surprised it only has 1300 ish likes, with all the gross apologists. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cancel-the-Duggars/309231579282510

 

I just "liked" it out of principle.

 

I also think TLC is waiting to gauge public opinion before making a decision. The "maybe without Josh" concept was likely floated out there in order to get reactions. So I think emailing the network is worthwhile. Also, it used to be that the formula in Washington was that an original, signed letter was worth 10 emails, and a phone call was worth 10 signed letters. I don't know if that still applies, though, especially with social media.

[Cherrio]

I think emailing and calling the sponsors of the show is more effective, because without sponsorship there is no show, scandal or not.

[wanderwoman]

That clan doesn't wield the same wealth or political power as the Duggars.

I actually believe there are important differences between the HBB scandal and this scandal. June is an adult who, knowing the man had been CONVICTED, of sexually abusing her daughter, decided to rekindle a relationship with the man her daughter was still justifiably scared of. The offender was an adult praying on a child and June simply didn't give a shit about Pumpkins feelings and dismissed them as "drama".

Josh was a teenager. His parents tried (even if we did disagree with their methods) to intervene. June did nothing. She didn't even believe her daughter when she accused the guy. Jim Bob and Michelle, at least, as far as we know, believed their daughters. I think both families are dysfunctional. But, I think June threatening to sue for her show being cancelled, instead of showing compassion for the Duggars girls, is pretty audacious. She doesn't care about the kids: she's not once mentioned that she was sorry for her part in the abuse. Pumpkin claims June was mad at her for telling on the guy. June let an adult hurt her child and then welcomed the convicted, ADULT, non-family offender back in her home with her other kids. Jim Bob and Michelle were dealing with Josg- their child. They had to choose between their children and I believe they chose poorly. June was choosing between a boyfriend and her child and she chose the boyfriend.

[Julia]

Alrighty then.

 

I love America for allowing different points of view and encouraging individuality. I've said many times that Republicans aren't right all the time and Democrats aren't wrong all the time. It's foolish for us to act as if our point of view makes us always right and the other guy always wrong. Having different views is a good thing. But having different standards is not. If something is right, it's right. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Diversity is a good thing; duplicity is not.

 

Having different rules based on a person's gender, ethnicity, religion or political party creates cynicism and distrust and precludes problem solving because it prohibits the trust necessary to work toward a solution...

 

Some things are either right or wrong. It doesn't matter who does them. When Hollywood hero Roman Polanski drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl and then fled the country instead of facing the consequences of his own guilty plea, there should be no defense of him from anyone. What he did was evil and reprehensible. The fact that he is a great director doesn't obscure the fact that he robbed a child of far more than Bernie Madoff stole from his victims...

 

Pastor Huckabee went on to imagine that back in the day, when "we might have been divided by politics, but not on basic principles of morality," Joe Friday of Dragnet would have told Polanski

 

Like every hoodlum since Kane through Capone, you've learned to hide behind some quirk in the law. And mister, now you've graduated. You've moved to the sewer. You're a child molester.

 

 

I feel like maybe his indignation has cooled.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Julia

[CofCinci]

This Washington Post timeline reports that Josh stood trial in Aug. 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/05/23/a-timeline-of-the-molestation-allegations-against-josh-duggar/

[Fuzzysox]

This Washington Post timeline reports that Josh stood trial in Aug. 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/05/23/a-timeline-of-the-molestation-allegations-against-josh-duggar/

Excellent summary.

[Pete Martell]

I'd bet that TPTB over at People magazine, who've apparently had sweetheart "exclusive" deals with the Duggars, have been drinking heavily this weekend, or otherwise seeking consolation, as the value of that franchise shrivels.

 

People has just reported that Josh and Anna have taken down their official website. I'm sure this isn't what they expected to be reporting this weekend. They probably have Jill/baby and Jessa/pregnancy stories in the works, that are going nowhere now. 

 

I guess regret, or anger over being deceived, would also help explain this unusually frank and detailed report (for a puff piece website) on the "treatment" Josh Duggar received, and the criticism of the place in question.

 

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-

 

Of course this could just be butt-covering before the inevitable cover story of the Duggars looking pained and regretful with the headline: "Duggars: Inside the Hurting."

[Fuzzysox]

New article in People that I just found on my FB feed. 

 

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-?xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag

 

**oops already posted.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Cherrio]

Question:

     In the police report Michelle admits that Josh was not sent to treatment but rather to someone they knew to do manual labor on his project.

     The People article is now stating he was sent to the Institute in Basic Life Principles Training Center in Little Rock, Arkansas.

                         I do not believe the People article.   If it was true then it would of certainly sounded better when Michelle was questioned by police as to where he was sent?

     Both People and The Today Show have or had long standing relationships/agreements with The Duggars and TLC  so that casts a big cloud over their accuracy for me.

[Sew Sumi]

I guess regret, or anger over being deceived, would also help explain this unusually frank and detailed report (for a puff piece website) on the "treatment" Josh Duggar received, and the criticism of the place in question.

 

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-

 

Of course this could just be butt-covering before the inevitable cover story of the Duggars looking pained and regretful with the headline: "Duggars: Inside the Hurting."

Finally! IBLP is mentioned in a mainstream publication. The more Gothard gets exposed, the antsier TLC will get. I think People turning on the Duggars like this bodes ill for the show's future. The Duggars were all about the squeaky clean image; all negative press was subdued by the legions of leghumpers before this scandal. Now? The critics and supporters of the Victims are winning. 

[whydoiwatch]

Is it just me or does it seem odd that the 2007 court case is titled "Josh Duggar vs the Arkansas Department of Human Services" ? When I read that it seemed Josh initiated the case, not that he stood trial. Maybe my head is just spinning from reading the forum the last few days.

Edited May 24, 2015 by whydoiwatch

[AmandaPanda]

Is it just me or does it seem odd that the 2007 court case is titled "Josh Duggar vs the Arkansas Department of Human Services" ? When I read that it seemed Josh initiated the case, not that he stood trial. Maybe my head is just spinning from reading the forum the last few days.

 

If that case title is correct, then that definitely means Josh is the plaintiff rather than the defendant. I really hope we get more information on that case in the near future.

[Bella]

If that case title is correct, then that definitely means Josh is the plaintiff rather than the defendant. I really hope we get more information on that case in the near future.

Here's what I'm expecting: more shoes to drop.

Part of this will be because certain media organizations will put out word that they will pay big, big bucks for inside info. The more inside, the more info, the more money. Someone will crack.

[Suzee2]

Mama June is threatening a million-dollar lawsuit if TLC doesn't bring back HBB and allows the Duggars to continue.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/24/mama-june-threatens-to-sue-tlc-bring-back-honey-boo-boo/

 

I detest June but if this works and TLC cancels the Duggars, I'm fine with it.

[leighdear]

 

 The People article is now stating he was sent to the Institute in Basic Life Principles Training Center in Little Rock, Arkansas.

I think that's true in a very broad sense.  I think the Gothards owned the condemned building that was going to be the new training center.  Josh got sent to work with the contractors re-habbing it before it opened.  So technically, he went to where it was GOING to eventually be.  Which in the media is the same thing.  

 

The article says "Sometime between Josh's confession to his father and his formal confession to police, Josh spent time at a facility called the Institute in Basic Life Principles Training Center in Little Rock, Arkansas, PEOPLE has confirmed."

 

Though "Jim Bob would later tell police Josh was in the program from March 17, 2003 to July 17, 2003.".   I think Jim Bob flat-out lied.  I think Josh just worked on the building. 

[GEML]

Actually, the IBPL Training Center was bought by David Green, the owner of Hobby Lobby, who then donated it to Bill Gothard. David Green, who might be described as "someone in construction."

[CindyBee]

Gotta love People magazine putting a couple of negative Duggar articles up on a Sunday afternoon of a major holiday weekend.   But its a start, especially if it means they are finally on their way aout of the "exclusive" promoting Duggar business.   

Edited May 24, 2015 by CindyBee

[Sew Sumi]

People keeps messing with the links, so I want to post the IBLP/Gothard-pertinent stuff here, so we have it in case they zap the links.

 

"The methods employed by the institute have received numerous criticisms from alumni and online forums. John Krull, Executive Director of the Indiana Civil Liberties Union has called the center "appalling" and a "shadow world, where these kids almost disappear." The Institute in Basic Life Principles Training Center has been the subject of a local Child Protective Services investigation, and its principal, Rodger Gergeni, has denied allegations of maltreatment.

 

Last year, at 79-years-old, founder Bill Gothard was accused of sexually harassing or assaulting 34 women, and resigned his position at the institute."

 

BOOM! goes the dynamite.

[leighdear]

On the SAME.DAMN PAGE People still has some of the fluffy, sidebar Duggar video links like "Celebrate 1 month of Courtship and Baby Dilly" , and "8 Washers & Dryers inside the Duggar Home". 

 

Because they are sponsored links.  Idiots. 

[Fuzzysox]

This online article, IMO, does a good job of explaining the Quiverfull/Gothard/ATI belief system, to which Jim Boob and ME-chelle adhere.

And which, of course, TLC rigorously scrubs out of their faux reality TV series. Gah.

Now a hard hitting journalist needs to take that information in that article and expose the ugliness of it all on a national TV show such as 60 Minutes.

I don't think people fully understand what their cult is all about. Gothard is an evil, evil little sick man.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Chalby]

I won't criticize Anna for her shirt being a bit tight. 

But come on, EVERYONE knows what tight shirts do to the opposite sex. Anna clearly welcoming inappropriate attention.... (sarcasm)

[ehr1006]

Here's the newest People Magazine article: http://www.people.com/article/online-commenter-warned-josh-duggar-molestation

 

(headline: Online Commenter Warned About Josh Duggar Molestation 8 Years Ago). 

[Sew Sumi]

Actually, the IBPL Training Center was bought by David Green, the owner of Hobby Lobby, who then donated it to Bill Gothard. David Green, who might be described as "someone in construction."

IIRC, Gothard paid $1 for it. :)

[leighdear]

IIRC, Gothard paid $1 for it. :)

Yet another affirmation of my boycott of Hobby Lobby.  To the benefit of Joann's and Michaels! :)

[NextIteration]

Arkansas Online Exhaustive Timeline that the WaPo Timeline was based on.

[lafcolleen]

In regard to the Josh Duggar v. AK depth of Human Services:

The lawsuit could be Josh's attempt to vacate any DHS finding against him.

I don't practice in AK, but in my state when there are allegations of abuse and neglect, the authorities have 3 different remedies to pursue. 1. Criminal charges which wouldn't apply in this case. 2. A juvenile court case - which only happens when the state takes custody of the children. 3. "Indicating" a person for abuse and neglect - this is a civil remedy and puts the individual into a confidential data base administered by child protection staff. Any person working with children has to pass this background check - schools, preschools, peds units in hospitals, scouts etc. Even school volunteers have to pass it.

If AR is like my state, such a database is not publicly accessible, so a reporter wouldn't find it.

again, assuming AR is like my state, if you are indicated, you have the right to appeal the finding and can have a non jury civil hearing. The court re cords are sealed (Here the records are either sealed or filed under initials. This is done to protection the identity of the children).

So my guess I'd the some state action was taken against Josh and he appealed it.

based on thsee facts, in my state a likely outcome would have been thst Josh would have been indicated for sexual molestation and Jim Bob and Michelle would have been indicated for allowing a known sex offender to have access (after finding out it happened and failing to take reasonable steps to prevent it from happening again).

Edited May 25, 2015 by lafcolleen

[Julia]

Yet another affirmation of my boycott of Hobby Lobby.  To the benefit of Joann's and Michaels! :)

Michaels is owned by some real winners too. Joann's or AC Moore :)

[leighdear]

Hmm....I'll check out Michaels, Julia.  I usually use the HRC Buyers guide for purchases, so I'll research them.  Luckily, I usually hit Joanns or a locally owned knit/craft shop near me for supplies. 

[Literata]

This one's new:

http://time.com/3895404/josh-duggar-molestation-19-kids-and-counting-tlc-anna-molestation/

[Micks Picks]

I love it.  More people who employ personal boycotts.  Mine are usually of actors I have really enjoyed in movies or whatever, who then come to even my attention when they open their big mouths and expound on politics.  This limits my entertainment options, and effects them not at all, but I have to do it!  I used to do commission sales, and when a customer expressed a dislike for a certain manufacturer for whatever reason, I never argued.  There were always other manufacturers to choose from.  Oh, I've also tried boycotting products from a certain country for human rights abuses, and it can't really be done.

[leighdear]

Micks, 

 

I try to do my research, and I try to be impartial. I never ever hold line employees responsible for corporate behavior I find distasteful.  I'm just one person, but I know that when I'm mindful of where I spend my money, I feel better.  

[kathe5133]

Boycotting the show and its sponsors is really the only way to communicate our disgust. If I stop watching all Discovery products, I doubt they will even care. There are over 4,000 posts on this one thread, but even if one person made each post, that's only 4,000 people, a drop in the bucket. But, if 4,000 folks each got one to boycott, and they each got one.... There is no immediate result, it won't be as satisfying as saying bitch slapping Josh, but it is legal, and over the long term, effective. I also can relate to those who are trying to piece things together. That is how I process too. But, I have learned that time will provide all the answers. We just need to be patient.

[kathe5133]

Christ! I have shoes older than her! Ok, Marjorie let's see what you are made of........

[leighdear]

Mike Huckabee's Facebook page is on fire.  Every single item his staff has posted in his news feed since Friday is flooded with comments about how disgusting his support of Josh Duggar is.  For however effective it's judged as, people are making themselves heard over there.  

[Julia]

Mike Huckabee's Facebook page is on fire.  Every single item his staff has posted in his news feed since Friday is flooded with comments about how disgusting his support of Josh Duggar is.  For however effective it's judged as, people are making themselves heard over there.  

 

I honestly wonder how much the timing of this and the self-identified christian conservatives condemning Huckabee in his comments have to do with Huckabee's campaign. Because maybe I missed it, but Josh has also posted smiling pictures of himself cuddling up to Ted Cruz, Reince Priebus, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker,  Bobby Jindal,  Rick Perry, Sarah Palin and Rick Santorum (who he endorsed for president in the last election). Granted, they didn't go as far as Huckabee, but I don't see anyone flooding their comments insisting they distance themselves from Josh, and reporters don't seem to be asking.

[NextIteration]

Josh has also posted smiling pictures of himself cuddling up to Ted Cruz, Reince Priebus, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker,  Bobby Jindal,  Rick Perry, Sarah Palin and Rick Santorum (who he endorsed for president in the last election). Granted, they didn't go as far as Huckabee, but I don't see anyone flooding their comments insisting they distance themselves from Josh, and reporters don't seem to be asking.

 

I don't care to go examine them, but in how many of them is Josh wearing the same clothes?  I'm betting that almost all of them were taken at CPAC.

[Julia]

I don't care to go examine them, but in how many of them is Josh wearing the same clothes?  I'm betting that almost all of them were taken at CPAC.

 

I think some were, and I don't think having their picture taken with an officer of an influential pressure group within their party means they necessarily knew him from Adam.

 

I'm just finding it unusual that Huckabee is getting such an overwhelming and practically unanimous negative response from people who identify themselves as christian cultural conservatives in his comments. InTouch magazine's comments seem to have more Duggar defenders from inside their mutual community than Mike Huckabee's. I find that odd. And the press isn't following up on the other social conservative candidates for president who have connected themselves to him, and I find that very odd.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Julia

[GEML]

Josh is a Republican lobbyist. Of course there are going to be pictures of him with top Republicans. Heck, I'm a Dem activist, but *I* could have had my photo taken with some of the people listed above because actual DC isn't people hating other people the way it's often shown on TV.

Huckabee is getting heat because he made a personal statement speaking up for Josh. Although I have to think Santorum is really really happy about it.

[Literata]

With the exception of some punctuation issues, this is excellent.

http://gawker.com/quiverfull-of-shit-a-guide-to-the-duggars-scary-brand-1706557073

[JenCarroll]

Christ! I have shoes older than her! Ok, Marjorie let's see what you are made of........

Airbrushing. :-)

[kathe5133]

"Quiver full of shit". Love it. That might replace "bullshit" as my new go to curse!

[HumblePi]

The Willis family was like 13 theater kids to me with mama leading the way.  They are a little more polished than Jill Rodriguez, but far, far too look at me and watch how much I can act and carry on for attention.

 

I'm tired of the Duggars, but I've hung on all these years and will watch probably until they go off the air.  The newer families mostly seem to be trying too hard and therefore have no interest for me.  

I'm just tired of TLC entirely since all they can do is program shows that intrigue us because the subjects are either bizarre or unrealistic on some level. Do we really want to see mentally ill people that hoard or little girls dressed up like strippers and paraded in front of judges to be scored on their level of sophistication? After realizing that TLC had full knowledge of the Josh allegations yet knowingly enabled this family because it was a huge cash cow for them sickens me. I'm not only anti-Duggar type shows, I'm completely anti-TLC programming. I will never trust any programs produced by TLC again.

[Bella]

I'm just tired of TLC entirely since all they can do is program shows that intrigue us because the subjects are either bizarre or unrealistic on some level. Do we really want to see mentally ill people that hoard or little girls dressed up like strippers and paraded in front of judges to be scored on their level of sophistication? After realizing that TLC had full knowledge of the Josh allegations yet knowingly enabled this family because it was a huge cash cow for them sickens me. I'm not only anti-Duggar type shows, I'm completely anti-TLC programming. I will never trust any programs produced by TLC again.

 

On Friday or Saturday, I stripped all the TLC shows off of our DVR and DVR recording schedule, which I will note when I send my emails to the network and the sponsors.