S02.E04: Gloves Off

[Tara Ariano]

Jimmy's actions unexpectedly create waves for Kim. Meanwhile, Mike cautiously weighs a lucrative proposal that might bring about dire consequences.

[SignGuy77]

I think the title might be a play on words.

[Bryce Lynch]

Krazy 8 in a Tampico shirt!

Edited March 8, 2016 by Bryce Lynch

[SignGuy77]

Krazy 8 in a Tampico shirt!

Bueno!

Also, totally called Tuco being the target. Nacho might be smart but sure took a long time understanding why Mike's plan was better.

[Umbelina]

So, does getting Tuco off the street for a while really solve the problem?

 

Loved it, but didn't Nacho want Tuco DEAD?

 

This show may try to make me feel sorry for Chuck, but nope, it will never, ever, happen.  I was kind of surprised they didn't outright fire Jimmy.  A reputation is a valuable thing to risk, and frankly, Jimmy already damaged it.

[TVFan17]

I squealed at my monitor, "Krazy 8!!!!!!!!"

 

Frankly, even though there has been recent Tuco talk on this show, I didn't think we would see Tuco again this season -- or at least not this soon.  So I was glad to see him.  When Mike mentioned that getting rid of Tuco would get all of the Salamancas' attention, I was thinking, "Yes!  Let's see the Cousins and Hector!!!"

 

This whole Mike-Nacho-Tuco story line was masterfully done, because even though I know that all 3 of them survive well into Breaking Bad's timeline, I was still nervous and on edge to see what was going to happen.  Knowing what a live wire Tuco is, I was afraid he was going to kill Mike -- even though I knew that he wouldn't kill Mike!

[Bryce Lynch]

Bueno!

Also, totally called Tuco being the target. Nacho might be smart but sure took a long time understanding why Mike's plan was better.

Now I can't wait to find out who Mike said , "Do I know you?" to in the preview. Fring? Hector?

If I ever need an illegal gun I am going to Lawson. I love that guy. So professional and customer friendly and he has such a passion for his merchandise.

I don't really think defacing the serial #s is generally a great idea though. If you get caught with such a weapon you are going to Federal prison and if you do things right, the police will never find the gun.

[SignGuy77]

So, does getting Tuco off the street for a while really solve the problem?

Loved it, but didn't Nacho want Tuco DEAD?

5 to 10 gives Nacho a nice long time to figure things out. Especially if it's closer to 10. And especially if the place is not "crawling with Salamancas."

[Bryce Lynch]

5 to 10 gives Nacho a nice long time to figure things out. Especially if it's closer to 10. And especially if the place is not "crawling with Salamancas."

I just realized that "CRAWLING with Salamancas" was a BB Easter egg. :)

Edited March 8, 2016 by Bryce Lynch

[SignGuy77]

Goddam you Gilligan.

That's a bell we can't unring!

[NYCFree]

I just realized that "CRAWLING with Salamancas" was a BB Easter egg. :)

Can you explain? I don't remember the line.

[riverheightsnancy]

Krazy 8 in a Tampico shirt!

What/or who is Krazy 8?  (I have never seen BB). 

[MrWhyt]

So, does getting Tuco off the street for a while really solve the problem?

 

Loved it, but didn't Nacho want Tuco DEAD?

Killing Tuco will cause problems, like having people look into who killed Tuco. Mike did explain this.

[SignGuy77]

What/or who is Krazy 8? (I have never seen BB).

The first guy Walter White made a sandwich for.

Seriously.

[Bryce Lynch]

Can you explain? I don't remember the line.

The cousins crawled to the shrine of Santa Muerte to get a blessing on their vengeance on Heisenberg. Later the one who initially survived the hit on Hank crawled out of his hospital bed and across the floor to try to kill Walt

[SignGuy77]

Can you explain? I don't remember the line.

Salamanca cousins literally crawled to a Santa Muerte shrine to ask advice before their Heisenberg search.

[SailorGirl]

5 to 10 gives Nacho a nice long time to figure things out. Especially if it's closer to 10. And especially if the place is not "crawling with Salamancas."

Hah -- I didn't even catch that -- well played VG et al!

This was actually really a sad episode because it showed the depths of Mike's guilt over his son's death and the daughter-in-law's grip on reality, and the resultant lengths Mike will go to in order to provide for Kaylie. 

I've said it before, I'll say it again . . . . Nacho is one fine lookin' drug dealer. . .  

 

[Umbelina]

What/or who is Krazy 8?  (I have never seen BB). 

http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Domingo_%22Krazy-8%22_Molina

[NDW5332]

So, is this the prison stretch for Tuco where he will later meet Skinny Pete?

[TVFan17]

Okay, now I have to think ahead to Breaking Bad's story -- I can't help it.  We never saw nor heard of any interaction between Mike and Tuco during BB, did we?  We met Mike on the show after we met Tuco.  I remember that Mike was aware of the Cousins and he reported to Gus about their little scythe drawing in front of Walter's house.  But Mike never mentioned Tuco, nor did Tuco mention Mike.  Did Tuco forget about Mike by then... or what happened?  Why wasn't Tuco trying to kill Mike in later years?

 

Anyway, the guy who plays Krazy 8 looks as young as ever -- he hasn't aged at all, it seems, so he can easily play a young Krazy 8. 

[SignGuy77]

So, is this the prison stretch for Tuco where he will later meet Skinny Pete?

CHURCH!

[Dev F]

But Mike never mentioned Tuco, nor did Tuco mention Mike.  Did Tuco forget about Mike by then... or what happened?  Why wasn't Tuco trying to kill Mike in later years?

 

There's no overlap between Tuco's time on Breaking Bad and Mike's.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Dev F

[Bryce Lynch]

The first guy Walter White made a sandwich for.

Seriously.

With the crust cut off. :)

[TVFan17]

There's no overlap between Tuco's time on Breaking Bad and Mike's.

 

We met Mike after we met Tuco.  But Mike was around while Tuco was around -- even though we had not met Mike yet -- and we never heard Tuco mention wanting to kill Mike, nor did we hear anyone in Tuco's camp mention Mike.  Mike never mentioned Tuco 'after the fact' to Gus (when talking about the Cousins stalking Walter) or to Walter & Jesse, just in passing.  It just seemed to me like Mike and Tuco had no direct, personal knowledge of each other, let alone a reason for Tuco to want to kill Mike or vice versa.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Sherry67

[benteen]

What a great episode.  This show continues to get better and better.

 

The Jimmy and Chuck confrontation was great and both Odenkirk and McKean nailed it.  There’s no denying a lot of what Chuck said was right.  Jimmy is the one who created this situation and he put Kim in a bad situation by lying about it.  Of course, Kim did herself no favors by covering for Jimmy.  She knows what he is and she willingly took the fall for him.

 

That being said, Chuck is still a detestable, passive-aggressive piece of shit.  I still can’t get behind him and he still makes Jimmy look better in comparison.  Loved Jimmy’s line about him having his hand up Hamlin’s ass, which was dead on.

 

I love how the show moved on from that confrontation to Mike’s storyline.  Nacho’s a terrific character and I like seeing him and Mike work off of each other.  Having Mike confront Tuco was epic.  It’s great that these two characters get to interact on Saul.

 

I thought that guy looked familiar but I didn’t realize that was Krazy 8.  Guy does legitimately look younger than he was several years ago.

 

Nice seeing Jim Beaver return as the world’s most polite gun trafficker.

Edited March 8, 2016 by benteen

[SignGuy77]

It is plausible that Mike filled Gus in on his Tuco fling earlier on, off-screen, and it doesn't really need to be used as exposition when the cousins arrive, as Tuco is no longer a threat then.

[TVFan17]

It is plausible that Mike filled Gus in on his Tuco fling earlier on, off-screen, and it doesn't really need to be used as exposition when the cousins arrive, as Tuco is no longer a threat then.

 

Let me put it another way.... Tuco would have obviously wanted to kill Mike.  We know how crazy he is.  Before the Cousins arrived....  how did Mike escape being killed by Tuco, or how did Tuco escape being killed by Mike?  I would have to assume that the Salamanca clan had a bit of knowledge about who was working with Gus Fring, and that would have included Mike.  Would they not have put 2 and 2 together and figured out that Mike was the one who had the run-in with Tuco years earlier? 

 

Maybe these are rhetorical questions, and I am just thinking aloud.  Or maybe it is all something that will be spelled out in future episodes/seasons of Better Call Saul.

[Umbelina]

Yeah, and Mike didn't need to file a complaint since the cops witnessed it, so how would he even find Mike?

 

I'm sure the continuity people know they never directly interacted.  Aside from that, there are a ton of explanations that don't require much fan wanking, such as Nacho telling him that old guy is dead now. 

[Dev F]

Plus, when we meet Tuco in Breaking Bad, he's only been out of prison for a year at most, and it's only when Krazy-8 disappears that he becomes a distributor of some prominence again. So it's not like he was some high-level guy who could snap his fingers and say, "Bring me the head of the man who put me in prison." He probably ranted about wanting to pound the guy some more, and everyone rolled their eyes and ignored him, because chasing after a random old man who could be anyone, anywhere is a big waste of time.

[benteen]

Right.  Then when Tuco started using again, Mike quickly became forgotten.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he got so high that he ended up killing a guy who only LOOKED like Mike.

Edited March 8, 2016 by benteen

[Irlandesa]

We met Mike after we met Tuco.  But Mike was around while Tuco was around -- even though we had not met Mike yet -- and we never heard Tuco mention wanting to kill Mike, nor did we hear anyone in Tuco's camp mention Mike.  Mike never mentioned Tuco 'after the fact' to Gus (when talking about the Cousins stalking Walter) or to Walter & Jesse, just in passing.  It just seemed to me like Mike and Tuco had no direct, personal knowledge of each other, let alone a reason for Tuco to want to kill Mike or vice versa.

What we're learning through Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul is how small the drug world is in Albuquerque.  And yet, our view of that world is pretty limited to what Walter White knew.  Walter White never had the chance to meet Nacho so we didn't get a chance to know Nacho.  Maybe Tuco did look for Mike but wasn't able to find him.  Or maybe he learned Mike wasn't someone he wanted to mess with.   When we were introduced to Mike, he already had a prior relationship with Gus and Saul.  And Tuco was irrelevant to his story because he was dead.  It's kind of like how Saul had all this going on in his life but we knew nothing of it until we entered the world of Better Call Saul. 

 

That Chuck and Jimmy scene was a terrific scene.  It's nice now that there are no lies between them because they're both allowed to sink their teeth into their resentment. 

[Scout Finch]

Was Krazy-8 the new-ish distributor who gave Tuco the money (and got the evil stare back in return)? I don't recall seeing anyone else with Tuco and Nacho other than him. Maybe I would have realized who it was if he'd been eating a crust-less sandwich!

[LittleIggy]

I love Jim Beaver to pieces! Good to see him again.

Jimmy is a far better person than I am. I would have walked into Chuck the Fuck's house with my electronics. BTW, I noticed Chucky wearing a watch. Must be a winder.

How does Davis & Main think they will get clients for a class action lawsuit without ads? Sure, Jimmy should have run it by them, but if he had they would have gone for another of those "Do you or a love one suffer from Mesothelioma, blah, blah, blah" type ads which people tune out.

[benteen]

My guess is Davis and Main think they're too "good" and "prestigious" to be running infomercials. 

[thuganomics85]

Holy shit!  I thought the return of Lawson, the friendly neighborhood gun dealer was a nice bit (I think Jim Beaver should be required to appear in every show ever made), but then a surprise Tuco appearance?! Pretty sure I didn't see Raymond Cruz's name in the guest credits.  But not only that, freaking Krazy Eight?!!!  Hell yeah! I love how they bring in familiar faces like this, but it doesn't feel gratuitous or like they're just dishing out fanservice.  So far, every returning character makes sense in their particular scene and story, and serves a purpose of some kind.  I'm loving it and I can't wait to see who else might be showing up.

 

Once again, Jonathan Banks can do so much with a character that is kind of quiet and muted.  But I love how Mike figured out a way to avoid actually killing Tuco, and even put his own body on the line to do so.  As Nacho said, it probably would have been easier to just kill him (and I'm sure Walt would have appreciated it), but that's just who Mike is here.  He is someone who can go there, but he won't unless he really has to do.  I also loved how Mike played up the doddering old man when he was playing the con.  Mike is the best, and I'm still bitter that Banks didn't get an Emmy last season.

 

That Jimmy vs. Chuck scene sure was something because I really did agree with a lot of what Chuck was saying.  Jimmy's actions do have consequences and sometimes it might go past him, like in this case, Kim.  And he might not always be able to throw himself on a sword and fix everything.  In the end, Jimmy does seem to be an "ends justify the means" kind of guy, which is problematic and will probably doom him.  At the same time, I just feel like Chuck isn't even attempting to explain it in a way that might help Jimmy, but just uses it to gloat and make himself feel better.  Their relationship is so strange.  Even after everything, Jimmy will still take care of him like he did tonight, but Chuck won't even budge with him or offer him any advice.  Soon or later, there will be a breaking point.  They even had that little moment where Jimmy briefly considered bringing his cellphone in the house.  Have to think Jimmy will finally snap one day, and I would not want to be Chuck when that happens.

 

Not surprised Jimmy still has a job, but I have to think his working relationship with Cliff is pretty rocky.  Not as rocky as his relationship with Kim is though.  Hate to say it, but I don't blame her.  Jimmy really did screw her over, and even though it's easy to blame it on Chuck being Chuck or Harold being spineless, he didn't even consider his own actions effecting her on any level.

 

A very good episode!

[TVFan17]

What we're learning through Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul is how small the drug world is in Albuquerque.  And yet, our view of that world is pretty limited to what Walter White knew.  Walter White never had the chance to meet Nacho so we didn't get a chance to know Nacho.  Maybe Tuco did look for Mike but wasn't able to find him.  Or maybe he learned Mike wasn't someone he wanted to mess with.   When we were introduced to Mike, he already had a prior relationship with Gus and Saul.  And Tuco was irrelevant to his story because he was dead.  It's kind of like how Saul had all this going on in his life but we knew nothing of it until we entered the world of Better Call Saul. 

 

That Chuck and Jimmy scene was a terrific scene.  It's nice now that there are no lies between them because they're both allowed to sink their teeth into their resentment. 

 

Your sentence that I bolded above is along the lines what I was thinking.   Something possibly happened over the years that made Tuco realize that Mike was not to be messed with.  Otherwise, it seems like both of them were co-existing in New Mexico and Mike was somehow not on Tuco's radar.  What I am thinking about doesn't have much to do with Walter White -- it's more an issue of what you said.  The drug world is small in ABQ.  All of the important players probably know of each other.   I am assuming that the Salamanca clan would know who Gus Fring's "employees" were, and would know that Mike was one of them, and would connect the dots and realize that Mike was the one who had the run-in with Tuco years earlier.  I would have assumed that all of that had been figured out even before Tuco got out of prison, but something else must have happened over time to distract him/them!

Edited March 8, 2016 by Sherry67

[Quilt Fairy]

I am assuming that the Salamanca clan would know who Gus Fring's "employees" were, and would know that Mike was one of them, and would connect the dots and realize that Mike was the one who had the run-in with Tuco years earlier.

I think that Mike keeps pretty low-profile even if he goes on Gus Fring's payroll rather than being an independent contractor. He's the guy who cleans up bad situations and he's more flexible if people don't know who he is.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[Dev F]

Another thing that just occurred to me: Mike and Nacho planned the encounter very carefully, so that Mike doesn't act like anything but a crotchety old man until Nacho has already left the scene. Nacho won't be able to confirm Tuco's version of events, and he can truthfully say that things didn't look like they were spiraling out of control in any way by the time he left.

 

So from the perspective of anyone in the cartel with a modicum of sense, it'll seem like Tuco just got suddenly violent and paranoid like he always does and beat up an old man for no reason. Heck, it's possible that once he comes down, Tuco himself will wonder whether the struggle was all in his meth-addled brain. That would all make it much more unlikely for it to become a big cartel beef.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Dev F

[Ronin Jackson]

I agree they've been doing such an excellent job with the BB callbacks. Every one of them feels like they truly belong in the story and not just there so the fans can have a Krazy 8 geek squee (even if that's going to happen regardless... but it makes perfect sense that Krazy 8 was starting to get mixed up with Tuco at that time). That scene was quite nicely done... slowly and rather predictably revealing Tuco was sort of like a slight of hand misdirection to really surprise us with the Krazy 8 reveal. The folks who put this show together are masters.

 

Also, we're starting to see Jimmy's transformation into Saul take shape. I think if Chuck takes Jimmy's deal he would have stayed true to his word and Saul would never happen. It's starting to look like Saul Goodman is Jimmy's ultimate revenge to Chuck gone out of control and taking on a life of its own.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Ronin Jackson

[Tim Thomason]

Nice of Lawson to get a customer who actually knows the product and can have a meaningful sales discussion. Everything they were saying flew over my head, but the scene still made perfect sense. And some great insight into Mike's character with the implication that he was a Marine Corps sniper in Vietnam.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Waaaay too much time wasted at Chuck's place.  I don't need to see any more cray cray behavior out of him.  That has been beaten to death.  I get that having Jimmy stand watch over him all night, despite all that has gone down between them, is an important piece to what was to come.   They just wasted too much time getting to it.  The final line, where Chuck mocked Jimmy for being late, even though it was due to a brotherly act, was a perfect illustration of the bind Jimmy has put himself in.

 

To that end...One of the prime directives of a grifter is that when exposed by a given individual, they must avoid said individual as much as humanly possible.  Jimmy forgets himself.  This is very difficult for me to buy at this time - especially since the said person in this instance goes out of his way to hurt him as deeply and personally as possible.  Kim, Davis & Main, Sandpiper...none of that is worth it anymore.   

 

Contrast with Mike, who has figured out his bottom lines across the board.  

 

The con on Tuco was another one super tough for me to swallow.  Do you know how much time expired from the time of the call of a gun fight, to the first unit arriving?  That place would already be well known to ABQ po po.  Mike took far too much risk.  Also, Tuco and/or the Salamancas would, at some point, be told that the original call was what it was.    Mike would know that they would be wired into ABQPD enough to not be able to trust that his call would never become known.  For me, anyway, too big a stretch.

 

They went to great trouble in the final sequence with the dirt being whipped up to effect Mike as a "ghost."  Didja notice how he just whipped the car back and out of the picture?  We never hear the car driving off.  Then, the remaining shot left the appearance that someone was there, but is not there.  Fantasma.

 

This ep was better than just about anything else on TV.  It just wasn't up to BCS snuff.  YMMV.

[Christina]

I think the title Gloves Off is a play on the silver boxing gloves around Tuco's neck. We see them first when Mike walked on the screen all beat up, sat down in the chair and looked down at the gloves. They were around Tuco's neck during the fight. 

 

Last season, when Jimmy pulled the billboard scam, Chuck ended up under the tinfoil blanket. Jimmy said that Chuck get's worse when he thinks Jimmy is doing wrong. I think that is why he stuck around; he feels obligated. 

[TVFan17]

I think that Mike keeps pretty low-profile even if he goes on Gus Fring's payroll rather than being an independent contractor. He's the guy who cleans up bad situations and he's more flexible if people don't know who he is.

 

That could very well be.  I guess I just figured that Mike had accompanied Gus to enough places that he would have become known as a Fring associate in the drug Cartel circles, and that someone in the Salamanca clan would have eventually realized that Mike got Tuco sent to prison.   But, maybe not.   Maybe Mike was invisible to all of them -- or a ghost, as Lonesome Rhodes mentioned above!  I have no clue -- it's just something that I immediately thought of when I saw Mike and Tuco interacting in tonight's episode.

[placate]

I'd like this show much better if it was Better Call Mike. I don't care about Saul's brother. I don't care about his time with a legit law agency. I want him to become Saul. I want him to hire Francessca and use Mike as his enforcer. I don't care about Jimmy and his relationship with Kim. I don't care about his time with a big time law firm. I know this stuff is doomed by canon. I do want to know what happened between him and Nacho, but everything else is so boring.

[Judois]

Hah -- I didn't even catch that -- well played VG et al!

This was actually really a sad episode because it showed the depths of Mike's guilt over his son's death and the daughter-in-law's grip on reality, and the resultant lengths Mike will go to in order to provide for Kaylie.

I've said it before, I'll say it again . . . . Nacho is one fine lookin' drug dealer. . .

I second that observation. I think I have a crush on that actor.

[RCharter]

Allright, I'm 9:07 but I had to come here and tip my hat to all of you who predicted that Nacho would have Mike try to kill Tuco and vehemently rejected my very forcefully placed and wrong idea that it would be Playah.  You all were right, I was wrong!  :)  I scrolled straight down so I wouldn't be spoiled.  If any of you have gloated, it is well deserved and completely understandable.  ;)

[Lizzing]

I'm off netflix and don't have access to BrBa anymore, so correct me if I'm wrong:  (1) Nacho was never on BrBa, but only (maybe) mentioned when Saul says something like, "It wasn't me, it was Ignatio". (2) If BCS starts in '02, and BrBa started in '08, Tuco couldn't have gotten much more than 5 years to be back on the street pretty well ensconced back in dealing.

 

Inasmuch as I like Jimmy/Saul, and really love it when he's in active mode, hustling cons, rustling up clients, and spinning a yarn in interrogation rooms, he kind of falls flat with all this law practice office politics.  Putting that kind of storyline in juxtaposed with Mike makes the Jimmy stuff more of a drag than it would be otherwise.  After this episode, I'd be cool if they shifted focus to Mike and less on Saul.  However, as said above, even a draggy episode vis a vis Jimmy is still better than 99% of other stuff on TV now.

[RCharter]

My guess is Davis and Main think they're too "good" and "prestigious" to be running infomercials. 

LOL, but they will of course, still take the business....in the interest of justice and all.

[NYCFree]

We also saw the possible reason for the actual birth of Saul Goodman. Jimmy promises that "Jimmy McGill, lawyer will be gone, like he never existed." It's possible that at some point Chuck succumbs to the temptation of extorting Jimmy. Jimmy then lives up the letter, but not the spirit, of the agreement. Jimmy McGill never practices law again, but Saul Goodman's law career is born

[Duke Silver]

I'd like this show much better if it was Better Call Mike. I don't care about Saul's brother. I don't care about his time with a legit law agency. I want him to become Saul. I want him to hire Francessca and use Mike as his enforcer. I don't care about Jimmy and his relationship with Kim. I don't care about his time with a big time law firm. I know this stuff is doomed by canon. I do want to know what happened between him and Nacho, but everything else is so boring.

 

This might be a long'ish haul for you then, because because Vince & Peter Gould have been clear that they like Jimmy very, very much.  As w/ Walter White's transformation, I want to see the change; that's what made it superior TV, IMO.  Seeing nothing but the thug/"criminal lawyer" is not nearly as interesting to me.  Obviously, YMMV.

Edited March 8, 2016 by cubbie5150