S20.E10: The Women Tell All

[yorklee2]

I know Lauren H isn't the most beautiful of Bachelorettes, but I liked her self-depreciating humor.  I really had hopes she had a shot at the Bachelorette.  She was the most poised and empathetic of anyone there.

I agree that Lauren H was all these things. She was a late bloomer in that we weren't shown her true empathetic nature until late in season. It was really evident on WTA.

 

Regarding the soccer mom comment, my honest first reaction to it wasn't that she was referring to race at all. I took it as she was saying Ben wouldn't want someone sullen or standoffish to other moms. Race never entered my mind. I think she was misperceived in that whole Jubilee bashing context that the producers chose to show us. Amber and Jami were the ones who had the ax to grind and everyone else just kind of got sucked into it. I think there were a whole lot of misconceptions going both ways there. Jubilee felt the others couldn't possibly understand her when probably she should have tried harder to give them a chance to get to know her, and the women should have been more open to the possibility that there was something deeper going on with Jubilee and tried harder to get to know her.

 

We as humans find it hard to get beyond first impressions at times. My biggest turn off with Lauren H was her voice. As was Amanda's. Of course as in real life when you really get to know someone you don't even notice it after awhile.

 

I first noticed Lauren H's true nature when she was cuddling a baby pig and comforting Leah when she got eliminated but to call her the most poised and empathetic there isn't entirely true IMO. I think Caila displayed that throughout the season also. It was evident of both ladies by the many camera shots at the WTA.

Edited March 10, 2016 by yorklee2

[Bugs Meany]

Regarding the soccer mom comment, my honest first reaction to it wasn't that she was referring to race at all.

 

It was me who described that as "coded language" back in the episode 3 topic. I like Lauren H. and I'm sure she's not racist, but that's how it came across. I know there are a zillion non-white soccer moms, but that term originally referred to a demographic that both parties were courting in the 1996 election.

 

During the election, the soccer mom's most frequently mentioned attribute cited in major newspaper articles was that she was a mother or a woman who had children. The soccer mom's next most frequently mentioned characteristics were that "she lives in the suburbs (41.2% of the articles); is a swing voter (30.8%); is busy, harried, stressed out, or overburdened (28.4%); works outside the home (24.6%); drives a minivan, (usually Volvo) station wagon, or sports-utility vehicle (20.9%); is middle-class (17.1%); is married (13.7%); and is white (13.3%)."

[UsernameFatigue]

Regarding Lauren H, I liked her on the show up until Leah went to Ben to tell lies regarding Lauren B in hopes of derailing their relationship. From what I could see, Lauren knew exactly why Leah was going to see Ben. That is where she lost my respect. But I didn't for a minute think Lauren H's comment regarding soccer moms had anything to do with race. I am white and would make a terrible soccer mom. I find them to be cliquey and often their whole lives revolve around their kids and schlepping them from one activity to another. Yawn.  It brings to mind my hubby's cousin. She and her hubby for several years spent every weekend for six months of the year taking their son to hockey games and tournaments, on top of the weekly practices etc. Then their son decided that he no longer wanted to play hockey at that competitive level. They were devestated - because they would no longer have the other hockey parents to hang out with every weekend. Ugh.

 

I hope Calia is the next bachlorette. As much as I still think some of her 'crying' in the limo was an act (in the replay they showed despite the continual sobbing sounds there were no tears wiped away - in fact her hands were not even at her eyes but at one point were on her forehead) one would think she would have to play the game to some extent to be chosen. And I do think she did like Ben. But most of all I hope she is chosen as I don't like Jo-Jo (either looks or personality wise) and Calia is at least pretty to look at. And I loved her family. Jo-Jo's frightened me except for her dad who I thought was sweet.

Edited March 10, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[Lexusprincess]

I thought Olivia, Jubilee, and Leah got what they deserved.  Olivia did make snarky comments throughout her time on the show and Emily with her" two times" was responding to Olivia's they should have come to me.  Which is hysterical because Olivia would have never listened to any of them.  Olivia got the first impression rose and felt she had it wrapped up.  She stole Ben every chance she got.  Telling Ben "She's in to smart conversations,etc" which made her sound very stupid was snarky about the other girls as were many things she did.  I just loved when Jen threw that line back at her.  Olivia is quite physically attractive but has a long way to go to work on herself.

 

Leah should have figured out that Ben was just not in to her when she was not getting a one on one date and maybe prepare for her exit.  Instead she had green eyed envy over Lauren.  Leah's approach to trash the front runner and then lie about it as Ben said that was on her.  I am glad Ben kicked her off.  I thought her comment "Get over it" was just rude.

 

Jubilee had a tragic background but her I'm so complex blah blah is her way of saying I am so much better than all of you.  She is pretty but she does color the truth.  A technical course is not the same as a four year degree.  Jubilee does quite well at playing a sympathy card.  Jubilee melted down when she realized she was not the front runner and Ben also liked other women especially Lauren.  

 

I enjoyed the show.  Yes the women were snarky.  I like to see the "villains" get the tables turned on them.  I loved Becca calling out Leah for lying to her face.

 

Next week should be interesting and to see how long this Bachelor couple lasts will be even more interesting.  The winner will have a hard time getting past him saying I love you to someone else and the  huge possibility he slept with them all in the fantasy suite.  Caila Ben called her a sexual tigress so of course he kept her and Jo Jo my fiancé said "He will keep her around to bang her".  Then added Lauren will be the one to marry.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Lexusprincess

[kia112]

I said most of what I had to say way back before,  I want to clarify as to why I think Jami/Amber picking on Jubilee was also cry-bullying, as a couple people questioned me on that. (Twins on Olivia seems to be uncontroversial.) I'm not defending what Jubilee said, although I have no idea what she said as there is no film of it. I'm just saying that they were victimizing themselves as a tool to make Jubilee feel bad and create distance between her and the (mostly white and/or unfamiliar with issues of black racial identity) audience. Does anyone seriously think that Jami/Amber thought that "The Bachelor: The Women Tell All" was the best, or even a marginally decent, forum to have a nuanced conversation about the identity of biracial people and the language used to describe them?  And a strong point was made earlier, Jami/Amber (Jamber?) kept confusing whether Jubilee said "fully black" or "really black." Both of those terms could be offensive in context (again, not defending Jubilee on the merits of whatever she said), but the confusion about the phrasing showed me that neither Jami or Amber really remembers what was said, and were constructing it in a way that made Jubilee look the absolute worst, just because they didn't like her. The were opportunistically making a mountain out of a molehill to exploit a vulnerable person, confident in their support from most of the other girls on stage. I guess it comes down to proportionality and context, and I think that Jami/Amber's reaction was out of proportion and in such a context that I could only assume that they were tearing down Jubilee for air time.

 

So perfect and exactly why I gave no weight to what they said.

[Bugs Meany]

Telling Ben "She's in to smart conversations etc" which made her sound very stupid was snarky about the other girls as were many things she did.  I just loved when Jen through that line back at her.

 

Relive that moment here.

[PhysNerd]

I appreciate your post, but I wish it was that simple.

As the mother of a mixed-race daughter, I debated offering my opinion here.  But this post kind of decided it. 

Without getting into too much detail, I believe I raised my daughter that way.  However, so many other people in the world told her different that she does have some issues in this regard.

 

I'm sorry your daughter was hurt by what others have said, but I stand by what I said. It really is that simple though you do need to prepare your child to deal with people who will judge her by her physical appearance, but this is the unpleasant part of any parent's job regardless of their child's racial makeup. No one loves your daughter as much as you do, so they will judge her harshly and probably unfairly.  We are all being judged by our physical appearance even those of us who are racially "pure." Many of my childhood friends were also racially ambiguous and grew up with a much stronger sense of self than many of my racially "pure" friends, so don't tell me it can't be done.  If you are so easily influenced by what others say about your race, other physical features, religion, etc, then you will crumble under the scrutiny until you learn that people say harsh things all of the time. Your daughter is probably still young so it is understandable if she hasn't developed a thick skin yet.  Some people take longer than others to develop a strong sense of self and that's ok.  Don't worry.  She will be fine. 

Hopefully, no potential boyfriends actually watch "The Bachelor" or know people who watch this show because otherwise these girls are going to have a very difficult time finding a husband.  They acted pretty nasty.  I'm not a fan of Jubilee or Olivia, but they did not deserve to be piled on like that.  Yes, I know signing up for the show puts you at risk for being put in situations like this, but damn, their treatment on the show was pretty horrible.  Did they anger one of the Producers or something? They said some foolish things, but I don't think either one is a cruel, nasty person.  They are human beings just like the rest of us- flaws and all.  The twins had zero class in not apologizing to Olivia for commenting on her breath.  That was so cruel to say even if it's true.  Hopefully, the twins grow out of their mean girl stage and become respectable adults otherwise they will look really pathetic behaving this way when they are in their late 20s/early 30s (i.e. Jami and Amber).

Edited March 10, 2016 by PhysNerd

[OnceSane]

Please move on from the race debate as it has veered off-topic several times.

[ilovetrashtv]

New preview shows Ben's mom telling him she'd prefer Jojo, and of course, crying: 

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/bachelor-bens-mom-tearfully-tells-him-her-pick-finale-clip-w166896

 

I'm sorry but Ben's mom seems like a real jerk. Run away, ladies. She will make your life miserable. Why is she crying? This is supposed to be a happy time in his life and she should be happy for him. Also, how awkward for everyone involved if Lauren ends up winning. Lauren will feel unwanted in the family. Just a crappy thing to say (but I'm sure producers made her say it).

Edited March 11, 2016 by ilovetrashtv

[deSchenke]

I didn't think Lauren H's comment about soccer moms was about race at all.  It was said the night Jubilee went on her date with Ben, if I recall correctly.

 

Jubilee is a beautiful woman.  However, she put on a lot of makeup for that date (as they all do), and even put on fake fingernails.  She constantly was fussing with her hair extensions.  She came across as very high-maintenance.

 

IMO, being high-maintenace is the antithesis of being a soccer mom.

[yorklee2]

New preview shows Ben's mom telling him she'd prefer Jojo, and of course, crying: 

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/bachelor-bens-mom-tearfully-tells-him-her-pick-finale-clip-w166896

 

I'm sorry but Ben's mom seems like a real jerk. Run away, ladies. She will make your life miserable. Why is she crying? This is supposed to be a happy time in his life and she should be happy for him. Also, how awkward for everyone involved if Lauren ends up winning. Lauren will feel unwanted in the family. Just a crappy thing to say (but I'm sure producers made her say it).

I think she was crying because she knew that it was going to be a hard choice for Ben to make and was concerned about him making the right decision for his own happiness, but I do think she could be a little domineering. I noticed it when she met Emily too. I said then that who ever he picked needed to persuade him to move far away from his mother. This just reinforces it.

 

I wouldn't want to be Lauren if she's his final choice. It would always be in the back of my mind that his mom preferred JoJo. Real sensitive there, mom.

Edited March 11, 2016 by yorklee2

[UsernameFatigue]

I have always preferred Lauren to Jo-Jo so I have to say I am surprised by Ben's mother's pick. But I am also surprised that she is so tactless as to actually say which one she prefers. I admit that I haven't watched for several seasons - is this normal? On the other hand maybe she deserves to have her son marry into a family where the brothers are rude control freaks. Birds of a feather.......

 

I always remember the season with Trista and Ryan. I thought for sure she was going to pick Charlie (even though I preferred Ryan) as she gave every indication of leaning that way. Ben has always seemed to be way more into Lauren than Jo-Jo but maybe I (and I presume many others) will be surprised, and he will pick Jo-Jo. If his mother though has influenced his decision based on the flimsy reasons she gave in the clip , Lauren will have escaped the monster in law.

[yorklee2]

If his mother though has influenced his decision based on the flimsy reasons she gave in the clip , Lauren will have escaped the monster in law.

Something tells me that's not the reason though. I never liked her from the first time and the way she acted over Emily. Granted Emily is probably not any anyone's idea of a great catch but I thought his mother's reaction was way over the top.

We know even beforehand that both Lauren and JoJo were on their best behavior when they met her and I don't doubt for a minute that they were both lovely and gracious. What would make his mother think that JoJo would be there for Ben any more than Lauren would? Especially if she saw what we all have been seeing all season. That Lauren is over the moon for Ben. So it's kind of hard to buy her reason for preferring JoJo. I think it's nothing more than superficiality and that she thinks JoJo is prettier.

Now she has a right to her opinion but anyone with a ounce of tact or compassion would not say that on national tv knowing if your son didn't pick your choice the one picked would know how you felt. Monster-in- law indeed.

Edited March 11, 2016 by yorklee2

[Lexusprincess]

If he picks Lauren, Ben's mother's comments will be one more nail in the coffin for this relationship. As ditzy as Emily came across, the mother's comments were harsh about her. Ben is 26 years old. Mommy should not be telling him to marry.

I do wonder if the Bachelor franchise is trying to mislead us because of the so many spoilers that Lauren was the one picked.

In one interview, Ben said he did not tell his fiancé that he loved the other woman until after he proposed. That comment makes it sound like it is

Lauren

. Monday should be fun.

Edited March 11, 2016 by OnceSane
added spoiler tags

[NikSac]

I hope the new B'ette isn't Caila for the totally selfish and shallow reason that seeing her name miss spelled for months may drive me nuts. Otherwise I don't have any strong preferences. I assume JoJo is out since she's F2?

Very curious to see what happens Monday. I've thought his final pick would be Lauren for a long time, but dammit show you do have me wondering.

[Bossley]

What would make his mother think that JoJo would be there for Ben any more than Lauren would? Especially if she saw what we all have been seeing all season.

Maybe classism or job discrimination? Ben’s mom might look down on Lauren for being a flight attendant. (I personally think it is a cool job.) Add her black roots and platinum hair, and Ben’s mom might not take her seriously. JoJo, on the other hand, is wealthy, has an impressive job in real estate and is a brunette just like momma Higgins.

[chocolatine]

Maybe classism or job discrimination? Ben’s mom might look down on Lauren for being a flight attendant. (I personally think it is a cool job.) Add her black roots and platinum hair, and Ben’s mom might not take her seriously. JoJo, on the other hand, is wealthy, has an impressive job in real estate and is a brunette just like momma Higgins.

 

JoJo also has a dye job (balayage), hers just looks a lot more professional and expensive than Lauren's.

[ByTor]

I was thinking about how Jubilee mentioned she had another semester to go before getting her degree in sonography, and there was some doubt as to whether she was actually attending a "degree" program.  I wouldn't be surprised if she is.  There's a college in little Dallas, PA, Misericordia University, (I took a Sunday 8AM-12PM Cost Accounting class there, blech!) that has a BS in Medical Imaging program, and Sonographer is one of the many careers you can have with that degree.  I'm sure if there's a BS program there, there are others elsewhere. 

 

http://www.misericordia.edu/page.cfm?p=628

Edited March 11, 2016 by ByTor

[yorklee2]

Maybe classism or job discrimination? Ben’s mom might look down on Lauren for being a flight attendant. (I personally think it is a cool job.) Add her black roots and platinum hair, and Ben’s mom might not take her seriously. JoJo, on the other hand, is wealthy, has an impressive job in real estate and is a brunette just like momma Higgins.

I thought of that too but it's not as if flight attendant is the same as digging ditches or something. He could have very well chose the unemployed girl. And I think a lot of JoJo's wealth comes from her father. More so a family wealth.

Not taking anything away from JoJo. I like her and in some ways I prefer her too but in the end scheme Lauren is probably better suited for him.

As a mother she's certainly entitled to her opinion but at the very least she could have told him privately. Just very rude and tactless to say it on national TV with no thought to Lauren's feelings. Or Ben's for that matter.

Edited March 11, 2016 by yorklee2

[Shibori]

 

IMO, being high-maintenace is the antithesis of being a soccer mom.

I don't think we know the same soccer moms.  When I think soccer moms, I think of the catty, boob-jobbed, bleached (or ombre-d), moms who cluster together to gossip and bitch at their kids dance shows/sports/whatever, are constantly passive-agressively one-upping each other on social media, wear yoga/workout clothes without ever setting foot in a studio, carry an expensive bag (that's either legit if hubby cheats or fake if he doesn't) and desperately follow whatever sad trend they saw on a Kardashian's Instagram or the alpha-mom's Pinterest.  Basically, these women in 10 years.  The definition of high maintenance.

 

 

I don't know if they have jobs, but I imagine their goal is to be vegetable-hating NFL cheerleaders.

They did try out for the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders on the "Making the Team" show in 2014.  They weren't very good.  They made it past the first round mostly because they were twins, but got cut before finals.  Old episodes are in heavy rotation on CMT, or watch it here (intro at the 3:50 mark).  

[ByTor]

The thing that Ben's mother liked was that Ben said JoJo is "the first person who will reassure me". Whoever "wins"...run, don't walk away! Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it looks to me like two giant red flags waving in the breeze; one that Ben is a needy pain in the ass and two that mommy expects her little boy to be fawned over.

[hyacinth]

 

Ben is a needy pain in the ass and two that mommy expects her little boy to be fawned over.

He's the type that might need family therapy when the first baby arrives because he feels ignored. 

[ByTor]

Maybe this is part of Ben's thing about being unlovable, if love to him means "reassurance" (or as I read it, getting his ass kissed on a regular basis). Not many people have the energy (or desire) to be with someone like that.

Edited March 11, 2016 by ByTor

[sofiah]

Why is Ben's mother crying anyway?  Just lie and say you like them both equally and you can see why Ben is so conflicted.  What a moronic way to answer that question. 

 

Ugh.  I find her extremely unlikable.    

[Dr Epi]

I have no problem with his mom stating an opinion. He asked her and she responded.  And then she clarified her response when a producer asked.  And why shouldn't she tell her opinion instead of giving mealy mouth platitudes like "I just want Ben to be happy" and "I respect his decision either way" and "both women have such great qualities that I know they would make great wives for Ben."

 

It was enjoyable to see a real opinion.

 

And I also get why she was crying- she is seeing her son in anguish, she knows that this is a ridiculous situation that her son is in, there are way too many people involved in pressuring Ben to adhere his heart to an artificial timeline of falling in love and proposing, and he is caught between two women.  Of course she feels stress.  I would too if that were my child.

[leighdear]

Just a crappy thing to say (but I'm sure producers made her say it).

Unless they held her down or threatened her in some profound way, she did NOT have to pick a name.  The producers could not PHYSICALLY MAKE her say one of the 2 names.  They just couldn't.  

 

She chose to.  She knew she was being filmed. She knew it could be used on the show.  She could have said that either girl was fine and she supported his decision.  She had a 50/50 chance and she chose.  

 

Now she has to live with the fact that SHE CHOSE when she didn't have to.  

[sofiah]

I have no problem with his mom stating an opinion. He asked her and she responded.  And then she clarified her response when a producer asked.  And why shouldn't she tell her opinion instead of giving mealy mouth platitudes like "I just want Ben to be happy" and "I respect his decision either way" and "both women have such great qualities that I know they would make great wives for Ben."

 

It was enjoyable to see a real opinion.

 

And I also get why she was crying- she is seeing her son in anguish, she knows that this is a ridiculous situation that her son is in, there are way too many people involved in pressuring Ben to adhere his heart to an artificial timeline of falling in love and proposing, and he is caught between two women.  Of course she feels stress.  I would too if that were my child.

 

Yeah, I guess she just gave her opinion and thats fine... its just that now if Ben choses Lauren, her relationship with Lauren will start off on a very bad note.  If it were me, I'd take that into consideration when answering a question like that, if only for the sake of my child. 

 

And I guess people react to stress differently.  To me she seems a little melodramatic.   Ben's "anguish" will be short lived... I'm sure as soon as he makes a decision he will be "more in love then ever, etc."  Also, most of the proposals on this show don't even lead to marriage.  People just keep dating and see where it goes.  Maybe his mom hasn't seen the show before.

[ByTor]

Maybe his mom hasn't seen the show before.

Maybe she didn't. I can't imagine what she would have thought if she actually watched Kaitlyn's season :)

[saber5055]

JoJo, on the other hand, is wealthy, has an impressive job in real estate and is a brunette just like momma Higgins.

 

Plus JoJo has that "Mrs. Higgins" baseball shirt already in her wardrobe.

[leighdear]

Maybe in JoJo's mind, it all makes sense.  Ben would actually make a good wife.  Since she has an actual company of her own, family and connections, then Ben can stay home, keep house and raise the babies.   I'd definitely say she's bringing a hell of a lot more into the relationship than he is. He's a generic salesguy.  

 

But he'd have to trade that baseball shirt in for one that says "Mr. Fletcher" on the back of it.  

Edited March 11, 2016 by leighdear

[saber5055]

Aww, compared to some bachs of the past, I think Ben is okay. Nothing fancy (Jake! Juan Pablo!) and not too goofy looking (Ben Flapjack!), plus he doesn't sounds like Flipper when he laughs or wear his hair like Ed Grimley (Chris Soules!). Nor does he hit us in the head every 10 minutes about being a born-again-virgin (Sean!). I'm all for his actually finding a (real) spouse and a happily ever after (Ashley! JP!).

[yorklee2]

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it looks to me like two giant red flags waving in the breeze; one that Ben is a needy pain in the ass and two that mommy expects her little boy to be fawned over.

I agree. This was my first thought even back when she met Emily. The over dramatic crying for no reason. It's almost like Ben is still "her baby" and no one would be good enough for him. She strikes me as the type who even if Ben did pick JoJo she would ultimately find some kind of fault with her.

 

As everyone knows mother-in-laws can run the gamut. I've seem cases of mothers with only sons who bond with daughter-in-laws and consider them like daughters they never had. Most I'm sure have average mother-in-law/daughter-in-law relationships, but then you have the domineering, can never please her types. It seems as though Ben's mother falls squarely in the last category.

 

I'm curious, as I've missed a lot of seasons, if any former bachelors on this show have had mothers who reacted this way to her son's picks. Have they? 

 

 

And why shouldn't she tell her opinion instead of giving mealy mouth platitudes like "I just want Ben to be happy" and "I respect his decision either way" and "both women have such great qualities that I know they would make great wives for Ben."

Because as the saying goes, "some things are better left unsaid". If Ben does pick Lauren and they do end up getting married there's a lot of possibilities in the future for that comment to rear it's ugly head. In the moment of a heated argument we as humans tend to say stuff we regret later against all reasonable thought. For instance something like, "well your mom didn't prefer me, did she?" or something along those lines. Always thinking you don't add up for whatever reason. And what about children? You never know that a child may find out and say something like, " why does gran not like you mom?" Maybe that's being worse case scenario. Maybe she would grow to love Lauren if she is picked, but bottom line that is something that never needed to be said.

Edited March 12, 2016 by yorklee2

[violet and green]

I give Mommy a pass, as most of these parents are not used to the idea of their offspring meeting someone on a TV show and then making a commitment of some sort to them, after a few dates with women who are competing with a zillion other women.

 

I keep thinking, these are churchy folk, why can't Ben find a nice woman in his church circle?? Is that so hard? Or is he hoping for a spot as a TV presenter or something out of this? So I expect Ben's mother, who said at the start of the season that she was sure the woman would be fine 'wherever he met her' (not exactly a ringing endorsement for the sort of cocktail waitress he's brought home so far, or for this whole Bach show) has more than a few concerns. That said, she looks a bit haggard overall (sorry Ben's Mom), and I wonder if she has just burnt herself out with nerves over the years, and/or just cries easily, etc.

 

But Ben sure is a Mommy's boy. It's nice to respect and care about your folks, but I thought that was extremely wet when he phoned his parents after he met the women on the first night, standing in that hosed driveway. Like he was a kid away at camp.

 

I hope he really is in love and he picks the right woman for him. I go all gooey at this point in the proceedings... My heart is with JoJo, also, so I can't fault Mrs H for picking her over the something-is-a-bit-off-with-her Lauren. 

[WhoAmIReally]

I was thinking about how Jubilee mentioned she had another semester to go before getting her degree in sonography, and there was some doubt as to whether she was actually attending a "degree" program.  I wouldn't be surprised if she is.  There's a college in little Dallas, PA, Misericordia University, (I took a Sunday 8AM-12PM Cost Accounting class there, blech!) that has a BS in Medical Imaging program, and Sonographer is one of the many careers you can have with that degree.  I'm sure if there's a BS program there, there are others elsewhere. 

 

http://www.misericordia.edu/page.cfm?p=628

 

From what I've seen, they're pretty much all certificate or Associate's Degree programs.  I think an Associate's degree is usually four semesters.  Regardless, it's a good career and pays pretty well, with a lot of growth potential, so good for her.

That said, she looks a bit haggard overall (sorry Ben's Mom), and I wonder if she has just burnt herself out with nerves over the years, and/or just cries easily, etc.

 

After we saw her the first time, I thought she looked a little haggard because she's thin, hasn't had any work done, and is probably 50-something.  Now I think it's probably sun damage from living on the lake.  Wear your sunscreen, ladies!  That being said, I like the fact that she's "natural". 

[MsPH]

But Ben sure is a Mommy's boy. It's nice to respect and care about your folks, but I thought that was extremely wet when he phoned his parents after he met the women on the first night, standing in that hosed driveway. Like he was a kid away at camp.

 

LOL, so true. He's already so young and then he has his parents guiding him every step of the way. How many times have we seen them already, 3? 4? I just fear his mom is a bit overinvolved. I also think she would've been wise to straddle the fence, because someone's bound to feel bad about that answer. I doubt it's based on looks or job though. Jojo is just more open and outgoing than Lauren, so she probably leaves a better first impression.

[leighdear]

As for why Ben hasn't found a nice church girl, it's probably because when his parents in Indiana think he's at church, he's far away in Denver, slamming down Bloody Mary's at brunch with his bros and groping the waitress.  And he's not thinking about making her his wife. ;-)

Edited March 12, 2016 by leighdear

[DriveInSaturday]

I'm not clutching my pearls about Mom having an opinion on which girl to pick. It's quite immature for Ben to claim he's in love to the same extent with both women. Mom may well care more about giving her son honest advice than about the supposed feelings of women she doesn't know from Eve. The women assumed the risk of this type of humiliation, and a whole lot more, by agreeing to appear on the show.

 

We all think we "know" Lauren B is a better fit for Ben based on watching what the TBTB have chosen to show us every week. But Mom has known Ben his entire life. That could be informing her take on which girl is the correct pick.  Maybe Mom knows that Ben likes the idea of women like Lauren B, but it never actually seems to work out with them, and, in reality, he prefers and is more compatible with women more like Jojo. Or perhaps she thinks Jojo just likes Ben more than Lauren B does, and she knows needy Ben needs a girl who's over the moon for him. I've never been sure that Lauren fully reciprocated Ben's feelings for her. 

 

The idea that Ben's mom could prefer Jojo to Lauren B goes against the whole narrative we've been sold about the two women, and I think that's awesome. I've always been a little disturbed by the madonna/whore dichotomy that the show subtly presents as the choice between Lauren B and Jojo. "Lauren B is sweet, and Jojo is sexual." "Lauren B is the girlfriend and Jojo is the funk buddy." That sort of thing. I bet this is nothing more than a storyline germane to the show's conservative values, because they want to canonize the eventual "winner" (make no mistake, I still think Ben will choose Lauren B). Ben is clearly a momma's boy though, so this definitely makes me think that Lauren and Ben won't last long after the final rose.

Edited March 12, 2016 by DriveInSaturday

[yorklee2]

 

My heart is with JoJo, also, so I can't fault Mrs H for picking her over the something-is-a-bit-off-with-her Lauren.

Honestly I prefer JoJo also but what if it had gone the other way? What if his mom had said she preferred Lauren and then he went on to pick JoJo? She would then be put in the same situation of always knowing his mom preferred Lauren.

 

I wish he would pick JoJo too but I can see that that was a pointless, damaging thing to say.

Edited March 12, 2016 by yorklee2

[violet and green]

Honestly I prefer JoJo too but what if it had gone the other way? What if his mom had said she preferred Lauren and then he went on to pick JoJo? She would then be put in the same situation of always knowing his mom preferred Lauren.

 

I wish he would pick JoJo too but I can see that that was a pointless, damaging thing to say.

 

My point was Mom's a wreck. This is a very odd situation for anyone who is not a professional fame whore to be in, and she was presumably asked her opinion and gave it without thinking this is going to be screened, because anything the least drama-producing no matter how hurtful will be screened. Maybe she hasn't watched the show before and doesn't know the mores, but I think she's pretty hysterical with horror over the whole thing, imagining Ben is going to marry some show-woman he barely knows - and maybe he is!

[leighdear]

This is Ben's SECOND time on this show.  Granted, he was in a minimized role last time, but his mom had plenty of time to get "clued in" to the editing tricks.  Even if she never watched it before he was a contestant, she didn't go in blind this time.  But I don't think it actually matters in the end. 

 

I doubt he'll walk down the aisle with either, as I don't think either girl wants to get married any more than he does.  And I don't think he does.  

 

And once this "engagement" is over, mom can go back to picking out her next potential daughter in law.  

[TomGirl]

I know Lauren H isn't the most beautiful of Bachelorettes, but I liked her self-depreciating humor. I really had hopes she had a shot at the Bachelorette. She was the most poised and empathetic of anyone there.

ITA. And I do think she's very, very pretty.

ETA: It has literally taken me YEARS to figure out how to do a quote on the iPad, and tonight I finally got it!

Edited March 12, 2016 by TomGirl

[huahaha]

I love me some JoJo, but I don't see how the mom could think that JoJo and Ben are right for each other. JoJo seems like Ben's older, wiser sister, or at best his sassy buddy with the good sex tips. There are probably thousands of guys out there who would be better for JoJo and happy to have her.

[yorklee2]

 

The idea that Ben's mom could prefer Jojo to Lauren B goes against the whole narrative we've been sold about the two women, and I think that's awesome. I've always been a little disturbed by the madonna/whore dichotomy that the show subtly presents as the choice between Lauren B and Jojo. "Lauren B is sweet, and Jojo is sexual." "Lauren B is the girlfriend and Jojo is the funk buddy." That sort of thing.

I would have to agree with this. That's the way the show wanted us to perceive it. I never totally bought into that though. I've never thought that Lauren was a saint no more than I thought JoJo was just a good time girl. I saw JoJo as a strong, earthy, likeable woman who happened to be very aware of her sexuality and owed it.

 

I do wonder though, if Ben's mother could have saw the show up to the point where he has to make his final choice if she would have chosen the same way. I'm really curious and look forward to seeing how things went down when his mom met the women.

Edited March 12, 2016 by yorklee2

[hyacinth]

 

ETA: It has literally taken me YEARS to figure out how to do a quote on the iPad, and tonight I finally got it!

Go Tomgirl, go!   :-)   

 

 

I don't think men (and women) sometimes think through their future with someone that well.   Lauren H would have happily moved back to that little town and been a teacher and a supportive wife.  Would Jojo be happy there? No.  Lauren B?  I say no, too. 

 

Same with Chris Soules.  I mean, just go to effing Des Moines and find a farm girl.   All my relatives are from Iowa and I'm here to tell you:  there are plenty of cute women in Iowa, and Minnesota and Wisconsin, too.  

Edited March 12, 2016 by hyacinth

[JudyObscure]

I'm not clutching my pearls about Mom having an opinion on which girl to pick. It's quite immature for Ben to claim he's in love to the same extent with both women. Mom may well care more about giving her son honest advice than about the supposed feelings of women she doesn't know from Eve. The women assumed the risk of this type of humiliation, and a whole lot more, by agreeing to appear on the show.

 

We all think we "know" Lauren B is a better fit for Ben based on watching what the TBTB have chosen to show us every week. But Mom has known Ben his entire life. That could be informing her take on which girl is the correct pick.  Maybe Mom knows that Ben likes the idea of women like Lauren B, but it never actually seems to work out with them, and, in reality, he prefers and is more compatible with women more like Jojo. Or perhaps she thinks Jojo just likes Ben more than Lauren B does, and she knows needy Ben needs a girl who's over the moon for him. I've never been sure that Lauren fully reciprocated Ben's feelings for her. 

 

The idea that Ben's mom could prefer Jojo to Lauren B goes against the whole narrative we've been sold about the two women, and I think that's awesome. I've always been a little disturbed by the madonna/whore dichotomy that the show subtly presents as the choice between Lauren B and Jojo. "Lauren B is sweet, and Jojo is sexual." "Lauren B is the girlfriend and Jojo is the funk buddy." That sort of thing. I bet this is nothing more than a storyline germane to the show's conservative values, because they want to canonize the eventual "winner" (make no mistake, I still think Ben will choose Lauren B). Ben is clearly a momma's boy though, so this definitely makes me think that Lauren and Ben won't last long after the final rose.

I agree with your first paragraphs but I just can't blame the show for presenting Lauren as sweet and JoJo as sexual.  I think JoJo presents  herself that way.  On her first date with Ben she wore the "almost falling off," black top and almost everything else she wore seemed intended to show off her implants.  I say implants because, on another site one of her tenants said that she likes to joke that her rent paid for them, because she saw the change from one month to the next. Nothing against her choice but if she was willing to undergo major surgery to make her secondary sexual characteristics twice the size of normal -- she probably wants to be seen as sexy.    She's also the one who likes to greet Ben with the  leg wrap hug.  Not exactly demure.

 

I think it's sort of telling that Ben's oh-so-Christian parents prefer the woman with the wine swilling mother who looks like a veteran of Real Housewives of Vegas, the loud mouth brothers who seem to have styled themselves after the Mafia movies and the house with the furnishings that reminded me of "Married to the Mob," when the wife waves her hand around the gaudy furnishings and says,  "Everything here fell off the back of a truck."  Ben may pray over turtles with Lauren but I think maybe he's influenced by all that money and the prospect of selling million dollar properties instead of software. 

 

If Ben picks JoJo that's fine, there's nothing  wrong with her, and I agree that he is more relaxed with her -- but it would mean to me that the man he is when he's with Lauren is not his authentic self.

[hyacinth]

(small voice)    I kind of liked Jojo's family.   Fun mom!   Protective brothers!   :-)  

[MsPH]

(small voice)    I kind of liked Jojo's family.   Fun mom!   Protective brothers!   :-)  

 

Me too! Her mom was a bit strange, but sweet, and her dad was also very nice to Ben, even told him the brothers can hook him up with a job if he wants to move to Dallas. The brothers were a bit OTT perhaps, but I could see why they weren't impressed by Ben. They weren't even that bad if you take out the dramatic music.

[saber5055]

I don't think men (and women) sometimes think through their future with someone that well.   Lauren H would have happily moved back to that little town and been a teacher and a supportive wife.  Would Jojo be happy there? No.  Lauren B?  I say no, too.

Same with Chris Soules.  I mean, just go to effing Des Moines and find a farm girl.   All my relatives are from Iowa and I'm here to tell you:  there are plenty of cute women in Iowa, and Minnesota and Wisconsin, too.

You have your bachelors confused. Ben lives and works in Denver, a fantastic place to live, so many options ... for EVERYTHING. 

 

It's Chris Soules who has a house outside a farm town so small there isn't even a stop sign. And Des Moines is NOT full of "farm girls." Des Moines is a major city, and finding a woman there who wants to be isolated in the middle of nowhere corn fields is pretty much impossible and not any more likely than finding one in LA. Yes, there are "cute women" everywhere, but do they want to date much less marry Ben (or Chris or anyone else)? Obviously not.

 

However, there are probably some crack-addicted acne-faced gals on welfare with six kids who have six different fathers who would JUMP (literally! Jump!) at the chance to marry either Ben or Chris. Or both. So yeah, "love" IS out there if you want to settle for whatever you can find.

Edited March 12, 2016 by saber5055

[ByTor]

(small voice)    I kind of liked Jojo's family.   Fun mom!   Protective brothers!   :-)  

I'd certainly rather marry into her family than Ben's.

You have your bachelors confused. Ben lives and works in Denver, a fantastic place to live, so many options ... for EVERYTHING.

I think the original post wasn't confusing Bachelors, I think the small town comment about Ben was a reference to Warsaw. I know he doesn't live there now, but so many people end up going back to where they came from.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

I want to know how Ben is going to explain to all those kiddies that are so near and dear to his life why his wife isn't the chick he was macking with at the gym that day.

 

ETA: BTW, the fact that they did not follow what I THOUGHT was usual format of announcing the new B'ette during this show, while 95% of me agrees that they'll go with Caila because they were trying to set her up as the most sympathetic, I have not given up hope that they may finally do something unexpected and make Jubilee the B'ette. Either that or else they really will go with whoever loses (or wins, depending on your view of this clusterf*&k) and make one of the F2 the B'ette. I'm sure they could manage to eff around with the timeline of filming if they had to.

Edited March 12, 2016 by PamelaMaeSnap