S20.E10: The Women Tell All

[chocolatine]

Oh my, when did the WTA episodes become such shrill harpy-fests? I seem to remember that originally it was intended as a behind-the-scenes look, and was mostly humorous and light-hearted. Even chicken Sheila couldn't save it for me.

 

I don't care how much Jubilee has been through, it's impossible to come off well when repeatedly referring to yourself as "complex", "deep", and the other compliments Jubilee has given herself. Like many adjectives, those are only meaningful when others say them about you.

 

I thought Caila looked much worse on WTA than she did during the season. Definitely a fuller face, but also the severe side part (it was almost by her ear) did nothing for her, as well as something about her eyes. Maybe she wore lash extensions during the season, but not for the WTA? I didn't notice a significant weight gain, but then she did wear black and was a lot more covered up than the rest of the women. Usually the future Bachelorette has had several weeks and the help of a professional glam squad to prepare for the WTA and looks better than she did during the season, not worse. 

[pitchy]

Here's a report on things that happened during the WTA that were not included in the broadcast.

 

  http://www.eonline.com/news/746829/the-bachelor-women-tell-all-13-crazy-behind-the-scenes-moments-you-didn-t-see-on-tv

 

 

[woodscommaelle]

woodscommaelle -- It took me a day to figure out my password so I could ask you…where was this? 

First house they visit. You'll see it when they're walking in.

[NikSac]

I saw on TMZ the tattoo was a fake and that guy is known for pranks

I really hope so. Otherwise it's pretty frightening.

[sarkygal]

Do we need to do an ancestral search and measure out the percentages on everyone we meet? Jubilee herself is not as dark as natives of Africa so I expect she might have a white ancestor in her Haitian family tree.

 

Africa is a continent of 54 countries, including the most ethnically diverse in the world. Not all natives are black, and a fair skin tone does not make anyone less black or less African. Just saying.

[Bossley]

Not to be repetitive, but how did the chicken enthusiast get eliminated the first night? Honestly, I think she is the prettiest blonde in the group. She even had a nice meet cute with Ben during introductions. Can she be the Bachelorette?

 

I feel bad for Olivia mainly because I cannot imagine how hard job searching must be for her right now.

[JudyObscure]

Africa is a continent of 54 countries, including the most ethnically diverse in the world. Not all natives are black, and a fair skin tone does not make anyone less black or less African. Just saying.

That was my point. Jubilee was claiming to be the only real black on the show because her skin tone was darker than Amber's or Jami's and I didn't agree with her.

[kia112]

Not to be repetitive, but how did the chicken enthusiast get eliminated the first night? Honestly, I think she is the prettiest blonde in the group. She even had a nice meet cute with Ben during introductions.

I, too, thought she was super pretty night 1. She didn't even bring the chickens like the woman who brought Lil' Sebastian, so it's not like he got rid of her because of weirdness.

 

That was my point. Jubilee was claiming to be the only real black on the show because her skin tone was darker than Amber's or Jami's and I didn't agree with her.

I don't remember anyone on the show saying that. And if they did, it never occurred to me that Jubilee had that opinion because she has darker skin. I think Jubilee had that opinion because her two biological parents are black.

[JudyObscure]

And if they did, it never occurred to me that Jubilee had that opinion because she has darker skin. I think Jubilee had that opinion because her two biological parents are black.

 

Ah well, maybe that was what she was talking about.  When she said that she was going to go further in the game than any "fully black," person I thought she must have being talking about skin tone since she has no way of knowing the parentage of all the other women.  As someone who does not believe there is any such thing as race, as we are all the same species, I believe it is all just family tradition of identification and self-identification, so any woman there could call herself fully black.

[SeanBottai]

People are on here are calling Jubilee an asshole????????? Steam is coming out of my ears reading that. She's a trauma survivor and orphan whose ENTIRE FAMILY DIED. That's what she's talking about when she kept referring to having layers. Do these commenters not get that?

[yorklee2]

US magazine is reporting that Caila is the next bachelorette. Wonder if they're jumping the gun or they really have inside information?

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/caila-quinn-is-the-next-bachelorette-all-the-details-w166313

Edited March 9, 2016 by yorklee2

[poopchute]

People are on here are calling Jubilee an asshole????????? Steam is coming out of my ears reading that. She's a trauma survivor and orphan whose ENTIRE FAMILY DIED. That's what she's talking about when she kept referring to having layers. Do these commenters not get that?

I don't think that having your whole family die means you can't also be an asshole.

[MyFangirlLife]

Man, Women Tell All is such a ridiculous episode...it's such a statement on how much this show preys on drama: "Let's just stick all of the rejected women in a room together and let them argue about things long past!"

 

BUT yesterday was International Women's Day so I thought I should give my gender a break for the day and try to name some of the things the ladies did right in my weekly blog series...here's the link if you feel like checking it out:

Tuesday Walk of Shame: What the Women Did Right on Women Tell All

[pitchy]

US magazine is reporting that Caila is the next bachelorette. Wonder if they're jumping the gun or they really have inside information?

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/caila-quinn-is-the-next-bachelorette-all-the-details-w166313

 

They mention she was seen filming an intro...  and apparently they then confirmed it.  Odd re the timing and no announcement last night though.

[yorklee2]

They mention she was seen filming an intro...  and apparently they then confirmed it.  Odd re the timing and no announcement last night though.

Right. I checked some other sites and they actually have pics of Caila with a camera crew filming her in her hometown. Could be unrelated but who knows.

 

Also they said the camera crew were spotted on March 2 and I'm not sure when the WTA was filmed but Caila looked really good and like her old self again. So maybe she had taken some medication on the night of WTA that made her face swell?

Edited March 9, 2016 by yorklee2

[piewarmer]

I kept waiting for Sheila to poop on someone.

 

Until I got my own chickens, I did not realize just how much they poop. Sometimes people who consider their chickens to be pets and want them indoors, or who need to bring them inside the house for protection from the flock or recovery from an illness will put little chicken diapers on them.

[Canada]

Oh man, Caila as the Bachelorette means more creepy dad.  Gross.

 

Every time I hear or read about Jubilee saying that she has layers, I recall Shrek saying the same thing in his first movie; then I remember Donkey saying that onions have layers.  Which is apropos, since I think Jubilee is a bit of an ogre and has a stinky attitude.

[ByTor]

We may never agree on Jubilee, but I think we agree that those twins were right royal bitches!  They really pissed me off.  I remember they claimed once they had the same "job".  I really wonder what that was?

I don't know if they have jobs, but I imagine their goal is to be vegetable-hating NFL cheerleaders.

This show DEFINITELY made me no longer feel sorry for Emily and the awkwardness with Ben's parents. The way those two were smirking with Amanda and whispering snotty comments when Olivia was talking made me want to smack them. I wish somebody would have scolded them and put them in time-out (Amanda should know what a time-out is since being a mom is her jam *eyeroll*) as you would a kindergartner, being that that is apparently their maturity level. Well, maybe Amanda has a right to be snotty...I mean, a part of every woman DIED when Olivia made that horrible, horrible, unforgivable "teen mom" comment *double eyeroll*. Also, the twit twins need to learn what "bullying" actually is.

Jennifer can STFU as well...sorry if it wasn't her, but I think she was the one who said "Are you smirking???" to Olivia.

[kingshearte]

I haven't watched this episode yet, and I'm leaning pretty hard toward not watching it at all, but reading all the comments has enabled me to articulate, I think, why I didn't particularly care for Jubilee, largely because of her going on about how complex she is. See, her point, as far as I can tell, was that her complexity makes her more difficult to really get to know than the other women, because she has layers. But by saying that, it seems like she's entirely discounting the possibility that the other women also have layers, and that maybe they are also complex and just because you've only managed to get to know that one top layer doesn't mean they don't have any deeper ones. It just seems so arrogantly clueless to me to basically state that people can only get to know you superficially because there's too much depth to get it all right away, but that the superficial knowledge of other people you have gained in that same period is as deep as they go.

 

At the end of the day, she may even be right, but the way it came across just bugged me.

 

And I'm sorry to hear that the twins reverted back to being juvenile mean girls, because there really were moments when I genuinely liked Emily. Maybe as she gets older, she'll mature out of the petty crap and into some of those flashes of being kinda cool.

[ByTor]

"You're on Mount Rushmore, Buddy!"

I forgot to ask, what the hell did that even mean?

[JudyObscure]

This show DEFINITELY made me no longer feel sorry for Emily and the awkwardness with Ben's parents. The way those two were smirking with Amanda and whispering snotty comments when Olivia was talking made me want to smack them.

 

Me, too,  about the twins.   I had been feeling all soft and maternal about them.   I had even defended them for living at home with their mother because it is Los Angeles, and I was thinking I would want to keep my daughters home and safe before somebody talked them into working some sleazy job like serving drinks in their underwear.

 

I wonder if the show was biding their time before announcing the B'ette until after audience reaction to the WTA show.  If so, I'm thinking they might change their minds and make Jubilee the next B'ette.  I've seen so much pro-Jubilee stuff on TV and entertainment  news.

 

I, personally, would love Jubilee as the one because she would be like none other before her.  I can picture her putting those guys through the wringer with her teenage diva stuff -- refusing dates if they're five minutes late, even if it was the camera man's fault.  No  excuses!   Pouting through whole afternoons, if things weren't going her way. Jerking her hand away if she suddenly wasn't feeling it.  Standing up her dates, while  huddling under a blanket.  There could be all sorts of Princess-style tests adapted from the Army, instead of sending knights out to find golden apples and slay dragons,  the bachelors could climb the wall and shoot the targets. This time we might get to see the men sobbing that, "She didn't even make eye contact with me!"  "She said that same thing to all  the other guys!"  It could be the most dramatic season ever.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I don't know if they have jobs, but I imagine their goal is to be vegetable-hating NFL cheerleaders.

This show DEFINITELY made me no longer feel sorry for Emily and the awkwardness with Ben's parents. The way those two were smirking with Amanda and whispering snotty comments when Olivia was talking made me want to smack them. I wish somebody

As someone posted above, the twins are lingerie-clad cocktail waitresses at a Vegas nightclub. Ben's mom must be on her knees thanking God that Emily won't be her DIL.

Amanda said in an interview that she is Lauren's B.s best friend. Sure she is....

And re Jubilee: a Haitian orphanage at that. Haiti. Anyone who comes from Jubilee's background and is a functioning adult gets a huge "mitigating circumstances" offset against any offensiveness, not that I found her the least bit offensive. And because I cannot say it enough, thank you for your service, Jubilee! Mr MML actually wants Jubilee to be the next B'ette because he thinks her bachelors and her interactions with them would make a much more interesting show (and he might get to see her in a bikini too). I don't think she is in the running but it would be interesting!

Edited March 9, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[yorklee2]

Me, too,  about the twins.   I had been feeling all soft and maternal about them.   I had even defended them for living at home with their mother because it is Los Angeles, and I was thinking I would want to keep my daughters home and safe before somebody talked them into working some sleazy job like serving drinks in their underwear.

 

I wonder if the show was biding their time before announcing the B'ette until after audience reaction to the WTA show.  If so, I'm thinking they might change their minds and make Jubilee the next B'ette.  I've seen so much pro-Jubilee stuff on TV and entertainment  news.

 

I, personally, would love Jubilee as the one because she would be like none other before her.  I can picture her putting those guys through the wringer with her teenage diva stuff -- refusing dates if they're five minutes late, even if it was the camera man's fault.  No  excuses!   Pouting through whole afternoons, if things weren't going her way. Jerking her hand away if she suddenly wasn't feeling it.  Standing up her dates, while  huddling under a blanket.  There could be all sorts of Princess-style tests adapted from the Army, instead of sending knights out to find golden apples and slay dragons,  the bachelors could climb the wall and shoot the targets. This time we might get to see the men sobbing that, "She didn't even make eye contact with me!"  "She said that same thing to all  the other guys!"  It could be the most dramatic season ever.

Can you imagine the snarking going on! I can see all of social media at war with their opinions. She would be loathed by many but she would most definitely not be boring. She is probably the most polarizing contestant ever.

 

Regarding the announcement, ABC hasn't officially announced anything yet. I did read somewhere that other contestants in prior seasons have been shown filming but then not gotten the lead. Maybe the show is just shooting some footage just in case but still haven't made their final decision. 

Edited March 9, 2016 by yorklee2

[Canada]

I would love a season of Jubilee.... so much snarking!!!

[saber5055]

Well, one thing we can be sure of, her job is not 'Twin'. :)

Or "Unemployed," like the b-ette from Little Rock. Or "Dog Lover." Or "Chicken Owner." Army reserves beats all of those "job titles" IMO.

"You're on Mount Rushmore, Buddy!"

I forgot to ask, what the hell did that even mean?

I know, what DOES it mean? And who are the other three "heads" on the mount? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

ETA: This is No. 8 from the E link above, scenes that were not shown on WTA:

"8. While Jubilee saying she's still in the army and is now a sergeant made the special, they didn't air her also revealing she was one semester left before she graduates from cardiovascular sonography school. "I live a normal low-key life," she said. After her interview was over, Becca was the first one to get up and give her a big hug."

 

Call Jubilee any names you want, but a war vet who is now a sergeant in the reserves and who will soon be a cardiovascular sonographer beats the heck out of the so-called profession of lingerie-clad cocktail waitress in Vegas or a "Jam Mom" or any other vocation, real or imagined, of those harpy b-ette shrews.

 

She's still my fav, complex layers and all. Face it: Most people think being "complex" means their colored hair tips match their nail polish AND their underwear.

Edited March 9, 2016 by saber5055

[violetr]

I don't care how much Jubilee has been through, it's impossible to come off well when repeatedly referring to yourself as "complex", "deep", and the other compliments Jubilee has given herself. Like many adjectives, those are only meaningful when others say them about you.

 

This, precisely.

 

Regarding Olivia, even though I loathed her, I felt horrible for her when she was in the hot seat. The WTA episode once again reminded me why I'm equal parts fascinated and horrified by this show. No matter how much people say "Oh I have no pity, they know what they're getting into," I think the contestants absolutely DO NOT know. They think they do, but all they see is the heavily edited episodes from the comfort of their living rooms. Most of them have no idea how they will be manipulated, derided, humiliated, and/or edited to look good or bad depending on the season’s narrative. I also think they generally have no idea how much abuse they’ll take on social media if they get a bad edit. Of course, the fact still remains that if you act like a jerk, that’s on you. But I also think that being in this situation (albeit willingly) does a number on your psyche and contestants often act out in really weird, out-of-character ways. I’m sure Olivia is being flamed and trolled in every possible way on social media, and no one deserves that. Well, maybe Hitler or Trump.

 

Also wanted to weigh in on the whole concept of crocodile tears, specifically regarding Olivia and Caila. This happens every season. Some contestant cries, then a bunch of folks say how “fake” it was. That's totally their right and to be expected given the phony nature of the show. I’m just not a grassy knoller. I tend to believe that when people cry or say they’re upset, that they really are upset. Do people on reality TV shows sometimes fake emotions? Of course. But I think faking emotion is actually a lot harder than people think. Your average reality contestant isn’t Meryl Streep. If Olivia says the last few months have been rough and that she’s struggled, who am I to question that? Knowing what I know about the way women of any kind of notoriety are treated on social media, I’m sure it’s been brutal. If Caila says she had her heartbroken and is still reeling from it, I believe her. YMMV, of course.

[bosawks]

I forgot to ask, what the hell did that even mean?

He has the personality of a rock.

[Canada]

I think that's insulting to rocks.

[BellaLugosi]

That was my point. Jubilee was claiming to be the only real black on the show because her skin tone was darker than Amber's or Jami's and I didn't agree with her.

 

She said she didn't say that. She admitted to saying fully black, which is different. "Real" indicates that the others aren't real. She didn't mean that. She means she has 2 back parents. The other 2 said they are bi-racial, so they don't. I don't see what the big deal was about her saying that. It's THEIR issue, and that's not her fault.  

[gator12]

I doubt that Jubilee is using complex and deep as compliments

[JudyObscure]

She said she didn't say that. She admitted to saying fully black, which is different. "Real" indicates that the others aren't real. She didn't mean that.

Four people said she said "real," and it took her a commercial break to come up with the, "fully,"  change.  The real point was that she had been bragging and putting down the other two women as not worthy for her contest of being, "first fully (or real) black woman to go far."

 

That's the thing about Jubilee for me.  She doesn't out and out lie but she shades things in her favor.  Being in the Army Reserves is a fine thing, but she let people think she was in the regular Army for a long time because she knows the weekend warrior reputation of the reserves isn't quite as impressive.  Getting a med-tech license to be a cardiovascular sonographer is also a fine thing but when Jubilee says she's "one semester from getting her degree," she gives the impression it's a four year college degree when it's a 12 month technical course, probably paid for and assigned as part of her Army job. 

 

Comparing her to the twins is fine, but there were  women there with four year college  bachelor degrees like Lauren H.   All Jubilee's accomplishments are great , she doesn't need to exaggerate them and as said above, it would be better if she let someone else do the bragging.

[leighdear]

If Ben is up on Mt. Bachelormore, I think he'd be up there with Jason Mesnick, Brad Womack and Juan Pablo Galvais.  All 3 were notorious in their own way, but I think Sean Lowe should be there instead of Ben, as the first and only guy so far to marry who he originally picked.  

 

And because I think Ben is a douchenozzle that doesn't deserve to be monumental.  

Edited March 9, 2016 by leighdear

[bosawks]

If Ben is up on Mt. Bachelormore, I think he'd be up there with Jason Mesnick, Brad Womack and Juan Pablo Galvais.  All 3 were notorious in their own way, but I think Sean Lowe should be there instead of Ben, as the first and only guy so far to marry who he originally picked.  

 

And because I think Ben is a douchenozzle that doesn't deserve to be monumental.  

 

Oh, I don't know, I think he deserves to be remembered as a monumental douchenozzle.

[BellaLugosi]

I just rewatched it. Before the break, she was denying she said "real". They were saying "real" and "fully" like they were the same thing. Maybe it means the same thing to them but it obviously doesn't to her. She also denied saying she's making it the furthest out of the black women. She said she would make it the furthest for a fully black woman. Again, it's their perception of her comments, not the reality.  After the break, Jami again brought up the "first real black woman" and Jubilee again denied saying it. She said she would claim saying the first full black girl. To which Jamie replied, that's still uncalled for. It isn't! Then she apologized if her comments were offensive to them. I don't think she could have handled it better. 

 

Who is the 4th one who claims to have heard? 

 

I had forgotten about this gem from Shushanna. "Even if you don't want to accept that you did say something, at least you could have said, if I did, I want to apologize." What kind of nonsense is that? Apologize for something you didn't even do?

[yorklee2]

This, precisely.

 

Regarding Olivia, even though I loathed her, I felt horrible for her when she was in the hot seat. The WTA episode once again reminded me why I'm equal parts fascinated and horrified by this show. No matter how much people say "Oh I have no pity, they know what they're getting into," I think the contestants absolutely DO NOT know. They think they do, but all they see is the heavily edited episodes from the comfort of their living rooms. Most of them have no idea how they will be manipulated, derided, humiliated, and/or edited to look good or bad depending on the season’s narrative. I also think they generally have no idea how much abuse they’ll take on social media if they get a bad edit. Of course, the fact still remains that if you act like a jerk, that’s on you. But I also think that being in this situation (albeit willingly) does a number on your psyche and contestants often act out in really weird, out-of-character ways. I’m sure Olivia is being flamed and trolled in every possible way on social media, and no one deserves that. Well, maybe Hitler or Trump.

 

Also wanted to weigh in on the whole concept of crocodile tears, specifically regarding Olivia and Caila. This happens every season. Some contestant cries, then a bunch of folks say how “fake” it was. That's totally their right and to be expected given the phony nature of the show. I’m just not a grassy knoller. I tend to believe that when people cry or say they’re upset, that they really are upset. Do people on reality TV shows sometimes fake emotions? Of course. But I think faking emotion is actually a lot harder than people think. Your average reality contestant isn’t Meryl Streep. If Olivia says the last few months have been rough and that she’s struggled, who am I to question that? Knowing what I know about the way women of any kind of notoriety are treated on social media, I’m sure it’s been brutal. If Caila says she had her heartbroken and is still reeling from it, I believe her. YMMV, of course.

Violetr loved this post. You took the words right out of my mouth.

[MsPH]

I just rewatched it. Before the break, she was denying she said "real". They were saying "real" and "fully" like they were the same thing. Maybe it means the same thing to them but it obviously doesn't to her. She also denied saying she's making it the furthest out of the black women. She said she would make it the furthest for a fully black woman. Again, it's their perception of her comments, not the reality.  After the break, Jami again brought up the "first real black woman" and Jubilee again denied saying it. She said she would claim saying the first full black girl. To which Jamie replied, that's still uncalled for. It isn't! Then she apologized if her comments were offensive to them. I don't think she could have handled it better. 

 

Who is the 4th one who claims to have heard? 

 

I had forgotten about this gem from Shushanna. "Even if you don't want to accept that you did say something, at least you could have said, if I did, I want to apologize." What kind of nonsense is that? Apologize for something you didn't even do?

 

That's how I remember it as well. I have a feeling that by the time Jubilee said whatever it was she said, Amber and Jami already didn't like her, maybe because she got a 1-on-1 while Ben was totally ignoring them. So they interpreted anything she said in the worst possible way. I mean it's well-documented by now, after three different shows, that Amber is a whiny a bitch who is always complaining about something, especially the people who are doing better than her. So they heard what they wanted to hear to justify their dislike of Jubilee. If they were really offended by it, then they could've told her then, instead of whipping it out at the WTA and making her look like some racist. It was a crappy thing to do IMO. She apologised anyway, so it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. She was probably joking in the first place knowing her sense of humour. She called Ben a "white boy" and he thought it was funny. 

[yorklee2]

Amanda saying that she felt better about Ben when she saw how upset he was after he let her go, kind of stumped me. Does anyone remember him being that upset? I sure don't. I may have selective memory since I wasn't really interested in Amanda but if he had been terribly upset I think I would have remembered it. The ones that stick out to me where he seemed most upset were Jubilee and Emily. Not saying he cared more for them but more the way he had to let them go upset him. Maybe others see it different than me.

 

I really don't remember that with Amanda though, but if it works for her..

Edited March 9, 2016 by yorklee2

[MsPH]

Ben was shown crying real tears and saying "I can't do this right now" after Amanda was gone.

[After7Only]

Ah well, maybe that was what she was talking about.  When she said that she was going to go further in the game than any "fully black," person I thought she must have being talking about skin tone since she has no way of knowing the parentage of all the other women.  As someone who does not believe there is any such thing as race, as we are all the same species, I believe it is all just family tradition of identification and self-identification, so any woman there could call herself fully black.

 

Maybe any woman could call herself fully black, but it doesn't make it so...LOL.  Being Black is about a whole lot more than just skin tone.  There are fully black people why skin tones the same and lighter than the biracial girls on the show.  There is history, culture, and shared experiences that goes along with it.  It is important to notice race, so that we can better understand how and why people are treated differently, or have different perspectives.  We are not all the same.  And that is 100% OK.  Seeing and understanding the concept of race, is why so many could see the coded language used towards Jubilee by the other girls (i.e. not fitting it with soccer moms).  Or why she was singled out for being different by the other girls.  Or why she was proud to be a fully black girl going farther than normal on the Bachelor.  

[Canada]

What coded language used towards Jubilee?

[JenE4]

I don't know what happened, but I think The Bachelor section of my brain got overloaded and deleted memory. I didn't remember anyone who was booted before Olivia...and maybe even some after, as I don't recall when she left. (Although I do recall she was left to die alone on a deserted island, being pelted by the surf spray.) You guys, I forgot Lace was a person who existed! I mean, I guess Olivia quickly took over crazypants territory, but how could I forget about Lace?! And I forgot there was a chicken enthusiast! To my dying day, I will never forget that this show once had a pantsopreneur. The made up job titles never cease to amuse me, so how could I not remember that they tried to make chicken enthusiast happen?! Granted, she didn't make it past night one, so I don't think "chicken enthusiast" was ever uttered beyond the opening package. It's possible even Ben was thinking why the heck is there a chicken here?

Obviously Caila was being auditioned for Bachelorette, but I also felt that TPTB were testing out Jubilee as well, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they were possibly considering her.

[JudyObscure]

Maybe any woman could call herself fully black, but it doesn't make it so...LOL.  Being Black is about a whole lot more than just skin tone.  There are fully black people why skin tones the same and lighter than the biracial girls on the show.  There is history, culture, and shared experiences that goes along with it.  It is important to notice race, so that we can better understand how and why people are treated differently, or have different perspectives.  We are not all the same.  And that is 100% OK.  Seeing and understanding the concept of race, is why so many could see the coded language used towards Jubilee by the other girls (i.e. not fitting it with soccer moms).  Or why she was singled out for being different by the other girls.  Or why she was proud to be a fully black girl going farther than normal on the Bachelor.

Insisting on retaining the concept of race says, "yes," to the explorers who first encountered people who looked different and tried to say they were so different as to not be fully human. It says yes to concepts that race "x" is less intelligent or more emotional or less energetic or less athletic than race "y." It refuses to admit that the difference between races is no more or less than the difference between blondes and redheads. It looks at Lauren H's soccer mom comment and reads into a code for "she wont fit in because of her race," when to others it meant "she wont fit in because she's abrasive and unfriendly." It say that Jubilee can't go far on Bachelor compared to all the other women, but only in comparison to other girls with the same amount of melanin. Losing the false, unscientific construct of race will not mean that you lose the history of your ancestors, it can only bring full equality closer.

[saber5055]

I kept waiting for Sheila to poop on someone.

 

I'm sure she pooped way more than once (also a chicken owner here). The surprising part is TPTB deciding not to show it. It would have been a great pooper. I mean blooper. *yeah,  I'm funny*

 

If there is a Mt. Bachelormore for special snowflake bachelors, don't forget Jake Pavelka. 

 

ETA: Harpies, shrews and outright beyotches come in all races and colors, as proven by this WTA episode.

Edited March 10, 2016 by saber5055

[deSchenke]

I know Lauren H isn't the most beautiful of Bachelorettes, but I liked her self-depreciating humor.  I really had hopes she had a shot at the Bachelorette.  She was the most poised and empathetic of anyone there.

[yorklee2]

Ben was shown crying real tears and saying "I can't do this right now" after Amanda was gone.

I remember him saying that line at some point but I didn't associate it with Amanda. Shows how much I was paying attention.

 

I watched the episode again and I was struck by the fact that Ben actually seemed more upset sending Amanda home then he did Caila. Now I'm starting to think when he told his mother that Amanda was "incredibly beautiful" he wasn't just trying to be more descriptive with his words (since he was calling all of them beautiful) but that he actually meant/thought that.

 

 

Obviously he probably realized he wasn't ready for children but I've often wondered if the producers encourage the leads to keep certain contestants around (Caila) that fit into their plans for the next lead. Ben himself is an example of that since I never saw much of a connection between him and Kaitlyn. She seemed much closer to Jared IMO but sent him home before Ben. If it's true that the leads know (for the most part) at least half way through the show who their final choice is then it's not going to be that much of a sacrifice to keep around a producer pick. Just a thought.

Edited March 10, 2016 by yorklee2

[After7Only]

Insisting on retaining the concept of race says, "yes," to the explorers who first encountered people who looked different and tried to say they were so different as to not be fully human. It says yes to concepts that race "x" is less intelligent or more emotional or less energetic or less athletic than race "y." It refuses to admit that the difference between races is no more or less than the difference between blondes and redheads. It looks at Lauren H's soccer mom comment and reads into a code for "she wont fit in because of her race," when to others it meant "she wont fit in because she's abrasive and unfriendly." It say that Jubilee can't go far on Bachelor compared to all the other women, but only in comparison to other girls with the same amount of melanin. Losing the false, unscientific construct of race will not mean that you lose the history of your ancestors, it can only bring full equality closer.

Think of Black as culture instead of race. No one would suggest that people shouldn't be proud of being Italian or Canadian (which isn't that what prompted Jubilees full black comments?). Acknowledging race does do any of the things you mentioned. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging differences. There is something wrong with making judgments based on those differences.

Edited March 10, 2016 by After7Only

[DriveInSaturday]

I said most of what I had to say way back before,  I want to clarify as to why I think Jami/Amber picking on Jubilee was also cry-bullying, as a couple people questioned me on that. (Twins on Olivia seems to be uncontroversial.) I'm not defending what Jubilee said, although I have no idea what she said as there is no film of it. I'm just saying that they were victimizing themselves as a tool to make Jubilee feel bad and create distance between her and the (mostly white and/or unfamiliar with issues of black racial identity) audience. Does anyone seriously think that Jami/Amber thought that "The Bachelor: The Women Tell All" was the best, or even a marginally decent, forum to have a nuanced conversation about the identity of biracial people and the language used to describe them?  And a strong point was made earlier, Jami/Amber (Jamber?) kept confusing whether Jubilee said "fully black" or "really black." Both of those terms could be offensive in context (again, not defending Jubilee on the merits of whatever she said), but the confusion about the phrasing showed me that neither Jami or Amber really remembers what was said, and were constructing it in a way that made Jubilee look the absolute worst, just because they didn't like her. The were opportunistically making a mountain out of a molehill to exploit a vulnerable person, confident in their support from most of the other girls on stage. I guess it comes down to proportionality and context, and I think that Jami/Amber's reaction was out of proportion and in such a context that I could only assume that they were tearing down Jubilee for air time.

 

At the risk of being boards on boards (tbt TWOP!), I thought another poster made a great point about why some people don't like Jubilee, and I want to add to it.

 

I haven't watched this episode yet, and I'm leaning pretty hard toward not watching it at all, but reading all the comments has enabled me to articulate, I think, why I didn't particularly care for Jubilee, largely because of her going on about how complex she is. See, her point, as far as I can tell, was that her complexity makes her more difficult to really get to know than the other women, because she has layers. But by saying that, it seems like she's entirely discounting the possibility that the other women also have layers, and that maybe they are also complex and just because you've only managed to get to know that one top layer doesn't mean they don't have any deeper ones. It just seems so arrogantly clueless to me to basically state that people can only get to know you superficially because there's too much depth to get it all right away, but that the superficial knowledge of other people you have gained in that same period is as deep as they go.

 

At the end of the day, she may even be right, but the way it came across just bugged me.

 

Ultimately, some people dislike Jubilee because they think that the way she expresses herself belittles the experience of others. But I actually don't think anything she actually has said or done shows that she really believes that other people don't have struggles or substance. Jubilee-haters draw that conclusion entirely from IMPLICATION. They make a series of slippery logical moves: "she says she's complex, therefore she thinks others are simple, therefore she thinks others are worthless, therefore I hate her because just because your whole biological family isn't dead doesn't mean you're worthless." Do you all see how many moves that is before we get to "Jubilee is arrogant and judges all these girls as less than her"? To make this firmly relevant to the show itself, I think some of the girls on the show definitely made those logical moves out of insecurity about their own depth, not because of anything Jubilee actually said or did. Maybe it was Jubilee's failure to reassure the other girls that they were worthy and deep and interesting that was her "crime."

 

Jubilee is a bad communicator who is full of excuses for why she is a bad communicator. It seems to me that her issues of shyness, struggling to fit in groups and difficulties expressing herself don't have anything to do with "complexity" at all, that's just her crutch for not working on getting better at dealing with people. It is hard to change how you socialize with people, and easy to make excuses for not making changes. But I don't see bad faith or judgement of others on her part. Heck, she appeared to really like Ben, who clearly has WAY less substance than any of the girls on the show except for perhaps the twins. I think, if anything, she wishes she could be confident and "normal" and bubbly, she doesn't see her awkwardness and introversion as making her better than other girls. Maybe she was even jealous of Jami and Amber as black girls who clearly fit in with the other women as that made it harder for Jubilee to use race as an excuse for being isolated and antisocial. 

 

TL;DR Jubilee is a bit of a whiny brat, and that's reason enough to dislike her. I think she makes awkward and stressful TV, and I wouldn't like to see her as the Bachelorette. However, imo, major judgements on her character are hard to support.

Edited March 10, 2016 by DriveInSaturday

[JudyObscure]

Think of Black as culture instead of race. No one would suggest that people shouldn't be proud of being Italian or Canadian (which isn't that what prompted Jubilees full black comments?). Acknowledging race does do any of the things you mentioned. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging differences. There is something wrong with making judgments based on those differences.

Culture is its own word with it's own meaning.  Nationality and ancestry are their own words. Diversity is great.  I grew up in a school in West Virginia with great diversity, children of chemical plant millionaires sitting next to children who lived in shacks "up a holler," whose father's fed the family through hunting.  They were all white but very diverse.  We don't need to continue to define people according to a vague definition of something called "race," that tries to imply that superficial attributes like narrow nostrils and pale skin mean anything at all other than, "my ancestors moved north from Africa and adapted to the cold."  "Race," tries to treat us like animals of a different species.  It was once used to say we shouldn't breed together. It implies that our DNA is different.  It contributes to profiling and stereotypes. It says we are far more different than we really are and denies our common roots and our common humanity and  it divides us. 

http://www.newsweek.com/there-no-such-thing-race-283123

 

Sorry moderators.  I promise not to say another word. Really.

[ByTor]

They were all white but very diverse.

I agree with your whole post, but quoted this part because I think this says a lot (well, this and the idea of "culture" and "society"). Even on The Bachelor, take someone like Shushanna. I'm sure as a Russian immigrant, white Shushanna didn't have the same experiences growing up as white Becca did.

Think of Black as culture instead of race.

Exactly. To me, it seems more important to understand and differentiate people based on their culture, not how they're pigmented.

[hyacinth]

I'm deeply bored with the whole Jubilee thing, but it never occurred to me that she was really shy, which puts a whole new light on her behavior for me.  She's a beautiful woman and would probably be an interesting Bachelorette but that shyness might make it too hard for her to kiss and show emotions in front of a camera.  I myself am not shy in the least but I would think once, twice, and then a million times before emotionally kissing someone for a long time on camera.   I don't see how they do it, frankly.  

I would vote for Jojo for the next Bachelorette, but I don't get a vote, obviously.  :-)    I've lived in Texas before and a lot of women in Dallas have a great sense of style, like Jojo.  I've never tried harder with my makeup and hair than when I lived there, 'cause I had to to compete!