S01.E07: Marooned

[kismet]

Catching up on the thread.... but here are my impartial thoughts ~

 

I did not like that episode. I did not hate it, but it just wasn't a good episode. It had great moments, but overall the episode was meh.

 

Prof Stein, Space Ranger saved the day!! I really love Victor Garber's portrayal of Stein. There are just so many layers he brings.

 

It was nice to hear about Rip's family, but do I really care? ~ not sure yet.

 

Hawkward was so ew and unnecessary.

 

The action scenes were still great. Some of the humor was still there. The character interactions on the whole were OK. The plot was dumb.

 

But 2 things I want to keep about the episode. I enjoyed the other marooned Time Master. Can we just keep her? And I loved that set where Rip & his wife talk about love, that location with the glass and the greenery was gorgeous. If the flarrowverse needs to reuse a location, I hope that one is on the list.

[kismet]

Holy shit did Snart just kill Mick? Nobody spoil me.

I don't know if he did or not... but I give the LoT promo editors props for not ruining the surprise one way or the other by showing us Mick in the next episode like they love to do on other Flarrowverse shows.

[wayne67]

Has Rip ever thought about going to a time before Savage murdered his wife and child and just picking them up ?

I mean he's already playing fast and loose with time. Why not just find your wife and child a year before they were murdered and dump them on some planet until you can kill Vandal Savage. That way even if he fails, his wife and child would be fine.

There's no downside I can think of. If he succeeds in stopping Vandal he'll save the world and his family. If he fails he would have at least saved his family from death.

 

For a time master, he doesn't appear very smart.

The episodes without Savage are usually much better than the episodes with him, which is not exactly a great thing for a series. Also am I supposed to ignore that none of these people seem overly concerned with killing a whole bunch of random Time Pirates ? Also what are Time Pirates?  

[kieyra]

This show is a hot mess. Too many characters, especially if Hawkbro is coming back, and much of the cast is not gelling. I literally don't care about anyone but Snart and Sara. (Snara?)

I think they tried to go too big too fast, and they are using little squabbles in place of character development.

Meanwhile, the cast is so large that I keep forgetting about various members as they move them awkwardly in and out of episodes due to the overcrowding of the board.

[MarkHB]

Just making sure I understand how Gideon works. She can take control of the ship in an emergency situation. She can see that Mick Rory is injured and guide his shuttle back to the ship. But she can't see that there's 10 other people traveling with Mick and warn the crew. Nor can she warn Sara and Snart that they're about to be trapped in a room with a hull breach.

Barry wrote Gideon. He was in a hurry.

(That's actually true, btw, per Season 1 of The Flash.)

I have no idea if the "no relationships" rule for Time Masters was part of the original comics or not, tbh.

I loved the canon references (Kanjar Ro!) And Sara's answer to "how does it feel to die" was really interesting, and probably insightful considering we will all go through it once, and yet at some level it's likely to be a very solitary experience, even if we're lucky enough to be part of one of those old couples who die together within hours of each other.

Has Rip ever thought about going to a time before Savage murdered his wife and child and just picking them up ?

I mean he's already playing fast and loose with time. Why not just find your wife and child a year before they were murdered and dump them on some planet until you can kill Vandal Savage. That way even if he fails, his wife and child would be fine.

There's no downside I can think of. If he succeeds in stopping Vandal he'll save the world and his family. If he fails he would have at least saved his family from death.

 

For a time master, he doesn't appear very smart.

The episodes without Savage are usually much better than the episodes with him, which is not exactly a great thing for a series. Also am I supposed to ignore that none of these people seem overly concerned with killing a whole bunch of random Time Pirates ? Also what are Time Pirates?

One of the rules they've established (although I don't know if they managed to get it on-screen amidst all the technobabble) is that you can't go back to a time in which you were already active. Presumably, if his wife and son are there, he was there too. That's my guess, anyway.

[NorthstarATL]

They made a point of Mick's having been happy in Star City 2046, so I am assuming that that is where Snart left him. When the Hawkman and Atom books were failing DC took a chance that combining them would increase sales. It didn't  work, but they were a go-to team often afterward, usually with Hawkgirl sidelined. Kind of karmic to hook up the TV versions of Atom and Hawkgirl then.

  Wouldn't the "no fraternization" policy of the Time Hunters have necessitated both parties being let go? It was about breaking the rules if I understood it correctly, so even if one left, the remaining TH still broke the rules. Stupid rule anyway. No group since the beginning of time has been able to corral emotions.

  Why couldn't Stein and Jackson become Firestorm once they were in proximity? I never followed the character, but I thought that was how it worked?

[ottoDbusdriver]

I've got several questions -- where did the Time Pirates come from ? Did they have their own ship ? If so, where was it ?  How did the the time drive on the Acharon get disabled ?  And where was the rest of the Acharon's crew ?

[wayne67]

One of the rules they've established (although I don't know if they managed to get it on-screen amidst all the technobabble) is that you can't go back to a time in which you were already active. Presumably, if his wife and son are there, he was there too. That's my guess, anyway.

 

Well he could show up to the time where his wife and child were cowering and he wasn't there and have Kendra stab the guy there... I mean they are ignoring the Time Travelers paradox anyway. Why not have him show up where his wife and kid died since he presumably knows where they died... 

 

I should stop thinking about this show. 

 

If I think of it as a comedy and not as a drama I can focus on the characters being amusing instead of all the logic fails. 

[twoods]

Continue to love this show because of the interactions between the characters. Every week they mix it up a little, and there seems to be some character growth. I'm on board with Ray and Kendra- he doesn't make her so annoying. Too bad her true love will probably be reincarnated, hence the dreaded love triangle (or quad depending on if Jefferson is still in the mix).

I would like to see the other time master back for future episodes. I would also love to see the professor have more badass scenes like he did this week.

[jhlipton]

1) If he fails he would have at least saved his family from death.

 

2) Also am I supposed to ignore that none of these people seem overly concerned with killing a whole bunch of random Time Pirates ? Also what are Time Pirates?  

 

1) As I mentioned above, that's obviously much more important than the millions of other people killed or enslaved.  Yeesh -- I hate the "this time it's personal" trope.

 

2) I think it was pretty clear the Time Pirates would have killed them,  The rest of the Acheron crew was probably dead (although it wasn't explicitly stated).  And Time Pirates are pirates that steal time!

[VCRTracking]

The Birth.Movies.Death titled their review of the episode "Of Ice and Men" which I thought was funny.

[FurryFury]

About Rip: I do think he wants to save the future from Savage too, not just save his family. I hope he'll have to choose at some point, actually.

 

As for why he couldn't just take them to the ship before they are killed... Well, logically, it should be explained that this would be crossing his own timeline, yadda yadda. Sadly, the show doesn't care about the logistics of time travel at all (which I hate - but I like some of the characters and the humor and the action, so I force myself to concentrate on those points), so it's something we can only hope they'll answer eventually.

[Sakura12]

I still don't care about the plot. I'm here for the characters and I'm liking almost all of them (Kendra still being the weak link). I don't think about the time travel logic, I'm just enjoying watching these characters interact with each other. 

[bettername2come]

I still don't care about the plot. I'm here for the characters and I'm liking almost all of them (Kendra still being the weak link). I don't think about the time travel logic, I'm just enjoying watching these characters interact with each other.

I agree. They've been together such a short time, but considering how many there are, I'm growing attached to them pretty quickly. I love to see new combinations of the characters and new layers to characters from the other series. Snart concerned about leaving Mick on 2016 not just because of his sister, but Laurel Lance and Clarissa Stein is impressive and believable growth from his time on The Flash.

[MissLucas]

Yeah, the character interactions are this show's saving grace. The sloppy time-travel 'rules', the basic premise (must kill Savage at convenient spot in time-line) and the weak villain sure as hell aren't. Basically nothing on this show works except the writing for the characters - impressive feat come to think of it.

 

I liked this episode (hey, it had Callum Keith Rennie in it whom I loved since Due South). I don't ship Ray and Kendra and I'm dreading the looming love-triangle but she becomes more of a real person around him (not just a former barista) so there's that.

 

And I think I saw the location where Rip and his future wife talked about her leaving the Time-Masters before on an episode of Stargate Atlantis. It's probably the Chan Center of Performing Arts in Vancouver.

[Sakura12]

As long as I like the characters, the plot can do whatever it wants. I'm a characters first kind of tv watcher. I've watched many shows with really dumb plotlines just because I loved seeing the characters every week. Once I stop liking the characters I lose interest in the show.

 

I came into LoT for Sara, now I like Snart, Stein and Rip. Jax is growing on me as the kid brother of the group. Ray being a dorky screw up has endeared me to his character as well. His relationship with Kendra just seems like they needed something for her to do because they had nothing planned for her besides being Hawkgirl and they think BR is romantic lead material when he is clearly not. Although they do keep putting him in fail relationships, Felicity was meant for Oliver and Kendra is meant for Carter. 

[henripootel]

They made a point of Mick's having been happy in Star City 2046, so I am assuming that that is where Snart left him.

They also made it clear that 'none of this is real' since the timeline would cease to exist once they 'fixed things'.  This was what gave Mick license to flat-out kill a guy, which is also bullshit (so a crime nobody remembers doesn't matter?).  Stranding Mick in Gangster Paradise (alternate-2046) would simply mean he'll never re-join the team.  Either the Team of Idiots (minus Mick) succeed and Gangster Paradise never exists, or they fail, GP exists, and the Team died somewhere in time.  Either way, nobody's going back for Mick.

 

Don't know why I'm trying to make sense of this show - they seem to have little interest in actually establishing rules, let alone following them.  They've got a pretty great premise and they're wasting it on by (let's be nice here) 'borrowing' bits from better shows. 

[Helena Dax]

Look at the flowers, Mick.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Legends Of Tomorrow Meet Time Pirates
And the run-in leads to the reassessment of certain relationships.

[spaulding]

I really hate that Rip is doing this for Twu Wuv.  Sure, millions of people will die, and millions more be enslaved, but if he can  just save his wife and son, why care about them?

 

Yup.  He still owes an apology to Sara.  Rip may want to save the world, but it's a distant second to saving his family.  And he lied to the team to get his way.

 

His wife was meh.  The actress playing Rip's wife was trying too hard. 

 

I didn't mind Sara losing to Mick, because it was a huge physically powerful guy used to violence. It was realistic. She can't always win.

 

I agree.  Plus, it would be boring if she always won.  She's part of a team, and she does well with a team too.

 

I did like the back and forth between her fight scene and Rip's fight scene.  She really is second-in-command.  She should be the captain, and Rip should be demoted to navigator.  Maybe something could get accomplished if Rip is sidelined.

 

Mick is a villain but I'm not sure I see him throwing in with Savage.  It's still a leap to actively join up with a mass murderer.

 

I agree.  Mick was mad that he's seen as Cold's lackey.  I don't think that he wants the same position on Savage's team. 

 

I feel bad for him.  Cold talked him into this adventure to steal priceless artifacts, and so far, they haven't done much stealing.  Mick gets the raw end of the deal; he's providing the muscle to help Rip save his family, but he really doesn't get anything out of it.  I don't blame him for getting antsy on a spaceship. 

 

Mick is very intuitive.  He knew that the Time Master was going to kill Rip and the team in White Knights.  He helped save Sara and Rip in Blood Ties.  He's more than a package deal with Cold.  Rip does need him as muscle, but he doesn't want to admit it because Mick is a loose cannon.  Besides, if Mick is basically worthless, he should be dropped off in Star City 2046 because that timeline doesn't matter.  According to Rip, who can fuck off.

 

I don't want any dissension between Mick and Cold.  I like their relationship, and hopefully, it'll be solid again if they appear on Flash or LOT's S2.

[Cekrypton1]

Okay show, either find money for Firestorm effects, or completely give up the Firestorm idea and just use Jax and Stein on their own. It's ridiculous that they are not using Firestorm and are finding DUMB ways for them not to use Firestorm. Or, hey Hunter, they are a team, quit sending them on separate away teams.

[slayer2]

I hate Rip, like I truly hate him. It doesn't get any better, he's despicable. Ugh! Also, I don't give a fuck about your family, bro. They're not worth the lives of the crew, man. No fucking way.

Edited March 7, 2016 by slayer2

[slayer2]

Can't disagree at all. This is the show I was most excited about, and it's the most disappointing, seeming to get worse each week rather than better. I feel like they used all their money on the cast, and had nothing left for the writers. This episode grabbed elements of several different other space shows, most notably Firefly, and rehashed them, but not only didn't add anything to the concept, but played the scenes off less effectively. Rip's storyline was really boring; they tried to flesh out his background with his wife and the Time Masters, but it felt like they were just going through the motions. I didn't get any sense of a love story or even chemistry between Rip and Miranda, the Time Masters and their "no personal relationships" mantra felt like a slapdash Jedi Council (which itself became a mere mockery of the mystery and intrigue of the Jedi from the original movies once Lucas released the prequels). The about face with Kendra and Ray since last week was abrupt and, again, no sense of chemistry due to Kendra's actress' poor performance. And why in the name of the Ideal didn't Stein and Jax turn into Firestorm to take on the pirates, again, rather than stand around and allow Rip to pull off the silly "shove 'em out the airlock" nonsense (Oh, but hey, it was a callback to the maneuver his beloved wife performed early in the show, so, y'know... it was a love note to her.)

 

I thought the fight scene parallels were interesting, if not necessarily well choreographed. And I love Dominic's Heatwave, as usual. He's been one of the real standouts since the pilot- and given much more to do than in his Flash appearances- so, naturally, they've written him out now. (Albeit, I'm sure, only temporarily.)

 

I think they really ought to jettison this Vandal Savage/Rip's family/Hawkgirl plot as soon as possible, find a real reason to keep this group together, and get them doing something else. I still think there is a lot of potential here, it's just sad to see it going to waste.

 

 

I don't know if it's possible to agree more with anything you've said here. I think not. Everything was spot on. Highlights: Rip Hunter is boring, the backstory is boring, Vandal Savage is no Lionel Luther nor is the actor a John Glover, The actress who plays Kendra (as much as it pains me to say this) just isn't delivering. The most compelling characters aren't getting enough time to shine eg. Sara. ColdWave. Firestorm. I think the chemistry is really amongst those five and the rest ....meh! Although BR is really selling it as Atom they just need to give him someone to play off of. I would be happy if they swapped out Hawkgirl for MK's VIxen and got rid of Vandal Savage and that plot point entirely. They need someone who's villainy is worthy of basing an entire show around, I know Mark Pellegrino is busy but there's a ton of other Supernatural cast offs that could fit the bill (it's the cream of the crop over there). Off the top of my head, the guy who played Uriel and the guy who played Loki come to mind.

 

 

Besides, if Mick is basically worthless, he should be dropped off in Star City 2046 because that timeline doesn't matter.  According to Rip, who can fuck off.

 

And all Snart's people said: A-MEN!

 

ETA: According to Rip none of them matter, as per the wonderful reason he chose them. To quote Leia as the theme has been "You sure have a way with people."

Edited March 7, 2016 by slayer2

[FurryFury]

They can't get rid of Vandal Savage, the season's been already written by now, and he's unfortunately set up as a too major figure to get rid of easily. But if we get s2, he won't be in it anyway.

[slayer2]

They can't get rid of Vandal Savage, the season's been already written by now, and he's unfortunately set up as a too major figure to get rid of easily. But if we get s2, he won't be in it anyway.

 

They can easily get rid of Vandal Savage, shows change course all the time, and CW is king of the test tube babies, they love to cater to fanservice. All they need to do is quietly wrap up the storyline from wherever they stand right now or they can recast him, do a simple body swap a la The Flash and poof! Problem solved.  They could kidnap a baby version of him and leave him in the future a la Luke Skywalker, I mean there are just so many options frankly. This episode made nary a mention of him and I didn't even notice he was gone.

Edited March 7, 2016 by slayer2

[Starfish35]

They're filming episode 14 right now IIRC, and the season only has 16 episodes.

[slayer2]

Cool, hopefully they'll take into account the audience reactions and kill him off for 1x16. I'm curious to know how this did in the ratings as opposed to other episodes featuring Savage, and how episodes featuring Savage do as opposed to one-offs that he doesn't appear in.

[Sakura12]

Rating so far.

1x01 - 1.2

1x02 - 1.1

1x03 - 0.9

1x04 - 0.9

1x05 - 0.8

1x06 - 0.9

1x07 - 0.9

 

Whether Savage appears or not doesn't seem to effect the ratings. He doesn't seem to matter that much to show anyway. He's just there for a plot. It's the characters that I'm watching for. 

[nksarmi]

Yea they planned the season to have him - I don't think he will be back, but they can't easily drop him at this point.  I got through Ra's on Arrow - VS doesn't bother me all that much.  At least he's consistent and isn't yo-yoing between playing misunderstood force for good "we replace evil with death" to nutzo "I'll tell Felicity to sleep with the man she loves and then brainwash that man to forget everyone he loves and force him to marry my lesbian daughter and produce an heir."  Yea, VS can't be worse than that, can he?

[Cthulhudrew]

Okay show, either find money for Firestorm effects, or completely give up the Firestorm idea and just use Jax and Stein on their own. It's ridiculous that they are not using Firestorm and are finding DUMB ways for them not to use Firestorm. Or, hey Hunter, they are a team, quit sending them on separate away teams.

 

Not to mention, why not use more of Firestorm's powerset? So far he's flown, absorbed a nuclear blast (admittedly cool), and shot what are apparently concussive fire blasts that don't actually burn at people. That's it. He's been little more than a human torch knockoff since they intro'd him on the Flash, which is a darn shame, because Firestorm is much cooler than that in the comics. He manipulates molecules! He could be doing so much more than he is, but the writers don't seem to let him either because it would be too expensive, it would solve too many of their simplistic plots too easily, or they think viewers are too dumb to figure out why the guy named Firestorm is doing something other than just shooting fire.

 

It would be pretty easy to keep the flash effects minimal, I'd think (and some of the transmutation would probably be less expensive to do than the fire effects, IMO), to explain that he can't use his abilities to their maximum yet because Jax is still learning, and is resistant to Stein's overbearing attempts to explain them to him (y'know, like in the comics?), and audiences are much smarter than they are often given credit for.

[Cthulhudrew]

Something else that just occurred to me while reading the (hilarious) recap here: Why doesn't Ray's suit have more oxygen capacity in it? Considering that when he's shrunk down to a really, really tiny size he might well find it difficult to partake of oxygen molecules, you'd think he'd need some kind of "on-board" system to cope for longer periods while shrunk down.

 

Yeah, yeah- I'm getting all "real world" scienc-y, and not being "tv dramatic purpose"-ful enough.

[justjoan]

 

Okay show, either find money for Firestorm effects, or completely give up the Firestorm idea and just use Jax and Stein on their own. It's ridiculous that they are not using Firestorm and are finding DUMB ways for them not to use Firestorm. Or, hey Hunter, they are a team, quit sending them on separate away teams.

This wasn't really the episode for more Firestorm qua Firestorm, though, since the entire thing was spent on spaceships. As Mick pointed out rather emphatically, fire and spaceships are not a good mix. If Stein and Jax power up, the best case scenario is that they promptly get smothered in fire retardant by Gideon or Gilbert. Other fun options include melting all the computers, frying them with radiation, using up the limited oxygen, blowing the whole shebang to bits... this time around, they were more useful as non-flaming people.

[scarynikki12]

Stein and Jax power up, the best case scenario is that they promptly get smothered in fire retardant by Gideon or Gilbert

 

Dammit, now I NEED TO SEE THIS and I suspect I never will.  It would be AMAZING!!

[FurryFury]

Cool, hopefully they'll take into account the audience reactions and kill him off for 1x16. I'm curious to know how this did in the ratings as opposed to other episodes featuring Savage, and how episodes featuring Savage do as opposed to one-offs that he doesn't appear in.

They've already said (before the premiere even) he's a one season villain, so yeah, he should be offed in the finale anyway.

[spaulding]

I hate Rip, like I truly hate him. It doesn't get any better, he's despicable. Ugh! Also, I don't give a fuck about your family, bro. They're not worth the lives of the crew, man. No fucking way.

 

ETA: According to Rip none of them matter, as per the wonderful reason he chose them. To quote Leia as the theme has been "You sure have a way with people."

 

Before Marooned, I tolerated Rip because he's an idiot.  After watching this episode, I realize that he's an asshole. 

 

From this moment forward, I will absolutely hate him when he talks about the mission.  The mission is to save his boring family.  If the team saves the world, that's a bonus. 

 

I will absolutely hate him when he barks orders.  His end game is purely selfish.  He doesn't care about Star City 2046, even it's the only reality that those people know.  Even when the pain and terror those people feel are real to them. 

 

Mick wasn't harmless in Star City 2046, but he was perfectly happy with his fur coat.  He wasn't the one who was burning the city.  That was Deathstroke Jr.  I thought that he and Cold were reluctant of Wilson's order to kill GA2.0.  I don't remember him being a part of the masses at the beheading.  (I'll have to re-watch.)  He certainly didn't have an active role in the scene, and I don't remember him being amused by it.

 

He saved Rip's ass in White Knights and still doesn't get any respect for trying to help.  Mick's in a bad place in Marooned, and Rip still crapped on him.  I couldn't believe that Needy Boy Scout piled on too. 

 

I did laugh when Head Time Pirate said that Rip Hunter is infamous.  Time Pirates across space and time fear him.  Really?  I bet it was Rip who created his own legend.

[Cekrypton1]

Not to mention, why not use more of Firestorm's powerset? So far he's flown, absorbed a nuclear blast (admittedly cool), and shot what are apparently concussive fire blasts that don't actually burn at people. That's it. He's been little more than a human torch knockoff since they intro'd him on the Flash, which is a darn shame, because Firestorm is much cooler than that in the comics. He manipulates molecules! He could be doing so much more than he is, but the writers don't seem to let him either because it would be too expensive, it would solve too many of their simplistic plots too easily, or they think viewers are too dumb to figure out why the guy named Firestorm is doing something other than just shooting fire.

 

It would be pretty easy to keep the flash effects minimal, I'd think (and some of the transmutation would probably be less expensive to do than the fire effects, IMO), to explain that he can't use his abilities to their maximum yet because Jax is still learning, and is resistant to Stein's overbearing attempts to explain them to him (y'know, like in the comics?), and audiences are much smarter than they are often given credit for.

Already Firestorm is too much of a deus ex machina (if he'd been used on the Acheron he'd have ended things in 20 seconds) that I understand why the powers that be downgraded his power set. But I agree that what they went with is underwhelming (and yet strangely, still the most powerful on the team.)

[slayer2]

 

 

I did laugh when Head Time Pirate said that Rip Hunter is infamous.  Time Pirates across space and time fear him.  Really?  I bet it was Rip who created his own legend.

 

 

Omg, I had a teacher who did that. Curiously he had around the same domineering personality as Rip.

[Sakura12]

We don't know if this version of Firestorm can do any of his comic counterpart stuff. Or maybe they haven't learned everything yet. This is still an origin story for them. 

 

Plus a space ship needs oxygen inside, having a man that is basically made of fire inside would suck up all the oxygen killing everyone on board except for them. So no, I don't think Firestorm could've saved the day.

[BkWurm1]

Okay show, either find money for Firestorm effects, or completely give up the Firestorm idea and just use Jax and Stein on their own. It's ridiculous that they are not using Firestorm and are finding DUMB ways for them not to use Firestorm. Or, hey Hunter, they are a team, quit sending them on separate away teams.

 

I agree, if the solution is to just have Jax and Stein merge, the show looks stupid but I assumed they can't while on board the ship AND as it was pointed out, Jax has to be wearing that three point thingamajig.  So I assumed it just wasn't an option.  They really should say If merging is a bad idea or not on the ship, Let it become more than an assumption. 

Something else that just occurred to me while reading the (hilarious) recap here: Why doesn't Ray's suit have more oxygen capacity in it? Considering that when he's shrunk down to a really, really tiny size he might well find it difficult to partake of oxygen molecules, you'd think he'd need some kind of "on-board" system to cope for longer periods while shrunk down.

 

Yeah, yeah- I'm getting all "real world" scienc-y, and not being "tv dramatic purpose"-ful enough.

Could be the oxygen issues was part of him having never tested his suit for space.  Under water (or immersed in a blood vessel) would be a different kind of pressure than the vacuum of space.  They did have him uncertain how his suit would function.  So it's not completely crazy.   

From this moment forward, I will absolutely hate him when he talks about the mission.  The mission is to save his boring family.  If the team saves the world, that's a bonus.

 

Not really.  He's convinced that destroying Savage will result in his family being saved but he hasn't tried to just save his family and as he pointed out to the Time Masters, what's the point of preserving the time line if there is no one left to appreciate it's preservation?  He is trying to save the world but yeah, it has a by product of saving his family.  He's the only one trying to stop VS and that it took someone personally motivated to do it, doesn't mean IMO that it's a bad idea or unworthy of the team's time and effort. 

 

Even Snart thinks Rip is right. 

Edited March 9, 2016 by BkWurm1

[spaulding]

Not really.  He's convinced that destroying Savage will result in his family being saved but he hasn't tried to just save his family and as he pointed out to the Time Masters, what's the point of preserving the time line if there is no one left to appreciate it's preservation?  He is trying to save the world but yeah, it has a by product of saving his family.  He's the only one trying to stop VS and that it took someone personally motivated to do it, doesn't mean IMO that it's a bad idea or unworthy of the team's time and effort.

 

Even Snart thinks Rip is right.

 

In the Pilot, Rip goes to the Council to persuade it to stop Savage.  However, the Council said no and said that in a few centuries, maybe the timeline will self-correct, i.e., the consequences of Savage’s rampage will be corrected.  If Rip’s timeline is the de facto timeline, he should have accepted the decision of the Council. 

 

Because Savage’s rampage occurs in the de facto timeline, maybe it should have happened. I'm going to assume that preserving time includes preserving the horrible aspects of history, e.g., the Plague, Stalin's purge.  I haven't heard Rip complain about stopping Stalin.  (Was it Stalin who gave the torture weapon to Savage?)  In fact, Rip wasn't going to stop Stalin.  He was going to stop Savage, who learned how to torture people from Stalin.

 

Assumingly, the Council and Rip knew about Savage’s immortality and slow rise to power.  At the very least, they had to know weeks before Rip's family died.  Taking over the world doesn't happen overnight. 

 

If he had an interest in stopping Savage, he could have done it before his family died.  He didn’t.  He finally felt motivated when it was personal.  Now, he wants to manipulate the de facto timeline only after his family dies. 

 

At this point, preserving the timeline is no longer the noblest endeavor.  Love is.  Love—his personal love for his family—is suddenly more worthy than preserving the timeline. 

 

I don’t think that stopping Savage is wrong.  I’m glad that the team is trying to stop him.  I don’t care what Rip’s motivation is, but what’s offensive is his disingenuous reason for stopping Savage.  He may want to save the world, but his family comes first.  Sara was right.

Edited March 9, 2016 by spaulding

[BkWurm1]

I don't see it as disingenuous at this point.  He did initially lie but we've known about his duel motivation since the pilot.

If he had an interest in stopping Savage, he could have done it before his family died.  He didn’t.  He finally felt motivated when it was personal.  Now, he wants to manipulate the de facto timeline only after his family dies.

 

At this point, preserving the timeline is no longer the noblest endeavor.  Love is.  Love—his personal love for his family—is suddenly more worthy than preserving the timeline.

 

I don’t think that stopping Savage is wrong.  I’m glad that the team is trying to stop him.  I don’t care what Rip’s motivation is, but what’s offensive is his disingenuous reason for stopping Savage.  He may want to save the world, but his family comes first.  Sara was right.

 

I guess I have no problem with this.  Don't care why he decided to stop Savage, it just seems like a good idea.

 

I think with Savage being an immortal, he's already cheating the timeline, so I don't see a need to preserve something that was warped by someone outside of the normal rules anyway. 

[slayer2]

 

2) I think it was pretty clear the Time Pirates would have killed them,

 

I'm afraid nothing on this show has been particularly clear.

[NJ RadioGuy]

One nice throwaway that I didn't see anybody bring up in the earlier:The odds of Ray Palmer surviving the cardiac arrest were 3720:1. About the same as surviving a trip through an asteroid field.

 

Also a nice shoutout to Last Man Standing. Captain Eve Baxter. Maybe her not getting in to West Point was a Good Thing for the timeline?

[justjoan]

Rewatched this one, and I'm pretty charmed that Mick apparently watched Pirates of the Caribbean at some point, and actually paid attention even though there's not a lot of fire in it. But c'mon, he wants to parley with the pirates to reach an accord? And it's not even Disney synergy, like over on Agents of SHIELD.

[Starfish35]

Ah man, it’s the breakup of Coldwave.  😢  

Another good episode.  Stein gets to live out his childhood Space Ranger dreams, we learn more about Miranda and Rip’s backstory, Sara and Leonard cuddle while freezing, and Kendra decides she can handle the complication of having a relationship with Ray.  

But the main story of course is the “final” break between Leonard and Mick.  Mick is on the edge anyway...”in a dark place” as Sara says...and finding out that Rip didn’t even want him on the team, but only took him to get Snart, pushes him over the edge into outright mutiny. You can see what a blow that is to him in his face...Dominic Purcell plays the scene so well.  And Leonard finally has to choose a side - the partner who’s had his back since he was 14, or the team he’s become increasingly bonded to.   Wentworth Miller does a great job of playing Snart’s agony at having to make that choice.  😢

[Sakura12]

Maybe don't make out on the same ship as your boss Rip and Miranda. 

I also loved seeing Sara and Leonard bonding even if it was because they were going to freeze to death. And Leonard asking Sara about what its like to die. Then we have Leonard realizing that Mick betrayed the team and he couldn't do the same. 

Sara fighting guys with lasers with a stick was all kinds of awesome. Her fight with Mick was also interesting to see and having Leonard choose her over Mick. 

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Maybe don't make out on the same ship as your boss Rip and Miranda. 

No kidding! 😂

[scarynikki12]

This was the first card game and general visual acknowledgment that Sara and Snart had become pals right? Their heart to heart in the cold was great but it’s that card game that show their connection. 

[Sakura12]

On 11/4/2019 at 10:32 PM, Starfish35 said:

No kidding! 😂

They knew they had to keep it a secret because dating wasn't allowed so they decide to make out in the hallway of the training ship. I guess that's showing us Rip was always a terrible decision maker. Lol