S03.E14: Final Decision, Pt. 2

[kira28]

As an introvert I feel the need to defend Neil (if he is one) Being around someone like Sam who is always "on" making stupid faces, weird noises, being loud and "quirky" who is always sort of poking fun at you or insulting you under the guise of joking, someone that demands you constantly respond to them and if you do not respond the way they want you to, they start drama. Someone attention-seeking, self centered and always in-yourface.. for an introvert being around someone like that is exhausting. Being around people in general that you are not totally comfortable with is draining. While I am a friendly person and most people would describe me as "nice", after working all day interacting with people I am physically and emotionally drained and instead of wanting to go out and have a drink or go party with my coworkers or go out to eat in a noisy restaurant I just want to go home to peace and quiet and either run on my treadmill or curl up with a good book, watch a tv show ALONE.  When I was married or when I date someone, I enjoy their company. Several of my exes were extroverts and as long as I get my quiet time, get to be alone and recharge I am fine.

 

I think Neil was shell shocked, he was exhausted, he was like someone trapped in a room with a dog that might attack you. You try to placate the dog, don't make any sudden moves and just keep to yourself. You would be very cautious. I think after the verbal beat downs he took from Sam Neil was just trying to be on his best behavior so he could get thru the experiment. He did so many NICE thoughtful things for Sam. Planned a birthday dinner for her at a place she'd always wanted to go to, bought her little trinkets but they were very thoughtfully chosen. Sam wanted to show off her life, her interests so Neil obliged her. I feel like he honestly made an effort and once those efforts weren't appreciated or reciprocated and the "abuse" IMO was piled on he just gave up and went into survival mode.

[Matty]

Sam wasn't blindsided by Neil's decision. She said, through fake tears and trembling chin, that he was going to choose divorce and she deserved it. When he actually did her reaction was, once again, "me,me,me!". She ran out of the building crying and all the focus went back to her once again. I'm so glad Neil didn't fall for it and reconsider his decision. Neil is lucky to get out of that hell. When they showed the montage of Sam and Neil starting from their meeting each other at the wedding Neil's body language and facial expressions were totally different than at the end of the six weeks. He was smiling and expressive. He was laughing at Sam's weird, little dance down the aisle. He complemented her and enjoyed interacting with her friends and family. By the end of the six weeks he was like a walking zombie just trying to get by without any conflict.

 

When Sam was crying and saying she thought of her Grandfather and Grandmother's relationship and that's what she wanted I was thinking that Sam's Grandma was probably nice to her husband, Sam's Grandpa, and vice versa. That's how it works, Sam . If you want a loving relationship you have to show some love to the other person. She was nothing but cruel, bitchy, uncaring, and condescending to Neil the whole time and then she wanted him to stay in the marriage. Umm, no. Any self-respecting person is not going to put up with your antics. I hope Sam learned from this experiment like she said she did.

 

The next day at the house she was trying to act so cool and like she didn't care. Another act. Neil was very reasonable and tried to have an adult discussion with her. He's friend zoned Sam. No romantic feelings there and no physical attraction at all. I don't know why he wants to be friends. He's being way more polite than he needs to be. I hope, hope, hope he doesn't get roped in by Sam's manipulations and we hear that they're giving it another chance at the reunion show. That would be a big mistake.

[Vinyasa]

I must admit, all of them (except Ashley who is forever stuck on the "he broke my trust" line) seemed much more real and less scripted in the after show thing with Jamie.

[SnarkKitty]

Also when David was doing has last speech to Ashley about why he needed to not talk to her, he said, "I have to do what's best for me and that's to leave." I wished he would have nonchalantly added, "The last time something like this happened, the police were called and I accidentally threatened to slit someone's throat." Then calmly walked out the door. These people are creeeepy!

 

[correcting my own post] Even better, he said "If there's a silver lining in all this, the good thing about this being over is now I get to worry about what's best for me, and that's to leave." Boom! Take THAT Miss Ashley, since the only thing she appreciated about David was how much he kissed her ass and catered to her.

 

 

Ditto "wifey."

 

I haaaate "wifey!" When the hubs* wants to piss me off, he'll call me that.

 

*Yeah, I know. :)

Edited March 4, 2016 by SnarkKitty

[allthelight]

Vanessa and Tres had a huge fight on decision day:

She explained that, “Tres and I had discussions about staying married several weeks before our decision day (which is why we also discussed living arrangements after our decision day on a prior episode) and although we had a big blow up that same morning, as a wife I chose to keep my word and stick it out.”

http://realmrhousewife.com/2016/03/03/vanessa-nelson-mafs-talks-choosing-stay-exclusive/

[DangerousMinds]

To be fair, I think Neil was also involved in vindictiveness given the cold way he kept his feelings a mystery until the very end and then unceremoniously dumped her.  Neither of them was above stuff like this - Certainly Sam is not above it but I think it shows that there is more flawed about Neil than he was willing to show on camera.  He can't possibly be that clueless and if he is that's something else negative about him.

 

Speaking of "Wifey", this is the same word we saw David use for Ashley in his cell phone contacts.  Coincidentally I just saw an episode of "Love at First Swipe" with Clinton Kelly and Devyn Simone where she tells a woman that the word "wifey" in current urban jargon means that you are aspiring to be a wife but not a real wife, or the next thing to a wife.  I wonder if the experts on this show have used that word and that's why the participants picked it up or maybe it's just something the young generation knows about and I don't!

I am old, too. I think Erica Jong.

[tinypeanut]

Sam wasn't blindsided by Neil's decision. She said, through fake tears and trembling chin, that he was going to choose divorce and she deserved it. When he actually did her reaction was, once again, "me,me,me!". She ran out of the building crying and all the focus went back to her once again. I'm so glad Neil didn't fall for it and reconsider his decision. Neil is lucky to get out of that hell. When they showed the montage of Sam and Neil starting from their meeting each other at the wedding Neil's body language and facial expressions were totally different than at the end of the six weeks. He was smiling and expressive. He was laughing at Sam's weird, little dance down the aisle. He complemented her and enjoyed interacting with her friends and family. By the end of the six weeks he was like a walking zombie just trying to get by without any conflict.

 

When Sam was crying and saying she thought of her Grandfather and Grandmother's relationship and that's what she wanted I was thinking that Sam's Grandma was probably nice to her husband, Sam's Grandpa, and vice versa. That's how it works, Sam . If you want a loving relationship you have to show some love to the other person. She was nothing but cruel, bitchy, uncaring, and condescending to Neil the whole time and then she wanted him to stay in the marriage. Umm, no. Any self-respecting person is not going to put up with your antics. I hope Sam learned from this experiment like she said she did.

 

The next day at the house she was trying to act so cool and like she didn't care. Another act. Neil was very reasonable and tried to have an adult discussion with her. He's friend zoned Sam. No romantic feelings there and no physical attraction at all. I don't know why he wants to be friends. He's being way more polite than he needs to be. I hope, hope, hope he doesn't get roped in by Sam's manipulations and we hear that they're giving it another chance at the reunion show. That would be a big mistake.

So I wonder what is really wrong with Sam?

 

 Some say she grew up spoiled but I think there are other things going on with her.  On another site someone posted they had an autistic child and Sam seemed to have similar characteristics.  According to them Sam may be high functioning but on the spectrum.

 

People her age don't usually act so wacky and immature.  How she looks down when having a serious conversation.  She throws a tantrum when things don't go her way during an argument.  She does not know how to compromise and seems self absorbed.   The faces she makes at inappropriate times.

 

What about when she and Sammie were talking about loosening the chair bolts so when a bank employee sat down he fell to the floor? She and Sammie thought it was hilarious.  This is what children do.  Did she get in trouble at work when this aired?   Sam went to another job this month.

 

No wonder she had problems in past relationships.

Edited March 4, 2016 by tinypeanut

[BunnySlippers]

Vanessa and Tres had a huge fight on decision day:

 

 

http://realmrhousewife.com/2016/03/03/vanessa-nelson-mafs-talks-choosing-stay-exclusive/

 

Thank you for posting that link. I have to say that now, having seen the decision day shows, I've come to appreciate Vanessa's stance that she mentioned in that interview:

 

"I tried to be as open as possible with Tres about any doubts I had so he could make the best decision for himself. I believe transparency is essential in this process.”

[Jennifersdc]

Thank you Baby Jesus! Is this finally over? It ended being a chore to watch. Probably only stuck with it cause of my husband (he'll deny it -but did also admittedly say it was a chore - like laundry).

IMO - my question is whoever told Ashley and Sam (mostly Ashley) were ten's (or even 8's - but not saying I am)? That was basically my first impression - they were expecting Brad Pitt to walk through that door. Then they moaned about being married to a stranger...what show did you think you signed up for bitch (excuse language)?

[Gigi43]

In some kind of cruel joke against me, the FYI site has replaced the actual episode with the short segment of Jamie interviewing the participants. So now I can't see the full episode; I watched the shorter A&E version. No way I'm watching that Jaime mess - Jokes on you TPTB!!!!

There wasn't an extended version on FYI this week. It ended a minute or two after 10, and thats with the preview for next week and saying to stick around for Jamie, not 10:15-ish as it had been all season. I guess there really was nothing left of the season! "World's Greatest Dogs" was on NatGeo at 10 so I had even extra incentive to not stick around for Jamie.

When I hear the word Wifey I automatically think of that Jagged Edge song which has to be more than a decade old by now. I've really only ever heard it in 'real life' used by people who aren't actually married, including girls referring to their best girlfriends.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Gigi43

[Liberty]

..whoever told Ashley and Sam (mostly Ashley) were ten's (or even 8's - but not saying I am)? ....

 

A good guess might be Sam's father and Stashley's mother.

[Evil Queen]

So I wonder what is really wrong with Sam?

 

 Some say she grew up spoiled but I think there are other things going on with her.  On another site someone posted they had an autistic child and Sam seemed to have similar characteristics.  According to them Sam may be high functioning but on the spectrum.

 

People her age don't usually act so wacky and immature.  How she looks down when having a serious conversation.  She throws a tantrum when things don't go her way during an argument.  She does not know how to compromise and seems self absorbed.   The faces she makes at inappropriate times.

 

What about when she and Sammie were talking about loosening the chair bolts so when a bank employee sat down he fell to the floor? She and Sammie thought it was hilarious.  This is what children do.  Did she get in trouble at work when this aired?   Sam went to another job this month.

 

No wonder she had problems in past relationships.

 

She is a narcissistic person. That is her issue. For me the whole not looking up or directly at someone was the fact that she was lying when she would do that. If you look up what a narcissistic person is she has classic signs of it. I know a few of us have dealt with those types and saw it. God forbid that girl ever have kids. I know from that side of things how miserable it is in that situation with a mom that is a narcissist. They like to throw tantrums like a toddler when things don't go how they want, they use guilt trips, cry at the drop of a pin if it helps get them their way, make you feel its always your fault for things, and put you down left and right until you are broken....they try to do whatever they can to keep you there. Its a miserable and draining life I wouldn't wish on anyone. 

[Truegem]

Haven't read every post in this thread, so it may already be mentioned. But who thinks Sam and David and Ashley and Neil would have been better matches? I do. Especially Sam and David.

[Snarklepuss]

Exactly. He was the one who invited her out to do friends-stuff together. I don't think it was because he was oh, so afraid of her. He could have just said his good-byes and that would have been it. So, why did he want to get together with her? If he thought she was so awful (which, of course, she was, especially in the beginning), then why did he want to continue some kind of relationship with her? Is it because he felt guilty, or, like someone has suggested, he collects ex-girlfriends/friends, or is it because he actually had fun with her? I'm really curious to find out what happened in those 6 months after his decision.

 

And yes, what was so misleading was that he bought her gifts, he seemed to have fun with her, etc. So in that sense he wasn't closed off. But I think that when it came to showing his emotions and talking about what he really felt about their relationship (before Decision Day) he was closed off.

 

I agree with you - I think Neil may just not be comfortable in relationships that demand too much emotional involvement and that's why he collects women as friends.  I think Neil is partially closed off emotionally and only lets women (or people in general) in so far.  That's why I think friendship is more his speed than an intimate relationship.  It's just the arm's length that he is comfortable with.  Also he doesn't have the emotional baggage from breaking up that people who get really close to someone have so it's easy for him to suggest being friends.  The fact that he did it with another woman makes me think this is something about him and not the women, although he never would have been a match with Sam because of Sam anyway.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Snarklepuss]

As an introvert I feel the need to defend Neil (if he is one) Being around someone like Sam who is always "on" making stupid faces, weird noises, being loud and "quirky" who is always sort of poking fun at you or insulting you under the guise of joking, someone that demands you constantly respond to them and if you do not respond the way they want you to, they start drama. Someone attention-seeking, self centered and always in-yourface.. for an introvert being around someone like that is exhausting. Being around people in general that you are not totally comfortable with is draining. While I am a friendly person and most people would describe me as "nice", after working all day interacting with people I am physically and emotionally drained and instead of wanting to go out and have a drink or go party with my coworkers or go out to eat in a noisy restaurant I just want to go home to peace and quiet and either run on my treadmill or curl up with a good book, watch a tv show ALONE.  When I was married or when I date someone, I enjoy their company. Several of my exes were extroverts and as long as I get my quiet time, get to be alone and recharge I am fine.

 

I think Neil was shell shocked, he was exhausted, he was like someone trapped in a room with a dog that might attack you. You try to placate the dog, don't make any sudden moves and just keep to yourself. You would be very cautious. I think after the verbal beat downs he took from Sam Neil was just trying to be on his best behavior so he could get thru the experiment. He did so many NICE thoughtful things for Sam. Planned a birthday dinner for her at a place she'd always wanted to go to, bought her little trinkets but they were very thoughtfully chosen. Sam wanted to show off her life, her interests so Neil obliged her. I feel like he honestly made an effort and once those efforts weren't appreciated or reciprocated and the "abuse" IMO was piled on he just gave up and went into survival mode.

 

While I agree with you in general about Neil feeling drained and definitely about Sam being demanding and over-taxing him, I think most women would drain Neil because as I said in my previous post, I think don't think he would be comfortable with the level of intimate emotional interaction necessary in a marital relationship in general.  So I don't think his reaction was just his introversion at play there.  I also don't think it was just Sam's more extroverted nature that made him feel exhausted but the fact that she wanted him to interact with her on an emotional level - While I think she may have gone in a little fast for him emotionally I think it would be hard for Neil to get that emotionally close to anyone.  It might take so long to happen or never and most women would not want to settle for that.  He may get stuck at the friend level emotionally with them because he's not comfortable with more than that.  Neil strikes me as being afraid of getting too close that way.  He seems like he's all rational in his head all the time and has a hard time letting his hair down to just exist on an emotional level.  I don't think that facade of his was just with Sam.  In fact she commented that his friends said he was that way all the time not just with her.  I believe that.  What freaked him out about Sam is that she was ALL emotion ALL the time.  It wasn't her extroversion in general but her wanting him to relate on a feeling level that overtaxed him, in my opinion.

[Paddywagon]

....like Neil (who is really a mild-mannered normal man who just wants to go home.)

Aww, the feels this gave me! So true and insightful.

And I'm thinking Sam will be milking her 15 minutes.

[JaggedLilPill]

Part of me wonders if Neil is possibly demiromantic. I do also think he's introverted, but he also placed a lot of emphasis on becoming friends first, which I think is a good way to go about this process. But now that I am thinking about it, there may be more to it, and it's not that he's a cold fake person. For Neil, the romantic attraction would only come after a deep emotional bond has been formed. Not that he couldn't have found Sam pretty at first, but the lack of said emotional bond made it difficult for him to connect with Sam on a romantic level. And obviously her early behavior turned him way off that even if he did believe her turnaround was genuine, by that point in time, it was too late to really build a strong bond. At least, not within the time they had left. 

 

Of course, I could be totally off, but it's interesting to think about. 

[Snarklepuss]

I am old, too. I think Erica Jong.

 

I think of Judy Blume's 1978 book, "Wifey". 

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0425206548?ie=UTF8&tag=washpost-style-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=0425206548

[zooey]

Part of me wonders if Neil is possibly demiromantic. I do also think he's introverted, but he also placed a lot of emphasis on becoming friends first, which I think is a good way to go about this process. But now that I am thinking about it, there may be more to it, and it's not that he's a cold fake person. For Neil, the romantic attraction would only come after a deep emotional bond has been formed. Not that he couldn't have found Sam pretty at first, but the lack of said emotional bond made it difficult for him to connect with Sam on a romantic level. And obviously her early behavior turned him way off that even if he did believe her turnaround was genuine, by that point in time, it was too late to really build a strong bond. At least, not within the time they had left. 

 

Of course, I could be totally off, but it's interesting to think about. 

 

Assuming that you're correct, then what the hell were these experts doing asleep at the wheel? With their barrage of tests, surely they should have been able to tell that such a person would be a lousy candidate for a show of this format. This only goes to show that the selection and matching process was anything but scientific and that whatever "success" they had could be chalked up to beginner's luck. 

 

Good observation, btw. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by zooey

[hatchetgirl]

Ok so why all this Neil is the bad guy talk. Let's go back...

1. He thought she was beautiful and was excited to meet and marry her.

2. She made him wait because she a nightmare.

3. She was acting like a fool during the ceremony.

4. He picked up on her not wanting to be kissed on the mouth so he gave her a Peck on the cheek.

5. She constantly called into question his manhood.

6. He calmly put up with it and tried to discuss it with her.

7. She acted like a child about the water.

8. The almost accident and he calmed her down.

9. She made him move into her place, with her best friend.

10. She refused to look for a place and when he said he'd do it, she threw him out.

11. They got the new place but they were back at hers?

Of course he closed off. If I berated my husband and questioned his manhood, he'd close off too.

I do think he is a quirky guy. He was with his ex for 6yrs, I think, and they are still friends? This is not a bad guy. He has marks of being a quiet gentleman, who loved the idea of marriage and tried his best. I think when she made him move into her place is when he realized the marriage was going no where fast.

I hope he finds a kind, supportive, loving wife. He deserves it.

Sam can rot.

[ClareWalks]

My theory is that Sam has ADHD which she self-medicates with marijuana. I have no proof of this, just a vibe I get.

[WichitaStateShock]

My theory is that Sam has ADHD which she self-medicates with marijuana. I have no proof of this, just a vibe I get.

I can totally see this. I can also see the side of people who thinks she is a narcissist. She makes me go hmmmmmm... I just don't know what to think

[Vinyasa]

I think Neil explained it the best in the after show with Jamie.

 

He said he was really attracted to Sam at the wedding and became less and less attracted to her. Sam was not attracted to him at the wedding and become more and more attracted to him.

[ClareWalks]

I can totally see this. I can also see the side of people who thinks she is a narcissist. She makes me go hmmmmmm... I just don't know what to think

 

Adult ADHD and narcissism can go hand in hand, I agree that she is definitely a narcissist too ;) Just a disaster, that girl! (Note: nothing wrong with people with ADHD, but self-medicating something is always a bad idea)

[BunnySlippers]

Assuming that you're correct, then what the hell were these experts doing asleep at the wheel? With their barrage of tests, surely they should have been able to tell that such a person would be a lousy candidate for a show of this format. This only goes to show that the selection and matching process was anything but scientific and that whatever "success" they had could be chalked up to beginner's luck. 

 

Good observation, btw. 

Great point. Nothing wrong with someone taking a long time to form an emotional bond with someone else (though, like Snarklepuss said, a lot of women would not have the patience to wait that out), but this show is definitely not for someone who has that kind of personality.

 

Too bad that he got matched with Sam. I wonder how things would have gone for him if he'd been matched with someone more like him.

 

Ok so why all this Neil is the bad guy talk. Let's go back...

1. He thought she was beautiful and was excited to meet and marry her.

2. She made him wait because she a nightmare.

3. She was acting like a fool during the ceremony.

4. He picked up on her not wanting to be kissed on the mouth so he gave her a Peck on the cheek.

5. She constantly called into question his manhood.

6. He calmly put up with it and tried to discuss it with her.

7. She acted like a child about the water.

8. The almost accident and he calmed her down.

9. She made him move into her place, with her best friend.

10. She refused to look for a place and when he said he'd do it, she threw him out.

11. They got the new place but they were back at hers?

Of course he closed off. If I berated my husband and questioned his manhood, he'd close off too.

I do think he is a quirky guy. He was with his ex for 6yrs, I think, and they are still friends? This is not a bad guy. He has marks of being a quiet gentleman, who loved the idea of marriage and tried his best. I think when she made him move into her place is when he realized the marriage was going no where fast.

I hope he finds a kind, supportive, loving wife. He deserves it.

Sam can rot.

I don't think that anybody here is saying that Neil is the bad guy. I personally think he's a good person, I just didn't like the way he handled some things.

 And, while your timeline is correct, it only goes halfway through the show. There were also these things:

 

12. He pushed for moving into a new house, which they did.

13. Things seemed to be going better, and they seemed to be having fun together. Though, Sam was still her old self when she grabbed and rubbed his face despite him telling her that he didn't like it when people touched his face.

14. When he went away on a trip, he told Sam he didn't miss her.

15. She got upset, so he bought her a bunch of gifts - which she was very happy about.

16. He seemed to be excited about the wedding pictures.

17. They went fishing together, and he seemed to be having a good time. Sam gave him a piggyback ride, which he seemed to enjoy.

18. They went rock climbing, which is something he likes. They had fun.

19. Sam was getting flirty, and obviously wanted to stay together.

20. He didn't tell her how he felt.

21. On decision day, in front of the experts and on camera, he said he was committed... He wanted a divorce.

 

I might not have everything in order and I might have forgotten some things, but if we talk about the things that happened between them, I think we should also talk about the second half of their time together.

 

And again, I'm not defending Sam, I thought she was terrible to him, but I don't put Neil on a pedestal either.

Edited March 4, 2016 by BunnySlippers

[JaggedLilPill]

Assuming that you're correct, then what the hell were these experts doing asleep at the wheel? With their barrage of tests, surely they should have been able to tell that such a person would be a lousy candidate for a show of this format. This only goes to show that the selection and matching process was anything but scientific and that whatever "success" they had could be chalked up to beginner's luck. 

 

Good observation, btw. 

 

Thanks :)

 

I'm definitely by no means an expert on it, but the fact that Neil's ex is one of his BFF's kind of makes me think he values that part of a relationship more than anything. Although he did say he wanted that passionate relationship, again, with Neil, I lean towards that only happening when he has really had the time to connect with someone. Just a theory! He definitely could have had an initial attraction to Sam based on looks, but it dwindled when he realized they couldn't connect emotionally.

 

And yes, that is on the experts. I don't think Neil lied or anything, but perhaps they thought because of his background (grandparents in an arranged marriage) that even if it takes Neil slightly longer to warm up to people that he would be more inclined to stick it out.

 

The same thing could be said of Ashley. Why/how she was picked is beyond me since they knew she's stuck on looks. I just realized, I see Neil and Ashley as opposite sides of the coin. Neil needs an emotional attraction before it becomes romantic; Ashley needs a physical attraction before it becomes romantic. That being said, I find Neil much more genuine and nice than Ashley. Neil at least wanted to be friends after. Ashley didn't even offer an olive branch.

 

I don't think these experts have any idea whatsoever what they are doing, and I don't doubt they match them based on who will be a more entertaining couple rather than who will actually be a good match. Although Ashley and David were so boring to watch that I am not sure what they thought could come from them. 

[Paddywagon]

My theory is that Sam has ADHD which she self-medicates with marijuana. I have no proof of this, just a vibe I get.

And the waxes.

And the hookah.

And we saw her with alcohol.

And she needs that sanctuary (Sammie's room)

Yeah, looks like she needs a lot of lot of stuff to cope. Girl's got something she's trying to self-fix.

Way to pick 'em, experts!

Neil never saw it coming...

[BBDi]

I think Neil explained it the best in the after show with Jamie.

He said he was really attracted to Sam at the wedding and became less and less attracted to her. Sam was not attracted to him at the wedding and become more and more attracted to him.

I think this makes it clearer what he was struggling with, but probably leaves a lot unsaid. Like was he actively turned off by certain behaviors or just kind of demoralized by her initial behavior.

I think toward the end he probably grappled with whether he should try harder to respond to her when she warmed up to him or whether it was even possible for him to change his feelings.

I also think even though he could explain this to Jamie at a later point in time that he couldn't find a way to communicate it to Sam before decision time that wouldn't be hurtful to her. I think that would be a challenging conversation to have, especially with her - but could have been possible.

But you know - this is probably part of what she was sensing and why she thought he prob would ask for a divorce.

And the waxes.

And the hookah.

And we saw her with alcohol.

And she needs that sanctuary (Sammie's room)

Yeah, looks like she needs a lot of lot of stuff to cope. Girl's got something she's trying to self-fix.

Way to pick 'em, experts!

Neil never saw it coming...

I see those things as a way to manage anxiety - I say that as I sit here with my Himalayan salt lamp, the tea that I like to drink from a particular cup, needing to have a little cozy place to retreat to.

Of course lots of people - including my daughter - have ADHD and anxiety.

[Meowwww]

As an introvert I feel the need to defend Neil (if he is one) Being around someone like Sam who is always "on" making stupid faces, weird noises, being loud and "quirky" who is always sort of poking fun at you or insulting you under the guise of joking, someone that demands you constantly respond to them and if you do not respond the way they want you to, they start drama. Someone attention-seeking, self centered and always in-yourface.. for an introvert being around someone like that is exhausting. Being around people in general that you are not totally comfortable with is draining. While I am a friendly person and most people would describe me as "nice", after working all day interacting with people I am physically and emotionally drained and instead of wanting to go out and have a drink or go party with my coworkers or go out to eat in a noisy restaurant I just want to go home to peace and quiet and either run on my treadmill or curl up with a good book, watch a tv show ALONE. When I was married or when I date someone, I enjoy their company. Several of my exes were extroverts and as long as I get my quiet time, get to be alone and recharge I am fine.

I think Neil was shell shocked, he was exhausted, he was like someone trapped in a room with a dog that might attack you. You try to placate the dog, don't make any sudden moves and just keep to yourself. You would be very cautious. I think after the verbal beat downs he took from Sam Neil was just trying to be on his best behavior so he could get thru the experiment. He did so many NICE thoughtful things for Sam. Planned a birthday dinner for her at a place she'd always wanted to go to, bought her little trinkets but they were very thoughtfully chosen. Sam wanted to show off her life, her interests so Neil obliged her. I feel like he honestly made an effort and once those efforts weren't appreciated or reciprocated and the "abuse" IMO was piled on he just gave up and went into survival mode.

THIS THIS and THIS!!!!!!!!

As a fellow introvert, I couldn't have said it better myself (I am on my lunch break, sitting alone in my car, recharging).

And as an introvert who used to live with a narcissist of the worst sort (my feet still hurt 6 years after I left from all the eggshells) I felt I could totally relate to Neil. When someone puts you down so much, you feel triumph when you work up the courage and dare to zing back. I felt Neil's breathlessness when he told Sam he didn't miss her...and totally get his giving her gifts. When you live life being afraid to poke the sleeping bear, it gets old really fast.

[Jusagirlintheworld]

Bunny Slippers nailed it. Neil seriously confuses me.

Sam was awful at the beginning. No debate. Many men would've mentally checked out. Not Neil. In fact, Neil made almost no protest nor set any limits.

At first, he seemed to react normally. He stood up to her once on the honeymoon. Notrmal. I didn't even think it was unusual for him to agree to pay 60% of the bills. I figured that he was giving her the benefit of the doubt and he could renegotiate later.

Then, Sam insisted that he move into her home and refused to give him a key. I kept waiting for him to say no. Or even to go back to his house. Not Neil. He moves in and says ok. Sure he made some feeble suggestions that he wanted to get a new house. But he sounded like the basement guy in Office Space asking for his stapler.

I kept waiting for him to put his foot down, express his needs, make demands, express frustration, something. Instead, he reiterated he was committed to her and the marriage. He trucked on, making overtures. He acquainted himself with her culture, cooking for her, etc. Finally, I decided that he must have the patience of a saint. (Now, I wonder if he was plotting his passive-aggressive revenge.)

Then his patience started paying off. They move into a new house. Sam told him she missed him. He said he was surprised and touched at her feelings. He said that he was excited that the relationship was turning around. He bought her gifts. Not just tokens. Thoughtful gifts that he knew she would like, things she had wished for. She hugged him and kissed his check. He smiled broadly. Athough Neil's behavior is generally very subdued, he clearly showed excitement and enthusiasm when she had more wedding pictures made. He said they were beautiful and that he loved them.

He initiated and reciprocated substantial physical interaction with Sam on the fishing trip. He carried her piggyback and let her carry him piggyback. She kissed him in the car. He smiled. She make a joke that she just wanted him to be sure that her lips weren't chapped. He smile and agreed that it would be good to know, joining in on the joke.

She confessed that she believed in ghosts. He clearly didn't, but he smiled as he watched her excitement. He said that it was fun to watch her have fun and spend time together.

On Decision Day morning, Sam asked if Neil thought they had more good times than bad times. (Clearly, she was "feeling out" what he would decide.) Neil didn't even have to think about it. He didn't just say yes, he said "abso-f*****- utely!" Sam smiled and they hugged each other and cuddled on the bed.

Hours later, an emotionless Neil coldly said he was committed (dramatic pause) to a divorce. As Sam runs out crying, Neil sits passive and emotionless in his seat.

The next day, Sam is smarting, but trying to maintain her composure. Neil knows the table have turned. He smiles and invites her to get together with him and do something as friends.

WTH?

Edited March 4, 2016 by Jusagirlintheworld

[BunnySlippers]

Bunny Slippers nailed it. Neil seriously confuses me.

Sam was awful at the beginning. No debate. Many men would've mentally checked out. Not Neil. In fact, Neil made almost no protest nor set any limits.

At first, he seemed to react normally. He stood up to her once on the honeymoon. Notrmal. I didn't even think it was unusual for him to agree to pay 60% of the bills. I figured that he was giving her the benefit of the doubt and he could renegotiate later.

Then, Sam insisted that he move into her home and refused to give him a key. I kept waiting for him to say no. Or even to go back to his house. Not Neil. He moves in and says ok. Sure he made some feeble suggestions that he wanted to get a new house. But he sounded like the basement guy in Office Space asking for his stapler.

I kept waiting for him to put his foot down, express his needs, make demands, express frustration, something. Instead, he reiterated he was committed to her and the marriage. He trucked on, making overtures. He acquainted himself with her culture, cooking for her, etc. Finally, I decided that he must have the patience of a saint. (Now, I wonder if he was plotting his passive-aggressive revenge.)

Then his patience started paying off. They move into a new house. Sam told him she missed him. He said he was surprised and touched at her feelings. He said that he was excited that the relationship was turning around. He bought her gifts. Not just tokens. Thoughtful gifts that he knew she would like, things she had wished for. She hugged him and kissed his check. He smiled broadly. Athough Neil's behavior is generally very subdued, he clearly showed excitement and enthusiasm when she had more wedding pictures made. He said they were beautiful and that he loved them.

He initiated and reciprocated substantial physical interaction with Sam on the fishing trip. He carried her piggyback and let her carry him piggyback. She kissed him in the car. He smiled. She make a joke that she just wanted him to be sure that her lips weren't chapped. He smile and agreed that it would be good to know, joining in on the joke.

She confessed that she believed in ghosts. He clearly didn't, but he smiled as he watched her excitement. He said that it was fun to watch her have fun and spend time together.

On Decision Day morning, Sam asked if Neil thought they had more good times than bad times. (Clearly, she was "feeling out" what he would decide.) Neil didn't even have to think about it. He didn't just say yes, he said "abso-f*****- utely!" Sam smiled and they hugged each other and cuddled on the bed.

Hours later, an emotionless Neil coldly said he was committed (dramatic pause) to a divorce. As Sam runs out crying, Neil sits passive and emotionless in his seat.

The next day, he invites her to get together with him and do something as friends.

WTH?

 

Thank you, Jusagirlintheworld. That was a great summary of why I, too, felt so confused about Neil.

 

He did move out of Sam's house, but then he was the one who wanted them to move to another house together.

 

I totally get the having to walk on shells thing, because I had to do that with both my parents, and now I have to do that around another close family member, too. So I know how that is. And I'm also an introvert in RL. So yes, I get those things. But Neil's behavior was just so confusing. He didn't only play nice with Sam face to face; he said all those enthusiastic things about how things were progressing and how committed he was and all that in his THs. Sam wasn't there then; it was just him and the crew. 

[izabella]

Hours later, an emotionless Neil coldly said he was committed (dramatic pause) to a divorce.

 

I don't think he actually said that.  That's what they showed, but that pause seemed like editing to me.  The way they were all babbling for what seemed like hours before saying their decision makes me think the editors had lots of material to pick and choose from for editing.

 

Neil could have said anything, like, "I'm committed to being honest, which is why I have to say it's better for me to divorce."

[lh25]

12. He pushed for moving into a new house, which they did.

14. When he went away on a trip, he told Sam he didn't miss her.

 

I agree Neil did some things that weren't great.  On these two though, I have to wonder.  I would have pushed for a new house as well, if the option was to live with my new spouse and their roommate in a place where I wasn't allowed to have a key or any space for my clothes.

 

On the not missing her, that did come across as cold, but it was after she refused to answer if she missed him and acted like it was an odd question.  I put it in the category of him giving back what he got to some extent. 

[Kareem]

Tres got hammered for trying to be nice which must mean he's full of it, Neil got hammered for trying to be agreeable while questioning her behavior and David got hammered for trying too hard with the corpse. Vanessa tried to build a world of shared bathrooms and vet visits, Sam tried successfully to act like most peoples' worst nightmare, and Ashley didn't bother trying anything, especially being civil. Still think the guys this season were an easier bunch to have to live with.

[Jusagirlintheworld]

I don't think he actually said that. That's what they showed, but that pause seemed like editing to me. The way they were all babbling for what seemed like hours before saying their decision makes me think the editors had lots of material to pick and choose from for editing.

Neil could have said anything, like, "I'm committed to being honest, which is why I have to say it's better for me to divorce."

That's fair. But he still chose divorce after multiple"loving" overtures, countless talking heads reiterating his commitment to the marriage, and wholeheartedly insisting that there were more good times than bad (in response to Sam's questioning about Decision Day).

It's a mystery to me. He said that his attractin to Sam waned over time. Ok, so he was attracted to her in the beginning when she was treating him like garbage, but stopped when she started treating him with respect? Huh?

I don't blame Neil for bailing out. I don't understand why he waited so long and gave such mixed signals.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Jusagirlintheworld

[tvwatcher104]

I don't think he actually said that.  That's what they showed, but that pause seemed like editing to me.  The way they were all babbling for what seemed like hours before saying their decision makes me think the editors had lots of material to pick and choose from for editing.

 

Neil could have said anything, like, "I'm committed to being honest, which is why I have to say it's better for me to divorce."

it was clearly, very clearly edited. like a bad copy/paste. you could easily see where he said the word but what came after didn't naturally follow. on decision day he probably said 'i was committed to the process' as he had many many many times before during the show, and they copied that word committed next to the word divorce. one of the 'doctors' said that the actual taping of the decision is 5+ hours per couple, so there is tons of footage to use, tons of words to pick from, etc. and sam/neil were holding hands at one point in previews, which was cut from the final decision. i am amazed at how gullible people are to believe they see it exactly as it's taped. it's editing, lol... all editing.

Edited March 4, 2016 by tvwatcher104

[Paddywagon]

I see those things as a way to manage anxiety - I say that as I sit here with my Himalayan salt lamp, the tea that I like to drink from a particular cup, needing to have a little cozy place to retreat to.

That sounds very peaceful! And it sounds like you are very self-aware and at ease with who you are.

I don't see Sam as being self-aware like that or at ease with herself. From what I saw she pushes her issues into others. She seems to have become an expert manipulator.

ETA: I think all of us have things we want to improve about ourselves. Everyone has issues. But how we deal with those issues determines what kind of character we have, especially when it comes to interacting with others. Abdicating blame never works.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Paddywagon

[izabella]

That's fair. But he still chose divorce after multiple"loving" overtures, countless talking heads reiterating his commitment to the marriage, and wholeheartedly insisting that there were more good times than bad (in response to Sam's questioning about Decision Day).

It's a mystery to me. He said that his attractin to Sam waned over time. Ok, so he was attracted to her in the beginning when she was treating him like garbage, but stopped when she started treating him with respect? Huh?

I don't blame Neil for bailing out. I don't understand why he waited so long and gave such mixed signals.

 

Money.  Breach of contract.  Producers.  That's why Neil didn't bail after the honeymoon, same reason David didn't bail, same reason Ashley didn't bail.

 

If it weren't that they were on this show, none of these people would have gotten past a first date, except maybe Vanessa and Tres.

Edited March 4, 2016 by izabella

[Evil Queen]

THIS THIS and THIS!!!!!!!!

As a fellow introvert, I couldn't have said it better myself (I am on my lunch break, sitting alone in my car, recharging).

And as an introvert who used to live with a narcissist of the worst sort (my feet still hurt 6 years after I left from all the eggshells) I felt I could totally relate to Neil. When someone puts you down so much, you feel triumph when you work up the courage and dare to zing back. I felt Neil's breathlessness when he told Sam he didn't miss her...and totally get his giving her gifts. When you live life being afraid to poke the sleeping bear, it gets old really fast.

 

I does get old so fast. I'm a child of a narcissist. I agree that when you do have that chance/moment to speak up and give it back that it does feel good. Of course after effects don't unless you get to the point you are able to break away then its different. I have actually held back so much of what I could have said over the many years to my mom. Its a tiring place to be. If you go back and watch from the beginning you see his happiness and excitement over doing this to him start to slowing disappear inside and deciding to just go with whatever she wanted. There is a few moments he tried otherwise but that beast in her would pop out. I also seriously doubt even a strong outgoing man could handle her. She doesn't want to be put in her place and she claims. She would never be able to handle not being the one in control. 

 

Thank you, Jusagirlintheworld. That was a great summary of why I, too, felt so confused about Neil.

 

He did move out of Sam's house, but then he was the one who wanted them to move to another house together.

 

I totally get the having to walk on shells thing, because I had to do that with both my parents, and now I have to do that around another close family member, too. So I know how that is. And I'm also an introvert in RL. So yes, I get those things. But Neil's behavior was just so confusing. He didn't only play nice with Sam face to face; he said all those enthusiastic things about how things were progressing and how committed he was and all that in his THs. Sam wasn't there then; it was just him and the crew. 

 

He never lived in Sam's house. He wasn't allowed to. He couldn't have a key or a space for clothes at all. So that to me says not living there but he was visiting. When he said they need a place she freaked out. There was nothing wrong with the one they got first off but yet even then they weren't living together and it was obvious. Same with the last place. I don't think Neil is perfect in anything and wish he had spoken up but understood exactly why he wasn't after he did try. How many times did he try in the beginning that we didn't see? That is if any because maybe he didn't. Maybe he just realized quickly how it was and it was better to just not set off Sam.

   Sadly I think the editing on this show is just horrendous. It is so all over the place and the THs NEVER match a damn thing that is going on. It literally is a joke having that stuff thrown in when done as it is. I have a feeling they make them film things in one sitting or a few and toss whatever in that makes things sound hopeful and not truly how tired and sick they are of certain things. Take for example how bad the Ashley one was with the bbq. They had her on tv smiling and laughing it up with David's friends and over it we hear her saying how she was basically sitting off in a corner not having fun, no one talking to her, left alone by them all and no David...or whatever it was she said like that. Right there was bad show on the crews part for how they put that together. 

 

I don't think he actually said that.  That's what they showed, but that pause seemed like editing to me.  The way they were all babbling for what seemed like hours before saying their decision makes me think the editors had lots of material to pick and choose from for editing.

 

Neil could have said anything, like, "I'm committed to being honest, which is why I have to say it's better for me to divorce."

 

It wasn't just his. When I watched Vanessa talking and the way they were going back and forth on showing her and Tres and what was said. It was so obvious how cut up and edited it was. It was not in a good way either. The edit before going to break before her saying what she decided was bad. They had her shot completely off from what we had just been seeing and her seated a little differently, looking to the ground instead of up and at Tres like she had just been with her body facing him more. The way that Neil said it...it was VERY obvious to me that it was another bad edit. I can see him saying something about how he was committed to the whole thing at the beginning but that over time blah blah blah...then that he wanted a divorce. Yet what he said in there wouldn't have caused the reaction the show wanted so we get a bad editing job there. 

[izabella]

it was clearly, very clearly edited. like a bad copy/paste. you could easily see where he said the word but what came after didn't naturally follow. on decision day he probably said 'i was committed to the process' as he had many many many times before during the show, and they copied that word committed next to the word divorce. one of the 'doctors' said that the actual taping of the decision is 5+ hours per couple, so there is tons of footage to use, tons of words to pick from, etc. and sam/neil were holding hands at one point in previews, which was cut from the final decision. i am amazed at how gullible people are to believe they see it exactly as it's taped. it's editing, lol... all editing.

 

I'm a veteran of the Real Housewives shows, so editor's tricks are nothing new to me as far as "reality" tv goes.  Even on this show, it was obvious they play the same tricks on the audience to craft a story - just notice how often the previews show one thing, but when you see it on the episode, it's not there or turns out to be different, or completely taken out of context and placed into another.  It's super obvious when you hear voiceovers, probably taped during a Talking Head, but that's not actually what is being said between the couple in the scene they are showing.  You don't actually see them speaking words, just hear them, while the camera is in a long shot or on the other person who isn't even speaking.

[Evil Queen]

That's fair. But he still chose divorce after multiple"loving" overtures, countless talking heads reiterating his commitment to the marriage, and wholeheartedly insisting that there were more good times than bad (in response to Sam's questioning about Decision Day).

It's a mystery to me. He said that his attractin to Sam waned over time. Ok, so he was attracted to her in the beginning when she was treating him like garbage, but stopped when she started treating him with respect? Huh?

I don't blame Neil for bailing out. I don't understand why he waited so long and gave such mixed signals.

 

She never gave him any respect that I saw. If he tried to talk to her about himself so she could get to know him she would have wandering eyes or slurping soup up like a pig. She put her dirty hands all over his face after saying he didn't like his face touched. Then when she spoke about anything it was about herself and never about him or them. She repeated herself in different forms during this when telling the "experts" how she a better person. It was over and over with her faces. When someone has to repeat themselves that much, even saying it differently, I question how true it is and just see it as being about herself as usual. I never once heard her truly apologize for how she treated him either. I don't consider certain things he did as any kind of "loving overtures" at all. It was more guilt driven things done/said/give. You have to look at how she acted before most those things. With the good times and bad, she asked about the last 2 weeks and not the whole 6 weeks. If she had he would have had to say more bad. Yet trying to make it all good during that last 1-2 weeks is not enough to show a change because someone like her will do that and the next second go off all over again to the bad behavior. She showed it still was there during the whole time but in more a toned down form in some of it. He said he thought she was beautiful/pretty on their wedding day (she was all dolled up that day) and I think once her behavior kicked in and it got worse over time any attraction he could have had was not going to happen. He had told a friend he wasn't attracted to her when asked. I didn't think he was. The way things are edited on this show there is no way they are going to make it look miserable and unhappy. So of course we see THs of them being positive and thinking things are so great. It happened here and it happened with David's. Which in turn comes back to the crew for this show needing to change how things are being done when it comes to the editing. Its confusing on all sides. 

 

Money.  Breach of contract.  Producers.  That's why Neil didn't bail after the honeymoon, same reason David didn't bail, same reason Ashley didn't bail.

 

If it weren't that they were on this show, none of these people would have gotten past a first date, except maybe Vanessa and Tres.

 

AGREE!!!! There is no way David would have gone out again with Ashley or her him after 1 date. If Neil and Sam's first date was her belittling him and eating as she had on the wedding day or eating soup later on, there is no way it would have gone past date 1. With signing contracts you are stuck with this person now and doing a show. 

[tvwatcher104]

I'm a veteran of the Real Housewives shows, so editor's tricks are nothing new to me as far as "reality" tv goes.  Even on this show, it was obvious they play the same tricks on the audience to craft a story - just notice how often the previews show one thing, but when you see it on the episode, it's not there or turns out to be different, or completely taken out of context and placed into another.  It's super obvious when you hear voiceovers, probably taped during a Talking Head, but that's not actually what is being said between the couple in the scene they are showing.  You don't actually see them speaking words, just hear them, while the camera is in a long shot or on the other person who isn't even speaking.

yes, exactly! and the facial expressions before/after words are said (especially in Vanessa's case on the decision show) barely even match. she is saying she wants to stay married, but her face is all contorted right before the words come out. then.. a major smile, lol. it's kinda funny in its own way. although the bachelor/bachelorette have some really good editors b/c you can't see it as easily on that show. i live in Hollywood, so to those in and around the industry it's commonplace and more funny than 'real.'

[Jack Sampson]

Haven't read every post in this thread, so it may already be mentioned. But who thinks Sam and David and Ashley and Neil would have been better matches? I do. Especially Sam and David.

Neil and David are good guys, why saddle either of them with those nightmares?

[Jade Foxx]

 

With the good times and bad, she asked about the last 2 weeks and not the whole 6 weeks. If she had he would have had to say more bad. Yet trying to make it all good during that last 1-2 weeks is not enough to show a change because someone like her will do that and the next second go off all over again to the bad behavior. 

 

Yes, like writing "ex-wifey" on a wedding photo and leaving it for Neil to see. She just had to get that last jab in, she couldn't help herself!

 

WITCH.

[izabella]

Yes, like writing "ex-wifey" on a wedding photo and leaving it for Neil to see. She just had to get that last jab in, she couldn't help herself!

 

WITCH.

 

Yes, this.  That was totally intended to be a jab, and she couldn't let Neil reject her without trying to stick it to him.  But that's also exactly the kind of thing that, when Neil saw it, confirmed for him that he made the right decision, I'm sure.

Edited March 4, 2016 by izabella

[Vinyasa]

Sadly I think the editing on this show is just horrendous. It is so all over the place and the THs NEVER match a damn thing that is going on. It literally is a joke having that stuff thrown in when done as it is.

 

The production people are either cheap, lazy or both.

 

At the Vanessa/Tres wedding, she is shown wearing the wrist corsage before he gives it to her.  The editing is horrible!

 

Don't they even watch the episodes before they are "final"? or is the first time they watch is when it is on TV?

[Jusagirlintheworld]

Money. Breach of contract. Producers. That's why Neil didn't bail after the honeymoon, same reason David didn't bail, same reason Ashley didn't bail.

If it weren't that they were on this show, none of these people would have gotten past a first date, except maybe Vanessa and Tres.

I agree that Neil couldn't physically bail out due to breach of contract risks. But he could've mentally bailed or even expressed hesitation or concern.

Instead, he UPPED HIS GAME and did MORE for Sam. He made more statements about his commitment, performed more acts of service for Sam (eg, offering to cook, doing activities she enjoyed like fishing and ghost tours), and was more thoughtful (eg, gifts).

Was Neil just "leaning in" to go through the motions, even though really didn't want the relationship? At a minimum, he was not forthcoming. Some might call it dishonest. Some may even speculate that he did have a motive . . . Revenge. As for me, I'm just confused.

Yes, this. That was totally intended to be a jab, and she couldn't let Neil reject her without trying to stick it to him. But that's also exactly the kind of thing that, when Neil saw it, confirmed for him that he made the right decision, I'm sure.

And yet, he invites her to do something with him as friends. He doesn't just make a vague statement about being friends, he wants to take affirmative steps to continue the relationship. Why, Neil? I don't understand you!

[Evil Queen]

The production people are either cheap, lazy or both.

 

At the Vanessa/Tres wedding, she is shown wearing the wrist corsage before he gives it to her.  The editing is horrible!

 

Don't they even watch the episodes before they are "final"? or is the first time they watch is when it is on TV?

 

I'm saying they are both. It really is pathetic when we watch and see the editing and how bad it is. You would think in this day and age it would be done better but guess not. 

 

 

I agree that Neil couldn't physically bail out due to breach of contract risks. But he could've mentally bailed or even expressed hesitation or concern.

Instead, he UPPED HIS GAME and did MORE for Sam. He made more statements about his commitment, performed more acts of service for Sam (eg, offering to cook, doing activities she enjoyed like fishing and ghost tours), and was more thoughtful (eg, gifts).

Was Neil just "leaning in" to go through the motions, even though really didn't want the relationship? At a minimum, he was not forthcoming. Some might call it dishonest. Some may even speculate that he did have a motive . . . Revenge. As for me, I'm just confused.

And yet, he invites her to do something with him as friends. He doesn't just make a vague statement about being friends, he wants to take affirmative steps to continue the relationship. Why, Neil? I don't understand you!

 

I don't think he upped his game. I think he did what he was because its what Sam wanted to do. If he had spoken up to her she would have had another tantrum. If he had told her how he was really feeling or having any doubts, she would have thrown a fit. The little trinkets he brought back were done because she had him feeling bad for something he shouldn't have had to. They were guilt gifts. Typical behaviors for those that are narcissists and in a relationship with one. Yet she was never going to answer the do you miss me question they way she claims. If he had say yes she would have said no and gone on about why she doesn't. His reasoning for not missing her was something that many people can relate too because not everyone will miss someone right away or even a day later. While some might miss a person the second they leave. Everyone is different in that manner. Yet Sam is good at putting on an act. Its all about her and nothing more. She made that clear early on. She also made it clear she didn't want to hear him tell her the truth so he shut down. I think the friend thing is just that. He doesn't feel anything for her in a relationship type of way other then being friends. He was friends with at least one ex of his. I'm sure its not uncommon to be friends with ones for certain types of people. Obviously for most it wouldn't be that way. Yet in this situation and with this kind of person, I would suggest otherwise and to just go. She is not that kind of person that could be friends with an ex (unless she had an agenda) and IMO not much of a friend by the looks of Sammie. I just hope they stayed split for good and nothing more because she is a life sucker. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Evil Queen

[tinypeanut]

I'm saying they are both. It really is pathetic when we watch and see the editing and how bad it is. You would think in this day and age it would be done better but guess not.

 

 

 

You bring up an excellent issue about the unprofessional editing.  If you remember the photo of David and Ashley with the "crew" they all seemed very young.

 Maybe it is their first job.  :)

Edited March 8, 2016 by Drogo
Quote formatting issues

[KateHearts]

Yes, like writing "ex-wifey" on a wedding photo and leaving it for Neil to see. She just had to get that last jab in, she couldn't help herself!

 

WITCH.

As well as pointing out that they had been honest... well, SHE had been honest, anyway.