S06.E08: Season 6, Episode 8

[DianeDobbler]

Feel free to pm me, Zoloftbob. Sorry I missed this question last week!

[Roseanna]

In S2 JF understood so well that Sybil fell in love with Tom partly because he was her way to Downton, and in this episode he showed well that Bertie needed a good woman to believe in him and help him in his duties (just like George VI - wasn't he called Bertie, too!). So, why did he misunderstand Mary's situation so completely?

Mary is now in her mid-thirties and has a young son. What kind of woman rushes to marriage without first learning what kind of step-father her son is going to have and how they will get along?

Mary loaned to Henry Tom's words that equality in marriage means only equality in strength and passion. But Tom and Sybil lived in Ireland where Sybil was known as Mrs Branson. But Henry has to live in Mary's father's house where he can decide on nothing. Matthew at least was co-owner because his heritage and he finally convinced Robert, but earlier when he and Mary disagreed on Swire's heritage, Mary won. However "strong" Henry may be, he has no asses against Mary who has them all.

Think back, Blake would have been the best match for Mary as they both were interested in agriculture. JF should only have written the story in another way (no title but instead more radicalism, no contest with Gillingham but maybe Rose as a girl Blake seemed to prefer to Mary).

[Tetraneutron]

It won't matter what kind of stepfather is. People barely expected biological parents to do what we'd consider parenting stuff today. No one is expecting Henry help George with his math homework. Not being jealous and angry that the stepson outranks you (and the show covered that) is pretty much all that's required. Paying as much attention to you stepped as your own kids would be a bonus. Besides, George will be a boarding school in a few years. 

 

I get it, with Henry. Mary has no need for money or a title to secure Downton or her own place. Se might as well be with someone whose company she enjoys. Besides, who says spouses have so share the same hobbies?

[Roseanna]

Tetraneutron, don't you think that spouses discuss on anything? The only subject Henry has so far talked, besides that he loves Mary, is cars. Isn't it pretty boring?

I don't even seen that Henry and Mary enjoyed each others's company. They only flirted but like strangers do, not like lovers.

[Andorra]

 

I don't even seen that Henry and Mary enjoyed each others's company. They only flirted but like strangers do, not like lovers.

 

That's my problem with them, too. They don't share the same interests and we only saw them flirting and fighting. And the flirting was so superficial and "cold", I wasn't able to detect any passion in it or any shared sense of humor.

 

With Tom we had long walks on the estate, deep conversations about life and love, confiding secrets, teasing and a really passionate fight. There I could see a connection and a basis for a marriage with Henry and Mary I couldn't see anything that compared. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Andorra

[Roseanna]

Andorra, before S6 I wasn't at all liked Mary marrying Tom. Partly I wanted that Tom would stay in America where he could succeed on his on, partly I thought that after Sybil Tom couldn't love such a cold fish as Mary, not to talk about her snobbish airs.

But after S6 I must confess that after Matthew Tom was the only man who found something soft in Mary (Anna said that Henry found, but this wasn't shown to us). Tom was also the only man who could make her see reason (again, Henry couldn't - what kind of marriage it is that demands the third parties to convince the woman to accept).

So there was much on which JF would have built (although I see them as a sister and brother). At least it would have been better than JF's solution. Why didn't he at last wait for CS?

[Andorra]

I agree. I wasn't a Tom/Mary shipper at all before season 6 started. I found the thought ridiculous, really. But in S6 there were so many scenes between them that showed a connection and a deeper understanding. It was definitely the best relationship Mary had with a man after Matthew. 

[Eolivet]

I realized with all I've talked about this episode, I never wrote down my thoughts. So, here they are, in case any U.S. folks agree:

 

I found everything about Mary and Henry's story completely understandable. To me, it completely harkened back to the idea of choosing death or life (the question put to Mary by Violet in 4x01 -- are you going to mourn Matthew forever or are you going to move on?) I also found the parallels between Mary and Thomas striking, and I don't think it was a coincidence that his suicide attempt was an in episode where Mary was so unhappy, she sabotaged Edith's happiness. Being so unhappy that he makes everyone else miserable has been Thomas' raison d'etre since day 1. That was also Mary in season 1 -- when she felt the world was against her and railed against the idea of losing Downton. Both took their misery and turned it into spite. I also didn't find the relationship between George and Thomas a coincidence. He must recognize a kindred spirit there -- after all, he's raised by someone very similar.

 

I didn't see Mary unhappy with Henry either. I saw Mary as scared out of her mind that she really had feelings for him and would lose him. Of course it was easier to ruin it and pretend it was his fault. She did the exact same thing with Matthew in 1x05. And the fact that she said she wasn't suitable for Henry...suddenly, we're taking Mary at her word? Mary of the "You must pay no attention to the things I say?"

 

I also didn't understand the idea that the fact that Mary kept protesting that Henry wasn't right was supposed to be a sign that she didn't like him. I remember when she was with Carlisle and kept insisting that everything was fine. If Mary really doesn't like someone (Gillingham, for instance), she'll be bored, not angry and upset.

 

But to me, the absolute number 1 reason that I thought Mary's protesting meant she was scared and not that she truly didn't like Henry was the scene with Violet, when she talked about "suitable" marriages and wanted Granny to find her a Duke or someone "sensible." To me, that showed it's easier for Mary to be unhappy than it is for her to be hurt (just like in season 1). The fact that title-questing Mary could think of marrying someone with no title and not even a very respectable job proved to me how much she's grown (in that respect) since we first met her.

 

I'll admit that Henry didn't have the best, most thorough development, and maybe it all moved a little fast, and maybe people were traumatized from the last suitors. But to me, he was a perfect encapsulation of how far Mary had come. And the fact that she visited Matthew's grave on her wedding day means she is happy and as happy as she will ever be, so I can't help but be happy for her. She's gone from "find me a Duke" to being happy with a race car driver. To me -- at least in this respect -- it shows a more mature Mary, and I appreciated that.

 

I even think the fact that Henry and Mary shared many scenes with Tom makes perfect sense. Henry -- like Tom -- will be a fish out of water at Downton, and I believe Fellowes was establishing the camaraderie that we will see between the two men at the Christmas Special. I also think had Stevens not peaced out, we would've seen scenes of Matthew reacting the same way to life at Downton instead of fitting in perfectly (remember he wanted them to have their own house in early season 3).

 

But I really enjoyed this episode. The only thing that makes me sad is that I now cannot stand Carson, and I can't for the life of me figure out what Fellowes is doing with him. When I'm rooting for him to keel over so Mrs. Hughes can be free to help Mrs. Patmore run her B&B, that's not a good thing.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Eolivet

[Tetraneutron]

The one thing I disagree with what you just said is Henry being out of place like Downton the way Tom was. Tom was a servant. Henry is a well-born man with no chance of being a landowner. They're very different. Henry spent time in estates like Downton his whole life. He probably went to Eton, where most of his peers were like the Crawleys. He lives in that world. Henry is more like what Rosamond's kids would be like, if she had them. No real short at being Lord Anything, but certainly not Tom. 

[Eolivet]

Ah, OK -- thanks for the clarification! I still think they brought him on with the intention that he would get along with Tom and they could be friends, but it sounds like no showing of the ropes would be necessary.

[Roseanna]

Eolvet, an interesting interpretation although, as you may guess, I disagree in almost anything.

I guess it's about personal preferences. I simply can't like a woman who says "no" when she means "yes", as it's (at least partly) the reason why men like Pamuk force themselves on other women or stalk them.

Also in story lines, I want to see the scenes where a suitor shown with his behavior what kind of man he is. From Henry we know only that he loves cars, is evidently a good kisser and does't accept no from a woman. I don't think that this is enough for marriage, at least if one is a widow with a son and an estate.

[Eolivet]

Roseanna, I agree it's a dangerous precedent to set for all women, and I don't like "no means yes" stories either. However, in this case, I unfortunately believe that is exactly what Mary means. I don't think there's evidence to indicate that "no means no" for Mary. I also don't believe that strong-willed Mary would allow herself to marry a man she hated (which has been suggested in other parts). She said yes to Pamuk, but her face clearly regretted it. She looks blissfully happy after she marries Henry. It's unfortunate that Fellowes used that awful storytelling device, but I also remember her basically saying "no" to Matthew several times in the scene where he ultimately proposed, so it's not like Fellowes hasn't done this before.

 

I think Henry has been shown to have a devil-may-care attitude. I personally cannot see him getting a marriage license as threatening or stalkerish to Mary -- rather, I would say that he shows he's sure of himself and stubborn as she is. Mary ultimately told Gillingham to scram, and then was happy when he went. When Mary told Henry to leave, she was upset when he did.

 

I also have believed that Mary getting remarried was not so much about the man as it was about timing. I think she met Henry when she decided she was ready to be happy again. She chose life, even when it scared her. And because she is relatively self-sufficient (with a son and an estate), I think she can marry who she chooses. And she chose Henry.

[ZoloftBlob]

Eh, I found the tone of the marriage liscence scene to be creepy, not confident. He brought the lisence and arranged a preacher and said he'd make her miserable until she said yes. I mean, what was next on the list of charming moments, showing Mary the ear collection of the girls who said no too many times?

 

More seriously, if we were supposed to like Henry, it would have been nice to have had a reason to want to root for him. Instead, he came off bland, and more worrisome, he was barely on the show.

[Eolivet]

To me, it was all in Mary's reaction. Gillingham showed up for sex week, then hung around until Mary had to tell him to take the hint and get lost. Henry gets a marriage license, says he won't take no for an answer, and Mary's totally into it. If Mary threw herself at every man that came before, I might side-eye her reaction. But we've seen other men jump through hoops to please Mary and barely get a raise of an eyebrow. Henry's self-assuredness clearly didn't bother Mary, so it didn't bother me.

[ZoloftBlob]

Well, in fairness, your interpretation of "Mary was totally into it" isn't one I agree with in that her response wasn't "Oh Henry, you're right, lets get married right here and now". Didn't they argue, and then Mary went on to destroy Edith and get lectured by almost every member of her family that she needed to marry Henry, and then she had to commune with Matthew's ghost in order for it to finally happen?

 

She at least seemed to enjoy Gillingham's company until she discovered his performance issues.... :D

Edited December 11, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Roseanna]

Eolivet, I can't understand from what you get the idea that Mary said no to Matthew in the proposal scene. She was only hesitant to accept, considering the past.

As for Gillingham, even if Mary had decided not to accept his proposal, with new hair she sent on purpose a message that she didn't mean it. I think was that was selfish and even cruel. It was only Blake who made Mary give a hint that it was definitely over.

I think that it's rather weird to interpret that if a woman is angry at a man that means she is in love with him. Yes, many classical love stories have a pattern of hate-turned-love. But Henry came uninvited to Downton *after* Mary had refused his proposal.

I see Henry as a man who thinks only about himself and his needs. He knows that Mary's died in a car accident - no words of empathy for her loss, only give cars a chance because they are my love. He sees his friend die in an accident - I can't lose a moment, let's get married, instead of understanding how traumatic that moment was to Mary and that it was the worst moment to propose. And getting a marriage license after she had refused his proposal - so acts a man who doesn't accept a woman's right to say no but tries to use her weak moment.

[Roseanna]

Eolivet wrote that "Henry's self-assuredness clearly didn't bother Mary". Really?

When Henry came Downton uninvited, Mary couldn't be more uncivil towards him. Then Henry said that he didn't accept her no and would make refusing him as painful as possible (was this love or obsession?). And on the top he accused that Mary had refused his proposal because he had no title nor fortune and Mary got angry as he had come to her home to call her a gold-digger.

Yes, in her own room she leaned on the door - was it suppose to mean that she loved a man who made (as we later learned) false accusations and thereby proved that he didn't know her at all? (One can also ask why Henry wanted to marry a woman whose character and values he found in contempt.) We can compare this fight with the later fight with Tom who told her the truth which proved that he knew her.

What really *did* bother Mary was that Henry had left early in the morning. That kind of indifference would have been much better tactics. Matthew was a master in it: first, when Mary after their close moments at the dinner table tried to charm Strallan in order to annoy Edith, Matthew simply walked away to show that he wasn't a man to be played with, second he withdrew his proposal when Mary hadn't said yes during Cora's pregnancy, and third after Lavinia's death. Clearly, Mary was a woman who wasn't won by a man who pursued him, but who said no to her.

And in fact, Henry didn't won Mary himself, but Edith, Tom and finally Violet did all the work for him and he came when Mary whistled. They agreed to marry without any discussion why Mary had fought against (she even said that she didn't know the reason although she had told it to Violet) or that his accusations had been false. A fine basis on marriage indeed.

[skyways]

So I got over myself and saw some of Season 6. It finally dawned on me that Mary's marriage was almost as if it was in defiance  (and fear of Edith 'leaving her behind' so to speak). It was remarkable I wonder if it was accidental or Fellowes having a method to his madness. It reminded me of the time when she heard Matthew was engaged and coming to visit the abbey with his newfound. Mary quickly got Carlyle and announced that she too was serious and about to be happy! The smile Dockery as Mary had on her face when Talbot announced that he would be a car salesman had me laughing at how unconvincing and soo unMary-like it was.

 

Her ending reminded me of a someone in real life who in her prime had all these choice bachelors, many serious and eligible good-looking coming for her hand, while she dismissed them with a cheerful wave of hand. And then suddenly finds her self alone and likely to be, when all her suitors have moved on and then she decides to marry the next man who shows interest even if he was less than ideal. On top of it all, Edith the sister who was always destined to be in her shadow (as Mary saw it) was about to hit the jackpot. It was remarkable how the drama played out like this. I'm convinced that if Edith's intended wasn't revealed as titled Mary would have continued dangling Talbot. After all there was no reason at this point NOT TO. This song and dance was playing out like all the others (smile, flirt, make seductive eyes, suggestive conversation......same old with Mary). Then suddenly Edith's drama interferes and Mary fearing herself as an unintended casualty (left high and dry with no prospects in the horizon) quickly made her move and agreed to what everyone was telling her to do. You have to admit it makes sense when you view it through the lens of the never ending feud between she and Edith.

 

Mary got married because she was afraid and loath of Edith's lot ending up as the better of the two. Fascinating! That's why there was no romance between she and Talbott (the role could have been played by an effigy) and Edith had the dynamic and warm romance. Hmmm................It was always about their rivalry in love and life as far as Mary was concerned dating back to Matthew.

Edited January 17, 2016 by skyways

[Wordsworth]

Loved it.  Except I'm not convinced Talbot is the man for Mary, but TPTB say so, so it must be true!

 

The pacing was fast, but they fit in a bunch.

 

• The Mary & Edith fight I'd been waiting for...and the ultimate resolution that Edith loves her sister, but doesn't always like her.  Seeing Tom, Cora, Rosamund, Violet and, then, even Robert lecture her about her unkindness made me happy.
• Suicide attempt was coming.  Very little about this show is unpredictable.  But we never see the important scenes or hear the important conversations.  We only see how others react to them.
• Where the heck is Larry Grey?  Is Amelia going to represent the annoying side of the Merton clan now?
• I loved the giggles from everyone about poor Mrs. Patmore's issue.  Especially when the scene cuts from Carson wanting to keep this from everyone to Mary & Anna laughing over it in front of the mirror.
• I'll give the show one kudo for unpredictability, though.  I thought Cassandra Jones was a man.  I just didn't know it was Spratt!  Mr. Wordsworth and I burst out laughing at the "bananas" scene in the office.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Wordsworth

[TheGreenKnight]

I agree--Mary and Edith's fight, and Edith's final speech to her, were both fantastic and satisfying. The odd thing is Mary dropping the bomb almost wasn't as bad to me as when she made that comment to Robert about Thomas after the suicide attempt. I thought they did a good job showing that Mary just spews venom when she's miserable. That said, I couldn't help being on Mary's side in regards to Tom. He really got on my nerves where it concerned Henry; he just kept pushing and needling her, so I could buy Mary being as angry and emotional as she was. 

 

The opening to this episode was really beautiful, with Edith and Cora walking with umbrellas among all those flowers. I think my favorite opening to an episode of this series. Gorgeous. It reminded me of a couple of environments from Emma (Romola Garai).

 

I was glad there was conflict among Rosamund, Cora, and Robert about telling Bertie. I felt sorry that Edith didn't get to prove her worth because of Mary getting there first, since I figured she would wait until the very last possible moment to say it. I liked the dialogue she was given when talking to Bertie before he left, about how she had been facing the greatest temptation laid before her of a "happily ever after" with him.

Thankfully, she makes up for this to me in the final episode for telling Bertie's mother.

[Roseanna]

I thought they did a good job showing that Mary just spews venom when she's miserable.

 

I doubted this explanation before, but after watching anew I must admit that there is at least some truth in this: the hair-cut scene where she said to Edith that she "spoils everything" happened after she decided to dump Gillingham. That may have caused her feel lonely and miserable but - just as now with Talbot - these feelings were due her own choice.

[AndySmith]

I'm glad Mary and Henry got together. They make a cute couple and seem nice together.

[Wordsworth]

The odd thing is Mary dropping the bomb almost wasn't as bad to me as when she made that comment to Robert about Thomas after the suicide attempt. I thought they did a good job showing that Mary just spews venom when she's miserable. 

 

 

Yes, Robert is used to Mary being rude to her sister, but not to him.  To imply that his attempt to downsize the unnecessary household staff was responsible for Thomas' cutting his wrists in the bath was cruel.  Thomas' problems were not just about his job hunt.

 

And I thought Edith's outfit during that morning walk was lovely.  That was a beautiful scene, wasn't it?

Edited February 14, 2016 by Wordsworth

[skyways]

Not true AndySmith. Together they are like two effigies. Mary was hard all season. Talbot brings/adds nothing to her story.

Edited February 14, 2016 by skyways

[AndySmith]

Well, that's your opinion. We can all have our own and can agree to disagree, right?

[Roseanna]

Yes, Robert is used to Mary being rude to her sister, but not to him.  To imply that his attempt to downsize the unnecessary household staff was responsible for Thomas' cutting his wrists in the bath was cruel.  

 

Yes, and most of all it was untrue. Besides, Mary could have intervened for Thomas' behalf before by suggesting f.ex. that she could buy one dress less, so Thomas could be kept in service, but she didn't.   

 

Remembering Mary's behavior patterns, she either used Thomas to stop the family reproach her about how she had treated Edith or, even more likely, lashed out to Robert because she had been reproached by Tom and Edith and she had to revenge her own misery to someone else., however innocent.

[Roseanna]

So I got over myself and saw some of Season 6. It finally dawned on me that Mary's marriage was almost as if it was in defiance  (and fear of Edith 'leaving her behind' so to speak). It was remarkable I wonder if it was accidental or Fellowes having a method to his madness. It reminded me of the time when she heard Matthew was engaged and coming to visit the abbey with his newfound. Mary quickly got Carlyle and announced that she too was serious and about to be happy! The smile Dockery as Mary had on her face when Talbot announced that he would be a car salesman had me laughing at how unconvincing and soo unMary-like it was.

 

Her ending reminded me of a someone in real life who in her prime had all these choice bachelors, many serious and eligible good-looking coming for her hand, while she dismissed them with a cheerful wave of hand. And then suddenly finds her self alone and likely to be, when all her suitors have moved on and then she decides to marry the next man who shows interest even if he was less than ideal. On top of it all, Edith the sister who was always destined to be in her shadow (as Mary saw it) was about to hit the jackpot. It was remarkable how the drama played out like this. I'm convinced that if Edith's intended wasn't revealed as titled Mary would have continued dangling Talbot. After all there was no reason at this point NOT TO. This song and dance was playing out like all the others (smile, flirt, make seductive eyes, suggestive conversation......same old with Mary). Then suddenly Edith's drama interferes and Mary fearing herself as an unintended casualty (left high and dry with no prospects in the horizon) quickly made her move and agreed to what everyone was telling her to do. You have to admit it makes sense when you view it through the lens of the never ending feud between she and Edith.

 

Mary got married because she was afraid and loath of Edith's lot ending up as the better of the two. Fascinating! That's why there was no romance between she and Talbott (the role could have been played by an effigy) and Edith had the dynamic and warm romance. Hmmm................It was always about their rivalry in love and life as far as Mary was concerned dating back to Matthew.

 

An interesting interpretetation.

I am not sure if it was JF's original intention but the result was that, because there was no spark between Mary and Henry, Mary's storyline in S6 wasn't at all her "romance" but her relationship with Edith and her reaction when the balance was turned in her sister's favor first in their family and then in their status due their respective possible husbands.

 

In addition, Mary had to eat her words almost in every respect:

- in S1 she found modernizing agriculture as a boring subject when Strallan spoke about it - but she ended as an agent herself!

- in S1 she said that she wouldn't marry someone because the others said so - but that's just what she did in S6!

- in S6 she said to Tom that she wouldn't marry down - but that's just what she did!

- and how many time she wondered how any man could be interested in Edith - and look what happened! 

 

I noticed that I had let "not" out, so I added it. 

Edited February 19, 2016 by Roseanna

[skyways]

Yes think about it.  What exactly tipped things in Henry's favour? Her talk with Grand mama? Because she had a somewhat similar talk with her during the Gillingham fiasco and she insisted then like she insisted now that her mind is made up, she won't be bullied blablabla........ and then Enter Edith's good fortune...................cos it was AFTER she wrecked things for Edith did she then call Henry back.

 

 

but also when the DC came to see her, she was all, "Granny, can't you find me a duke? That would put Edith in her place!" Dude! Edith DOES NOT CARE about outranking you

 

 

Aha!

Edited February 19, 2016 by skyways

[Andorra]

I found this episode endlessly depressing. It really was the worst Downton episode I've ever watched and made the goodbye easier. It was such a horrible case of "no means yes" and "the turning of the shrew", it was simply disgusting. Everyone knows I love Tom to pieces, but I yelled at the screen a few times when he kept pushing Mary towards Henry. And Henry surely mutated into a creep in that episode. 

Sad ending. 

[craziness]

Master George is so cute, when he says "Mr. Bawwow".

[Rhetorica]

Well, that was an eventful episode. I look forward to reading your comments.

[roomtorome]

I loved Mary being called a bully (and a coward) to her face because that is exactly what she is and always has been.   I don't give a hoot what happens to that character - never have.  Too few shades of gray even as she is decent to her maid (who is her employee) - And, good for Edith's dressing down of her - it was well written and very well acted.  Mary lied through her teeth to both Tom and her sister saying she didn't know that Bertie didn't know.    

 

I loved Edith's reason for coming to see Mary on her wedding day - she has wound up being the much more self-aware of the two.  She, at least, has matured over the seasons - while Mary is still Mary and Edith is likely correct that she will be nice as long as she is happy herself.  I don't care that Fellowes tried to give her more depth by having the dowager explain Mary is really bla bla bla - I needed to see that more over time, not be told all in one fell swoop when wrapping up the series - had we seen more empathy along the way from Mary - maybe.

 

I like that Bertie didn't leave because she had a daughter but because he felt he couldn't trust her because she kept such a huge secret from him.  That is what would get me too - and then would need time to contemplate the why of it and maybe then come around.  

 

There's so much more chemistry between Bertie and Edith (to me) than between Henry and Mary - Their kisses seems so stilted and forced.  And married before anyone could take a second breath - too weird.  It's all so rushed as though Fellowes didn't know the show was coming to an end or something even as he very lovingly crafted the love story between Edith and Bertie.  Almost like two different shows.

 

And - yeah - the Thomas thing was telegraphed so powerfully, you could see it coming from the moon - 

[Primetimer]

Edith and Mary deal with the complications of their love lives. Mostly not well.

Read the story

[moonb]

What was Mary's line to Robert, that he called "below the belt"? It was right after they'd found out about Thomas' suicide attempt. 

 

"The Courtship of Mary Crawley" was sure an exercise in misery for Mary. That said, I was a little bit touched by Mary and Edith's scene right before Mary's very sudden wedding. Also, good job to Michelle Dockery for playing Mary's feelings of self-loathing, being trapped, lashing out, and so on.  I only wish this episode hadn't felt quite so rushed.

 

Liked the comic relief of Mrs Patmore's House of Adultery - if only it hadn't felt shoehorned in among everything else happening!

Edited February 22, 2016 by moonb

[WatchrTina]

Well that was a roller-coaster. For those who have been complaining about Tom not having much of a purpose this season beyond being Mary's wing-man, I hope you were happy to see the role he had tonight -- to be the truth-teller who calls Mary on the carpet for ruining Edith's chances with Bertie.

 

I have to say I was surprise that Edith didn't tell Bertie.  Her mother told her that she must (good for Cora!) and so did her aunt.  That she failed to be honest when everyone was telling her she must displays a weakness of character that I am sorry to see written into the show.  I'm just hoping that Julian Fellows didn't want two happy endings in one episode and he's saving Edith's for the Christmas special (that's pure speculation by me.)

 

I was genuinely surprised that Mary ratted out Edith.  I had expected more character growth from her.

 

As for the quickie wedding -- I find it hard to believe that Mary's fears about Henry making his living driving fast cars would evaporate that quickly but, whatever.

 

Spratt. Well.  I didn't see THAT coming.

 

And the Dowager Countess is back and in fine form.  Yay!.

 

Okay so I'm looking forward to Larry having to grovel to Isobel in the Christmas special.  It would be funny if the series ends not with a wedding of a daughter of the house but with Isobel going off to be a great lady as the new Lady Merton.  I could live with that.

 

 

What was Mary's line to Robert, that he called "below the belt"? It was right after they'd found out about Thomas' suicide attempt.

She said something along the lines of "I hope you're happy with the results of your cost-cutting efforts."  And Robert's reply was "That was below the belt, even for you" (emphasis mine.)  I think that comment coming from Robert speaks volumes.

Edited February 22, 2016 by WatchrTina

[jah1986]

Golly gumdrops! I enjoyed it and I say that as an Edith fan.  It was really sad that she shot herself in the foot and that's what cost her and the fight with Mary was horrible but I think there was something of an understanding between them at the wedding and I'm glad of that. They didn't have to be overly affectionate but they could have been written a lot better and made this truce long ago, they work so much better when they're not mean to each other.

 

Was I the only one who literally cheered when the Dowager got out of that car? Violet really makes everything better and she really was the perfect person to finally get through to Mary.

 

Loved seeing Isabel stand up for herself and watching Mosley win his students over. Bates was right, he's a nice person who deserved a break.

 

I honestly didn't think Thomas would try suicide because it was so telegraphed. I'm glad he didn't succeed and loved the scene with Master George coming to visit him.

 

And hurrah for Mrs. Pattmore and her B&B getting another shot.  I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting now, but looking forward to the finale in two weeks.

[whatsatool]

I don't think the b words were period correct. I did love the reference to Gretna Green. If Henry is OK with the Dowager, he's OK with me. I think they will have a happy marriage and raise good pigs. Tom will be fine, now that he has discharged his brotherly duties.

And the T dog is looking like the crowned prince.

[MisterGlass]

It still feels like Mary and Talbot barely know each other, and that made this feel terribly rushed.  What wasn't rushed was Edith telling Mary the unvarnished truth.  That was overdue.  If this means Edith gets the happy ending with Bertie in the Christmas special, that would be okay with me.

 

Poor Tom deserves more of a life.

 

If Spratt leaves perhaps Thomas will get the dower house butler position.  Denker might quit in protest, which would be okay.  I'm glad Thomas acknowledged that much of his misery is his own doing.  It was a sweet moment with him and George.

 

 

Golly gumdrops!

 

This is now my favorite expression.  Especially coming from Lord G.

[Gladrags]

I'm sure I said this earlier in the conversation, but ... Damn! Mary is such a raging bitch! And I was glad to hear Edith finally tell her so in no uncertain terms. You gotta wonder if Mary would have been so horrid if Bertie hadn't inherited such a grand title.  And it struck me again how the news of Thomas' suicide attempt halted the dressing down Mary was getting from her family. She's ever the Teflon lady.

 

Another scene I enjoyed was Isobel and the future Mrs. Larry Grey -- such a civilized scene, with tea in the garden, when the conversation was nothing of the sort.

[PRgal]

I didn't realize the word "bitch" was used to refer to people like Mary back then!!

[CleoCaesar]

Mary is such a C-U-Next-Tuesday. Loved that Edith finally gave her a piece of her mind. It was only six years in the making.

 

Sad about Berie and Edith - he's just adorable, and his position is very understandable. I'm still hopeful, though.

 

Where is this supposedly “great love” between Mary and Henry? They barely know each other! This is such a blatant example of telling, not showing.

[irisheyes]

If all of my children hadn't been asleep, I would have stood up and cheered loudly when both Tom and Edith told Mary off. Tom was absolutely brilliant. I just wish we had seen her parents do it as well.

[ShadowFacts]

Mary is such a piece of work.  The only moment where I didn't find her a narcissistic witch was when she took George to see Barrow.  We should have seen her visit Matthew's grave a long time ago.  I did get a little eye allergy seeing Isobel in the distance, though.

 

Speaking of Barrow, he attempts suicide, everyone is concerned, Robert and Carson agree with each other they've been asses, and . . . Thomas is fine?  I guess it would be too much to ask to have Carson apologize for saying he could never be trusted no matter what, and for having been wrong about what he was doing with Andrew. 

 

Mrs. Patmore must not even be 5 feet tall, she really looked miniature when it was time for photographs. 

 

I liked Daisy listening in to Molesley and reporting back to the servants that he had the students spellbound.  That was a pretty quick turnaround from the day before but I bought it, the actor playing Molesley was selling it.

[Rhetorica]

I didn't realize the word "bitch" was used to refer to people like Mary back then!!

The term has been around for millennia and became very popular in the 20s.

[Dejana]

I didn't think the b-word was a recent invention. Perhaps Brits were more likely to use a different slur in the 1920s? IDK.

 

What was Robert's line, as he marveled about the impending marriage: something like "Poor old Edith, who couldn't even make her dolls do what she wanted..." Bwah! But it's kind of terrible that a father thought of his own child that way. I mean, maybe he could have done something about her being such a picked-upon sad sack as a girl?

Edited February 22, 2016 by Dejana

[Amethyst]

It was like a Jerry Springer moment for me when Edith and Tom went off on Mary.  But she deserved it.  Bertie had every right to know the truth, but even Tom knew Mary's reasoning was bullshit and she did it out of spite.  I cheered so hard when Edith called Mary a bitch, and she did it twice!

Even though it was obvious, Thomas' suicide attempt was so sad, but they spent, what, five minutes on it?  And after that everything was OK?  I hate them glossing over important stuff like that.  Still, points to Baxter for realizing what Thomas was planning and stopping him in time.  Very cute scene between him and little George, but again, wish that stuff had been longer.  At least Carson realized what a total shitass he's been.

 

I also love Edith and Bertie together, and they feel a lot more real than Mary and Talbot.

 

Thankfully Daisy was barely there this week.  Even after she was praising Molesley on his successful teaching gig, I wanted her to shut up.

[HunterHunted]

Edith's takedown of Mary gave me life because Mary is a sour nasty miserable bitch. The word did sound a little out of place, but a quick scan through Wikipedia tells me that bitch was frequently used by Hemingway starting in 1915 and that it spread through publishing circles in the 20s. I will say great acting by everyone even if some of the plots drove me nuts. Michelle was great at portraying Mary's curdling at the news about Bertie.

Even though Mary ended up married with the supposed happy ending, I think Edith is the winner. She's got a successful modern career. She's got friends at work. And she's got perspective on her life.

[statsgirl]

This is why I stopped watching in season 2 -- Fellowes obsession with Mary and the way he gives her good things no matter how awful a person she is.  Mary cold-blooded wanted to destroy Edith's happiness and yet she's the one who ends up happy and married.

 

Even Violet said that it was a good thing Edith was gone so that she could talk to just Mary.  Who cares about Edith when Mary is suffering even though she's the one hurting herself?

 

I have no doubt that now that she is happy, Mary will do something in the last episode that is nice for Edith, contacting Bertie and telling him to give Edith another chance is the most likely.  But it doesn't count because she's nice only when she's happy and otherwise tries to make other people more miserable than she is.  My child had more emotional maturity when she was 3 than Mary does in her thirties.

 

I was to see Mary and Carson go off into the sunset together. They deserve each other.

Edited February 22, 2016 by statsgirl

[TheGreenKnight]

We should have seen her visit Matthew's grave a long time ago.  I did get a little eye allergy seeing Isobel in the distance, though.

Yeah, that moment definitely got the tears flowing for me. I'm an easy get, but I cried several times near the end.

 

I don't mind Mary with Henry as much as others. I do enjoy Bertie/Edith more, but I don't find the pairing unsatisfying. I find him likable and straightforward actually, which brings Mary down to earth somewhat. I bought into the romance, but I was one of the few, I guess.

[Sulador]

I KNEW it about Bertie! I would love to see him come back to Edith in the closer, but I fear that the new marquess is gone for good. And poor Thomas! And Spratt, OMG! This episode was packed with all the action we haven't seen for the previous 7.