S01.E05: Fail Safe

[tarotx]

Valentina Vostok has made firestorm her life's work. I can believe she did experiments on herself or around herself that could affect her in a similar way as the particle accelerator explosion did to Stein&co. Firestorm can do a lot more than fly and shoot flames. It can soak up a nuclear weapon which would make defending against an army of them pretty impossible. Of course that means having a bunch of duels willing to merge and be one to achieve greatness. Plus in the comics Firestorm can do a lot more. Budget will be an issue. Especially since the ratings while still CW decent have fallen a lot. 

 

Savage is a weak link. He's just the personal villain for the Hawks and Rip for me at this point. For me the team issues is the big bad of the season. They have to be willing to do what is necessary but also be true to themselves. That's why I'm watching. I'm hoping we can have a bunch of episodes with Savage not in it or only in it sparingly. Also Hawkgirl needs to improve as well. At this point I'm hoping she has limited screen time coming up as well. Which is sad. 

[HighwayFlower]

Are the ratings from last night in yet? I thought they held steady last week, which was impressive with a lot of the other network shows coming back.

[FurryFury]

Much better than last week. I guess I'm starting to learn to turn off any critical thinking and just enjoy the spectacle. But the stuff I've liked the most about the ep was that Sara finally felt like herself and that she had a lot of interaction with Rip and Snart, who play off her the best of the cast (imho). Although I'm not sure about Cold being the angel to Rip's devil. It felt a bit OOC for him. 

 

I also really enjoyed Valentina and hope to see more of her later. She totally survived! Maybe she's frozen or something so they can meet her in the future and have her look the same.

 

I've already talked about how laughable this version of Russia is (not that I'd expect anything else from these guys, I still remember Arrow), but I actually liked Stein's little speech about the current Russia. He's completely right, it is run by crooks. 

 

The cliffhanger looked intriguing. I'm looking forward to the next episode.

[tarotx]

Are the ratings from last night in yet? I thought they held steady last week, which was impressive with a lot of the other network shows coming back.

Overnights are in and they are low.

 

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-thursday-ratings-2-18-2016.html

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Legends Of Tomorrow Puts White Canary On The Hot Seat
Will she go back to her assassin ways?

[rue721]

I really enjoyed this one!

 

Ray and Mick were a fantastic duo. What's funniest about that pairing to me is that, apparently, Mick has a real soft spot for brainy guys who will go out on a limb for him -- and I guess they also have a soft spot for him, seeing as both Ray and Cold risked their lives to protect him in prison.

 

The storyline about Jax and his life-derailing injury was actually pretty fascinating and endeared me a lot to the character. I was already warming up to him after he couldn't resist taking the ship out for a spin, even as a getaway driver, a few episodes back. Hopefully, they'll feature him more, because every time they do, I end up liking him more.

 

Hawkgirl is still pretty dull, but I wonder if that's because they concentrate so much on her as a demigoddess rather than as a person. She was a barista, right? Maybe if she did things like carry around fancy coffees and have little quirks like that, she'd be a little more fun. Her characterization is just so dry right now. And they keep bringing up Carter. News flash -- nobody cares about him. Even she barely knew him in this life.

 

Valentina is a fun villain, and I hope she comes back. To be honest, I'd kind of like her to join the Legends team.

 

I'm still not sure about Stein as a character, but VG is really effective as an actor. The look on Stein's face when he saw Ray and Mick being tortured got me right in the heart.

 

Does Wentworth not do shirtless?  It seemed odd he was in a robe in the steam room.

 

Wentworth Miller was constantly shirtless in Prison Break -- his character's full-body tattoos were a major plot point!

 

I think that Lenny was wearing his robe in the steam room for the same reason that he's always wearing a bulky winter coat when he's out and about in (usually pretty balmy) Central City. It's part of his "Captain Cold" schtick.

Edited February 19, 2016 by rue721

[benteen]

Overnights are in and they are low.

 

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-thursday-ratings-2-18-2016.html

 

Disappointing to hear.  I hope the ratings steady...I want to see this show get another season.

[Trini]

Does Wentworth not do shirtless?  It seemed odd he was in a robe in the steam room.

Not anymore. ::sigh:: But I don't think he's in as good shape as the other dudes, anyway.

 

Wentworth Miller was constantly shirtless in Prison Break -- his character's full-body tattoos were a major plot point!

Well, constantly shirtless in Season 1. It dropped off a lot after that.

[henripootel]

but I actually liked Stein's little speech about the current Russia. He's completely right, it is run by crooks.

It was then too, just different crooks, mostly.

Ray and Mick were a fantastic duo. What's funniest about that pairing to me is that, apparently, Mick has a real soft spot for brainy guys who will go out on a limb for him

 

I know we're supposed to think so but I agree with Mick - Ray was stupid and I really can't see how Ray 'took a beating for him'.  They beat Mick pretty badly too, so, what, Ray thought they'd get tired kicking his ass?  That they had only so much ass-kicking to do so if he took more, Mick would get less?

 

Also, Ray even intending to 'take one for the team' implies that Mick might owe him one, could even be stretched to 'he thought Mick couldn't take it'.  Sorry, I agree with Mick - Ray is trying to impose a debt on him.  Mick neither needed nor wanted the 'help', and I can't see why Mick relented at the end and seemed to have grudging respect for Ray for doing this.  I mean saving Ray because he's part of the team, sure.  But Ray acted stupidly.  Ray acts stupidly a lot - I haven't watched Arrow so I have to ask, has he always been this useless?

Edited February 20, 2016 by henripootel

[Potanical Pardon]

I know Valentina Vostok is a character from the comics involved with Checkmate, which they could just make A.R.G.U.S. for TV, but did anyone else get the feeling that they're going to make her the Firehawk character?

Connor Hawke in the comics is half black and Oliver's son.

Actually, Connor is 1/4 African heritage, 1/4 Korean.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[strikera0]

I am still enjoying the character interactions, but the writing of this show is maddeningly stupid. Once again, the characters are handed a chance to kill Savage for good on a silver platter and what happens? Kendra simply walks out of the room. I know the writers have to drag out Savage's defeat until the season finale, but it would be nice if they would put a little bit more effort into their writing nevertheless.

 

Cold and Heatwave are progressing nicely, but Ray continues to be written like an imbecile. The writers are dumbing him down to the point of incredibleness. I really hope that changes soon.

[tarotx]

Kendra just can't Kill Savage either. She has to have something from the night of the meteorite. It is maddening that she doesn't have something at all times. 

[festivus]

I can't stand Vandal Savage.  And not because he's a scary villian. He just sucks.

 

I thought the prison break references were amusing and I've never watched that show. 

 

So that was Connor Hawke? I already like him better than Oliver.

[CletusMusashi]

So if Vandal Savage just got nuked, he's probably dead for the moment, right? So have Firestorm go back down and finish him off.

These people have so much technology at their disposal. It's ridiculous they haven't just blasted him into the sun by now.

Besides that, I'm starting to like the show. Jax is pretty dull, but he's innocuous enough that I can easily ignore him.

But if every single week starts with a speech about killing Vandal Savage, only for them to randomly pop in, give him a wedgie, and then run away without finishing the battle, it's going to either get really old or really funny.

Not quite sure which, though.

Edited February 20, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[ottoDbusdriver]

So if Vandal Savage just got nuked, he's probably dead for the moment, right? So have Firestorm go back down and finish him off.

These people have so much technology at their disposal. It's ridiculous they haven't just blasted him into the sun by now.

Besides that, I'm starting to like the show. Jax is pretty dull, but he's innocuous enough that I can easily ignore him.

But if every single week starts with a speech about killing Vandal Savage, only for them to randomly pop in, give him a wedgie, and then run away without finishing the battle, it's going to either get really old or really funny.

Not quite sure which, though.

 

That was the truly ridiculous part -- Rip had his gun trained on an (apparently) unarmed Vandal Savage and doesn't pull the trigger.  Sure Savage may be immortal, that doesn't make him Wolverine -- he should have pumped Vandal's body full of bullets/lasers/whatever.  Hey, it might slow him down a little -- it's at least worth a shot.

[kismet]

The show is just fun... It's got a little of everything. VG speaking poetic. I didn't even mind seeing fakeCisco. Valentina was way more interesting than VS. Here's hoping they can channel more villainy into VS. He's just dull.

 

Jax & Kendra are still the weakest link, but somehow the show acknowledging them being the JV squad felt appropriate.

 

I loved that the team got a win. But I must admit the Kronos shooting them down is also getting very repetitive. But hey, we had progress ~ nobody mentioned that Kendra was a barista! :)

[strikera0]

Kendra just can't Kill Savage either. She has to have something from the night of the meteorite. It is maddening that she doesn't have something at all times. 

 

Yeah, Kendra needs the dagger to kill him and if Rip Hunter hadn't "forgotten" to take it with him after he slit Savage's throat 2 weeks ago, she would have had it. Besides, Vandal Savage carries it with him at all times, so it's ridiculous that Kendra and Rip didn't at least try to wrestle it from him when they held him at gunpoint this episode.

[Lady Calypso]

At the beginning of the episode, with fake!Cisco, just before that scene ended, I actually rewinded because I knew something was off with Cisco. I thought it might have been a flashback or something, but I saw Cisco's hair and his outfit and knew it couldn't be. 

 

Wow, so Ray took one for the team. You know, it was actually nice to see Ray do something selfless for once. For once, I actually bought that he wasn't getting injured just to look like the big shot. He genuinely didn't want it to be Mick. It worked well, and I honestly loved seeing more of Mick without Snart. This is the first time we've seen it, so it was great. That actually shot up my opinion of both men. 

 

Watching Sara's struggle was really good. Her and Snart always work well together. Besides Garber, they're two of the stronger actors. I mean, they're hinting toward a romantic angle and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing them hook up, but I'm also ok if they stay good friends. Sara definitely needs a friend, and Snart needs someone other than Mick. 

 

Jax and Stein making up and finally on the road to accepting one another? I think that they still have a little bit to work out, but having Stein being taken over by the Soviet scientist got him to appreciate Jax. Also, having Jax risk injuring himself again to save Stein really helped me like the character. I was lukewarm about him at best up until last episode. Now, this episode helped me really like him. Kendra and Jax interactions as well! Yes, they really are fleshing out these characters by letting them interact with more than just their 'pre-planned' partners. 

 

Honestly, this show really is good. I think it's because it's one of the rare ensemble shows that work well. They utilize their several characters well by letting them act off one another. Not one person is 100% stuck with one character. I mean, it's been Kendra/Carter (until he died, which was a nice surprise), Mick/Snart, Jax/Stein and Sara/Rip as the more established 'pairings' (Sara/Rip is a little different, but I guess they still needed Sara and Rip to have a solid 'partner' and by default...), but this show actually takes the work 'ensemble' and uses it. It may not be the most perfect show out there, but it is solid by a mile, especially compared to Arrow (where they center it around Oliver but don't let other characters interact much together, or have a good storyline) and The Flash (where they can't even write their female characters well at all and it's all about Barry, his fathers, and Cisco). Right now, I even wonder how they are the same showrunners/writers for the sister shows.

 

Ok, their weak point is Vandal Savage, but only because they made him super duper powered up, and they made the mistake in not going back to his first life, kidnapping him, and then taking him back to the dinosaur age and letting him get destroyed by meteors. They really tried to explain this off, but then we saw Rip way back in time to Vandal's early days and that's where I go 'oh'. Also, it seems like they might be going back and forth in time, but how Vandal hasn't recognized them from various times ('hey, I recognize you from 1900/1636/1870/etc) is mostly due to the writers going 'well, we haven't exactly planned out when they're traveling in time yet, so we can't foreshadow'. 

[KirkB]

Yeah, I don't get having a gun pointed at Savage and not pulling the trigger. Sure, you know it's not going to keep him down for long, but if they intend on drawing this out until the finale at least have a little fun with it. Treat him like Kenny from South Park. If nothing else, if I were Rip I would shoot him in the face every chance I got for what he did to my family, even just to briefly make myself feel better.

[DigitalCount]

I know we're supposed to think so but I agree with Mick - Ray was stupid and I really can't see how Ray 'took a beating for him'. They beat Mick pretty badly too, so, what, Ray thought they'd get tired kicking his ass? That they had only so much ass-kicking to do so if he took more, Mick would get less?

Also, Ray even intending to 'take one for the team' implies that Mick might owe him one, could even be stretched to 'he thought Mick couldn't take it'. Sorry, I agree with Mick - Ray is trying to impose a debt on him. Mick neither needed nor wanted the 'help', and I can't see why Mick relented at the end and seemed to have grudging respect for Ray for doing this. I mean saving Ray because he's part of the team, sure. But Ray acted stupidly. Ray acts stupidly a lot - I haven't watched Arrow so I have to ask, has he always been this useless?

Ray's stupidity has definitely been played up for Legends. He was a bit of a goober on Arrow, but not a complete lunkheaded moron like he is here. At the same time, I can see him thinking that the rest of the team couldn't get them out, or they would have already done so. He didn't have a mental link with his teammates (and why don't they have something implanted that allows them to communicate yet?) like Stein did. All he knew was that if they had any hope of escaping, it would probably come down to Mick. I think he was acknowledging his expendability and lack of resources in the moment.

Maybe he even did a bit of mental calculus and figured Lenny would go rogue on Mick's behalf, since he had before and was in fact about to. And if the Soviets killed both of them they'd have no leverage against Stein. So a dead Mick and worse for wear Ray/Stein makes less sense for Captain Cold to come to the rescue, but a dead Ray and a moderatedly tortured Mick/Stein means the others might escape, and taking the beating could have been a stall tactic. In this he was, again, proven right.

[KirkB]

That makes a lot of sense actually. Ray is smart enough to know Snart is the only one likely to break or sneak in (since as you say the rest of the team hadn't busted in with a rescue already) and that he would only do so for Mick, so he may have been risking his own life to keep Mick healthy enough to give Snart a reason to keep coming.

 

Along the same lines, if Ray was thinking far enough ahead, this might also explain why he was acting like such a particularly oblivious goober. He was anticipating violence and knew Mick would welcome and even encourage it, so he preemptively got them focused on him to keep Mick from being hurt, again with the idea of Snart not showing up otherwise.

Edited February 21, 2016 by KirkB

[henripootel]

...so he [Ray] may have been risking his own life to keep Mick healthy enough to give Snart a reason to keep coming.

I agree that this is what the writers had in mind, I just don't know if it makes a blind bit of sense.  What makes Ray think kicking his ass will keep them from beating Mick's?  They punished Ray and Mick to make Stein compliant, who's to say that they wouldn't punish Mick for Ray mouthing off?  Or just beat the shit out of them both more than they'd planned to?  Mick had the right of it - STFU and take your beating, wait for your chance to return the favor. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by henripootel

[Lady Calypso]

That makes a lot of sense actually. Ray is smart enough to know Snart is the only one likely to break or sneak in (since as you say the rest of the team hadn't busted in with a rescue already) and that he would only do so for Mick, so he may have been risking his own life to keep Mick healthy enough to give Snart a reason to keep coming.

 

Along the same lines, if Ray was thinking far enough ahead, this might also explain why he was acting like such a particularly oblivious goober. He was anticipating violence and knew Mick would welcome and even encourage it, so he preemptively got them focused on him to keep Mick from being hurt, again with the idea of Snart not showing up otherwise.

 

The only problem with this is how would Snart know beforehand that Mick was beaten more than Ray? He would only find out after he's in. I don't think Ray was thinking this, but Ray taking the beating ensured all of their escapes. It showed Mick that he could trust Ray, and it got Mick convincing Snart to carry Ray, who was dead weight. I don't know if Snart could have carried Mick on his own but if he did, he would have gladly left Ray to fend for himself. Although he did give him his suit, so Ray would have probably been able to get out. But Mick might not have if Snart couldn't carry him. So in a way, it did end up working out, even if Ray didn't think much ahead of his plan. 

[tarotx]

Ray was just trying to be the boy scout. He was doing what he thought a nice guy hero would do. But while he's a genius he has little adaptability. Which is the opposite of Oliver Queen...

[DigitalCount]

Wasn't Gideon monitoring their life signs from the ship? At some point Rip asked how Stein was doing and Gideon said he was still alive. That's one way Lenny would have known.

[Sakura12]

I don't think Ray was thinking that far ahead. I think he was just being a dork with apparently no skills at reading the room. You guys are giving him way too much credit. He has never been in situations like Mick, Leonard, Sara and Oliver have been in.  He's a scientist, an inventor that lived inside a lab until his fiance was killed. He doesn't have any covert skills. 

 

I think the only thing Ray did was take a beating for Mick because he wanted to be the hero. As Snart said Ray would take a beating for a complete stranger. He was the one that wanted Snart to save Vostak, a woman they didn't know. Ray just wants to be a hero. I do think the will learn a lot from the Rogues and that will make him a better a hero. 

[KirkB]

He's doesn't have covert skills, no, and since he's probably never been in prison he wouldn't know what it's like, but as has been pointed out here there have been a lot of TV shows and movies (sometimes with less than realistic results but still) interpreting prison life that surely Ray would have encountered at least a few of. No one would act the way he was without a reason, and I have a hard time believing some could be that oblivious to danger and manage to survive long enough to get rich as a CEO and inventor. And I wasn't so much giving Ray credit as going along with the discussion at hand. Yes, Ray does have an obvious hero complex so I'm sure that was a part of it. But Mick and Snart had the most familiarity with prisons, and with getting out of them. Plus Mick was probably the toughest one there, and a friend (of sorts) so it was in Ray's best interest to keep him as healthy as possible.

Edited February 21, 2016 by KirkB

[Sakura12]

I think if Ray had any other plans they would've let us know that. This show isn't exactly subtle with their intentions. Ray just seems to be an idiot when it comes to social skills. He's probably seen prison movies/shows or knows about them but he thinks if he's nice to people they will be nice in return. 

[johntfs]

Yeah, I don't get having a gun pointed at Savage and not pulling the trigger. Sure, you know it's not going to keep him down for long, but if they intend on drawing this out until the finale at least have a little fun with it. Treat him like Kenny from South Park. If nothing else, if I were Rip I would shoot him in the face every chance I got for what he did to my family, even just to briefly make myself feel better.

 

The thing is that if it foes to violence, all bets are off.  Savage has 4,000 years of combat experience.  He's viciously fast and frighteningly skilled.  If Rip decides to pull the trigger, Savage will likely see it and attack.  Maybe Rip will kill or disable him with that first shot, but maybe he doesn't and Savage tears him and Kendra up with his knife collection and game over.

 

As far as Savage goes, he doesn't want to start the music either because he can't be certain Kendra doesn't have some other artifact or even that he might get hurt enough for them to take the knife and kill him.  So, the two sides kind of tacitly negotiate a partial victory.  Savage "dies" but will come back later.

[BkWurm1]

Quick impressions and then I go reading the thread. 

 

This is the episode that I discovered that I just plain like this show.  First two I pushed myself, liking some elements and working to like others. Third episode I got a real good feeling about where this show was going and last week I was impressed with new character combinations but this week, I just watched as a fan of the whole thing.  I'm there, I'm invested.  Yeah, sure, Kendra still needs to find herself a bit and yes, I couldn't explain why once again they let Savage live but I don't care.  I was there for every character and feeling the connections new and old and the ones forming and the acting was strong (enough) and I worried about them and was there for the twists and when it was over I was pumped for next week. 

 

I liked this show on principle and expectation before but now. Yep, full blown fan. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, I don't get having a gun pointed at Savage and not pulling the trigger. Sure, you know it's not going to keep him down for long, but if they intend on drawing this out until the finale at least have a little fun with it. Treat him like Kenny from South Park. If nothing else, if I were Rip I would shoot him in the face every chance I got for what he did to my family, even just to briefly make myself feel better.

 

To be fair, Rip did blow him up.  I too was wondering why he was just leaving him standing there even if they did need a special knife to finish the job, but then he triggered the explosives and VS went up in flames.  So that did make me feel better.

 

 

Ray was just trying to be the boy scout. He was doing what he thought a nice guy hero would do. But while he's a genius he has little adaptability. Which is the opposite of Oliver Queen...

I think that Ray both really wants to be a hero in order to give his life purpose (survivor's guilt maybe?) but I really think doing the right thing is his first instinct.  I think with Mick, Ray recognized that Mick had pissed off the guard and without thought, Ray tried to help.  Like Cold said, he'd do it for a stranger and I believe that about Ray.  He can't help himself. 

Going to bring a general discussion of this subject over to Ray's thread.

[Lokiberry]

This was the best episode yet. All the character interactions were perfect. Vostok was a fun, compelling villain. I even found Savage scary when he was threatening Stein with Stalin's hammer thingy.

 

My favorite characters are the morally compromised ones: Rip, who's turned into a manipulative bastard to kill Savage and save his family:  pyro Mick; Snart, who's not only dedicated to crime, but to his team mates as well; and, of course, formerly dead assassin Sara. These are the ones who drive the story, while the goody two-shoes (Ray, I'm looking at you) are there for support, or to provide a catalyst for the gray characters. This is a really interesting choice for the show to take. I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with it.

 

I said on the Arrow forum that this show is like a smorgasbord of shipping for me, so when Rip and Sara were having their talk at the end, and he moved closer to her, and she turned to smile at Cold and credit him for helping her not kill Stein, I literally screamed "Love Triangle!".  Now, I hate love triangles because they're used primarily as ship stalls for the chosen couple; but this would be different than anything the flarrowverse has attempted before: three well-developed gray characters with complicated feelings for each other. They could actually get a decent story out of that.

[KirkB]

Is that knife really the only thing in creation which can kill Savage, and even then only if it's in Kendra's hand? Because if it is, why would Savage keep it around for 4000 years? Why not destroy the thing? Then no matter what the Legends do, even with Kendra at the helm, they could never stop him.

[tarotx]

From the Flarrow crossover I thought anything from the night of the Meteorite would work so I'm still going with that. But Savage did make it seem that it's just the Knife by Kendra's hand. I can believe that he likes to temp fate so he keeps the knife around. 

[feverfew]

I unabashedly loved this show; It makes me happy in way I haven't felt since...well, Ugly Betty. My favourite shows are in general dark and twisted, but this is pure nostalgia; everything I wanted Smallville to be. I'm not thinking *deep thoughts* on this one, but it makes me sing Pharrell's Happy on a loop *grins*

 

Rip keep your shirt on!

 

No, no, keep taking your shirt off, Rip! I got all fluttery after his and Sara's talk in the aftermath. Intense is hot. Also:

My favorite characters are the morally compromised ones: Rip, who's turned into a manipulative bastard to kill Savage and save his family:  pyro Mick; Snart, who's not only dedicated to crime, but to his team mates as well; and, of course, formerly dead assassin Sara. These are the ones who drive the story, while the goody two-shoes (Ray, I'm looking at you) are there for support, or to provide a catalyst for the gray characters. This is a really interesting choice for the show to take. I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with it.

 

I said on the Arrow forum that this show is like a smorgasbord of shipping for me, so when Rip and Sara were having their talk at the end, and he moved closer to her, and she turned to smile at Cold and credit him for helping her not kill Stein, I literally screamed "Love Triangle!".  Now, I hate love triangles because they're used primarily as ship stalls for the chosen couple; but this would be different than anything the flarrowverse has attempted before: three well-developed gray characters with complicated feelings for each other. They could actually get a decent story out of that.

 

Normally I don't go for love triangles (I've gone on at lenght in other show threads on how much I hate them), but this show seems to have a good handle on its shadier characters, and I'm willing so see where it goes with those three. At the moment I'm more on the Rip/Sara train, but I love her interactions with Cold. As others have said, I love the fact that TPTB aren't afraid of mixing up the pairings - it's really the show's strenght.

[FurryFury]

I have to say, it's such a breath of fresh air that there are are no forced pairings from the get-go (well, except for the Hawks, but they don't have a lot of screen time and the guy's dead anyway). I mean, just remember the first few episodes of The Flash and Arrow, so much anvil-dropping about Oliver/Laurel and Barry/Iris, I felt compelled to hate them simply because of how heavy-handed the writing was (they also don't have much chemistry, especially Lauriver). So it's nice that Sara, who's clearly the female lead here, isn't making googly eyes at anybody (it also wouldn't make any sense for her to do so, considering her established character and the recent events in her life). Her relationships with Rip and Cold are actually developed as friends/colleagues, without forcing any of the romance where it doesn't belong yet. I like both guys and I'm intrigued by their dynamics with Sara, so bring it on. Also, she deserves this attention, anyways. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by FurryFury

[Jalyn]

I find it hard to believe that the destruction of that gulag would have had no effect on the timeline.  That really should have had an effect, they blew up a freaking top secret gulag.  There's no way that the Soviet Union wouldn't have looked into that.

 

The whole world looked into it - we just called it the Chernobyl meltdown and chalked it up to an accident.

[blackwing]

Why would Sara think that Green Arrow was Oliver?  It's 2046.  Oliver would be about 60 years old.  Way too old to be running around in leather.  I don't know if that's Connor Hawke or not, but it's an alternate future, so I suppose anything that occurs here doesn't have to mean it is in the main future.  I can already hear all the Oliver/Felicity worshippers kvetching.

 

I enjoyed this episode, but I think I might have tuned out a little because I didn't understand, how did Valentina know so much about "Grey" (where on earth did that come from, it's like all of a sudden the writers decided this was going to be Jefferson's name for him.  Every time he said it I kept thinking 'Christian Grey').  How did she know that she had to "merge" with him?  Vandal Savage doesn't know anything about Firestorm and I think it odd that she would assume that he and this other person are linked and therefore he is half of Firestorm.

 

The actress playing Kendra continues to be awful.  And I did raise my eyebrows at Rip sidelining Jefferson and Kendra, the only two black characters, while the rest of the team got to play.

[Sakura12]

It made sense to me, because Jax and Kendra are the two that Savage wants the most. Kendra he wants to kill so he could become stronger and with Jax he'd have both halves of Firestorm. If Sara and Snart also got captured they would mean nothing to Savage.

[Delphi]

Why would Sara think that Green Arrow was Oliver? It's 2046. Oliver would be about 60 years old. Way too old to be running around in leather. I don't know if that's Connor Hawke or not, but it's an alternate future, so I suppose anything that occurs here doesn't have to mean it is in the main future. I can already hear all the Oliver/Felicity worshippers kvetching.

There are plenty of stories involving heroes coming out of retirement during particularly bad situations, so I actually thought it was Oliver for a split second.

I personally didn't see Oliver quitting his vigilante gig until recently. I figured he would be doing it until he got killed in action so if he was very lucky he could probably push to mid fifties and just get slower and more breakable.

Also Sara and Ray have been flying around in a timey wimey machine, I'd probably have a hard time of keeping track of how old someone is supposed to be.

[KirkB]

If I recall correctly, in one of the dialogues either Rip or Gideon, I forget which, said that Star City was the only holdout. That if it fell Savage would have the whole world. If his army of Firestorms is really so badass I find it a little hard to believe that the only place left free is apparently being protected by a couple of guys with a bow and arrow.

[kismet]

In Star City's defense they have had many years of practicing for Evil Guys with plans for world domination. Every May has basically been a drill for the last 34 years or so.

Edited February 24, 2016 by kismet

[pivot]

I am loving this show so much. Outside of the hawk storyline, everything clicks. And I am sure Caity is thanking her lucky stars she got this role instead of being stuck as the 5th wheel on Arrow like Katie Cassidy.

So disappointed that it is struggling in the ratings. I hope the CW gives it one more year.

[Starfish35]

I forgot that this episode ended in the 2046 cliffhanger.  😳 Oh well, for next week.

I think Fail-Safe was one of the better episodes of this season. It’s also the episode where I first started low-key shipping Sara and Snart.  I appreciated that it was Leonard that was the “good angel” on her shoulder so to speak, telling her not to take the shot.

I also appreciated Mick, in spite of all his toughness and only being out for himself, not being able to leave Ray behind.  And lol...he called Ray “Pretty” in that one scene. 😂

Also a good episode for Jax and Stein, solidifying their partnership and faith in each other.  

And Rip is learning to have faith in his team.

[Sakura12]

The show was allowed to be much darker back in season 1. Ray getting beat up was pretty brutal as was Sara being asked to kill Stein. 

I like seeing how Snart and Mick wanted to help the team on this mission. Mick wouldn't leave without Ray and Snart wasn't going to let Sara murder Stein for Rip. Sara and Snart were really the only couple I shipped on this show.

Sara once again got to be a badass, I loved her throwing her ninja stars. I miss Sara using different kinds of weapons each episode. 

And next episode is the old JJ who is now playing another character on Arrow. Which still makes no sense to me whatsoever. 

[MarkHB]

On 10/28/2019 at 10:04 PM, Sakura12 said:

And next episode is the old JJ who is now playing another character on Arrow. Which still makes no sense to me whatsoever. 

Flashpoint 🙂