S04.E12: Unchained

[tarotx]

We are in need of the dead horse again? Oliver will either have visited the kid (which is what I think the reference meant) or he didn't. There is nothing in the episode that tells us either way. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm so happy for Star(ling) City's Door and Window guy. I'm pretty sure he just bought a 2nd vacation home and a new yacht.

I used to think the same thing when I watched Buffy. Then poor Xander got stuck being the free window repair guy.

[tv echo]

Except for the Felicity/Calculator scenes and the Roy/Thea scenes, I really hated didn't enjoy this episode...

 

Loved:

-- The Felicity vs. Calculator computer battles were my favorite scenes in this entire episode.  And that last scene where Felicity sees her father and goes, "Dad?" was so great.  EBR managed to inject such surprise and hopeful disbelief in that one word.

-- Felicity's triumphant presentation (after Curtis' pep talk) of Palmer Tech's new battery was great.  I liked that Oliver showed up to support her and unknowingly sat next to her father.  The previous scene where they showed Felicity all alone after her bungled rehearsal presentation and after the board member told her to get someone else to do the talk because she was in a wheelchair really showed her vulnerability and that she's not totally okay with being paralyzed.

-- I was more pleased to see Roy than I expected. The Roy and Thea scenes were so bittersweet and well-acted by both CH and WH.  However, it made no sense that Roy would tell Thea he loved her and then take off without knowing if she was going to be okay.  And Thea's speech to Roy was too reminiscent of Oliver's speech to Felicity last season. Well, at least, I'm now sure that Thea is not going to be the one in the grave.  She'll probably be cured next week.

 

Hated:

-- At the top of the episode, Oliver refers to his making back and forth trips to Central City, which means (at least to me) that he's been visiting his secret son and repeatedly lying to Felicity about why he's been making those trips.  After that, the episode went downhill (except for the scenes mentioned above). Oliver, you asshole!

-- The entire Nyssa/LOA storyline just reminded of the stupidity of last season's Ra's al Ghul storyline: Thea's life is in danger, and Oliver can only save her by making a deal that requires him to challenge Ra's al Ghul.(*)  Only this time, Nyssa is playing Malcolm's role, and Malcolm is playing Ra's role.  Why doesn't Nyssa just challenge Malcolm herself for the Ra's position?!  Oh yeah, right, for the same reason that Malcolm didn't challenge Ra's directly last year.  Because for some reason, Oliver is able to defeat Malcolm, Nyssa and the former Ra's on his own - even though he's unable to take down Double Down and Anarky by himself.  I expected Malcolm to be manipulative, but I expected Nyssa to be more straightforward. You know, I used to like Nyssa, but now - after blackmailing Oliver to kill Malcolm for her - I just want her off the show. 

(* Isn't this just so Arrow?  Oliver uses the LP to save Thea, she gets blood lust, and he has to pay the price again and again - this time by fighting Malcolm. Meanwhile, Laurel uses the LP to bring Sara back from the dead, Sara gets blood lust, but Oliver gets Constantine to cure her magically.  Laurel pays no price and has no consequences.)

-- While the Nyssa vs. Tatsu/Katana fight was probably cool from a fan geek perspective, it kinda served no purpose because they ended up talking it out. And what could Nyssa have said to Tatsu to make her give up the magical (and convenient) Lotus?(**)  Nyssa: "I need the Lotus to blackmail Oliver into killing Malcolm for me, so that I can become the new Ra's."  Tatsu: "Oh, okay then, that's fine. That's worth forsaking my sacred duty to protect the Lotus."  We didn't see their conversation because even the writers couldn't come up with believable dialogue.

(** We have magical herbs, magical water and now a magical lotus.  It's getting even more ridiculous that there isn't a magical something to cure Felicity's paralysis.)

-- Ugh! Oliver thanks Malcolm and shakes his hand.  This is the guy who's responsible for killing your parents, Sara, and hundreds of other people.  What are you thinking?

-- Double Ugh! The flashbacks are just as silly as ever.  Now we have a Shado Hallucination telling Oliver that he has to give in to his darkness and referring to his love for Taiana (huh?!).  If Shado represents Oliver's subconscious, then his love for Taiana is even more unbelievable than the magical lotus - and probably came out of the same left field from whence sprung Slade's love for Shado in season 2.  SA and ER have even less chemistry than SA and KC (which I didn't think was possible).  And while ER seems like a lovely person in real life, her acting in these flashbacks is atrocious. When Oliver still had the rock that Shado gave him, I realized that maybe she wasn't just a hallucination but something magically conjured up by the mystical powers of the island (Lian Yu is the Lost island?).

-- The fight scenes are starting to get repetitive and boring.  Sometimes they seem to be included in an episode just to give Bamford something to do each week.

 

Next Week's Preview:

-- The preview for 413 just looks like another ridiculous showdown between Oliver and Malcolm, this time orchestrated by Nyssa.  We know that none of them is going to die, so what's the point? I mean, Laurel will probably convince Nyssa to give the Lotus to Thea to save her life during their sure-to-be heartwarming scene together. (Oh joy, something else to look forward to next week!)

-- I'm more interested in seeing more of Felicity and her father, and how that plays out (like if and when she finds out he's the Calculator, and if and when he finds out she's been his computer adversary).

 

Question:

-- I don't recall hearing the dialogue tease that was spoiled by the Arrow Writers Room.  Was it even said in 412, and if so, by whom?

 

P.S. There was a point during last night's episode - it was the scene after Arsenal successfully rappelled from the exploding building to the ground, and he then stood there in his masked leather and faced GA, BC and Spartan, all in their masked leather costumes - and I thought, 'this is absolutely ridiculous looking, why am I watching this show?' Of course, then later I watched Felicity's confrontation with her father and thought, 'that's why'.

Edited February 4, 2016 by tv echo

[tarotx]

..

Question:

-- I don't recall hearing the dialogue tease that was spoiled by the Arrow Writers Room.  Was it even said in 412, and if so, by whom?

Roy to Thea.

Edited February 4, 2016 by tarotx

[Morrigan2575]

Alright I just had a really stupid thought.  According to Nyssa the Lotus was developed by enemies of the League to counter the effects of the Pit.  Wouldn't that be the opposite of what Oliver wants?  They're making it sound like the Lotus can save Thea from her Bloodlust and/or eventual death if she refuses to kill.  

 

Yet, why would you're enemies develop something that is actually a cure or would help the LoA in some form?  I would think if I was an enemy of the LoA and I wanted to counter the effects of the Pit, then I would develop something that counter acts the healing aspects (forces the wounds to come back) or removes the stolen life from someone revived by the Pit.

 

I have no doubt that the Lotus is going to be used to Cure Thea but, it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

[Velocity23]

Would Darkh be considered enemy of the League? I would think he would want something like that.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Velocity23

[nksarmi]

Ok now that my warm, happy Roy/Thea feels have worn off - I'm liking this episode less.

 

First, as others have mentioned, Oliver is not feeling anything for flashback girl who apparently has a name, but I don't care.  Shado being a hallucination was a waste, but the girl is apparently having a very active afterlife with appearing to Oliver on the island and then later Slade in season two.  Wonder if Slade is seeing her again now that he is living in the ARGUS prison on the island.

 

Anyway, I am not buying that Nyssa went on a three-month hunger strike or that she was living on rice and peppers and meditation since Thea and Laurel left her in what October?  So since it actually takes some time to jet pack from wherever the hell NP is to Japan and back to the US - I am going to assume that she broke out weeks ago and they are just now showing it to us. I mean for all we know, Malcolm has been playing around reconstituting Savage and hasn't been in NP for a couple of months, right?

 

But more importantly, I HATE that Nyssa is asking Oliver to kill Malcolm.  Not because I don't want Malcolm to die - but I want Nyssa to do it!  This show will never convince me that Oliver or Malcolm are better than her - shut up show!

 

And on the last note of my rant - I don't understand how "reversing the effects of the LP" can be a good thing for  Thea.  I mean, I get that she has to kill or she is going to die - but wouldn't a total reversal of the pit mean she goes back to her pre-pit status, which as I recall was pretty damn bad.  So, how is this a good thing exactly?  I would be fine if this thing gets used on Darkh and he becomes  a shriveled up old man and/or everyone of his previous injuries that were cured by LP waters resurface.  That would be a fun way to watch a villain die!

 

Oh am I really bad person if I think Thea probably should just go kill a pedophile every few months?  I mean as long as she's sure they are guilty.  Oliver was killing people in season one whose sins were less than that as far as I'm concerned.

Alright I just had a really stupid thought.  According to Nyssa the Lotus was developed by enemies of the League to counter the effects of the Pit.  Wouldn't that be the opposite of what Oliver wants?  They're making it sound like the Lotus can save Thea from her Bloodlust and/or eventual death if she refuses to kill.  

 

Yet, why would you're enemies develop something that is actually a cure or would help the LoA in some form?  I would think if I was an enemy of the LoA and I wanted to counter the effects of the Pit, then I would develop something that counter acts the healing aspects (forces the wounds to come back) or removes the stolen life from someone revived by the Pit.

 

I have no doubt that the Lotus is going to be used to Cure Thea but, it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

We were posting at the same time, but yes - this was a strong moment of stupid in the plot.

[quarks]

 

That's not fair, she shoved the stuff on the gurney (?) off the way! She helped!

 

Right! I totally forgot that she also may have broken some potentially expensive Arrow Cave equipment!

[tarotx]

Well enemies of the League may want to curb blood lust. They may be against killing so not wanting to kill these poor brainwashed people but instead curing them could be a true way to defeat the league? 

[blixie]

That was a solid episode I enjoyed seeing likable interesting recurring characters, and I liked the introduction of Felicity's dad, but it was a major place holder, and I had to laugh when I came here and realized that when Oliver said "I'm not in love with Taiana" and then Shadow said "you relationship is built on a lie" I assumed she meant him acting like he was in love with Taiana, NOT that he killed her brother and really was in love with Taiana. Hahahahaha. No one, NO ONE buys he's in love with Taiana show. The only reason I wasn't laying on the FF button to skip Taiana was because you bait and switched her with Shadow. LORDT.

Edited February 4, 2016 by blixie

[looptab]

Alright I just had a really stupid thought.  According to Nyssa the Lotus was developed by enemies of the League to counter the effects of the Pit.  Wouldn't that be the opposite of what Oliver wants?  They're making it sound like the Lotus can save Thea from her Bloodlust and/or eventual death if she refuses to kill.  

 

Yet, why would you're enemies develop something that is actually a cure or would help the LoA in some form?  I would think if I was an enemy of the LoA and I wanted to counter the effects of the Pit, then I would develop something that counter acts the healing aspects (forces the wounds to come back) or removes the stolen life from someone revived by the Pit.

 

I have no doubt that the Lotus is going to be used to Cure Thea but, it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

I was wondering about this in the spoilers thread. And yeah, the way Nyssa introduced it, as being developed by enemies one would think it'd cancel the healing powers, not the unconvenient side effects. But logic it's way too much to ask for.

[apinknightmare]

I was wondering about this in the spoilers thread. And yeah, the way Nyssa introduced it, as being developed by enemies one would think it'd cancel the healing powers, not the unconvenient side effects. But logic it's way too much to ask for.

 

I thought it would cancel out the healing effects too, but then there wouldn't be any reason for it to be guarded - that would be something an enemy would want them to have. This show is so stupid. I wish I didn't love it so much. 

[dtissagirl]

But hey, here's Thom Yorke's dancing homage to the stupidity:

 

[Whimsy]

REMINDER:  We don't allow personal attacks OR back-and-forth arguments.  If you feel you must argue with a specific poster, take it to PM.  Just remember, those are reportable too and must follow our "Be Civil" rule. 

[Primetimer]

We like Roy! We like Roy!

Read the story

[KirkB]

I may be alone in this, but I didn't get the sense Nyssa was telling Oliver to kill Malcolm because she wouldn't or couldn't. Rather I took it to mean she was basically telling him to clean up his own mess. "You're the one who protected him last year, even after what he did to your sister and Sara, and you're the one who put him on Ra's throne." Besides, considering the fact Malcolm is hanging out with Thea and the gang, in order to get to him Nyssa would have to fight her way through them since Oliver has proven himself willing to protect Malcolm no matter what. This way, either Oliver (who has no interest in the LoA) kills Malcolm and clears the way for her to take over with her losing any of her own people, or Malcolm kills Oliver (no big loss to her), and she has to finish it herself.

[Starfish35]

I like that interpretation.

[tarotx]

I may be alone in this, but I didn't get the sense Nyssa was telling Oliver to kill Malcolm because she wouldn't or couldn't. Rather I took it to mean she was basically telling him to clean up his own mess. "You're the one who protected him last year, even after what he did to your sister and Sara, and you're the one who put him on Ra's throne." Besides, considering the fact Malcolm is hanging out with Thea and the gang, in order to get to him Nyssa would have to fight her way through them since Oliver has proven himself willing to protect Malcolm no matter what. This way, either Oliver (who has no interest in the LoA) kills Malcolm and clears the way for her to take over with her losing any of her own people, or Malcolm kills Oliver (no big loss to her), and she has to finish it herself.

Exactly. Malcolm is Oliver's mess. We also have to remember that Malcolm is only the demon's head because Oliver gave him the title or ring if you will.

[bijoux]

Oh am I really bad person if I think Thea probably should just go kill a pedophile every few months?  I mean as long as she's sure they are guilty.  Oliver was killing people in season one whose sins were less than that as far as I'm concerned.

 

It's certainly not the worst of Malcolm's ideas. 

[Morrigan2575]

Another thing that bugged me about this episode...I actually paid attention to the flashbacks this week...and I realized that it is really difficult to tell the difference between Flashback Oliver and SC Oliver.  I'm not even talking about the physical appearance which is a bit annoying.  I'm talking about emotionally (I know this was mentioned up thread) but the Oliver/Shado scene very confusing.  S4 Flashback Oliver should be darker, more deadly, he should be mission focused and cold/cutoff from his emotions.    

 

I think they really lost their way in the Flashbacks, we're supposed to be seeing an inversion between the two timelines, as SC!Oliver moves towards GA/Hero, Flashback!Oliver should be getting closer and closer to Vigilante/Cold Blooded Killer and that's not what's happening, IMO.

[arjumand]

In contrast, even after we had to be told that Oliver "loved" Poppy, I still saw nothing in their interactions that indicated he felt anything for her but guilt that he killed her brother. Oliver had more chemistry with Shado's magic rock than he does with Poppy. The flashbacks are such a massive waste of time.

 

.......

And finally, I'm at the point where I want to throw a temper tantrum whenever Nanda Parbat and the LoA show up. Full on, all out, throwing things at the TV while screaming "No! No! No! Do not want!" That's how much I hate them. As bad as the flashbacks have been, I've accepted that they're inevitable as part of the show's structure. The LoA storylines, however, are constant reminders of the awfulness of season 3 and have no place in season 4 when there are already a million things going on in Star City. There's no point in them, just like there's no point in keeping MM around, and yet they keep. coming. back. I'd like to find out who at DC gave Arrow the go-ahead to use Ra's and the LoA and kick him where it hurts.

 

I bolded the above line because it's beautiful - and true. Seriously, when Shado said "your love", it's good I wasn't drinking anything because it would have been splattered all over my screen. I mean, seriously. YOUR WHAT? What the fuck are you talking about, Shado? I mean, I knew about the whole #OliverandPoppy-sittin'inatree flashback spoilers, but being a cynical bitch, thought it was just fucking. And I thought that was going to be part of his DARKNESS, EMBRACE IT OLIVER - not because sex is bad and wrong, but because of the icky power dynamics between them - but now that they're both prisoners I guess it's ok. Ugh. And to think I was worried about the potential grossness of the Bratva flashbacks.

 

Also, it's not that she's such a bad actress (look at the Hawks! LOOK AT THEM.), it's just that there is no chemistry between them. Nothing. Zip. Now I'm supposed to buy that he loves her? Huh? And she loves him? Wha? You know, writers, we're all adults here. We know that you don't have to love each other very very much to have sex.

 

Re. Your Nanda Parbat points - agree 100%. I groaned, audibly, when I saw the oh so familiar palace looming out of the darkness. And then the ending. Oh dear. I am conflicted. On the one hand, sure, go ahead. And if you don't want to, there's four hundred angry ghosts standing in line. On the other hand - Thea has accepted him as her father. She's not going to take it well.

 

Re. the "going back and forth to Central City" line - what I found most interesting was that he was looking at Felicity when he said it, and she didn't look shocked, or surprised at all. She didn't even ask him about it later ("Sooo - you and Central City, huh? You'd tell me if you were having an affair with Barry, right? 'Cos he's single now, and- Oliver, stop laughing. He's a good looking guy.").

 

I mean, what if, and this would be a mindfuck - what if Oliver's told her everything offscreen, and when they break up, it's for another reason? Ok, rationally I know that the show always goes for the most obvious route (Felicity isn't the tech genius we know and love because she worked her ass off at it all her life, no. She inherited it from her dad. Ugh.); but this would be awesome.

[bijoux]

Another thing that bugged me about this episode...I actually paid attention to the flashbacks this week...and I realized that it is really difficult to tell the difference between Flashback Oliver and SC Oliver.  I'm not even talking about the physical appearance which is a bit annoying.  I'm talking about emotionally (I know this was mentioned up thread) but the Oliver/Shado scene very confusing.  S4 Flashback Oliver should be darker, more deadly, he should be mission focused and cold/cutoff from his emotions.    

 

I think they really lost their way in the Flashbacks, we're supposed to be seeing an inversion between the two timelines, as SC!Oliver moves towards GA/Hero, Flashback!Oliver should be getting closer and closer to Vigilante/Cold Blooded Killer and that's not what's happening, IMO.

 

 

It can still be easily salvaged. Flashback Oliver kills her. Hello, darkness. Goodbye, humanity. Done and done.

 

 I mean, what if, and this would be a mindfuck - what if Oliver's told her everything offscreen, and when they break up, it's for another reason? Ok, rationally I know that the show always goes for the most obvious route (Felicity isn't the tech genius we know and love because she worked her ass off at it all her life, no. She inherited it from her dad. Ugh.); but this would be awesome.

 

It would be great, but it's never going to happen.

[quarks]

I have reconsidered. The flashbacks do serve a purpose! They have managed to do the impossible - get this entire forum to agree on something at last! YAY FLASHBACKS!

[looptab]

Right! I totally forgot that she also may have broken some potentially expensive Arrow Cave equipment!

She managed to get a laugh out of me, after she pulls out the tranq arrow off Roy, and keeps staring at it with the same expression I imagine the cavemen had on when they first discovered fire.

 

I thought it would cancel out the healing effects too, but then there wouldn't be any reason for it to be guarded - that would be something an enemy would want them to have. This show is so stupid. I wish I didn't love it so much. 

It is disheartening thinking that most of us put much more thought into stuff than they'll ever do, and we don't even get paid for it.

[Morrigan2575]

It can still be easily salvaged. Flashback Oliver kills her. Hello, darkness. Goodbye, humanity. Done and done.

 

Two thumbs up for this!  I agree, have Oliver kill Poppy and we have the mission oriented vigilante from S1

[HunterHunted]

I really missed Roy. Roy had a not so great upbringing, but heroing really changed him. It lightened him up, but also made him more responsible. With him, more than any other member of team arrow, I felt like it was a calling. Oliver felt like he was motivated by guilt and duty. Diggle duty and loyalty. Felicity love and adventure. Thea necessity and anger. And, Laurel arrogance and stupidity. But Roy, it felt like he had achieved a certain level of peace. He embraced the good and bad aspects of it and did it because he knew he could make a difference.

[AyChihuahua]

I mean, what if, and this would be a mindfuck - what if Oliver's told her everything offscreen, and when they break up, it's for another reason? Ok, rationally I know that the show always goes for the most obvious route (Felicity isn't the tech genius we know and love because she worked her ass off at it all her life, no. She inherited it from her dad. Ugh.); but this would be awesome.

That would be great, but I expect that he's been feeding her lies each time he goes, so his trips aren't new information to her, so no reason for her to react. It doesn't occur to her to be suspicious, bc she trusts him.

[arjumand]

That would be great, but I expect that he's been feeding her lies each time he goes, so his trips aren't new information to her, so no reason for her to react. It doesn't occur to her to be suspicious, bc she trusts him.

Ugh, you're right. No wonder she kicks his ass to the curb. This is bullshit.

[Xenith22]

I bolded the above line because it's beautiful - and true. Seriously, when Shado said "your love", it's good I wasn't drinking anything because it would have been splattered all over my screen. I mean, seriously. YOUR WHAT? What the fuck are you talking about, Shado? I mean, I knew about the whole #OliverandPoppy-sittin'inatree flashback spoilers, but being a cynical bitch, thought it was just fucking.

I'll say it again...normal people do not hallucinate conversations with dead people when they are thinking clearly.   Just because Oliver's hallucination tells him that he loves Taiana does not mean he actually does,  He's just been tortured for an undisclosed amount of time and suffering blood loss on top of who knows what else causing him to hallucinate Shado.

 

I thought it would cancel out the healing effects too, but then there wouldn't be any reason for it to be guarded - that would be something an enemy would want them to have. This show is so stupid. I wish I didn't love it so much.

A couple things here.  First I'm thinking the main intended effect it cancels is likely the immortality factor.   It's probably not going to make wounds that the body healed suddenly re-open?  Second it's probably guarded for one of two reasons.   First even if it does cancel out pit effects we have no reason to believe that was its original purpose and not a side effect (Nyssa could easilybe lying to Oliver about that part). Second it could be guarded because it is extremely rare and thus do not want the league destroying it?

Edited February 4, 2016 by Xenith22

[tennisgurl]

I like the idea that that Nyssa is telling Oliver to kill MM because its his damn problem and he needs to fix it. Hell, she might say just that next week. 

 

Honestly though, the Malcolm stuff is just driving me bonkers. I get that he is Thea's Father, I get that she has accepted him, but...the guy is a multiple murderer! He has killed hundreds of people, including Tommy and Sara. He is a bad guy, who is, in fact, still actively a bad guy. And, about his fatherhood, Malcolm aint exactly Father of the Year. From what we saw, he was a pretty crap dad to Tommy, even before his super villain side was exposed. And, his machine, you know, ended up killing him. And did that stop Malcolm from his villainy. Nope! He finds another kid, and proceeds to brainwash her to kill her friend, who would still be dead if Laurel hadn't brought her back (and by Laurel, I mean angry fans), and everyone is now apparently ok with this. There isnt even a bigger threat forcing you to team up with him now, he is just allowed to wonder around being evil, and even apparently being friendly with Oliver. Malcolm certainly has done more evil than Random Thug Number 3 that Oliver has mowed down. Its getting to Regina from Once Upon A Time levels of villain redemption bullshit. Hell, this might actually be worse, because, at the very least, Regina isn't still an active villain anymore. Malcolm is still a bad guy, he is still doing evil stuff. 

 

What I`m saying is, just freaking do it Oliver! 

[Orion]

Another thing that bugged me about this episode...I actually paid attention to the flashbacks this week...and I realized that it is really difficult to tell the difference between Flashback Oliver and SC Oliver.  I'm not even talking about the physical appearance which is a bit annoying.  I'm talking about emotionally (I know this was mentioned up thread) but the Oliver/Shado scene very confusing.  S4 Flashback Oliver should be darker, more deadly, he should be mission focused and cold/cutoff from his emotions.    

 

I think they really lost their way in the Flashbacks, we're supposed to be seeing an inversion between the two timelines, as SC!Oliver moves towards GA/Hero, Flashback!Oliver should be getting closer and closer to Vigilante/Cold Blooded Killer and that's not what's happening, IMO.

 

They made it even harder to differentiate between the Flashbacks and present day at one point in this episode. Your point reminded me of the really weird transition they had between Felicity and the Flashback where the wheel of Felicity's wheelchair rolled by in the foreground of the prison cell. I missed that scene completely (not that I don't zone out during the Flashbacks anyway) because I was trying to figure out if island Oliver was also hallucinating wheelchair bound Felicity or if present day Oliver was back in the cell and I somehow missed a huge plot point.  

 

I love that they got the accessibility issue in the lair figured out, but watching Felicity manoeuver down that ramp made me wonder about the design of the place in general. Why have the computer station raised like that? Why the railing around it? Why the one ramp? History shows that sometimes, when the bad guys find the Arrowlair, you have to be able to GTFO in a hurry. And since Felicity spends the most time there while the others are in the field, I have to wonder how effective that whole design would be if she ever needed to travel between her workstation and the exit in an emergency. I mean, she can't exactly just hop the guardrail and sprint for the door like everyone else. Aiming for that one narrow ramp and steering down it is a cumbersome process. Even taking down the railing (which does zero for safety anyway) so that she could roll off and drop to ground level in a life-or-death situation would be an improvement. I know it's THEIR lair, but that whole area of it is really Felicity's workstation, designed for her ease of use, so maybe it's time for a more practical re-design than just adding one little ramp.

 

ITA. But this issue is the perfect excuse to give Felicity a weapon. It's beyond idiotic that she doesn't already have one considering who she works with it. It would even be a fantastic excuse for a Digg/Felicity scene that I have been in desperate need of.

 

Diggle: "Felicity, you know how much this team needs you here. We struggled without you. Now that moving around is more difficult for you, I need you to come with me to the gun range and let me teach you how to protect yourself. Especially since the three places you hang out, the loft, the lair, and Palmer Tech all have a history of having super villains break into it. Once you've learned how to use a gun I don't want you to ever put it down. I need to know you can at protect yourself (at least a little *throwback to season one) or (because your irreplaceable *throwback to season 2)."  

 

The scenes at the gun range wouldn't even need to be shown. It would take up NO time in the plot and yet Felicity would have a new skill which would thrill me to death and address the new reality that her injuries slow her down.

 

And if they can't give me a Diggle scene because he's on lone to propping up other characters then have Felicity invent a computer generated force field around her wheelchair that goes on to save Palmer Tech so I can at least have that.

[benteen]

It honestly took me several minutes to even remember who Shado was when she popped up in Oliver's flashback.

[Guest]

I watched the episode again and it's even more disjointed than first viewing. So there was definitely far too much going on. Even though I enjoy Nyssa's fight scenes, I think maybe that could have been pushed to another episode and we just dealt with the VOTW and Thea/Roy stuff. Not every episode has to end with an ominous cliffhanger.

 

One thing I really liked about last week's episode was that every moment felt like it had time to breathe whereas this episode we were just cutting and flashing to the next scene all over the place. Pacing is a real trouble on this show.

[Menrva]

It was an okay episode. Liked seeing Tatsu and Nyssa again. And god, how I missed Thea and Roy together! I forgot how great they were as a couple and I'm sad we won't have that anymore. But there was a lot of stupid. 

 

The Calculator and the reveal at the end was good, as was Felicity snarking about his villian name. Of course, my brain then conjured up an equally idiotic idea that the Calculator has a sidekick. "Beware the Calculator and his plucky sidekick, Pocket Protector!" 

[quarks]

I'll be the lone voice here and say that I still love Malcolm and don't want him to die, especially if he's going to continue to point out the many ways that Oliver is an idiot. That's great. But I also don't think he should be hanging out in Laurel's apartment. He was responsible for her sister's temporary murder. 

[statsgirl]

I think just the fact that Ruve Adams has no background of internet history in 2016 would strongly suggest that she's a shady character.  They could have faked one but according to Alex, there's just nothing.

 

Since Oliver was chasing Roy in his street clothes (bad move, Oliver) and Roy had the camera, does that mean that Calculator now knows that Oliver is the Arrow?  By that, since Felicity is Oliver's fiance and an expert hacker, he must also know that his foe was Felicity.

 

"Just wait till you see what I've got planned for the subway cars."  Subway?  Did he miss season 1 when we learned there is no longer a subway under Starling City?

 

Flashback:  It's too soon for Oliver to start changing back and letting the darkness go.   He has to become more evil to get to the Oliver from the pilot.  The EPs chickened out.  So disappointing.

 

Also, Oliver is an idiot.  Why didn't he tell Poppy that her brother tried to kill him and it was self-defense?  In that sense, it really was Conklin who killed Luka.

 

Thea is very much on the death list for the grave. She's in a coma If she dies gradually over the next few episodes, then the "him" will be Malcolm.

 

I liked the " life, my choice" parallels with Thea and Roy. They really are perfect for each other.  Bye, Alex.

Still not sure why she doesn't just kill MM herself though. IMO they all deserve a stab at him. Nyssa, Sara, Thea, even Laurel. Felicity can whack him with a stick when he's down. LOL. Come on. Do it, show!

An update of Murder on the Orient Express.

[Guest]

I just realized Oliver legit looks like he's gonna tear up after Felicity gives her presentation. Ugh, why is he like this? 

 

 

I'll be the lone voice here and say that I still love Malcolm and don't want him to die, especially if he's going to continue to point out the many ways that Oliver is an idiot. That's great. But I also don't think he should be hanging out in Laurel's apartment. He was responsible for her sister's temporary murder. 

 

Although I would relish the idea of Malcolm getting his throat cut, LOL, if he doesn't die he just needs to be used better. And firmly known and treated like the actual villain he is. This wishy-washy 'he's my father, he's Thea's father' crap doesn't work because it makes everyone look dumb, especially Oliver.

[blackwing]

I can't stand Roy.  I think the actor is simply terrible, so I was hoping Roy was going to die in the explosion.  I hope he doesn't stick around.

 

Loved the return of Nyssa, Tatsu, and Shado.  I couldn't have cared less about "The Calculator", I would have been perfectly happy watching Nyssa, Tatsu and Shado sit in a circle and read the telephone book.  Katrina Law has such an alluring voice, I could never tire of it.

 

Pretty sure that Palmer Tech meeting wasn't open to the public.  I would imagine you would have had to have been invited or otherwise credentialed.  How did Calculator get in?  And he was sitting right next to Oliver.  How is it that Felicity didn't see him earlier before the Alias-reveal at the elevator?

[quarks]

 

 

And he was sitting right next to Oliver.  How is it that Felicity didn't see him earlier before the Alias-reveal at the elevator?

 

She couldn't see him because she was at wheelchair level - the only audience people she could see were those in the front row and those in the aisles.  If she'd been standing she could have picked him out immediately.

[Password]

That was very meh to me.

The best parts included Felicity and her dad and Theroy. I WAILED when they were saying goodbye. I miss Roy so much for his relationship with Thea. They were so wonderful.

Everything else...this episode needed 2 main plots at most. Instead it had Nyssa in Nanda Parbat and then Tatsu, it had Roy returning and having emotional moments with TA and the Calculator, it had Thea's boring (sorry Thea) bloodlust, Felicity dealing with a lack of confidence because of her disability, it had the RIDICULOUS flashback with Shado. Oh my gosh I died of laughter when Shado told him he's in love with Poppy. I actually died.

Too. Many. Plot. Points.

We needed much more of the Calculator and Felicity duking it out. Some villain of the week and Roy as the main plots then those stupid flashbacks (because we can't escape them).

I'm taking the easy way out: Oliver meant the CC crossover (or maybe LoT) and I refuse to believe he saw William at all because I'm in denial. I wouldn't be able to handle it if he actually saw William.

Nanda Parbat makes me grind my teeth to dust because we are NEVER FINISHED with this story. I don't care for it. Agh. I couldn't even care for Nyssa.

Get. Rid. Of. Malcolm.

[Slovenly Muse]

 

LOL seriously though. Okay? My point was everyone gets magically healed apart from Felicity. Magic tea, magic lotus flower...and none for Felicity Smoak!

 

Well... how long have we had to endure this Lazarus Pit/Bloodlust storyline before the magic flower finally appeared? And the lotus has only just been introduced, who knows how long it will take to actually be used? I think three episodes in a wheelchair is a little soon to be giving up on a cure. This is a pretty great storyline for the Felicity character, and I would be really disappointed if it was already over. Plus, as Racj82 said, this is a readjustment for Felicity, not a life-or-death situation (like Thea's). Thea's problem is magical in nature, and so requires a magic flower to solve. I have a feeling science will come through for Felicity. And, yes, there's the possibility that it will stick, and if it does, I would actually be okay with that. Not because I want Felicity to be in a wheelchair forever, or because consequences are "realistic," but because when people, civilians like Felicity, put themselves in dangerous situations to help others, they can be hurt or killed. Taking that risk, and suffering those consequences, and taking that risk again anyway... that makes Felicity a hero. I don't need or want to watch our heroes working with a safety net, secure in the knowledge that they'll always regain whatever they lose. That's not real sacrifice. It cheapens the serious risks they take. Whether or not this sticks, it has to at least FEEL like it will stick in order to mean anything. I am sure Felicity will walk again, but I hope the show takes its sweet time getting there, and does this right.

[calliope1975]

I know the show is telling me that FB!Oliver loves #Poppy (sorry, I'm stealing this; it totally makes me laugh and I need some joy with this show,) but even though it's canon, it's so patently false and hasn't been shown, that I refuse to believe it. It would be like telling me Roy was the POTUS while he was away. Okay, sure, I understand you are telling me this is true, but it is clearly not. If he had said Shado - sure! Laurel - ok, but sure! Slade - why not?! But #Poppy? Noppity nope.

[Delphi]

Wow, that was a lot to catch up on. You guys have been busy.

Okay. I loved it. And for once not only for Ms. Smoak. They brought back my baby Roy and didn't kill him! I love the Felicity Roy relationship. Probably because of Emily and Colton. You can really see it come through the screen, the way that Colton sort of shifts himself closer to Emily. I loved him apologizing for her accident and her crestfallen look.

Nyssa, my love. Yes, Malcolm is skum. I love you and you fight beautifully. But it's pretty shitty to barter with Thea's life. If I was Oliver, i would have just been like, "Well, I gave Sara back her soul, so maybe you owe me Wifey."

Tatsu is always welcome. I'm not sure why she had her mask on during meditation but okay. I also like the possibility of past history between Nyssa and Tatsu. Bottom line, no killing Nyssa or Tatsu.

Nyssa has loyalists! Of course she fucking does, she's the HBIC.

I enjoyed Calculator, but come on, the second I found out he was gonna be on we all knew he was gonna be Daddy. I wonder if that's why they chose Overwatch instead of Proxy, so they could try to keep people in the dark.

What really bugs me is why fuck they don't call back John Constantine to fix Thea. He's presumably not too busy.

[Guest]

The only way I'm gonna accept Oliver 'loving' #Poppy is by believing that he's been so starved for affection and care during his time away that he's latching on to something the first chance he gets. But I really don't believe it for one second. Another case where they're telling us this crap and not showing us. 

[tarotx]

I personally don't find Thea's bloodlust boring. It was especially interesting in this episode.  The Nyssa and Tatsu fight should have been cut even if it was cool. Even the Nanda Parbat stuff could have been shortened. We didn't need to see the random League members fight before Nyssa reached the final room. Just show some members down and the others bow to Nyssa. 

[Happy Harpy]

The only way I'm gonna accept Oliver 'loving' #Poppy is by believing that he's been so starved for affection and care during his time away that he's latching on to something the first chance he gets.

Oh, I see. They're actually explaining why he was back to "loving" Laurel in the pilot. Maybe I should be impressed.

[Guest]

I personally don't find Thea's bloodlust boring. It was especially interesting in this episode. 

 

I don't find Thea's challenge with bloodlust boring. But the issues it bought up in this episode - mainly with Thea being in hospital again and Oliver trying to save her again felt a bit like a retread of s3. And the 'my choice, my life' stuff was just so heavy handed and repeated too much (and also said by Felicity in s2 so it's well and truly overdone by now).

[Delphi]

Am I supposed to believe that the citizens and police force actually believe that Arrow and the Green Arrow are entirely different people and that tiny parkour ninja Roy Harper was seriously the vigilante known as the Hood at roughly seventeen years old? Is there acid in the water supply?

[calliope1975]

Am I supposed to believe that the citizens and police force actually believe that Arrow and the Green Arrow are entirely different people and that tiny parkour ninja Roy Harper was seriously the vigilante known as the Hood at roughly seventeen years old? Is there acid in the water supply?

 

Well, look at the citizens and police force that we're dealing with here. They aren't known for their smarts.

[tarotx]

I liked it in the episode. They have to remove Thea off the death list somehow ;) Seems they are going in order of Fiancee, sister and then best friend. Maybe a :p but it's the the traditional hierarchy of importance. Wife&kids and then siblings&parents and then best friends. Leaving it to the Lance's and the non main cast. And then to Just Lance. Or so goes my theories. Any way I wasn't trying to change your opinion or anything. Just giving mine.

I don't find Thea's challenge with bloodlust boring. But the issues it bought up in this episode - mainly with Thea being in hospital again and Oliver trying to save her again felt a bit like a retread of s3. And the 'my choice, my life' stuff was just so heavy handed and repeated too much (and also said by Felicity in s2 so it's well and truly overdone by now).