S03.E10: Celebrations

[SnarkKitty]

Maybe Tres is the one who deserves the benefit of the doubt, and Vanessa, who at 25 with one long relationship couldn't WAIT to be married is the one with the issues. And is in fact exactly as insecure as she projects because she's insecure, not because Tres is cute and charming. Her own mother has said she behaves this way, and it started long before she met Tres.

 

I saw it upthread that David and Vanessa should have been paired. Maybe - they're both so into the need to be Married! With a capital M! Right now! And think everything should have been settled with "I Do." Add water and presto, instant marriage. Vanessa won't accept the messy steps getting there, and David won't acknowledge them. Match made in MFS heaven.

[Snarklepuss]

Yeah, and when she cackled laughing "HE FELL ON HIS FACE!!!" I thought "this bitch is a fucking sociopath." It's not funny when someone actually gets hurt, or lands on a part that could get hurt. And that she pulled this prank at work, she said "our banker," so they weren't on the same level at work. He was either over her or under her. Either possibility is horrifying.

 

I also loved the dead silence after, when asked why they were matched, she said "we're both really NICE PEOPLE." *stare in silence*

 

I agree, Sam's a sociopath but I also think she's a liar because that story seems so fake.  No one in any business office, especially a bank, would do something like that and have other people laugh at it.  Everyone would be like, "OMG, are you OK?" to the guy and she would have a lot of explaining to do.  That just trips my BS meter so far over it's not funny.  I think she thinks it would be a funny prank because she is deluded about what other people would find funny and how something so lame would come off in reality.  But that is just typical of her lack of self and other awareness.

[izabella]

I agree, Sam's a sociopath but I also think she's a liar because that story seems so fake.  No one in any business office, especially a bank, would do something like that and have other people laugh at it.  Everyone would be like, "OMG, are you OK?" to the guy and she would have a lot of explaining to do.  That just trips my BS meter so far over it's not funny.  I think she thinks it would be a funny prank because she is deluded about what other people would find funny and how something so lame would come off in reality.  But that is just typical of her lack of self and other awareness.

 

Yeah, if someone did that to me at work so people could laugh, HR would be getting a call from my phone about harassment, hostile work environment, and bullying in the workplace.

[Jack Sampson]

Yeah, if someone did that to me at work so people could laugh, HR would be getting a call from my phone about harassment, hostile work environment, and bullying in the workplace.

It would be time for me to revisit my "no slapping employees" policy.

[Snarklepuss]

 What irks me about Vanessa is that she has all these husband expectations for Tres that she has yet to articulate. Tres is really trying to be the best he can be and all she has to do is communicate her feelings with him. But, no, the moment there's a minor conflict she runs away like she's Ryan D. from Season 2. It seems like the only requirement Tres has for Vanessa is that she not abandon him when they have a disagreement. You know it wouldn't fly if Tres abandoned Vanessa in the middle of an argument. He just wanted to talk it out even if it meant her yelling at him. I don't get what her problem was in the first place. Love is a big word that shouldn't be taken lightly. Married or not, it shouldn't be uttered within the first month of meeting someone. Vanessa seems to be looking for nonexistent red flags to sabotage the relationship, but Tres seems like a really good, patient guy for her.

 

On the one hand, I think Vanessa is rushing things with Tres.  On the other, she signed up to be married, not to be someone's girlfriend, so she has some legitimate beef with him not being so ready for marriage.  I think Tres has gotten the message loud and clear that she wants a husband, not a boyfriend, and he has been telling her that he is going as fast as he can and can't act like a husband if he doesn't feel like one yet.  Vanessa is taking that as a rejection when she should probably lower her expectations somewhat and be willing to live with some uncertainty about his feelings for her and the future of the relationship.  He may come around in time if she doesn't push too hard or stage any more clingy-desperate acts like she did in this episode.  I know she signed on for marriage, but this is a unique situation and you can't expect someone to be at point C when they are only at point A and not emotionally not ready for it.  If she could tell herself that they're dating and see how things go and wait to see if he grows into being ready for marriage they may have a shot.  But if she keeps acting clingy and desperate she will turn his not being into her into a self-fulfilling prophecy.  The way Tres has been acting he could go either way.  It's a crap-shoot as to whether he would eventually fall for her or dump her but if she thinks he's worth it she should find the guts to wait it out.  After all, all relationships involve risk.  Even having a guy act like he's really into you and ready for marriage is no guarantee that next week he might start to feel differently.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[ProzacQueen]

The Vanessa/Tres/BFF thing, hit too close to home, and took me back to my single days, and how crappy I was in relationships. Back then, I had a boyfriend, that had a girl BFF, plus having my won abandonment/trust issues and lack of communication skills. It was a recipe for disaster, and the relationship imploded, with disastrous results. Watching Vanessa, was like watching myself, 15+ years ago. While how she acted wasn't the right way, I totally understand why she reacted that way. 

[SnarkKitty]

It would be time for me to revisit my "no slapping employees" policy.

 

This earned a literal laugh out loud. Guffaw, even.

[izabella]

On the one hand, I think Vanessa is rushing things with Tres.  On the other, she signed up to be married, not to be someone's girlfriend, so she has some legitimate beef with him not being so ready for marriage.

 

I wonder how Vanessa would have felt if she'd been paired up with someone who treats her like Ashley treats David.  Vanessa got lucky; Tres is at least trying and present and communicates with her.

[Snarklepuss]

I don't think Vanessa reacted badly to Jenna because of "abandonment issues." I cannot imagine any wife being happy when her husband's hot female friend walks in, and both of their faces light up on seeing each other, and he refers to the female friend as "my girl."

 

Vanessa is reacting badly because her husband is putting the feelings of "just a friend" over those of his wife. Her gut is screaming at her that there's something very wrong here, and she's right. 

 

I don't understand people who think they can get married but still change nothing about their old lives, including putting attractive opposite-sex friends first and expecting their spouses to take second place and smile about it. Being Married means your husband/wife comes first - period. Not your hot friends or former screwbuddies or previous lovers. 

 

If you're not willing to put your spouse first 100% of the time, you should not be married. If your first reaction to that idea is, "But what about my friend???" then You Should Not Be Married.

 

I agree with you, Tres should not have signed up for this show if he wasn't really ready for marriage.  Vanessa knows this and it's eating her up inside and making her even more insecure than before, which will only make him less ready, not more.  If she really likes the guy and wants a future she will have to accept him where he is now, only I do agree with you that he should not have signed up for this if he were not further along in his development and ready to treat Vanessa like a wife.  She does have a point there.  And I agree that he shouldn't have called the friend "his girl" or acted like the friend came before the wife.  But then again that's because he's just not ready for marriage.  Can Vanessa accept that and see if it grows in time?  I kind of doubt it.  Should she?  I don't know if that's a fair question.  I think she should decide based on how important he is to her.  Unfortunately when I think of Vanessa in that way I don't see that Tres is really all that important to her as a person and not just "a husband".  Being married is very important to her and he just happens to be the guy they married her to.  But I don't sense that it's that much about HIM.  She wants him to be "in love" with her but she is not really there with him either because she needs to step back and let that grow on its own if it's to grow at all.

[qtpye]

Do you guy's think that if Vanessa had a handsome platonic male friend she was very close with, that Tres would be okay with it?  I am not asking to diss Tres...this is just a sincere question on my part.  I really have no idea if he practices what he preaches.

 

I think the problem is not the question of whether you can be platonic friends with hetero people of a different gender, but the fact that Vanessa and Tres have very different viewpoints on this particular issue.

 

As we have seen from this board, this is not a yes or no question.  Depending on experiences and beliefs, we have gotten a wide range of responses to this single question.

 

It has been Vanessa's opinion and experience, that all her guy friends wanted to get with her at some point.  So, she does not believe hetero guys and girls can be best friends, because of this.  Also, no matter what her belief, it seems she is not one hundred percent secure in Tres's intentions, so her natural insecurity came out with Jenna.

 

Tres claims he has close female friends that are fully platonic relationships.  He does not seem to be sweating over Vanessa's feelings for him.  He seems pretty confident that she likes him and will want to stay married to him, as long as he does not act like a player.

[Snarklepuss]

Again, thanks for articulating my thoughts. The fantasy marriage Vanessa's dreamed up needs to be earned, IN EVERY WAY. Cooking a few meals together and sharing a bathroom = roommate. Not LOVE of my life. I think she's one of those women who believes that the marriage certificate is the proof of devotion. Because Tres is her husband on paper, he must automatically be the model from the good husband handbook. life doesn't work like that. Most people think Vanessa was ready for marriage, but I think the only thing she's ready for is a fairy tale. 

 

I still stand by my prediction that she will be the one to bail out on the marriage. Tres seems to be acting like a typical 27 year old guy who's found himself married to an attractive woman his family gets along with. Vanessa thinks being married means they're either reading poetry together or showing everyone how much they love each other. If she's so concerned about his partying ways, then go dancing with him and show him you can have fun as a young couple. But don't complain that a man who was clubbing 4 weeks ago is lousy husband material because he's not trying to stay home and watch your dog puke. A TV show (with a terrible record & dubious experts) matched you. Don't be acting like Cupid herself came and shot you both in the ass.

 

So much word to this.....Given what I've written today I think you will see why I agree with you 10,000% and then some.  Vanessa clearly needs to get a reality check on her expectations and wait things out to see if they grow.  But I also think you're right that she won't want to do that.  She's another person who wants a fully-formed marriage without having to go through all the uncertainty and waiting that it takes to see where a relationship goes.  She will take Tres' not being fully ready for marriage as a rejection and a sign that he's not into her when he may be into her about as much as can be expected for a guy who knows a woman for about a month.  And because of that I think you're right that she'll be the one to bail.  Either that or she knows something really bad about Tres that the audience doesn't and she's reacting to that.  We'll have to wait to find out which one it is.

[moonxyz]

I wonder how Vanessa would have felt if she'd been paired up with someone who treats her like Ashley treats David.  Vanessa got lucky; Tres is at least trying and present and communicates with her.

 

Most people are not like Ashley or Sam. They are extreme example of poor human behavior.

 

Just because Tres hasn't called Vanessa a bitch or kicked her out of the house, doesn't mean that everything he does should be overlooked. My point is that with Tres, just like Basement Ryan in season 2 and even Sean , the foul things that he does gets overlooked. This is especially true for this season because there are more obvious and bigger fuck ups (Sam & Ashley).

 

Personally for me it's all about your intentions coming onto this show. Tres was recruited and had to be convinced by production to get married. I therefore question everything he says or does. All of the men from season 2 were recruited and turned out to be duds. The only male contestant that was not recruited (Neil) displays signs of being extremely committed, to the point of tolerating abuse. From Tres, I get more a "let's see how it goes vibe". Heck these past episodes, he's barely initiating physical contact with Vanessa and is reminiscing (4 weeks in to the marriage) about his old life. Vanessa despite her faults would never think about her single life, let alone mention it on the show. She wants to stay married. Tres does not in my opinion.

[Adeejay]

Based on some of the behaviors being attributed to David and Tres, I am reminded of that saying, "which are you going to believe, what I am telling you or your lying eyes and ears?"

[JennyMominFL]

Well, I always had men wanting "more" from me but ironically I have always had more male platonic friends than female.  If they were raised right hand have any ounce of class and respect for a woman they can manage to be your platonic friend even if they do find you attractive and it doesn't mean the guy's a dud or anything just a decent person.  I am trying to believe that Tres is one of those men.  I feel sorry for Vanessa that she automatically assumes the worst of men and of Tres.  That's actually an insult to men in general, IMHO.  I understand it given her history, but I think she needs to give the guy a chance.

I too have had and currently have many male friends. I am 45 and it has been that way all of my life. In fact I have few female friends. I've also been with my husband for 45 years. I guess  that maybe the differences is that we are both friends with my male friends. One or two are gay , but not most. My  closest friend is a straight man and we have even travelled together in Europe and the USA. Sometimes it is 3 of us and sometimes 4 if his girlfriend comes. There is no physical attraction going  on.

[ethalfrida]

To suggest that Tres has exhibited "foul" behavior is absurd.

Wasn't everyone from season 1 recruited? Jamie certainly was just looking to get on another reality show, not because she desperately wanted to be married. Now she's the show's biggest success story.

I agree and do not know where this attitude about him comes from.

 

And serious truth about Jamie.

[Snarklepuss]

Neil and Sam-This is the first episode where I could see a marriage between Neil and Sam working. Of course it has to be on Sam's terms and she has to be the one who wears the short shorts in the relationship. I've noticed that as long as the focus is on Sam that they can function as a couple. Whether it's a surprise birthday for Sam, Jewish cooking, or exercising with silks, if Neil takes an interest in Sam's life, then they're okay. I've seen marriages like this work. My brother and dad are both whipped and the marriage works only because they're willing to walk on eggshells for their wives. They know that if they step out of line, their wives will shun them as we saw when Neil made an innocent joke and was kicked out of the apartment by Sam. It seems like Neil's friends were similar to Sam so he can deal with that personality type. And if he's really as selfless IRL as he appears on the show, there's a possibility of this marriage lasting a little while. However, I can't imagine anyone being able to tolerate or asskiss Sam for an eternity. Even so, I think Sam will find comfort in Neil being there for her, and Neil is solid enough that he doesn't need the same in return. His only requirement seems to be that they live under the same roof. That's quite a reasonable request since they are married.

 

I'm with you - As hard as it might be for some to believe, there are masochists out there who would LOVE being married to a woman like Sam.  I've seen it before in my personal life (and want to vomit) but the couple couldn't be happier.  I think that Neil is actually showing signs of being a masochist to Sam's Narcissist.  This could be a match made in heaven, LOL.  I have seen him defer to her and act very pussy-whipped (sorry for the expression but it works) in ways that make me want to check his pants for a set of male genitalia.  So it could be that he would be very happy involved with someone like that.

 

Speaking of that, my ex boss (a woman) had a marriage like that - And not unsurprisingly, she too was a narcissist who was the dominant person in the relationship (she was also horrible to work for, thank GOD she's gone!).  I had access to her email being an exec. admin. and some of the "honey do" lists she used to send her husband were 25 lines long!!  He was like her little step and fetch-it.  I would wish for better for Neil but who really knows what floats his boat?  He may not be as "normal" as he appears to be. 

[jamblastx]

 

 

I saw it upthread that David and Vanessa should have been paired. Maybe - they're both so into the need to be Married! With a capital M! Right now! And think everything should have been settled with "I Do." Add water and presto, instant marriage. Vanessa won't accept the messy steps getting there, and David won't acknowledge them. Match made in MFS heaven.

Hmmm....I think you are onto something here and not just about Vanessa and David but by all of the three seasons of participants in this 'experiment'.  These people do not act as if they are looking at this as an arranged marriage which could have some downsides, they are looking at this as finding a relationship via personal assistants who do all the 'work' of figuring out 'perfect' matches and then having them delivered by Amazon.com.  It's an instant gratification marriage that are ALL doomed to fail because the expectations are even higher than a 'traditional' marriage.  These people are expecting perfection and perfect matches and even in a best case scenario, they aren't and they are ultimately disappointed. 

[qtpye]

I'm with you - As hard as it might be for some to believe, there are masochists out there who would LOVE being married to a woman like Sam.  I've seen it before in my personal life (and want to vomit) but the couple couldn't be happier.  I think that Neil is actually showing signs of being a masochist to Sam's Narcissist.  This could be a match made in heaven, LOL.  I have seen him defer to her and act very pussy-whipped (sorry for the expression but it works) in ways that make me want to check his pants for a set of male genitalia.  So it could be that he would be very happy involved with someone like that.

 

 

Yes, I have also seen this.  People often feel sorry for these men and think they are married to shrew, but the men secretly love it.  I remember Dr. Pepper described Neil as "extremely passive" and that Sam's dominance would be a good match for him.

 

I think the original guy (who masochism is named for) often wanted his wife to treat him like a servant.

 

Neil being a masochist will probably explain why (besides money) he would stay in this marriage.  I hate to see anyone being disrespected, but consenting adults can do what they want, if it does not break the law.

Edited February 5, 2016 by qtpye

[ethalfrida]

Yes, I have also seen this.  People often feel sorry for these men and think they are married to shrew, but the men secretly love it.  I remember Dr. Pepper described Neil as "extremely passive" and that Sam's dominance would be a good match for him.

That paints a whole nother picture in my head, lol.

[mythoughtis]

What Ashley actually said was ' I got a call last night that you asked a woman out for drinks last weekend'.   That's all we got.  

 

Now, let's look at this in context'.  Last weekend would presumably have been shortly after the visit with the experts where David was told Ashley didn't like him, and not to touch her.  It also would have been shortly after the couch exercise where she couldn't name 1 thing she liked about David, then couldn't write down a darn thing she wanted to do to help make their situation better ' She wanted to want to work on their situation, but she was just too exhausted and overwhelmed'.  She also told him that 'things were stacked against them' in terms of continuing  past 6 weeks. 

 

Now, if you had just been thru all that, and went to a bar to have a drink or to visit with friends... might YOU ask someone for their number to use after the six weeks were over?

[Kareem]

No. I would've just stuck a fork in her head at the wedding, right after the continual blank stares, and just called it a day.

[Waterlilly]

I'm sorry but I needed that laugh Kareem after the sad day I had. Thank you!

[Vinyasa]

And in the scene where he brings her a cupcake and flowers I swear I saw her in another episode wearing that top and those shoes with her hair all curly like that.

 

Yep, you're right. She had on that top, black tights and curly hair when David grabbed her on the bed and the dog was between them. Then she put the dog out of the bedroom and shuts the door.

 

Of course, that dog is always between them.

[MsPH]

Nothing I can say about Ashley that hasn't been said already. I was seeing the same thing David was, Ashley mingling with his friends, smiling and looking surprisingly at ease, but then we get to Ashley's TH and of course she is complaining. Of course! I felt so bad for David when he was excited about the party being a success and Ashley just shat all over it and acted like he'd seriously wronged her somehow. She is a nightmare! If she wanted David's company, for the first time in a month, she could've gone to him. But oh no, she can't possibly initiate anything, because David might get the wrong idea. Better to just complain afterwards so David can feel like crap again. I wouldn't be surprised if she had no friends to invite. Maybe the bridesmaids were distant relatives or something and that's why they didn't know she's against strippers.

 

Can't say anything about the cliffhanger, since we haven't gotten David's side of the story yet. I do think it's a bit shady on his part if he did ask a girl out, since he keeps telling us and her that he's still committed to his marriage. But maybe he is now and it was just a stupid idea he had right after the meeting with Dr C. Or maybe it was nothing. Just have to wait and see.

 

Still hate Sam. Cannot stand her! She is so completely wrapped up in her own awesomeness that she wouldn't notice if someone was having a heart attack next to her. It was so obvious that Neil was quiet because he was ashamed of her godawful behaviour and scared she would humiliate him again if he opened his mouth. Who the fvck gave Sam the right to decide what is fake and what isn't? She's a total fake herself! The boisterous persona she's created for herself is so totally put on. It's not that she doesn't have manners it's that she chooses not to use them.

 

It's so sad how far Neil has retreated in presence. He was a totally different person in the first couple of episodes. I also saw more warmth in the interaction with Sammie than I've ever seen between Neil and Sam. I guess it was nice to commiserate with another one of Sam's victims.

 

Vanessa was being a big baby in this episode. I've had my doubts about Tres from the beginning, but I was actually sold on his sincerity when he looked totally sick to his stomach after Vanessa had left. He looked genuinely scared of what was happening. I just don't see how he could possibly be trying to get rid of her. He was also trying so hard to communicate with her even though she was acting like a brick wall. Many men would've gotten pissed off with her silent treatment but Tres seemed really concerned about what was bothering her. I like how he calmly explained his feelings when she got back. It's like he'd been thinking about what to say all night.

 

I think women and men CAN be just friends. It depends on the people, the circumstances, how they met, what they have in common etc. etc. But at the end of the day none of that matters. If your spouse is the cheating kind they will find a way to cheat without having female friends. What is the point of a relationship if you can't trust your partner? You can't lock them in a room and throw away the key, so trying to keep them away from the opposite sex like you think they can't keep ther pants on around other people is just an endless task. Why even start, because if you do have a reason to worry, then you're just delaying the inevitable. What a waste of time! It's better to let people show you exactly who they are as soon as possible.

 

If Tres and Jenna have been friends for years and haven't seriously dated, then there must be a reason for that. Maybe they tried at some point and it failed, who knows, but I don't see why they'd decide to give it a go now that Tres is married. It makes no sense to me. Vanessa was acting pretty ridiculous around her. You'd think she'd shown up in her underwear trying to seduce Tres or something.

 

I also thought Vanessa was blowing the love thing way out of proportion. I think she is in love with Tres and that's why she reacted so strongly. She also looked pretty transparent when she said they're not in love yet. The lady doth protest too much. I know I've never acted more irrational than when I was in love with a guy who only kept me around for an ego stroke. I think Tres is getting there though and she should give him a chance. I doubt he'll turn into a perfect husband overnight no matter how hard he tries, but he is trying. She's already in so deep she might as well ride this out and see what happens. It's not like she's in a mad rush to find a forever spouse anyway yet, since she's still so young. Give the man a chance!

[Soup333]

And I agree that he shouldn't have called the friend "his girl" or acted like the friend came before the wife.  But then again that's because he's just not ready for marriage.  Can Vanessa accept that and see if it grows in time?  I kind of doubt it.  Should she?  I don't know if that's a fair question.  I think she should decide based on how important he is to her. 

 

I feel like this needs to be addressed because I've read several comments saying it was inappropriate. Perhaps this is a cultural misunderstanding. When Tres says, "Jenna is my girl," it does not have to mean anything other than she is his friend. The terms "my girl" or "my dude" suggest a fondness for or an affinity for a person. It could be someone you don't even know. The teller I usually go to at the bank is "my girl", even though we don't know each other outside of that context. I have many friends, both male and female that I refer to this way. Strictly platonic relationships, all of them. 

 

Of course that phrase could also mean there is an ongoing romantic relationship, but if there was something going on between he and Jenna, I highly doubt he would admit to it on camera in that way. Without a doubt, Vanessa would know what that phrase meant if he actually said, "My girl Jenna is coming over." Of all things she could have been bothered by about him inviting her over, using "my girl" in that context is NOT one of them. It was an appropriate use of that term for someone who has been his friend for years.

[Snarklepuss]

I feel like this needs to be addressed because I've read several comments saying it was inappropriate. Perhaps this is a cultural misunderstanding. When Tres says, "Jenna is my girl," it does not have to mean anything other than she is his friend. The terms "my girl" or "my dude" suggest a fondness for or an affinity for a person. It could be someone you don't even know. The teller I usually go to at the bank is "my girl", even though we don't know each other outside of that context. I have many friends, both male and female that I refer to this way. Strictly platonic relationships, all of them.

 

That's interesting - I think it is a cultural misunderstanding as I'm not familiar with that usage of the phrase.

[Snarklepuss]

I think women and men CAN be just friends. It depends on the people, the circumstances, how they met, what they have in common etc. etc. But at the end of the day none of that matters. If your spouse is the cheating kind they will find a way to cheat without having female friends. What is the point of a relationship if you can't trust your partner? You can't lock them in a room and throw away the key, so trying to keep them away from the opposite sex like you think they can't keep ther pants on around other people is just an endless task. Why even start, because if you do have a reason to worry, then you're just delaying the inevitable. What a waste of time! It's better to let people show you exactly who they are as soon as possible.

 

ITA, very well put!  I don't get people who are so insecure in their relationships that they feel threatened by their spouse's platonic friends, but it seems to be very common and Vanessa has a lot of company.  I don't know if I believe that a spouse should indulge their partner in that insecurity either, especially if it's misplaced.  I certainly think a spouse should respect their partner's jealous feelings, but even if it means telling them to drop a good friend?  How much is too much to ask from a spouse?  I have been in this situation more times than I can count.  I always had at least as many male platonic friends as female, and when I was young and they were single it was fine, but one by one they got married an inevitably dropped out of sight because of a jealous wife.  Now a few of them Facebook me every now and then but that's it.  I also had a more recent male friend who after 12 years of knowing him called me to announce that he was going to have to stop communicating with me altogether because he was getting married (I knew he was dating) and his wife to be was "the jealous type".  Never mind that he was now living on the West Coast while I'm in New England!   I told him, "What does she think we're going to do, have Skype sex?"  LOL  (P.S. - I have not heard from him going on 5 years now.  It sucks!)

 

Now I understand what it's like to feel jealous, but fortunately I trust my husband completely and he doesn't do anything to make me feel that anything suspicious is going on with his female friends, so I don't have this issue in my marriage.  I would never want to be in a marriage and feel that insecure.  I also think it's horribly unfair to a spouse to make a person feel like they have to give up good friends to be in the relationship unless those friends have severely disrespected them.  I would never want to make my husband do that for me.  I would want to either learn to trust my husband and get over my insecurity with him or if there really was any reason not to trust him, address that with him separately until we reach an understanding, or if not, end the relationship. 

Edited February 6, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Empress1]

I feel like this needs to be addressed because I've read several comments saying it was inappropriate. Perhaps this is a cultural misunderstanding. When Tres says, "Jenna is my girl," it does not have to mean anything other than she is his friend. The terms "my girl" or "my dude" suggest a fondness for or an affinity for a person. It could be someone you don't even know. The teller I usually go to at the bank is "my girl", even though we don't know each other outside of that context. I have many friends, both male and female that I refer to this way. Strictly platonic relationships, all of them.

Of course that phrase could also mean there is an ongoing romantic relationship, but if there was something going on between he and Jenna, I highly doubt he would admit to it on camera in that way. Without a doubt, Vanessa would know what that phrase meant if he actually said, "My girl Jenna is coming over." Of all things she could have been bothered by about him inviting her over, using "my girl" in that context is NOT one of them. It was an appropriate use of that term for someone who has been his friend for years.

Agreed. Maybe it's a black thing? I say "my girl" or "my girls" all the time about my female platonic friends, and I'd say "that's my boy, we went to school together" or something. I'm pretty sure Tres has referenced his boys before. My brother says "my boy" and "my boys" all the time. When Tres said "that's my girl" it didn't occur to me that he meant it like "my romantic/sexual girlfriend."

[mythoughtis]

Part of what annoys me about Vanessa's reaction to Jenna is that Vanessa acted as if Tres was her best friend/lover/significant other for the rest of her life, and that Jenna was a hussy come to steal him.  That's a lot to assume when you've never met the person, and when your husband invites the woman to a group setting rather than goes off to dinner with her by himself.   Second.... she and Tres may split up IN TWO WEEKS. ... wait and see if you are going to both say 'stay together' before you start asking/demanding that he cut people out of his life. 

 

On the comment that Tres said about love being a strong word.... again the man may be gone in two weeks.  I doubt the two of you have exchanged I love yous, so she  should have just laughed it off.

[Jack Sampson]

That's a lot to assume when you've never met the person, and when your husband invites the woman to a group setting rather than goes off to dinner with her by himself.

That's a good point. It's not like Vanessa came home to find Tres and Jenna on the couch drinking and watching a movie or sitting in the hot tub or even building a pillow fort - he invited a friend to a party. Maybe he thought she could meet someone there.

[princelina]

Agreed. Maybe it's a black thing? I say "my girl" or "my girls" all the time about my female platonic friends, and I'd say "that's my boy, we went to school together" or something. I'm pretty sure Tres has referenced his boys before. My brother says "my boy" and "my boys" all the time. When Tres said "that's my girl" it didn't occur to me that he meant it like "my romantic/sexual girlfriend."

Mr. P uses that expression all the time - I usually know who "his girl" is but he says "my boy" and I have to ask him to be more specific :)  And we are white.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I wonder how Vanessa would have felt if she'd been paired up with someone who treats her like Ashley treats David.  Vanessa got lucky; Tres is at least trying and present and communicates with her.

 

...and I wonder how Vanessa would have felt if she'd been paired up with someone who treats her like David treats Ashley. I think she would have loved it.

[Jassie99]

Yeah it saddens me people still think men and women can't be platonic in 2016. Its like saying gay men can't be friends with straight guys. Its absurd.

 

However, Tres has said on Twitter Jenna's boyfriend who is also his friend couldn't make it. He also mentioned other girls were invited who couldn't make it. They all hang out in large groups (shame he had to clarify). I totally get his confusion. Tres is a outgoing guy and myself being married to one I totally get him. Hell on girls night out some of my friends want my husband to come along, heck once I was sick and he took my place and had a blast. Its all about personality and insecurity. I think in Tres case seeing as for some on here are looking for something wrong with him then its this. He's a player. He's not ready. He's a phony and so on. I honestly think he is really all in on this and trying unlike Ashley. He seem too good to be true as he says the right things but sometimes people do say the right things and mean them. I do think he is more aware he is on camera and being a professional speaks well to the camera but that doesn't make what he says not true. 

 

On another note about Tres/Vanessa  I am just like Tres in I hate people who walk away from a fight with a loved one. I am a yell it out, talk it out, scream it out kind of person but don't walk way. Stay and fight and figure it out. I also have issues with people who just don't say what the heck is wrong. So Vanessa drives me a bit batty but I am rooting for them.

 

Oh and Ashley, Ashley, Ashley...How did this show even let her through the process? She obviously shutdown immediately when not attracted to David (who mind you is not a toad, btw. He's average to even adorable at times). I just don't get what the point of her doing this show was for esp. if its true they don't get paid which I believe to be true. Not saying David is perfect but don't get Ashley at all. HOWEVER... I did see a photo David posted on twitter as part of throwback Thursday and it was a pic of he, Ashley and the MAFS crew (there was way more then I thought like 7 people) at the site they watched the fireworks on the 4th and they looked happy and way more relaxed. Her clothes and skin actually touched his and no Bella as a block, lol.

 

No spoilers just a speculation but I really think Neil and Sam stay together simply because I believe no matter who they paired Neil with he was going to say yes to trying. I truly believe because he comes from the background of arranged marriages he was going to go through with it. I could be totally wrong but that along with Sam realizing that maybe she likes being in control more then she protests I see them staying together.  Sadly.

 

Lastly I noticed this cast isn't as close as previous cast. The women from the last two seasons really bonded. I know Monet and Cortnee are really close friends and though the 2nd season is kind of never talked about (that's so f'd up on FYI part, lol)  and we're supposed to forget they exist the three women seem to be good friends.  This cast not so much. Though the three guys seem to have had night out recently and had a good time. I wonder if its because of the geography of Atlanta (never been) too far apart or maybe lack of promotion together? I did notice the first few seasons I saw the wives on shows together. All I've seen is articles with the participants this go around.

[Kareem]

I read somewhere that post-season, the three ladies from last time were very vocal with production regarding their feelings about the matches and are no longer welcome as part of MAFS gang. So we get Jamie. Too often.

[Snarklepuss]

Mr. P uses that expression all the time - I usually know who "his girl" is but he says "my boy" and I have to ask him to be more specific :)  And we are white.

 

Is it a regional Southern expression?  Or is it age-related, as in used mostly by younger people?  I'm wondering if it's similar to the word "bro", which has recently taken on a life of its own with the 30 and under set.  Now, I understand that word because I remember it being used when I was a teenager in the same way.  Then it faded for a long time and suddenly came back in style within the last decade.  But "my girl" I'm not familiar with.

[BBDi]

I was watching the episode with my 2 daughters last night and my oldest daughter (24) says she likes Sam and understands why Neil drives her crazy. (My other daughter and I rolled our eyes.)

She loves Vanessa and Tres, but my youngest daughter (21) says she can spot a player a mile away and he is one. My mind is not made up.

Love hearing their differing perspectives. All 3 of us made fun of Ashley and David. He just sounds so delusional when me talks about her.

[Pickles]

Not saying I like Ashley, but if she has no physical attraction toward David how is it ever going to work? I am picky about physical appearance too and just his sleeveless shirt at the party would have been a MAJOR turnoff for me. Call me superficial, but if there is no attraction just move on. It is not going to'work.

[Soup333]

Is it a regional Southern expression?  Or is it age-related, as in used mostly by younger people?  I'm wondering if it's similar to the word "bro", which has recently taken on a life of its own with the 30 and under set.  Now, I understand that word because I remember it being used when I was a teenager in the same way.  Then it faded for a long time and suddenly came back in style within the last decade.  But "my girl" I'm not familiar with.

 

Maybe it is more age-related. I am not Southern by birth and I know people from the Midwest (where I was born) use it. 

 

I loooove language-y things like this!

[seasick]

Is it a regional Southern expression?  Or is it age-related, as in used mostly by younger people?  I'm wondering if it's similar to the word "bro", which has recently taken on a life of its own with the 30 and under set.  Now, I understand that word because I remember it being used when I was a teenager in the same way.  Then it faded for a long time and suddenly came back in style within the last decade.  But "my girl" I'm not familiar with.

I think it's more age-related than regional.  I live in the northeast and started hearing this reference about 20 years ago.   It means (at least to me) a friend but also someone you are a little  'partial to'.   Like when Cortney advertises Black Love  with "my girl Monet".  

[okerry]

ITA, very well put!  I don't get people who are so insecure in their relationships that they feel threatened by their spouse's platonic friends, but it seems to be very common and Vanessa has a lot of company.  I don't know if I believe that a spouse should indulge their partner in that insecurity either, especially if it's misplaced.  I certainly think a spouse should respect their partner's jealous feelings, but even if it means telling them to drop a good friend?  How much is too much to ask from a spouse?  I have been in this situation more times than I can count.  I always had at least as many male platonic friends as female, and when I was young and they were single it was fine, but one by one they got married an inevitably dropped out of sight because of a jealous wife.  Now a few of them Facebook me every now and then but that's it.  I also had a more recent male friend who after 12 years of knowing him called me to announce that he was going to have to stop communicating with me altogether because he was getting married (I knew he was dating) and his wife to be was "the jealous type".  Never mind that he was now living on the West Coast while I'm in New England!   I told him, "What does she think we're going to do, have Skype sex?"  LOL  (P.S. - I have not heard from him going on 5 years now.  It sucks!)

There's one word missing from all these discussions of whether married folks can/should have platonic friends of the opposite sex: Respect.

 

Most people here seem to think that anything short of sexual contact ought to be okay between, say, a married man and his female friend. If they're talking on the phone or on FB, meeting up for lunch, she's calling him for help with a flat tire, etc. etc., that should all be okay as long as "nothing is going on."

 

But in all of these instances, this man is disrespecting his wife by allowing his female friend to come first. THAT is the problem with stuff like this. Maybe his wife would like to go to lunch with her husband - or, even worse, husband says, "Well, my wife's not available for lunch today anyway, so why not ask female friend? I mean, nothing's going on." And his wife is expected to eat this shit sandwich and smile, because otherwise she's insecure and controlling. And a bitch.

 

This kind of thing destroys relationships and destroys marriages, because too much time and energy gets drained off into other people while the spouses are expected to tolerate it because "nothing's going on." When the truth is, the spouses are sick and tired of being disrespected by their own husbands and wives by being shoved into second place for a "friend."

 

You can destroy your marriage with this even if you never actually do anything sexual with your "friend," and it seems amazingly stupid to me to throw away a relationship by putting a "friend" first over the needs and desires of the person you're married to. This is what people are objecting to. It's disrespectful, selfish, and cruel to act like this, and it never, ever gets better. It only gets worse and worse and worse as the boundaries are pushed to the limit.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: People who want to behave like this, who demand the right to put a "friend" first and their spouse second whenever they feel like it, Should Not Be Married. Period. And probably don't really want to be married anyway, because this is an excellent, excellent way to sabotage a marriage and still look like the good guy because everyone will give poor little you a pass since your wife is so unreasonable, insecure and complaining even though "nothing happened."

[allthelight]

I'm basically repeating Tres' words from his Twitter account: How is fair to ask from him to cool off an almost decade long friendship for a marriage with a stranger he's known for a month? A good friendship is not an easily disposable banana peel. 

[ClareWalks]

There's one word missing from all these discussions of whether married folks can/should have platonic friends of the opposite sex: Respect.

 

Most people here seem to think that anything short of sexual contact ought to be okay between, say, a married man and his female friend. If they're talking on the phone or on FB, meeting up for lunch, she's calling him for help with a flat tire, etc. etc., that should all be okay as long as "nothing is going on."

 

But in all of these instances, this man is disrespecting his wife by allowing his female friend to come first. THAT is the problem with stuff like this. Maybe his wife would like to go to lunch with her husband - or, even worse, husband says, "Well, my wife's not available for lunch today anyway, so why not ask female friend? I mean, nothing's going on." And his wife is expected to eat this shit sandwich and smile, because otherwise she's insecure and controlling. And a bitch.

 

This kind of thing destroys relationships and destroys marriages, because too much time and energy gets drained off into other people while the spouses are expected to tolerate it because "nothing's going on." When the truth is, the spouses are sick and tired of being disrespected by their own husbands and wives by being shoved into second place for a "friend."

 

You can destroy your marriage with this even if you never actually do anything sexual with your "friend," and it seems amazingly stupid to me to throw away a relationship by putting a "friend" first over the needs and desires of the person you're married to. This is what people are objecting to. It's disrespectful, selfish, and cruel to act like this, and it never, ever gets better. It only gets worse and worse and worse as the boundaries are pushed to the limit.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: People who want to behave like this, who demand the right to put a "friend" first and their spouse second whenever they feel like it, Should Not Be Married. Period. And probably don't really want to be married anyway, because this is an excellent, excellent way to sabotage a marriage and still look like the good guy because everyone will give poor little you a pass since your wife is so unreasonable, insecure and complaining even though "nothing happened."

 

I've seen a few of your posts that have gone over this same point and I don't understand how you can insist that simply talking/hanging out with an opposite sex friend is "putting the friend above the spouse." You're basically using the same argument that controlling spouses use - that having friends is a betrayal. That is attempting to isolate a partner from having friendships. Would you say that a woman should spend time with her spouse rather than spending time with FEMALE friends? Is that similarly "not putting the spouse first?" I just think your argument is a bit silly, especially to say that it's not okay to have lunch with someone else EVEN IF your spouse is unavailable for lunch. Now, if the spouse is threatened by the friend, then that's another story, but you seem to be saying that simply spending time with someone else is a betrayal of your spouse.

Edited February 6, 2016 by ClareWalks

[allthelight]

Agreed, ClareWalks.

 

Long friendships are meaningful relationships. Why would you get rid of your friends for a new spouse? It's not like Tres and Jenna are spending their time together 24/7 or that Jenna is shitting on Vanessa. 

[Evil Queen]

I feel like this needs to be addressed because I've read several comments saying it was inappropriate. Perhaps this is a cultural misunderstanding. When Tres says, "Jenna is my girl," it does not have to mean anything other than she is his friend. The terms "my girl" or "my dude" suggest a fondness for or an affinity for a person. It could be someone you don't even know. The teller I usually go to at the bank is "my girl", even though we don't know each other outside of that context. I have many friends, both male and female that I refer to this way. Strictly platonic relationships, all of them. 

 

Of course that phrase could also mean there is an ongoing romantic relationship, but if there was something going on between he and Jenna, I highly doubt he would admit to it on camera in that way. Without a doubt, Vanessa would know what that phrase meant if he actually said, "My girl Jenna is coming over." Of all things she could have been bothered by about him inviting her over, using "my girl" in that context is NOT one of them. It was an appropriate use of that term for someone who has been his friend for years.

 

First I will say I have heard this used over the many years where I am before and its used by different races. I know I heard it before back in the early 90s and even late 80s at times when I was in junior high and high school. I'm in California. I think when its used the meaning can go either way on it but its the tone of how it is said that can take on that meaning. In this situation with Tres its obvious that its his friend. 

[izabella]

All Tres did was invite his friend Jenna to a party in their home (as well as her boyfriend, who apparently couldn't make it).  He wanted to introduce his friends to Vanessa, just like David wanted to introduce his friends to Ashley.

 

I honestly do not see how that is putting Jenna first, or how that is disrespecting Vanessa.  He wasn't sneaking around, he wasn't going off on his own to have lunch or dinner or drinks with Jenna, he wasn't excluding Vanessa, he didn't go out with Jenna because Vanessa wasn't available, he didn't blow Vanessa off to go out with Jenna.  He invited a friend to a party at their house.  What is disrespectful about that?

[okerry]

I've seen a few of your posts that have gone over this same point and I don't understand how you can insist that simply talking/hanging out with an opposite sex friend is "putting the friend above the spouse." You're basically using the same argument that controlling spouses use - that having friends is a betrayal. That is attempting to isolate a partner from having friendships. Would you say that a woman should spend time with her spouse rather than spending time with FEMALE friends? Is that similarly "not putting the spouse first?"

If a choice has to be made? Go out with your husband or leave him at home to go out with female friends? To me, that requires zero thought: The husband comes first. Period. I've seen plenty of women make their husbands feel like second-rate crap by treating them like this and making it clear that the girls are more important than he is and he'll just have to get used to that.

 

Again, I don't understand why someone would get married if they're not willing to put their spouse first. That's just someone who wants to enjoy the benefits of being both single *and* married, and sees no reason why they shouldn't. The divorce courts are filled with people like this, but nobody's able to stop them from thinking they can get married yet still live exactly as they did when they were single.

[okerry]

Long friendships are meaningful relationships. Why would you get rid of your friends for a new spouse? It's not like Tres and Jenna are spending their time together 24/7 or that Jenna is shitting on Vanessa. 

It amazes me that this would even be a question, but it is. You don't have to "get rid of your friends for a new spouse," but you DO have to put your spouse first and not your friends. You could put friends first when you were single, but you can't when you are married - not if you want to stay that way.

 

But if this has to be argued to someone, They Should Not Be Married. There's a word for doing whatever you feel like doing whenever you want to do it. That word is "single." The people on this show aren't single. They agreed to go through a legal marriage, and did, but that hasn't dawned on most of them yet - especially Tres. He's very typical of folks who get married but see no reason to change one thing about their former lives. Sam is another.

[ClareWalks]

I am still failing to see how Tres was putting Jenna first by inviting her and her boyfriend (who couldn't go) to a big house party.

[okerry]

I am still failing to see how Tres was putting Jenna first by inviting her and her boyfriend (who couldn't go) to a big house party.

Because Tres was more worried about how Jenna felt than he was about how Vanessa felt. That's the whole problem in a nutshell.

[Jack Sampson]

Because Tres was more worried about how Jenna felt than he was about how Vanessa felt. That's the whole problem in a nutshell.

When did he say that?

And, what if Vanessa was REALLY worried, then he should get rid of Jenna? Tres actions, his long-term friendships, his entire life should be dictated by Vanessa's wild mood swings?

Letting a wife's feels control your every thought isn't a marriage. It's a controlling mess that you think sounds ideal for some reason.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Jack Sampson