Season 4 Discussion

[KarateKate]

Up to this episode, I was prepared to roll my eyes at how telegraphed and trite it was when Daryl pulls the "claimed!" card on [Rick, Michonne, Carl, whoever] to buy time and save them.

I already hated that moment.

So it doesn't make sense how deflated I feel that there was no payoff bigger than a strawberry to the "Claimed!" buildup.

[Snaporaz]

AMC ran the entire season over the weekend.  I never binge watch, but I did happen to see the first 10 minutes or so of the first episode, and there was Carol in the prison yard, grilling and handing plates of food to people.  It was a nice bookend to Mary in this episode. 

Then I started thinking about all of the food we've seen people eat this second half of the season:  a giant can of chocolate pudding, crazy cheese, pigs' feet and peanut butter, candy bars, pecans, rabbits.  Rick and Michonne said that food is all they ever talk about anymore. 

To me, the flashbacks with Herschel brought this episode together.  It reminded me of Carl resenting Rick for becoming a farmer, but Herschel knew food was one of the keys to survival and he was absolutely right to convince Rick to start farming.  But they also should never have let their guard down.  In many ways, the prison really was what Terminus falsely advertised itself to be.

And the brutal scene with Joe's gang really set it all up nicely.  Gareth and company seemed so milquetoast compared to them, but talk about monsters...This was a great ending to the season.

[Portia]

I'm still trying to figure out the significance of that bloody painting of a woman that was found a few episodes back by . . . was it Michonne? And someone else had found the same painting earlier in the season? That was Mary/Tasha Yar in the painting, correct? If so, that makes me think that she is the leader of the cult, but I can't for the life of me figure out why her portrait would be in some random house off the compound. Am I taking crazy pills? Someone help me out if you can, please.

I think it would be awesome if Li'l Useless (Beth) turned out to be brainwashed by the Termites. I'm certainly not anti-religion--I'm a person of faith myself--but she's just a flat-out simpleton. 

[peach]

I know a lot of people have said the very end felt anticlimactic, but it still got to me, because when Glenn's group saw Rick's group, there was absolutely NO expression on their faces of Thank God you're alive, or anything of the sort.  They looked only very, very sad that their friends had met the same fate.  So they must believe the situation is hopeless.

I realize they also have no idea which Rick actually stepped into that train car.  They don't know yet that Farmer Rick is dead.  Nebraska Rick, Honey Badger Rick, Let It Go Rick is here, gang.  Things are looking up.

[90PercentGravity]

I don't get why the Termites herded them into the same car as their friends. Rick was asking about the gear they got off of them, so they had to know they were all part of the same group.

[bravelittletoaster]

There's been some speculation about Beth's fate on this thread . . . I'm so used to the TWoP "spoilery discussion" thread, that it unnerves me slightly to see it here, but I guess I'll embrace the new!

Oh, I'm not spoiled, though, so whatever speculation I did about Beth's fate was just based on the fact that yes, TWD has finally acknowledged that this world is not safe for a cute little girl like Beth out there on her own.  If Beth's run into a similar gang of men, I'd kind of rather we never found out.  

Unspoiled spec was / always has been allowed at TWoP as far as I know.  I'm guessing similar policies here...

Edited March 31, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[peach]

I think it would be awesome if Li'l Useless (Beth) turned out to be brainwashed by the Termites. I'm certainly not anti-religion--I'm a person of faith myself--but she's just a flat-out simpleton. 

I don't think it's a cult, myself, just a group that's decided to go this gruesome route to survive...but I'm with you that Beth might be down with it.  She's sweet and all, but at the same time, she's kind of a wild card.  She wanted to kill herself as soon as they had to accept that walkers were...walkers, and she asked Maggie to do it too, like they were talking about getting a pedicure or something.  She shut down any feelings about boyfriend deaths.  It was her idea to burn down a house with moonshine just to say "f*** it."  I think she might go along with Terminus, why not?  I can see her shrugging her shoulders, and saying, it's just meat.

[MissScarlett]

I'm of two minds where this is concerned. I agree that Rick could have learned more/planned a better move if he'd waited, but considering what they'd just been through hours before with the Merle 2.0 gang, Rick was up to 'here' with people coming at him unawares. I think he felt like if he didn't make a move quick that someone could take out Carl, Michonne or Daryl before he could react. Also, the last time Rick tried to reason with crazy, it ended in Herschel getting his head hacked off and chaos ensuing. So yeah, I think his reaction was realistic if too hasty.

I loved this episode so much. I know a lot of people aren't happy with how it ended, but I think it was fitting. The night scene was intense and dark and enough for one episode, and now we have a good set up for season 5 with enough questions and uncertainty to tune back in. The line Rick uses at the end is from the comics, so if it sounded a little hokey, you have to put it into a comic context. I don't think Rick was being unrealistic with that line either. Sure, they're trapped in a train car without weapons at the moment, but they haven't killed them yet. And if there's anything this show has proven thus far is that while any of these characters are still breathing, they are extremely lethal. 

I think that Tasha Yar is the leader. She likely plays the role of the generous cook to get a sense of who's just entered Terminus and then dispatches her soldiers accordingly. I'm thinking it may be Beth steaks on that barbie as well. I also agree that it will be Tyreese and Carol who end up rescuing them with the Hammer of Justice.

See, that's my take on Rick too.  I think he has begun to realize that there's a line to walk between pacifist and evil warlord.  If you think about it, he's been kind of a pacifist all along for the most part.  You can't be a pacifist in the ZA.  It sounds nice and looks good on paper, but doesn't hold up.

Ass-kicking Rick is going to be so fun to watch!

I have to say, I was scared for a second that Daryl was going to end up regressing into the person he was before the ZA because of Joe and the Merletones.  So glad they got taken out!  I cheered out loud when Rick took out the child-raping Merletone.

Did Carl really refer to himself as a monster?  I might have to re-watch that part again, I didn't quite catch his reasoning for not wanting to go with his dad.

I might be in the minority, but i'm so glad that "as far as we know", none of the main characters died during this season finale.  Sometimes with this show I find I need to catch my breath a little.

[Portia]

. . . I'm with you that Beth might be down with it.  She's sweet and all, but at the same time, she's kind of a wild card.  She wanted to kill herself as soon as they had to accept that walkers were...walkers, and she asked Maggie to do it too, like they were talking about getting a pedicure or something.  She shut down any feelings about boyfriend deaths.  It was her idea to burn down a house with moonshine just to say "f*** it."  I think she might go along with Terminus, why not?  I can see her shrugging her shoulders, and saying, it's just meat.

Love it, peach.

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Omar's post on the episode!

[Raspberry2012]

See, that's my take on Rick too.  I think he has begun to realize that there's a line to walk between pacifist and evil warlord.  If you think about it, he's been kind of a pacifist all along for the most part.  You can't be a pacifist in the ZA.  It sounds nice and looks good on paper, but doesn't hold up.

Ass-kicking Rick is going to be so fun to watch!

I think so, too. I think in the normal world, Rick was just a sweet, peaceful guy.  But he's figuring out now, in bits and pieces, that it's just not going to shake down that way in a ZA.  If you can hang onto your humanity in a certain situation, then great.  But if the moment calls for you to chomp down on the other guy's neck or gut him from belly to chin, then by all means.  They have the walkers to deal with, yes.  But they're finding out that the survivors are far more brutal than the zombies.  They've been in "kill or be killed" situations enough now that Rick is seeing how their new life is going to unfold, and there isn't much he can do about it.  The last time he tried to rationally reason with someone, Hershel was murdered in response.  Rick's now doing what he has to do.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Raspberry2012

[NorthstarATL]

 

I know a lot of people have said the very end felt anticlimactic, but it still got to me, because when Glenn's group saw Rick's group, there was absolutely NO expression on their faces of Thank God you're alive, or anything of the sort.  They looked only very, very sad that their friends had met the same fate.  So they must believe the situation is hopeless.

The more I think of it, though, why didn't they rush whoever was entering? I couldn't quite make out the layout of the car, but Glenn's group DID seem to be hanging back, which worked for the purposes of the script, but seems very unrealistic. Once that door opens you have your best (and maybe only) chance of seeing daylight again, and you need to do whatever you can to get there.

[peach]

I assumed they could hear what was going on out there.  LOTS of gunfire, for one thing, and Rick's voice.  Possibly even Gareth shouting for "the ringleader, the archer, the samurai, and the boy" to line up.  The ZA is a small world, who else could that description be?  lol   Rick was shouting about his son right outside that container, so (IMO) they had to know it was him.

[FatalSnarkAttack]

AMC ran the entire season over the weekend.  I never binge watch, but I did happen to see the first 10 minutes or so of the first episode, and there was Carol in the prison yard, grilling and handing plates of food to people.  It was a nice bookend to Mary in this episode. 

Then I started thinking about all of the food we've seen people eat this second half of the season:  a giant can of chocolate pudding, crazy cheese, pigs' feet and peanut butter, candy bars, pecans, rabbits.  Rick and Michonne said that food is all they ever talk about anymore. 

Also recognize it was food that led to the plague inside the prison, with the possibly virus-causing venison and sick pigs which caused Lego-playing Harry Potter lookalike to die and then reanimate and chomp Mika and Lizzie's dad, amongst others.   Carol's food plate is potentially as lethal as Mary's, maybe?

[DaddyOfPayton]

Quite the title.

A was on the side of the boxcar. I literally felt a chill when I saw it, and realized the significance

[lkhllywd]

I'm still trying to figure out the significance of that bloody painting of a woman that was found a few episodes back by . . . was it Michonne? And someone else had found the same painting earlier in the season? That was Mary/Tasha Yar in the painting, correct? If so, that makes me think that she is the leader of the cult, but I can't for the life of me figure out why her portrait would be in some random house off the compound. Am I taking crazy pills? Someone help me out if you can, please.

I believe that painting was Lizzie. It was just a creepy thing planted by the show powers that be, nothing that really fit into the plot.

As for the Termites, perhaps, having seen how walkers consume human flesh and have a certain invincibility, they're looking to acquire the same thing.

[peach]

Here's a quote by Robert Kirkman about the nature of Terminus:  "Woodbury was much more of a return to civilization. It was a safe place. It had a leader who had a lot of secrets, but, on the surface, it was a place where families could live and people could survive. Terminus is not that. It’s a completely alien environment with very strange people that live in a very specific and strange way that is in no way any kind of remnant of what we knew before. They’re actually a lot more dangerous and a little bit scarier when it all comes to light."

Also, I need to rewatch it, because what in the heck were they doing in that room when Rick & Co came in through the back?  They were all at desks like they were researching or something.

Edited April 1, 2014 by peach

[picklesprite]

I really liked this episode, even though I made of point of being spoiled beforehand. (I want to know if the ending makes it worth sludging through the gore.) Rick, finally!!!, becomes a real leader. Daryl, what a sweetie pie. Okay, with arrows. Michone, the coolest of all. I am satisfied, and looking forward to next season. I was so glad to see Hershel again. I miss him. Thanks, show. Don't bring back anybody else, though. I hope Beth is happy wherever she is, and stays there.

Edited April 1, 2014 by picklesprite

[NorthstarATL]

 

I assumed they could hear what was going on out there.  LOTS of gunfire, for one thing, and Rick's voice.  Possibly even Gareth shouting for "the ringleader, the archer, the samurai, and the boy" to line up.  The ZA is a small world, who else could that description be?  lol   Rick was shouting about his son right outside that container, so (IMO) they had to know it was him.

 I'll go along wth that, and had almost forgotten that the earlier group had seemingly eaten,  and might be slightly drugged and unable to surge. I was basing this upon having been in a train car, and the acoustics not being such where you'd know what was happening outside, and that might not hold true here.

[KarateKate]

 Also, I need to rewatch it, because what in the heck were they doing in that room when Rick & Co came in through the back?  They were all at desks like they were researching or something.

Peach, they looked to me like they were making more map/recruiting posters. It looked like printing equipment, and went with the purpose of the woman on the radio, too. 

[peach]

Well, to be fair, they generally can't even seem to hear people walking through the woods, which in my experience, is usually loud.  So, they might not be able to hear from inside a train car.  But consistency isn't a strong suit of this show.  lol

 

Peach, they looked to me like they were making more map/recruiting posters. It looked like printing equipment, and went with the purpose of the woman on the radio, too. 

So, they're all freelance graphic designers.   Makes sense.  Beth is probably hanging out with the singer-songwriters.

[Cheetosandchoc]

Sometimes Carl gets a squinty look and he reminds me of Damien. So calling himself a monster sorta fits.

When Michone was opening up to Carl I was so worried a bullet would come out of nowhere and kill her dead. An odd unfounded premonition. Since I have been pretty much wrong this whole time I am guessing Beth was taken by someone unrelated to Terminous though he might be aware of it and she will be part of a group that saves all the others. That or Carol will come in riding an elephant escaped from a zoo like Hannibal and take down the Terminous.

My five year old son apparently watched this with his dad while I was away and he seems to have a crush on Michonne. Whom he calls his faveorite fighter.

I seem to really suck at spelling and can't seem to get anything right.

[RabbitEars]

Who seeks sanctuary in a place called Terminus? With a name like Terminus, it has to be good...

I had given up on this show, but I'm back in... like a rabbit in a trap.

[peach]

 That or Carol will come in riding an elephant escaped from a zoo like Hannibal and take down the Terminous.

 

Crap, I would pay money to see that.

 

Edited April 1, 2014 by peach

[Rapunzel]

I did enjoy the episode, especially Rick's transformation back to badass, though wish we could have gotten a little more on Terminus and what it is really all about/how it started. I  just really hope this is not Woodbury 2.0 and that the gang either breaks out and leaves Terminus behind or offs the leadership and takes Terminus over within the first few episodes next season so we have an idea where the season is heading. The idea that they will be trapped in a boxcar/held captive  indefinitely just isn't interesting.

Do we think that Beth is already at Terminus?

I know I shouldn't say this, but I hope that Beth is already on the grill at Terminus. The actress is just awful and I so do not want to see a romance between her and Daryl. 

[Turtle]

 

Did Carl really refer to himself as a monster?  I might have to re-watch that part again, I didn't quite catch his reasoning for not wanting to go with his dad.

My take on that was that Carl didn't want his dad to know who *Carl* really is, and that Carl really wasn't all that bothered by what his dad did.  When they got to Terminus and that guy asked if the "other guy" deserved it, Carl answered quickly and unequivocally "Yes."  Carl has always been better than his dad at not getting caught up in any sense of morality or duty, I think.  He knew that Rick was going to be concerned about what Carl had seen Rick do, but Carl wasn't really bothered by it.  To me, Carl was really scared during the attack, understandably so, but his sense of trauma had nothing to do with what Rick had done.  And Carl doesn't want Rick to know that.

I haven't re-watched yet, but wasn't "A" also painted on some of the doors they ran through while being herded by the snipers?  

 

I know I shouldn't say this, but I hope that Beth is already on the grill at Terminus. The actress is just awful and I so do not want to see a romance between her and Daryl.

Yes.  A thousand times, yes.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Turtle

[Wilowy]

 

I haven't re-watched yet, but wasn't "A" also painted on some of the doors they ran through while being herded by the snipers?

Yes, it was. Here's Omar's recap that makes everything much clearer and way more funny.

[lawless]

That or Carol will come in riding an elephant escaped from a zoo like Hannibal and take down the Terminous.

 

YESSS.  Actually, I think Chris Jericho would be down with this too.

[Milaxx]

Thanks, turtle and maculae.  I guess back then, that early in the Zombie apocalypse, there was still stuff for Mike and Terry to get high on.  I'm satisfied with your explanation of what happened to Andre but I guess I would have wanted Michonne to say more, as that incident seems to be her defining moment (one of them) in the ZA...but maybe the whole story was that they (Mike and Terry) had already given up by that point, and she hadn't.

 Sure there was. Didn't Daryl and Merle have some blue meth at the beginning of Season 1?

 

 

In addition too personal stashes like Merle's there is no reason to think people couldn't still grow marijuana. I think it was implied in Michonne's flashback/dream that Mike & Terry had started to give up and question the point of trying to survive. Whether Andre was simply killed or bit and he turned, Michonne still blamed herself for not being there when it happened.

I'm still trying to figure out the significance of that bloody painting of a woman that was found a few episodes back by . . . was it Michonne? And someone else had found the same painting earlier in the season? That was Mary/Tasha Yar in the painting, correct? If so, that makes me think that she is the leader of the cult, but I can't for the life of me figure out why her portrait would be in some random house off the compound. Am I taking crazy pills? Someone help me out if you can, please.

 

I think that painting is Mary and not Lizzie. I also can't help but think there's something cult like going on and the people is the house were around for the beginning stages of whatever it is and when they realized what was happening check out. I know the Grove aired, many thought it was Lizzie as a sort of inside thing like the puzzle being Sophia. The difference is, we the viewers never saw the completed puzzle, it was more of a motivation for the actors in the scene. We get a clear view of the painting in the house which makes me believe it was a warning both to those who might go to Terminus and us the viewing public.

See, that's my take on Rick too.  I think he has begun to realize that there's a line to walk between pacifist and evil warlord.  If you think about it, he's been kind of a pacifist all along for the most part.  You can't be a pacifist in the ZA.  It sounds nice and looks good on paper, but doesn't hold up.

This was one of my quibbles with the flashbacks in this episode. What we saw was nice and idyllic, however when the season opened not only was Rick a farmer, but he was literally putting on blinders to anything other than farming. Herschel was trying to get him involved in the council and decision making and he didn't seem to want any parts of it. So what made him completely check out? I always liked when Carol told him, "You can be a farmer, but you can't just be a farmer." It feels like we missed that transition. In fact when they showed the reviews of Rick after he had did in Joe's gang, I was worried we were going to see another Rick shutdown. The fact that he seemed to rally makes me hopeful that he realizes the he has to be a little of both in order to survive.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Milaxx

[Portia]

I think that painting is Mary and not Lizzie. I also can't help but think there's something cult like going on and the people is the house were around for the beginning stages of whatever it is and when they realized what was happening check out. I know the Grove aired, many thought it was Lizzie as a sort of inside thing like the puzzle being Sophia. The difference is, we the viewers never saw the completed puzzle, it was more of a motivation for the actors in the scene. We get a clear view of the painting in the house which makes me believe it was a warning both to those who might go to Terminus and us the viewing public.

I'm with you, Milaxx. Glad I'm not alone.

[Uncle Benzene]

My take on that was that Carl didn't want his dad to know who *Carl* really is, and that Carl really wasn't all that bothered by what his dad did.  When they got to Terminus and that guy asked if the "other guy" deserved it, Carl answered quickly and unequivocally "Yes."  Carl has always been better than his dad at not getting caught up in any sense of morality or duty, I think.  He knew that Rick was going to be concerned about what Carl had seen Rick do, but Carl wasn't really bothered by it.  To me, Carl was really scared during the attack, understandably so, but his sense of trauma had nothing to do with what Rick had done.  And Carl doesn't want Rick to know that.

Agreed. I've always been fascinated by Rick and Carl's relationship. They seem to be perpetually in different places mentally/emotionally, there's this everpresent wall between them, and no matter how hard they try to chip away at it, it never really comes down. They have their moments every now and then, a good example from this episode would be the farming bits in the flashbacks. But just as they're "getting there" the Gov comes along and screws that all up.

I've always thought that, at the root of it, is that Carl "has a whole lot of Shane in him." I think Carl's brain just works a lot more like Shane's than Rick's.

And of course there's the typical dad/son stuff, zombie apocalypse or no. Rick (quite rightly) considers it his fatherly duty to, as best he can, allow Carl to have something resembling a childhood. To "keep him innocent" and whatnot. Herschel reminded Rick of that in the flashbacks, and Rick heeded the advice. But, initially anyway, Carl was having none of it. Screw Legos, what do you mean put down the gun, etc. Kids usually tend to want to "grow up" a hell of a lot faster than their parents want them to anyway, and the "realities" of the ZA only exacerbate that, especially for Carl specifically. Add in Shane's influence, his encouragement/mentoring re: Carl's "manning up" which is like crack to a little boy, etc.

And presently, we've got Rick thinking he's failing Carl, and that Carl's disappointed in (or even disgusted by) him after all the savagery he just experienced. Meanwhile Carl's thinking he's failing Rick by not being that innocent little boy Rick wants him to be.

They clearly love each other, and nobody's "at fault" really. But as hard as they both try, that disconnect between them just won't go away (at least not completely, and not for long.) They just can't ever seem to get themselves on the same page.

[Constantinople]

As for the Termites, perhaps, having seen how walkers consume human flesh and have a certain invincibility, they're looking to acquire the same thing.

But termites don't eat humans, or not the entire human body.  They just eat wood.

[Cheetosandchoc]

Was Eugene in the train car? In the recap photos I don't see him.

[bravelittletoaster]

Yeah, he was there.

[Potanical Pardon]

I kind of think why he said gone just gone was b/c he knows in his gut whatever happened to her isn't good so the Beth they knew would be no more no matter WHAT happened to her. I took it as Beth was gone no matter if they encounter her again or not she'll never be the same now.

I get the feeling that the Hipsterminites are responsible for her disappearance and for some reason see her as a fit for whatever criteria is required to be one of them. Superficially, she looks like she could be one of them. In a different way, this could be the Andrea arc all over again with Beth torn between the two sides, hopefully minus the poor decision-making.

[JustAlison]

I think the Termites have Beth. She likely joined as what else can she do, akin to Daryl and the Claimers. I think that safe house she and Daryl ate at was one of their human traps, and that embalming? It's got to be tied in somehow... I think the Termites keep young, healthy folk to procreate somewhere, and apparently bbq any people who aren't young.  I suspect Beth is off somewhere, preggers or about to be. That leaves Carol and Tyreese, with their newfound, albeit strained, friendship now based on honesty and shared trauma, to come in and save the day! One of my favourite scenes from last season was when the gang was on a run, and  Tyreese got left behind at the car, surrounded by walkers. Pan ahead and there he comes-bursting through the foilage like some zombie warrior! I want to see more of THAT Tyreese! Add to that Carol, in her new badass pants, and possessing a strength Tyreese doesn't have (He couldn't kill Lizzie), and they are one hell of a team. Carol and Tyreese will be a force to be reckoned with next season, alongside Rick. Of course, I am mostly hopeful we get a lot of Carol next season. 

I wonder, now that Rick has seen fit to rip a guy's neck out with his teeth, if he will be a little less appalled by what Carol did to Karvid? I mean, really, he banished her due to his horror at her brutality, questioned her humanity, and didn't think she was safe to be around his kids, right? This from the guy who just gutted a guy in front of that kid? I hate sloppy writing, and so I am forever trying to make sense of that whole storyline. I probably should just let it go.

[peach]

Oh, I think the new Honey Badger Rick will be completely forgiving of Carol.  He might have been inclined to feel that way anyway after the fall of the prison.  And when he finds out that her same willingness to take care of business saved Judith's life, I think they will all be on the same page.

[catrox14]

 

wonder, now that Rick has seen fit to rip a guy's neck out with his teeth, if he will be a little less appalled by what Carol did to Karvid? I mean, really, he banished her due to his horror at her brutality, questioned her humanity, and didn't think she was safe to be around his kids, right? This from the guy who just gutted a guy in front of that kid? I hate sloppy writing, and so I am forever trying to make sense of that whole storyline. I probably should just let it go.

I don't think those are equivalent situations though.  Team Richonne and Daryl were actively being attacked and had to defend themselves in order to stop an in-progress sexual assault and an in-progress attempted murder. The only thing David and Karen were guilty of was being sick just like Glenn and the others. Unfortunately, Carol made an assumption that David and Karen would not recover from the illness before all the evidence was available to her.  The evidence that Joe's gang was going to rape Carl and Michonne and murder them along with Daryl and Rick was clear and was already in progress and it was kill or be killed right then and there.  Karen and David still could have recovered and been no threat to the group but they weren't given that chance. 

ETA: I also don't think Rick made the decision to banish Carol lightly.  I think he felt a lot of sadness but thought it needed to be done.  He was also worried that Tyreese was going to kill Carol.  I do think he'll appreciate that Carol and Tyreese took care of Judith and he might regret banishing Carol since Tyreese forgave her, but I don't think Rick should regret his decision to banish Carol based on the evidence he had at the time and her confession.  

Edited April 1, 2014 by catrox14

[bravelittletoaster]

I know we know very little about the Terminus people, but it doesn't seem to me based on what little info we have that going out and kidnapping people is their M.O.  Their whole set up is much more spider/fly where they draw people in to them.  I'm not ruling out Beth ending up at Terminus anyways.  It's possible whoever took her will end up there themselves, but Terminus's rather elaborate "come to us" trap doesn't seem to gel with her disappearance.

[Cattitude]

I know we know very little about the Terminus people, but it doesn't seem to me based on what little info we have that going out and kidnapping people is their M.O.  Their whole set up is much more spider/fly where they draw people in to them.  I'm not ruling out Beth ending up at Terminus anyways.  It's possible whoever took her will end up there themselves, but Terminus's rather elaborate "come to us" trap doesn't seem to gel with her disappearance.

But you do have to expect some of the Termites will die as the one Rick killed and walker bites so they have to have some way to strengthen their own numbers. I do think the funeral home trap was also an elaborate trap with food and warmth right up Terminus's alley just like the train yard. They surely have one way to obtain new members that is different than the way they trap food. I won't be surpised if the Termites took Beth in as a new member and wanted to save Daryl for beefcakes... I mean steaks, b/c why did the kidnappers not kill Daryl especially when he chased them?

[bravelittletoaster]

I know a lot of people dislike Beth, but she's never really bothered me, and the fact that the two most bandied about options for her right now are either a: rape/breeding stock or b: dinner makes me sad for her.  Maybe I'll tell myself she's pulled a Buffy until I find out otherwise.

[Lyndy]

From your lips, bravelittletoaster. I'm pulling for Beth. I didn't have any real opinion of her before her little journey with Daryl since she didn't factor too much into the story before now. I liked the dynamic between Beth and Daryl because it was strange and awkward. I'd like to see her kick some ass. 

[KirkB]

 

This was one of my quibbles with the flashbacks in this episode. What we saw was nice and idyllic, however when the season opened not only was Rick a farmer, but he was literally putting on blinders to anything other than farming. Herschel was trying to get him involved in the council and decision making and he didn't seem to want any parts of it. So what made him completely check out? I always liked when Carol told him, "You can be a farmer, but you can't just be a farmer." It feels like we missed that transition. In fact when they showed the reviews of Rick after he had did in Joe's gang, I was worried we were going to see another Rick shutdown. The fact that he seemed to rally makes me hopeful that he realizes the he has to be a little of both in order to survive.

   This is a good point. Rick at the start of the season was checked out from the rest of the world, he was focused on his farming to the excluscion of almost everything else that was going on. Now, at the end of the season, we find out it was Hershel who put him on that path in the first place. Yet if you back to the early episodes it was also Hershel trying to cajole Rick out of farmer mode and back to being a leader. So he wanted Rick to learn farming and put the needs of the many before his desire to do everything himself, then when he got that turned around and tried to make him go back? I'm confused. Hershel got what he wanted, so why was he trying to change Rick back? Now the real answer, of course, is that they probably hadn't come up with the idea that it was Hershel's influence back when they were filming the early episodes.

[JackONeill]

I wonder if everyone at Terminus (putting our group aside) knows what's going on?  I mean, maybe some people, those who are new and not as attentive as someone like Rick, may just think they've stumbled into a sanctuary that's catered by a BBQ restuarant.  After all, it seems like a lot of people in Woodbury were conveniently blind.

[Kristen]

I second the idea that the funeral home was a Terminus set up. It just seemed too convenient that the horde of walkers showed up like that.

[JackONeill]

Another thought:

I don't think the Terminus folk are pure evil.  (They may be idiots.  And they've certainly pissed off Rick.)  I think they'll have an explantaion.  Maybe the ones who wind up on the plate have "volunteered."  Maybe there's a lottery.  (I'm not SAYING any of this is right.  But I bet there'll be an explanation.  This is an apocalypse, after all.  You have to do what you have to do.  Again: Not saying it's right.)

I think people stay there in safety at a price, but they know the price.  The interesting thing is will they offer to let our people go?  Maybe so, but maybe one of our team that wasn't seen in the episode got to Terminus a little too early and wound up with the short end of the stick.  And now they're marinating.  Rick won't take too kindly to that, no matter the explanation.

Edited April 1, 2014 by JackONeill

[peach]

From your lips, bravelittletoaster. I'm pulling for Beth. I didn't have any real opinion of her before her little journey with Daryl since she didn't factor too much into the story before now. I liked the dynamic between Beth and Daryl because it was strange and awkward. I'd like to see her kick some ass. 

Well, it would be an enjoyable twist (to me, at any rate), if it were Beth coming to rescue Daryl, guns ablazin', after wondering how or when Daryl could find and rescue Beth.  And weak little sister rescuing big, strong sister.  That would be fun.

[Snaporaz]

Terminus appears to be walker-free.  We didn't even see walkers anywhere around it, yet walkers were almost constantly at the fences surrounding the prison.  I wonder if the smell of all that death is what keeps them at bay, much like the way Michonne's "pets" made her invisible.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Snaporaz

[SimoneS]

Another thought:

I don't think the Terminus folk are pure evil.  (They may be idiots.  And they've certainly pissed off Rick.)  I think they'll have an explantaion.  Maybe the ones who wind up on the plate have "volunteered."  Maybe there's a lottery.  (I'm not SAYING any of this is right.  But I bet there'll be an explanation.  This is an apocalypse, after all.  You have to do what you have to do.  Again: Not saying it's right.)

I think people stay there in safety at a price, but they know the price.  The interesting thing is will they offer to let our people go?  Maybe so, but maybe one of our team that wasn't seen in the episode got to Terminus a little too early and wound up with the short end of the stick.  And now they're marinating.  Rick won't take too kindly to that, no matter the explanation.

The explanation is that they trap people, kill, and eat them. The people crying for help in the other freight carriers when Rick and the others were running certainly did not volunteer to be locked up like cattle any more than Rick's group did.

Edited April 1, 2014 by SimoneS

[kikismom]

 

Terminus appears to be walker-free. We didn't even see walkers anywhere around it.

Yeah, weird. No walkers, but a seemingly endless supply of plant mulch, finger paints, and mohair for sweaters. Go figure.