S02.E04: Episode 4

[formerlyfreedom]

Following the revelation that evidence was found on Taylor’s clothing, the parents of the basketball players and faculty of The Leyland School prepare for invasive DNA testing on the team. The impending test forces Eric to make a painful revelation, while at the same time, Taylor attempts to return to normalcy as he matriculates back into a local public high school.

 

[Primetimer]

And other almost-burning questions sparked by the latest episode.

Read the story

[possibilities]

I'm glad they're showing how the access to a lawyer is impossible for many people, and that it basically means no defense.

[numbnut]

OK, now I'm getting the feeling that Leslie was raped when she was younger, like she's going out of her way to blame the victim because she blames herself. That could also explain why she's not committing to her boyfriend. Why was that kid giving Taylor the evil eye in class? I could have done without the spoken word segment -- it was way too preachy and obvious. And when did beatnik poetry snapping come back into vogue?

Edited January 28, 2016 by numbnut

[HunterHunted]

I'm glad they're showing how the access to a lawyer is impossible for many people, and that it basically means no defense.

So true.

I'm a little annoyed with Anne's reaction to the texts and emails. I wish that it had been about whether Taylor had sex with before the drugs and alcohol. And whether Taylor was ashamed of what he did assuming it was consensual. But if anything happened after he was drugged, then it is still rape. If Anne had been depicted reacting that, I would have been a lot happier with this episode. Also are people forgetting that Taylor might be bisexual.

The spoken word clunky, heavy handed, and on the nose.

[bref]

You know what else was really clunky to me tonight? Evy's dialogue, in particular, but the young people's in general. The slang that was written for them didn't sound at all genuine coming out of their mouths. Something I hadn't noticed before.

 

Still pretty riveted. I want to know what happens next.

[albaniantv]

Was on the edge of my seat, ok couch, for the whole episode. Tried Billions, Colony,Lucifer and this for new drama in January - this is by far the best and the only one I am sticking with. There is some rough and raw camera work and writing, but I like the heady mix of students, teachers, parents and administrators. Just hoping that the two school set up won't end up some pale imitation of the ongoing school rivalry on Friday Night Lights. 

[Rowan]

I can't believe how much better this season is than last. It's just so much more compelling. I didn't even make it all the way through the last season, but I actually find myself riveted during this one.

It's just so messy. The situation is such a trainwreck.

[tennisgurl]

The actors are really just killing it every episode. The whole sequence with Eric trying to kill himself was just so intense. Could not look away. 

 

So it looks like its going to become a consent issue. I still think Taylor was raped, even if he was planning on having sex with Eric, but I think its possible that Eric honestly does not think it was a rape. He might legitimately think that because he and Taylor planned to have sex, that all sex after that was consensual. Or maybe not. I have no idea. Its compelling to watch, even if its not always very pleasant viewing. 

 

That being said, this show aint exactly going for subtle. The spoken word poetry might as well have had "THIS IS THE MESSAGE" blinking in the bottom of the screen. 

[possibilities]

I've seen spoken word performances which were exactly that heavy handed and the snapping is 100% accurate to how they work. That's just the style these days, no kidding. It's a bit much for me, too, but I don't blame the TV show, because they really didn't exaggerate. And if you think about it, it's not like the topic was what the guy had for breakfast. It's not really unfair to be intense talking about being raped and having the seriousness of it minimized. In a way, it's one of the topics that actually deserves a certain amount of earnestness and intensity.

 

It seems to me that Taylor was drugged. If he was there to have sex with Eric, maybe he drank a little, or got a little high, but I just don't think he would be getting so wasted he couldn't experience it. And those photos show him clearly way out of it. It's hard to think Eric could be that much of a dumbass to think, if Taylor was in that condition, that their plans could go forward. Maybe they had sex before Taylor was drugged. Maybe Eric really didn't have anything to do with the crime aspect. We don't know.

 

Who drugged Taylor, and whether Eric is the rapist (because he doesn't understand consent) or whether someone ELSE raped Taylor (independent of anything that Eric and Taylor did together), we just don't know. It's starting to remind me of Veronica Mars at the moment, and I don't like it. I don't want this to all be a big misunderstanding. And I don't want it to just be about two guys afraid to be outed. Those photos show pretty clearly that Taylor was in the condition you'd call an ambulance for, not just a guy who overdid it and is going to have a hangover, but a guy who you could seriously think might be dead by morning.

 

The saddest part to me is that if Eric and Taylor really did have a consensual relationship before this, neither of them has shown the slightest inclination to connect with the other since. That's one of the things that makes me wonder if Eric is lying, and he really did rape Taylor and knows it.

 

I'm also 100% with the thoughts expressed here: http://previously.tv/american-crime-story/must-american-crime-make-us-play-spot-the-gay-kid-with-these-teenage-boys/. Don't make me regret I started watching, Show! This episode is really making me question my previous enthusiasm.

Edited January 28, 2016 by possibilities

[omgsowicked]

I just read on Twitter (here and here) that the slam poetry guy is a real rape survivor and wrote that piece for the show. I definitely got the vibe that it was coming from a real place... a lot of the time, I find slam poetry (as I see it in entertainment, anyway) to be cheesy and faux deep but I thought this was very powerful. If we had tons of material covering this already, then I might not be as impressed, but considering how rare it is to hear about this, to really get into the nitty gritty of it... I liked it a lot.

 

The coach is setting off alarm bells every time I see him. He's way too interested in these boys, and his interactions with his daughter are so weirdly intense. I guess that's just how he is, since she's constantly brushing him off but... I don't know. I don't necessarily think he had something to do with the incident (wouldn't the guys have mentioned it, especially when he was yelling at them?) but he makes me suspicious. Maybe it'll come up that he made innocuous statements that made the guys think they needed to go all out at that party or something.

 

I was confused with the headmaster's conversation with her boyfriend... what happened with his daughter? Was it mentioned in the first episode because I missed it (tuned in late).

 

Was caught by surprise with the N-bomb. I remember hearing it in a movie that aired on Disney Channel in the early 2000s (The Color of Friendship), so it's not a new thing. Just makes me wonder how they decide what to censor... is it that anything's allowed and networks just keep it classy on their own (for advertisers and the like)? Or do they get fined?

[starri]

I really, REALLY tried to give Leslie the benefit of the doubt, and perhaps we'll see that she's a human and not a reptilian zipped inside a skin suit eventually, but I honestly think her scene with the school's board of directors made her irredeemable awful.  Possibly even worse than Terri, since Terri's primary motivation is to protect her son.

[numbnut]

I'm confused. If Taylor and Eric are trying to stay closeted (and Eric fears getting kicked off the team), why would they plan to hook up at a party thrown by a bunch of jocks and attended by everyone in school?

 

I've seen spoken word performances which were exactly that heavy handed and the snapping is 100% accurate to how they work. That's just the style these days, no kidding. It's a bit much for me, too, but I don't blame the TV show, because they really didn't exaggerate. And if you think about it, it's not like the topic was what the guy had for breakfast. It's not really unfair to be intense talking about being raped and having the seriousness of it minimized. In a way, it's one of the topics that actually deserves a certain amount of earnestness and intensity.

 

I don't doubt the authenticity of the poetry slam but I prefer subtext over hamfisted speechifying. The show doesn't need a heavy-handed preachy scene that screams "This is the message!" The topic and points of contention of the premise have already been clarified quite effectively with nuanced writing. Network shows tend to spoonfeed the narrative but I was hoping this show could rise above.

[WearyTraveler]

Great episode!

 

The presence of blood and Taylor's condition in those pictures make me think that at some point he changed his mind and in fact withdrew consent, as much as he was capable in his state.  Leslie was despicable, I agree, but I think all her previous interactions have been leading up to this.  She's always looking out for how things look from a PR perspective.  She's never been really interested in the welfare of the children who attend the school; her priority is the school itself and its reputation.

 

The coach strikes me as an idealist, perhaps even naïve guy.  He wants to believe his players do no wrong but he's definitely out of touch with what the kids do.  I think he's looking at the team through rose colored glasses.

 

Top notch acting all around.

[Brooklynista]

I'm confused. If Taylor and Eric are trying to stay closeted (and Eric fears getting kicked off the team), why would they plan to hook up at a party thrown by a bunch of jocks and attended by everyone in school?

 

 

I don't doubt the authenticity of the poetry slam but I prefer subtext over hamfisted speechifying. The show doesn't need a heavy-handed preachy scene that screams "This is the message!" The topic and points of contention of the premise have already been clarified quite effectively with nuanced writing. Network shows tend to spoonfeed the narrative but I was hoping this show could rise above.

 

 

And why would he take his girlfriend to the party??  Certainly she would be going around looking for him when she noticed him missing for more than a few minutes.  A jock party is hardly the place for a clandestine affair.  But then again, teenage boys tend to be dumb.

[sjohnson]

The police of course need to confirm that the semen is Eric's, to rule out a false confession. (Yes, there are such things as false confessions, usually produced by police interrogation I think.) It's hard to imagine that Eric withdrew before climax, which raises the question of how semen got onto the clothing. He does not seem to have much self control at all, anyhow, but why would he do that? Perhaps it was premature ejaculation?

 

The thing is, Eric's story hinges Taylor's incapacitated state being passed off as purely a consequence of his voluntary choices. And it also requires the sexual injuries are also the consequences of his desires. These are much more significant problems to accepting Eric's version than may be first apparent. And that it is believable they would hook up at a straight party with Taylor's girlfriend there.

 

First, unlike the vast majority of crime shows, American Crime seems to be realistic. But it is fiction. In a real case, assuming it is properly investigated (something you can't assume for rape charges,) the vomit on the clothes would be tested for drugs. Toxicology reports of that sort are very time consuming. So I can't even guess if the report may yet come in that Taylor was drugged with something else, or if we are to assume he was only alcohol-intoxicated. Of course alcohol can not just be used to lower your own inhibitions but others, which therefore verges on being a date rape drug in its own right. The group humiliation with the photo session on the face of it I think shows that numerous people were taking advantage of Eric's incapacity. Leslie's determination that choosing to take a drink means you mean all the consequences may be a popular notion but I think it is dubious (as well as uncharitable.)

 

Second, as to the emails, Leslie of course wants to insist that they be interpreted as settled intent from a skilled practitioner, not porn/fantasy aimed at appealing to Eric. Yes, there are underage youth who are already sexual veterans, but there's always more smoke than fire. It is disingenuous of Leslie to determine that Taylor wasn't just talking dirty.

 

Third, as to Eric and Taylor being so stupid as to plan an assignation at a straight orgy? There seems to be a great divide between those who are willing to believe that people are stupid and you should always accept stupidity as an excuse. Then there are those like me who think that pretending to be stupid is a defense learned early in school and often used.

 

One aspect I thought very interesting was the way the police disseminated negative information about Taylor to outsiders. I believe they are deliberately trying to undermine the prosecution. 
 

[Woebegone]

I kind of wonder what was going on in Taylor's head as the investigation progressed. We saw Eric getting more and more distressed as his worst case scenario drew closer and closer to reality, but Taylor seemed somewhat removed from it all. Was he really just hoping it would go away if he did nothing? Surely he should have foreseen that Eric would use the texts and emails to defend himself when it came between being ousted or being convicted of rape (and even if his suicide had succeeded, the evidence would still have come out).

There's also this disconnect between what Taylor said happened (almost nothing), what he remembers happening, and what actually happened. Eric looks like the guilty one right now because he admitted to sex with Taylor that night, but he hasn't been formally accused, and even if he were to be, the victim's testimony isn't entirely reliable. Did Taylor give consent and then withdrew it? Or did he give consent and, after being drugged, doesn't remember giving it? Blackouts can cover more than the drugged period and we know that Taylor went an entire week without realizing that he had been assaulted.

In a strange way, I'm hoping that Eric is innocent because what we've seen of him so far doesn't fit the stereotype of a rapist and I have trouble reconciling with the idea that a seeming non-monster could be guilty of something like this.

[starri]

Am I wrong in thinking that perhaps Eric and Taylor had a fully consensual encounter and then later there was a separate assault?  Because Taylor seemed awfully moony over Eric before those photos started going around.

[iMonrey]

This show can be frustratingly pretentious at times and I absolutely loathed the heavy-handed slam poetry at the top of this episode because all I could think during it was - "who the hell is this kid? Who are any of these kids? Are these students at Leland? How come we've never seen them before?" If they're just going to insert random "real life" classroom performances to drive home their point they should do it every episode and let us know that's what they're doing, not just throw some baffling scene into a solitary episode and leave us wondering who the hell that kid was supposed to be.

 

A lot of Felicity Huffman's scenes strike me as overly pretentious too, the way she talks in circles and philosophizes and rationalizes in a way to hit us over the head with how complex, smart and compartmentalized she is. She's sort of like a robot and doesn't strike me as being a real person.

 

Then there's stuff I regard as pointless filler. This whole business with Mateo and his friends beating up on some black kid so Mateo can go talk to the principal and lash out about racial tensions or inequalities or whatever. I realize the show is trying to send a message here but I don't give a damn about Mateo or the other kids. This isn't what the story is about. I get the whole rich kid/poor kid dynamic they've got going on between the Leland and Marshall schools but I don't need a bunch of extraneous characters to drive the point even further if they're not even involved in the main story. This isn't a soap opera.

 

Further, only four episodes in and I'm getting awfully tired of the repetitiveness of Kevin's family. It seems like every time his mother opens her mouth she's got some variation of "It's worse for you because the other boy is white and you're black." Talk about the subtlety of a sledge hammer - we get it already.

 

But then, the thing that keeps me coming back is the acting, in particular the actors who play the kids. Taylor, Eric and Kevin are all compelling characters played believably. I just don't know if there's really enough story here to fill out ten one-hour episodes because I'm seeing a pattern where nothing of consequence happens until the last 10 or 15 minutes of each episode. The rest of it's a lot of setting up, filler and nonsense. 

[Anna525]

I'm really curious to see what happens on this show. I think Taylor and Eric hooked up before the party and were going to keep everything a secret. I initially thought Eve was a witness to the "rape" but after seeing her reaction to Taylor's mom's outburst, I think all she saw was Taylor getting drugged and drunk and pictures being taken. Eric immediately got nervous when he heard DNA swabs were to be taken. Somehow it hasn't clicked immediately with Taylor, and by transferring schools he naively thought the issue would go away. I think this is going be a very sad ending for Taylor. Once his new schoolmates find out what happened to him via the news he'll end up getting bullied again.  

[tennisgurl]

So, that angry Hispanic kid Mateo? He shares a name with the incredibly cute baby from Jane the Virgin, which keeps taking me out of the story every time he pops up. Whenever someone says his name, I expect the Latin Lover Narrator to start narrating the events. 

 

The slam poetry thing was realistic, I have been to a few slam poetry events, and people do snap and cheer, and that is how they are performed. What the hell it was doing in the middle of the story? No idea. I get that its connected to the rape storyline thematically, but it just comes off as random. I kept expecting to see Taylor or one of the characters in the audience, but it was just random people. It was like when Eric was listening to a song where they said something about living a lie like 30 times. Not super subtle. 

[designing1]

 

I just don't know if there's really enough story here to fill out ten one-hour episodes because I'm seeing a pattern where nothing of consequence happens until the last 10 or 15 minutes of each episode.

 

I missed episode three and was afraid there'd be holes in the storyline for me if just went ahead and watched this one, but I really don't feel like I missed anything. Perhaps I'll have a "hey, when did we find that out?" moment later on, but week to week? No problem keeping up with the dragged out storyline. 

[Bishop]

It seems to me that Taylor was drugged. If he was there to have sex with Eric, maybe he drank a little, or got a little high, but I just don't think he would be getting so wasted he couldn't experience it. And those photos show him clearly way out of it. It's hard to think Eric could be that much of a dumbass to think, if Taylor was in that condition, that their plans could go forward. Maybe they had sex before Taylor was drugged. Maybe Eric really didn't have anything to do with the crime aspect. We don't know.

I agree, and the problem for me with the idea that anything was consensual is that Taylor told his mother that he thinks "they did something to me."  Now if had he consensual sex with Eric or was even nervous about the sex and so he took drugs (never ever smart) beforehand, then he still would not have been traumatized like he was afterwards - enough to actually confess it to his mother AS a trauma.  Furthermore, if he knew the sex was consensual and even if he felt ashamed afterwards, he would simply have told his mother that he was hazed by the guys, but his confession to his mother was one of trauma, and he looked tramatized.  So if the story is whitewashed in later episodes, I'll be upset.

 

All roads are pointing to an assault, but if it turns out to be gay sex and ashamed boys then it's a waste.  I agree with those that mixing "rape" with "gay sex" is a disservice.  One does not equal the other.  I will be fine watching Eric deal with his sexuality and the reaction of his family and friends.  That's normal.  I will be fine if Taylor is experimenting with his sexuality because I honestly don't know what he prefers.  That's normal today I guess too.  What isn't normal is when a story is depicting male rape and so now let's automatically go in the direction of gay sex.  No.  It's right up there with the ludicrous and ridiculous statements I've heard from some people that if a man gets raped, he'll "turn gay."  No.  Just no.  I don't like when writers do this.  Pick a topic and stick with it, but muddy the waters.  I have to wait and see how this plays out.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Bishop

[RedheadZombie]

I like the focus on class differences and a twist on the rope of rich white privilege, but why do both boys involved in this incident have to be lower income kids?  It has to be more complicated than this, because it's just leading to the implication that you need to keep the rabble out of the rich kid schools.  I'm sure that's not the intended message.

 

I was confused with the headmaster's conversation with her boyfriend... what happened with his daughter? Was it mentioned in the first episode because I missed it (tuned in late).

 

Was caught by surprise with the N-bomb. I remember hearing it in a movie that aired on Disney Channel in the early 2000s (The Color of Friendship), so it's not a new thing. Just makes me wonder how they decide what to censor... is it that anything's allowed and networks just keep it classy on their own (for advertisers and the like)? Or do they get fined?

 

It seemed like there was a bullying episode regarding the headmistresses' boyfriend's daughter, but it didn't interest me enough to really wonder.

 

I too was surprised at the "N" word, but I noticed a warning regarding language. 

 

 

Second, as to the emails, Leslie of course wants to insist that they be interpreted as settled intent from a skilled practitioner, not porn/fantasy aimed at appealing to Eric. Yes, there are underage youth who are already sexual veterans, but there's always more smoke than fire. It is disingenuous of Leslie to determine that Taylor wasn't just talking dirty.

 

She made a slippery slope from Taylor's hint that he likes a pillow over his face, to inviting being held down and raped.

 

In a strange way, I'm hoping that Eric is innocent because what we've seen of him so far doesn't fit the stereotype of a rapist and I have trouble reconciling with the idea that a seeming non-monster could be guilty of something like this.

 

I'm not sure what the conclusion will be, but it seems like they would have found DNA from another source, if Taylor had consensual sex with Eric and then raped by another.  As to not acting like a rapist, Eric certainly demonstrated rage and desire to dominate when he jumped on his younger brother and attempted to choke him out.

[starri]

I'm not sure what the conclusion will be, but it seems like they would have found DNA from another source, if Taylor had consensual sex with Eric and then raped by another.  As to not acting like a rapist, Eric certainly demonstrated rage and desire to dominate when he jumped on his younger brother and attempted to choke him out.

I'm not trying to say this excuses his behavior, but it seemed to me that he was freaking out that the brother would find the incriminating texts.

 

I like the focus on class differences and a twist on the rope of rich white privilege, but why do both boys involved in this incident have to be lower income kids?  It has to be more complicated than this, because it's just leading to the implication that you need to keep the rabble out of the rich kid schools.  I'm sure that's not the intended message.

Eric might have a lower income than most of the kids at his school, but he's also not a scholarship case; the dad made some comment about how he and the soon-to-be-ex are in debt because of his tuition.  And the broader point is that people are going to believe the middle-class kid while this great swell of private, for-profit school PR behind him, not the poor boy.

Edited January 28, 2016 by starri

[Soobs]

I definitely think Taylor was raped by someone. Perhaps it was the older guy Eric has been seeing/ molested by/ bought by? I'm not sure what their relationship is. Anyway, not only does it seem unlikely that they would hook up in such a public, bro dude setting but it seems like Taylor is less experienced than Eric and I would imagine that rough, anal sex wouldn't be on the menu for a first time encounter.

 

Count me on wondering where this is going. This season is a lot better than last.

[nameless slob]

I really, REALLY tried to give Leslie the benefit of the doubt, and perhaps we'll see that she's a human and not a reptilian zipped inside a skin suit eventually

 

But damn if Felicity Huffman doesn't play her perfectly. I adore her scenes. I adore her calculated walk, calculated eyes, her calculated talk. When meeting with the board, eyeing everyone, watching for their reactions... Noticed how the camera gave her a clear shot at the end, compared with how dark the shot was last episode, when she discovered there was evidence of sexual assault? Again the episode ends on her face, this time her eyes are clear as water. That woman found her way out. I do buy her as someone real, her school is her life, her product, her perfect child, and she will protect it no matter what. Damn you, Felicity Huffman. 

 

"No, we don't wanna email people. We don't wanna email them".

 

Her condescending smile and tone when saying that, with just a touch of "the stupid is high in this one" and one "I have to do it all alone apparently" on the side... Damn you, Felicity Huffman.

[starri]

Oh no, I don't think Leslie and Terri would be quite so loathsome if the performances weren't so good.  Frankly, they'd come off like cartoon characters.

 

It's not even a "love to hate" kind of thing, it's a real visceral hatred.

[ketchuplover]

I wasn't paying full attention. How did Eric attempt suicide? tyia

[starri]

He swallowed his dad's bottle of Ativan and washed it down with a few beers.

[iMonrey]

One thing we can be sure of is that Kevin is hiding something, and Eric knows what it is, because in a previous episode he said to Eric "the little bitch said something." So his prepared and recorded statement for the attorney was demonstrably false. I think there's probably two different situations we're dealing with here - one is Eric and Taylor relationship (whatever it may have been) and the assault at the party. I just think Eric panicked when he found out about the DNA tests because he knew they'd find his DNA and figured he'd be accused of the assault.

[Woebegone]

I'm not sure what the conclusion will be, but it seems like they would have found DNA from another source, if Taylor had consensual sex with Eric and then raped by another.  As to not acting like a rapist, Eric certainly demonstrated rage and desire to dominate when he jumped on his younger brother and attempted to choke him out.

 

I don't think the DNA results are in yet? I mean, it's possible that they were conducted and the show just left it out of the narrative, but I don't think we even saw the students get their DNA samples taken.

 

The show has done a good job of showing two sides of Eric so that we can see how he could have been a rapist in the circumstances of that party, but also left a lot of room for why we'd be skeptical -- why we would even want to be skeptical. He's a complex character, rapist or no.

 

I really, REALLY tried to give Leslie the benefit of the doubt, and perhaps we'll see that she's a human and not a reptilian zipped inside a skin suit eventually, but I honestly think her scene with the school's board of directors made her irredeemable awful.  Possibly even worse than Terri, since Terri's primary motivation is to protect her son.

 

I'm pretty sure she's a sociopath. No empathy for other people? Check. Only care about her own self-interest? Check. Is capable of acting like she cares for the sole purpose of manipulating people? Check.

 

One thing we can be sure of is that Kevin is hiding something, and Eric knows what it is, because in a previous episode he said to Eric "the little bitch said something." So his prepared and recorded statement for the attorney was demonstrably false. I think there's probably two different situations we're dealing with here - one is Eric and Taylor relationship (whatever it may have been) and the assault at the party. I just think Eric panicked when he found out about the DNA tests because he knew they'd find his DNA and figured he'd be accused of the assault.

 

There's this line of dialogue he has with Terri: "I just don't want him to get in trouble for something... I just don't want him to get in trouble." Yeah, he knows something.

[RedheadZombie]

One thing we can be sure of is that Kevin is hiding something, and Eric knows what it is, because in a previous episode he said to Eric "the little bitch said something." So his prepared and recorded statement for the attorney was demonstrably false. I think there's probably two different situations we're dealing with here - one is Eric and Taylor relationship (whatever it may have been) and the assault at the party. I just think Eric panicked when he found out about the DNA tests because he knew they'd find his DNA and figured he'd be accused of the assault.

 

Eric's the one who said, "that little bitch said something".  Kevin responded, "it's nothing".  Then Eric said, "well it's nothing for you.  They're not doing anything to you".

 

But they certainly implied in the first couple of episodes that Kevin knew something, and Eric knew he knew it.  Something seemed unspoken between the two of them, but it may have simply been throwing the big orgy party together.

 

ETA:  Or it may have been the laughing and picture taking after the fact.

Edited January 29, 2016 by RedheadZombie

[Portia]

You know what else was really clunky to me tonight? Evy's dialogue, in particular, but the young people's in general. The slang that was written for them didn't sound at all genuine coming out of their mouths. Something I hadn't noticed before.

I guffawed when Eric's little brother complained about their parents' "nonsense."

[Madding crowd]

I really hope this won't end like last year with us never knowing what really happened. And yes, I know last year Carter whispered something to his sister but that was just not a finite answer to me. The biggest cop out last season was in having the wife of the murder victim having amnesia and thus no information on the crime.

 

I didn't care for the spoken word part since it didn't relate directly to our characters. I'm sure we all would agree that a teenager boy can have just as many problems with being raped as a girl. 

 

I wonder if it will come down to Kevin being in some sort of triangle with Taylor and Eric. l would find it a bit unbelievable if both co-captains of the basketball team happened to be closeted gays, but of course it is remotely possible. Maybe Eric and Taylor planned to hook up after the party and Kevin became jealous?

 

I'm still watching but finding the endless speeches by the adults to be kind of repetitive at this point. I also don't understand Timothy Hutton's character and what he is all about. Then there is the completely unrelated sub-story of the racial tension in the poor school. For me, the acting by the teenagers is what is keeping me watching. I felt genuine fear for Eric and then thought Taylor might do the same thing after hearing his mom reading his texts aloud. Felicity Huffman's character and Regina Kings character are stereotypes to me and don't seem like real people. 

[Dowel Jones]

And, to twist the plot even further, what if the DNA does not match any of the people at the party?

 

Mateo gets a three day suspension for an assault on another student?  Not just a push and shove, but a full on beat down. 

 

ETA:  Did the PD detective really give out suspect information to Taylor's mom before an arrest? 

 

And, on a side note, that school director in the meeting scene really needs to get his glasses refitted.  I have never seen a crease so deep.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Dowel Jones

[sjohnson]

It still seems huge to me that the cops are sharing the texts with everybody they can. 

[caracas1914]

It seems there is so much exposition background noise with the adult characters, and as some one said, the show's writers  woldn't know a subtle bone if it was X rayed in front of them.

 

I supose if there is genuine "who donnit" element to the rape that would be interesting, but other than Eric and Taylor we don't really know the other baskerball players as much.

 

The one potentially intriguing character for me is Timothy Hutton's coach, I can't read him all that easily, and while there is a skeevy weasely vibe to him, he also seems genuinely fond of his players or maybe his image as a "caring" coach.

 

Personally, i don't find Felicty Hoffman's character all that cartoonish, I've run around way too many amoral rationalizing adults in real life so that her character strikes true to me.  

[bref]

I must have missed it--I'm curious in what context the N-word was used? TYIA.

[Bobcatkitten]

There has to be something more than consensual secret sex between Eric and Taylor because otherwise the scenes between the basketball players earlier this season don't make sense. Eric talked specifically in one scene to Kevin about "that little bitch saying something." And Eric wouldn't have been talking about the consensual sex because he didn't want his team to know he was gay. Also, when Kevin was reading the statement it was clear it was not accurate.

[LydiaMoon1]

That was a good episode.  There were so many crumbs of information dropped.  Here are my takeaways so far: 

 

1. Kevin is lying his azz off.  Val wouldn’t even let him touch her butt when they were alone in his room in his fancy house and his parents were home.  She always struck me as being very level-headed. I don’t for a minute believe she was reckless enough to have had sex with him on a bathroom floor in a middle of a party full of teenagers.  He’s probably sweating bullets trying to figure out how to convince her to become his alibi.

 

2. I don’t think Eric is the rapist.  All he actually confessed to was sexting Taylor and planning a hookup.  It seems to me that after that confession, everyone is just assuming the semen on Taylor’s clothes belongs to Eric.  Unless I’m mistaken, no DNA results have come back.  At this point, the ejaculate found on Taylor’s clothes could belong to anybody.  I do think Eric lured Taylor to the party though.  I don’t know, at this point, if the team (or members of the team) planned to turn Taylor into a party favor all along or if activities at the party spontaneously got out of hand, but it was no accident that one of the “cool” kids asked Taylor to that party out of the blue after ignoring him all year.

 

3. I didn’t get a good vibe off that guy his mother asked to look after Taylor. I’m gathering that she left Taylor in the care of that couple at some point?  It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that guy had molested Taylor.

 

4. The toxic masculinity of all the teenage boys is disturbing; the casual misogyny Eric and his brother drop into their daily conversations, Kevin’s disrespect towards girls his age contrasted with the spinelessness he displays towards his mother, that Mateo dude’s constant attempts to control Evy and regulate who she sees and what she does.  Cripes!  These boys are frightening.

 

5. While I like Taylor’s mother and understand her wanting to seek justice for her son, has she ever asked Taylor if he wants to pursue this case? I cringe with every step she takes because, once again, Taylor’s consent is being taken from him. She has pushed this to the point where Felicity Huffman’s character and that fancy school are ready to push back…..hard.  Taylor’s the one who is going to suffer.  If it was his choice to pursue this case I’d be with him 100%, but is it what he wants?  I don’t think so.

[BeatrixK]

I think it's going to come down to a question of consent - which I like, as a means of bringing up the 'rape' issue.  Sure...he seemed to be prepared to consent the hell out of it.  But...if he was drugged prior to the act, consent goes away, regardless of how much it may have been discussed prior.  Also...can kids that age actually 'consent', given the legal age of consent varies, regardless of how much it's agreed to by both minor parties.  I think the way the story is going is it's throwing out a whole lotta gray area, and what/when consent is granted, how it can be revoked, and how 'consent' is interpreted. 

 

If it were a girl/guy...I think it would, tacitly,  automatically sway the audience to the 'side' of the girl, regardless of the circumstances leading up to the incident.  Making it 'guy guy', I think, leads to less 'predetermination' on the audience's part as to the victim, since those gender roles aren't automatically assigned given a potential same sex crime.

[Bobcatkitten]

There is a sneak peek online for next week. Getting complicated.

[possibilities]

I think if it was a girl, there would be people saying she was a slut who asked for it, and what the hell was she doing getting wasted, and since the party was known for girls fucking basketball players, she had to know what would happen if she showed up there. Some people would be on her side, but most would think she had bad judgment for being in the situation in the first place, and that she was at fault and an embarrassment for "being so out of control" (after all, the coach's daughter, a Nice Girl, manages to  be a cheerleader and to navigate the sports culture without "getting in trouble" and "embarrassing everyone").

 

It being a boy introduces the idea that it's more obviously shameful for the males to "do something" to him-- both because it puts his masculinity into question and because it hits the homophobic panic button, but if people do become convinced he was assaulted and violated rather than that he "wanted it" then the shame is both greater and more broadly applied-- because boys are not supposed to be victims, they are not supposed to be "interested in raping boys" (people still confuse rape with sexual desire rather than with power and dominance, and thus will excuse male-on-female rape as "sex that went a little too far" but "male-on-male" rape as inherently deviant and "gay").

 

I am starting to lose faith that the show understands that rape is violence, not sex, and that an attack on Taylor would be part of the pattern of bullying and humiliating him, not a revelation that whoever did it is actually gay, and did it to express their sexuality. Maybe they are smart enough to make the distinction, or maybe they aren't. Right now, I think it's impossible to know where they are headed, and I think they are deliberately making it vague because they want to provoke viewers to examine our assumptions. That could be good, if it goes in a truthful direction, or bad if it doesn't.

 

I hope they are not making Taylor and Eric the "riff raff" to promote the idea that "mixing classes causes trouble" but more to show that class determines access to justice and that the system is rigged both formally and informally-- not only by who gets a lawyer, but also be who gets everyday respect all day long and who does not.

 

In the beginning of the series, I thought there was an intimacy and friendliness between Kevin and Eric that was being highlighted in the scenes where Kevin and Eric were practicing together and Eric kept being the less skilled player, but Kevin was very patient with him and sympathetic, rather than being impatient or frustrated. I expected there to be more rivalry, and less intimacy, between them. And I thought Kevin was going out of his way to help Eric, way more than his character would be expected to do, given his generally selfish, self-absorbed persona. I don't think it was an accident that they showed that. Even the "heroic game-winning shot" Eric made, which he referenced in this week's episode, I thought had to do with Kevin giving him an opportunity that the coach did not intend for him to have. I might be mis-remembering the details there, but I remember, at the time, that it didn't look to me like a throwaway "feel good/game is glorious" scene just about how the jocks are school royalty, but more about the specific dynamic between the co-captains.

 

I also get the same skeevy, suspicious vibe from the coach as others have mentioned. I was seriously suspecting he was the rapist when this story got going. I still don't rule out that he's more than just a guy who doesn't want to see his team embroiled in scandal. They're putting waaaay too much emphasis on his weirdness for it to be unintentional that he comes across the way he does.

Edited January 29, 2016 by possibilities

[iMonrey]

 

3. I didn’t get a good vibe off that guy his mother asked to look after Taylor. I’m gathering that she left Taylor in the care of that couple at some point?  It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that guy had molested Taylor.

 

That's the same thing I thought. He seemed a little to anxious to watch Taylor. I don't know who these people are supposed to be, but I hope they don't go down that route, i.e. Taylor molested as a child = turning gay.

[sjohnson]

Maybe it's my imagination but I got the impression that Taylor's grandparents weren't very satisfied with Taylor's mom. And I interpret their attitude towards Taylor as somewhat proprietorial, as in "We can do better with him than she can." 

 

As for the coach, there are some people in education who basically cast themselves in a drama where their wisdom and sensitivity remake the lives of their charges. Their wonderfulness for a period each weekday is enough to make up for the trivialities of the rest of their lives, and far more important than mere parents. (Sadly, this isn't exaggerating the bad cases too much.) Add in the coach's temptation to appropriate the kids' success to themselves? I don't think we need to see sinister motives in Coach Dan. He's just so vain he thinks he molding their personalities. I hope that's it, anyhow. A couple of gay/bi kids, even as co-captains, on a basketball team is not really so improbable. But throwing in a gay/bi coach and a gay/bi grandfather too starts to push it. 

 

One thing about Eric is the way his violent tendencies appear when his masculinity is threatened by exposure to (as he sees it) hostile eyes, like his brother. Or implied when his father talked deodorant. When we saw him with the older guy he wasn't that way at all, he felt equal (maybe superior.) It's not clear to me that he would be rough enough to lacerate Taylor's anus. Rape is on a continuum with all other kinds of assault, not a natural outgrowth of sexual activity, I think. He's angry with Taylor because he's afraid, now, after the events. Whoever assaulted Taylor wanted to hurt him. As of now there's no reason we know of for anyone at the party to be angry at Taylor. But if we speculate as to motive, the possibility of jealousy leads us to wonder about Kevin/Eric. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by sjohnson

[Dowel Jones]

I’m gathering that she left Taylor in the care of that couple at some point?

 

She mentioned in her conversation with Taylor that "she wasn't in a good place and needed help", and so left him with them.  I'm guessing mental/emotional stress and/or substance abuse at one point.

[represent]

 

But if we speculate as to motive, the possibility of jealousy leads us to wonder about Kevin/Eric.

Yeah, there's something more going on here with Kevin for sure. 

 

Also, I can't put my finger on it, but the coach just seems so skeevy. By the end of the episode when he's talking to his daughter about coming to him with problems, he seems quite normal, fatherly. 

 

But since this season began they just seem to be writing him or TH is just playing him as someone who has something to personally hide.

 

 

Personally, i don't find Felicty Hoffman's character all that cartoonish, I've run around way too many amoral rationalizing adults in real life so that her character strikes true to me.

I don' t either. Nor do I find Regina King's character to be cartoonish.  It's all seems very real and on point to me.

 

 

I am starting to lose faith that the show understands that rape is violence, not sex, and that an attack on Taylor would be part of the pattern of bullying and humiliating him, not a revelation that whoever did it is actually gay, and did it to express their sexuality. Maybe they are smart enough to make the distinction, or maybe they aren't. Right now, I think it's impossible to know where they are headed, and I think they are deliberately making it vague because they want to provoke viewers to examine our assumptions. That could be good, if it goes in a truthful direction, or bad if it doesn't.

 

If Ridley is behind all of this, then I still have faith that this is all deliberate and headed in a valid direction.

Edited January 29, 2016 by represent

[Chaos Theory]

I was curious what people would think of the heavy handed slam poetry. I understand why some people hated it because it was heavy handed but then I think that was entirely the point. Personally I loved it and watched it half a dozen times before I moved on to the actual episode.

[represent]

 

I was curious what people would think of the heavy handed slam poetry. I understand why some people hated it because it was heavy handed but then I think that was entirely the point. Personally I loved it and watched it half a dozen times before I moved on to the actual episode.

I loved it, I listened to it and thought about the main story line.  I too have also seen a poetry slam so the snapping wasn't strange to me. I didn't find any of it heavy handed, it was art.  Art speaks to you or it doesn't.

 

I think when the poet said something to effect of those or it may have been law enforcement worrying about the house and the things that were taken instead of focusing on the the people, because he was making an analogy between his rape and I think a house being robbed....

 

I was thinking that the focus on the sexual identity of these boys doesn't matter.  

 

I thought it was a statement on what should be our focus when it comes to cases like these. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by represent