S03.E09: Making Memories

[Evil Queen]

What was David's solution? Something about how he was attracted to her but he may not be anymore??

And his "solution" was even shorter than hers. Also, It was so important to him that he wrote it on his phone! Maybe it's a millennial thing that I do not understand--I would not think he was taking it seriously typing his answer on his phone.

I thought she wrote down what she thought had to change--the biggest obstacle-her feelings about him--and that she was exhausted in trying to do this. Trying to make yourself feel something you don't probably is exhausting!

 

Maybe its just me but I saw no issues with how he did it. I have done this for many things because it was right there and easier to have on hand to be able to relay what I had to say or remember something I need to ask someone else later on. I think its way worse to be taking a piece of paper and putting down one sentence about yourself being to tired to do this now. 

Which also makes me wonder if those "personality tests" given to the applicants are all multiple choice. Because it seems to me if any part of their screening involved writing out their answers, this issue should have been quite obvious to the "experts."

 

I am wondering if there so called "tests" are just the questions on the app you fill out to be on the show. Either way they obviously are NOT paying attention to a damn thing that is being sad or catching on that someone is a major wackjob that should be getting therapy and not into a marriage. 

[Aethera]

Let's not get super-deep into the 90 Day Fiance rabbit hole, please - there's a forum for that :)

[Gator Stud]

I think it takes a special kind of stupid for a guy to say "ugh, she's not my type" while on TV. Guys already have the stereotype of being only attracted to women for their looks so leaning into that stereotype would leave a seriously bad impression on future dates.  I'm sure the show can find some guys like that but I bet they ain't husband material.

I disagree with this. The first serious conversation I would have had was to tell the woman that she is not my type. This is not the same thing as saying you are not attracted to them. The only women from all three seasons who were my type were Courtney from S1 and Jackie from S2- mainly because of their personalities.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Gator Stud

[rab01]

I disagree with this. The first serious conversation I would have had was to tell the woman that she is not my type. This is not the same thing as saying you are not attracted to them. The only women from all three seasons who were my type were Jamie from S1 and Jackie from S2- mainly because of their personalities.

LOL, it was the "ugh" part that I was focusing on, not the rest of it ;)

[Gator Stud]

I made an edit to my last post.  Jaime is not my type at all, Courtney is.

[bichonblitz]

Vanessa makes a freudian slip when talking to Tres grandma.  Tres looked genuinely hurt in that scene.

 

I missed that! What did Vanessa say??

[bichonblitz]

Very random thoughts:

Sam's mom is enabling. If I was acting like her, my parents would say, "Look kid, maybe the marriage would be going better if you weren't such an asshole all the time."

 

I love your parents! You have to tell your kids when they're being jerks and why they shouldn't be jerks or they will grow up to be like....Sam!

Edited January 29, 2016 by bichonblitz

[qtpye]

I disagree with this. The first serious conversation I would have had was to tell the woman that she is not my type. This is not the same thing as saying you are not attracted to them. The only women from all three seasons who were my type were Courtney from S1 and Jackie from S2- mainly because of their personalities.

 

 

I am sure that you would be much more kind and sensitive than Sam, with her bull in a china shop type personality.  She almost sounded like she was going to make gagging noises when she told Neil she was not attracted to him.

 

I am sure you would be much more kind and diplomatic then Sam, with her Bull in a china shop delicacy.

Vanessa makes a freudian slip when talking to Tres grandma.  Tres looked genuinely hurt in that scene.

    

I missed that! What did Vanessa say??

 

 

 

I think the Grandmother asked something to the effect of "do they see this (the marriage) lasting" and Vanessa misheard the question and said no.  Someone else can give you much better recap then what I just wrote, as my memory is fuzzy on the "phone call to grandma moment".

[Gator Stud]

LOL, according to my husband, who is of course the expert on all things male-related (just kidding), he says that a lot of men can be perfectly happy married to a woman they wouldn't kick out of bed but isn't their "princess charming".  He says men just aren't like women that way and don't tend to be so super-picky.  Of course, being female, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that!

 

I agree with this.  If the looks are not all that, and the personality is good and the sex life is healthy, then men can tolerate that.

[Adeejay]

It has been said that a man doesn't have to be attracted to a woman to sleep with her, but  for a woman, there has to be some attraction. However, studies show that when being set-up on a blind date, a man's first question is, "What does she look like?" and a woman's is, "What does he do for a living?" 

[Dss888]

First time posting here. I enjoy reading the comments and getting other people's point of view. It seems like most of the posters are women so i thought I'd give a middle aged guys side of things, in some cases a little different than what other posters are saying.

Vanessa: very attractive, maybe a little insecure about Trey leaving but that's forgivable given the situation. He seems to be a good guy, those two look happy. The giggling - most guys find that attractive, she has a nice smile, didn't bother me a bit.

Ashley: wow, a dead fish. Doesn't open up for 2 months? See ya. Can't even hold hands? Hugs strangers but not her stranger of a husband. She's frigid, i can't imagine being with her. There is a reason she was in a ten year relationship and didn't get married. The guy fell in love at one point, probably young, and didn't realize when he fell out of love, just kept going but never felt right about getting married, then finally figured it out.

David is handling things well, i can see how he's a good salesman - very positive, outgoing, won't quit, can handle failure and keep going. I wish i had those qualities. If he's striking out on the dating scene he's probably too much on the nice guy approach, needs to learn how to be a "bad guy" every so often. Just act like you don't give a @&$ and can do great without them every now and then.

Sam: im biased, she's cute. Appearance, mannerisms, i like her except when she demeaned Neill. But, that guy does need to man up - a good guy but he's always going to be the friend. His ex at the wedding - crazy. when the relationship is done there is no friend zone. Its done. Any real guy is not going to want to hang out and be friends. If it seems that way, they're really just looking to get into her pants. Seriously - guys do not hang out with gals who like football because they are a good football watching buddy. They hang out because they think there is a chance. But i digress...

Sam is playful, Neill has a stick up his butt. Dude is way too serious. Missing signs too.

I was curious to see how everyone read Sam's expressions during the homework assignment. That was not a disrespect thing, that was a playful thing. Seriously, staring at someone in the face while putting your hands in the slap-game formation? That's really stupid, and as a guy I'd be all over Sam playing around. The playing around is the communication. Open up stupid! Have fun. This cute gal is right in front of you, making silly faces, play with her! She makes those faces when she's a little uncomfortable or nervous anyway, so take advantage and take charge. Dont make silly faces back, per se, but act like you're going to do something to her if she does it again. Get in her space, whisper in her ear you're going to bite her tongue if she sticks it out again, and smile. Put your finger or hand near her cheek as close as possible and tell her you're still not touching her. Play with her hair, maybe grab it lightly when she makes a face. Geez, what an opening. If nothing else, at least just laugh, ughh. Such a terrible match.

Anyhow, these experts are terrible. In some ways i think this is some mad science experiment of theirs: "boy they'd think i was a genius if this crazy match actually worked!". Pretty messed up when people are supposedly trusting experts to make the biggest decision of their life for them.

[Meliss]

I disagree with this. The first serious conversation I would have had was to tell the woman that she is not my type. This is not the same thing as saying you are not attracted to them. The only women from all three seasons who were my type were Courtney from S1 and Jackie from S2- mainly because of their personalities.

[Meliss]

While there is such a thing as someone's type, I believe in the reality TV world, that is code for "not attractive."

I don't think a man would fare well if he came on this show & said that about a woman. Probably sexist, but I think women are more sensitive about their looks.

On a side note, I do not think the women should say they are not attracted to the men either. It is too harsh & feelings do change. I've met men that I did not initially find attractive until I got to know them--so I would hold off on saying that.

[Zanne505]

First time posting here....(deleted)...

Sam is playful, Neill has a stick up his butt. Dude is way too serious. Missing signs too.

I was curious to see how everyone read Sam's expressions during the homework assignment. That was not a disrespect thing, that was a playful thing. Seriously, staring at someone in the face while putting your hands in the slap-game formation? That's really stupid, and as a guy I'd be all over Sam playing around. The playing around is the communication. Open up stupid! Have fun. This cute gal is right in front of you, making silly faces, play with her! She makes those faces when she's a little uncomfortable or nervous anyway, so take advantage and take charge. Dont make silly faces back, per se, but act like you're going to do something to her if she does it again. Get in her space, whisper in her ear you're going to bite her tongue if she sticks it out again, and smile. Put your finger or hand near her cheek as close as possible and tell her you're still not touching her. Play with her hair, maybe grab it lightly when she makes a face. Geez, what an opening. If nothing else, at least just laugh, ughh. Such a terrible match.

Anyhow, these experts are terrible. In some ways i think this is some mad science experiment of theirs: "boy they'd think i was a genius if this crazy match actually worked!". Pretty messed up when people are supposedly trusting experts to make the biggest decision of their life for them.

I agree with this. I like Sam. I think she has been dropping signs from laying on the bed and pulling her shirt up in front of him to calling him into bed and asking him to be a little noodle. I wonder if some of her anger isn't from feeling rejected and/or for Neil not making a move.

[Snarklepuss]

It has been said that a man doesn't have to be attracted to a woman to sleep with her, but  for a woman, there has to be some attraction. However, studies show that when being set-up on a blind date, a man's first question is, "What does she look like?" and a woman's is, "What does he do for a living?" 

 

I've read about studies in which they show the same photo of the same man to two groups of women only they tell the first group he's unemployed or works in a low paying job and the second group that he's some kind of professional like a doctor, a lawyer or a rich businessman, and in repeated testings the second group universally found him much more physically attractive than the first!   So things like that do make a difference to women.  It's not all about looks with women, and other factors can actually be more important, unless you're Ashley and looking for a reason to find something wrong with a guy because you're really not ready to be married nor were you really up for being on a TV show like this!

 

ETA:  My husband says while it's about looks with men, they are just more forgiving about them than women think.  That's why women can get worried that their husbands might not find them attractive anymore if they gain 10 pounds and think they look horrible with it, but the vast majority of men would not care one bit.  Meanwhile, all my husband has to do is grow a beard and I'm like "Shave that shit off", LOL.  Not that I don't like beards, I just don't think he has the face for one (something he has decided he agrees with me on)!

Edited January 30, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[anarchyangel84]

When they were talking to the experts, I was wondering about something.

I'd like to think that even though I don't always agree with what the experts say, they know what they're doing. There are a lot of people that sign up for this process. I'd hope that they not only choose the people they do because they're a match, but because they're serious about this process. They obviously chose Ashley & Sam for a reason. They said something that made the experts believe that they were ready for this. But then they got married & something changed.

When they signed up for this, they probably thought about what it was going to be like. (Shallow Mustash-ley thought she'd get a 6'5" model with washboard abs- because that's obviously what thinks she deserves.) What I'm saying in a roundabout way is that Ashley, David, & Sam probably had expectations of what they thought their marriage/this process was going to be like. There's also what they may feel like is expected of them as husbands & wives. Obviously when you're married, you feel like you should be intimate in some way, even if it's just snuggling or kissing. Maybe since they don't feel comfy enough to do that yet, maybe they don't think they ever will. I don't know why the experts don't share with Ashley & David how Neil & Sam are doing and (vice versa). I know they can't give details, but maybe if they realize that they're not alone, maybe they wouldn't put pressure on themselves. Maybe they'd be able to relax & let it happen rather than forcing it.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the experts are just stupid & Ashley is just there for someone to support her while she goes to school.

[Liberty]

...I like Sam. I think she has been dropping signs from laying on the bed and pulling her shirt up in front of him to calling him into bed and asking him to be a little noodle. I wonder if some of her anger isn't from feeling rejected and/or for Neil not making a move.

 

Do you think that behavior is motivated by the presence of the film crew?

 

If that's the manner in which she behaves in front of the film crew, she must be a real tiger when they are not being filmed.

[Kareem]

...

Sam: im biased, she's cute. Appearance, mannerisms, i like her except when she demeaned Neill. But, that guy does need to man up - a good guy but he's always going to be the friend. His ex at the wedding - crazy. when the relationship is done there is no friend zone. Its done. Any real guy is not going to want to hang out and be friends. If it seems that way, they're really just looking to get into her pants. Seriously - guys do not hang out with gals who like football because they are a good football watching buddy. They hang out because they think there is a chance. But i digress...

Sam is playful, Neill has a stick up his butt. Dude is way too serious. Missing signs too.

I was curious to see how everyone read Sam's expressions during the homework assignment. That was not a disrespect thing, that was a playful thing. Seriously, staring at someone in the face while putting your hands in the slap-game formation? That's really stupid, and as a guy I'd be all over Sam playing around. The playing around is the communication. Open up stupid! Have fun. This cute gal is right in front of you, making silly faces, play with her! She makes those faces when she's a little uncomfortable or nervous anyway, so take advantage and take charge. Dont make silly faces back, per se, but act like you're going to do something to her if she does it again. Get in her space, whisper in her ear you're going to bite her tongue if she sticks it out again, and smile. Put your finger or hand near her cheek as close as possible and tell her you're still not touching her. Play with her hair, maybe grab it lightly when she makes a face. Geez, what an opening. If nothing else, at least just laugh, ughh. Such a terrible match. ...

Wow. Surprising. A man who is not nasty or malicious is matched with someone who seems to thrive on being abusive, demeaning and emasculating and he's the bad guy, a stick up his butt? I think the reason many were not impressed with her "playful" response to the assignment was because she had just thrown him out for joking/giving it back to her when she wanted to be serious about finding a different place to live. She made it clear she did not want to move at all, tells him in bed that there will be no key for him and there is no room for him and he was expected to be ok with that. She then ripped his head off for changing his mind the next day, and presented the problem that way to My Cilona. He can't win. Ever. Her quirks aren't as cute as she thinks they are. She's hurtful, nasty and cruel. Ashley is just a pile of wet sand. Sam is abusive, enjoys it and files it under the fact that she thinks she's great. Scary. jmho Edited January 30, 2016 by Kareem

[Snarklepuss]

I agree with this. I like Sam. I think she has been dropping signs from laying on the bed and pulling her shirt up in front of him to calling him into bed and asking him to be a little noodle. I wonder if some of her anger isn't from feeling rejected and/or for Neil not making a move.

 

You could be on to something here.  It would explain why Neil is being almost as cold to Sam physically as Ashley is to David.  He may have reason to be totally turned off to her just based on her being a total loon, but keeping his distance might only make her angry at him and abuse him even more.  I think Sam thinks she should be able to abuse Neil and he should find her attractive anyway, but it just doesn't work like that for any sane person who isn't a masochist.  And who knows if she wouldn't want him to go after her just so she can reject him anyway?  She is such a loon she might just do that.  So I think he's better off just avoiding her that way.

[Snarklepuss]

While there is such a thing as someone's type, I believe in the reality TV world, that is code for "not attractive."

I don't think a man would fare well if he came on this show & said that about a woman. Probably sexist, but I think women are more sensitive about their looks.

On a side note, I do not think the women should say they are not attracted to the men either. It is too harsh & feelings do change. I've met men that I did not initially find attractive until I got to know them--so I would hold off on saying that.

 

I agree with you about women being more sensitive about their looks and have posted myself that if any of the men said they weren't attracted to any of the women they would have likely walked out on them or worse.  But I don't know if keeping that from someone in this kind of situation is a good idea either because clearly Ashley should have told David she wasn't finding him attractive long before she did because it was the main reason they weren't getting anywhere.  I think men understand that women sometimes need to "warm up" to them more than women can accept that about a man.  Because usually in my experience the guy was attracted to me right off the bat and didn't need any convincing and if he did it usually didn't turn into a relationship in the first place.  Call it sexist, but given that women can take time to let down their walls with a guy (more time than men do) men are usually better at handling having to "go slow" with women sexually than women would be if the situation were reversed.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[moonxyz]

This thread is moving super fast. i can't imagine what this forum will look like when shit hits the fan at the reunion.

 

I don't know if anyone has touched on this yet but Tres is full of shit.

 

Tres (to the atheist rabbi): I pray for my marriage randomly throughout the day, even when doing random things like walking to my car.

 

Me: 

[BunnySlippers]

You could be on to something here.  It would explain why Neil is being almost as cold to Sam physically as Ashley is to David.  He may have reason to be totally turned off to her just based on her being a total loon, but keeping his distance might only make her angry at him and abuse him even more.  I think Sam thinks she should be able to abuse Neil and he should find her attractive anyway, but it just doesn't work like that for any sane person who isn't a masochist.  And who knows if she wouldn't want him to go after her just so she can reject him anyway?  She is such a loon she might just do that.  So I think he's better off just avoiding her that way.

 

I agree. Somehow I don't think that she would welcome Neil making a move on her.

[Jack Sampson]

This thread is moving super fast. i can't imagine what this forum will look like when shit hits the fan at the reunion.

 

I don't know if anyone has touched on this yet but Tres is full of shit.

 

Tres (to the atheist rabbi): I pray for my marriage randomly throughout the day, even when doing random things like walking to my car.

He probably does:

Tres: God, I screwed up. Please get me out of this.

[okerry]

I'm beginning to think that the best saying to apply to Ashley is, "Be careful what you wish for, you just may get it".  She may be another commitment-phobic type like Sean was last season in her own way.  I have to wonder about a woman who was involved with a guy for 9 years at her age and didn't get married to him.  Now I realize that relationship could have ended for any number of reasons but I'm starting to feel like perhaps both of them or at least she was too phobic about commitment and kept the guy at an emotional arms length so the whole thing fell apart eventually.  Where Ashley is concerned, it would be a classic commitment-phobic reaction to be presented with pretty much what she asked for in David but find nothing to like about him and just completely withdraw lest she let herself find things to like about the guy and (GASP) might have to honor the commitment she just made to him.  A commitment, by the way, that feels like a crushing weight upon her so bad that she can't breathe let alone act like a human being to David.

 

I know it sounds counter-intuitive that a commitment-phobe would actively seek marriage, but they do all the time.  They really do want to be committed to someone deep down but have so many conflicts with it that they end up sabotaging any good relationship they have.  Sometimes they try to "fix" this tendency by actually pushing for marriage with the next relationship just to get it over with because they can't seem to handle forming a real relationship with someone over time and ending up married.  So they seek the quick-fix fantasy solution.  Then when they actually do it, they FREAK and shut down or run away as fast as possible.  They will find everything wrong with the person and not let themselves open up to them one bit.  I said all this with Sean too if I remember.  I think this might also apply to Ashley.  She went into this thinking, "This time I'll definitely end up married", as if jumping into the deep end of the pool would solve her commitment phobia by forcing marriage as the first step before she could find reasons to want to back out.  Unfortunately she didn't realize that this approach wouldn't solve the inner conflicts that lead to her commitment-phobia in the first place, in fact it would only make them WORSE.  I think Ashley is completely shut down because she is being forced by contracts to stay committed to someone when that is the most frightening thing she has ever felt in her entire LIFE.  Realizing that she is actually MARRIED to this guy is blowing her mind and that in and of itself is enough to shut her down to even the most perfect guy in every way, especially in finding fault with his attractiveness.  She thought getting married would "poof" solve the problem in one fell swoop, but it did not, it only turned her into a basket case.

Snarkle, I think you are bang on with this and the show should hire YOU as one of the experts!

 

Though my impression is that David may be a commitmentphobe at heart, too, because he's admittedly "bad at relationships" but rilly, rilly wants to be married. I'm sure that he, too, thought the show could solve that problem by simply pole-vaulting him right over that messy dating stuff and presenting him with a fully committed wife with zero effort on his part.

 

Yet two commitmentphobes together will do nothing but sabotage the whole thing, and I think that's what we're seeing. Ashley sabotages by doing too little and David by doing too much.

Edited January 30, 2016 by okerry

[BunnySlippers]

Snarkle, I think you are bang on with this and the show should hire YOU as one of the experts!

 

Though my impression is that David may be a commitmentphobe at heart, too, because he's admittedly "bad at relationships" but rilly, rilly wants to be married. I'm sure that he, too, thought the show could solve that problem by simply pole-vaulting him right over that messy dating stuff and presenting him with a fully committed wife with zero effort on his part.

 

Yet two commitmentphobes together will do nothing but sabotage the whole thing, and I think that's what we're seeing. Ashley sabotages by doing too little and David by doing too much.

 

My impression of David's issues with dating was the exact opposite: that he wanted to commit too quickly.

[yb125]

I really wished that the experts gave us a better report on the people and the matches. Something like for each participant a run down on their (the experts) diagnosis of the reason the participants are not yet married and how this show/match addresses those issues. Hearing things like "I am not good at dating" is just super vague and not unhelpful. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by yb125

[Phoenix]

Ashley said she is a "Slow Mover" even in situations that are not stressful or rushed.  She told David that in this episode.  I bet he thought now this is the type of wife I've dreamed of having.  LoL  And how does this character trait make her a good nurse or social worker?  What medical facility wants a slow mover on staff?  Hope she never works in an emergency/trauma center.  Maybe she changed professions due to unhappy clients in her social worker profession.  I cannot imagine conversing with her in a counseling session. 

 

She is just so blah in every way.  And she got matched with David, an outgoing, fun guy who is very social and upbeat.  This match had to be made because of the drama it would bring.  Ashley even told the matchmaking therapists she was a slow mover in relationships at the point they were interviewing all the potential candidates.

[lavenderpenguin]

Sam is playful, Neill has a stick up his butt. Dude is way too serious. Missing signs too.

I was curious to see how everyone read Sam's expressions during the homework assignment. That was not a disrespect thing, that was a playful thing. Seriously, staring at someone in the face while putting your hands in the slap-game formation? That's really stupid, and as a guy I'd be all over Sam playing around. The playing around is the communication. Open up stupid! Have fun. This cute gal is right in front of you, making silly faces, play with her! She makes those faces when she's a little uncomfortable or nervous anyway, so take advantage and take charge. Dont make silly faces back, per se, but act like you're going to do something to her if she does it again. Get in her space, whisper in her ear you're going to bite her tongue if she sticks it out again, and smile. Put your finger or hand near her cheek as close as possible and tell her you're still not touching her. Play with her hair, maybe grab it lightly when she makes a face. Geez, what an opening. If nothing else, at least just laugh, ughh. Such a terrible match.

 

...at which point she'd reiterate her absolute disgust and lack of attraction to Neil, and likely, kick him out of the her house once again. But probably not before slapping him or recoiling in horror. Sam is not goofy, she's unstable and generally looks crazy with those weird faces she pulls (like when Neil's sharing his stories, she's shoveling food down and barely looking at him, but he's supposed to be 100% attentive when she's crying about grandma, yeah that's fair?). She wants someone to "put her in her place," but when Neil tries to crack a joke (after she has insulted him), she gets easily offended and throws him out.

 

When she was acting insane during their wedding, that was supposed to be cute, but when Neil tried to be goofy with the onesie, she was repulsed. I'm pretty sure she only thinks "weirdness" is "adorable" when she does it -- she doesn't like playfulness from anyone else, bizarrely enough. 

 

She's ridiculous and all of your ideas would probably make Neil the victim of further insults, not lead to anything romantic. The idea that Neil has a "stick up his butt," is silly, because we've SEEN him try and be goofy (cracking jokes, the onesie, etc.) in the beginning of the marriage -- Sam has consistently shown that she doesn't appreciate when he's quirky, she doesn't appreciate it when he's assertive (she gets offended *so* easily), and she doesn't like it when he's passive... essentially, she just doesn't like him no matter how he acts, because she thinks he's ugly.

Edited January 31, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[Vinyasa]

I really wished that the experts gave us a better report on the people and the matches.

 

I really wished the experts were better!

[izabella]

I wonder if Ashley has intimacy issues, emotional intimacy.  People with emotional intimacy issues find it hard to be themselves and open up in love relationships; they are more comfortable if things are more arm's length.  And, those people often fall for people whom they know won't work out, because it's easier knowing they will never be asked to give everything of themselves to the relationship (which would trigger their fears, mostly of possible rejection).  They pick commitment phobes or other emotionally unavailable people, they stay in long distance relationships that are going nowhere, married people...  Maybe Ashley finds only those kinds of guys hot, because they're fine with emotional distance.

Edited January 30, 2016 by izabella

[Neurochick]

Do "intimacy issues" mean that mean Ashley just has problems being intimate?

 

I don't think Ashley has intimacy problems; I think she's pissed that she wasn't matched to a man who is her physical type and she's angry at the show, at the experts, at David.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Neurochick

[sleekandchic]

Based on watching the show, the positive observations I can make about Sam are she's gainfully employed, owns her condo and seems to be financially independent. She has also shown us her fitness routine, which is a great habit to maintain; and she seems to love her pets.

I don't think Sam is a contented or happy person, and she seems perpetually disappointed and disaffected. She seems often on edge, and I think she has misplaced anger, too. IMO, she was an unsuitable candidate for this show, not only for her match, but more important, for herself. From what I've observed so far, her emotional and mental well-being are not being nurtured by participating in this show. I blame the "experts."

I think it's interesting that Sam has her associate degree in criminology and her BS in criminal justice and corrections. Yet, after college, she immediately went into banking as a teller.

That's a big change in career direction. Was that by her own choice, I wonder. If not, she needs to work on her disappointment or risk letting bitterness eat her alive.

These comments are just my opinions, based on my perceptions via an (admittedly) manipulated and edited "reality show." And, I will acknowledge, who really knows the truth?

Edited January 31, 2016 by sleekandchic

[still hoping]

I find it interesting that in season 1 we had mostly good looking people (if you overlook Doug -ew) and ignore Jamie's eyeliner

Jamie herself was on Bachelor and on the Bach Pad....which I think many of the latter "cast" on season 2 and especially season 3 would be gone at

the first rose ceremony if not before

 

There must be a huge gap in the "experts" opinions...and the producers...and the "would be's". I still feel that with any reality show the "innocence" and honest expectations dwindle with each show beyond the first one. Sometimes I think Sam is one who came on to be "cute" on TV - she probably really thought people would enjoy her quirky crazy self...hell she might have visions of herself with Kathy and Hoda or holding down  seat on the View (with Jamie on her lap, cause we know Jamie would love to work her way there LOL)

 

What of the beloved Pepper? Is everyone giving her a pass this year just cause she had some "face work" done or what? I have not seen much help from her and she harps on the idea that they were matched to help "change" each other etc (crazy IMHO)

 

I still like Tres and Vanessa if she can just "get out of her own way". She wants unconditional complete accepting love instantly IMHO...just the way she loves her little un-housebroken dog. The "share bathroom" stuff...the way she mopes around with no makeup or else giggles....some thing not right there. I agree she needs some deeper therapy....hopefully she can be helped and not lose Tres as he has grown on me and seems to be a good guy. I hope Vanessa "chills" and doesn't mess things up with her needy and unrealistic expectations?

[sleekandchic]

Ashley:

Re the comment upthread speculating that "any simpleton" can earn an MSW:

IMO, any profession or job, vocation or avocation, has its incompetents. Somebody will always be ranked last in his/her class. It's the reality of life. Don't judge most by one. :)

Edited January 31, 2016 by sleekandchic

[yb125]

 

he comment upthread speculating that "any moron" can earn an MSW:

 

Also I don't think we know where she earned it not all programs are created equal.

[lavenderpenguin]

I find it interesting that in season 1 we had mostly good looking people (if you overlook Doug -ew) and ignore Jamie's eyeliner

Jamie herself was on Bachelor and on the Bach Pad....which I think many of the latter "cast" on season 2 and especially season 3 would be gone at

the first rose ceremony if not before

 

I don't know, I thought Jamie was very pretty, and so was Courtney, but S2's women were all attractive too, in my opinion. Here, I think Vanessa is beautiful when she's all made up and cute when she's not. I don't think Sam or Ashley are that pretty, but neither of them are hideous either -- definitely cute with some make-up and hair done.

 

I have yet to find any of the men from S1, S2, or S3 attractive though. Some of them grew on me but not one of them has been conventionally good-looking IMO.

Edited January 31, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[Lion18]

From season one all three men had banging bodies. As for looks I would probably pick Jason. Season two I didn't like any of them. This season I would choose Tres but I like Neil's personality

[Evil Queen]

What of the beloved Pepper? Is everyone giving her a pass this year just cause she had some "face work" done or what? I have not seen much help from her and she harps on the idea that they were matched to help "change" each other etc (crazy IMHO)

 

 

IMO She is just as bad as the rest of them. I have notice some of what she says too about the pairings and I roll my eyes at it. Then the way she was with the couples. It came off as the guys faults for stuff and that they had to do things. There was no calling out these 2 crazy girls at all. When Dr. C saw Sam just nod her head like a bobble head he should have stopped her and asked if she was really listening to him at all. Same with the other ones. Telling David that Ashley needs no touching or anything and to talk it off the table is a joke. He had her saying she wasn't into David at all so that should have been the end for them. I am guessing contracts is why it wasn't or they didn't know how to handle doing that since it hasn't happened before this way. Then there is Logan with her stupid sex questions in a bowl for couples that still are getting to know each other. I could see if she had mixed questions in there so they could get to know each other more outside that area as well but she doesn't. Then we have the so called religious one...to me he is a waste of time and that whole thing is a joke. That part of their lives we never hear about until he comes around to talk to them. If the faith of each couple was that important to them you would think they would have discussed it from the beginning or soon after. I think all of them should be scrapped and get some new ones. Heck hold a contest to watchers of the show to put the next set of couples together. Either that or they need to have the experts see exactly what is going on as they film because they needed to see Sam and her abusive ways. As well as Ashley and how she is a cold dead fish. 

[izabella]

Do "intimacy issues" mean that mean Ashley just has problems being intimate?

 

I don't think Ashley has intimacy problems; I think she's pissed that she wasn't matched to a man who is her physical type and she's angry at the show, at the experts, at David.

 

I meant that I wonder if she has a fear of intimacy, which is a fear of getting hurt and a fear of feeling vulnerable .  I wonder about that more because of the pattern she has of falling for guys based only on looks, which could be part of that unconscious distancing behavior, self-sabotage from the start.  That 9 year relationship that ended could be the cause of her fear, or it could even be a manifestation of it. 

 

http://www.psychalive.org/fear-of-intimacy/

"Even though the fear of intimacy is a largely unconscious process, we can still observe how it effects our behavior. When we push our partner away emotionally or retreat from their affection, we are acting on this fear of intimacy. Holding back the positive qualities that our partner finds most desirable is another way we act on this fear. We often try to make ourselves less lovable, so we don’t have to be as afraid of being loved. These distancing behaviors may reduce our anxiety about being too close to someone, but they come at a great cost. Acting on our fears preserves our negative self-image and keeps us from experiencing the great pleasure and joy that love can bring."

 

http://www.couplescounselingchicago.net/fear-intimacy-five-warning-signs-need-know/

5. Emotionally and physically distant

Generally speaking, people who have a fear of intimacy can seem cold and distant in romantic relationships. This distance is both emotion and physical. You will find yourself feeling aggravated and confused about how they feel about you and your relationship, primarily because they simply don’t know how to express themselves.

While it may seem the person can have moments where they are warm and affable, their constant emotional state is withdrawn, hallmarked by a blunt affect.

 

But I think you're right about David.  She wasn't at all attracted to him, so just completely shut down.  All the rest is pure speculation!

[Liberty]

What of the beloved Pepper? Is everyone giving her a pass this year just cause she had some "face work" done or what? I have not seen much help from her and she harps on the idea that they were matched to help "change" each other etc (crazy IMHO)

 

 

Was there a connection with Poser Pepper and the owner of the property that characters David & Ashley "moved" into?

[Meliss]

Izabella-

I have also been thinking this about Ashley since the beginning, but I have a habit of justifying behavior, so I try to step back & look at what other people think too.

Most people say she is a snob, bitch or gold-digger because she is detached. I was surprised to see that because I really saw an introverted person who was completely overwhelmed emotionally--just as you wrote. She may be a snob, bitch or gold-digger but I found no sign of those things. I wish she wasn't so boring--but I don't think she's awful for having the feelings she has.

As someone else pointed out, Sean from last year acted like this when he got back from the honeymoon. I don't think that made him a bad person, those were his feelings.

I also feel that Ashley is hated on more because she is a woman & as the emotionally distant one in the relationship. Let's say the situation was reversed & the woman behaved like David & the man behaved like Ashley--would the general population see this differently?

I really think they would say the woman was delusional & the man was just having a hard time opening up and they would give him the benefit of the doubt.

Think about it, if a woman acted like David & said things like she was falling in love with someone who showed no interest in her at all -everyone would think she was "psycho."

[Jack Sampson]

What of the beloved Pepper? Is everyone giving her a pass this year just cause she had some "face work" done or what? I have not seen much help from her and she harps on the idea that they were matched to help "change" each other etc (crazy IMHO)

People give her a pass because she's friendly, smiles and, being so short, she's like watching a hobbit interact with humans.

Of the experts, we have:

The atheist religious expert.

The creepiest, most disturbing, most issue-ridden shrink in the biz.

The "sex therapist" whose most recent book tells wives to withhold sex to manipulate husbands into doing what you want...I'm not joking. Also, she advocates teaching children (not pre-teens or adolescents), children to "to embrace their sexuality". Don't get me started on the vocal fry.

And Pepper, she may be a screw up, but she's slightly more genuine than the rest. Maybe I give her too much credit, but compared to the rest, she's not intolerable to listen to.

Izabella-

I also feel that Ashley is hated on more because she is a woman & as the emotionally distant one in the relationship. Let's say the situation was reversed & the woman behaved like David & the man behaved like Ashley--would the general population see this differently?

If the roles were reverse, people would be ready to crucify David. The closest we have to that situation (and it's not even close to the way Ashley treats David) are Basement Ryan and Sean - both are vilified.

[Meliss]

Jack Sampson

We're Sean & Basement Ryan hated in social media like Ashley is this year?

If so, I am wrong about public opinion. I thought this wave of hatred towards Ashley was unprecedented.

[Jack Sampson]

Jack Sampson

We're Sean & Basement Ryan hated in social media like Ashley is this year?

If so, I am wrong about public opinion. I thought this wave of hatred towards Ashley was unprecedented.

Sean was, no one knew about BR until the reunion show.

[ctbabe]

Jack Sampson

We're Sean & Basement Ryan hated in social media like Ashley is this year?

If so, I am wrong about public opinion. I thought this wave of hatred towards Ashley was unprecedented.

I actually think people dislike Sam more than Ashley. People are just angry that Ashley didn't try.

[BunnySlippers]

I also feel that Ashley is hated on more because she is a woman & as the emotionally distant one in the relationship. Let's say the situation was reversed & the woman behaved like David & the man behaved like Ashley--would the general population see this differently?

I really think they would say the woman was delusional & the man was just having a hard time opening up and they would give him the benefit of the doubt.

Think about it, if a woman acted like David & said things like she was falling in love with someone who showed no interest in her at all -everyone would think she was "psycho."

 

I disagree. I think if the situation were reversed, people would dislike David even more than they dislike Ashley now. And as for David saying that he was falling in love with Ashley, several people have said that they had a problem with that. So it's not like he's getting a pass for saying that.

Jack Sampson

We're Sean & Basement Ryan hated in social media like Ashley is this year?

If so, I am wrong about public opinion. I thought this wave of hatred towards Ashley was unprecedented.

 

Yes, Sean was hated in social media. Once people found out about Basement Ryan's true nature, he was widely hated, too.

I think when people watch a show, it's inevitable for them to like some participants and dislike others. And when one of those participants doesn't treat the favored ones nicely, the viewers can't help but feel resentful towards the people who are hurting their favorites. I don't think it has anything to do with gender.

[sleekandchic]

Was there a connection with Poser Pepper and the owner of the property that characters David & Ashley "moved" into?

And don't forget it was Pepper's book " Snap...." that David was reading in bed after her visiting-advice session with him and Ashley. The experts are all selling something by their participation in this mess, primarily themselves.

[allthelight]

I don't find Ashley that bad. She's shutting down, yes, but compared to that abusive, mean and sadistic Sam, she's a saint.

[Paddywagon]

Ashley has deeper problems than just David I think. In one of the early episodes (first or second) she said she has no male friends. To me that's a red flag. Even more so because she treats David like he's got the plague or something but maybe it's just because he's male and she can't handle guys at all.

I think I'm in love with Neil, lol! Love his humor and when he was doing the eye contact exercise he was totally sexy.

Sam...reminds me of frat boy humor. Srsly, grow up and get some table manners.

Vanessa is gorgeous. I'd be cautious, too, if I were her. I think Tres might be ok but there's nothing wrong with a little caution until more time has passed and she learns what's a pattern and what's not.

[mythoughtis]

My issue with Ashley is that she's not trying.  She's not the only person involved, her not trying hurts David.  A  man who of all of the six brides/grooms is the one that is most thrilled to be married.  He's giving it his all.... I know Ashley's friend said David spends time on his phone off -camera.... don't we all?  Ashley was glued to hers on their honeymoon ON camera.   She's got a good guy there, he's nice, got good friends, a good job..... comes home at night rather than going out. cooks.   I don't know what expectations she has for a spouse, but realistically speaking, David's a good catch.  I think she goes for the bad guys, and has always skipped over the others. 

 

She's not married to an actor playing a role, she's married to a real person.  Possibly the only one of the six that is really wearing his heart on his sleeve and will suffer when this is all over.