S02.E03: Like A Boss

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Liza and Kelsey prepare to launch their new imprint in spite of online criticism.

[Primetimer]

And more not-quite-burning questions sparked by the latest episode.

Read the story

[rose711]

1. I hope Charles isn't the end game because that is the most predictable idea ever. And it takes away her agency of taking care of herself to having a man take care of her.<br /><br />2. I would never believe an angst you Josh the self employed tattoo artist worrying about Liz having a fake social security card. I doubt he has ever even had a job at a company that cares about ID. I buy that he doesn't want to lie to people for her because he's not a liar. I'm surprised that he forgave her that easily, if anything, because he didn't seem like the kind of person who would so easily forgive all the deception. He was the most deceived because they have the most intimate relationship. She not only lied about her age, she lied about a whole part of her life that includes an ex husband and a college bound daughter. I think he is showing better judgement in how to treat people than Liza.

[gesundheit]

1. I hope Charles isn't the end game because that is the most predictable idea ever. 

Agreed. I'm definitely rooting against that, even if it feels inevitable.

 

I can understand Josh not wanting to participate in Liza's lie. It makes sense. But yeah, it does seem pretty silly to have it be because he wants to live authentically or whatever. How about it's just awkward and weird?

 

I, too, had Diana's question about Liza's plaid diaper. Yikes.

 

I think this episode was in the can before the whole Fat Jew controversy exploded, but it definitely makes no sense that they didn't just edit that bit out before airing it.

 

Does Darren Star think that it's common for women to need to be relieved of panic attacks by ripping them out of expensive dresses? Why is this a recurring thing in his shows? 

 

Molly Bernard is freakin' hilarious. She's really a find -- her delivery of that "he's ghosting you!" line was pretty fabulous.

 

No Caitlin this week, hurrah!

Edited January 21, 2016 by gesundheit

[Ms Blue Jay]

This season..... oh boy.  The Josh mess is so convoluted it makes me too incoherent to comment on.  There's no organic conflict..  I don't know what's going on anymore.

 

Josh says he has to live an "honest life" but then deliberately hides what Debi Mazar is doing with the apartment from Liza?  Barf me a river.  He's so immature this season out of nowhere.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Julia]

I'm starting to wonder what happened between Josh and Caitlin that night, because while both of them were kind of immature before that, I don't buy that both of them all of a sudden became total toxic assholes overnight for the reasons they gave.

[SonofaBiscuit]

The "fashion" on this show continues to be AWFUL!  The top that Liza was wearing with that hideous plaid diaper actually looked kind of cute while she was sitting down.  Then she stood up and it was Aaahh!  What are you wearing?!  Lauren's outfit was hideous, the one-of-a-kind dress was hideous, Liza's denim jacket and white skirt was hideous.  I've never seen anyone dress like like the women on this show are, it's bizarre.

 

I know that many find Charles boring, but he seems like a nice guy and a good dad, and he has a stable job.  Those qualities aren't that easy to find in a partner these days!  Josh is fine, but I was really put off last season by the way that he and his gross roommate live.  I can see Liza having fun with someone like him, but I can't imagine her settling down or getting all that serious with him.

 

I wish Kelsey would dump her boyfriend.  He hasn't caused any problems this season, but I remember him being quite the douche during season one.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Solange Knowles at the Met Ball wearing Giles Deacon

 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh my gosh, I can't believe that Kelsey's fugly dress is actually a reality.  I hope that we were meant to find Younger's rip-off design hideous, and not a "work of art," or something.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to add something.  Lauren's dad is a CREEPER!  He's so completely inappropriate that I just can't find him funny.  At all.

Edited January 21, 2016 by SonofaBiscuit

[dubbel zout]

I was annoyed that Kelsey had to have Liza Cyrano her speech. I'm fine with Liza being nervous, but it's not as if having to talk was a surprise. And seriously, she wrote it on her hand? Way to be professional. Ugh. 

 

Her dress cracked me up, as did the scene at the designers' showroom.

 

I have no problem with Charles, but I don't want him and Liza to get together while they work at the same company. The power differential is too great, and there's enough tension with Diana the way it is. She doesn't need another reason to snipe at Liza.

[Tara Ariano]

I don't agree that Liza getting together with Charles would mean he was "taking care of her." To me, they're potentially on much more equal footing as partners than she and Josh are.

[gesundheit]

I have no problem with Charles, but I don't want him and Liza to get together while they work at the same company. The power differential is too great, and there's enough tension with Diana the way it is. She doesn't need another reason to snipe at Liza.

I agree, he's the head honcho and she's an entry level admin. Not a match-up I'm comfortable with. 

 

Although seriously, how does one get that uber-wealthy in publishing in 2016? Am I forgetting something last season about his being an heir or something? I don't understand his Manhattan mansion.

[Mu Shu]

Solange Knowles at the Met Ball wearing Giles Deacon

She looks like she's being swallowed by a black hole.

[Julia]

I don't agree that Liza getting together with Charles would mean he was "taking care of her." To me, they're potentially on much more equal footing as partners than she and Josh are.

They are, potentially, but I'm a little uncomfortable with him flirting with the person he thinks she is.

Although seriously, how does one get that uber-wealthy in publishing in 2016? Am I forgetting something last season about his being an heir or something? I don't understand his Manhattan mansion.

Publishing is a popular vanity purchase for rich folks these days.

She looks like she's being swallowed by a black hole.

*golf claps*

Edited January 21, 2016 by Julia

[giovannif7]

My first thought was "Why is she wearing a giant burnt pancake?" Fugly doesn't begin to do it justice.

[rose711]

I was talking about their obvious wealth difference. Of course he will be paying her bills for basic living expenses. Is she even paying rent where she lives now? <br />I just hope the show isn't that obvious by having her end up with her rich bosses boss. It will be boring. Much better if she gets a real career going and finds someone else. Despite what the show says, there are single men in NYC.

[dubbel zout]

Charles is divorced, so he's single.

[rose711]

Yes, Charles is single. But Liz boss is all about how there aren't available men for women over 40. I really dislike that aspect of her character. The show needs a successful older woman who isn't horrible like the woman who blackmailed her and Lizs boss. Older business women are looking quite terrible next to their younger counterparts.

[lizturtle]

Mmmm, boss Charles. Yummmmm. Mariska Hargity is one lucky lady.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Why is Liza still Diana's assistant? Kelsey was told that as Millenial's EIC she could build her own team and she handpicked Liza. I assumed that meant Liza was an editor now, so shouldn't they have replaced her now? Maybe the Judith Leiber fan from season one could replace her, he'd love working for Diana. But in all seriousness, with the launch of a new imprint, wouldn't Liza as one of its founders have a lot more important tasks than drumming up numbers on a Fitbit? And shouldn't she and Kelsey have their own assistants now, or maybe just Kelsey? Editor in chief ain't no small potatoes.

[sleekandchic]

Peter Hermann's portrayal of Charles is like the coolest thing ever. He completely sells it to me.

There he is, two glasses of champagne* in hands, ready to bond a little with Liza ("Where's your young man?"/"I'm not sure there's still a young man.") Alas, the young man is back! I think a lesser, or, maybe, a more obvious, actor would have displayed a momentary flash of anger or jealousy or disappointment.

But Hermann maintains the smile, the facade, the manners. Even as he turns away, the smile remains. Kind of masterful cause you KNOW he was disappointed.

I liked that Josh was a bit insecure in Charles's presence. His height....plus, maybe, something else?

Kelsey getting her own imprint at a major house is ridiculous to me. But entertaining for sure!

_________

* Over the holidays, I attended a hipster party in Williamsburg. I was sipping a glass of champagne, and a fellow guest commented on it, how good the champagne tasted. Another guy snapped, but it's NOT champagne! It's sparkling wine! Only beverage from the Champagne region of France can be called champagne! O.m.g. Ya gotta be in the right frame of mind to manage some of these Younger-type lovelies. I myself just chugged a second glass of "sparkling wine!" :)

Edited January 22, 2016 by sleekandchic

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I can understand Josh not wanting to participate in Liza's lie. It makes sense. But yeah, it does seem pretty silly to have it be because he wants to live authentically or whatever. How about it's just awkward and weird?

I thought the same thing. I am trying to cut him some slack because I'm sure he is still feeling hurt and betrayed by Liza's lie. It's not just her age that she lied about. That lie created other lies and however small some of those were (about video games or music), it's unsettling to know someone has lied to you for months. So from that point of view, I can understand Josh being uncomfortable and still adjusting to the truth. But at the same time, it's almost like when someone finds out that their partner cheated on them. You need to sit down and think about how much damage this has done. Is it something you can forgive? Can you trust this person again? If the answer is no, then you need to just end things. If the answer is yes, you have to sit down and have a serious discussion about it. I know I'm taking this way too seriously when I'm obviously not supposed to.

 

I was also trying to figure out why Liza is still working for Diana if she's now on Kelsey's new imprint. Why doesn't Diana just get a new assistant?

 

How much do you want to bet that half of the mean comments posted about Kelsey were from that author she was sleeping with last season?

 

Considering what a weirdo Lauren's dad is, I'm wouldn't be surprised if her mom really did have that "ass play is the gateway to threeway" crocheted on a pillow somewhere. He is soooooo inappropriate and creepy.

 

Liza's comment about Dr. Dre reminded me of this classic scene:

https://youtu.be/F0qYmHMoLvM?t=1m20s

[Texasmom1970]

Mmmm, boss Charles. Yummmmm. Mariska Hargity is one lucky lady.

Yes she definitely is! To me the scene where Debi Mazar gave Josh the get your shit together speech was my favorite part of the episode! I so love her!

[Mabinogia]

I thought the same thing. I am trying to cut him some slack because I'm sure he is still feeling hurt and betrayed by Liza's lie. It's not just her age that she lied about. That lie created other lies and however small some of those were (about video games or music), it's unsettling to know someone has lied to you for months.

 

The biggest parts of the lie where she was married before and has a daughter. Those are not small lies and it is a lot for a 26 year old guy to take in. I like Josh a lot and hope they stop trying to dumb him down because, despite all the lies, despite her being OMG OLD!!!! he is still into her and still willing to have a relationship with her. He didn't act like that guy at the bar and scurry away in disgust.

 

If I had to choose between Charles and Josh at this moment, I'd go with Josh. Charles comes off slightly pervy to me, ogling a 26 year old girl he thinks has a boyfriend and who works for him. I'm just not a fan. Oddly, while I found him hot when her first got there, I'm finding him almost as desperate now as Diana (I wish they would cut that out!) and not at all attractive anymore.

 

I'm also bordering on over the show as a whole. They are all acting way too slapstick/sitcom stupid for me.

[dubbel zout]

But Hermann maintains the smile, the facade, the manners. Even as he turns away, the smile remains. Kind of masterful cause you KNOW he was disappointed.

 

I like that Josh didn't go into a proprietary stance with Liza when Charles returned. And Charles didn't try to undercut him somehow.

 

How long is it going to take Kelsey to dump her loser? He's terrible. Amusing to watch, but terrible.

[snorca]

 

If I had to choose between Charles and Josh at this moment, I'd go with Josh. Charles comes off slightly pervy to me, ogling a 26 year old girl he thinks has a boyfriend and who works for him. I'm just not a fan. Oddly, while I found him hot when her first got there, I'm finding him almost as desperate now as Diana (I wish they would cut that out!) and not at all attractive anymore.

I agree with this. I DO like the Charles character but he doesn't know what we, the audience, know - Liza is his age. But even if he did know that, she would still have a boyfriend and work for him. I like Josh and Liza together and I am so afraid the show is trying to make him all stupid and try to drive them apart. I think they have chemistry in spades. And stop making Diana so crazy! She's coming of as a caricature.

[Hanahope]

That dress really was the worst.

 

I think Charles is a bit attracted to Liza, but he doesn't seem to be the type that would really 'put the moves' on her, he comes off as a pretty decent guy.  He just is apparently interested in younger women, like the dentist, and not more 'age appropriate' women like Diana.  I also think that what Charles really likes about Liza is not what he thinks is her age, but how she seems so much more mature than other people who are 26.  So to his mind, he's seeing an attractive 'younger' woman, who comes across as a peer.

 

I think the only reason Liza is still Diane's assistant is because it keeps Diane in the show.

 

Good thing Debi got Josh to understand that sometimes small lies are ok.  The main concern I'd have is for Josh's roommate to spill the beans at the wrong time.

[bilgistic]

I've never seen anyone dress like like the women on this show are, it's bizarre.

Allow me to direct your attention to another Darren Star show, Sex and the City. Edited January 23, 2016 by bilgistic

[VartanFan]

The Charles - Liza thing reminds me of Never Been Kissed....where Michael Vartan is creeped out and angry that he/himself found Drew Barrymore's character attractive....because she's supposed to be his underage student.  SHE always knew that they were both adults and is like...so what?  But he didn't.  Charles doesn't come across as pervy to me.  

[Julia]

I don't think he's a pervert for being attracted to someone younger any more than she is. I think the head of the company probably shouldn't be flirting with the young entry-level employee any more than he should be asking her to provide childcare. The power differential is too great.

[Snarklepuss]

I don't think Charles was going to do anything other than mildly flirt with Liza.  He seems to get the fact that she is in the "forbidden zone" and given what he said to her when she showed up at his doorstep in the previous episode, I think he's smart enough to realize that crossing over that line would get them both in trouble.  I've been mildly flirted with by bosses and it's never amounted to anything, and in most cases I'm sure it wasn't intended as anything but idle flattery.  I think sometimes people flirt because it's "safe".  I'm sure Charles wishes there was a way to make a relationship with Liza OK but I don't think he would actively try to make it happen knowing all the reasons why it would not be OK.

 

That said, I still think the show is going to try to make something happen between Charles and Liza and try to change their situations so both of them feel OK for that to happen.  So I predict that "on again/off again Josh" will become completely off for a while plus some changes might happen with Liza's or Charles' work situations to throw them together.  Charles is kind of like "Big" to Josh's "Aidan".  There are women who are partial to one of them but usually never both.  Because of the premise of the show I can see Liza ending up with Josh, but I was always a "Big" fan myself, so I'm partial to the mature guys in suits, what can I say?

[Snarklepuss]

Peter Hermann's portrayal of Charles is like the coolest thing ever. He completely sells it to me.

There he is, two glasses of champagne* in hands, ready to bond a little with Liza ("Where's your young man?"/"I'm not sure there's still a young man.") Alas, the young man is back! I think a lesser, or, maybe, a more obvious, actor would have displayed a momentary flash of anger or jealousy or disappointment.

But Hermann maintains the smile, the facade, the manners. Even as he turns away, the smile remains. Kind of masterful cause you KNOW he was disappointed.

I liked that Josh was a bit insecure in Charles's presence. His height....plus, maybe, something else?

 

Well we know one thing now about Charles and that's that he's a class act.  Being that smooth is never boring.  I am waiting for something really unexpected but very interesting to come out of him.  That would make him even more attractive.

 

On another note, I just love Lauren's family in spite of the over-the-top pervy dad.  They are so back home/NY to me.  It's hard for me to describe it but to me they are authentically quirky and weird and something I miss about NY.

 

 

I think Charles is a bit attracted to Liza, but he doesn't seem to be the type that would really 'put the moves' on her, he comes off as a pretty decent guy.  He just is apparently interested in younger women, like the dentist, and not more 'age appropriate' women like Diana.  I also think that what Charles really likes about Liza is not what he thinks is her age, but how she seems so much more mature than other people who are 26.  So to his mind, he's seeing an attractive 'younger' woman, who comes across as a peer.

 

ITA.  I actually think Charles would still like Liza even if he knew her real age and wouldn't act all immature about it if he found out.  It might even intrigue him more because he could have "the best of both worlds" in his mind with her.  Let's face it, Diana looks and acts every bit her age - In other words a total frump.  That's why Charles looks right past her.  It's not so much her age but the image she projects that he's attracted to in Liza.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Winston Wolfe]

 

This season..... oh boy.  The Josh mess is so convoluted it makes me too incoherent to comment on.  There's no organic conflict..  I don't know what's going on anymore.

 

Josh says he has to live an "honest life" but then deliberately hides what Debi Mazar is doing with the apartment from Liza?  Barf me a river.  He's so immature this season out of nowhere.

I didn't find Josh particularly interesting in Season One, and he's not getting any better here. Re: Charles, Liza and the "Big Lie," as this show goes on, Darren Starr will have an interesting problem on his hands.  To me, Liza looks more like a 40-year old than she did last season.  As another poster said, there's something about her presence and body language, nothing about the character says "26."   And despite Sutton Foster's incredible genes and smoking hot body, I'm not sure how long the show can work this angle, suspension of disbelief aside.  Maybe that why Liza is feeling more and more compelled to tell Kelsey the truth?

Edited January 26, 2016 by Winston Wolfe

[dubbel zout]

Let's face it, Diana looks and acts every bit her age - In other words a total frump.  That's why Charles looks right past her.  It's not so much her age but the image she projects that he's attracted to in Liza.

 

I disagree about Diana being a frump. I think she's dressing in a very appropriate way for both her age and her professional stature. The image she projects to me is one of desperation, and that's what's turning Charles off—if he thinks about Diana in any other way than as a colleague, which I'm not sure he does.

 

I'm not sure how long the show can work this angle, suspension of disbelief aside.

 

The key to telling the secret successfully, IMO, is making Liza so indispensable at work that her real age won't make a difference. There will still be some fallout, of course, but if she's proven herself, the fact that she's 14 years older than she originally claimed shouldn't matter anymore. She's proven she can handle everything they've thrown at her. How quickly the show decides to do that will be interesting, because I don't think the premise can be sustained forever.

 

Whatever happens, Liza should never wear diaper pants again.

[Mabinogia]

From a strictly TV show standpoint in the Charles vs Josh debate. Charles can stay on the show, since he is Liza's boss even if they don't date. If she stops dating Josh, then where does Josh fit into the show? I would hope they wouldn't stick him with her daughter. That would be gross. Josh is pretty. I don't want to not see him every week.

 

One thing that just dawned on me though as I was thinking I'd like to see Diane get her man is that it is just as wrong for Charles to date Diane, his subordinate, as it would be for him to date Liza, his subordinate's subordinate. That's the trouble with TV shows. It's hard not to eat where you shit since their world is so very small.

[VartanFan]

I think it would be kind of cool if Charles is the next/only office worker who knows the truth about LIza.  He now knows that she's critical to keeping Kelsey's head on right - - and the success of Melennial.  

[Snarklepuss]

I disagree about Diana being a frump. I think she's dressing in a very appropriate way for both her age and her professional stature. The image she projects to me is one of desperation, and that's what's turning Charles off—if he thinks about Diana in any other way than as a colleague, which I'm not sure he does.

 

Sorry I still disagree, I think Diana's wardrobe is deliberately working against her sexual attractiveness.  Granted, she's dressing better this season since she lost the severe up-do, the huge shoulder pads and the outrageous statement necklaces (which almost felt like a joke to me), but it's still not working for her, IMO.  I think the actress herself could look stunning if she were dressed properly, but then again I'm not a big fan of Patricia Field's work at best.  Diana's wardrobe feels caricature-like to me, to go along with her caricature-like personality.  I'm 57, likely at least a decade younger than Diana's character but I would feel older in her wardrobe!  I agree that her personality is her worst accessory, though!

 

ETA:  I also think the show is attempting to do as much as possible to create perceptual age distance between Liza and Diana to make a 26 year old Liza more believable.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

For me Diana's wardrobe strikes me less as frumpy and more new money. She comes off as a woman who's always had a taste for the finer things in life but has had to work her ass off to enjoy them, so now she wears big jewelry and designer power suits to show off that she can afford them. I could actually easily picture Samantha from SATC rocking a lot of Diana's wardrobe because she was the same way. I also think her updos were way too sculpted and polished to be "dowdy". Much like the rest of Patricia Fields' oeuvre, they were artful but unflattering.

I don't think her dating Charles would be the same as Liza. Yes, she's also his subordinate, but she's at the executive level and the head of marketing. Her career is made and Imperical is deeply dependent on her. Liza is a nobody and Charles is at the point where he could make or break her. Waaaaaaayy too much of a power differential and that's irrespective of her age. Diana just needs to dial down the needy and be more of herself--the woman who rescues her drunk friend from becoming a spectacle and drops nearly two grand to keep her assistant from defaulting on student loans. I'm willing to bet if she showed that side more often, Charles would not only be interested, he'd have major competition.

[Snarklepuss]

For me Diana's wardrobe strikes me less as frumpy and more new money. She comes off as a woman who's always had a taste for the finer things in life but has had to work her ass off to enjoy them, so now she wears big jewelry and designer power suits to show off that she can afford them. I could actually easily picture Samantha from SATC rocking a lot of Diana's wardrobe because she was the same way. I also think her updos were way too sculpted and polished to be "dowdy". Much like the rest of Patricia Fields' oeuvre, they were artful but unflattering.

 

Samantha's character could make a paper bag look sexy - They'd have to try harder to make Diana's character look tastefully sexy, IMO.  The wardrobe is specifically tailored to the character and the actress playing her, I think.  I don't see Diana's wardrobe as realistic, just as I don't see most of what Patricia Field comes out with realistic for any character even on SATC.  I'm a native New Yorker, know the typical wardrobe of the professional woman and I'm just not buying it with Diana.  She is a little too much and intentionally so, IMO.  Plus, any woman with any ounce of sense who was looking for a relationship at her age would know not to dress like that.  I think the point is that Diana lacks that sense.  I think the implied lesson of Diana versus Liza is that dressing (and acting) younger can land you the guy.  Dressing what some people would consider "age appropriate" may not.  JMHO.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[penelope79]

 

Well we know one thing now about Charles and that's that he's a class act.  Being that smooth is never boring.  I am waiting for something really unexpected but very interesting to come out of him.  That would make him even more attractive.

 

On another note, I just love Lauren's family in spite of the over-the-top pervy dad.  They are so back home/NY to me.  It's hard for me to describe it but to me they are authentically quirky and weird and something I miss about NY.

 

 

 

ITA.  I actually think Charles would still like Liza even if he knew her real age and wouldn't act all immature about it if he found out.  It might even intrigue him more because he could have "the best of both worlds" in his mind with her.  Let's face it, Diana looks and acts every bit her age - In other words a total frump.  That's why Charles looks right past her.  It's not so much her age but the image she projects that he's attracted to in Liza.

 

I also think that Charles will soon learn about Liza’s real age and that: 1. It will happen before anything romantic develops between them and 2. He’ll keep her secret. It would be a situation that will help them bonding without necessarily pair them up right away, and it would allow Charles to feel less “guilty” he’s liking someone quite younger. In any case, he looks at her like he suspects something (although not necessarily that she’s hiding her age).

Anyway, I like him and how is portrayed and I honestly think that he has much more chemistry with Liza than Josh. For me it’s so obvious that they really don’t have anything in common, to the point that I wonder why TPTB want to keep them together while, at the same time, they point us out their relationship clearly has an expiration date.

[Lion]

I hope Charles isn't portrayed as feeling less guilty for flirting with her just because she's 40.  Whether she's 17 or 70, she's still basically an intern and Charles still exists in an extreme position of power over her.  Though, likely that's why they have the millenial imprint, so that eventually Liza can move over to it full time with a contract that places her in a more equal professional footing.  

[Ailianna]

I'm 57, likely at least a decade younger than Diana's character

 

Unless that's a MAJOR typo, no.  You're about a decade and a half OLDER than Diana.  She's supposed to be essentially corporate Liza, and she's right about 40.  I think she could have a little looser style, since she's still wanting clearly to be fashionable, but I think she's not quite got the touch for it. As someone up above said.  However, for those thinking she should dress at work to heighten her sex appeal--I'm of that age, and I don't think it's appropriate to dress for WORK trying to be sexy.  I think Diana has that idea too, that she should be professional and competent (and I think the social media thing is making her insecure because she isn't the master of it that the younglings are), and that he should appreciate that, and then notice her attractiveness.  Not the other way around.

[Julia]

I think maybe the problem with Diana's clothes (in this context, because I think she dresses fine for a corporate officer) is that she's fashionable but not stylish. The younger women (and by extension Liza, who buys at the same thrift shops) are stylish and fashion forward, which apparently means wearing plaid diaper covers and bathmats with armholes to work.

I think it's generational, although Diana behaves more like my mother's generation of working women than the one she's supposed to belong to. Diana thinks to succeed you have to look like an executive, and Kelsey thinks you have to look like whatever a baller is this week. Otherwise, they're a lot alike. They're both serious about their jobs, and Imperical gave both of them their jobs because they were on trend when they were hired.

And I think Diana should get some credit for being pretty openminded about letting her admin work on other projects. If Charles thinks Kelsey should be able to poach staff, he should create a position under Kelsey and let Diana hire an admin.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I don't think Kelsey is poaching staff. Liza's an assistant with an impressive résumé. Assistant jobs in a place like Empirical are supposed to be temporary--Diana even said so to Liza last season. They need to give Diana a new assistant or have her reference one in passing. She's head of marketing, that still gives her plenty of interaction with Kelsey and Liza without needing to be Liza's boss.

[Snarklepuss]

Unless that's a MAJOR typo, no.  You're about a decade and a half OLDER than Diana.  She's supposed to be essentially corporate Liza, and she's right about 40.  I think she could have a little looser style, since she's still wanting clearly to be fashionable, but I think she's not quite got the touch for it. As someone up above said.  However, for those thinking she should dress at work to heighten her sex appeal--I'm of that age, and I don't think it's appropriate to dress for WORK trying to be sexy.  I think Diana has that idea too, that she should be professional and competent (and I think the social media thing is making her insecure because she isn't the master of it that the younglings are), and that he should appreciate that, and then notice her attractiveness.  Not the other way around.

 

Interesting, that only proves to me that she looks older because I didn't even know that.  I keep saying I think that's intentionally done by the show to create perceptual age distance between her and Liza.  I'm not kidding when I say I could pass for Diana's sister.  I think they go out of their way to make her look older.  Most 40 year olds I know would not be caught dead in a lot of the stuff they dress her in.  And there are ways to dress to look attractive to the opposite sex without sacrificing professionalism or "work appropriateness" or making a person look like an older caricature.  I see it in the corporate world all the time, and that's just about the most conservative office environment out there.  It's about an image not skin or sluttiness, it's about choosing the right shapes, colors, etc. that most flatter a person and owning it with body language.  I think they're dressing Diana for the character she's playing, a little desperate, trying too hard to look in control and powerful, and missing the mark.  And that's how I see her wardrobe too.   Speaking of Samantha, she was supposed to be a decade older than Diana and although I could see her wearing some of Diana's outfits she WAS a decade older, plus her body language would have changed the audience's perception of some of those outfits.  What can I say?  YMMV.

[Julia]

That's true, but currently Kelsey has someone who's being paid to be Diana's admin working for her instead, which means the work Kelsey has Liza doing is going on someone else's budget. So yeah, I think she's poaching. Which makes little sense, since Charles said she could have anyone she wanted, and surely the head of her own imprint rates her own admin.

[Snarklepuss]

I think maybe the problem with Diana's clothes (in this context, because I think she dresses fine for a corporate officer) is that she's fashionable but not stylish. The younger women (and by extension Liza, who buys at the same thrift shops) are stylish and fashion forward, which apparently means wearing plaid diaper covers and bathmats with armholes to work.

I think it's generational, although Diana behaves more like my mother's generation of working women than the one she's supposed to belong to. Diana thinks to succeed you have to look like an executive, and Kelsey thinks you have to look like whatever a baller is this week. Otherwise, they're a lot alike. They're both serious about their jobs, and Imperical gave both of them their jobs because they were on trend when they were hired.

 

I actually think Diana is attempting to be stylish but she's trying to follow some kind of age-related trendiness.  The younger women are following the trends aimed at younger women.  The most trendy/faddish stuff out there is usually not worn by women over 40.  But that's OK, I think Diana can still do that and not look as old as they're making her look.  I think they are doing subtle things with her to make her seem older just like the subtle things they're doing with Liza to make her look younger.  Dressing Diana in head to toe black turtle neck and tights in the way she was wearing it just screamed older to me, what can I say?  I'd never wear that if I worked with a bunch of millennials and didn't want them to poke fun at me.  Also, Diana is not dressing like any executive I've ever seen, and I've been working with them for 35 years.  She's in an artsy business so the wardrobe is a little more flamboyant than in most large offices.  That plus Patricia Field seems to take "artistic license" with the wardrobe choices because she didn't dress the SATC women like any women I've ever seen in NY, except perhaps for Miranda.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[aradia22]

 

Although seriously, how does one get that uber-wealthy in publishing in 2016? Am I forgetting something last season about his being an heir or something? I don't understand his Manhattan mansion.

His dad was also a publisher so maybe we're supposed to assume he's part of some publishing empire legacy from back when publishing made money?

[Julia]

His dad was also a publisher so maybe we're supposed to assume he's part of some publishing empire legacy from back when publishing made money?

 

My impression was that he sold it to some zillionaire who was trying to look cultured and stayed on because zillionaires aren't interested in publishing. Although he could just have inherited. Carly Simon's dad was the Simon in Simon and Schuster, and they apparently did very well.