S06.E03: Season 6, Episode 3

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Mr Carson and Mrs Hughes' wedding is fast approaching, but a misunderstanding threatens to derail the occasion, and when the big day arrives it also brings a few unexpected guests. Meanwhile, Edith reconnects with an old acquaintance, who comes to her aid in her hour of need, and over at the Dower House, Spratt has something to hide, meaning Denker is hot on his trail. Daisy jumps to conclusions over one of the countess's plots, and tensions mount over the hospital takeover, prompting Isobel to offend a friend.

[Andorra]

Finally the episode I've been waiting for! I can't wait to see

Tom's handsome, nice face

on my TV scree again!!!!!

[minamurray78]

Oh joy of joys Denker and Spratt at it again I can hardly wait.

 

This is the latest season, isn't it?

[Lived In Inch]

I don't exactly know why but I am quite pissed off by Tom's reappearance. I am a Branson fan. I've lived through his two years mopping around asking should he stay or should he go. And I've mourned his departure. I've imagined his life in Boston with Sybbie in his flat and his garden. I've lived spoiler free as I've no idea that Fellowes was planning to bring him back. I am mad. Maybe because it stole some of Mr and Mrs Carson thunder on their big day. And because I spent a whole year making myself ready to not see Allen Leech's face only to have him reappear after the third episode? He better not leave again.

[Kirsty]

I was pleased to see Edith firing the troublesome editor, rolling up her sleeves and editing the issue herself, agreeing to a drink with a nice single man, and achieving something by getting the magazine out on time. Her father even cheered her when she returned to Downton! Edith is basically the Sansa Stark of Downton Abbey, so watching her take some decisive action that led to success was a delightful surprise.

 

I also liked the interlude with Thomas and the potential new employer. It was a nice way to show us how times have changed for the big houses. I particularly liked the way the old lord refused to see that things would never go back to the way they were. If Thomas had been sympathetic and understanding it wouldn't have been so effective, but naturally he was more concerned with his own future.

 

I hope Branson gets a decent storyline this season, and he isn't back just to hang around like a spare part.

[MissLucas]

I always expected Branson to come back - but I'm wondering if he's going to join the race for Lady Mary's hand or not. My money's on 'Yes, he will and he probably wins' He's basically the only person on the show in whose presence Lady Mary behaves like a decent human being. But I realize that a lot of folks find that pairing icky so maybe Sir Julian will not go there. Of course you have to wonder why he brought Tom back in the first place.

 

That was an odd episode with many people behaving out of character. Edith finally showed some back-bone (horray), that was a nice surprise. But both Cora and Isobel suddenly throwing hissy fits felt contrived. At least Cora apologized properly, Cousin Isobel on the other hand was left off the hook way too easily. The whole hospital drama isn't really working and I wish they would just get over with it. The same goes for the Spratt and Denker drama. And Daisy's wailing about 'poor Mr Mason'.

 

The best bit was probably Thomas' interview with Lord Barmy. But that was about it.

[Andorra]

Well I knew Tom was going to be back early in the series, but I hoped we would have a time jump so that is trip to America at least would make a LITTLE bit of sense. As it is it makes him look a total loser and I'm mad about this. He moped around for 2 seasons, saying "I don't belong here" when everyone could SEE that he belonged there and then he went and came back barely 3 months later with a cheesy speech. 

 

That said: I'm glad he's back, because without him the show is nothing to me. But he better gets a good storyline now! I hope Fellows doesn't think bringing him back and smile happily will be all that is to say about Tom Branson!

 

The wedding was nice. I'm still not a fan of it, but as long as it keeps the fans happy. It was also nice to see Anna not crying for a whole episode. Thank you, Fellows!

 

I love Mary this series. Next week we'll see Talbot. I'm already sick of that storyline before it even began. I wish Tom was the one, but I know he isn't.

 

I thought Cora being so nasty to Mrs Hughes was completely out of character.

 

I haven't forgiven Edith for last week, but Bertie Pelham is lovely. Does she deserve a sweet man like this? I'm trying to be generous.

 

What is the matter with Daisy??? Is she nuts?!!!

[NextIteration]

What is the matter with Daisy??? Is she nuts?!!!

 

It seems so!

 

I was totally unspoiled as to any aspects of this season so I  clapped, grinned like a fool and shouted Sybbie! when I saw Tom.

 

I can't believe this is the last season of my beloved favorite show.

[vendredi3]

Maybe it was the wine I'd had with dinner, but this episode made me very happy! Edith realizing her purpose; a wedding in the household; the return of Tom!

This was the best episode since they killed off Matthew.

[foreverevolving]

Well Tom's back was disappointing. I love him, and I'm all for realizing where home is (being an immigrant myself), but I really wanted him to stay around for a little bit longer and give it a real go.. it feels like he's only been there not even 6 months, he's not even done adjusting! i've been in the US for 4 years now and I am still adjusting! 6 months is nothing.

 

I loved Edith getting her groove and confidence on. I loved how jealous Mary was seeing Robert give loving attention to Edith and at the same time Cora was sort of ignoring her too. I found Mary not going after Cora to ask her if she would mind giving a jacket to Ms. Hughes very lazy of her (it was obviously done simply for plot reasons), but it caused too much havoc.. and i was annoyed when she later went and talked to her, literally putting the blame on this all mass on Cora!! "Hey Mary next time don't volunteer your moms clothes before asking her! and if you do make sure to let her know!!
Mary is the Laurel (Arrow) of Downton Abbey, and I am sick of her as I am of Laurel, she rarely if ever takes responsibility for her actions.

 

I will be awfully pissed if Tom ends up with Mary, please no sister swapping on any of the shows I watch!! Also he deserves better. 

It looks like Gwen is back next episode.. maybe? didn't she leave Downton because she got a better position in the city? as a secretary or something like that?

self made woman, as much as possible for those times. I can see her as someone Tom would end up with.

 

Can I say how much I miss Isis?

 

and poor Thomas!! I feel bad for him, I know alot of it is his own doing for everything he's done- but i feel bad for him, I like him, and he's lonely.

 

ETA: because that was one too many "bad for him"

Edited October 5, 2015 by foreverevolving

[MissLucas]

What is the matter with Daisy??? Is she nuts?!!!

Like everybody else she assumed she was going to inherit a farm, the sudden realization that it was a tenancy broke her fragile mind for good!

[Brn2bwild]

Like everybody else she assumed she was going to inherit a farm, the sudden realization that it was a tenancy broke her fragile mind for good!

 

Damn she's dumb, then.  I knew he was a tenant farmer from the episode he was introduced.  Even yeoman farmers in that society were tenants.  She's lived on that estate for over a decade.  She should know how things are structured.

[Glade]

The best part of the episode was the last few minutes, with Tom (but he is starting to resemble Robert, he keeps gaining more weight every year) and in the preview for next week,

Gwen!!

  Otherwise, I found this intensely soporific.  I can't stand the bone-dry, drab dramas about the hospital (apparently it's still not over!) and Spratt/Dencker.  I also couldn't muster any excitement about the incredibly long buildup to the wedding; if they had just had it in episode one, then it might have been less tedious. 

 

That scene where Thomas interviewed for the 'job,' was super-creepy, I was half-expecting the Duke to pop up or for the owner to reveal he was also homosexual.  I don't share JF's nostalgia for this idiotic way of life, so I really don't care if the estates survive or not.  It was also disappointing as hell that Thomas said he was only looking for jobs locally...I want these people to find a better life elsewhere!   I want Thomas to find love before he winds up like Carson!

Edited October 5, 2015 by Glade

[CofCinci]

Chekhov's indigestion.  The series/era ends with Robert's death, I imagine.  The hospital storyline must tie in with all of that.

[ichbin]

Chekhov's indigestion.  The series/era ends with Robert's death, I imagine.  The hospital storyline must tie in with all of that.

I'm afraid you're probably correct.  The references to Robert's "indigestion" seem  pretty much the same as references to Isis acting off  in the episodes leading up to the dog's death.  I have enjoyed the series but the storytelling does seem to follow the same tracks over and over.

Edited October 5, 2015 by ichbin

[Llywela]

Damn she's dumb, then.  I knew he was a tenant farmer from the episode he was introduced.  Even yeoman farmers in that society were tenants.  She's lived on that estate for over a decade.  She should know how things are structured.

The OP was being sarcastic. Like you and me, Daisy would have known the farm was a tenancy from the start. Her problem isn't that she resents losing an inheritance, but that she is very concerned for Mr Mason because he is losing the farm he has worked all his life, a farm that's been in his family for generations, and Daisy tends to be very single-minded, so when she focuses on a problem like that it clouds her judgement. (Nice though to know that at least someone is upset for a person who has to leave a farm their family has worked for generations! I'm still annoyed about the Drewes). She is especially upset because she blames herself for Mr Mason losing his farm, because there was a teeny tiny chance the new owner might have been persuaded to keep him on, only she blew it by ranting at them. She then set all her hopes on Cora doing something to help, a not unreasonable hope because Cora did tell her she had an idea and to leave it with her - and then, it seems from this episode, promptly forgot all about it and did nothing after all. So Daisy and Cora are basically at cross-purposes in this episode: Daisy has taken Cora at her word, believes her capable of saving the day, and took Mr Molesely's encouragement too far, jumping to conclusions as usual, while Cora seems to have forgotten that she ever made any promise at all and clearly hasn't done a thing. It's a storyline that demonstrates the vast gulf that exists between the classes still - something that means so much to Daisy, that will affect an old man's entire future, is completely forgettable and unimportant to Cora.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Llywela

[TyranAmiros]

Daisy also wants it settled now, now, NOW! while Cora doesn't see the same sort of urgency Daisy does.

It's only getting a lot of story because it's part of the end of the Great Estates--remember that Downton already started removing tenants in Series 3 (Matthew's idea) and Tom and Mary continued this modernization into Series 4-5. Given the general weakness of agricultural prices during the era, it's questionable whether the new landlords would keep any tenants on in the traditional positions anyway. Robert's been doing it because, well, it's Robert. But a Mary and Tom-led Downton probably won't have the same qualms about modernizing.

I actually really liked this episode, but I'm just a fan of episodes with less Anna/Bates.

[MissLucas]

I still think Mr Mason being a tenant farmer is a retcon and I'm not alone. There was never any mention of a tenancy or the farm being part of an estate prior to this season. Nobody ever expressed any doubts about Daisy inheriting the farm under those conditions - which was highly unrealistic. But let's roll with it anyway. If Daisy knew that it was a tenancy then she had to know how the system works. And that Mr Mason would sooner or later - due to his age - get into trouble because he has no successor.

 

She had about 7 years to think and prepare for the day Mr Mason could no longer hold the farm (either due to age, illness or termination of the tenancy). If she had been serious about getting the farm she would have left Downton to learn everything about farm-work (Ms Bunting's lessons covered book-keeping and socialism and Mr Moseley's lessons cover history)  and realistically she would have had to get married. Had Mr Mason been able to present a young couple to take over the farm the new owners may have acted differently.

 

But of course it's easier to present the new owners who have taken over a run-down estate and who will have to make drastic changes in order to escape the fate of their predecessors as heartless monsters who could not even be swayed by a the wailings of an assistant cook.

 

The irony here is of course that despite all her moaning about the 'system' when push comes to shove Daisy relies on the 'system' i.e. her ladyship to right all wrongs. And this being Downton Abbey Cora will of course come through. Mr Mason gets the lease of Yew Tree farm where he can toil away through old age while his daughter-in-law studies socialism while working for a peer.

[Llywela]

I still think Mr Mason being a tenant farmer is a retcon and I'm not alone. There was never any mention of a tenancy or the farm being part of an estate prior to this season. Nobody ever expressed any doubts about Daisy inheriting the farm under those conditions - which was highly unrealistic.

I think this is probably a cultural gap. I never doubted that the farm was held on a tenancy basis, because I know that's how the system worked. A tenancy would be passed down from father to son in the same way that freehold is - the same family might work a farm for generations without ever owning it outright. It would be rare for someone of William's social standing to come from a family that actually owned their own land (and worth remembering that Mr Mason encouraged William to go into service instead of staying on the farm, because he thought his son would have better opportunities that way; if William was due to inherit land, rather than just a tenancy, he'd never have done that). But someone who doesn't know that aspect of social history might presume the farm was owned not rented, because it wasn't clearly stated.

 

It isn't unrealistic for Daisy to inherit the tenancy. She is the widow of Mr Mason's only son, therefore his heir by default. The bigger question mark over the story is what she thought she was going to do with it, given that she is a cook with no farming experience (to be honest, I don't think she ever really wanted the farm, she just liked having a sense of family and belonging, and her upset now is for Mr Mason, not her own future) - and whether or not Mr Mason has been actively working the farm all alone all these years, or does he have hired help who also stand to lose out?

Edited October 5, 2015 by Llywela

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved how everyone in the household was rallying to make the wedding a special day for Carson and Mrs. Hughes. Normally I get a little annoyed when the Crawleys get too involved with the servants (mostly because the Crawleys are in a position of power as their employers so it puts the servants in a difficult spot), but I appreciated that everyone was sincerely trying to help (Cora's hissyfit notwithstanding). I think the fact that the Crawleys and the staff were talking to each other so much about the wedding was another sign of how much things have changed since S1, from Mrs. Patmore and Cora to Anna and Mary.

 

I am sooooooooooo bored with the hospital drama. This is the last season and we are wasting so much time on this pointless plotline.

 

LOVED Edith finally firing that pompous editor of hers. Even better, Audrey immediately told her good riddance as soon as he walked out the door.

 

Even though the little kids aren't great actors (not that I blame them since they're so young), it was cute to see the cousin reunion of Sybbie, George, and Marigold.

 

I, too, liked Branson but was strangely annoyed by his return. I think it was a combination of the fact that he JUST LEFT and the fact that he popped back in at someone else's wedding. And I don't mean that in a bridezilla "but it's THEIR day" kind of way either.

[MissLucas]

I think this is probably a cultural gap. I never doubted that the farm was held on a tenancy basis, because I know that's how the system worked. A tenancy would be passed down from father to son in the same way that freehold is - the same family might work a farm for generations without ever owning it outright.

Oh, I'm pretty familiar with the system (there's even a term for it in German but I could never find the English equivalent) but the show never presented Mr Mason's farm in that manner. And it would still be unrealistic for Daisy to inherit the farm even if the lease were tied to the family. As shown by the termination of the lease by the new owners it was apparently not heavily regulated. Daisy's widow-status is tenuous at best, no way she could expect the tenure as a single woman with no farming experience - the best she could hope for was a good offer for stock and equipment (according to the DA wiki those are owned by Mr Mason so even if the lease is terminated he's not without assets).

 

And good question how Mr Mason was running the farm so far all on his own. I wondered about that too. And has anybody considered that the Drewes and Mr Mason swapping farms means Lady Mary will lose her specialist pig-keeper since the pigs belong to the estate? Does Mr Mason know how those delicate creatures? Nobody seems to have asked her if she was okay with that. And knowing Lady Mary she's not.

 

I don't think the show will ever address those issues as the whole plot seems to revolve around Daisy's socialist awakening and how everything's changing and the good old times are over. (Conveniently forgetting that Mary and Tom had also intended to kick the Drewes off their farm because Mr Drewe could not pay off his father debts. Just like the evil new owners of Mr Mason's farm they were little concerned with the Drewes being on the farm since Waterloo.)

[Llywela]

I imagine Mr Mason just presumed he'd be able to pass the farm onto Daisy because he's an old man for whom life has never really changed that much - he inherited the farm from his father, who inherited it from his father before him, so he automatically thinks of that tenancy passing down to the next generation, which in the absence of William is Daisy. I really doubt he'd thought it through any deeper than that. This is how it has always been, so he never questioned that this is how it would always be. He wanted to make a gesture to Daisy, because she is all he has left of William, and it never occurred to him for a moment that it could be taken away (or how the practicalities might work). So long as he kept the farm working profitably, he never imagined the tenancy might be cancelled - the entire estate being sold would have seemed inconceivable.

 

So far as Daisy moaning about the system while also leaning on it goes, that seems only too realistic to me. She might rail against the system, but she is also trapped within it, it's the only way she knows to even try to get help.

[CofCinci]

How long has Tom been gone according to series time?

[MissLucas]

He left in January 1925. Not sure where the show is currently within the year but it's still 1925. Last week's episode suggest we're in late summer/early autumn.

[kpw801]

I imagine Mr Mason just presumed he'd be able to pass the farm onto Daisy because he's an old man for whom life has never really changed that much - he inherited the farm from his father, who inherited it from his father before him, so he automatically thinks of that tenancy passing down to the next generation, which in the absence of William is Daisy. I really doubt he'd thought it through any deeper than that. This is how it has always been, so he never questioned that this is how it would always be. He wanted to make a gesture to Daisy, because she is all he has left of William, and it never occurred to him for a moment that it could be taken away (or how the practicalities might work). So long as he kept the farm working profitably, he never imagined the tenancy might be cancelled - the entire estate being sold would have seemed inconceivable.

 

So far as Daisy moaning about the system while also leaning on it goes, that seems only too realistic to me. She might rail against the system, but she is also trapped within it, it's the only way she knows to even try to get help.

The show did mention from the outset that the farm was a tenancy.  When Mr. Mason told Daisy he wanted to leave the farm to her he assured her that because she was "liked" at the "big house" they would probably allow her to keep the tenancy and he would leave her the money he had "put by" as well as all of his farm tools and stock.

[Llywela]

The show did mention from the outset that the farm was a tenancy.  When Mr. Mason told Daisy he wanted to leave the farm to her he assured her that because she was "liked" at the "big house" they would probably allow her to keep the tenancy and he would leave her the money he had "put by" as well as all of his farm tools and stock.

Thanks - I was sure it must have come up, if only obliquely, but haven't rewatched the early seasons in a couple of years now. Interesting, though, because her being 'liked' at the big house implies that originally Mr Mason was conceived as a tenant of the Crawleys, whereas for plot reasons his farm is now on a different estate entirely.

[MissLucas]

Well, I stand corrected - it was in Season 3, Episode 4. Mr Mason was even lunatic enough to think they would hand the tenancy to single Daisy because she was well-liked at the big house. Not that we've seen much of that in the one episode Daisy and the Darnleys were on-screen together. She went straight for the jugular accusing them of ingratitude. I never had any dealings with aristocrats but I'm pretty sure that's not the best way to deal with them.

 

Daisy's almost complete lack of interest in the farm makes it hard to root for her now even if she's more acting out of concern for Mr Mason than self-interest. And it wouldn't hurt her to stop and think for once before acting.

Edited October 5, 2015 by MissLucas

[CofCinci]

Daisy didn't even like William.

[NorthstarATL]

Oh, Anna, of course Mr. Bates "put so much into it"! And that was the biology lesson for the episode! I LOVED Edith FINALLY doing what I'd been hoping for and finding her footing with the paper, rather than ousting the peasants who had raised her child! Mary's response was a little over the top, though. I know the sisters have been competitive forever, but I really thought that by the final season they'd mellow, and allow for each to have her own sort of success and happiness. Actually I thought that they had laid the groundwork after Sybil's death.

Too much of Tom's story with Mr. Bean's son seemed to have taken place offstage for me to care. I still am unclear as to why the Carsons couldn't have had both a local reception and a formal one at Downton, but I guess the drama was necessary. I was happy to see Tom and Sybbie, but I need to know more about why he's back. He hardly seems the sort who could not make a go of it elsewhere, and it's not in his nature to admit failure, unless I've read him wrong all this time.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

I dislike the hospital drama. But I wonder if Downtwon Abbey, the big house will be turned into a hospital in the end. Robert will die in a local hospital and they will honor him by making Downton an institution, the merged hospital . Hence the village gets fine modern medicine and the Dowager and Dr. Clarkson get to keep their top status as the patroness and medical director type thing......

Also, love Branson who looks a little heavier.

My favorite part was Anna smiling to acknowledge she was pg.

Good for Edith!

Loved Mary getting owned as my teen would say by Elsie Hughes pitching in the drawing room for HER wedding her way.

Spratt vs Denker? Nobody cares.

Do I interpret that the Drewes leaving is not a done deal yet? Cora seems to be all "wait and see" on that. I feel they were treated horribly.

All of a sudden this year there is too much co mingling of upstairs downstairs for me. The strict boundaries seem all gone all of a sudden .

I don't like Mary a bit. So full of herself .

Edited October 5, 2015 by Alonzo Mosely FBI

[Hecate7]

Daisy didn't even like William.

 

Yes, she did! She was very fond of him. She's the one who kissed him. She just wasn't madly, passionately in love with him. She didn't have the kind of crush on him she had on Thomas, and she didn't feel weak in the knees with him like she did for that boy who left and became a cook at a hotel. But she was so fond of William that she was willing to do a great deal to make him happy. She loved him. She just didn't lust after him.

[MissLucas]

Daisy liked William but she did not love him, maybe she could have had she been given time but she was never really allowed to process her feelings for him. I felt very uncomfortable watching Mrs Patmore basically bullying Daisy into this relationship. It was the one time I felt bad for Daisy - Mrs Patmore meant well but it was hard to watch nevertheless.

"Don't make me be false to a dying man" - was a pretty heart-wrenching line. In the end Daisy agreed to the marriage because it was a dying man's wish. I think her relationship with Mr Morgan has more emotional depth (of a non-romantic nature) than the one she had with his son.

[Kostgard]

I'm glad this is the final season, because my forehead is getting bruised from all the facepalming I have to do watching this show. I don't know why I keep waiting for it to get better.

 

To start out on a positive though, I do really appreciate that Fellowes allows his heroine to be kinda awful sometimes. The look of total dismay on Mary's face when Edith was showing Robert the magazine she and her potential boyfriend put together and Robert was singing her praises was classic. Mary just absolutely cannot stand it when Edith is winning. It's also kinda refreshing that while Carson adores Mary, Mrs. Hughes sees her only as the total snob that she is (of course Mary has positive qualities - she's very good to Anna and the scene where she was delighted over Anna's potential pregnancy was lovely - but I love that someone refuses to worship her).

 

I hope Edith moves to London full time and becomes a trailblazing female editor and totally famous. She's already got a potential boyfriend and an assistant who is clearly in her corner. I'd love to see her rock that and make Mary eat it.

 

I was happy to see Tom back, but then they showed the previews for the next episode where he's all, "I need to find my place outside of this house" - DUDE. That's why you left in the first place! I don't want Tom to come back just to continue the same effin' storyline. Let him come back, co-manage the estate with Mary and be happy with it while he builds up other parts of his life (like let him meet a lady who isn't The Worst, like Bunting). No more of this "Tom finding his place in the world" BS. He came back because he clearly felt his place in the world was at Downton. Leave it be and move to something else, Fellowes.

 

Thomas is frequently the architect of his own misery, but the passive-aggressive way Carson and Robert are handling the whole "let's fire him but let's kinda wait a bit first to see if he'll just go away" thing is not fair at all. They need to be straight with him and say something like "Your position will be eliminated by the end of the year" instead of being all dodgy when Thomas tries to bring it up and figure out if he still has a job. And Thomas, in turn, needs to stop being a snob whenever he goes for a job interview (although he was a smidge nicer in his second interview, his attitude at both could be summed up with "Ew! Your job is so gross! You honestly expect me to do that?!" which is a great way to never get hired). He really needs to just get the hell out of that area and go to London to manage a hotel or something or go to America and find a new money family who would be thrilled to have a genuine English butler.

 

I'm glad the wedding finally happened, because the wedding prep drama was total BS. Both Carson and Hughes are capable adults who have been running a large house and managing a staff for many years. They can plan their own dang wedding and they don't need to stand there like helpless children while everyone pushes them into what they want for them. And I didn't entirely buy Cora's freakout - I get that she had a bad day, but would she really basically accuse three of her most loyal and faithful staff members of pawing through her stuff with the intent of stealing it? Clearly, something else was in play there and there was an explanation. I could see her being miffed at Mary for offering her wardrobe without checking in with her first, but it felt out of character for her to treat her staff that way. So I'm glad the wedding drama is over. Now I hope Carson and Hughes have a lovely honeymoon somewhere and they come home settled into a local cottage like the Bateses and we can leave that drama behind.

 

I can see Mrs Hughes being happy to see Tom again, but Carson? It felt like he never quite got over how improper it was for him to pursue one of the daughters of the house, so his warm reaction to Tom popping up at the wedding felt weird. At best I'd figure he's just be like, "Um, okay. I will allow it because my bride is fond of you."

 

Robert, with his angina last season and his "indigestion" this season is soooooo going to land in the local hospital to really amp up the "Who is right about which method will provide the best care" argument. I totally don't care about it.

 

And you know who cares about Spratt/Denker? Absolutely NO ONE. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Kostgard

[Tetraneutron]

Well this was a bunch of nothing. I suppose it's all table-setting for the final episodes.

 

Why is this show relying so much on "Frasier" plotting? Where all the conflict comes from wild misinterpretations, overhearing, and missed messages, and if the characters would just take a second to talk to each other, the show would be five minutes long. And what happened to the house Carson bought? Did the show forget that? Clearly they're staying on as butler and housekeeper.

 

Does it bug anyone else there's no conflict on stuff anyone cares about? We know Cora won't be mad about the clothes. We know there won't be any hard feelings between Mary and Mrs. Hughes. We know the wedding will go off without a hitch. So what the hell are we watching? Meanwhile, the conflict is about the hospital and who cares? The show isn't about the hospital. We don't know what goes on there. We don't know anything about the old system or the new one.

 

Good parts? Thomas and the sad old man in the creepy old house. More of that please. More sadness and decay. Actually SHOW things changing instead of hearing about it ad nauseum, from the thriving, secure, great house where they can dump productive tenants on a whim and where the local hospital has five separate directors of some kind. Also, and I can't believe I'm typing these words, Denker and Spratt. At least that blackmail plot has characters actually doing something, in their own self-interest, no less. We need that when everyone else is busy (a) being nice to each other and (b) having good fortune fall in their laps.

[Helena Dax]

Daisy liked William but she did not love him, maybe she could have had she been given time but she was never really allowed to process her feelings for him. I felt very uncomfortable watching Mrs Patmore basically bullying Daisy into this relationship. It was the one time I felt bad for Daisy - Mrs Patmore meant well but it was hard to watch nevertheless.

"Don't make me be false to a dying man" - was a pretty heart-wrenching line. In the end Daisy agreed to the marriage because it was a dying man's wish. I think her relationship with Mr Morgan has more emotional depth (of a non-romantic nature) than the one she had with his son.

 I agree, I didn't like that plot at all.

 

I  didn't know Branson was going to be in this episode, that was a nice surprise. Also,  I loved the wedding. 

 

So it seems that Robert wants Thomas out, I wasn't expecting that. I wonder why, since Thomas saved Edith last season and everything else. Poor Thomas. I know he  isn't a good person, but I want a happy ending  for him. 

 

I know Mary's got a lot of  detractors and I can understand why, but I love her anyway. Her relationship  with Carson is  one of my favourite things in the show. I also like her friendship  with Anna; I think they've done things for each other that they wouldn't do for anyone else. 

 

This was a great episode for Edith. She did a good job as an editor and her new boyfriend  is cute. 

[wlk68]

I cannot stand Denker and if she got hit by a bus tomorrow I would do a jig. . 

Edited October 5, 2015 by wlk68

[Tetraneutron]

 

So it seems that Robert wants Thomas out, I wasn't expecting that. I wonder why, since Thomas saved Edith last season and everything else. Poor Thomas. I know he  isn't a good person, but I want a happy ending  for him.

I don't think Robert wants Thomas out specifically, just that they're very aware there's no need for him, and with great houses going bankrupt left and right they can't keep paying someone to be ornamental. In the first episode this season, Cora said "Who has an under butler these days?"

[foreverevolving]

I don't think Robert wants Thomas out specifically, just that they're very aware there's no need for him, and with great houses going bankrupt left and right they can't keep paying someone to be ornamental. In the first episode this season, Cora said "Who has an under butler these days?"

But that's the problem isn't it? the Crawley's realize that they don't Thomas so instead of making the round and seeing if maybe any of their friends or recently married children of their friends need a butler they just do nothing.

[Tetraneutron]

And more to the point, why on earth would Thomas, who spent the whole series hating being a servant and resenting being lower class, WANT to still be a servant? He should be embracing the hell out of the new world and trying to get a City job, the way plenty of former servants were doing in the 1920s. He was an army medic, that by itself must open some doors. 

[vesperholly]

None of these characters can leave the Abbey, no matter how much it makes sense for their character, the plot or the times, because they have contracts to appear on the show. So instead of writing them actual, logical storylines that progress and perhaps writes a character or two out (a la Gwen in S1), JF just writes in circles and chains everyone who has a name to Hotel California Abbey.

 

In any real world, Edith would have decamped to London years ago, Daisy would be working in the kitchen of a nice hotel and Thomas as a shop salesman - perhaps time for a Mr Selfridge crossover? At least we're not being subjected to an endless parade of laughable widow-suitors for Mary ... which leads me to believe Tom is her endgame (NOOOOO).

[CofCinci]

Seems that Tom ate his feelings in America.

[AllyB]

 

I was happy to see Tom back, but then they showed the previews for the next episode where he's all, "I need to find my place outside of this house" - DUDE. That's why you left in the first place! I don't want Tom to come back just to continue the same effin' storyline. Let him come back, co-manage the estate with Mary and be happy with it while he builds up other parts of his life (like let him meet a lady who isn't The Worst, like Bunting). No more of this "Tom finding his place in the world" BS. He came back because he clearly felt his place in the world was at Downton. Leave it be and move to something else, Fellowes.

Remember when Tom was a journalist? Maybe he could edit Edith's magazine and fall in love with her assistant (Audrey?). Though he could always go back to Ireland and gain a position as a foreign diplomat based in Yorkshire. If having a grandfather who was a sheep farmer can make him a great land agent, having in-laws who are aristocrats would make him a top-notch diplomat. He'd probably have diverted the Anglo-Irish Trade war in the 30s but instead he'll probably be miserably married to Mary.

[saki]

Some quick thoughts:

• I did enjoy Edith and the chap who makes coffee and sandwiches.  He was lovely and it was great to see Edith looking happy and purposeful.
• I also (on a really superficial point) really loved the hats this episode – everyone had great ones, Mrs Hughes, Cora, Edith, etc
• Thomas and the creepy interview was creepy. 
• I do wish that they’d show times changing at Downton not just elsewhere – it’s ridiculous that all the other great houses are operating on a shoestring but Downton still has someone ironing a newspaper..  not to mention an under-butler and women who aren’t even combing their own hair.
• Tom – almost didn’t recognise him, apparently American portion sizes even then were larger…  I have no interest in this storyline.  I don’t understand why he stayed at Downton, I don’t understand why he left, I don’t understand why he’s back again.  His personality seems to have morphed out of all recognition – does he care about Ireland any more? Is he still a socialist?  Who knows?  It’s like they just recast Matthew.
• Hard to watch Daisy – it’s just so obvious that she’s jumped the gun with Mr  Mason
• Absolutely loved Daisy, Anna and Mrs Patmore having a girly conversation about Mrs Hughes’ dress, particularly dissing her previous choice!
• Couldn’t believe Carson said that all he needed for his wedding was Lady Mary turning up… um, I think Mrs Hughes turning up might be more important…. 
• Robert totally has Chekhov’s indigestion…

[oceanblue]

Maybe Tom will write for Edith's magazine while managing the estate with Mary?  I really loved that Bertie is impressed by Edith.  

 

When Thomas was interviewing I thought it would go one of two ways:  1) the old guy would confess he was gay and they'd live happily ever after with Thomas inheriting the estate or 2) the guy would adopt Thomas with the same ending.  I want to see Thomas come out on top.  And not just of some old man.

 

BTW, people have mentioned Thomas saving Edith last season.  I have assumed that he started the fire to regain hero status after the Baxter incident.  And, yes, I'm still rooting for him.  It's not logical, but he has a certain something.

Edited October 6, 2015 by oceanblue

[Tetraneutron]

We saw Thomas had nothing to do with starting the fire. Idiot Edith threw a book into the fire because it reminded her of Michael Gregson, then went to sleep. The fire started in her room, at night. 

 

And even if the sad old guy was gay, Thomas couldn't inherit the estate. It automatically goes to the closest living male relative. I don't think it went to adopted children either, There were rules and the owners couldn't give the estate away at will. We saw that in the first episode, where the estate went to Matthew, no matter how much Robert initially wanted to leave it to Mary. Other people here know more about that stuff than I do. 

 

Besides, Thomas ending up with that guy? The complete and utter opposite of a happy ending. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Tetraneutron

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

Thomas is frequently the architect of his own misery, but the passive-aggressive way Carson and Robert are handling the whole "let's fire him but let's kinda wait a bit first to see if he'll just go away" thing is not fair at all. They need to be straight with him and say something like "Your position will be eliminated by the end of the year" instead of being all dodgy when Thomas tries to bring it up and figure out if he still has a job. And Thomas, in turn, needs to stop being a snob whenever he goes for a job interview (although he was a smidge nicer in his second interview, his attitude at both could be summed up with "Ew! Your job is so gross! You honestly expect me to do that?!" which is a great way to never get hired). He really needs to just get the hell out of that area and go to London to manage a hotel or something or go to America and find a new money family who would be thrilled to have a genuine English butler.

THIS!! Thomas as a hotel manager would be a perfect fit. I'd even root for him in a show where he gets to be more snobbish than Carson as a hotel manager or butler to new money Americans. What's always bothered me about Thomas is he has no legitimate reason for his nasty shenanigans. Every good deed he's ever done is clouded by his behavior. He was following Jimmy which led to his interceding in the ambush. He didn't like Nanny; he was watching her waiting for an opportunity to pull one of his tricks; witnessing Sybbie's mistreatment was happenstance.

 

I really hoped Edith would become more of a Lucia Lucas (Mapp & Lucia) or Phyrne Fisher. She just mopes about.Why not throw the kinds of parties Michael Gregson had? Try being the socialite spinster. In 1925 women's options were limited, but with money and an indulgent father Edith should be doing more.

 

I never thought I'd say it but I want Rose back!

[Dianaofthehunt]

I must be putty in this show's hands, because even when the "sneaky" music plays under Dencker's shenanigans, i titter like a maniac.

I LIKE the hospital fuss, mainly because I have a crush on the Doc and his accent. There, I've said it.  And it seems he's slowly realizing that being swallowed up by the bigger hospital is a good thing. I wouldn't mind seeing Violet alone on this issue. I'm still hoping for a thing between Doctor and prickly Isobel.
Right ON! to whoever suggested Thomas go to London for a job. Even if he stayed in service, he'd find plenty of households who would love to have his handsome face at the door, greeting visitors. And he does know his business. And think of the exploits he could have in his free time!

Horray for Tom's return! Now buckle down and be a non-mopey productive member of society, you handsome brute.

Anna, stay pregnant.

I hope Carson and the Mrs. retire soon, while he still has the health to run their little inn, or whatever. 

Edith getting the magazine "to bed" in the nick of time? More, MORE like that, please. When Edith is working and Doing Things, she is the epitome of What's To Come.

[Lady Grump]

I long ago gave up the notion that this show was anything more than an anachronistic, repetitive soap opera. So, for my kind, this episode was grrrrrrreat! Edith, finally! The Spratt / Denker thing is working for me. Old timey fashion, check! Branson's return. And man oh man, I do believe that was the best "Downton Wedding" yet. I thoroughly enjoyed the "dress drama." Hysterical. Especially the faces, and snide comments, they all pulled when the various options were presented throughout the episode. Enjoyed the senile old dude, drying his unders on the fire -- clinging to the past.

 

Good times.

[wlk68]

I long ago gave up the notion that this show was anything more than an anachronistic, repetitive soap opera.

 

This. Fabulous clothes and an amazing setting but still basically just a soap opera. This would make Anna and Bates the Luke and Laura of their generation. 

[Eolivet]

I'm loving this season. Loving it. I've seen progress in each plot in every episode (it will be interesting to see what storyline the newlywed Carsons embark on next). I enjoyed the first scene with Edith and Bernie so much. I kept thinking of the contrast between her in season 1 -- where she would grin from ear to ear if a man gave her so much as a second glance, and here, she was so busy with her work and so confident in her life, she couldn't even tell Bernie was hitting on her. What a nice man, and seems very respectful of Edith. Hoping those two crazy kids can work it out.

 

I love the hospital plot -- I love Isobel, and the sparkling zingers Violet has been throwing left, right and center. I see Elizabeth McGovern more energized than I have in years (since season 1?) She seemed more engaged in giving Mrs. Hughes a coat than that ridiculous affair plot from last year.

 

Nice to see Tom back. As they were all sort of embracing, it occurred to me what an odd, funny family the Crawleys have become from what they were in season 1. Two parents, two daughters, the third daughter's husband/their former chauffeur, the former heir's mother and three grandchildren. And yet, as Lavinia Swire would say, "how fine, how right they look together."

Edited October 10, 2015 by Eolivet