S03.E06: Meet The In-Laws

[Vinyasa]

 

This season so far is painful to watch.

 

Extremely painful to watch!!   And this episode was soooooooooooooo boring.

 

I am missing Sean and Davina (and I never thought I'd say that). There is nothing to talk about with these Season 3 people. They are just dull. 

[Neurochick]

Re Neil and Sam: I think most women would love to have a husband who wants to cook and clean and share the chores 50/50. I can't believe that it's a problem for Sam. In what century does she live in? If she really wants to have such an old-fashioned marriage setup, then maybe she could start by being less domineering and confrontational.

 

Her dad is great, though.

 

I agree about Ashley: if she has so little time and if it's so hard for her to talk and warm up to a stranger, she shouldn't have done this.

 

I wonder if David really keeps nagging her to talk, or we only see those few minutes when he tries. In tonight's episode he talked about wanting 15 minutes with Ashley to discuss their situation. So does that mean that this was the first time he brought it up that day, or this was the umpteenth time he'd talked about it? He certainly seems like he's getting more and more frustrated.

 

Yes to all of this.  Sam doesn't know what she's talking about.  A man who wants to cook and clean is a gem IMO.  I didn't like Neil at first, but when he said 50/50, I was like, he's okay by me, even if he does look like a hipster from Williamsburg, Brooklyn.

 

Why is Ashley on this show again?  Is it for the fame?  Did the show promise to pay her tuition?  I think David could be exhausting, but if Ashley gave him 15 minutes, maybe he would have left her alone.  She doesn't even want to talk to the guy.

 

I still stand by my opinion about Vanessa; she's the type of person who's been reading Brides magazine since she was four.  She's only known Trey for two weeks and so what he went out drinking with his dad and uncle?  Maybe the reason he was passed out was because he doesn't drink all that much and if he had just a tad more than normal, his body couldn't handle it and he passed out.   You're not an alcoholic just because you go out drinking with the guys, and I'm a person who's been sober over 20 years.    I think Vanessa needs to put down "The Notebook" and get into real life.  

 

However, if Tres does this every night or even every weekend, THEN it'll be a problem.  Sometimes I think Vanessa is just looking for shit to be wrong.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Neurochick

[Snarklepuss]

Pardon my French but the experts are so fucking irresponsible and unethical;

 

How could they match Sam & Neil, when both have strong yet opposite views on gender roles in a marriage? How come their extensive bullshit testing didn’t reveal that? By the way, I know you guys love Neil but he still comes across as an asexual virgin to me.

 

I'm quickly coming around to see your point of view on Neil.  I don't love the way Sam is making a federal case about the "two Neils" because it may just be that he is camera shy, which is understandable to a degree, but maybe not to the degree Neil is taking it.  Neil is not a "let it all hang out" kind of guy like Sam's father is.  But then again I'm wondering if she doesn't have some reason to be on him about the discrepancy in his behavior.  Not knowing what the "off camera" Neil is like, I have to wonder if he isn't hiding something because he thinks he wouldn't look as good.  Sam actually seems to like "off camera" Neil but doesn't like that he hides it to the public.  I'm trying to put myself in her shoes and it probably wouldn't sit all that well with me if the difference was like night and day.  I'd think he needed to be more comfortable in his own skin.  Truthfully, I'm starting to see him as coming off as a stiff.  In the beginning I thought it was because he was reacting to a lunatic but now I'm wondering what's up with that.  I personally don't like it when people act all PC in public but then swear like sailors in private.  Be yourself, stop caring so much about what other people think.  So I think Sam has a point with that.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[jamblastx]

Sham - shopping list:  brush, comb, rake, hot oil treatment, conditioner.  So she comes to an epiphany at their disgusting swimming pool and decides to give Neil more of a chance before immediately criticizing his cold and clammy hands.  I then immediately got a one word text from my girlfriend whom I have never heard or seen her say this one word before....the four letter word starts with 'c'.  That just about sums Sham up

 

Neil - Last week I would have thought that Neil 'acting differently' with the cameras not being there meant that he was a complete asshole when not being filmed and could have sympathized with Sham.  We find out that it means he is more guarded in front of the camera....wow....get a restraining order Sham.  I could understand the producers being frustrated with this, but his 'wife'?  Why? If this works out between the two of them (I know....but stick with me here), its not as if they are going to have a camera crew 24/7 for the rest of their lives...I mean, they aren't Jamie.

 

David - Get...over...it.  Ashley is NOT into you at all and if you want to try to make it work out by some miracle, constantly asking 'what are you thinking?' isn't going to work.  Also, and I apologize if I offend anyone here, but your dad died 25 years ago.  If you freak out and cannot handle certain days like father's day after this long of a period of time, maybe you should seek some therapy (and trust me, I do not mean this sarcastically or in a condescending manner).  I know that everyone deals with grief differently, but I lost my mother whom I was extremely close with 15 years ago, and I did my share of crying about it and I can negotiate mothers day, her birthday her anniversary death without freaking out.

 

Ashley - All we need to know how she feels is her body language when they are in bed with him leaning over to talk to her and her retreating on the edge of the bed with the dog as a further barrier.  She is probably very thankful that she has the built in excuse that she needs to study...she can probably thank David for 'inspiring' her with his neediness to be a better student.

 

Tres - This could go two ways...his partying is just some immaturity that he still needs to grow out of, or its the beginning to a more serious issue.  One big red flag to me was his statement that he likes to have fun and when he has fun he likes to drink.  If the alcohol is necessary to have fun, then yes Vanessa has reason to be worried.  And also, it doesn't make anyone feel better by saying 'I haven't partied in two weeks which is long for me...and up till recently I did this all the time'...don't give yourself a medal for this Tres.  And if you are going to give up partying because of Vanessa and not because you want to do it, then you will resent her for it.

 

Vanessa - At first I thought she was overreacting to Tres' binge, but after thinking about it....yeah, I get her point totally

 

Random Thoughts :

• Neil has the best body from the men...David needs to stop stress eating and hit the gym and Tres is doughy...probably from the partying.
• We now have three seasons and its interesting that all nine men had nothing bad to say about their mate's appearance when they first met...and four out of the nine women immediately were turned off by the men's appearance.

Edited January 6, 2016 by jamblastx

[Trixie Belden]

David comes off as super needy, but I can understand. Ashley shows no signs of being interested in their relationship. If they consummated, he'd probably do a lot less "are we okay? How's our relationship going?" crap. Right now, it's the only feedback he gets. 

 

I was thinking last night that as much as I can't stand Sam, at least she will interact with Neil.  Ashley has a perpetually blank, vacant face when she talks to David, but she is remarkedly more animated when she talks to his mother or Dr. Schwartz.  There's just no way to communicate with someone like that.  

 

Ditto David. Maybe he wouldn't be such a persistent and perennial butt kisser if he wasn't dealing with a corpse. What if he had been matched with a girl who was at least willing to go along with this "experiment"? His outburst was weird, though. He needs to tame that daddy dragon. He might also have to give up any hope of having parties while he's bound to the corpse, as this would include strangers and acting like a human being.

I'm not getting a sense from David of a pathetic neediness or clinginess. I do see a true frustration and grave disappointment in how this exercise is turning out for him. I think he actually wants to believe that the Experts did a good job matching him and Ashley, and, therefore, he just cannot understand her coldness and lack of effort. God. The way she just stares at him when he tries to converse, and the way she can barely grunt a one-word reply, are maddening! She is so totally wrapped up in herself and can't concentrate or care about Dave's feelings for more than two minutes at a clip. How dare he want to talk or discuss Dr Pepper's advice! I think Ashley borderline hates Dave and is just counting down the days. Her need-to-study excuse is just an excuse. She agreed to the show in bad faith. I agree that Dave's melting down over dead dad was a strange kind of non sequitur, but I think either he was trying to get ANY kind of human reaction from Ashley, or else we don't know what directly preceded his breakdown.

 

I totally agree with this.  If the only time she is going to be interested in him is to push him about why he's grumpy on a day that's sad for him, I'd be more suprised if he didn't lose his temper.  And really, all we saw him do was yell (and I yell a LOT louder when I'm pissed) and slam the door as he left.  I don't care how long ago your parent died, Fathers/Mothers Day or their birthday will always be a little bit difficult.  My grandmother died when my mom was 50 and had her own children and grandchildren to celebrate Mother's Day with her.  Now, even at 74 my mom is a little bit sad on Mother's Day-it doesn't go away.  

[BunnySlippers]

I think there is a difference between having some drinks and passing out drunk. i don't like that level of drinking and I think Vanessa is right to be concerned. You can go out and have fun without being falling down drunk. And I'm starting to like Sam a lot more than cold fish Ashley. Sam at least gives Neil hugs and makes jokes and smiles sometimes. Ashley looks supremely annoyed that David is in her vicinity. I think she wants him to just pay for the house and leave her alone.

...

I'm also not sure Sam was talking about anything sexual. She obviously prefers a guy to be a bit more manly than Neil appears to be; to be honest I prefer men like that myself. Sometimes when you are in charge at work all day you don't want to have to make all the decisions at home. I would sure appreciate the cooking and cleaning though!

 

Weird as it sounds, if I had to predict one couple to last a while it would be Sam and Neil. They are both trying hard in their own ways to make things work. Tres and Vanessa are both quiet people and It is hard to get a read on whether Tres really wants to be married or not. Ashley is just a negative, bitter person and I can't see her trying at all. David is trying too hard to make up for it, but it will never work. I almost think Ashley wants the same kind of man Sam wants, a guy who will be aggressive and not take her bullshit. David is not that guy. 

 

I agree. I do think Vanessa was overreacting a little, but at the same time, maybe she wasn't, because it wasn't just that Tres went out to have a couple of drinks with his father and uncle; apparently, he drank so much that he passed out. I don't think that's a very good sign. How often does he do that? Having a few drinks is not a problem, but heavy drinking is. I think one issue for her is that she wants to be sure that this is the kind of marriage she wants, and she wants to be sure of that within the 6 weeks they have before they have to make a decision. So anything Tres does goes onto a list of pros and cons that she wants to evaluate before the "experiment" is over.  It could also be that, as others have mentioned, she has a lot of baggage and insecurities that affect her way of thinking.

 

About Sam, my impression was also that she wasn't talking about anything sexual when she said she wants someone who puts her in her place. She actually said something like that before, I think. I don't even think that she thinks about sex with Neil at this point at all. I think she meant that she wants a more manly man than Neil who doesn't take shit from her all the time. There are people like that; they are like a bulldozer with shy and passive people, but once you stand up to them, they respect you and become much more friendly. I think she's like that. I do think that Sam and Neil are going to make it.

 

About Ashley, I really don't know what she wants other than a man with dark features. Why is that so important to her? Or is that not the only problem? Is David's talking just too much for her? I'm not sure she wants an aggressive man. When David tried to push her to talk, she shut down. Maybe she just wants to be married and be financially secure without actually giving anything of herself. Just have a token husband and a nice house and live her own life in her own room, if possible.

 

After seeing Sam's Dad I realized she "wants a guy just like the guy that married dear ol' mom".  In this case a gun totin' cigar chompin', military hat wearin', cussin', good ol' boy for a match.  Makes me think they should look at the opposite sex parent if there is one for some guidance in matching these people.  Neil couldn't be further away from Sam's Dad if he tried.  When he said "guns don't kill people, people do" I thought he was being facetious or engaging in veiled sarcasm.  While I think Sam is a nut job, I totally get why she is upset with him - He is far too guarded and stiff on camera.  He's not being himself.  I get it that the camera is intimidating but we the audience want to see this "real" Neil.  Now that I know there is one somewhere I am curious and a little pissed off that we haven't been seeing him.  Perhaps they should have matched him with Ashley. He's the "dark" type she says she wants plus he's just as stiff and guarded as she is on camera.  That said, I actually loved Sam's Dad.  Then again my Dad is a cross between Neil and Sam's Dad, military hat included, but thankfully no beard!

 

 

I had the same thought - maybe Sam wants a man like her father, and Neil is definitely not like that. And I agree; I want to see that "cool" Neil, too, that Sam talked about. At the same time, I totally understand Neil not wanting to curse and behave badly on national TV. He doesn't want to embarrass himself and his family. He understands that people will judge him, and a negative view could have bad consequences on his job and everyday life.

 

 

 David's constant poking & pushing is going to push Ashley away. I think that if he'd just give her the space everyone but him sees she needs, she may come around. It did crack me up when Ashley said that she thought of herself as a talkative person. WTF?!?

I don't think Sam is that bad- but I don't think she knows what she wants. She's very impulsive. When she finally does sit & think about the situation, she can be understanding, The problem is that she doesn't do it very often- she just speaks or acts. I really like Neil, & I get why he doesn't want to swear or do anything that would embarrass his family, I don't know why Sam has to give him such a hard time. He's been so patient & so sweet & he's taken a lot of crap from her. I wish she'd get out of her own way!!

This is the first time Vanessa did something that really disappointed me. She talks about Tres not being ready for marriage. If she's going to bring her insecurities from past relationships to her marriage, I think she's the one who's not ready. This is the first time they've really been apart since they got married & she gives him crap for going out with his Dad on Fathers Day! That's not cool. It would be hard to trust someone like that after 2 weeks. But it has to start somewhere, sometime.

 

LOL, yes, when Ashley said she was a talkative person, I rolled my eyes. Sure, Ashley. You're a regular blabbermouth. And I do think David is pushing her away with his neediness. But I think he's just really panicked that things are going so slow, and when the 6 weeks are up, there still won't be any progress made and she'll want a divorce. Apparently, he wants to be married to anybody, no matter how cold they are.

 

I agree about Neil and Vanessa, too.

[seasick]

It would be how someone would act if they were looking for a beard.  I know a person who came out at middle age.  He said when he was younger he was so closeted that he could not admit his desires even to himself.  He said he came off asexual and was the nicest guy around in hopes that a female would stay with him to keep up the facade.  Of course most ladies realized something was up and he never did get that beard.  Lucky, for him, as he is now much happier being himself and does not have a marriage to get over.

 

I have no idea if Neil is gay.  However, I think that he is the only one working with arranged marriage rules in the strictest sense.  If you do not like the one your with then you suck it up and make it work (not always the best idea), unless she is chasing you around the kitchen with a knife.  The problems is Sam is almost repulsed by what she perceives as extreme passivity.

 

I think she does not mind that Neil would cook and clean.  it just anything he says that does not match up to her idea of manliness is going to repulse her even more.  It's like he said " I like to dress up as a butterfly and prance around meadows" (nothing wrong with this) and as other posters have pointed out, the problem lies with her not him.

 

I do not think Neil is a good match for Sam.  I think the experts and the show were so burned by last season's scandal with the men they went out of their way to find guys who were extremely gung ho about marrying anyone (which is in keeping with the attitude of the project).  They just hoped that Sam's weirdness would mesh with Neil's strangeness.

Yes!!!  I thought the same thing!    It might seems strange in today's world where homosexuality is so accepted, but it may be Neil's culture that has him in denial of this (if it's true)    I worked with Indian/Bangladesh men who if I recall correctly told me they actually didn't have a word for homosexuality.  ??   It's not even acknowledged as a possibility.

I know that Neil was raised here in the USA but those cultural taboos may be heavily ingrained still even without saying it.

[BunnySlippers]

As you know I've posted about this myself - Sometimes I think these therapists live in some fantasy world about how relationships work.  Not everyone is a therapist who tries to bring people out of their shells, and most people would find that unbelievably annoying if done to them.  They have to stop imposing what works for them on other people and listen to what they want.  When I tried to think of any couples I know who are complete opposites in terms of introversion/extroversion I could only think of two, and both are very unhappy marriages.  Most successful couples I know meet somewhere in between and are not at complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

Yes, I remember, and I posted about this before, too. :)

 

I agree; the people who signed up for this show didn't sign up to be a therapist for a stranger. And, especially when you don't have a strong connection to someone, it can be extremely annoying and draining to be expected to fix someone just because you have the opposite personality. And yes, the experts should focus on what the participants actually want.

Edited January 6, 2016 by BunnySlippers

[suzeecat]

Observation:  Neil seems much more comfortable with Sam's dad than with Sam.  Also, Ashley seemed much warmer with David's mom than with David.

[moonxyz]

Also, did anyone else feel uncomfortable with the scene where Vanessa was sitting on her bed, with Tres’ dad standing over her ? It really creeped me out.

[Empress1]

Re Neil and Sam: I think most women would love to have a husband who wants to cook and clean and share the chores 50/50. I can't believe that it's a problem for Sam. In what century does she live in? If she really wants to have such an old-fashioned marriage setup, then maybe she could start by being less domineering and confrontational.

 

Her dad is great, though.

 

I agree about Ashley: if she has so little time and if it's so hard for her to talk and warm up to a stranger, she shouldn't have done this.

 

I wonder if David really keeps nagging her to talk, or we only see those few minutes when he tries. In tonight's episode he talked about wanting 15 minutes with Ashley to discuss their situation. So does that mean that this was the first time he brought it up that day, or this was the umpteenth time he'd talked about it? He certainly seems like he's getting more and more frustrated.

Totally agree with everything here. My dad is an excellent cook - he taught me. His father taught him. So the whole "men don't cook" trope is weird to me. In my last relationship the guy didn't really cook and I was like " ... what do you eat?" (But it was fun to teach him. And he did clean.) However, I know that there are men out there who don't or won't or can't cook and women who complain that they do everything around the house, and Neil is saying he's not that guy, and she's bitching about it? Huh?

 

Also, let's leave my dom/sub theory for a second. As you say, if Sam really wants to attract a man who "wears the pants" in a relationship, she needs to do a complete 180 on her personality. She SCREAMS controlling. She's bossy as hell. There is absolutely nothing about her that says "I want to be taken care of." At all. I really can't figure that out - it's so incongruous with everything we've seen of her.

 

To make a relationship work, you have to put in the time and effort. Ashley is doing neither. I get that she's a student, but you make time for what's important to you. All the participants have jobs. My cousin met, dated, fell in love with, and married her husband while both were in med school (that's where they met). They have a baby now. And in my experience, while I think people think they mean it when they say "I don't have time for a relationship right now," when someone comes along that they want to date? They date them. I've seen it a million times. If Ashley liked Dave even a little, she'd make some effort. She didn't say "I really need to study, this test is tomorrow and I'm not prepared. Let's talk about Dr. Pepper's visit tomorrow when my final is over." She was like "I'm not doing this, I need to study, and oh by the way I'm doing so in bed so you'll need to sleep elsewhere." I was cringing at the preview for next week when David tries to kiss her.

 

Ashley reminds me a little of a family friend. I've known her since I was a kid - I used to babysit her three daughters. She's nice when you get to know her but she presents as cold and standoffish. It takes a while for most people to crack that shell, and frankly a lot of people just give up.

[PityFree]

I really wanted David to tattle on Ashley to Dr. Pepper that she hadn't even let him hold her hand yet. I hate that Ashley looks like she is at the vet having a pet put downown every time she has to interact with David. She has a resting sour puss face (as opposed to resting bitch face).

I didn't like that Sam's dad wanted Niel to change and be more aggressive. No, Mr. Sam's Dad, your daughter needs to be less of a rabid gorilla.

[Snarklepuss]

The thing is, therapists are paid to work with people. In a social situation, there has to be some payoff for investing all of that time and effort. I have a feeling that, with Ashley, the problem isn't that she's in her shell, it's that she's an empty shell.

 

True, there is that too!  There has to be something worthwhile underneath the shell to pull out or it's futile.  David seems to deserve better than Ashley.  I actually think he has more going for him than she does in several ways.  I don't know what the therapists thought he'd be bringing out but I doubt whatever it is would be worth it anyway.

[moonxyz]

I'm quickly coming around to see your point of view on Neil.  I don't love the way Sam is making a federal case about the "two Neils" because it may just be that he is camera shy, which is understandable to a degree, but maybe not to the degree Neil is taking it.  Neil is not a "let it all hang out" kind of guy like Sam's father is.  But then again I'm wondering if she doesn't have some reason to be on him about the discrepancy in his behavior.  Not knowing what the "off camera" Neil is like, I have to wonder if he isn't hiding something because he thinks he wouldn't look as good.  Sam actually seems to like "off camera" Neil but doesn't like that he hides it to the public.  I'm trying to put myself in her shoes and it probably wouldn't sit all that well with me if the difference was like night and day.  I'd think he needed to be more comfortable in his own skin.  Truthfully, I'm starting to see him as coming off as a stiff.  In the beginning I thought it was because he was reacting to a lunatic but now I'm wondering what's up with that.  I personally don't like it when people act all PC in public but then swear like sailors in private.  Be yourself, stop caring so much about what other people think.  So I think Sam has a point with that.

Sam is not able to express herself in a non aggressive way but her feelings are valid IMO. She got set up and is angry and she is unfortunately misplacing this anger on Neil. She got matched up with a guy that she is not attracted to and that is passive. She's probably wondering what was the point of all the "extensive" testing. I do too.

 

And does anyone else feel that the "not manly enough" references actually mean gay? I've watched this show with two people a woman and a guy (straight) and they swear that Neil is gay. I read him as being a virgin but maybe Sam was/is angry because she feels that she got set up with a gay guy?

[qtpye]

One of the things that I look for in a successful coupling are two people that compliment each other.  Whether they are similar or polar opposites, they bring out the best in the other person and vice versa.  Sam, Neil, David, and Ashley have. so far,  brought out the worst in each other.

 

Alone, David is probably a nice out going person, with Ashley he becomes a needy pathetic man boy begging for affection.

 

I can see without David, Ashley can probably come off as reserved and sweet, with David she is a nasty aloof gold digging cold fish.

 

Without Neil, Sam probably comes off as take charge and fiercely independent. with Neil she is a brutish caveman.

 

Without Sam, Neil is probably a nice quirky type of guy, with Sam he is a passive doormat.

 

The experiment is still young so this could change.

[ralph]

Maybe Vanessa needed to reel it in a bit, but I feel the same way. Drunk people are just gross. I just can't stand them. I don't drink and I just find drunk people disgusting to be a around, even though I think light social drinking is fine. Few things are as big a turn off as seeing someone drunk.

At first I was thinking, "relax Vanessa, he was with his Dad and uncle, how wild could he have gotten?", but someone here reminded me that he was raised by his aunt, and I know how these family relationships work. His Dad is probably nothing more than an older friend, so things could've easily gotten out of hand with his Dad and uncle probably egging him on.

[ralph]

Sam is not able to express herself in a non aggressive way but her feelings are valid IMO. She got set up and is angry and she is unfortunately misplacing this anger on Neil. She got matched up with a guy that she is not attracted to and that is passive. She's probably wondering what was the point of all the "extensive" testing. I do too.

 

And does anyone else feel that the "not manly enough" references actually mean gay? I've watched this show with two people a woman and a guy (straight) and they swear that Neil is gay. I read him as being a virgin but maybe Sam was/is angry because she feels that she got set up with a gay guy?

 

I'm a guy who's into guys and me telling you Neil is gay would only be wishful thinking on my part. Neil's straight. What you or your friends could be picking up on is that he's very much being emasculated by Sam, which affects the way he acts.

Edited January 7, 2016 by ralph

[Snarklepuss]

Vanessa and Tres consummated. Suddenly, the very next day, Vanessa was no longer cheerful, touchy-feely or giggly. The unpacking scene with her sister took place before Tres's clubbing and drinking, and I detected lots of rolling of eyes and sneering dissatisfaction when Vanessa chatted with her sis. Maybe Vanessa was disappointed with Tres in bed, and maybe she either doesn't know how to convey that or maybe Tres was not responsive to her when she did convey her needs. Lots of conjecture there from me, but I sure don't believe that Vanessa went from her giggly-happiness to surly-sourpuss over Tres's one night out with his dad and uncle. Her anger and disappointment were misplaced.

 

That's an interesting theory and one I've been thinking about all morning.  I didn't realize the timeline.  I had noticed the women sneering and eye rolling myself but I thought it was over the drinking episode.  Now I'll have to go back and watch it again.  How did you know that the sister scene took place before the drunken episode if you don't mind me asking?

[BunnySlippers]

As far as David's outburst goes, it seemed to be heavily edited and could have been shown out of context to what was really going on.  Not saying he doesn't need to tame that Daddy issue, but it looked to me like they were trying to make Ashley look better than she really was in that situation.  She supposedly showed him so much warmth?  Interesting that it took place off camera and I really didn't buy it that she was all that empathetic.

 

His outburst seemed a little too sudden, so I don't know if something else was going on or if he got pissed that just the night before he talked about this day being hard for him, and then this morning, Ashley asks why he's so grumpy.

 

I do wonder if Ashley only went after him to comfort him because the producer told her to.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Snap-Strategies-Couples-Everyday-Relationship/dp/1580055621

 

That's the book David was reading. Written by Dr. Pepper! Suddenly it all makes sense.

 

Ha! Good find! I wonder if Dr. Pepper gave the book to them and that's why he was reading it, trying to do his homework, or did he buy it on his own and was reading it so obviously now as a demonstration to Ashley that they need to fix their relationship and to show that he was really, really trying.

 

Also, did anyone else feel uncomfortable with the scene where Vanessa was sitting on her bed, with Tres’ dad standing over her ? It really creeped me out.

 

I totally agree! I felt the same way! There was just something about him that gave me the creeps.

 

If Ashley liked Dave even a little, she'd make some effort. She didn't say "I really need to study, this test is tomorrow and I'm not prepared. Let's talk about Dr. Pepper's visit tomorrow when my final is over." She was like "I'm not doing this, I need to study, and oh by the way I'm doing so in bed so you'll need to sleep elsewhere." I was cringing at the preview for next week when David tries to kiss her.

 

 

Yes! If she liked him, she would make some effort. And it was characteristically selfish of her to take the bed to study and expect David to buzz off and go sleep somewhere else.

 

 

 

 

And does anyone else feel that the "not manly enough" references actually mean gay? I've watched this show with two people a woman and a guy (straight) and they swear that Neil is gay. I read him as being a virgin but maybe Sam was/is angry because she feels that she got set up with a gay guy?

 

I actually said at the very beginning that when I first saw Neil on the show, I thought he was gay.

 

I don't know if he's gay or if he's asexual or just has a slow sex drive, but there's something there that's a little different. And I don't think I've seen or heard him doing/saying anything about any sexual relationship with Sam. On the other hand, it's no wonder, the way she's been treating him.

Edited January 6, 2016 by BunnySlippers

[ClareWalks]

I don't get a gay vibe from Neil, for whatever that's worth. I think next to Psycho Sam, ANYONE would look a bit "less manly," whatever the fuck that even means. I think Sam is using manly as a euphemism for abusive prick, at this point. Talking about wanting to be "put in her place" was uncomfortable to watch. If she was trying to say "standing up to my abusive bullshit and not just taking it like a doormat," she could have said it better than that.

 

Unpopular opinion: David should be less "raw" about his father's death at this point. It is normal to be sad on Father's Day and think about your dad 23 years after he died. It is not normal to explode with anger. Enough time has passed that it shouldn't be so emotional for him every single year, especially if he knows this day is hard for him and seems to have no strategies for coping. He was almost dismissing it like "well, this day is rough, so I can't help it," which is a red flag. Of course, he is way better than Ashley, who wants nothing to do with marriage whatsoever. Sick of her wet-mop self being on my TV.

[Snarklepuss]

I'm a man and I'm into guys and me telling you Neil is gay would only be wishful thinking on my part. Neil's straight. What you or your friends could be picking up on is that he's very much being emasculated by Sam, which affects the way he acts.

 

Neil never pinged my gaydar either although I'm a straight woman.  I said a couple of weeks back that Sam was picking up on surface characteristics with Neil that struck her as effeminate and treating him as if he were less than a man because of it.  Perhaps it's his metrosexual vibe and wardrobe, whatever.  And some posted here that they thought he was hanging back to give her enough rope to hang herself.  Now that Sam has come out with the "two Neils" thing, I have this image of him off camera suddenly turning into a brutish caveman, farting, scratching and cursing and saying all sorts of piggish male things that would belie his "refined" public image, LOL!

[Primetimer]

The Married At First Sight couples continue to flounder, this week celebrating a joyless Father's Day together. Who did the worst?

Read the story

[leighdear]

Vanessa mentioned she went out also, with Tres sister.  I wonder if that situation made her uncomfortable or they didn't get along?  That could definitely increase the anxiety level.  We didn't hear anything about that. 

 

But Vanessa didn't actually have to deal with drunk Tres, did she?  She dealt with sleeping Tres.  So either she woke him up to bitch at him, or she smelled the alcohol on him when she got in bed and let her assumptions run wild.  Regardless of how it actually happened, she let her distrust spiral out of control a bit.  

Edited January 6, 2016 by leighdear

[Neurochick]

Re: Tres, was he passed out, as in passed out on the floor, or just "sleeping it off in bed?  

 

Thinking about it, I think Vanessa was concerned because she doesn't know Tres, he's a STRANGER, to quote Ashley.

 

And these "experts" matching up opposites?  They're not fooling me, they did that totally for the drama.  If they matched two people who were exactly alike, that could be boring for an audience to watch, this is a "show" after all and shows are all about the drama, this isn't some documentary that will be shown to psychology graduate students. 

Edited January 6, 2016 by Neurochick

[zxy556575]

It's probably a fool's game trying to get inside Sam's head, but her thought process seems to be: I realize I can sometimes be wildly  inappropriate, abrupt, attention-seeking, and overbearing. Pretty much like a bratty two-year old. In order to correct this, I need someone who will make me behave by imposing rules and order. In other words, be a strong and firm parent.

 

Phooey. That's not anyone's job but her own. Certainly it's not Neil's.

[Snarklepuss]

Unpopular opinion: David should be less "raw" about his father's death at this point. It is normal to be sad on Father's Day and think about your dad 23 years after he died. It is not normal to explode with anger. Enough time has passed that it shouldn't be so emotional for him every single year, especially if he knows this day is hard for him and seems to have no strategies for coping. He was almost dismissing it like "well, this day is rough, so I can't help it," which is a red flag. Of course, he is way better than Ashley, who wants nothing to do with marriage whatsoever. Sick of her wet-mop self being on my TV.

 

Not so unpopular with me, I almost agree with you.  I say almost because I've known two people who are similar to him who lost parents young.  One of them lost her father on Christmas when she was 9 years old.  As a result she doesn't celebrate the holidays at all (and she comes from a very Italian/Catholic family).  You can't even mention Christmas to her or she will get mad at you and walk out of the room.  And she is over 50 years old and otherwise not a loon.  Then again I suspect that David's over-the-top reaction reveals the incredible stress he's been under marrying and moving in with the ice princess who just isn't into him.  I have to give him some slack in that context.  If not for that I would agree with you 100%.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[kam]

Re: Tres, was he passed out, as in passed out on the floor, or just "sleeping it off in bed?

Thinking about it, I think Vanessa was concerned because she doesn't know Tres, he's a STRANGER, to quote Ashley.

And these "experts" matching up opposites? They're not fooling me, they did that totally for the drama. If they matched two people who were exactly alike, that could be boring for an audience to watch, this is a "show" after all and shows are all about the drama, this isn't some documentary that will be shown to psychology graduate students.

what I got from it was that he was drunk so therefore he wasn't present enough to inform her that he got home okay.....which I think made her worry.

[JapMo]

SAM: She couldn't express to Dr. Pepper in front of Neil what she really felt. She doesn't see him in a sexual way at all. Can you blame her? A previous poster nailed it when they said he has no expectations. He's fine with anything. He reminds me of a guy I dated. Really nice guy...easygoing. But that was the problem...he didn't have any opinions about anything. He was fine with whatever we did. Everything was 'wherever you want to go....whatever you want to do'. The breaking point was New Years Eve when he picked me up and said 'where do you want to go?' I hit the roof, and I do not get mad easily. Sam needs a stronger man and Neil is not that guy. Don't think Neil is gay, but did anyone see the limp wristed handshake he gave Sam's dad at the shooting range? These two might stay together for awhile, but I don't see them long-term.

ASHLEY: This person has not been pronounced dead yet, but it's just a matter of time. There is no life behind those eyes, no pulse. It's one thing not to be attracted to your husband, but David is bending over backward and she's acknowledged that many times. Throw the guy a pitiful bone and at least hold his hand once in awhile Ashley. I'm sick and tired of hearing how shy and introverted she is. I call BS. You don't go on a reality show looking to marry someone at first sight and then whine constantly about how you hardly know the person and they need to give you some space (think Grand Canyon). David deserves better. He's not bad looking and I would bet in real life he's not as needy and desperate as he comes off right now. I don't know many men that would work this hard with someone who is clearly phoning it in. If there's any justice in this world, Ashley will pay for what she's doing to David and all the guys she's interested after this show is over will tell her they can't date a cold fish. She'll be stuck in the Twilight Zone forever, reliving this over and over again, LOL.

VANESSA: It's like she's waiting to find fault with him. Who knows how drunk he was? I can't hold my liquor...two drinks puts me to sleep. Maybe Tres is the same way. He wasn't "passed out" so much as extremely tired. Vanessa needs to stop hovering and waiting to pounce on every word or nuance that confirms to her that Tres isn't ready for marriage. I like these two. I hope they can figure this out.

[moonxyz]

Re: Vanessa and Tres.

 

IMO her issue is not that he went out to get drinks. The issue here is that he went out and got shitfaced like an immature boy. Also, I get the feeling that he never called to check up on her. Hence she doesn't feel like she can depend on him.

 

Vanessa saw the red flags when she found out that he was recruited by production and that he had a wild past. Still she gave him a chnace and decided to judge him through his actions. And she didn't have to wait long for his actions to prove that she was right in the first place. He is an immature boy that is not ready for marriage. 

I'm a man and I'm into guys and me telling you Neil is gay would only be wishful thinking on my part. Neil's straight. What you or your friends could be picking up on is that he's very much being emasculated by Sam, which affects the way he acts.

 

They felt that he was gay from the beginning, when watching episode 1. Even before he met Sam. 

[Neurochick]

SAM: She couldn't express to Dr. Pepper in front of Neil what she really felt. She doesn't see him in a sexual way at all. Can you blame her? A previous poster nailed it when they said he has no expectations. He's fine with anything. He reminds me of a guy I dated. Really nice guy...easygoing. But that was the problem...he didn't have any opinions about anything. He was fine with whatever we did. Everything was 'wherever you want to go....whatever you want to do'. The breaking point was New Years Eve when he picked me up and said 'where do you want to go?' I hit the roof, and I do not get mad easily. Sam needs a stronger man and Neil is not that guy. Don't think Neil is gay, but did anyone see the limp wristed handshake he gave Sam's dad at the shooting range? These two might stay together for awhile, but I don't see them long-term.

ASHLEY: This person has not been pronounced dead yet, but it's just a matter of time. There is no life behind those eyes, no pulse. It's one thing not to be attracted to your husband, but David is bending over backward and she's acknowledged that many times. Throw the guy a pitiful bone and at least hold his hand once in awhile Ashley. I'm sick and tired of hearing how shy and introverted she is. I call BS. You don't go on a reality show looking to marry someone at first sight and then whine constantly about how you hardly know the person and they need to give you some space (think Grand Canyon). David deserves better. He's not bad looking and I would bet in real life he's not as needy and desperate as he comes off right now. I don't know many men that would work this hard with someone who is clearly phoning it in. If there's any justice in this world, Ashley will pay for what she's doing to David and all the guys she's interested after this show is over will tell her they can't date a cold fish. She'll be stuck in the Twilight Zone forever, reliving this over and over again, LOL.

VANESSA: It's like she's waiting to find fault with him. Who knows how drunk he was? I can't hold my liquor...two drinks puts me to sleep. Maybe Tres is the same way. He wasn't "passed out" so much as extremely tired. Vanessa needs to stop hovering and waiting to pounce on every word or nuance that confirms to her that Tres isn't ready for marriage. I like these two. I hope they can figure this out.

 

I agree with this post totally.

 

Neil is kind of wishy washy, and he's fine but he might need a woman who doesn't mind being in charge all the time.  The problem is being in charge 100% can be draining; you want someone else to take the reins once in awhile.

 

Ashley is as cold as the day is long.  I don't buy that she's an introvert either; she looks like she's dead inside.  She's got nothing left, no life left you mean.  How can someone sign up for a show where you marry a total stranger and be THAT much of an introvert.  Something's not right.  Part of me thinks that she's hyper aware of the cameras and is worried about looking good on TV, well she looks awful on TV IMO.

 

I agree that Vanessa is looking for something to be wrong with Tres.  She's like a woman knew in college, she thought all men were dogs and dated men who proved her theory.  If Tres is a man who can only have one or two drinks and if he drank more than that, maybe that's what made him pass out.  Maybe it's the stress of having to live up to Vanessa's unrealistic expectations.  Like I said, "Vanessa, put down The Notebook."

[moonxyz]

I actually said at the very beginning that when I first saw Neil on the show, I thought he was gay.

 

I don't know if he's gay or if he's asexual or just has a slow sex drive, but there's something there that's a little different. And I don't think I've seen or heard him doing/saying anything about any sexual relationship with Sam. On the other hand, it's no wonder, the way she's been treating him.

 

See but even before she started acting like a bitch , he behaviour was very odd for someone who wanted to get laid (eventually). I don't know a single hetero guy with a normal  sex drive who would think that wearing a red onesie on the first night, was the way to woo someone. Unless this hetero guy was a virgin with no sexual experience with women. 

[PityFree]

Tres' drinking struck me as annoying/bad/inappropriate because he did it on a Sunday. When does he have to go back to work? Monday morning hangovers don't bode well for a "family provider."  

[jamblastx]

 

 

Unpopular opinion: David should be less "raw" about his father's death at this point. It is normal to be sad on Father's Day and think about your dad 23 years after he died. It is not normal to explode with anger. Enough time has passed that it shouldn't be so emotional for him every single year, especially if he knows this day is hard for him and seems to have no strategies for coping. He was almost dismissing it like "well, this day is rough, so I can't help it," which is a red flag. Of course, he is way better than Ashley, who wants nothing to do with marriage whatsoever. Sick of her wet-mop self being on my TV.

Yep...as I said in one of my posts earlier, if he cannot cope with these dates not only by blowing up but by also stating that he usually completely shuts down, he needs to seek some therapy so he can learn to cope and move forward...it's over 20 years and in his case time did not heal all wounds. 

[MelineB13]

Vanessa needs to stop hovering and waiting to pounce on every word or nuance that confirms to her that Tres isn't ready for marriage. I like these two. I hope they can figure this out.

 

Yes! This! Times 100! The two things she's blown up about (his alleged womanizing past and his drinking problem) have been after the briefest of mentions of the things. If he had spent 10 of the last 14 days drinking then yes, that is an issue. If he had said he NEVER wanted to get married then yes, that is an issue. But those are the cases. He said that he hadn't been looking for marriage which I think is fair for a mid-20 year old guy, but he was open to it. And he went out once. Yes, I admit, it's not attractive that he didn't know his limit and ended up passed out, but she's trying so hard to find the problem that she's creating one herself. 

 

Though I think that "fight" was heavily edited. I caught the fact that they used her heavy eye roll at least twice as a "reaction" to his voice over that didn't match what his lips were doing. 

 

The same thing happened with Ashley - she went on twitter to clear up that she made that comment about not wanting a stranger in her personal space about the male stripper at her bachelorette party and yet the editors have used it several times to seem like she's saying it about David. 

 

 

Tres' drinking struck me as annoying/bad/inappropriate because he did it on a Sunday. When does he have to go back to work? Monday morning hangovers don't bode well for a "family provider."

 

He works retail (luxury car salesman is still retail) so he probably doesn't have a 9-5 Monday - Friday schedule. From the way the timing appeared on screen, they moved in/consummated on a Friday night, he went to work on Saturday while Vanessa who probably does work a more standard schedule continued unpacking with the help of her sister and then Sunday they had the cook-out for Father's Day followed by him going out with her father and uncle. On Monday morning they had their fight and she mentioned that she had to get up to go to work but he was still in bed. My guess is either he didn't work at all on Monday or had a later shift. I think most car buying happens on weekends or after 5pm since most people who are purchasing those cars are working during the rest of the week. 

Edited January 6, 2016 by MelineB13

[Crumpet]

Tres has said he likes to party, and spends $200 - $300 a night at bars. Either he's the most generous person ever, only drinks $50 glasses of scotch...or drinks a lot. I'm not buying that he's a lightweight.

[Neurochick]

Tres has said he likes to party, and spends $200 - $300 a night at bars. Either he's the most generous person ever, only drinks $50 glasses of scotch...or drinks a lot. I'm not buying that he's a lightweight.

 

What type of bars and how many friends does he party with?  If he drank that much by himself every night, he wouldn't have a liver.  

 

And when he said "bars" did he really mean "strip clubs?"  

 

As for him being a player.  I believe it was someone on this very board who said that either they dated around a lot before they met their wife; or it was a woman who said her husband dated around a lot before he met her.  

 

I have a friend from college who married a man who was somewhat of a player when they met.  Then he realized that she was a lot different from the women he dated and realized if he wanted to keep her, he had to change, so he did.  

[Pepper Mostly]

I don't think Sam is that bad- but I don't think she knows what she wants. She's very impulsive. When she finally does sit & think about the situation, she can be understanding, The problem is that she doesn't do it very often- she just speaks or acts. I really like Neil, & I get why he doesn't want to swear or do anything that would embarrass his family, I don't know why Sam has to give him such a hard time. He's been so patient & so sweet & he's taken a lot of crap from her. I wish she'd get out of her own way!!

 

If I was ever on a reality show (hint, this will never, ever happen) I would be very sure to do my best to behave well! I'd be making a supreme effort not fly off the handle, yell, swear, or say mean stuff about people. I can see that Neil's point and actually applaud him for it. It can't be easy, and to me it shows his sincerity about the "process" and that he's not interested in the notoriety but is interested in doing this "its so crazy it might just work" experiment. Sam lost me when she threw out "PC". That term is basically meaningless and Sam seemed to use it to mean "polite". Ugh.

I noticed Vanessa and Tres actually dressed up for Dr. Schwartz (I'm not referring to her as a soft drink). The others kind of looked like they rolled out of bed. If Tres is a lightweight, he may have only had a few drinks and didn't necessarily "pass out" drunk. They're not out of the woods, though.

I loved what Vanessa wore for Dr. Pepper's visit! It was utterly darling and looked so nice on her. Girl knows how to put herself together. 

I do not think Tres is a lightweight. He likes to go out, he likes to drink, he loves the nightlife. I don't blame Vanessa for being a little taken aback.

 

Yes! If she liked him, she would make some effort. And it was characteristically selfish of her to take the bed to study and expect David to buzz off and go sleep somewhere else.

 

 

I actually said at the very beginning that when I first saw Neil on the show, I thought he was gay.

 

I don't know if he's gay or if he's asexual or just has a slow sex drive, but there's something there that's a little different. And I don't think I've seen or heard him doing/saying anything about any sexual relationship with Sam. On the other hand, it's no wonder, the way she's been treating him.

Could not believe Ashley threw David out of bed so she could "study". (She didn't look like she was studying--just flipping pages till David fell asleep, probably, so she could have the bed to herself).

 

I don't think Neil is gay. I don't think he's asexual or has a low sex drive, either. He and Sam have no chemistry so we're not seeing him in a context where he's responding to a person who likes him. He's a metro, hipster, ironic modern guy. He's low key and watching his step while he's being filmed. I personally think its a bit of a stretch to comment oh the man's libido in that context. As I have said many times, I'd have thrown him some play back in the day! I think he's cute and his deadpan delivery makes me laugh. I'm guessing he likes a girl who's kind of madcap and outgoing to balance out his laid back methodical-ness. Too bad the experts thought that meant Sam.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Pepper Mostly

[qtpye]

I felt so bad for Neil when he was doing the talking head about Sam's father.  He was so happy, that one eye that is bigger then the other, was bugging out with excitement and he almost had a half smile around his lips.

 

It show cased how he was starved for positive reinforcement, after living with Sam's negativity.

[AussieBabe]

That's an interesting theory and one I've been thinking about all morning. I didn't realize the timeline. I had noticed the women sneering and eye rolling myself but I thought it was over the drinking episode. Now I'll have to go back and watch it again. How did you know that the sister scene took place before the drunken episode if you don't mind me asking?

Vanessa and her sister were getting the house ready for Father's Day, and Tres went out with his father and uncle on Sunday night. It looks like he went to work on Saturday--when the ladies were unpacking. Father's Day was Sunday. She woke up Monday to presumably go to work and that was after his bender. He explained further on Twitter or something. I think somebody posted in the social media section.

[MsPH]

What the hell is wrong with Sam? She just makes no sense whatsoever. She said something about Neil only being real when she upsets him. Does she think people are only being real when they're frustrated and aggressive, cursing and throwing hissy fits? Is that why she's like that 24/7? Some people just are calm and reasonable and don't want to punch holes in walls for no reason. Shocking, I know. She knows she's full of sh*t, since she was acting like an evasive child in that conversation with Neil and Dr. Pepper. She had no problem talking crap about Neil when he wasn't there, but when he was, she got all shy and weird. She knows Dr. Pepper would judge her for treating Neil the way she usually does. Then she thinks Neil is the one with communication problems. Yeah right, because constant insults and complaints are good communication. She's so self-centered. Neil gets hotter each episode IMO. If I had to pick one guy out of all three seasons to date, I'd pick Neil for sure. No competition even.

 

I do get Ashley more than I'd care to admit and I was happy that Dr. Pepper told David they are just different. I found it weird that he didn't get at all why Ashley didn't want to have a party for 50 people right off the bat. A party like that would be a nightmare for me, especially if I was the one hosting and thus the centre of attention in a way. They could be 50 of the best people in the world, I'd still be overwhelmed and unable to be myself. Too many people for an audience, too many people competing for attention. I always end up being the silent observer in a crowd and that's not how I want new people to see me. I don't want them to think I'm a mute freak, because one-on-one or in a small group I'm not. That's why I'd rather meet new people in small groups, so they can get to know me a bit and see I'm a friendly person really. Ashley wanting to meet David's friends in smaller doses was a good sign to me, made me think she cares what they'll think of her. If she had totally given up, she wouldn't care. He just seems totally clueless about different personality types and doesn't get that trying harder isn't gonna work with Ashley. Yes, she should try harder herself, but the night before a big exam might not be the best time to try and make her. She was obviously distracted and tired from filming all day.

 

I did get a good chuckle out of Ashley describing herself as talkative, but perhaps she is around people who have no romantic interest in her? That makes me wonder if she's like this around all men who are interested in her or just men who she isn't interested in? It could go both ways to be honest. I do wonder about her 9-year-relationship. It couldn't have been very intimate if she's still this guarded. 

 

I totally get Vanessa as well. Call me uptight or a bore if you like, but I just don't like drunk people and I wouldn't even date let alone marry a person who is big on partying and drinking. It's just off-putting to me. If you like it then by all means, party on, but it's best for everyone to find a like-minded person for a partner. I couldn't respect or be attracted to a guy who comes home plastered on a regular basis. Sure, it's only happened once so far with Tres, but he's spelled it out several times now that he looooves to party. Last week when they talking about finances he also said something about blowing massive amount of money on nights out, so the theory that he only has a couple of drinks and can't handle them is not plausible to me. Clearly he's a sponge. I'm also not giving him any credit for changing his ways for the two weeks they've been married. That won't last. And it shouldn't. He should be able to enjoy his life, but so should Vanessa, and if a drunken unreliable player for husband doesn't fit the picture, then it's best they divorce sooner rather than later. They'll only be miserable if they try to make each other change.

 

I'm also annoyed by the experts putting opposites together and hoping they somehow fix each other's "problems". First of all, who says they are problems to begin with? And second of all, it's not a recipe for a lasting relationship. Sure and extravert might make an introvert open up, but that doesn't mean their interests and lifestyles will ever mesh. Yes, relationships require compromise, but if everything's a compromise, then it's just not worth it. If one person wants to go to parties and events all the time and do this and that, while the other person just wants to chill at home and watch a movie or read a book, then one of you will always be bored or stressed and not enjoying themselves. It would be much easier to be with someone who enjoys similar things, so you can enjoy yourselves together, at the same time.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

About David: how ever a person grieves, is how ever a person grieves -- and that's OK. Grief tends to be especially difficult for those who never got 'closure'. 

 

Holidays, birthdays, and anniversaries are extremely difficult for a *lot* of people. Myself included. I would normally just keep my feelings to myself without saying a word. But I think one comment that David made was very "telling": he remarked that he had hoped being married would help him to overcome this manifestation of grief, and it obviously didn't turn out that way. (Not a reasonable expectation to have from marriage, of course --but being with someone who truly loves you and is always there to listen without judgement when you need to get something off your chest, can indeed help old, festering emotional wounds to finally begin the healing process.)

 

I don't think Tres is an alcoholic because he [may have] literally passed out from drinking too much. 

I think he may be an alcoholic because he acted like it was perfectly normal for that to happen when he's 'having a little fun'.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Crazy Bird Lady

[seasick]

I don't think Sam and Neil are living together. When they woke up at the beginning of the episode: clue 1) Sam's phone was on the table but not hooked to a charger, and it's inconceivable that someone would sleep without charging her phone; clue 2) Neil had a weekend bag suitcase next to the bed; clue 3) the microwave clock was black and the oven clock was flashing, and no one would be able to live with that without resetting them. Also, not a clue but rather another mystery: Why do they have a couch in the bedroom but no couch in the living room?!

Every time David attempts to talk to Ashley about their relationship, he gets increasingly fidgety spinning his ring as she deflects answering.

I love these little clues that you pick up on.  I re-watched so I could see. 

 

Speaking of "camera" personas, Why is it that Sam seems to spring these observations and criticisms on Neil only when there is a camera around.   It's obvious, at least in this case that he had not heard this "camera Neil" criticism before the camera arrived.  

He always seems blind-sided, because I don't think she says this stuff off-camera,. That's  "Camera Sam".

[Neurochick]

I totally get Vanessa as well. Call me uptight or a bore if you like, but I just don't like drunk people and I wouldn't even date let alone marry a person who is big on partying and drinking. It's just off-putting to me. If you like it then by all means, party on, but it's best for everyone to find a like-minded person for a partner. I couldn't respect or be attracted to a guy who comes home plastered on a regular basis. Sure, it's only happened once so far with Tres, but he's spelled it out several times now that he looooves to party. Last week when they talking about finances he also said something about blowing massive amount of money on nights out, so the theory that he only has a couple of drinks and can't handle them is not plausible to me. Clearly he's a sponge. I'm also not giving him any credit for changing his ways for the two weeks they've been married. That won't last. And it shouldn't. He should be able to enjoy his life, but so should Vanessa, and if a drunken unreliable player for husband doesn't fit the picture, then it's best they divorce sooner rather than later. They'll only be miserable if they try to make each other change.

 

 

I wouldn't want to date or marry someone who parties all the time.  I wonder if Vanessa mentioned how she feels about drinking to the experts; maybe Vanessa didn't know how she felt about Tres drinking until Tres came home drunk.

 

Tres will only change when he decides it's worth it to change and, unless the person is an alcoholic,  that could be for a job or a relationship.  No one can make a person change, but sometimes people will change for others.  

 

BTW, you're not an alcoholic because of the amount you drink or how often you drink; you're an alcoholic when you HAVE to drink, or else you don't feel normal.  

Edited January 6, 2016 by Neurochick

[Jack Sampson]

Sam is "indifferent" to the marriage...big surprise. Neil should have just left, but he won't. I'd bet Neil has never left a woman in his life. He'd rather sit there and quietly take whatever is thrown at him. There's literally no way a damaged woman like Sam will ever respect him and Pepper's pep talk will last about an hour.

Pretty sure Neil isn't attracted to her either, he's just so afraid of conflict that he'll endure anything.

Regarding his virginity - he did have an ex girlfriend on the show. I'm younger than Neil so maybe my terminology is different than the older crowd, but she's not your girlfriend until after sex (at least a few times and presumed exclusivity). I've never even heard of someone being called a girlfriend without sex being involved. And I doubt he's gay.

Sam's dad is pretty cool. He didn't do a good job raising his daughter though.

Vanessa is acting crazy about Tres going out - it's okay to be a little angry but to jump right into the "he's not ready for marriage" line is extreme. Not the first time we've seen her overreact to something simple. At least she didn't cry this time.

Tres's dad needs to lose some weight. Not sure how old he is but he looks like he can barely walk. I think Vanessa saw that and realized Tres isn't going to age well.

So, according to Dr. C, David is supposed to break through Ashley's walls? Great, what's in it for him? A lifetime of intimacy and (probably) sexual problems? Hard pass. Why not match David with someone who likes to talk and perhaps even have fun on occasion?

Notice, it was late, Ashley didn't mention studying until David wanted to talk. Then quickly put her book down when he went downstairs.

I also don't think David is very attracted to Ashley - how could he be? He's committed to the process, he doesn't want to admit that all of his friends were right about this and he's a salesman - he wants to win her over, even if the "prize" has no value.

I think that the experts' solution to last season was to find some guys who would tolerate anything, hoping the women would stick around for...reasons.

[cpcathy]

I deleted the episode pretty early on, so I didn't see David storming out, but, frankly, if you're still storming out of rooms when someone mentions a dead relative some twenty years later, you do need therapy to move past it. It's part of life. My mother died when I was 17 (over twenty years ago, ahem) and I can't imagine behaving like that, even under stress. My life is here and now and not something that happened over twenty years ago. Yes, I can still mourn, but need to live.

[Neurochick]

Regarding his virginity - he did have an ex girlfriend on the show. I'm younger than Neil so maybe my terminology is different than the older crowd, but she's not your girlfriend until after sex (at least a few times and presumed exclusivity). I've never even heard of someone being called a girlfriend without sex being involved. And I doubt he's gay.

 

 

Interesting.  When I was in college, decades ago, you didn't have to screw to be a girlfriend.  

 

Tres's dad needs to lose some weight. Not sure how old he is but he looks like he can barely walk. I think Vanessa saw that and realized Tres isn't going to age well.

 

 

Well we don't know what his mother looks like, DNA comes from both sides, and I didn't think Tres' dad was THAT fat, but I'm older and in the 70's we didn't think being a size 00 was normal.

 

I deleted the episode pretty early on, so I didn't see David storming out, but, frankly, if you're still storming out of rooms when someone mentions a dead relative some twenty years later, you do need therapy to move past it. It's part of life. My mother died when I was 17 (over twenty years ago, ahem) and I can't imagine behaving like that, even under stress. My life is here and now and not something that happened over twenty years ago. Yes, I can still mourn, but need to live.

 

 

As for David's still mourning his father, people grieve differently, and just because they don't do what others think they should do, doesn't mean they need therapy.  Sometimes I think there is this narrow parameter as to what normal is and if you fall on either side of it, you  need therapy.  Not always the case.  I think David was just frustrated because he's married to a robot.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Neurochick

[qtpye]

Wouldn't it be great if David could be married from Jacklyn from last season?  They both are very lively bubbly people in sales, who are seriously looking for a relationship.

 

Also, Davina from last season would be great with Neil.  I know she only dated white men, but maybe Neil is white enough (stupid question)?  Anyway, she would be demanding he move to Manhattan and he would be like "Cool, not a big deal".

 

Also, Sean from last season needs to be hooked up with Sam.  He is Christan Grey sexual and she wants to be dominated (ugly image in my head...must drink bleach to forget).

 

I know in reality, geography would make these matches impossible, but one can dream.

[cardigirl]

Just popping in to say that for some reason I really enjoyed this episode. I know I'm in the minority here, but I've been hoping the show would be so much better than that train wreck last season, because I really enjoyed season one, and this episode was a good one, at least for me.

 

I don't like Sam so far, and I worry about why Ashley is on the show, as she has no real affection for David, but other than that, I'm enjoying seeing these couples try to navigate to a real relationship.  Probably isn't going to happen for any of them, but the show seems a bit 'sweeter' in tone this season.

 

JMO. It seems most people on here see Season 3 as a disaster all around, so I thought I'd post a dissenting POV.

[ciaoformeow]

I've avoided commenting on the season up to this point, because you guys have it pretty much summed up.  However this episode I wanted to ask about the reason for Davids outburst. Sure, it seemed like it was out of left field, but in reality if we think about the timeline, it really makes sense.  

 

He's been trying to break down Ashleys wall (and real talk, that wall must be made out of the same thing Wolverines bones are made of).

He's been the only one trying in their marriage.  She clearly is repulsed by him.. his looks, being around him, even speaking to him. But she's clearly able to smile and be friendly and warm, as we saw with her and his mother and her and Doc Pepper. 

 

So now he has taken the time to actually express to her in advance that fathers day is going to be hard for him. To me, that was him giving her a gentle warning that he was going to be emotional. It was also probably his queue that if there is anytime he NEEDS her affection, it's going to be on a day that reminds him of his fathers death. Then the day comes and all he really was looking for (though he didn't express this) is a hug, a touch - something to let him know that she cared. Instead her cold ass was business as usual. I'd flip out too at that point.

 

Seriously, if she had just hugged him, or held his hand that morning when he woke up, that outburst would have never happened - I feel. 

 

 

Sam and Neil --  SIDE NOTE: sorry, but I am INTO Neil. He's cute, I loved his beard when it was longer, he has kissable lips , and he's willing to please. 

 

But anyway, at some point I really wish the "experts" would step in and make it REQUIRED homework that they show affection or intimacy in some way.  I've seen a number of marriage counselors that advise married couples who are in a "sexless" marriage (for example) that the #1 assignment they suggest is asking the couple to be intimate even when they really don't want to be. I don't think they need to have sex, but I think holding hands, hugging and kissing would really put Ashley and Sams guards down so they'd be more open to at least giving this experiment a real shot. 

[ciaoformeow]

Oh and the whole OFF CAMERA neil vs ON CAMERA -- what is wrong with putting on your best face for the camera? I sure as hell would. 

But on a deeper level, I don't get WHY that would bother her. She says she likes the off camera neil better.. doesn't she realize THAT is who she would be married to? The damn cameras won't be there after the 6 weeks are up, and damn sure won't be there throughout a marriage. So who cares if he is more PC and doesn't curse on camera (that was the difference SHE said)??