S02.E10: Palindrome

[AuntiePam]

Correction:  Hanzee didn't shoot Ed--because his gun was empty!

 

That's true, but it wasn't empty when he first came to the cabin.  That might be what donkeyshot was referring to -- I'm not sure.

[donkeyshot]

Suddenly Charlie can not reload his gun while shooting Ed. He did very well reloading en shooting showing Dodd. Why did Charlie volunteer to shoot Ed - so he can fake it? Hanzee did one shot on Dodd en two on Lou and Hank. Maybe he knew he had only 3 bullets in his gun before he 'shoots' Ed. Peggy doesn't want to cut Hanzee's hair, that's why she's hasitating and uses no water and comb.

[donkeyshot]

Auntiepam I think Otto had a son with a native american woman and that's why he was taken in when Hanzee was 8? y/o. That's why they call him halfbreed and mongrel. Excuse my language.

[Stratego]

Suddenly Charlie can not reload his gun while shooting Ed. He did very well reloading en shooting showing Dodd. Why did Charlie volunteer to shoot Ed - so he can fake it? Hanzee did one shot on Dodd en two on Lou and Hank. Maybe he knew he had only 3 bullets in his gun before he 'shoots' Ed. Peggy doesn't want to cut Hanzee's hair, that's why she's hasitating and uses no water and comb.

Charlie volunteered because (in his logic) when someone kills a Gerhardt that person should be killed by a Gerhardt.

[AuntiePam]

donkeyshot, it was a different situation when Charlie was in the butcher shop.  Not so easy to quickly reload when someone's coming at you.  He panicked.

[donkeyshot]

Yes, but he missed and couldn't reload. In the meanwhile Ed butchers another Gerhardt- man. No one expected there would be a fire. Noreen saves Charlie .. and they will be lovebirds forever.

[donkeyshot]

Auntiepam Panicking and then shot by your own man Friddle -what's his name- they made an agreement at the phone booth. Before going in to the butcher shop. Dodd said Friddle had to back up Charlie. It wasn't Friddle's intention to shoot Charlie. The bullet bounced of.  So now I think of it Ed was being shot 3 times and got away.

 

Favorite quote by Watson's "Those Selectrics are like Spaceships"

 

Sadest thing when Betsy finds the balloon "Get well soon!"

Edited December 13, 2015 by donkeyshot

[ChipBach]

Correction:  Hanzee didn't shoot Ed--because his gun was empty!

And Peggy didn't kill Rye - Ed did.

donkeyshot, it was a different situation when Charlie was in the butcher shop.  Not so easy to quickly reload when someone's coming at you.  He panicked.

Also - Charlies gun jammed - clearing a jammed gun is harder for a one handed person to do than load it.

[donkeyshot]

Peggy did not kill Rye but she tried to. Peggy did not kill Dodd but she tried to. Ed finished of Rye and Hanzee finished of Dodd. Seems like Peggy is the new BBT.

Edited December 13, 2015 by donkeyshot

[donkeyshot]

 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV-uNoOU8AAWhJL.jpg:largevia Twitter #FargoSeason2

[donkeyshot]

Simone is killed by Hanzee too. He knew she would babble around when he asks about Rye. The next thing you know is the typewriter salesman is burried and Bear shoots his own niece .. and then there's Mike and the kitchen brother ..

[Ohwell]

But Hanzee didn't kill Simone.  Bear did.  Right?

[donkeyshot]

I mean Hanzee manipulated the whole thing. He gave the adress of Paris hotel to Bear. So Bear watched Simone coming out the hotel where Mike stays. 'Sleeping with the enemy'.

 

And Hanzee gave the adress of the Motor hotel at Bear too. Stupid Bear. 'There's all cops'.

Edited December 14, 2015 by donkeyshot

[Ohwell]

OK, got it.

[GodsBeloved]

Looking forward to tonight!

Edited December 14, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[AimingforYoko]

Well, any episode was going to pale next to last week, but this was definitely a comedown.

The Solverson stuff was great, especially at the end. I enjoyed seeing the old gang in Betsy's "vision".

Wow, Peggy actually loved the big lug. Poor Ed, never wanted anything more than to buy the shop and have some kids to hand it down to.

I like that after Peggy's little speech in the squad car (which had some nuggets of truth amongst the crazy), Lou simply countered with, "People died."

And Mike ends up like Vic Mackey.

[Eyes High]

I laughed at Mike's fate. Be careful what you wish for, indeed. He got exactly what he wanted--to be accepted by the KC establishment as someone useful and valuable, someone with leadership potential--but at what cost?

 

Loved the reveal that Hanzee is the Fargo mob boss who got wiped out by Malvo in Season 1. I guess since we see him large and in charge in Fargo in Season 1, and since he announced his intention of wiping out the KC boys, that Mike and Adam Arkin's character are destined to see the KC empire crumble at some point between 1979 and 2006.

 

Hawley throwing in gratuitous sexist bullshit in the finale again establishes a disturbing pattern. Lou going on about how it's men's burden to protect their womenfolk, especially when 1) the police did fuck all to protect Peggy and 2) she was the one protecting Ed--and crisply shutting down Peggy pouring her heart out about how she felt trapped in her life with a "PEOPLE ARE DEAD" as if her feelings of being victimized by the wider culture that forces women into limited roles were meaningless was some nonsense. The treatment of Peggy's wish for a life beyond wife/mother as just another one of her quaint delusions and of Peggy as the independent, ambitious Bad Girl to Betsy's patient, resigned, devoted Good Woman was retrogressive nonsense even for 1979. It was downright Victorian. I call bullshit.

 

I'm looking forward to the more feminist TV critics tearing Hawley a new asshole for that bullshit. He deserves it.

 

What a weirdly-paced finale. It felt very inert.

 

Good to get closure on Simone, although I suppose Charlie will be a question mark.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Eyes High

[Primetimer]

Let's talk about our last moments in 1979.

Read the story

[CynicalGirl]

Mike got his very own IBM Selectric!

[Chaos Theory]

Well this season goes for irony.

 

Everyone gets exactly what they want....just not the way they want it.

 

Mike gets all the praise and respect he wants from the Kansas city bosses but all it gets him is a small office and a 9 to 5 job.  Peggy gets her freedom from a life she didn't want but at the expense of Ed's life and her actual freedom.   Speaking of which i really did like the scene between Lou and Peggy in the car it was really well done.  It was a little sexist yes but it fit with the time and who Lou an Peggy are but it did ring of some truth and so did what Betsy said about life and how when you are standing in front of God how stupid it would sound repeating some french joke.  

 

This was by no means as action packed as the previous episode but it wasn't supposed to be.  It was supposed to move all the survivors to their endgame and I thought it did a good job of doing that.  Especially Peggy,  Lou and Mike. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[ToastnBacon]

Besty's vision was a tribute to Rasing Arizona. I can't say that it was word for word the same little speech that Nicolas Cage gave at the end of the movie, but it was damn close.

The entire opening sequence was fantastic, especially the Black Sabbath music.

I was amused at how Mike ended up in a tiny office. He wanted to be a big bad crime boss, and the corporate boss told him they have drones for that.

Hilarious!

[tennisgurl]

Its Little Wrench and Numbers! It totally was them, right? Man, of all the characters I thought we were going to check in on from season one, I am pleasantly surprised its them.

 

Great, lovely finale. I feel like there was a ton going on, and I am going to have to think about it more, but for now, I just want to bask in the glory of such a great season.

 

The fate of Mike Milligan was probably my favorite though. The wild days of the 70s are over. Its 80s corporations and golf games now.

[lyric]

Its Little Wrench and Numbers! It totally was them, right? Man, of all the characters I thought we were going to check in on from season one, I am pleasantly surprised its them.

 

Great, lovely finale. I feel like there was a ton going on, and I am going to have to think about it more, but for now, I just want to bask in the glory of such a great season.

 

The fate of Mike Milligan was probably my favorite though. The wild days of the 70s are over. Its 80s corporations and golf games now.

 +1 to all of this.  Yeah, I loved the callback to 'deaf fella' and 'deaf fella's partner'.   Surprisingly quiet finale, but this whole season has done a great job of taking the unexpected path, so this is no different, really.

 

The only pacing issue I had was the time spent in the Gerherdts' house with Bear's lackey and the kind / cruel business - that seemed unnecessarily lengthy, but minor quibble with an outstanding season of television.  Bring on Season 3.

[Valny]

Well that was a let down. It started out great and I liked the  Peggy and Ed stuff, but after that, it just kind of fell flat for me. I have a rotten memory so I don't recall what happened in the S1 finale, but I know it was way better than this. I know, it's two different seasons blah blah blah, but I think I was just expecting something a lot more intense throughout. It was so... talky.  I can't believe it but I actually was checking out some stuff on my tablet during some scenes.

 

Someone jog my memory... in S1, does Lou have a little limp? For some reason I thought he did, so I was just waiting for something to happen to his leg, but it never did.

 

ETA- I was so surprised to see grown Molly again. What a nice surprise. (and the rest of her family too)  Did they not show Allison Tolman's name in the opening credits?( Wait, do they even have the cast names in the opening?) I know they do at the end.  Whatever, it's always nice to see someone show up that you are not expecting.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Valny

[bosawks]

There should be a special Emmy category for Patrick Wilson's furrowed brow.

[Nutjob]

Its Little Wrench and Numbers! It totally was them, right? Man, of all the characters I thought we were going to check in on from season one, I am pleasantly surprised its them.

That was my reaction...I think I squeed out loud at little Wrench and Numbers!

So many Coen call outs this ep--Betsy's dream, Mike's "friendo", the man in the car stopping to help and getting shot, just to name a few.

Poor Ed. And Peggy still going on about California. Hanzee is Tripoli, and Mike winds up with a desk job.

[beadgirl]

 

Hawley throwing in gratuitous sexist bullshit in the finale again establishes a disturbing pattern. Lou going on about how it's men's burden to protect their womenfolk, especially when 1) the police did fuck all to protect Peggy and 2) she was the one protecting Ed--and crisply shutting down Peggy pouring her heart out about how she felt trapped in her life with a "PEOPLE ARE DEAD" as if her feelings of being victimized by the wider culture that forces women into limited roles were meaningless was some nonsense. The treatment of Peggy's wish for a life beyond wife/mother as just another one of her quaint delusions and of Peggy as the Bad Girl to Betsy's patient, resigned, devoted Good Woman was retrogressive nonsense even for 1979. I call bullshit.

I disagree.  A lot of what Peggy was saying was generally true, but Peggy herself is responsible for the mess that is her life -- her failure to get her act together, to actually talk to Ed about what she wanted, to think about the consequences of her actions, and so on.  A lot of people really did die as the result of her choices, so for her to blame the patriarchy for the way her life turned out was a bit much. 

 

I laughed at Mike's fate; it seemed like a twisted version of the last scene in Working Girl.

 

The episode in general was anticlimactic, but there were some lovely moments.  And that guy (forget his name) turned out not to be such a shit cop after all.

[sunflower]

This episode just about broke my heart.  I couldn't stop crying and still feel teary.  And Ted Danson's speech about one language at the end?  It killed me, man.  

 

I just finished binge watching season 1 and was so happy to see the little kid versions of Numbers and Wrench.  

[Midnight Cheese]

I thought this was exceptionally well-paced and written.   Man, poor Ed and I'll write it, poor Peg.  Noreen having a conversation she didn't expect about Camus and Sisyphus with Betsy.  What shocked me the most was the Gerhardt's Third Reich family flag, seeing Mike crammed into that grim little office and advised on the virtues of golf lessons, and Hank's reference to Blissymbols - that last bit really, really got to me. 

[Rhetorica]

I guess Bear did kill Simone...I didn't think she made it out alive, but damn! His niece! Great to see the first season cast! More great music, 'Black Sabbath ~ War Pigs! After that, I found it a let down. It certainly tied into the Malaise speech in the first episode. Yes, I know that's not the title but that's the name it came to be known. They should have ended last week with some ambiguity instead of wrapping everything up. It became too didactic.

[bmoore4026]

This is the episode (and the whole season) in summation (minus the laughing):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQTMLiCwwGE

 

Seriously though, everything felt empty, but that was the point.  Peggy's lost everything and poor Ed is dead, Mike got screwed out of his "title of majesty", and Hansee's going to become Billy Bob Thorton (pretty sure).

 

Nihilistic Butcher Girl (or whatever her name was) really needs to keep her mouth shut.  If I were dying and some one quoted Camus to me, I'd use every bit of my remaining strength to either throw them down stairs or out a window.

 

But Lou and Hank and Betsy (for now) and Molly have all made it.  So that's what's important.

 

Kirsten Dunst was amazing this whole series.  She was the opposite of Martin Freeman's character in that I wanted her to win some how.  Hope she gets some award nominations out of this, along with Jean Smart.

 

See y'all next year.

[Bort]

Someone jog my memory... in S1, does Lou have a little limp? For some reason I thought he did, so I was just waiting for something to happen to his leg, but it never did.

He does but Molly said that Lou's injury was what ultimately caused him to retire so I wasn't expecting him to get shot in it here. I noticed that Future Lou in Betsy's dream had a limp (in Molly's high school graduation scene.)

[Eyes High]

I disagree.  A lot of what Peggy was saying was generally true, but Peggy herself is responsible for the mess that is her life -- her failure to get her act together, to actually talk to Ed about what she wanted, to think about the consequences of her actions, and so on.  A lot of people really did die as the result of her choices, so for her to blame the patriarchy for the way her life turned out was a bit much. 

 

I laughed at Mike's fate; it seemed like a twisted version of the last scene in Working Girl.

 

The episode in general was anticlimactic, but there were some lovely moments.  And that guy (forget his name) turned out not to be such a shit cop after all.

 

MIke's fate was the darkest humour perhaps in the entire show to date. So perfectly grim while being so perfectly written, especially if you've ever been on one of the receiving end of the speech Adam Arkin's character gave to Mike about how to get ahead in corporate culture, which I have. I, too, was advised to take up golfing. And of course Adam Arkin would be all oily chumminess and bonhomie now that Mike has "shown his worth" and things were going well, as opposed to spitting vicious contempt and bile at Mike when things were going badly and he needed someone to blame. I know that boss. I've had that boss.

 

As for Peggy, sure, she was the author of her own misfortune, but Lou could have pointed out that her desire for independence could have been addressed in a more constructive way, or that there were other ways of pursuing the freedom she craved. He could have pointed out that her fate and Ed's had nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with her shitty decisions and her inability to face reality. Instead, he eulogized Ed for "protecting" Peggy--when in fact she did most of the protecting--and engaged in philosophical musing about men's "privilege" of protecting helpless womenfolk--which is especially rich in a series where the men had a talent for getting themselves and the people around them killed, and where Dodd and Otto's brand of toxic masculinity seems to have led to the Gerhardts' downfall--all the while sneering at Peggy's heartfelt outburst about being trapped in her life with a curt "PEOPLE ARE DEAD." It was some sexist garbage.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Eyes High

[Nutjob]

Notice we didn’t find out what happened to Charlie.

Hmmm...

[Eyes High]

Notice we didn’t find out what happened to Charlie.

Hmmm...

 

Does it really matter? Assuming Hanzee succeeded in wiping out the KC outfit and in ascending to power as the Fargo mob boss, which I think we can now safely say is what happens, I doubt Charlie would last long once released from prison. I don't think Hanzee would show him any more mercy than he showed the rest of the Gerhardts. Until Hawley says otherwise, I assume Charlie will stay alive while in prison and be murdered shortly after getting out. Someone with his specific disability is going to have trouble blending in or reinventing his identity the way Hanzee was able to do.

 

Hopefully, someone will ask about Charlie in a post-2x10 interview.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Eyes High

[Nutjob]

Does it really matter?

It might not to you, but the episode went to painstaking detail to show us the fate of every member of the Gerhardt clan we've met except Charlie. We even know exactly how Hanzee meets his end. Perhaps those of us who stick around for season 3 will see Charlie again.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Nutjob

[Lorimac]

For me this was the weakest episode. I felt like the writers were tidying up with a broom after the big parade that was last week.

[bagatelle]

Seriously though, everything felt empty, but that was the point.  Peggy's lost everything and poor Ed is dead, Mike got screwed out of his "title of majesty", and Hansee's going to become Billy Bob Thorton (pretty sure).

 

That would have made sense, facially, but Hanzee became Mr. Tripoli, who was the Fargo mob boss in Season One.  We didn't see him very much and he was killed by Malvo at the Fargo mob headquarters.

 

Thing is, Mr. Tripoli really looked different from what Hanzee looks like now, so Billy Bob would have been more believable.

[Eyes High]

It might not to you, but the episode went to painstaking detail to show us the fate of every member of the Gerhardt clan we've met except Charlie. We even know exactly how Hanzee meets his end. Perhaps those of us who stick around for season 3 will see Charlie again.

 

I meant that he's not exactly destined for a long life, if Hanzee is "Tripoli"; Charlie has nowhere to go once he gets out of prison but to an early grave. Hanzee won't spare him, and if he is Tripoli, he'll have the clout to make sure Charlie joins his family.

Also, if the show does jump ahead in time substantially for a future season, Charlie can't be recast, as it's unlikely they'll find an older actor with an arm like Allan Dobrescu's (Charlie). That can't really be faked.

I mean, I'm going to have to talk to some fanfic about it, because I really liked Charlie, but I don't see any other way it plays out.

 

As for Hanzee looking nothing like Mr. Tripoli, I thought it was spelled out that he was going to get plastic surgery and get a newer, whiter face. Hanzee will also get what he wants--clout, autonomy, respect, an escape from the racism of "this life," i.e. the life of a Native American in North Dakota in 1979--at the cost of something that was precious to him: his Lakota identity.

 

This episode also explained how Mr. Numbers and Mr. Wrench became hitmen. Hanzee rescued them from the bullies and took them under his wing, hopefully in a healthier way than the Gerhardts took him under their wing, and brought them up to be part of his organization.

 

Was the Gerhardt flag with the black eagle supposed to suggest that they were Nazis?

Edited December 15, 2015 by Eyes High

[Dev F]

So I've been ambivalent about the past few episodes -- the characters, dialogue, and visuals have been typically strong, but the convoluted yet overly convenient plotting was starting to grate on me. (For instance, I don't really get why there were two completely separate reasons for Ed and Peggy to end up in Sioux Falls: first, because Peggy's seminar was there, and second, because Ed's uncle just happened to have a cabin in one of the towns outside the city.)

 

But this episode jettisoned most of the plotty-plot-plot nonsense to just explore the characters, which allowed the season to go out on top. I loved pretty much all of it -- particularly the way it casts the whole rest of the season in a new light. The sense I got way back in the premiere was that the season was going to be about Lou coming to terms with the idea of raising his daughter alone following the imminent death of his wife. But in the end I realize that it's more about Betsy making peace with her own death, realizing that there are good people all around her and she doesn't have to fear the world they'll make for her daughter.

 

That's why it's so important that Hank's mysterious hieroglyphs are revealed to be not some sign of alien influence but an ordinary man's attempt to make the world a more peaceful and harmonious place. Suddenly the future isn't some inexplicable alien construct; it's us, striving, in pain but in hope, to bring people together. And Betsy can finally close her eyes and work her way to the end.

 

And the fact that Betsy becomes such a central character in the end is why I don't see the finale as some sort of sexist statement. Oh, there are certainly gender stereotypes at work in the way Lou figures defense of family as a man's privilege. But just before, when the screen splits to mirror him and Betsy as the latter insists that life is about doing a job in the time that's given to you, the episode suggests that Betsy is committed to the same goal. It's not about a man's place vs. a woman's place, I don't think; it's about ambition vs. responsibility. Peggy is undone for the same reason that our male antiheroes Lester Nygard and Jerry Lundegaard will be: because she scrambles after a life she doesn't have instead of being content with the life she has and making the most of it.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Dev F

[ToastnBacon]

Well that was a let down. It started out great and I liked the Peggy and Ed stuff, but after that, it just kind of fell flat for me. I have a rotten memory so I don't recall what happened in the S1 finale, but I know it was way better than this. I know, it's two different seasons blah blah blah, but I think I was just expecting something a lot more intense throughout. It was so... talky. I can't believe it but I actually was checking out some stuff on my tablet during some scenes.

Someone jog my memory... in S1, does Lou have a little limp? For some reason I thought he did, so I was just waiting for something to happen to his leg, but it never did.

ETA- I was so surprised to see grown Molly again. What a nice surprise. (and the rest of her family too) Did they not show Allison Tolman's name in the opening credits?( Wait, do they even have the cast names in the opening?) I know they do at the end. Whatever, it's always nice to see someone show up that you are not expecting.

You wanted explosions and a good old car chase like an episode of Mannix?

I was disappointed that they didn't have Lou stop to help the Swedish bikini volleyball team change a flat tire on the way back to Minnesota.

Edited December 15, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[Knuckles]

"sneering at Peggy's heartfelt outburst about being trapped in her life with a curt "PEOPLE ARE DEAD."

 

I had a somewhat different take on this. Peggy's effort to explain herself, largely to herself, though Lou was present was just that...an effort to understand how her efforts at actualization and to realize for herself the "you can have it all" mantra of the 70s lead to such a disaster. She was an avid student, following the zeitgeist, and yet it ended in death and destruction. Narcissist though she is, she is deeply confused, indeed betrayed. She read all the self-help books, attended the seminars given by those who held out the promise of a full and happy life if only she could get with the program. It is really true to the 70s. 

Lou, though, is the antithesis of the early feminist movement, and it's opposition. His is the traditional view, that a man's worth is measured in how he protects and provides for his family, and risks danger in the larger world to do that. 

Two opposing social viewpoints, meet head on in the squad car, and there is no resolution between the two. Just messy reality.

[Eyes High]

But this episode jettisoned most of the plotty-plot-plot nonsense to just explore the characters, which allowed the season to go out on top.

 

I was fine with "exploring the characters." I was not fine with the form it took, namely the pretentious, self-consciously philosophical speeches: Mike defining "sovereignty" and going on about being the king was probably the worst (like Tarantino on his worst day terrible, and the world does not need more shitty Tarantino imitators, Tarantino himself is quite enough Tarantino for this world), but Lou's interminable anecdote about the dude trying to land the fucking Chinook--although I hoped the reference to the "Chinook" was some sort of Alberta shoutout--and half-baked musings about the "burden" and "privilege" of, well, male privilege, was also egregious, as well as being sexist. (It also seemed that even though he was talking about a Vietnamese man trying to save his family, Lou when talking about the "rock" was talking about white male privilege, and it's no coincidence that he identified with Ed in this respect, another white male: I'm sure Hanzee and Mike, two previously marginalized POC treated like subhuman garbage unworthy of anything other than lackey status, would have been completely sympathetic towards Lou's discussion of the "burden" of being powerful because of the responsibility it entails.)

 

Moreover, none of it was interesting, witty, or profound. Some of it (Lou's monologue) was fucking offensive. If you're going to subject your audience to long-winded speeches, there had damn better be something worthwhile for making them suffer through it. You've got to be interesting enough, profound enough, or witty enough. It was 0 for 3 in this episode, over and over and over again.

 

There's a time and place for stylized dialogue, but just as with the obnoxious Jabberwocky recitation, in between Hank, Lou, Betsy, and Mike, this episode pushed it way too far. Nobody talks like that. Nobody talks like that! It's particularly galling given that we do have some excellent dialogue that rings completely true (Adam Arkin's fantastic "welcome to corporate culture" speech). Given all the media coverage of The Force Awakens, I couldn't help but be reminded in several instances of Harrison Ford's infamous burn of George Lucas' terrible dialogue: "You can type this shit, George, but you sure as hell can't say it."

Edited December 15, 2015 by Eyes High

[bagatelle]

As for Hanzee looking nothing like Mr. Tripoli, I thought it was spelled out that he was going to get plastic surgery and get a newer, whiter face. 

 

Yes, he said plastic surgery, but Mr. Tripoli had a nose 4 times the size, if I remember correctly.  How could it stay on a person's face? Well, I believed the flying saucer, I guess I can believe this.

[numbnut]

For me this was the weakest episode. I felt like the writers were tidying up with a broom after the big parade that was last week.

 

Yeah, it was a bit anticlimactic after the showiness of last week's ep. Some nice moments but a little too neat and tidy IMO. I liked the callbacks to Raising Arizona and how Lou's hunting of Hanzee was straight out of No Country for Old Men. Kirsten is great. It took a while for me to buy the accent but she killed it.

[thuganomics85]

Surprised the chase actually ended pretty quickly, and the rest of the episode ended up being much slower.  Didn't have the intensity the first season finale had, but a lot of great character moments, and definitely some scenes I suspect Kirsten Dunst, Patrick Wilson, and Ted Danson will be submitting come Emmy time.

 

Oh, Ed.  I figured it was destined to be this way.  I always suspected that Peggy would managed to make it out breathing, but he would be a casualty of some kind. The thing is that I really do believe Peggy loved him, even if she had an insane way of showing it a lot of times.  But I think her grief was real.

 

I'm of two minds with the big Peggy/Lou scene.  On one hand, I do think Lou was showing some old-fashion views about women and men, and he will really never understand how hard it is for someone like Peggy, and everything she has to deal with and is expected of her.  On the other hand, Peggy really isn't as big of a victim as she claims.  Whatever Rye may or may not have done, as far as she knew, she ran over a guy and didn't tell anyone.  And that act alone really did kick-start this entire thing. Maybe Peggy did end up being a victim of some kind in all of this, but she put herself in this situation.  And she even had several chances to get ahead of it, but kept refusing.  In the end though, I think this is the perfect ending for her.  She lives and survives it all, but looses her husband and her freedom.

 

Surprised Hank pulled through.  I figured he would have been an easy choice for a tragic death, but the show sure can surprise me.  Then again, they even spared us Betsy dying, thankfully.  Sure, it is destined to happen, but I can at least enjoy them as a happy family until the end.

 

Also totally surprised that both Mike and Hanzee made it, although their fates are certainly something.  Mike's ending strangely reminds me of Vic Mackey's from The Shield, where he technically wins, but by winning, he actually looses, since he's now stuck behind a desk, and no longer in the thick of it, where he thrives.  And then Hanzee apparently gets a new face, identity, and is destined to take down the KC mafia, I guess.  Totally went over my head that those kids were Mr. Wrench and Mr. Numbers.  Awesome!

 

The opening scene of all the deaths was great.  And confirms that Simone is truly dead.  At least she can take solace that entire family followed her into death.

 

Charlie's fate was up in the air.  I wonder if it will remain a mystery, or it will be addressed in a future season.

 

Overall, I enjoyed the first season a lot, but I thought this blew it out of the water.  One of best seasons of television: not only this year, but maybe even one of my favorites of all time.  The entire cast was amazing, but special mention to Patrick Wilson, Bokeem Woodbine, and especially Kirsten Dunst.  May there be many awards and great future projects in all of their futures.

Edited December 15, 2015 by thuganomics85

[AuntiePam]

I was taken aback by Peggy's inability to get through to Lou, and Lou's dismissiveness.  The AV Club reviewer made me feel better about the way that scene was written.  He ties it in with what Hank was trying to do with a universal language.  Here's what the reviewer said:

 

 

He’s right, people are dead, but I don’t think that invalidate what she’s trying to say. As demented as Peggy could be, as disastrous as her actions were, they were coming from a place of legitimate, agonized frustration. If she could’ve found some way to say what she meant without resorting to gurus or self-help or murder, maybe she could’ve saved herself. If she had had the right language, maybe they all could’ve been saved.

 

So -- not sexism, but a failure to communicate. 

[knaankos]

-all the while sneering at Peggy's heartfelt outburst about being trapped in her life with a curt "PEOPLE ARE DEAD." It was some sexist garbage.

 

So Lou was supposed to feel an out-pouring of sympathy for Peggy in that moment after witnessing several people die thanks largely to her actions? Yeah ok. I don't think the theories of feminism were going through his mind at that moment

Trash episode. I have liked Milligan all season but his speech in this episode about being the king was way over the top. And this is coming from someone who thought the Jabberwocky recital worked. Milligan went from clever to out of touch and left you scratching your head. 

 (It also seemed that even though he was talking about a Vietnamese man trying to save his family, Lou when talking about the "rock" was talking about white male privilege, and it's no coincidence that he identified with Ed in this respect, another white male: I'm sure Hanzee and Mike, two previously marginalized POC treated like subhuman garbage unworthy of anything other than lackey status, would have been completely sympathetic towards Lou's discussion of the "burden" of being powerful because of the responsibility it entails.)

 

 

 

You do realize that Lou was talking about a man protecting his family right? And that Hanzee and Mike do not have family in the show and were not protecting anyone the entire season. And yes he was talking about a vietnamese man. So he was talking about 1 Vietnamese and and 1 white man, therefore he is talking about white privilege? Talk about the biggest stretch at grasping for straws I've ever seen on this forum.

Edited December 15, 2015 by knaankos

[shapeshifter]

When Ed told Peggy she was at fault for trying to fix things, I thought that his wanting to buy the shop was not much different, but he couldn't see it because that's what men did in the 70s.

Anyway, I don't think he could have lived with himself after he ground up a human being.

I wonder if Mike Milligan saves the company money with a Ponzi scheme that bankrupts thousands. I know his end was a kind of prison cell, but it also implied that an evil business man could have the past and the heart of a cold-blooded murderer.

Although...last week he had flashbacks of Simone, and this week he gazed at her baby picture and then turned it face down like he couldn't bear to see it, so maybe he did fall in love with her but just couldn't afford that luxury.

Thing is, Mr. Tripoli really looked different from what Hanzee looks like now, so Billy Bob [Malvo] would have been more believable.

I forget who Tripoli was in season one. Is it possible that Hanzee takes on the identiy of Tripoli (with the plastic surgery) but then kills the "real" Malvo (who we never see) and takes his identity? Why not? IIRC, Malvo was a master of disguise.

Was the Gerhardt flag with the black eagle supposed to suggest that they were Nazis?

It seemed to suggest that there was at least a similarity. White power and racisim, at least.

Do "Nazi" and "Hanzee" qualify as a palindrome? Ever since Peggy's tale of how Hanzee was like the Nazi in the Reagan movie, that idea has been stuck in my head.

[VCRTracking]

I think the fact that innocent people had died besides the gangsters was a good enough reason for Lou to be fed up with Peggy. He was sympathetic up to a point but he tried to help them episodes ago but both she and Ed were both too stubborn and foolish. I don't think Lou is a sexist jerk for sympathizing more with the one who's dead. If Ed had survived and Peggy died I'm sure he would have not given a damn over any excuses Ed might have given either.

Edited December 15, 2015 by VCRTracking