S13.E02: Pop-Up Pandemonium

[DidISayThat]

I am wondering if Grayson was brought back simply to create conflict, because if not I can't figure out what she's doing there. I am already so sick of her negativity and eye-rolling stank face. My baseline for judging the food is could I make a better dish. And for both her meatball and her salad, that's a big yes.

The delusion was strong tonight. They featured Phillip being so certain of his own awesomeness that I knew he would be on the bottom. And was Renee kidding with the bikini/chef's coat shot? Not sorry to see her go, although I wish it had been Grayson this time.

Am I so old that I am the only one who laughed that "Chad and Jeremy" were on the same team? Probably.

"Am I so old that I am the only one who laughed that "Chad and Jeremy" were on the same team? Probably."

 

No you are not!  I laughed too so we're both old!  

[Madding crowd]

I really hope Grayson is gone soon. Her snotty comments and above it all demeanor has already worn thin. So you only cook with meat. Good for you. Perhaps you shouldn't venture onto a TV cooking show that embraces different types of cuisine then. Geez. I'm a vegetarian and have been to many vegan restaurants with excellent food. Grains of all types, mushrooms, vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds can all be used as well as things like Tofu, beans or even breads. 

 

Mr. MaddingCrowd also said "is this Top Carrot". I like carrots a lot so I would have tried all the carrot dishes. The beet stuffed with brewer's yeast though sounded really bad. At least she tried though, throwing some green beans on top of a few greens is making zero effort. 

[zxy556575]

I am not a vegan and I do find vegan dishes difficult to make, but just this year I had to produce dishes for vegan guests at my Passover Seder. The eggplant ragout ended up being everyone's favorite dish. If I, a non-chef, could produce tasty vegan dishes for Passover - with all its attendant additional dietary restrictions - I have NO sympathy for the whining professional chefs burdened with the task. None. Bupkis.

 

It's starting to jell in my mind that 95% of the contestants on this show simply turn out dishes that are variations of what they already cook in their restaurants. Maybe with a couple small changes to suit the challenge parameters, but it's all basically something they already know/do. Whenever they're forced to be creative and design a dish from scratch, make a desert, use unfamiliar ingredients, or venture in any way outside their narrow wheelhouses, they fail.

Edited December 6, 2015 by lordonia

[MissEwa]

After the Wednesday night premiere, I came here all ready to be a Grayson apologist, because in the debacle that was Top Chef Texas, she came off as a lovely person, even being so bold as to stand up for psychological underdog Beverly against the Mean Girls. And her dry sense of humor was quirky and a little self deprecating, but never angry or demeaning to others. I even remember Satan Sarah Grueneberg pathetically feigning Grayson's light and effortless attitude in a couple of really cringe-worthy moments.

 

Did she strike me as a great, creative chef then? No. Her food though, always seemed very sincere. Midwesternly straight-forward and good, without all the ras el hanout and truffle foams and chefy touches that I usually have Google after they use them just to make sure I am grasping the concept through context.  

 

But all I could do after last night's pop-up episode was ask: what has happened to that Grayson? She has embraced a negative side that I simply didn't feel at all during that miserable season. Or maybe the rest of them were SO whiny and nasty that she just didn't seem that way. She has gone from being a person I thought it would be fun to having a drink with to a person who would be the downer who wallows in self pity after two beers and ends up on the floor of the ladies room, crying into the toilet she is clutching.

 

One of the Hostage Scenarios must be in play here.  

This is me. I was quite excited to see her and then... no. The line about the salad being better with pork fat made me laugh (because what isn't?) but other than that it was awful. I feel like there was a bit of 'I don't care if I'm on Top Chef I'm cooking the food I like' when she was on TC Texas - that time she served the giant slab of meat and potatoes, IIRC - but they seem to have amplified that here at the expense of everything else. 

 

I was on the fence about ManBun after the first episode but he can go any time. 

Very excited to see Antonia in the preview. I just hope she doesn't catch whatever Greyson has. 

[jumper sage]

The messy chef who blended the tomatoes with the stickers still on them - so he didn't even wash them then?  I didn't see him serve the tomatoes did anyone else.  He is also the chef that Padma said something to at the food festival.  I want to know where he works so I never eat there.

 

Hilarious that the chef that runs a Mexican restaurant failed at the pop up.

[RCharter]

They filmed in Olvera Park, and Koreatown.  I've spent a lot of time in both places, they are not even a mile apart.  But two totally separate and delicious cuisines.  LA has terrible traffic, and super douches like bun boy (who knows everyone, and has his life sized picture on his hipster restaurant, and a girlfriend who is a model/actress)  but the fact that we do have such a diversity of cultures that bring us yummy food is just wonderful.  I've also been to that area of Westwood and there is a little market out there there the old Persian lady will dispense advice.  Last time I was there, she made sure I put my expensive saffron in my pocket so I didn't lose it.  Very sweet.

I am wondering if Grayson was brought back simply to create conflict, because if not I can't figure out what she's doing there. I am already so sick of her negativity and eye-rolling stank face. My baseline for judging the food is could I make a better dish. And for both her meatball and her salad, that's a big yes.

The delusion was strong tonight. They featured Phillip being so certain of his own awesomeness that I knew he would be on the bottom. And was Renee kidding with the bikini/chef's coat shot? Not sorry to see her go, although I wish it had been Grayson this time.

Am I so old that I am the only one who laughed that "Chad and Jeremy" were on the same team? Probably.

 

That has to be the reason for Grayson.  Maybe she struck some sort of deal with the producers to get back on TV as long as she played the villian in the early part of the season as a way to stay on.  Because Padma can be a straight up bitch, and Grayson has thrown her little stank attitude at judges table twice now and Padma hasn't said much of anything.  Neither have Tom or Gail.

 

If she wanted to cook her own food her own way maybe she should have just stayed home.

 

Grayson gave up before the challenge started. Ugh...just send her home already.

I think Kwame might be the sleeper here. The other three guys say they can cook Mexican and he's the only one who pulls out a good dish.

On a shallow note, I really want Padma's jacket.

 

Padma looked absolutely amazing this episode.  If she has a stylist, that woman needs a raise.  Padma is always beautiful, but dang!

 

This. I was rooting for sassy Renee to stay over Grayson. Renee seemed to have a solid showing last night. I did not mind Grayson on Top Chef Texas. I did not love her, but I did not hate her either. Now, I want her gone. I do not get why they brought her back. She seems so bitter about everything. She has done this show before, so she know she isn't always going to be making something in her wheelhouse. I am just at a loss why she is so bitter all the time. I do not know if I can take more of her complaining. Don't they have Top Chef All Stars or something that Grayson should be on instead of a new season of regular TC?

 

Marjorie winning was nice. Team Persian did work well together. I am glad they were in the top.

 

I did kind of laugh at the team of chefs snarking on Phillip's giant picture of himself on his restaurant as they passed by in the car.

 

I don't even remember Greyson from Top Chef Texas....

Bun Boy appears to be getting the self-important douchebag edit.

It's too bad he wasn't on the Korean team given Bun Boy's Kim Jong-un sized ego.

 

 

 

But OMG they came from a can!  A CAN!  Oh the humanity!

I sincerely thought he might throw a can of chickpeas at her face.  We get it Tom C.  Fresh chickpeas or death.....

Edited December 5, 2015 by RCharter

[Kromm]

How about not use chickpeas?  The vegan place looked to have all kinds of fresh stuff, so does Whole Foods.

Exactly. Tom can be a real shit sometimes (and that's part of Grayson's little semi-amusing/semi-pathetic war against him), but I did understand his point here to probably ultimately be "then why use it" more than him insisting she find something that wasn't even there.

I don't even remember Greyson from Top Chef Texas....

it's odd what people remember and don't because she was very memorable there actually. And was in virtually the entire season (she lasted until Episode 13), with tons of talking heads (because she was often bagging on the judging or being otherwise sarcastic about something--something as I've said elsewhere that worked a LOT better that season than it has for her this time out, where it's coming off a lot more pathetic).

I am not a vegan and I do find vegan dishes difficult to make, but just this year I had to produce dishes for vegan guests at my Passover Seder. The eggplant ragout ended up being everyone's favorite dish. If I, a non-chef, could produce tasty vegan dishes for Passover - with all its attendant additional dietary restrictions - I have NO sympathy for the whining professional chefs burdened with the task. None. Bupkis.

They shouldn't be whining about it sure, but I do think it's an unfair comparison here because your dish wasn't there alongside really naughty but flavorful indulgent Mexican or Persian dishes at the time. Passover food can be okay, but I'm thinking a clever eggplant dish stood out a lot because it wasn't the usual passover fare. It had that as part of the wow factor. Whereas here, the bar was probably a lot higher and a lot less likely to be the most unique dish the judges ate that day no matter what. It WAS the shit assignment of the task. The fact that great vegan dishes are theoretically possible didn't really matter as much as the fact that they were in essence fighting against fairly exciting food. Edited December 5, 2015 by Kromm

[Tunia]

Portabello mushrooms are your friend.

[candall]

" Frances is the next to make a stupid mistake, by dropping the knowledge that she used canned chickpeas. In her defense, she mentions they were labeled "organic." All of the judges look like Frances just told them she used Soylent Green instead of chickpeas. "

Must give Jeff Drake full credit for the speedy double premiere recaps--hilarious.  He caught me by surprise with some remark while I was taking a drink and I choked Fuji Apple Lifewater into my lungs.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Padma looked absolutely amazing this episode.  If she has a stylist, that woman needs a raise.  Padma is always beautiful, but dang!

Plus one on giving the stylist a raise immediately.   Padma is incredibly beautiful, but has worn mind-bogglingly hideous unflattering clothes on this show season after season.  Last night she looked great and I too, covet that jacket.

 

Everyone I've ever met in my life whose family was from Iran, or who was born there themselves, has described themselves to me as Persian.  Several of my Persian friends have a particular pet peeve about the Persian language being called Farsi - we don't call Spanish "Espanol" , or French "Francais", or German "Deutsch", etc.  On another Persian note - I was yelling at the TV at Isaac (the one who "knew nothing" about Persian food) - dude! you must have had INDIAN food and all Northern Indian food has a heavy Persian influence because of the Mughals - biriyani, korma, all those nuts and fruits and sweet sauces used with meats and savory dishes.  Agree that team got lucky by getting to shop at a real Persian grocery - it's so nice to have  those rare occasions when the show allows the chefs to shop at an actual local business and not just make do at Whole Foods. I understand the whole sponsorship thing but I still wish they did more local shopping.

 

Ah, the vegan pop-up.   I don't know.  I was a vegetarian for 20 plus years and even I always have to stop and think about vegan dishes when I have to make them for parties and such.  For vegetarian meals you can go very fruitfully to India, South India especially which has a vegetarian tradition going back thousands of years, or European peasant dishes (Italian being very easy) or Mexican.  East Asians don't use dairy but in general their vegetable/grain dishes involve meat or fish broths and condiments.  So most cuisines are going to have to be tweaked in order to fit the vegan criteria.  Frances made the only dish that looked good to me, or even like a plausible main dish for that matter - I think that's why they made the big deal out of the CANNED!!!???? garbanzo thing, as a kind of fake out to make the disparity less obvious.

Edited December 5, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[Richness]

I better turn in my gay card, because I was cringing every time I saw Padma. Her bright red lipstick fought for attention continuously with the red in the jacket. Something just seemed off. Then again, I'm wanted by the fashion police, so I know nothing.

 

As far as the main purpose of this show, the cooking, I'm a carnivore and have to side with Grayson about vegan food. However, I am so tired of her and her attitude. I don't remember her from the abysmal Texas season, but I really hate when they mix veterans with newbies. Not that I think Grayson has much of an advantage over the newbies that most veterans seem to have.

 

Glad the lady won for doing a dessert. That it's going to be added to the restaurant's menu is even better. I wonder if that was something they planned on doing for any winner at any of the pop-ups, or if that's just something they decided to do because it was *that* good?

 

Also got a good laugh at seeing Man Bun's wall vanity. He's way to hipster douche for my tastes though.

[In Pog Form]

Is vegan really a "cuisine" in the same way as the others are, though? It's more of a dietary restriction.

 

It's like saying that Team A gets to do French, Team B gets to do Chinese, but Team C has to do gluten-free hypoallergenic food with no peanuts or shrimp.

[KittyS]

I have to agree with Padma on vegan food being less limiting than the other categories. I mean, they could have done vegan Persian, vegan Korean, or vegan Mexican flavors. Instead they went with vegan Meh.

[In Pog Form]

Padma was right, they had the whole world open to them - any ethnicity, any flavor profile. 

 

I don't think that makes it easier. Without a theme or flavor profile to tie their dishes together, it was almost doomed to fail. Especially with a bunch of unfamiliar people suddenly working in a team.

 

Those with the regional cuisines could anchor their work to those expected flavor profiles and dish concepts. Veganism doesn't really have that going for it. That's why it's easy to mage vegetarian/vegan versions of regional dishes and still have them work with other dishes in a course.

[In Pog Form]

They have dried chick peas in every supermarket. I have never seen them fresh, only dried.  

What would make dried chick peas superior to canned ones?

 

I use both, and the reason to use dried is that they are cheaper by weight. The end result is the same, but the canned gets you there quicker if you're willing to spend a bit more. And the dried ones really do need a long soaking/cooking time to come out as good. They are easily screwed up.

 

ETA:

 

For those who aren't aware, canned chick peas are dried chick peas. They are just rehydrated before canning, so basically the soaking and cooking process is done for you.

 

You can pressure-cook chick peas, but even then it is recommended to pre-soak them, and it still takes a good while to cook. These things really prefer to soak slowly.

 

Also, fresh chick peas are quite a different thing, used for different purposes. They aren't a direct substitution. It's like fresh coffee  beans, compared to the dried and roasted ones we actually use and love.

Edited December 5, 2015 by In Pog Form

[Wings]

What would make dried chick peas superior to canned ones?

 

I use both, and the reason to use dried is that they are cheaper by weight. The end result is the same, but the canned gets you there quicker if you're willing to spend a bit more. And the dried ones really do need a long soaking/cooking time to come out as good. They are easily screwed up.

 

I have used both and I can tell the difference but it is very slight.  I mostly use canned now for all beans.  I have become lazy.  In the height of my cooking I made everything scratch including pasta.  

Edited December 5, 2015 by wings707

[Sarnia]

Tom actually said "that's the dish you do when you don't have fresh vegetables, you use dried chickpeas" so he didn't pick up on tasting that they were actually canned. Vegan means vegan, not necessarily "fresh seasonal vegetables with foraged herbs".

I hope Grayson is paid a lot of money to play this year's contestant you love to hate, otherwise I can't think what her excuse is.

[Pepper Mostly]

I thought every Whole Foods has its bulk foods aisle that includes dried chickpeas.  At least, the stores in my area always have them. I have never tried to cook them.

The trouble with dried chickpeas is that they have to be soaked overnight. the quick soak method is very hit or miss--they might get soft enough to use but they might not. They are a temperamental legume! Even using the quick soak, would she have had time? 

[NYCFree]

I too am a fashion loser. I wasn't wowed by Padma's jacket, but rather thought it was reminiscent of Michael Jackson early 80s. This is why I never understand the winner in Project Runway.

[Wings]

Portabello mushrooms are your friend.

 

 

Yes!  I have had to make a vegan dish on occasion and my go to is a stuffed portabello!   My other go to is  Thai green curry over rice.  Coconut milk goes a long way in making an entree satisfying.   

 

Indian food relies heavily on butter and cream; without this dairy the dishes can lack depth of flavor.  

[Noreaster]

You can buy fresh chickpeas. I thought Tom meant her dish was fine but why not make a curry that highlighted fresh produce when it was abundant. It was a nitpick to a solid dish to make it seem that there were more people up for elimination.

Yeah, I thought it was just a nitpick too. The judges have to try to find something negative (and positive) to say about every dish and then editing does its magic to emphasize it or not. It was pretty clear from the contestants' discussion in the stew room that the chickpea dish was not in danger of elimination.

How much time did the contestants have for this challenge? Was it just a day, a few hours? Because I can see how some contestants were frustrated. Sure everyone can come up with a vegan dish but when something is out of one's comfort zone and there are major time constraints, I can see how some were feeling frustrated. Grayson seemed like she just went with an idea quickly, grabbed anything in the market, and then was stuck and uninspired. She knew she wasn't putting up a good dish.

[Kromm]

Yes!  I have had to make a vegan dish on occasion and my go to is a stuffed portabello!   My other go to is  Thai green curry over rice.  Coconut milk goes a long way in making an entree satisfying.   

 

Indian food relies heavily on butter and cream; without this dairy the dishes can lack depth of flavor.  

Well that's why vegetarian is really no big deal (and why vegan is so fucking annoying). Add in the lack of cheese too. 

 

Coconut milk is a nice tool, but really there are only a few KINDS of dishes you can use it in. It'd be nice if you could pop it into any old random Italian or French dish, but you can't really. 

 

I will say this. I'm no snob about good vegetarian--and I don't even poo-poo tofu or some of the other alternatives. There's a vegetarian chinese place I go to that uses Seitan in place of chicken and beef and makes dishes where other than an understandable texture difference you honestly can only BARELY tell the difference. Okay, that's an exaggeration. I can always tell the difference. But nevertheless the result is, can be, damn good. But they're vegetarian dishes, not vegan. Oh.. here's another key. They FRY stuff a lot of the stuff. So the health benefits are debatable even though there's no meat!  Guess what?  If you fry wheat gluten (aka Seitan) or even Tofu?  It CAN taste good. Because frying tastes THAT good.

[Wings]

I am with you on the fried anything, Krom.  Tempura vegetables are another easy and fast solution for vegan.   I get a request for tempura cauliflower from a vegan friend when ever she comes to dinner.  

[LilyoftheValley]

I do not think that Grayson understands this show.  The idea is not really to make good meatballs and sauce or a good salad, but rather to make something unique and new that the judges have not tasted before.  To me, good meatballs and tomato sauce is just a really good comfort food meal; it's not something a top chef would produce as part of a competition.  Someone said on the other thread that Grayson clearly no longer wants to grow as a chef and that is exactly how I see it too.  

 

And Manbun is not nearly as hot, cool or talented as he thinks he is.  If your wife is a model and an actress, then how come I have never heard of her?  Oh right....  BTW brah, you are clearly not going to make to even the final 6.  I can already tell.  

[cooksdelight]

How much time did the contestants have for this challenge? Was it just a day, a few hours?

That day. I think they had a bit of time to plan with the owner of each restaurant (ask questions, which some chose not to do), the usual half hour to shop, and a couple of hours to cook.

[LilyoftheValley]

Well that's why vegetarian is really no big deal (and why vegan is so fucking annoying). Add in the lack of cheese too. 

 

Coconut milk is a nice tool, but really there are only a few KINDS of dishes you can use it in. It'd be nice if you could pop it into any old random Italian or French dish, but you can't really. 

 

I will say this. I'm no snob about good vegetarian--and I don't even poo-poo tofu or some of the other alternatives. There's a vegetarian chinese place I go to that uses Seitan in place of chicken and beef and makes dishes where other than an understandable texture difference you honestly can only BARELY tell the difference. Okay, that's an exaggeration. I can always tell the difference. But nevertheless the result is, can be, damn good. But they're vegetarian dishes, not vegan. Oh.. here's another key. They FRY stuff a lot of the stuff. So the health benefits are debatable even though there's no meat!  Guess what?  If you fry wheat gluten (aka Seitan) or even Tofu?  It CAN taste good. Because frying tastes THAT good.

There was not a whole lot of imagination on the vegan team.  Everyone except Kimmy (?) made a side dish.  They could have made a really interesting four course meal like team Persia.  

 

Also, not to beat a dead horse but to the person who was upset that they called it Persian instead of Iranian: I lived near that area of LA for years, and believe you me, no one says Iranian and everyone says Persian.  

[RemoteControlFreak]

I don't think that makes it easier. Without a theme or flavor profile to tie their dishes together, it was almost doomed to fail. Especially with a bunch of unfamiliar people suddenly working in a team.

There was no requirement that their dishes somehow complement each other.

 

The problem is the mindset of most chefs when creating a dish.  It's all centered around an animal protein. They decide to get a leg of lamb or fresh salmon and some kind of beef and then they figure out what to build around the animal protein.  Without that, they were lost and all they could come up with were a side salad, a cauliflower appetizer, canned beans, and the stereotypical alternative to meat: tofu.

Edited December 5, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[AriAu]

I do not think that Grayson understands this show.  The idea is not really to make good meatballs and sauce or a good salad, but rather to make something unique and new that the judges have not tasted before.

 

Been thinking about this. The goal is to win and maybe Grayson understands better than most, that this is marathon, not a sprint, and it doesn't hurt to keep a few good ideas around for later. If you use up all of your strongest dishes early, you have nothing left to show the judges when they can really focus on each dish. Now, she may be cutting it a little bit close right now, but ..... she is still alive. She might have come with a better veggie/vegan idea since that should not have been a shock, but....she is somehow still alive.

 

I think Melissa played it this way in TC Boston and "came on strong" which may have come from using her strongest dishes later.

 

All of these chefs have watched the show for all 13 seasons and they know to come with their strongest ideas ready to go, along with a dessert in their back pocket-yes, I am taking to you Richard Blais and your banana scallops in TC Chicago. I remember Michael Voltaggio creating stuff out of thin air, but the rest seemed to stick to what they had made or knew very well.

 

And for the record, I kinda liked Renee's cheesy pinup photos. She showed some personality (along with some skin) and was proud of having lost 40 pounds, so good for her. Considering they are around food all day, and tasting is part of the job (and drink is a result of the job) I am amazed that all  chefs are not bigger (or in Grayson's words fatter).

Edited December 5, 2015 by AriAu

[In Pog Form]

There was no requirement that their dishes somehow complement each other.

 

Then why even have them work together in the same "restaurant"? The thing about these pop-ups is that they are usually very theme/gimmick based.

 

And you know that if they went from a Chinese dish to an Italian to a Mexican, the judges would totally have dinged them for lacking coherence - and Padma would be saying the exact opposite of "use any flavor profile!"

[RemoteControlFreak]

Then why even have them work together in the same "restaurant"? The thing about these pop-ups is that they are usually very theme/gimmick based.

 

And you know that if they went from a Chinese dish to an Italian to a Mexican, the judges would totally have dinged them for lacking coherence - and Padma would be saying the exact opposite of "use any flavor profile!"

They had to fit the cuisine of the restaurant, but they didn't have to necessarily complement each other within that theme. Each dish is judged individually within the constraints of the cuisine. So there's not a "consistent flavor profile" for the Mexican, Persian, or Korean restaurants.  

 

So the excuse that without a theme or flavor profile to tie the vegan team together, they were doomed to fail doesn't make any sense.

Edited December 5, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[Wings]

The main thought going through my mind for the tasting portion of the show:   How on earth were they able to get from Olvera Street to Koreatown to Westwood to Venice in any length of time that was fair and/or predictable? It was getting late in the day, and rush-hour traffic is not just bad, it's so far beyond bad you can't see bad anymore.  I seriously wondered if they had a helicopter shuttling them around. 

 

Creative editing. I have a hunch that most of the grocery runs are made the day before at times when traffic is low, no matter what city.  

[Calamity Jane]

Creative editing. I have a hunch that most of the grocery runs are made the day before at times when traffic is low, no matter what city.  

I meant the judges. 

[Wings]

I meant the judges. 

 

Ahhh.  Same thing.  I doubt they were all done in the same day.   The answer to this may lie in Padma's hair. 

[NowVoyager]

I loved the editors' contrast between Angelina (there's no fish? I'll do chicken!) and Grayson (no yellow beans?? This sucks!! There is absolutely nothing else in this Whole Foods store I can use for a vegan dish")

Help me out here, folks---is the flavor profile of yellow wax beans really that different from green beans?!

Add me to the list for surprised by the lack of mushrooms. Soaking dried mushrooms in a little hot water produces the most delicious broth...that was my first thought for getting that savory umami taste in a dish with no animal products.

[In Pog Form]

So the excuse that without a theme or flavor profile to tie the vegan team together, they were doomed to fail doesn't make any sense.

Except I never said anything about "doomed to fail." I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

 

The judges will make up anything as they go along. Chick peas perfectly "fit the cuisine" of vegan, yet Tom still thinks they're verboten. I think he has some odd ideas about what vegans eat.

Edited December 5, 2015 by In Pog Form

[Wings]

I meant the judges. 

 

 

I just watched again because I am a wanna be detective and I am also avoiding cleaning my house. 

 

The sun was shining brightly with a clear sky in one and very heavy overcast in another. .  I know weather can vary in different areas of the city but Gail's pony tail was different in two different shots.   My guess is it took them 2 days.  Okay, now I have to clean.  But will I?  Jury is out on that.  

[summer57]

About the chickpeas - we can get frozen chickpeas here at Costco & the local Indo-Canadian grocery stores, but I don't think they'd work as well as dried or canned in chana masala.  I make chana masala a few times a month, usually with dried chickpeas (chana). The only difference between dried and canned chickpeas is the price & cooking time.

 

Saying that, I can think of lots of veg that would work well in a masala, which is basically onions, spices and a bit of tomato. Getting the masala right is the tricky part, so good for Frances.

[windfall]

I just watched again because I am a wanna be detective and I am also avoiding cleaning my house. 

 

The sun was shining brightly with a clear sky in one and very heavy overcast in another. .  I know weather can vary in different areas of the city but Gail's pony tail was different in two different shots.   My guess is it took them 2 days.  Okay, now I have to clean.  But will I?  Jury is out on that.  

If you really want to find out, go hunt down the tweets Gail sent out inviting people to join them at the pop ups. Assuming they weren't misleading us with editing the tweets should've been sent out the day of the pop ups.

[Calamity Jane]

I think having it spread out over two days makes much more sense.  My latest nightmare with LA traffic resulted in a trip that we usually complete in well under two hours, even with historically normal traffic,  taking four, resulting in a missed flight.  No accidents, just crazy, crazy traffic.  It's become almost untenable.

[Wings]

If you really want to find out, go hunt down the tweets Gail sent out inviting people to join them at the pop ups. Assuming they weren't misleading us with editing the tweets should've been sent out the day of the pop ups.

 

I suck at searching twitter.  I am missing some information on how to do that or I would.  That would confirm or negate my theory for sure.   Another theory is that the times were nuts.  One way before dawn, the next just after dawn and through the day ending at night that same day.  

Edited December 5, 2015 by wings707

[attica]

I have had honey-yogurt mousse recently (although not specifically Persian), and I would have it again right now if I could. It's delightful.

 

Her bright red lipstick fought for attention continuously with the red in the jacket.

 

Heavens, I disagree. I loved the way the colors popped. And I'm dying to know what lipstick she was wearing; that mofo didn't fade or feather at all during 16 courses of eating. (I am not ruling out that she had help in that regard, but I sort of doubt that professional Lip Applicator people could hover over their tables at all the restaurants.)

[ratgirlagogo]

 

 

Yes!  I have had to make a vegan dish on occasion and my go to is a stuffed portabello!   My other go to is  Thai green curry over rice.  Coconut milk goes a long way in making an entree satisfying.  

Indian food relies heavily on butter and cream; without this dairy the dishes can lack depth of flavor.

Portobello mushroom would have been good.  I do wonder why none of them did a mushroom dish.  As for the Thai curry, I agree that would make an excellent main dish, but one that would be trickier if you had to get your ingredients from Whole Foods.  Lemongrass, chiles, shallots yes, but I'd be shocked if they had kaffir limes or galangal.  Also now you have to come up with a good vegan substitute for the shrimp paste and the fish sauce - I'd imagine you could use some type of miso (barley maybe) but unless you'd actually done it before that could all go very wrong.  It's tricky.

 

Also the butter and cream in Indian cooking add not just depth of flavor, but depth of nutrition to many of the dishes in which they feature.  As I said, the chana masala was an actual main dish, nutritionally speaking - very good call.  A lot of South Indian staples that would have been perfect (like idlis and dosas)  would have taken too long to prepare since the dough needs to ferment overnight.

 

Oh, forgot to say that although Renee's beet didn't look that great, it looked better to me than DoucheBun's three-way cauliflower, which seemed like a canape.

[Wings]

 

 As for the Thai curry, I agree that would make an excellent main dish, but one that would be trickier if you had to get your ingredients from Whole Foods.  Lemongrass, chiles, shallots yes, but I'd be shocked if they had kaffir limes or galangal.

 

Whole Foods has everything you listed but I am not sure about galangal, Ginger is a good substitution and would have worked well.   It sure beats a green bean salad and a beet stuffed with brewers yeast and something else that didn't work.   I don't use shrimp paste in mine and it would be fine without the fish sauce.  Vegan food has limitations no matter where you turn.  

[RCharter]

Plus one on giving the stylist a raise immediately.   Padma is incredibly beautiful, but has worn mind-bogglingly hideous unflattering clothes on this show season after season.  Last night she looked great and I too, covet that jacket.

 

Everyone I've ever met in my life whose family was from Iran, or who was born there themselves, has described themselves to me as Persian.  Several of my Persian friends have a particular pet peeve about the Persian language being called Farsi - we don't call Spanish "Espanol" , or French "Francais", or German "Deutsch", etc.  On another Persian note - I was yelling at the TV at Isaac (the one who "knew nothing" about Persian food) - dude! you must have had INDIAN food and all Northern Indian food has a heavy Persian influence because of the Mughals - biriyani, korma, all those nuts and fruits and sweet sauces used with meats and savory dishes.  Agree that team got lucky by getting to shop at a real Persian grocery - it's so nice to have  those rare occasions when the show allows the chefs to shop at an actual local business and not just make do at Whole Foods. I understand the whole sponsorship thing but I still wish they did more local shopping.

 

Ah, the vegan pop-up.   I don't know.  I was a vegetarian for 20 plus years and even I always have to stop and think about vegan dishes when I have to make them for parties and such.  For vegetarian meals you can go very fruitfully to India, South India especially which has a vegetarian tradition going back thousands of years, or European peasant dishes (Italian being very easy) or Mexican.  East Asians don't use dairy but in general their vegetable/grain dishes involve meat or fish broths and condiments.  So most cuisines are going to have to be tweaked in order to fit the vegan criteria.  Frances made the only dish that looked good to me, or even like a plausible main dish for that matter - I think that's why they made the big deal out of the CANNED!!!???? garbanzo thing, as a kind of fake out to make the disparity less obvious.

I love meat based dishes, but I used to go to this Indian place that made something called palak paneer I think?  I used to get that by the bucket and as far as I know it didn't have meat (but maybe it had some milk).  I don't know why no one did something with a mushroom, who doesn't like eating mushrooms?

 

Well that's why vegetarian is really no big deal (and why vegan is so fucking annoying). Add in the lack of cheese too. 

 

Coconut milk is a nice tool, but really there are only a few KINDS of dishes you can use it in. It'd be nice if you could pop it into any old random Italian or French dish, but you can't really. 

 

I will say this. I'm no snob about good vegetarian--and I don't even poo-poo tofu or some of the other alternatives. There's a vegetarian chinese place I go to that uses Seitan in place of chicken and beef and makes dishes where other than an understandable texture difference you honestly can only BARELY tell the difference. Okay, that's an exaggeration. I can always tell the difference. But nevertheless the result is, can be, damn good. But they're vegetarian dishes, not vegan. Oh.. here's another key. They FRY stuff a lot of the stuff. So the health benefits are debatable even though there's no meat!  Guess what?  If you fry wheat gluten (aka Seitan) or even Tofu?  It CAN taste good. Because frying tastes THAT good.

 Agree that fried tofu can also be delicious.  I used to go to an really authentic asian place in Monterey Park that had a seafood and bean curd (tofu) hot pot and I could have eaten that fried tofu all day long like a fiend.

 

I do not think that Grayson understands this show.  The idea is not really to make good meatballs and sauce or a good salad, but rather to make something unique and new that the judges have not tasted before.  To me, good meatballs and tomato sauce is just a really good comfort food meal; it's not something a top chef would produce as part of a competition.  Someone said on the other thread that Grayson clearly no longer wants to grow as a chef and that is exactly how I see it too.  

 

And Manbun is not nearly as hot, cool or talented as he thinks he is.  If your wife is a model and an actress, then how come I have never heard of her?  Oh right....  BTW brah, you are clearly not going to make to even the final 6.  I can already tell.  

 

Here is the thing..I think the show CAN be about making a great meatball.  But it had better be the best fucking meatball anyone has ever had.  If you're not wanting to be inventive or interesting I think your food has to be the bomb dot com (yes 2001, I hear you calling and I know you want your saying back)

 

 

And for the record, I kinda liked Renee's cheesy pinup photos. She showed some personality (along with some skin) and was proud of having lost 40 pounds, so good for her. Considering they are around food all day, and tasting is part of the job (and drink is a result of the job) I am amazed that all  chefs are not bigger (or in Grayson's words fatter).

I liked her photos, I just don't know if I would have submitted it to the show.  I get that being a chef celebrity and growing your business is about image and looks and Giada but Top Chef has always seemed like such a serious competition to me it would stink for a chef to be taken lightly because of some pictures she did.  And while I don't like sassy chef....I think she is so pretty.  But I can tell with time, she would have gotten under my skin so I'm not sad she is gone.

 

I think having it spread out over two days makes much more sense.  My latest nightmare with LA traffic resulted in a trip that we usually complete in well under two hours, even with historically normal traffic,  taking four, resulting in a missed flight.  No accidents, just crazy, crazy traffic.  It's become almost untenable.

That part of LA (Westwood) is the absolfuckinglutely WORST in terms of traffic!  You can really only get there on the 405, and the 405 is the absofuckinglutely worst freeway!  The WORST!  except for certain parts of the 10, but overall, the 405 freeway is the worst!  I bet thats why they had them shop at local places, because I know there is a whole foods out that way...or maybe I'm thinking of Gelsons.....but trying to figure out traffic and filming in there I think would have been a nightmare.  Just getting out of that area around the 405 would be an absolute disaster.

 

I used to travel from around that area to my school in Downtown LA, close to Koreatown.  It was a 8 mile ride that took me over two hours...every time.

 

I noticed that even though they are in LA, they go to the Whole Foods in Pasadena, and that has to be by design.  Although that Whole Foods is just off the 110, so it might be the closest one near them that has a big selection.  That Whole Foods is pretty massive.

[In Pog Form]

I love meat based dishes, but I used to go to this Indian place that made something called palak paneer I think?  I used to get that by the bucket and as far as I know it didn't have meat (but maybe it had some milk). 

"Paneer" is cheese. A palak paneer is a cheese and spinach curry. Definitely not vegan. As others have noted, Indian food often makes very heavy use of dairy.

 

Vegan cooking is at least 10x harder than vegetarian, because there are so many more limitations. And they are limitations that take away a lot of the things you can do to complement vegetables.

[Kromm]

Right. If the assignment for that sub-group had been Vegetarian, while it still would have been a bit of a crock being spun as a real equivalent to juicy ethnic choices like Persian or Mexican, it wouldn't have been so far off as to be ridiculous.

 

I know this won't be a popular opinion here, and yes the team STILL tanked the challenge in ways they didn't have to, but Vegan as I said even in my first post about this episode was a real (and because the team was clearly handpicked for that assignment behind the scenes beforehand) "fuck you" to them. Was a triumphant dish at least POSSIBLE with those conditions?  Sure. Undeniably. But if it was 10 times harder than vegetarian, that was already on top of vegetarian being a few times harder than Mexican, Persian, etc. Especially if they were going to nitpick about stuff like canned beans. 

 

Normally this show shouldn't be graded on a curve. But if there was ever an episode where we got a good argument for that it might have been this one. If Vegan was simply being judged against itself, then maybe the judging would have been fair.  But it was never going to live up to those other delicious options.  About the one thing they probably could have done, again as I mentioned before, was ditch the bullshit idea that because its vegan it had to be healthy. Pull out that deep frier and get it sizzling. Because really that's the only way to get vegan ingredients over the top (and you still have to figure out a good binder to put a breading, batter or other coating on the outside without using animal byproducts--cornstarch and soymilk made into a paste is apparently the best you can do and really that's not very good).

Edited December 6, 2015 by Kromm

[ratgirlagogo]

I agree about vegan being harder.  I guess that's why I wrote more about it. As I said since I cooked as a vegetarian for twenty years I could do that easily - and yet vegan would be challenging for me.  For most chefs they probably don't have more than one or two reliable dishes in their repertoire - apparently not even that many for someone like Grayson.   Mr. "I Know Everyone in the LA Food World" turned out to have exactly one vegan dish in his kitbag. Padma's saying they could do anything and just omit animal products was  disingenuous.  Food doesn't work like that.  So yes, these folks had the hardest assignment.  i don't think frying would have helped either - they just don't cook enough vegan dishes to be able to improvise them.

 

Which makes it all the funnier that the people who got what I considered the real softball - Mexican - would have lost if not for Kwame.  That was probably the bigger fail.

[anonymiss]

It's really not that hard. If we're talking Indian there's satisfying and substantial vegan dishes (not the vegetarian ones that rely on paneer) like aloo gobi, baingan bharta (sans the raita), daal tadka, bindi kadai, etc. As long as you go to one that uses oil instead of ghee or you request that.

 

LA is such a mecca for vegan (and gf) so it was extra frustrating to watch this go to waste. Seems like all of the chefs would've benefitted from being guests at a leading restaurant of the cuisine of their challenge like what TC has done in past years.

Edited December 6, 2015 by anonymiss

[tenativelyyours]

I'm a meat eater but I have had some great vegan meals.  Lots of different cuisines can be done with what was available.  I have had some great eggplant tacos in the same meal as a white bean variation of risotto.  Okay they didn't really go together but the point is there are several dishes that simply mean thinking "how do I do this vegan"   It might not be the easiest but in that locale they had lots of options that someone who wants to brag about awards, nominatiions and kitchen positions should be able to at least conceive.  Execution is another thing. But my problem was how they thought about what they were going to do even before they tried to do it.

[LilyoftheValley]

I think Renee is annoying for one reason only: she announced to everyone that she was sassy when she introduced herself.  It's fine to be sassy, but it's another thing to tell be that when you are introducing yourself.  It's pretentious and if you're truly sassy, then you should not have to tell everyone; they'll figure it out in due course.

 

Also "sassy" is to me one of those traits that exists more in theory than in real life.  It's like the personality equivalent of food being described as "zesty" by the advertising sluts.  No one in reality talks about food that way, and similarly in reality people are rarely thought of as being sassy.  So announcing it to everyone just comes across as insincere and obnoxious.  Obviously Renee gets a lot of negative reactions to this, which is why she decided it's because everyone is jealous of her happy life.  And actually since she feels the need to announce how great she and her life is to complete strangers, I am thinking this is case of me thinks the lady doth protest too much.