S13.E02: Pop-Up Pandemonium

[Kromm]

I don't think it has anything to do with current politics. I lived in LA years ago, and all the restaurants identified themselves as "Persian."  I also hear people talk about "Persian art" and "Persian music."  It's the historical, traditional name for the country and the culture, and more meaningful than saying "Iranian,"  a name which is a relatively recent geopolitical creation.

Yes, the aberration is Iran, not Persia.

[Kromm]

It feels to me that Grayson was told she's being brought back to be the villain, because a lot of her "bitchy" comments seem half-hearted. Like she's acting a part.

I hadn't thought of that, but I suppose it's possible. Then again it didn't work out for Jen Carroll-not that I think Jen was acting--I just mean the idea of coming back a second time and acting like an idiot.

 

The only way this really works out is if someone's promised a redemption arc. I mean these aren't just random people. These are people who's work-life outside the show depends on a public reputation.  Someone would have to be pretty short-sighted to torpedo their future employability for whatever short term reward the show promised to come back and act like a twit. And the producers of this show might, as much as any other reality show,occasionally deliberately cast flakes and drama queens to make good TV but I don't think they're deluded enough to think it's a good idea to persuade people to act that way deliberately (because of the career implications).

 

Occam's razor pretty much implies then that it's just someone who's being stupid or crazy all on their own.

[Totale]

I'm supposing he probably didn't much care what happened to the other members of his team and just took care of himself on that challenge--figuring if his team lost he'd ride his superior knowledge of crunchy granola and Vegan food to not being the one who the judges went after.

 

I think the guy's a spectacular twit, but have to admit that in his shoes in that challenge that is exactly what i would do.

[Julia]

Jesus did that.

 

Ah, sorry. I should have looked it up.

 

Does that actually make it weirder?

[ratgirlagogo]

Yes, since it's kind of an awful story.  One that bothered me growing up as a Catholic (kind of like when Jesus cursed the fig tree for not having figs on it out of season). 

http://biblehub.com/parallelgospels/The_Gadarene_Demoniac.htm

 

Jesus transfers the demons from a man (or men) into a herd of swine and the poor pigs throw themselves off of a cliff into the sea.  What's vegan about this story???!!??

Edited December 11, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[Julia]

Yes, since it's kind of an awful story.  One that bothered me growing up as a Catholic (kind of like when Jesus cursed the fig tree for not having figs on it out of season). 

http://biblehub.com/parallelgospels/The_Gadarene_Demoniac.htm

 

Jesus transfers the demons from a man (or men) into a herd of swine and the poor pigs throw themselves off of a cliff into the sea.  What's vegan about this story???!!??

 

Nobody ate them? Because most vegans I know don't use the unclean rationale.

 

I got nothing. i wonder what their clientele thinks it means. I can't come up with anything that's not an insult.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Julia

[DHDancer]

On the rewatch going on now, I just choked on my G&T when Grayson said she followed the challenge "perimeters" HAHAHHAAHA.  And I think we've talked way too much about her already but why would you come back to a competition knowing that cooking corner Italian restaurant food is NOT going to get you far, sigh.

 

Sorry, just realized I posted this under the wrong episode .... should have been the Hollywood tasting epi...

Edited December 11, 2015 by DHDancer

[iggysaurus]

Grayson makes for good television. It almost makes you want to see what kind of tantrum/hissy fit she will have next.

 

Yeah, maybe if your definition of "good" television is drama and hissy fits, which mine isn't. This is the exact reason I mostly watch British cooking shows when I have the opportunity ... they don't define good television by having someone who throws tantrums.  I'm not British, but these antics don't appeal to me at all and I would LOVE if we could have more American shows that didn't rely on it.  I want to watch talented chefs competing on the basis of skills, and I don't tune in for "personalities."  (And if I did, it wouldn't be for personalities like Grayson's!)

 

Grayson not being into vegan food is fine but saying "God put animals on earth for a reason - so we could eat them" is beyond obnoxious. Even those who aren't vegan should be able to appreciate that animals are not simply here for our consumption. What an arrogant, entitled and vile attitude.

 

Man Bun is getting a lot of flak here and being called a "douchebag," but I don't particularly mind him. He does seem pretentious, but at least he has a good attitude and seems earnestly passionate about food.  And he hasn't been nasty or taken personal shots at anyone else.  I'll take that over sourpuss, combative, sulky Grayson any day. 

Edited December 12, 2015 by iggysaurus

[tobeannounced]

Found this on the whole Gadarine Swine thing, but it still doesn't make much sense to me.

[Julia]

Found this on the whole Gadarine Swine thing, but it still doesn't make much sense to me.

Um. So Wrong-way Lemming was taken?

[stillshimpy]

Vegan cooking is at least 10x harder than vegetarian, because there are so many more limitations. And they are limitations that take away a lot of the things you can do to complement vegetables.

 

Well, not in my experience, because I do both.  However, I do think that Vegan cooking takes practice.  You can make an insanely  delicious, lick-your-plate cream sauce using cashew cream.  You can make a very good cheez filling using Nutritional yeast (no brewer's yeast, good god Renee!) and soaked cashews...or any number of nuts.  Vegan cooking isn't 10x more difficult, but it does require focus and a non-traditional knowledge base.  People generally aren't good at it unless they've researched it.  

 

But I can't excuse anyone on the Vegan team for that, because they had someone there -- their ambassador person -- to ask and they just opted out because they thought it was just about vegetables vs. all the ways to utilize nut milks etc. etc. so that people don't even realize they're eating Vegan foods. 

 

I'm a pescetarian and I have to say, I never give anyone any guff about what they eat, which is why Grayson's incredibly immature, pouty and tantrum-throwing behavior requires the patience of a saint to forbear.   Fuck off, Grayson.  Eat what you like, cook what you like in your own setting, but don't blame your creative limitations and failure to ask questions of a knowledgable chef on anyone but yourself.  

 

It's probably best that Renee went, she was outclassed all over the place, but her enthusiastic attitude in contrast to Grayson's adolescent, spoiled brat, inability to deal with the absence of wax beans, was much appreciated.  

 

I hope Grayson is gone soon, but it kind of can't be soon enough.  I really liked her after Top Chef Texas, but boy, she threw that away with both hands and her complaining mouth.  Begone, Surly Girl, begone. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Funzlerks]

I'm about to go on a chickpea rant. You can tell a huge difference between properly prepared fresh or dried chickpeas and beans that have been sitting in goop in a metal can for a year or more. I eat a lot of dried and canned beans and chickpeas, to me, are the bean that is way better not-canned. I know she didn't have time to use dried, probably, but her dish was like what a college senior makes in her second week of vegetarianism. I felt like Chana masala was the opposite of innovative. It is just a notch up from Grayson's Jersey meatballs. Maybe I ate at too many co-ops in my youth.

Why not pickled vegetables? They pickle everything on other challenges. Corn chowders? Roasted vegetables with some roasted meyer lemons and a chimichurri? Tomato tarts? Gazpachos? I feel like the judges would be impressed with some nice vegetables prepared pretty similarly to standard restaurant fare. They would probably be wowed with cashew cream or some other vegan 102 "innovations." And nuts are vegan and taste super good to everyone. Put nuts on everything, and it will taste great.

Nutritional yeast is not quite the same as brewer's yeast, but "nooch" is best in tiny amounts. It is amazing in salad dressings and marinaras. Using nutritional yeast was commendable, ultra vegan. Aquafaba is very vegan trendy, it is the liquid from canned chickpeas! And is used to replace eggs in vegan baking. I tolerate canned chickpeas if I rinse the bejeebus out of them, so I have not ventured down the aquafaba path.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Funzlerks

[Julia]

Is nutitional yeast vegan, tho? I would think that if honey is an issue, actual microorganisms would be a problem.

[stillshimpy]

That's not quite how that works, Julia.  Nutritional yeast is considered Vegan.   It's not an animal byproduct, it's a byproduct of Molasses.  Here's a link on what it is.   Honey isn't considered Vegan  because it's a byproduct of bees, but yeasts aren't a byproduct of any sentient creature.   It's got a truly unfortunate name, but it's actually really delicious...unlike Brewer's Yeast which is not a particularly palatable thing.  If she didn't want to use nutritional yeast, using miso would have yielded a similar flavor.  

 

 

 

Using nutritional yeast was commendable, ultra vegan.

 

It would have been, except she used Brewer's Yeast according to Tom's comments and that stuff is, well...it just tastes like a very yeasty beer.  

 

You can actually make a really good "cheez" sauce out of nutritional yeast though and I have (not Vegan, I just tend to skew more and more towards a lot of plant-based foods ...although I'm a Pescatarian) ...so I personally find it really good in larger amounts.  

Edited December 26, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Julia]

I guess I think it would be next to impossible to keep food pollinated by commercially-hived bees out of a vegan diet, so I don't know how realistic I find the honey thing, but everyone has a place they draw the line.

Is sentience a thing? Would krill oil be OK? Not being snotty, at least on purpose. I don't really know more than the outlines of how this works.

[stillshimpy]

I guess I think it would be next to impossible to keep food pollinated by commercially-hived bees out of a vegan diet, so I don't know how realistic I find the honey thing, but everyone has a place they draw the line.

 

Again, not really how that works.  It's a byproduct, not a result of activity.  So dairy is a byproduct of cows, but if food is fertilized by cow manure, it's still vegan.  The whole thing with not eating honey really has more to do with commercially hived bees inhibiting pollenating.  

 

Krill oil contains oil from crustaceans so a pescatarian (like me) would consider those fair game.  So Vegans won't touch that, but I've met people who are Vegans and will eat seaweed ...and others who will not.  There is room for some individual interpretation because it's not like licenses are issued on these things, you know? 

 

Being Vegan is a particular thing and carries with is a lot of beliefs and practices, some more strictly adhering than others, for instance I have met Vegans who won't drive in cars because the rubber used for tires has a close relationship to cows (there's a byproduct derivative in the rubber)....but most of the "Vegans" I know aren't that committed to it all.  

 

Plus, there's now a whole subset of Veganism that is best referred to as Plant-based ...where it's not about any kind of environmental or belief statement...it's health and wellness related.  A man I know who is in his mid sixties "went Vegan" after open heart surgery but he's really just adopted a plant-based diet (meaning, when out in the world, he won't strictly adhere to anything). 

 

Some people adopt more plant-based meals because of factory farming, but don't worry about hived bees.  Some of it is all environmentally based, some of it is about animal welfare.  It's this hugely diverse thing and so you're going to meet someone who says they're Vegan....but likely doesn't have any qualms about Krill oil.   It's not like it is regulated and honestly, even people undertaking a plant-based diet might not know all the specifics.  Hardcore Vegans are a) sort of difficult to take (generally speaking) because they can be just miserably preachy b) something of a rarity anyway because hardcore Vegans don't even wear the same type of shoes as a lot of people c) both A and B are pretty much invalid because there will always be people who are just really chill about what they are doing vs. what everyone else is doing. 

 

So unless you're encountering a full Metal Vegan who you likely won't want to hang around: best to ask them whether they are plant-based or Vegan, because Vegan encompasses a lot more than plant-based does.   

 

I'll stop prattling on here, but I'll eat honey (again, I am not a Vegan by any stretch of the imagination) and normally I'd just say that Google contains much wisdom.  However, I'd never encourage anyone to run Google searches with the word Vegan in them because a lot of the results will be of the militant belief type.  So if you're interested, just run searches about what is plant-based and there will be answers out there that aren't dogmatic.  

Edited December 27, 2015 by stillshimpy

[attica]

yeasts aren't a byproduct of any sentient creature.

 

.B-b-but aren't they actually belching and farting sock puppets? Don't tell me Alton would lie to us!

 

:)

[stillshimpy]

B-b-but aren't they actually belching and farting sock puppets? Don't tell me Alton would lie to us!

 

Yup, apparently every thing and all things are just methane bombs, trying to take out the world.  You and me both:  our digestive systems are just super villains, bent on world destruction.....Mwhahaahahah.....bwahahahaha....feel my Ozone Depleting Power and weep, oh citizen of Earth! 

Edited December 27, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Julia]

Again, not really how that works.  It's a byproduct, not a result of activity.  So dairy is a byproduct of cows, but if food is fertilized by cow manure, it's still vegan.  The whole thing with not eating honey really has more to do with commercially hived bees inhibiting pollenating. 

 

Well, my question was more along the lines of if you boycott clothes made in sweatshops, is it OK to have the companies who profit from them in your 401k? The profits may just be a byproduct, but the workers are equally violated (and that's by far the most common rationale I can find for the honey boycott). But as you say, it's hardly fair to hold an entire group to the most extreme positions people in them hold.

[stillshimpy]

Well, my question was more along the lines of if you boycott clothes made in sweatshops, is it OK to have the companies who profit from them in your 401k? The profits may just be a byproduct, but the workers are equally violated (and that's by far the most common rationale I can find for the honey boycott). But as you say, it's hardly fair to hold an entire group to the most extreme positions people in them hold.

 

It's a fair point.  Veganism is a stance of privilege and it's really difficult to argue otherwise.  No one who has ever had to worry about where their next meal is coming from can afford to be that fussed about the source of their food.  No one who struggles to find clean drinking water, or shelter, or clothing, wrings their hands over fair trade practices.  Only the people privileged enough with abundance get to take these stands and it is a mark of stature within the world. 

 

Unless one grows and harvests absolutely everything then quite simply we all contribute to suffering for someone or something.  The usual example I use is a pint of strawberries and what goes into it:  How many resources are concentrated on it.  I live in Missouri at present (soon to relocate to California) and the only strawberries I can find are going to be products of Mexico where the lives of pickers would probably make my actual hair fall out in complete horror for the conditions they live in.  

 

So basically no matter what a person does, unless they can go Full Metal Commune Hippie (and still, even then) we are just shunting the misery around to someone else or something else.  But we all make those bargains and we all have a threshold for what we can live with in terms of "I'm okay with this" . 

 

But we've also all met that Vegan, Vegetarian, Whateverarian who isn't really in it to limit misery, but rather to be able to scold other people with the "Shape up and be more like me" of it all....and those people?  Fun to tell them the Untold Misery of whatever it is they ARE allowing into their lives, because none of us stand up to a metric fuckton of scrutiny on that, you know?  

 

We just all make our bargains.  

 

But that's not something the episode chose to go anywhere near and instead it became about the inconvenience to the chefs.   It would be great to see a chef just thinking "Wooo hoooo, if I can make this food delicious, then I really have the goods! Bring it!"  Instead we have whiney Grayson pouting her way through not being able to have meat. 

 

I would love for the show to do a no-meat episode in which someone doesn't feel the need to pitch a childish fit.  

Edited January 1, 2016 by stillshimpy

[RCharter]

^^If chickens didn't want to be eaten, they shouldn't be so delicious!  JK, JK Vegans/Vegetarians!

[carrps]

 AND they were at Whole Foods, they could have gotten vegan cheese to go with an enchilada dish. 

O.k. I saved this to comment on before I read all stillshimpy's comments about the yeast cheese, but I have not to date had any vegan cheese (or veggie burgers, either) that was worth eating. I actually bought some years ago that I pitched in the trash, because it was so vile. I think it was soy-based. I wouldn't even feed it to my dogs -- and they'll eat anything.

 

So, if circumstances were such that I had to be a vegan, I'd rather just cut cheese and burgers completely out of my diet rather than eat the substitutes out there. Barf.

[Julia]

O.k. I saved this to comment on before I read all stillshimpy's comments about the yeast cheese, but I have not to date had any vegan cheese (or veggie burgers, either) that was worth eating. I actually bought some years ago that I pitched in the trash, because it was so vile. I think it was soy-based. I wouldn't even feed it to my dogs -- and they'll eat anything.

 

It's not melty cheese, of course, but I've actually tried a recipe I saw online for almond milk ricotta, and it was pretty good. I think it would have made a great filling for, say, a roasted vegetable napoleon.

 

The weird part is that I went looking for that recipe after I read a review raving about how good the almond milk ricotta was at one of Phillip's restaurants. Which, I increasingly think, people with way stronger skills are actually the chefs for. Phillip's skill seems to be more in the publicity and funding area (which in the light of the most recent episode could mean "asking mom and dad").

Edited January 29, 2016 by Julia