All Episodes Talk: Celebrating Diversity

[Bastet]

I think I'm caught up, and this is the new episode:

The “when she comes back home” language really puts a period on the language in the previous episode indicating this Rachel/Megan roommate situation is temporary, and I respect the show being more open about that than when Steven and Sean’s similar short-term experiment was presented as a real, ongoing thing, but I’m still a bit irked, I think just from the overall feel of this show.

How the street harassment all women face is exacerbated for women with a disability was a good theme to explore.  And Rachel was impressive in the self-defense class; even typical women and even in the artificial environment of such a class can feel meek, especially with previous negative experience, and that is absolutely nothing against them, just a nod to Rachel embracing the learning experience so quickly.

But WTF with the “Public transport is scary, so my dad suggested Uber”  storyline?  Yeah, because that’s less likely to put a female passenger, let alone one with a disability, in danger.  Not.

Kris being pleased that Megan and Rachel can problem solve together – and it inspired a couple of different emotions in me that Rachel kept jumping in to help Megan place the delivery order – was nice, along with the moms forcing themselves to chill on the couch.  To have a thirty-something child for whom ordering food is an ordeal to get through and applaud is something most of us – me most certainly included, as I’d never have a child, period and would be utterly at sea if somehow despite my efforts been tasked with a DS child – can only partially understand.

“You better eat before you come” and “we have chips and salsa” about the ravioli was funny.

Didn’t someone, if not getting licensed, practice driving in an earlier season, and wasn’t that most likely Steven given his mosaic version of DS?  I may be pulling this out of my ass, but I feel like driving has come up before with someone driving around a parking lot with cones.

Holy balls, Kris saying with utter sarcasm, “Imagine my pride when Megan does best with the pole-dancing parade” is one of my favorite moments.

[kathyk24]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Another re-run, but new to me, I think the episode prior to the most recent one:

Oh crap, Rocco is back.  But, then, okay, good.  It has always been a thing where, in theory, I like the inclusion of a family dealing with the education and similar rights issues the parents of adult children with DS navigated long before we the audience came along, but these folks just bug.  But tonight I liked what his mom relating of their experiences added to the show.  And I loved Laurie, talking about the need to correct the behavior of a kid with DS rather than just excusing it.  It was also interesting to hear her and Kris talk about how a kid with DS ever living in anything other than the family home or an institution wasn’t a realistic thought in their day.  I also - since I hate the "Don't Limit Me" crap (we're all limited, by various factors) - liked Kris's take on encouraging a "version of success" when a kid expresses an unrealistic goal.  If only she practiced what she preaches.

Typical – Rachel wants to have a “girl’s night,” and Megan wants to include guys.  But I do agree if this was real, their first house-warming would better be open to everyone, and then have the women over next time.

Who the hell are the two idiots who bought the Sean blanket or whatever that monstrosity was?  And here we go again with Sean’s parents – who are the biggest part of his problem – treating something obnoxious, and sexist, as cute; “Burrito, Beans, Babes.”  Bugger off.  And, of course, all his "what I want in a girlfriend" requirements are all about him.

Kris comes up in Megan’s phone as Diva Mom Drama Queen and Laurie comes up in Rachel’s as Laurie.  Heh.  But is it any wonder Kris is frightened?  If she had a typical child to whom she couldn’t talk sense and acted this way, would it be received the same as her reaction to an overgrown toddler of an adult doing the same things?  Unlike the other parents on this show, Kris had Megan young and raised her alone.  That’s not an all-out pass, but I do cut her some slack as a result.

“Who’s paying for all this [wedding]?”  The show.

I've always felt sympathy for Kris raising Megan by herself. It's obvious that Megan's dad isn't involved in her life you don't hear Megan saying things like Dad called he wants me to spend the weekend with him. I wonder if Rachel has trouble with fine motor skills which is why she has difficulty making the bead. I have cerebral palsy and have difficulty doing housework.

[Eureka]

11 hours ago, Zanne said:

I don't like the name of Sean's business. I mentioned that on Twitter and was sent an article explaining how it got its name. It wasn't like it was particle physics - I figured out the connection when they first mentioned it last season, so that didn't win me over. I'm not altogether fond of the name Megology either, so I thought maybe I just disliked name themed businesses. Then I admitted to myself that I don't much like Sean or Megan so that might be why I find their business names irritating. House of Rachel or Elenagance probably wouldn't bother me so much. Yes, I am a horrible person apparently.  

I loved that they went to self-defense! I think they need to add that to PE requirements because it's more useful than skipping. It would be great in middle school and high school. Rachel is really blossoming living more independently.

Sean's t shirt business didn't exist before Megology and the show, did it? How many t shirt pop ups does Southern California actually need? I find his storylines boring and sad. I know his mom is big in the disability community (for lack of the correct term, please don't flame me but let me know what I should call it), but does she really think him selling t shirts is going to support him later? He seems unable to comprehend things the others do (I forget the word he asked his girlfriend what it meant) and I wonder if he could live on his own without getting himself into some real trouble.

 

I loved Rachel and her parents in this episode. Ok, in most episodes. She and her mom had such a good time with the ravioli and her joke to her dad to eat before he came over cracked me up. She really is such a nurturing person (I get such an "older sister" vibe) with Megan that I hope Megan doesn't take advantage of it. Interesting the "incident" they spoke of, that she was at college...do we know what kind of program she did? And I am glad she knew back then to call her mom!

 

The driving...I feel like neither Steven nor John have the attention span for it. Steven is all about movies all the time and seems to realize that driving in a real street would require more attention. John just seems to not have attention for much of anything, I notice him looking all over listlessly in many scenes. But for him, it's hard to tell if it's more of a vision thing. His glasses look so thick.

 

I am still trying to get into the Rocco storylines. I think maybe that should be another whole show, with more parents of small kids. It just seems so incongruous with all of the adults. And yes, cut the hair please!!

Edited August 30, 2018 by Eureka
More to say.

[Brooklynista]

Even with a camera crew in tow, I was wringing my hands with Rachel's mother over the Uber ride. I am so weirdly proud of that spunky chick and loudly cheer whenever she wins.  I'd stand in the kitchen all day and make 4 ravioli with her. Her temperament is so easy going and relaxing.  She really doesn't sweat the small stuff.  

Doubtful that Steven will ever get his license.  I could see him in a golf cart around the cul de sac, but not on any open road. John?? I want him to have these victories, but not this one.

[Kazzy25]

I just can’t with Rocco and his parents. I don’t know why, but his parents just bug me. Rocco’s very cute, but I agree with @Eureka that there should be a show with just DS kids. I fast forward through all their segments.

[curlytoes79]

I think Steven might get his license, if he really wants it - after lots and lots and lots of training and practice. Not sure about John...his vision seems really poor. But Steven is more aware of his limitations, while John has bought into the "I'm gonna do it and nobody will stop me" thing that's common among the lower-functioning folks like Sean and Megan. As Kris said, there's a version of success for a lot of things - but I don't know what John's version of success would be here other than learning to call Uber.

[Cherrio]

13 minutes ago, curlytoes79 said:

I think Steven might get his license, if he really wants it -

Just my opinion, but I do not think either Steven or John should be able to drive.   John had a much better comprehension of the driving manual and answered correctly. Steven as another poster pointed out is firmly stuck living his life thru the movies he watches.  If he did, he would be driving 15 mph at all times or over 65 as he answered when asked. 

I wish John could eventually drive because he has a positive spirit, desires to learn and accomplish things, but sadly I don't see it. I hope his family can cushion the blow.  Honestly, they probably should not have encouraged it at all.

I wondered why no one ever mentioned taking a bus?    I think John would be fine on the bus, Steven not so much. He seems babied and spoiled and not held accountable for things he has done.

His parents could of learned something from Rachel's mom.

[SunnyBeBe]

I haven't been following this show, but, caught some last night and really enjoyed it.  I was even shedding some tears.  This is a very touching real drama.  I wish more people would check it out.  It puts perspective into these fake, selfish, fame thirsty realty stars who don't have a fraction of the heart that these families have.  All the money in the world can't buy the kind of values the people in this drama demonstrate.  It was a pure blessing to me to watch. 

I do have a question.  I was distracted for parts of the show and at one point there was a woman telling a man that she heard a soon to be bride say that she was not ready to get married and that she still wanted to date other people. The man, presumably the groom's dad, seemed surprised.  I can't recall who was in that conversation and who were they talking about? 

[Kazzy25]

Elena on her Facebook page said that next week is the finale (I’m assuming season finale). Already?! It feels like this season flew by but it also didn’t help we were getting 2 episodes a week. Weren’t there more episodes in previous seasons?

[Kazzy25]

14 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I haven't been following this show, but, caught some last night and really enjoyed it.  I was even shedding some tears.  This is a very touching real drama.  I wish more people would check it out.  It puts perspective into these fake, selfish, fame thirsty realty stars who don't have a fraction of the heart that these families have.  All the money in the world can't buy the kind of values the people in this drama demonstrate.  It was a pure blessing to me to watch. 

I do have a question.  I was distracted for parts of the show and at one point there was a woman telling a man that she heard a soon to be bride say that she was not ready to get married and that she still wanted to date other people. The man, presumably the groom's dad, seemed surprised.  I can't recall who was in that conversation and who were they talking about? 

That was Angel’s (the groom) grandmother telling Christina’s (the bride) dad, Mariano. I can’t remember the specifics but I think Christina and Angel were riding with his grandparents and Christina had said that she wanted to date other people.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Kazzy25 said:

That was Angel’s (the groom) grandmother telling Christina’s (the bride) dad, Mariano. I can’t remember the specifics but I think Christina and Angel were riding with his grandparents and Christina had said that she wanted to date other people.

Yes, Angel's grandma told Mariano she had concerns because Cristina said this was all moving too fast and maybe she wanted to date other people.  When Mariano asked Cristina about it, she said she meant maybe she and Angel should keep dating, not that she wanted to date other people.  I guess it got chalked up to cold feet, because her hesitation about getting married right now was dropped like a hot potato.

2 hours ago, Kazzy25 said:

Elena on her Facebook page said that next week is the finale (I’m assuming season finale). 

Yes, it kept getting promoted during the commercial breaks - the wedding is the big finale for the season, and it airs next week.

[curlytoes79]

3 hours ago, Kazzy25 said:

Elena on her Facebook page said that next week is the finale (I’m assuming season finale). Already?! It feels like this season flew by but it also didn’t help we were getting 2 episodes a week. Weren’t there more episodes in previous seasons?

Yeah, I've heard that, too - just 8 episodes this season, I think. Last season was 10 episodes. I wonder why they showed 2 episodes at a time instead of drawing it out more. 

[booboopbedoo]

17 hours ago, Bastet said:

Typical – Rachel wants to have a “girl’s night,” and Megan wants to include guys.

I have a problem with - 1- the way she dances

2-the remarks about firemen and men in general

She is acting like a cat in heat

[auntjess]

12 hours ago, Eureka said:

Sean's t shirt business didn't exist before Megology and the show, did it? How many t shirt pop ups does Southern California actually need?

This must be just for the show, because I don't see how Sean's mother can see this as a viable route to provide for him, long term.  And I don't see Megology doing that either.
On the driving, I remember Steven learning to ride a bike, so he should have gotten a bit of rules of the road, in that.
A simulator might be a better way to actually start them off, rather than in traffic, although it might not be good TV.
John's peripheral vision, at least on one side, seemed really bad.  Hope he can get new glasses to help.
 

Edited August 31, 2018 by auntjess

[Zanne]

19 hours ago, camom said:

Sean's business obviously isn't really his business, but his mother's.  Supporting your kids is one thing, doing all the work is another.  Yes, he was working the crowd at the pop up shop, but I doubt he could make a sale on his own.

That's something that bothers me, as well. It's great for both Sean and Meghan to try to find something to supplement their incomes, but living entirely off what they make with tie-dye and t-shirts doesn't seem likely. They have SSI(?) income, undoubtedly, but it can't be enough to pay long-term for the nice place that Rachel and Meghan were sharing if they wanted to live somewhere comparable. Meghan and Sean don't run their businesses and the parents keep telling them they'll be doing all of this on their own soon; it feels dishonest. What they need to be talking about is finding a trustworthy business manager if the parents aren't going to be doing the job of actually running the companies. They need someone to handle the stock and the finances. Yes, Meghan and Sean can help make decisions and share design ideas, but someone with a little business acumen would help the businesses last and get connections that could help with longevity. Meghan got extremely lucky that Sanrio was looking for some good PR. How long that relationship continues is still up in the air, but it is a lucky break that would not have happened without the move to CA and the show. From what I recall, Sean's t-shirt business did start after the show began and probably after Megology got a bump from the publicity, though the shirts seem very show specific and interest will drop once the show ends for good. I started to watch Born This Way because it was supposed to show me the reality of the lives of young adults with Down Syndrome, but it doesn't appear to be showing us the reality of [some of] their lives, but the reality the parents want to represent.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy this show - maybe not so much the Meghan and Sean parts, but the rest of the cast is great and their stories seem a bit more realistic. They're dealing with the struggles of living without the daily help of parents, figuring out transportation, taking care of themselves, and working. We've seen amazing growth in most of the cast, with Elena and Rachel being the real standouts. My favorite part in the last episode was when Rachel's father said something along the lines of, "It's faster and easier if we do it, but [Rachel] can do it and we need to let [her]." That is a message that spoke to me. I've mentioned before I had a parent in my classroom that did not allow her daughter to do anything to care for herself - pretty much everything you can think of that allows someone to be even a moderately independent person. I wished Rachel's parents could have talked to her and given her this great advice.  

[Robertmc]

Shocked that Kris took such a hard stance with Megan in episode 7.    I liked it.    I feel bad that Megan will never be anything in life, but in her head she’ll always be a real diva  

[nokat]

20 hours ago, camom said:

The differences between Rachel and Megan really showed up tonight.  Rachel getting herself ready, very methodically, and going to work.  Megan ignoring her mom's calls, watching TV, going back to bed and acting like such a diva.  Then Megan talking Rachel out of the girls party she wanted.  Why couldn't they have two parties?  I did love that Rachel didn't want the boys because they bring the drama.  LOL  Liked that Rachel had her dad over for dinner.  Interesting that he talked about when she moves back home, confirming that this living arrangement is temporary.  I was also impressed that she spent so much time working on the ravioli and stayed calm; no breakdown.  I doubt most of the others could have done that without a meltdown or giving up.  I can see Rachel improving her independent living skills and moving out on her own (with support).  She has the desire and the ability.  Good for her parents to allow her to grow.  I don't think Megan will ever really be as independent as Rachel.

Sean's business obviously isn't really his business, but his mother's.  Supporting your kids is one thing, doing all the work is another.  Yes, he was working the crowd at the pop up shop, but I doubt he could make a sale on his own.  And I'm pretty sure that if the show ended tomorrow, girlfriend Caley would be outta there.

Amy, people aren't looking at Rocco because of Down syndrome.  They're just trying to figure out if he's a girl or a boy.  I was pretty impressed with his reading, though.

It looked like they all enjoyed family game night.  It's fun to see everyone laughing and having a good time.  So many things about having a child with a disability are serious, it's nice to be able to forget all that for a while.

The self defense class was a good idea.   People with disabilities are abused (sexually and otherwise) much more than the general population.  People with Down syndrome also tend to be very trusting.

John's sister Christina said it best -- the theory of driving is very different than actually driving, which Steven seems to comprehend.  I think Steven and John might both be able to pass the written test, but actually driving is altogether different.  Steven has a better chance than John, IMHO.

I saw the differences too. Rachel may have struggled a bit with her hair (and that's on her mom) but she had a schedule, and Megan was all about being away from her mom, and I think that bit we saw about her not answering the phone was her version of being independent. Laying in bed and ignoring your phone is not independent. I admit to being a bit nervous with Rachel using a gas stove.  I could see Megan trying to start the stove, thinking she's failing, and then lighting one of her candles when the house is full of gas.

Family game night looked like so much fun.

 

Self defense is important for everyone, but especially for the vulnerable. Part of me says the guy who offered Rachel lunch just wanted to be kind, but you never know, and the disabled should especially trust no one.

 

I think if there was a version of Steven and John who drove, that would work. John knows the rules, but can't see, and Steven can drive, but doesn't know the rules and is scared. If Steven only drove on quiet country lanes, maybe, but in LA, no way.
 

[auntjess]

2 minutes ago, nokat said:

I admit to being a bit nervous with Rachel using a gas stove.  I could see Megan trying to start the stove, thinking she's failing, and then lighting one of her candles when the house is full of gas.

I was worrying about what was near the flames, that could go up.  Megan's candles are battery operated, I believe.

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, nokat said:

I could see Megan trying to start the stove, thinking she's failing, and then lighting one of her candles when the house is full of gas.

The candles are flameless; they are "lit" via battery, not flame.  When going over the pre-bed checklist, one of the parents included making sure any candles are blown out, and another pointed out they're not real candles, precisely to avoid that danger.

[nokat]

Gas doesn't need a flame, just a spark. That is just the fire safety person in me. But I was so happy to see Rachel being so close to being independent. Her with the fire safety men, and then the self defense. She's so determined. While Megan was thinking how hot the firemen were, I think Rachel actually learned something.
 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

I really enjoy these episodes where we see the cast try to do different "adulting" things, and what their individual struggles and skills are. That said, I cannot recall a time in my avid, lifelong television-viewing career more painfully awkward than Megan and Rachel ordering Chinese food over the phone. Good Lord, that was excruciating. I had to fast-forward after the fourth "My name is Megan and I'm here to order dinner." Her unique blend of self-satisfaction and incompetence is sociologically fascinating, but I can't handle it in real time.

Totally agree that Rocco needs a haircut and his own show that I will never watch. Last season, he just had that "parents can't bring themselves to cut the bebe's hair" look, but now it's straight up "give him a girlish bob and don't hold back on the girlish!" Sorry, Woke 21st Century, but nah. That boy has girl hair.

John's vision worries me. According to Dr. Google, eye disease can occur with DS. He said he hadn't been to the eye doctor in years, so I hope that changed right away. Forget driving and maybe even walking if he ends up with tunnel vision or cataracts.

Rachel's dad is really cool. I just like him as a dude. He would make a good neighbor or colleague. 

[nokat]

I would want both Rachel's Mom and Dad as neighbors.  And Rachel for a cup of tea every week, because she is so sweet. I think we see just a little tiny bit of the struggle and I wish we would see more of the reality rather than the producer driven stories.
 

[Robertmc]

I believe the ratings are worse this year than last year, and last year it took a while to get renewed.   Hopefully it gets renewed. 

 

 

 

Also wouldn’t be surprised if they changed the show up and it primarily focused on angel and Christina and how  two people with Down syndrome live as a married couple. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I was really impressed with all the young people featured and Megan seemed fine to me, though, I haven't watched previous shows this season. We have a special needs child in my family, so, I was quite inspired with their abilities and accomplishments. I just hope that my niece will be able to do as well as these young people are doing one day. She doesn't have Down's but, is intellectually delayed. 

[auntjess]

2 hours ago, Robertmc said:

Also wouldn’t be surprised if they changed the show up and it primarily focused on angel and Christina and how  two people with Down syndrome live as a married couple. 

I wouldn't want it to be all about them.  It truly works better when we see what all of them are doing.

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Megan seemed fine to me, though, I haven't watched previous shows this season.

Megan was taught to make speeches, and can talk way above the level where she can perform.  We found out last season that she can't make change, and I'm not sure how well she can count.
She wasn't able to shop for food at one point, or cook, and I don't know if she's learned how to do laundry.
She's a drama queen, and made a big play for Steven, who really didn't know how to handle her, and then she played the jilted woman.

[Dominii]

Quote

(Megan) Laying in bed and ignoring your phone is not independent.

I beg to differ! Sometimes I'll ignore my phone for quite a long time before responding. It does give you a measure of independence because it releases you from the invisible tether of your grasping family, friends and the rest of the world.

I've noticed this throughout this forum -- commenters are really hard on Megan and her mother. Kris is a bit controlling, but she has raised her disabled daughter on her own for many years and has done a pretty good job. I can't begrudge her an occasional bit of blindness and over protectiveness where Megan is concerned.

And, yes, Megan can be annoying and narcissistic (they all are), but at times she can be very cute and endearing. She has a fun giggle and a good sense of humor. Also, she can sometimes be surprisingly snarky and sophisticated in her repartee with those of average intelligence. She held her own during the Real Housewives review, and that can't have been easy for her.

Sure, Megan expresses interest in the opposite sex. She is a grown woman, after all. Kris will undoubtedly continue working with her concerning appropriate behavior in this arena for many years to come.    

[CousinOliver]

I'm not a fan of Rocco's parents at all.  The scene where they were holding up traffic while working on stairs showed me who they are.  Work on stairs anywhere else.  The library, an apartment complex, how about anywhere that's not inconveniencing others? If it's bus specific, work on it at school.  

Maybe she's so into advocating for him that she's forgotten that other people matter, too? Or maybe she just doesn't understand basic courtesy? 

I'm liking Meg/Kris more than seasons past, although they're at the bottom of my list, beating out only Rocco and co., of people I'd like given less screen time.  

Edited August 31, 2018 by CousinOliver

[ClareWalks]

Sean's mom makes Kris look like the greatest mother ever, at any rate. Sean's mom actively encourages Sean's terrible personality.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, CousinOliver said:

Maybe she's so into advocating for him that she's forgotten that other people matter, too?

At his age, they're still pretty new to this, and haven't yet figured out where to draw the line on being an advocate for their child (because our society, laws, and policies/regulations have a very long way to go still, despite the improvement between the rest of the cast's generation and Rocco's),  understanding that there are some things it's simply unreasonable and unfair to expect to be altered in order to accommodate him.  I'm not entirely sure their line isn't drawn so far out there that arguing the Earth should stop spinning on its axis if that's what was needed to accommodate Rocco's special needs isn't just about the only thing across it. 

And I don't know how much it's going to change with time and experience; they seem the "oh, everything my child does is cute and damn anyone who doesn't agree" type in general.  You know, the kind who sit in a cafe garden sipping lattes while their kids run around making nuisances of themselves, and think the other patrons who are irritated at having their own leisurely weekend breakfast disturbed are just haters.

11 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Sean's mom makes Kris look like the greatest mother ever, at any rate. Sean's mom actively encourages Sean's terrible personality.

I don't think Kris needs anyone to make her look like a good mom (she's made and continues to make some obvious mistakes, but on the general scale of parenting, she is easily a good mom), but boy howdy, yes -- stack her up against Sean's parents, and she looks like a superstar.  Kris enables Megan to be less independent than she could be, while Sean's parents enable him to be a sexist jackass.

[camom]

I agree with the poster who said that Rocco's parents should have taken him off the bus and given him other opportunities to practice going down stairs.  Give him one try, then get him off and stop holding everyone up.  He'll do it eventually.  I know plenty of parents who think the entire world should change to accommodate their kids (Sean and Rocco's parents are good examples).  Then there are those who do everything they can to help their kids live in the real world (Rachel, Elena).  A certain amount of understanding and accommodation is reasonable, but expecting everyone and everything to revolve around your child is ridiculous.  I've been around parents who do not discipline their children at all, and when they act up, hit and kick, are just generally rude, etc. the parents say, "Well, he has Down syndrome, he doesn't know any better."  Sorry, parents, it's your job to teach them.  

[princelina]

On 8/30/2018 at 7:19 PM, auntjess said:

This must be just for the show, because I don't see how Sean's mother can see this as a viable route to provide for him, long term.  And I don't see Megology doing that either.

 

But I think she does!  From what we have seen over the years, Megan and Sean were "included" the most in school, and ended up the lowest functioning of the group.  Now while the rest of the group heads off to their jobs each day, Megan and Sean are CEO's of "their businesses" while their parents do most of the work, and seem to think that they are providing for their futures.  Kris has some hustle going on with Megology, but if something happened to her Megan would be lost.  Sean's business will be over once the show is.  And they will continue to be the least independent of the group.

Also, Kris' advice to not harsh their dreams - they DO need to be tempered with reality.  I taught a careers class to special needs students when I was student teaching and one boy insisted that after graduation he was going to be a fireman.  So I asked him how he worked toward that - firemen need to be fit, for instance - could he run?  Lift weights?  He acted like I was asking him to eat a bug.  I don't know what became of him but I know he was never a fireman :)

Edited August 31, 2018 by princelina

[camom]

Quote

Megan and Sean were "included" the most in school, and ended up the lowest functioning of the group.

You're absolutely right.  A lot of parents put more emphasis on being fully included in a regular classroom than they do on the actual education their kids are receiving.  There is a happy medium (part of the day in a regular classroom and part getting extra help), but unfortunately parents are being convinced that they are doing their children a disservice if they don't insist on full inclusion.

[kira28]

My ex had a daughter with intellectual disabilities. He sent her to a private school where she graduated with seven others in her class. At school she was a cheerleader, and played in every sport even though she was never able to hit a softball or return a volleyball serve. She read at a 2nd grade level so her iep called for her teachers to read tests for her. They also "helped" her by directing her to the correct answers. She took the ACT and scored a 38 in reading which is exceptional. Yet she honestly can only read at a 2nd grade level and doesn't understand alot of what she reads. If a friend texts its really late I can't come over tonight because my mom is asleep she would read it as her friend wants to stop by but she will be there later. She scored higher on the act than most honor roll students. It was because she was allowed to take the test unsupervised with her teacher reading the test to her and prompting her I suppose. She was on prom court and in national honor society even though there is no legit way she had the grade point average for it. 

The craziest thing was her family was all u can be anything follow ur dreams and she wants to be a chef and open her own restaurant in New York city. So her dad took out alot of loans he can't afford so she could attend a fancy culinary school. Now the girl didn't cook except to bake cookies where someone measured out the ingredients and read the recipe while she stirred the dough. She didn't even know which measuring spoon was a teaspoon VS tablespoon. She isnt able to add fractions or multiply a recipe. When she took the entrance math test for the school she couldn't finish it and got three out of 50 questions right. But the school wanted the tuition money and accepted her. Two months later she was bragging she has the highest grade in her math class. The college agreed to follow her iep so now that they r giving her work she can do and she's basically just stirring ingredients. It makes me sad because there are jobs she can actually handle. She's great with kids and coukd work as an assistant at a daycare. She worked at a hotel cleaning and did a good job. But neither her family nor her expensive school are preparing her for any kind of job cooking in or owning a restaurant but her family is so intent that she should follow her dream! Reminds me of Kris and Megan or Sean and his folks. U can encourage your child while also offering them realistic expectations and goals. Making them believe they are super special and accomplished and can do anything when they truly have limitations (even "typical"people have limitations.. I can't be a model or a professional sports player, I would make a terrible mathematician and I cant sing at all so I'll never have a career in music. At one time in my childhood I wanted to be a model etc but I don't have the height, look or talent for it. I think Kris and others mean well but they are hurting their kids in the long run. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by kira28

[kassa]

Who has glasses that thick and doesn't go to the eye doctor regularly? Maybe it's just his memory - his family seems on top of things. 

i am wrestling with whether it's ableism to think people with certain intellectual abilities can't handle driving. Given enough time I'm sure they could learn the handbook and the mechanics, but driving requires so many unexpected challenges that there's so much more to it than the rules of the road and mechanics. How would John react to a fender bender if he runs screaming from an unexpected goat appearance? How would they handle the unexpected detour with cops diverting you away from the direction you planned on going or that surprise night-time road work situation where there are miles of flashing lights and arrows and sand barrels and Jersey barriers reducing traffic to one lane that consists of straddling a lane divider?  Of course none of us were tested for those things either... but...

Edited September 1, 2018 by kassa

[nokat]

@dominii, you make very good points.

10 hours ago, Dominii said:

I beg to differ! Sometimes I'll ignore my phone for quite a long time before responding. It does give you a measure of independence because it releases you from the invisible tether of your grasping family, friends and the rest of the world.

I've noticed this throughout this forum -- commenters are really hard on Megan and her mother. Kris is a bit controlling, but she has raised her disabled daughter on her own for many years and has done a pretty good job. I can't begrudge her an occasional bit of blindness and over protectiveness where Megan is concerned.

And, yes, Megan can be annoying and narcissistic (they all are), but at times she can be very cute and endearing. She has a fun giggle and a good sense of humor. Also, she can sometimes be surprisingly snarky and sophisticated in her repartee with those of average intelligence. She held her own during the Real Housewives review, and that can't have been easy for her.

Sure, Megan expresses interest in the opposite sex. She is a grown woman, after all. Kris will undoubtedly continue working with her concerning appropriate behavior in this arena for many years to come.  

Dominii, you make some really good points. And Megan is so sweet with Rachel, making her laugh. I like to be phone silent at times too, but I think that was a too abrupt cut off for Kris's comfort.

 

[woodscommaelle]

"You still doing Weight Watchers?"

"I gained weight."

Lol! Me too, brother. 

[camom]

Quote

Who has glasses that thick and doesn't go to the eye doctor regularly? Maybe it's just his memory - his family seems on top of things. 

My money is on John not knowing when he last saw the eye doctor.  But I do wish they would find glasses that fit him better.  Frames are now made specifically for people with DS.  They tend to have no nose bridge and lower ears, so the frames address those issues.

[princelina]

16 hours ago, camom said:

You're absolutely right.  A lot of parents put more emphasis on being fully included in a regular classroom than they do on the actual education their kids are receiving.  There is a happy medium (part of the day in a regular classroom and part getting extra help), but unfortunately parents are being convinced that they are doing their children a disservice if they don't insist on full inclusion.

It is unfortunate, because I believe they are doing them a disservice by insisting on it.  Aside from academics, they reach a certain age when they are no longer able to be "peers" with kids their own age.  When Megan said about Rachel "I've never had a friend like you" - it's because in high school she was hanging out with the cheerleaders!  I'm glad she is involved with this group so she can make real friends who are her actual peers.

[camom]

Quote

 they reach a certain age when they are no longer able to be "peers" with kids their own age. 

So true.  Being in the same room is not the same as being included, especially if they have a 1-on-1 aide.  I notice in the photos of the wedding that Cristina's bridal party consisted of Rachel, Megan, and Elena.  Makes me wonder if she has other friends.  You'd think there might be some childhood friends, cousins, or someone.

[auntjess]

19 hours ago, kassa said:

i am wrestling with whether it's ableism to think people with certain intellectual abilities can't handle driving. Given enough time I'm sure they could learn the handbook and the mechanics, but driving requires so many unexpected challenges that there's so much more to it than the rules of the road and mechanics.

You raise good points.  I can see some not knowing how to react quickly, and others going into road rage.

[Robertmc]

I conversated with Sandra ( Sean’s Mom) today and so far she hasn’t heard anything about a series renewal. 

[woodscommaelle]

On 8/29/2018 at 10:04 PM, Bastet said:

Mariano being taken aback that Rachel is 35, Rachel’s dad saying, “Well, I’m, like 90,” and Mariano responding, “Yeah, but you look it, she doesn’t” was some hilarious ribbing.

I loved this little interaction. My dad would have referred to it as 'busting his chops.' Literally have never heard anyone but him use that term.  Like ever.

Gary? Is that his name? I adore him. And Laurie. What great parents Rachel got. And vice versa. Just a wonderful family all around.

[dreadfulLeigh]

On 9/1/2018 at 3:02 PM, camom said:

So true.  Being in the same room is not the same as being included, especially if they have a 1-on-1 aide.  I notice in the photos of the wedding that Cristina's bridal party consisted of Rachel, Megan, and Elena.  Makes me wonder if she has other friends.  You'd think there might be some childhood friends, cousins, or someone.

That’s had me puzzled, too. I thought I remembered reading that this was cast, in so much that they knew each other but weren’t quite as close as the show proposes. It’s her wedding. Hopefully not just reality tv fodder. Wouldn’t she have other friends and family in her wedding party??

[Bastet]

We know Megan only became part of the group upon filming the show (some of them may have met at national conventions, but she wasn't part of the local DS community because she lives in Colorado), but some of the locals already knew each other just through the Los Angeles DS community or specifically spent time together at that center where we see them congregate.  So was Cristina already friends with Rachel or Elena?  I have no recollection from season one who already had a relationship with who.

I'm not surprised to see the other women from the show as Cristina's bridesmaids, I just hope the reason only women from the show were her bridesmaids isn't because the show paying for all this means production dictated the wedding party or poor Cristina didn't have any close friends prior to doing the show.

[pigeon]

On 8/31/2018 at 9:45 AM, Dominii said:

I beg to differ! Sometimes I'll ignore my phone for quite a long time before responding. It does give you a measure of independence because it releases you from the invisible tether of your grasping family, friends and the rest of the world.

I've noticed this throughout this forum -- commenters are really hard on Megan and her mother. Kris is a bit controlling, but she has raised her disabled daughter on her own for many years and has done a pretty good job. I can't begrudge her an occasional bit of blindness and over protectiveness where Megan is concerned.

And, yes, Megan can be annoying and narcissistic (they all are), but at times she can be very cute and endearing. She has a fun giggle and a good sense of humor. Also, she can sometimes be surprisingly snarky and sophisticated in her repartee with those of average intelligence. She held her own during the Real Housewives review, and that can't have been easy for her.

Sure, Megan expresses interest in the opposite sex. She is a grown woman, after all. Kris will undoubtedly continue working with her concerning appropriate behavior in this arena for many years to come.    

I agree with this! Megan is a really interesting combination. On one hand, she has trouble with basic skills and doesn't seem to have a grasp of money, like when she and Kris were at the flea market last season selling shirts, yet on the other hand, she can be really funny-like when she quoted Nene's "cross your legs" comment from RH. She understands pop culture in a way that is actually beyond some of the others. And again, after her break up with Stephen when she wanted to look hot in order to make him jealous. Whatever you think about that, that's also a level of self awareness that the others seem to lack. 

Rachel is lovely sweet and responsible, yet also very immature in some matters. I get as a 20 something wanting to have guys over for a party and lay in bed and watch TV, just be lazy. But, I like Megan and Kris. I actually feel sorry for Kris in many ways and I think she did the best she could given the circumstance. But, then again, I love long hair on boys, so you all might just think I'm weird:) 

[Eureka]

13 hours ago, pigeon said:

I agree with this! Megan is a really interesting combination. On one hand, she has trouble with basic skills and doesn't seem to have a grasp of money, like when she and Kris were at the flea market last season selling shirts, yet on the other hand, she can be really funny-like when she quoted Nene's "cross your legs" comment from RH. She understands pop culture in a way that is actually beyond some of the others. 

I have been thinking the same thing. She jokes and is sarcastic at a level that most of the others don't/aren't. But listening to her place a takeout order was just painful. 

[curlytoes79]

8 minutes ago, Eureka said:

I have been thinking the same thing. She jokes and is sarcastic at a level that most of the others don't/aren't. But listening to her place a takeout order was just painful. 

Megan’s “social intelligence” is pretty good and she has charisma. She just needs to work on her daily living skills. I don’t think the moms needed to worry about the takeout call, though - those guys probably get calls from all kinds of people - drunk folks, old people who are half-deaf, people with stutters etc. Anyone who deals with the general public knows you gotta be patient.

[VioletNevermind]

I’m not sure when the onion processing factory opened up next door, but when Mariano lifted Cristina’s veil and kissed her on her forehead before leading her down the aisle . . . oh my. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by SuzyLee

[Eureka]

You guys, I cried through that whole thing. I love Cristina and Angel’s families.

Rachel is such a mom to all of them, it’s so sweet to watch.

I loved how Elena patted John’s dad’s shoulder when she greeted them.

Random thought, I wonder how tall Cristina and Angel are because everyone else in her family towers over them.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Eureka

[Bastet]

Jumping Jesus, enough with regarding getting married as the be all end all of a woman living a "normal" life.  And I wish they’d both walked her down the aisle; Cristina isn’t the kind of bride who’s going to walk herself down the aisle, but having both parents like Mariano suggested would have been appropriate.  Especially since they kept the "who gives this woman?" crap and answered it with "her mother and I do."  So make it a little less offensive, especially in these circumstances where the bride is an adult yet not in some ways, and also include both parents on the walk down the aisle.

Those awful curtain fabric bridesmaid dresses weren't any more attractive on film than in pictures, but I love that Rachel got to look nice in a different dress.

With those things out of the way*, this - from what I saw, which was only the second hour - was nice.  I’m glad Angel’s mom is in his life, even though she’s not the one who raised him.  It was nice to see her. 

And John’s reaction to seeing Cristina in her dress was sweet.

I love Elena running down the aisle in rehearsal, and her “don’t let me trip” deep breaths during the ceremony.  And Angel’s “I got this” pep talk to himself at the altar.

My favorite was Rachel's speech. 

Do we think John has any idea what catching the garter means, or that he just wanted to be the winner, heh?  Because he didn't say anything about wanting to be married, nor can I imagine that being something he wants.

They said their last names earlier, so it's not like this was altered for privacy -- when they were introduced for their first dance, it wasn't as Mr. and Mrs. [Angel's last name], but as Angel and Cristina.  If she didn't change her name, I'm impressed.  (They did sign the actual legal document, right, not just the church thing -- this is a legal marriage, in which changing her last name was an option?)

*Okay, one more thing -- is anyone surprised Rocco has been conditioned to bow and wait for applause after every fucking thing he does?  I'm surprised he didn't do it during the actual ceremony.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Bastet